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Trade Deadline Open Thread

The Major League Baseball Non-Waiver Trade Deadline (all rights reserved) is about seven hours away.

I’ll turn it over to all of you — what would you like to see the Phillies do today, if anything at all?

Spin a deal for a left-handed reliever? And who? Jump all in and go after Manny Ramirez? Make one last push for Matt Holliday? Grab another starter? Maybe something different?

Go nuts. Be the GM.

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0 Comments

  1. Josh

    July 31, 2008 at 9:14 am

    I’d like to see them get a left handed reliever and not give up too much. I just hope they make it through the day without emptying the farm, unless it’s for Roy Halladay. I’d give up the farm and my soul to get him.

  2. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:24 am

    thats what worries me too. you have to give up good prospects, but the phillies have a history of giving up their top prospects for the WRONG guy and not giving them up to get the right guy and fialing to get him. theyve patented that

  3. Rishard

    July 31, 2008 at 9:25 am

    I would welcome any acquisition to better the team right now.
    Throughout the past few years its been pitching… pitching… pitching…
    being stressed as our weakest link (that thing which has held us back)

    So, I’ll play along… I would love to see a quality STARTER acquired
    (aka Matt Holliday). If I am to believe what I hear on a daily basis via
    the Phillie telecasts, we (Philly) have the best bullpen going (stat-wise).
    So, the heck with relief help (Though Madsen could fly and that would help).

    Nice rotation?: Hammels, Holliday, Kendrick, Moyer, and Happ
    (Well, it’s either Happ or What’s-His’-Head… the new guy who’s not so phabulous)
    Pitching made the Braves a dynasty and I dont feel they had the bats
    we posses.

    Oh, and if they are crazy enough to try and go for Manny… I say Pat
    “The Bat” Burrel is off limits. And is it me or does it seem like every time
    they pull Pat from the game for a “defensive replacement” I end up
    muttering these same words every time, “Hell, Pat would have caught
    that!”

    Just a thought.
    Thank you for your time.
    ~Rishard

  4. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Jays get-Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs

    Phils get- Roy Halladay

  5. Mike

    July 31, 2008 at 9:29 am

    If they can get Manny without giving up Burrel I would love to have him..who needs pitching when the opposing pitcher has to face this…

    Rollins
    Utley
    Burrell
    ManRam
    Howard
    Victorino

  6. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Marson happ golsen donald

    for

    Halladay

    ———————————-

    Carrasco happ donald PTBL

    for

    Holliday

  7. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 9:29 am

    I’m doing: Carlos Carrasco, Cay Condrey, Lou Marson, Jason Donald, Mike Zagurski, Joe Blanton, Brad Harman, Fabio Castro and Ryan Howard – for – Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Bary Zito and Bengie Molina.

  8. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:32 am

    why do people NOT understand that manny ramirez is not coming here?

  9. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 9:33 am

    Geoff wants Roy Halladay, Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, and 4 different relievers.. and thinks we can give Bastardo and some shitty prospects for all of them

  10. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 9:35 am

    I still can’t believe the Yankees got Pudge for Farnsworth? Where and why were the Phillies not looking at Pudge. I know Ruiz can call a game. But so can Pudge. And most of all Pudge can HIT and bring leadership to the team. That would of been a GREAT move for the Phillies! And I think the Phillies have better prospects then Farnsworth!

  11. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:36 am

    im laying out different scenarios.

    actually, no we cant don. but YOUR man-friend pat gillick isnt going to do any of that.

  12. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Mike…

    Im thinking it would be.

    Rollins
    Utley
    Manny
    Howard
    Burrell
    VIctorino
    Feliz
    Ruiz
    Eaton

  13. Brian

    July 31, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Is that GOB from arrested development?

    Anyway, I would take a LH reliever for a few prospects (excluding Marson and Carrasco). Highly doubtful they will go after a big bat.

    I would, however, trade Carassco and another prospect for Cain. Solid #2 starter (still young) and can swing a bat every now and then.

  14. Christian

    July 31, 2008 at 9:38 am

    I would love to see them land Roy Halliday and would give up just about anything to get him.

    Jason Bay would be a nice fit too. Maybe deal Werth and a prospect or two for him (althoug I read that he is on his way to Boston in a three-team Manny deal).

    A left-handed reliever is a must to give Romero a breather.

    It would be great if we could package Werth and prospects to PIT for Grabow and Bay; and then empty the farm to TOR for Halliday.

    Hamels, Halliday, Blanton, Moyer, Kendrick, with Meyers in the 8th inning role would be nice.

  15. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 9:38 am

    He must still be sleeping Geoff… somebody should call him, remind him that its trade-day… remind him to take his pills.. and then get on the horn

  16. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Arrested Development, fantastic show – if you haven’t seen it, buy/rent the dvds today.

  17. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 9:39 am

    metsfan – the tigers weren’t looking for prospects, they were looking for a solid setup man. in that case, i’d imagine the tigers would have asked the phils for ryan madson or jc romero, which i’m not sure would have been beneficial philly.

    how much do you think detroit would love to take back cutting ties with chad durbin?

  18. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 9:40 am

    My girlfriend is a Phillies fan and I am a Met fan but we both agree on one thing we both hate the Yankees! And I do not get how they can get Nady, Marte & Pudge and give up NOTHING! I know the Mets and Phillies could of used All three players. How do the Yankees give up nothing for them? And maybe the Yankees can get Many for thier batboy?

  19. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:42 am

    did anyone ever see the old star trek episode where they go to the nazi planet and the dictator is a zombie propped up by pills and its reallly being run by a young fanatic?

    thats what i treminds me of. i think gillick asses around and does nothing. amaro actually is the GM already, but noone in baseball knows it so they dont call the phillies.

  20. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 9:43 am

    I don’t see the Giants giving up Cain for Carrasco, mostly because Carrasco projects as a middle-rotation pitcher… with the potential to be a #2

    Cain could be dominant if he gets his control under control..

    But I think Brian is on the right track… like I said to Geoff last night… just because other teams are trading for someone doesn’t mean that is the guy the Phillies should have gone after.. Pudge would be nice in our lineup, but giving them a reliever (Im guessing that would have wanted Durbin and a prospect?) that weakens your bullpen, when we all know that they were and will be relying on their bullpen as the season comes to an end

  21. Paul

    July 31, 2008 at 9:43 am

    I think the biggest need if a left handed reliever. Please get somebody to help Romero out.

  22. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 9:46 am

    Nutty Professor… i didn’t read that.. before i posted, but im thinking that other teams might not like JC’s contract.. Madson isn’t a late-inning guy, Durbin has done just about everything all year, and he’s been the second most valuable bullpen guy behind Lidge this year.

    I dont see how we could have given them something that they wanted, and it be one of the guys we don’t rely on every game.. it just wouldn’t work.

    But of course people don’t see that, they just see the name Pudge and think Gillick sucks for not bringing him here.

  23. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 9:46 am

    The Phils didn’t get Pudge because, not only what Nutty said, but also because of Pudge’s huge remaining contract. He can hit a little still, but he is nowhere close to being the Pudge of old.
    And everybody please stop with this Myers in the 8th inning thing. Chad Durbin has been pitching so well, where would you like to see him and J.C? The 7th? That makes NO sense.

  24. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Mike T., agreed. My favorite show of all-time, probably watched the entire series over 20 times.

  25. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 9:48 am

    exactly, Don

  26. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:48 am

    all i see if deals materializing everywhere around him but he doesnt get involved in the deals for the best players.

    they didnt even ask about jason bay or pudge from what we heard. at least pikc up the phone and see what they want. we have not been told that he even did that.

  27. Dennis

    July 31, 2008 at 9:49 am

    I just want to see them “go for it!” Enough about the prospects… I’m tired of playing for the future! Empty the farm system, who cares? We have a shot, we’re just a couple of pieces short. Sorry but I don’t agree with the people who don’t wanna mortgage the future, if we have a chance of getting Holliday(roy or matt), manny, fuentes, or any other PROVEN player then I say “go for it!” Please Phillies! Don’t give us the same old crap we get at every deadline! I WANT A STUD!!!

  28. Brian

    July 31, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Don that’s a good point re: Carassco. With regards to LH Relievers, it’s ashame Zagurski is still recovering. I thought he was solid for us down the stretch last year.

  29. Rishard

    July 31, 2008 at 9:50 am

    I must apologize… I just read my posting and it’s official, I’m a knob.

    In my previous posting I typed “Matt Holiday” COL/OF but was thinking Roy Halladay TOR/P.

    Oh, well… I’ll blame that on being here under-the-gun at work with just a
    pinch of me being blonde.

  30. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 9:51 am

    actually, Greg H, Pudge is a free agent at year’s end.
    also, i could understand myers in the bullpen if he falters and happ steps up. he myers proved last year he can handle late game duties, so why not trust him in that spot again this year?

  31. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 9:51 am

    I have a feeling the deadline is going to come and go and the Phils will not have made one memorable move.

  32. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Don, agreed totally. Everytime a big name pops up on the bottom line or internet and the Phils aren’t connected to it, people in this town bitch and moan that the Phils didn’t get him and WAH WAH WAH!
    Quit crying! The Phils will do what they do and most of these trades they didn’t make are the ones that make sense (aka Utley, Bourne, and Madson for Zito while he was still an A).
    And Geoff, come on man. Gillick has been very good as our GM and Rube may be next in line, but isn’t there yet. The Phils will do something to improve this club, have Phaith

  33. Craig

    July 31, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Is it time to put a fork in Benson for this season?

  34. Dennis

    July 31, 2008 at 9:54 am

    NEPA, you are correct sir! We’re getting nobody! Let’s face it Phils fans… And Brian, I’m sorry but Zagurski was way overrated last year.

  35. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Nutty, thank you, but I am aware Pudge is a FA (not a retard), and I meant exactly what I said. Pudge is making 13 Million this year and The Phils would have to pick up whatever is pro-rated left on it. So actually read my posts before you knock them

  36. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:56 am

    pudges contract is up this year. the move was a salary dump from the tigers.

    if your man gillick does something. if he gets roy halladay, matt holliday, or even ron mahay ill be happy. and you can go ahead and gloat away and ill be happy too, and ill gloat too.

  37. Dennis

    July 31, 2008 at 9:58 am

    Greg H, Are you Ruben Amaro Jr. in disguise? You support that front office way too much… Yea some trades are better off not being made when you look at them years later but come on, eventually you gotta take chances and “go for it!”

  38. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 9:58 am

    i hope they do. i have zero faith in amaro, he rubs me the wrong way. i cant stand him. i dont want manny because it doesnt make sense.

    if a move makes sense then i promote it.

  39. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Well, excuse me Greg, but you made it sound like Pudge still had 4 years, $40 mil coming to him. Don’t be so touchy.

  40. Brian

    July 31, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Dennis,: he was somewhat of a hope to their bullpen last year. Compared to this Bullpen, he’s a but overrated but last year he helped out. Just saying, as another lefty at this point if no trade goes through I wouldn’t mind him in there. Here’s to hoping we get a solid LH regardless.

  41. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:00 am

    And as for Myers, if you want to see 12 million wasted on a set-up man that will perform worse than the current ones we have and in the process shove Brett’s head even further up his own “rock star” ass mentally, go right ahead.
    You say Myers has proven he can handle late innings, but also has shown, in the past since you can’t wrap your head around the fact that its the past, that he can be a quality starter and I’ve conducted the Brett Myers Support Train for a while now and I am not ready to give up

  42. Mike

    July 31, 2008 at 10:00 am

    If the Marlins get Manny we are Phucked….

  43. Chase Mutley

    July 31, 2008 at 10:02 am

    NEPA, what are you talking about? I will certainly remember the Joe Blanton trade. ; )

  44. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Guys guys guys, don’t worry, we’re getting Arthur Rhodes – everything will be fine.

  45. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Craig – I had no faith in Benson making an impact for us at any point. Even if he did make a full recovery we’re not exactly talking about a stud pitcher here.

  46. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 10:04 am

    ok, Greg, you’re cool with the status quo. Let’s see what you have to say when Myers is getting rocked in September and Happ is wasting away in a long relief role.

  47. Greg V.

    July 31, 2008 at 10:04 am

    I’d make a push at Holliday and Fuentes again. Empty out the closet, fuck it. This is the year to go for it.

    Or grab Hallady.

    Or don’t talk to me! And is it really true that our offer for Manny was Jenkins and a prospect? Gillick should be fired just for being that stupid!

  48. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Marson, Carrasco, Happ, Donald and PTBNL for Halladay

    Marson, Carrasco, Donald and PTBNL for Greinke

    We need a top-end starter far more than we need a LH reliever.

  49. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Oh trust me I can’t stand the front office and I am the first one in line to say GO FOR IT, but as we can all agree, we have been in this town way too long and there is a line to be drawn with realism. I would marry my cousin if Roy Halladay became a Phil, but its not like Gillick has been terrible. Stop looking at Eaton, Helms, Flash, and Barajas (for at least one second bc they were terrible moves) and look at Durbin, the Lidge trade, the Rowand trade, the Utley extension, and grabbing Romero and Werth off the scrap heap. As been as its been, its also been very good. Just trying to keep a level head
    And Nutty, sorry for being so touchy (and I actually mean it. No sarcasm)

  50. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Mutley, I was only talking about from here to the deadline, or in at least the past few days. And we all might end up remembering Blanton simply because it turns out to be a bad move.

  51. Dennis

    July 31, 2008 at 10:05 am

    I’m for Myers in the rotation for at least this year. They’ve screwed with his head enough, just let him be. As for Happ, I guess he would work in the pen altho he is a great trade chip. I don’t know what’s going to happen but I’m pretty sure the trade the Phils make won’t even make ESPN’s bottomline.

  52. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Hell, go back to Beane and trade him Carrasco, Donald and a throw-in for the Duke.

  53. Alex

    July 31, 2008 at 10:09 am

    They still need another lefty in the bullpen. George Sherrill and Ron Mahay are available. I would trade Jason Donald or Greg Golson for either of those guys – especially Mahay. I would also plug J.A. Happ into the rotation and put Blanton in the bullpen. A rotation of Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Kendrick, and Happ gives the Phils the best chance of winning. Assuming Myers continues to pitch the way he did on Tuesday night.

  54. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:09 am

    I never said I trust Myers to be a starter, just that he had success as one. I just think he should be a 7th inning guy, or the 8th inning guy by committee w/ Durbs and JC.
    I agree Happ is wasting away in LR and can’t stand to see that promise wasting away, but if there is a starter on the block here not named Joe Blanton, it should be Kyle Kendrick. If he hasnt gotten all the run support in the world, he would have nowhere near the #s he does. We all know wins and losses are a garbage stat bc they rely on offense just as much as pitching (aka Cole Hamels and Johan), and I think w/out KK we dont win last year, but KK has options left and I, for one, like Happ more than Kyle

  55. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Alex, assuming Myers pitches the way he does Sunday is not a smart thing to do. It was against the Nats, plus we’ve seen him pitch tremendous at points this year and still turn around and blow ass the next few starts.

  56. bull

    July 31, 2008 at 10:16 am

    make the push for holliday and fuentes or go after oswalt…anyone against marson for oswalt the stros need a catcher worse than the phils

  57. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:17 am

    I’m highly against that. I expect Marson to be up here next year, and Oswalt is hurt isn’t he? Or at least hurt recently?

  58. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Why don’t we test the waters with Baltimore and Aubrey Huff? He can still play 3B, and with Feliz’s back a question mark, that’s a need. Plus his bat is a helluva lot better than Pedro’s.

    Also since Fast Eddie’s Astros are buying like they’re 3 games out, why don’t we unload Jenkins or Taguchi on them for, say 2 top prospects and a filler guy. You can’t tell me Ed Wade wouldn’t do it. Then we can turn Houston’s prospects around in a deal for a pitcher.

  59. Buffalophilsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 10:18 am

    The way I see it is if they go for a LH reliever like Mahay (who I prefer) it will help to win the division and get to the playoffs again. However, if they empty the farm and go for Halladay to combine with Cole then it is to win the World Series. I’m tired of protecting our “prospects” who may never even wear a Phillies uniform. Play for THIS YEAR, not the future. Whatever it takes to get Halladay make the move.

    I wonder if Gillick is even out of bed yet?? Somebody dial the phone for him!!

  60. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 10:21 am

    they might be able to win the division with a cheap outfield bat and a good, i mean good setup man.

    they need a top notch everyday RF, good stup man, elite starter to even SNIFF the world series though.

  61. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Astros have been “buying” for some strange reason , so Oswalt is definitely not getting traded..

    I think I’d rather have Blanton in the rotation than Kendrick..

    Hamels, Moyer, Myers, Blanton, Happ sounds good to me

  62. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Pete, the top half of your post I WOULD agree with, BUT Huffer is a left-handed bat and if the Phillies go out and get a lefty bat, Ill kill myself. Huff is having a great year, but we need a RH bat, but awesome idea thinking out side the box

  63. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 10:21 am

    If the Astros would take Marson for Oswalt straight up, I’d do it in a second, pending a physical on Oswalt, whose numbers have taken a precipitous drop this year. Before this year, his LOWEST ERA+ for a season was 125. This year he’s at 91. Since he’s only 30, that kind of drop is surprising absent an injury of some sort.

  64. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 10:22 am

    for oswalt? you know what the prive of those guys is

    you want roy oswalt? carlos carrasco or lou marson AND jason donald fabio castro and greg golson

  65. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Gillcik is probably up in Toronto as we speak… but just visiting his home, not making any trade demands.

  66. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Don M, couldnt agree with you more brother

  67. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 10:24 am

    If the the Phillies made atleast 1 move like getting Pudge would that please most Phillies fans that management is at least trying to win?
    Or would they have to get a huge player to make them happy?

  68. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Geoff – all that, just to sniff the world series? Your acting like the NL has some good teams in it. I think an elite starter alone would put close to being the favorites to represent the NL.

  69. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Greg – good point about Huff being a lefty…true enough that another LH bat is not what we need.

  70. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:25 am

    about Blanton starting, or Gillick in Toronto??

  71. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 10:25 am

    well, it is ed wade though, so im sure theyd have to pay half that.

  72. bull

    July 31, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I don’t care what GM’s say, no one is untouchable for the right deal.

  73. Craig

    July 31, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Why are people so down on Kendrick? He’s been pretty damn solid since he was brought up.

  74. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 10:28 am

    really? what about the milwaukee brewers? remember them? they got to hamels before. what about the cubs? you think were better than those teams? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    its going to be a dogfight just to win the division, ok. let alone get to the WS. are you smoking crack?

    even with an elite starter, youve seen this lineup against GOOD pitching. what happens? they get shutout. all the time. they need to figure out how to at least nickel and dime a run or two out of a good pitcher and they havent shown to be capable of that more than once or twice all year.

    you think theyre going to come close to scoring on cc sabathia?

  75. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 10:28 am

    i actually like kendrick where he is. hes a good 4/5 starter at this poin tin his career.

  76. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 10:29 am

    And as far as the Manny thing. He is NOT going anywhere. The Red Sox do this every year! They can’t trade him now since the Yankees made all these moves this past week. They cannot give up their best hitter now. Red Sox management would be destroyed by the Sox fans and they just can’t do it. Thats like trading Utley today. Its not going to happen. You would be giving up on the season and the fans this year!

  77. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:29 am

    With an elite starter? Yes, I do think we’re better than those teams or pretty damn close. To say we can’t even sniff the WS is ridiculous.

  78. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:30 am

    I dont think that you need to give up the world for Oswalt.. but I don’t think he’s on the market either, so why all the talk about him?

    There really isn’t any starting pitching out there, which makes the Phillies aquiring Blanton look a little better since there was nobody else…

    Gabrow, Mahay, and Ohman from Atlanta are the names you might be seeing on a Phillies jersey.. if we were going to pull a blockbuster, you would have heard rumors already.

    Speaking of rumors… Ken Griffey Jr…. has been dealt to the WhiteSox, but hasn’t accepted the trade yet. He has 10 years of MLB service, and over 5 with the same team, so he can reject a trade if he wants.. I’d imagine he would want to play in games that matter though, so I see him taking this trade

  79. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Milwaukee has lost 4 games straight (3 head to head with the cubs) in the middle of a divisional race. Your right, the Brewers would embarrass us in the playoffs.

  80. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Geoff…. you contradict yourself at least 10 times a week.. you wanted the Phillies to add Pudge.. but then just went on a rant about how we get shut down by good pitching anyway.. and we aren’t anywhere near the Cubs or the Brewers..

    Whats your deal dude??

  81. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Pete- dont get me wrong, I think you made an awesome point and trade offer, and if Huff was a RH bat, I would be all over that. What say you to the Phils making a small push to get Thomas Perez back on this club to replace Taguchi? (there is slight sarcasm here, and some bias bc I love Thomas and he is sitting in the Minors)

  82. fred

    July 31, 2008 at 10:33 am

    i’d jump on a blockbuster for holliday and fuentes. Maybe Happ, Carrasco, Donald and Golson ? Just don’t trade Marson… please.

  83. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Apparently the Cardinals have just recently been reported as willing to deal KYLE LOHSE. What do you think guys? I say the Phillies need to swallow their nuts and move on this one. He drastically alters the market for starters if the Cardinals aren’t just blowing smoke up everyone’s ass.

  84. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Nobody is down on Kendrick.. im just saying that of the guys in the rotation, he would be odd man out.

    Someone suggested Blanton to the bullpen, but Blanton’s strength is his ability to regularely go 7 innings.. I think Happ has more upside than Kendrick (who in my mind should be a 5th starter, 4th at best)

    He’s done a nice job, but I don’t really see him as a difference maker, despite some great starts from him at times.. I guess he is just too inconsistent for me… Not like Brett Myers… (god our pitching drives me nuts)

  85. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:36 am

    If Lohse is available at the right price, I’d be all over that.

  86. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Can you imagine if the Phillies got Adam Dunn in that ballpark? Its to bad they can’t with Howard on the team the strikeouts would be crazy.

  87. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Man you people have to learn not how to read, but how to read critically. I didn’t say I dont like KK or I am down on him, I said he is the starter in my eyes that has the most chance of being sent down BC HE HAS OPTIONS LEFT! I also said he helped huge for us last year and I like him as the 5, but Happ is better to me

  88. Richie

    July 31, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Listen Geoff, you are right. This team on paper is not comparable to what the Brewers or Cubs have in arms, but if we were to add an upper echelon arm, and get into the playoffs then anything can happen there. Who thought the Rox were really making it to the series last year with a good Cubs and Dbacks team. What about the horrible Cardinals team beating the great Mets team on paper. Then winning it against the great Tigers team. Anything can happen in the big dance, but you gotta make it there.

  89. Alex

    July 31, 2008 at 10:37 am

    I can’t for the life of me understand how the hell Ed Wade is a Major League GM. They are 13.5 GB, they can’t hit, they can’t field, and they can’t pitch…and they’re BUYERS! Yeah, Randy Wolf will help them catch the Cubs – give me a freakin’ break. His teammates should have let Shawn Chacon finsh the job!

  90. PhilliesDiary

    July 31, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Holliday or Halladay……i am not giving up the farm for Fuentes…..

    I would prefer an above average starter that can eat innings…But that Matt Holliday would give an already talented offense a boost that other teams would have to beware of…

  91. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Cards are said to be looking for a bat and a reliever for Lohse.

  92. fred

    July 31, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Good cubs team last year ? They won 85 games…

  93. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Every year guys with .500 records go to the Cardinals and DOMINATE…. its because of Dave Duncan..

    Lohse here would gives us 8 starting pitchers that should be slotted anywhere between #3 and #5 in a good rotation.

  94. metsfan

    July 31, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Here is the list for free agent starters next year and it is not so great. Too many old pitchers in there.

    Starting pitchers

    Tony Armas Jr. (31)
    Kris Benson (33)
    A.J. Burnett (32) – can opt out after ’08 season
    Paul Byrd (38)
    Roger Clemens (46)
    Matt Clement (33) – $8.75MM club option for ’09 with a $0.25MM buyout
    Ryan Dempster (32)
    Josh Fogg (32)
    Jon Garland (29)
    Tom Glavine (43)
    Mike Hampton (36)
    Mark Hendrickson (35)
    Livan Hernandez (34)
    Orlando Hernandez (43)
    Jason Jennings (30)
    Randy Johnson (45)
    John Lackey (30) – $9MM club option for ’09 with a $0.5MM buyout
    Jon Lieber (39)
    Esteban Loaiza (37) – $7.5MM club option for ’09 with a $0.375MM buyout
    Braden Looper (34)
    Derek Lowe (36)
    Greg Maddux (43)
    Pedro Martinez (37)
    Jamie Moyer (46)
    Mark Mulder (31) – $11MM club option for ’09 with a $1.5MM buyout
    Mike Mussina (40)
    Carl Pavano (33) – $13MM club option for ’09 with a $1.95MM buyout
    Brad Penny (31) – $8.75MM club option for ’09 with a $2MM buyout
    Odalis Perez (32)
    Oliver Perez (27)
    Andy Pettitte (37)
    Mark Prior (27)
    Kenny Rogers (44)
    C.C. Sabathia (28)
    Curt Schilling (42)
    Ben Sheets (30)
    John Smoltz (42) – $12MM club option for ’09
    Brett Tomko (36)
    Tim Wakefield (42) – perpetual $4MM club option
    Kip Wells (32)
    Randy Wolf (32)

  95. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Man Don, I must say, you and I are pretty much agreeing on every point as I agree again w/ not only your KK point (since its about the same as mine), but w/ your Geoff thing. He comments on almost every post like 15 times. Its like he never runs out of his own opinions to shoot out there. Geoff, hate to say it bud, but you do contradict the shit out of yourself.
    Maybe cool off a little, head down to Ritas grab a Misto and take a few days off from stalking this blog and trying to get your opinion out there enough so Tim looks at it and offers you a job w/ PN. BTW Tim, I bought 2 Boo? T-shirts and love them man. Keep that up!

  96. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Man Don, I must say, you and I are pretty much agreeing on every point as I agree again w/ not only your KK point (since its about the same as mine), but w/ your Geoff thing. He comments on almost every post like 15 times. Its like he never runs out of his own opinions to shoot out there. Geoff, hate to say it bud, but you do contradict the shit out of yourself.
    Maybe cool off a little, head down to Ritas grab a Misto and take a few days off from stalking this blog and trying to get your opinion out there enough so Tim looks at it and offers you a job w/ PN. BTW Tim, I bought 2 Boo? T-shirts and love them man. Keep that up!

  97. Greg H

    July 31, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Man Don, I must say, you and I are pretty much agreeing on every point as I agree again w/ not only your KK point (since its about the same as mine), but w/ your Geoff thing. He comments on almost every post like 15 times. Its like he never runs out of his own opinions to shoot out there. Geoff, hate to say it bud, but you do contradict the shit out of yourself.
    Maybe cool off a little, head down to Ritas grab a Misto and take a few days off from stalking this blog and trying to get your opinion out there enough so Tim looks at it and offers you a job w/ PN. BTW Tim, I bought 2 Boo? T-shirts and love them man. Keep that up!

  98. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Don, im not going to explain anything else to you. i feel like i have to spell it out EVERY SINGLE TIME, and qualify every statement and provide the background EVERY SINGLE TIME. if you dont understand what im saying by now then you should just pay attention next time.

  99. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Rhodes to the Marlins, thank god. I couldn’t get on this site for the past half hour or so. I guess server problems or something. Anybody else having the same problems?

  100. Paul

    July 31, 2008 at 11:11 am

    I was having problems too.

    Glad to see that the Phils didn’t get Rhodes. Didn’t need that retread.

  101. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Huuuuuuuuuuuuuge move by the Marlins.

  102. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:13 am

    I dont actually contradict myeself, my philosophy is i want them to win. thats what its always been.

    how id go about doing it may very from time to time, but no more or less than anyone else on here.

    you want to win now then you have to get desperate and give up prospects that youd normally always say are untouchable.

    otherwise, stand pat. now, theyre not even going to get arthur rhodes becaus eth emarlins got him. HAHAHA.

    ed snider: please buy the phillies so we dont have to deal with these pat gillick ruben amaro BOOTLICKERS.

  103. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 11:15 am

    I’d rather make no move then give up a solid SP prospect for Rhodes.

  104. Nick

    July 31, 2008 at 11:15 am

    I would love to see the phils get Roy Halladay. We can live with the catchers we have for now, so give up Marson, Happ, Donald and give up madson too.
    Then we can call up carrasco to the bullpen.

  105. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Greg – I wouldn’t mind seeing Perez back, especially since Taguchi (save for that double, which was huge) hasn’t done a thing and won’t get in games shorter than 12 innings, anyway.

    Maybe we try to pry Beltre away from Seattle?

  106. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 11:17 am

    With 5 hours left til the deadline, I think we would have heard something by now if the Phils were making a huge move like that for Halladay. Plus, it’s the Phils, they don’t make moves like that.

  107. TJ

    July 31, 2008 at 11:17 am

    We need to make a last run at Holliday and Halladay.

  108. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Also, ive ALWAYS said they will not win the WS this year and that their pitching isnt good enough. none of that has changed. you want to wrangle over what prospects they should or shouldnt trade? be my guest. their prospects theyre unknowns and they change all the time. so people opinions of them are going to change.

    if youre going to get on someone for that then youre a complete douchebag.

  109. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:18 am

    We are screwed. Manny I wasn’t worried about, but with Rhodes anchoring that bullpen, the Phils have no shot. SELL SELL SELL

  110. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:18 am

    that spoils the fun of posting on here.

  111. TJ

    July 31, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Maybe we try to pry Beltre away from Seattle?

    Not a bad idea, but what happens when Feliz returns and we have Dobbs, Feliz, Bruntlett, Jenkins/Werth on the bench?

  112. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:20 am

    besides, when im pissed off, im still going to come on here and unleash an EXTREME rant.

  113. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Geoff, how are we supposed to pay attention when you post something every 30 seconds on here, and none of it flows at all..

    this is what you said:

    “even with an elite starter, youve seen this lineup against GOOD pitching. what happens? they get shutout. all the time. they need to figure out how to at least nickel and dime a run or two out of a good pitcher and they havent shown to be capable of that more than once or twice all year.

    you think theyre going to come close to scoring on cc sabathia?”

    Adding Pudge would not help what we need… you were pissed the other day when they were looking into Mahay (who has better number than Grabow and Ohman this year)… you don’t want them to add Arthur Rhodes, then you complain that they “aren’t even going to get rhodes because the marlins got him” … so forgive me for not being able to follow your ever-changing views

    I personally could care less if you do or don’t explain things to me.. but everytime you post something outlandish, expect to get called out on it… and I would expect everyone to do the same to me (as has happened in the past).. only I take the time to think about a response, and give my reasoning behind my opinions.

  114. Dennis

    July 31, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Phillies aren’t even getting mention in any rumor on MLB.com or ESPN. Maybe we are being quiet so we can SHOCK the world! Haha not! Well at least we’re not getting Rhodes.

  115. Mark

    July 31, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Well, the offense has been quite hot as of late. Chase is getting back on track, Victory has a 10 game hit streak going and also has been belting his fair share of home runs, and Ryan Howard has been getting those clutch base hits moreso than ever. I think he finally learned he doesn’t need to homer every at bat. That’s huge for him, takes a bunch of the pressure off his shoulders.

    What I’m concerned with right now is J-Roll’s motivation. Quite frankly, I’m wondering where it is? He’s doing O.K. this season but, it’s nothing like last season which pretty much put us over the top, well, that and having Rowand in the 6 spot. He hasn’t “WOW’d” me once yet this season (except maybe the Mets game but, still, that was one hit). I really hope the Phillies go out and get a solid bat to pick up for J-Roll’s lack of performance. Sadly, I dont believe we are going to win with our already established lineup.

    Unfortunately, GM Pat Gillick boggles my mind with his decisions. I respect the fact that he doesn’t want to deplete the farm system but, in order to get a proven player, your going to have to. By the looks of it, the Phillies have been struggling all season with their offense, and I have yet to hear one person say “the Phillies are, right now, playing their best ball”. All the players and management don’t believe they have reached their peak yet but, honestly, will they ever?

    It’s too far up in the air right now, in my eyes, if the Phillies have enough to not only win the NL East but go the distance in the playoffs. Again, while I respect Gillick’s decision looking out for our farm club I ask this: When will those farm players ever be used in the Bigs? It doesn’t seem that they’ll be up anytime soon, and to just keep them in case of injury is dumb. So, what I believe, is that the Phillies need to bare NO expense with the remaining few hours left till the trade deadline. They have ALMOST all of the pieces of the puzzle, they just need that one big piece in their lineup to allow them to destroy the mets and marlins and contend with AL power houses like the Sox, Yanks, Rays, and of course, the Angels.

    (Yes, I said the Yankees. They’ll make the playoffs with their latest trades. Now that’s a team that knows how to work the trades so they can acquire the players that could potentially help them get into the playoffs and into the Series this year.)

  116. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:30 am

    I will admit i was out of line about ron mahay. i was just shocked that the price of relievers is so high.

    ok fin eill be happy to get called out on it.

    pudge is an experienced veteran leader/bat. you could hit him higher in the order and hed fare better in the postseasn or down the stretch against real starting pitching. we all alreayd know about the pithcing and it shouldbnt have to go hashed out again.

    i dont want rhodes, never did, im just saying watch them not do anythign at all. they wont even make a bad move, let alone a good one.

    all of this is fairly obvious though. i will certaintly call you out whne you say something outlandish as well, you can count on that.

  117. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:31 am

    I understand that people are frustrated and want to make a big splash

    BUT..

    Why would Toronto want to give up the best pitcher in baseball for a bunch of prospects who didn’t rank in the top-50 in baseball heading into this season?

    Beltre is good, but Feliz is a Gold-Glove caliber 3rd baseman, who hasn’t hurt this team at the plate.

    Pudge would have looked nice in the 6 spot in the order, but it would have taken away from our bullpen, which we need to strengthen now that the season is coming to an end.

    As my man-crush (right Geoff?) Gillick said… “In our particular case, we have to play up to our potential. There are times this season we have played up to that potential, and there are other times we’ve played very inconsistently. I just think offensively and from a pitching standpoint we have to play consistently with not so many ups and downs and we’ll be fine.”

  118. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:31 am

    i would LOVE to be proven wrong and for pat gillick to pull of a masterful work of art trade. thatd maek us all feel better.

  119. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:32 am

    TJ – we cross that bridge when we get there. I wouldn’t mind having that bench at all. If need be, we try to clear someone through waivers and work a post-deadline trade. For the time being, I’m not very happy with a Dobbs/Bruntlett platoon at 3B. And if Jimmy or Chase need to sit a game, that means Dobbs and Bruntlett need to start right now, which hurts the offense and the defense.

    It really depends on whether the Phils think Feliz is going to be close to 100% when he comes off the DL

  120. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Yea, call me out on stuff and then people can have actual, knowledgable baseball conversations and we can get away from the trade Howard for Lincecum type stuff, or where people just bash the orgainzation just because they feel like typing..

    Of the guys out there.. I think i’d like to get Mahay the most.. Fuentes costs too much.. Ohman is good against lefties.

    They COULD use a RH hitter, but outside of Jason Bay (whose price is also sky high) I don’t know who is realistically available.

    I just want to brace people for the fact that they probably aren’t going to do anything major.. AND… if their team would start playing consistent baseball, they should still be fine, and should still make the playoffs even without adding something crazy today

  121. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I’m surprised not one person on this thread mentioned that the cards are shopping Loshe…

  122. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 11:37 am

    I saw that – whatever. The phils won’t even try.

  123. Chase Mutley

    July 31, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Well put, Don.

  124. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Pete,

    I don’t think anyone is especially excited about Dobbs/Bruntlett at 3b right now.. but the fact that we have them shows how deep we are.. some teams would kill for either of those guys if a starter went down.

    Dobbs is the BEST pinch hitter in baseball over the past 2 seasons.. and Bruntlett can play anywhere at anytime, which is crucial in an extra-inning game, or if someone gets hurt… both of which can happen and mean a lot to the win-column at the end of the season

  125. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:39 am

    Don – if Feliz weren’t hurt, Beltre wouldn’t make sense. As it is, though, do we really have any idea when he’ll be back? Dobbs/Bruntlett at third for the rest of August isn’t going to get it done.

    As for Toronto, they’d trade Halladay because their team is going NOWHERE as currently put together and they need to build through prospects. Their entire infield stinks, and after Doc and Burnett their pitching isn’t much, either. Do we have the pieces to do it? Maybe not…depends on what their scouts think, really, and we have no way to know. But if the Jays hang on to Halladay it’s hard to see them going anywhere – he can only win them a game every 5th day.

  126. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Yea, me and another guy mentioned the Lohse thing above. They’re looking for a bat and a reliever.

  127. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Phil,

    people did mention it but it was right around when the WORDPRESS crap started again.. at least on my computer… Here was my response to it:

    “Every year guys with .500 records go to the Cardinals and DOMINATE…. its because of Dave Duncan..

    Lohse here would gives us 8 starting pitchers that should be slotted anywhere between #3 and #5 in a good rotation.”

  128. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:41 am

    who there don..i was not the one who originated the howard lincecum talk. i dont know who taht ones, mightve been gavin or phil?? cant remember.

    i saw the lohse thing, how ironic would that be? hes a free agent at seasons end this year too. a complete full cycle right back where we started.

    i think the phillies pitching coaches suck really really bad.

    have you noticed that when people come here their velocity goes down?

    blanton throws 90-95 and his vlelocity has been at 88 since he got here. myers has had a velocity issue most of the year. kendrick i feel could throw a TAD higher than he does. hamels probably throw a tad higher too, but by much.

    has enyone else noticed that? rich dubee was awesome with the marlins staff when he was there, but it seems like people lose velocity when thjey come here. someone mentioned lohse earlier. know why hes awesome this year? hes velocity and command are way up with a different coach.

  129. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:42 am

    i also think that fuentes is way overpriced, theyre out of line with taht. i wonder how much more they wanted for mahay if donald isnt enough

  130. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Don – I agree about Dobbs as the best PH in baseball and Bruntlett as a crucial play anywhere piece late in games or to give a guy a breather. But if we’re forced to start those guys, it takes them out of EXACTLY those roles. They need to be coming off the bench, not starting regularly.

    I just have this sinking feeling that Feliz is going to be on and off the shelf for the rest of the year. I could be wrong, and I’m not going to bash Gillick if he doesn’t get Beltre, but it would be a solid move to help the team.

    Other than that, short of getting Halladay, I’d love to see Mahay or Ohman. The Mahay/Donald deal sounded fair to me, but I think the Royals have been trying to drive the price up. Maybe they’ll come back close to the deadline, who knows?

  131. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:45 am

    They do need to see about Feliz, but they can’t just go get Beltre right now, because if Feliz comes back healthy… you are now stuck with Beltre too…

    I just think he was injured too close to the deadline, and if its just spasms… then that chiropractor (spell check) that they brought in this year should help.

    If Feliz stays hurt for the year, then you’re right.. those guys won’t cut it.. but until they know I can’t see them making a move for 3b

    I think if they were going to trade Halladay, they would have done it earlier since you could get more for him then the Indians did for Sabathia.. I see Halladay possibly getting traded before Spring Training, when teams that missed out on Free Agents need to go crazy to improve… there is always a big market out there, like the Santana trade..

  132. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 11:48 am

    To everyone so fascinated with Halladay on here…why should we give up 4 (or more) major league ready prospects or everyday players in exchange for him right now? He’s signed for two more years, due to make $14.25MM next year and $15.75MM the following (2010). I would rather see the Phils keep those prospects and position players/pitchers and make a run at CC or Ben Sheets in the off-season. Then we have a pitcher signed to a longer term for slightly more per season perhaps, but at least we don’t have to give up the farm to get them.

  133. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Geoff.. i wasn’t saying that you were behind those Howard talks.. I was just saying that it sucks to listen to and debate trades that have ZERO chance of happening.

    I think that the pitchers themselves need to get some credit for how good they’ve been this year… but lots of credit also need to go to Rich Dubee, RUiz, and Coste.. the bullpen was awesome in the 1st half… credit needs to go somewhere

  134. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 11:48 am

    All of this Halladay talk is a waste of time. The Phillies ARE NOT getting Halladay. It’s as simple as that. They never try to get any players ever. The FO sucks. We’re just going to have to make due with what we have and bring in a B-lister here and there until the team is sold to a real owner.

  135. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:49 am

    you can always pick someone up during the aughust waiver period anyway if you really have to get a 3b.

    thats not their main issue anyway.

  136. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:52 am

    i agree about that aspect actually don. i can see halladay/dolliday trades making sense to me and me figuring out how itll work. thats why i promote them.

    but i was against manny ramirez all the way. and i saw it as ridiculous all along and was consistent about that. so it annoyed me when people were like, wow if we can get manny…NO…

    i guess it depends on whether or not you liek the players in question.

    what about hte velocity thing? teh staff has overperformed, thats for sure.

  137. Derek P.

    July 31, 2008 at 11:52 am

    So far that has happened or happening (trades and rumors):

    Xavier Nady and Damarso Marte to Yankees
    Casey Blake to Dodgers
    Pudge to Yanks for Farnsworth
    LaTroy Hawkins to Astros
    Arthur Rhodes to Marlins
    Mark Texiera to Angels for Kotchman and minor leaguer
    Ken Griffey Jr. to White Sox (junior approves so it’s final whites sox get griffey jr.)
    Cardinals saying they will trade loshe if they get the right package
    Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates blockbuster deal is 50-50 because they might not be able to choose the prospects to give up by 4pm and also manny would only go to florida for two months cause marlins won’t resign manny
    if blockbuster deal doensn’t happen, pirates might trade jason bay to rays
    rays also looking at jayson werth
    Maddux deal between padres and dodgers broken down
    same with yanks and washburn
    cla meredith on block
    phils jason donald might be dealt today
    rumors if phils trade for ron mahay, jose guillen might be included
    the mets are really quiet so far
    one source says chance of manny coming to philly has risen by 1or2 percent but still very unlikely
    same source saying if burrell leaves next year phils might sign manny
    just to tell white sox for getting ken griffey jr. are sending danny richar and nick masset to reds
    Florida’s gm and president says they are interested in manny and the trade winds are picking up, but there is no deal on the table yet
    lots of offers have or are about to be offered for will ohman
    arizona has trade for adam dunn that would send chad tracy to reds
    scott schoweneweis is almost officaly on the block
    cubs might trade scott eyre
    huston street might go to white sox
    Rays are considering Adam Dunn
    About 4 hours left
    Espn’ mlb trade deadline blog has something wrong in it because i went to check doesn’t come up

    i’ll send more now

  138. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 11:52 am

    I am really pissed off about this Blanton thing. It’s eating me inside. Does he improve our team? Not really. Happ probably would have been just as good. Instead we go and trade away 2 good trade chips, and then we’re stuck with someone who is mediocre for a few years. I’m sick of mediocrity. I want to see this team win it all. It’s fucking bullshit. I’m watching all of these teams make huge trades while Pat Gillick is getting a blow job from Ruben Amaro Jr. Fuck the ownership/GM’s of the Phillies. It’s unfair to us fans to watch this bullshit happen.

  139. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:53 am

    is jose guillen an impending FA????

  140. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:54 am

    blanton improves the team IF AND ONLY IF he does what hes supposed to do, but thius far he has not.

    its only an incremental improvement though because hes replacing eaton.

  141. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 11:56 am

    blanton will be fine.

  142. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Exactly Geoff. Exactly. I want a real upgrade not another #4 pitcher. I’m sick of this bullshit mediocrity. Thank god Moyer is pitching like he’s 35 again or we’d be fucked.

  143. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Jamie – are you kidding me? Ben Sheets is injured all the time and can’t hold Halladay’s jock when he’s healthy. Nonetheless, he will get paid at least $16-18MM per year (i.e., more than Halladay). CC is going to command $20MM plus. Even if the FO were willing to pay that (they’re not), you’d be paying far more per year to have a guy who, at best, is as good as Halladay.

    Yes, Halladay would “only” be signed through 2010, but guess what – that’s EXACTLY THE SAME as the window for this team to win a WS. Howard is going to be gone in a year or two. Burrell is gone after this year. Rollins’ contract expires in 2010 or ’11. The only prospects out of the bunch that have any real hope of making an impact by 2010 are Happ and Marson. But I can guarantee you they won’t make the impact Halladay would.

    When a team is a piece or two away from being a serious contender, it cannot hold onto its prospects at the expense of acquiring those pieces. It just makes no sense.

  144. OZ

    July 31, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Honestly, I’d sell. No way can this team hang with Milwaukee & the Cubs in the playoffs. If the Marlins get Manny, same deal.

    Myers for a prospect or two. Same for Werth. If someone makes the incredible offer for Howard, same thing. Frees up a lot of money w/ Howard & Myers gone….sign Burrell (happy & healthy), Hamels, and still money for an off-season legit pitcher.

    we could be very legit in 09. sounds crazy i’m sure.

  145. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 11:57 am

    blantons range is 90-95 with a 93 mph average for his FB. why was he throwing 88 the other day and in his first start. thats pisses me off and its driving me nuts. they come here, their velocity goes down.

  146. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Didn’t Blatnon only pitch twice so far (one of which got rained on)… and weren’t we going to give him 4-5 starts before we said he sucked or not?

    Good link from Derek. I was thinking about Mahay + Guillen today on the ride into work.. he’s another crazy bastard, but he can hit.. I think he’s signed for 2 years?

  147. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    too late to sell if you want to sell. deals take time. you have to put the word out through the media months ahead off time if youre REALLY going to sell. then you wait until the winter meetings, show up, and collect bounty. thats how its done properly. then you can demand prospects who are ready to step right up.

  148. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    You’re right Mike T. Blanton will be fine as another #4 or #5 pitcher. How many of them do we have/need? I mean, we’re all praying Myers can ACTUALLY be a #2/#3 like he’s supposed to be, but if not then what do we have to rely on? Fucking Kyle Kendrick and his typical Kendrickian outings? 6-7 innings 2-4 ERs? Are we really going to rely on 45 year old Moyer to continue to pitch the way he has. I mean, he’s been fucking incredible, and I hope he keeps it up, but you just never know. Even Hamels gets destroyed sometimes. And now there are rumors that his elbow is fracture. Fucking great…I’m sick of mediocrity. This team could be one of the best Phillies franchises ever…EVER! And what does the FO do? They continue with bringing garbage instead of trying to actually win. I mean, don’t get me wrong, Loshe, Moyer, and Lydle really helped us the past 3 seasons, but get something better this year. We actually have a chance and can make things happen.

  149. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Pete, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. I never said Sheets or CC were as good, better, or worse than Halladay. I just pointed out that what would be required to get Halladay would be more than I would be willing to give up, considering I could at least make a run at CC or Sheets (or someone else) in the off-season. Just differing opinions, bro.

  150. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Jamie – didn’t mean to come on that strong. Just (like most everyone else) frustrated at the FO crapping the bed at yet another trade deadline.

    To me, given the way the Phils are set up (they can and should win now), no price is too high for Halladay. I would gladly take a WS win and 3-4 years of mediocrity afterwards, if that’s what selling off the farm for Halladay got us.

  151. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    that’s what she said.

  152. steve

    July 31, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    so… i guess no one else thinks the trade deadline is incredibly overrated?

  153. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    overrated? i’m not sure what you mean. explain.

  154. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    You know whats really depressing. Looking at what the Brewers gave up for Sabathia, I think we could definitely have given the Indians better value. Think about it, we gave up Cardenas, Outman, and Spencer for Blanton (keep in mind that the Phillies majorly screwed up Outman’s mechanics, he had a motion I thought was similar to Tim Lincecum’s, who the Giants were smart enough not to force to change). The Brewers gave up Laporta, a (close in value to Cardenas and Golson), Bryson (Less value than Outman), and a throw in. Does anyone disagree with me here? Even if the Indians scouts were really high on Laporta, we should have been able to come up with a package to match him.

  155. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    that’s what happens when the whole league thinks our minor league system is junk, and you have idiots like tim maccarver and joe morgan tell the world how bad the phillies farm is, and then everyone believes it – including other gm’s.

  156. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Phillies didn’t have a bat anywhere close to LaPorta.. and that is what the Indians were looking for.

  157. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    ANYONE ELSE NOT ABLE TO GET ON HERE FOR LIKE THE PAST HOUR??????

  158. steve

    July 31, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    to me, there’s no sense even discussing ridiculous trades involving your lincecums and your halladays because they’re not going to happen. not now, not ever, and certainly not because after today teams aren’t allowed to trade players this season (which isn’t even true with waivers).
    the only byproduct of this is more whining that the phillies didn’t get a marquee player when they don’t have all that much to give up and have the same needs as every other team in baseball. there’s no sense deluding yourself into maybe kinda sorta hoping that the team’s ever cheap/shortsighted ownership is going to break the bank and go nuts.
    they’re a pretty good team right now that should be able to win this division, and i’m not going to take that away from Gillick just because he’s not willing to sell the next three years that he won’t even be around for for someone who may or may not even help the team’s playoff chances.

  159. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    I’ve been meaning to guess people’s ages on here based on their reactions and “demands” of this team..

    Geoff, 22
    Phil, 24
    Mike T, 28

    Lewisauce, 25

    …not to leave anyone out, these are just the guys I usually mass-debate with

  160. steve

    July 31, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    all that being said, sabathia would look pretty good in red pinstripes right now yes.
    …and it’s not gms listening to the media I think they pay scouts to look at other teams’ prospects. i wouldn’t let mccarver recommend a brand of chewing gum to me let alone who i should trade for.

  161. steve

    July 31, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    how old are you Don? ha

  162. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    25

  163. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Im 25.

  164. Jeff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    personally i would love to see the phils get sherrill from the orioles. its not that farfetched that they can get him. he gives them another lefty arm in the pen and he’s easily the best one on the market. all the orioles want is a ss, so they can give up jason donald who won’t ever play for the phils anyway. i don’t know if sherrill is still on the market but i know he was at one point

  165. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    what idiot said the trade deadline is overrated? this is exciting stuff going on here even if gillick is being quiet. hey, maybe hes working on one of those classified secret trades.

    the trade deadline is overrated???? you know what? get out…

  166. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Kennedy… The Phils easily could of put a better package together, but they didnt want to part with the prospects, but the Brewers were willling to. It is to late to go into sell mode, however this winter this team could use a good overhaul…

    Dump…
    Eaton (impossoble therefore Cut)
    Genkins(impossoble therefore Cut)

    Trade….
    Myers (Prospects: Marketed as a Closer)
    Howard (Anything you want, he is a Blank Check)

  167. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Geoff…What Triple AAA Extra Classified Secret Trades are brewing? I just enjoy the idea of secret trades, like the KGB of Baseball.

  168. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    haha i dont know.

    where is the link for golson being pulled today?? whered that come from

  169. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    i dont know. whos up for overpaying within the division for will ohman???? of course im not being serious

  170. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Would you guys do Howard straight up for Halladay and a mid to low-level prospect? The Jay’s would almost have to take that, Howard has more power than their top 3 hitters combined.

  171. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    I’m 23.

  172. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    i guessed younger for you geoff cause like 3 years ago i was the same way about get all fired-up all the time and whatnot.. and hoping and praying they were going to make trades.. but once I started to see the Marlins, Cardinals, Tigers, etc… teams that just added the right pieces and not All-Stars at every spot like the Yankees and RedSox.. i started to see things from the business point of view, and understand the moves they make a lot better now.

    According to ESPN, Rowand makes $9,600,000.00 this year…. Victorino makes $480,000.00 ….. that is a savings of $9,120,000 which HOPEFULLY will help us land a big time pitcher in the offseason. … that is why I tend to stay calm about this stuff and just enjoy the Phillies for what they are and hope and pray that im not like 70 years old by the time I see a Philadelphia championship

  173. steve

    July 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    no i like all the hoopla and everything that comes with the trade deadline, but i just hate the way people react negatively to not making knee jerk trades for the sake of making trades because there’s a deadline.
    i have faith in gillick’s track record that he’ll improve this team as best he can.

  174. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    you know what has a better chance of happening than that kennedy?

    the red sox trading josh beckett to the yankees for derek jeter…i mean comeon..i get carried away sometimes but not like that.

  175. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    absolutely Kennedy, but I would like a mid level outfield prospect.

  176. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Don M…dead on. I’ll be 25 on Christmas day. Can you guess what my personality is like too(outside of baseball talk?)

  177. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    how old was i before I told you.. i know some guys were thinking i was at least 45 years old

  178. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    i just moved back to this area after living in pittsburgh for 6 years through undergrad and graduate school….i moved back here on this exact day one year ago. so i enjoyed the stretch last year and this is the first full season back. so im anxious and excited to see meaningful baseball after not seeing it for so long.

  179. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    conversely, i could care less about the eagles because i lived in pittsburgh when the steelers won the superbowl and had their parade. so ive been there done that and the eagles are light years away from being close to anything like that.

    plus, i hate the nfl

  180. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Also Kyle Drybek threw 3 innings of shut out ball for the GCL Phils last night. I know he wont be here for 3-4 years but it is good to see the kid back on the mound. He was doing awesome in A ball last year before the TJ.

  181. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    whoa, I didn’t say it was likely, I just wanted to know if you would do it. I think thats kind of the point of this thread.

  182. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 1:16 pm

  183. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    you like longs walks on the beach… nestling up with a good book by the fireplace..

    I just wanted to ask to see where everyone was, because at least with my friends… we were all WAY more hyped about every move and every practice and whatever for all the philly sports teams when we were in college…

  184. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    so was i…but i was raised on hockey and baseball, never cared about the nba and the eagles were never significant at all until i left for college. im pretty calm now in comparison.

  185. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    I would’ve said Geoff and Phil to be around 25. Don, I thought you were at least 35.

  186. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    back to baseball..what are guillens numbers? isnt he a mitchell report honoree?

  187. Jeff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    i have seen so much hating on ryan howard on here the past few days. is there anyone else here who doesn’t want him to be traded and just wait for him to improve? since june 26 he’s raised his average 24 points. granted he’s still hitting in the 230s but he’s been hitting a lot better lately and he still is leading the team in rbis. as soon as he learns to get the average up and not swing at every breaking pitch (which he’s been doing a better job of as of late) he’s going to be fine. or am i the only one who wants to see him in a phils uniform?

  188. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Shawn Andrews is not at camp because he is working on his swing to take over for Ryan Howard. In addition Brian dawkins will be taking over as Catcher.

    http://www.go.espn.com/Eaglesplayingbaseball/

  189. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    I think the NFL is so huge cause its just a tradition… sunday football… its always cold outside, and your home team is always playing.

    Most people dont understand the rules of hockey, and all the nuances of baseball (the ones that make most of us love the game) turns a lot of people away and they think its too boring..

  190. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    ryan howard isnt the problem. if youre going to play moneyball and trade him you drive up the price until the winter meetings.

    youre still selling low on howard now.

  191. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Don, I wouldv’e saidearly 30’s. Geoff – late 20’s.

  192. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    yeah the nfl is more american idol-ish thats why most people like it the most. short attention span theatre.

  193. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    So with the Manny deal seeming dead as of now, is there anything exciting brewing whatsoever??

  194. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Nah I just seem old I guess. just turned 25 in april though..i’ve was a sportswriter part-time in college, and i became a baseball stats guy somehwere down the line.. I just really, really enjoy talking baseball..

    my ideal day is golf, then grill, drink beer all night, listen to music and talk about baseball.. its the greatest sport ever

    Jeff.. I honestly haven’t seen too much talk about trading Howard on here in a while… I think they should keep him and just go year-to-year with him instead of buy him out of his arbitration years.. this way if he hits .200 next year with 200+ Ks but 50 HRs… you can decide if that is helping or hurting your team and you go from there

  195. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    I wonder what the Rays are going to do… Adam Dunn doesn’t make sense to me… Jason Bay and Grabow would be a fit there, but I would REALLY like to see them make the playoffs… gotta love that underdog with talent, instead of the overpaid superstar

  196. Mike

    July 31, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Ramirez is still a possibility.

    the Phillies and Dodgers are supposedly still trying to get Ramirez with the Phillies reportedly offering Brett Myers, Jason Werth, and cash to get the guy who has been pals with Phillies manager Charlie Manuel since they both worked in Cleveland together. L.A. would supposedly include Matt Kemp in the deal. (Baseball Prospectus)

  197. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Manny to Phillies is NOT HAPPENING.

  198. J-Man

    July 31, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Man Pat Gillick sucks…The Phils aren’t said to be trading for anyone when yet we need a Lefty reliever and could use another bat…If Joe Blanton is the only player we end up trading for this year,thats sad.

  199. Mike T.

    July 31, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    tick-tick, tick-tick, tick-tick…

  200. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    I’m not underrating Howard, at all. The only reason I like the idea is because:
    A. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. The best.
    B. Howard has good production, but we could plug in a guy like Dobbs, and hes streaky, and he sucks against leftys.

    If we want to win a world series, Halladay is more valuable than Howard. Halladay could win three games in a playoff series, whereas if we were facing a staff with a couple leftys at the top (Like the Brewers or White Sox, who have two leftys out of their three best starters) the Phillies would basically be Screwed.

  201. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    No reason the Dodgers need to give up Matt Kemp for Ramirez… I wouldn’t do it if I was LA because Kemp is going to be a stud and you have him under your control for a couple years.

    Myers and Werth for Ramirez… I just decided to comment of the Dodgers first so I could re-think it…. and now, I WOULD DO THIS TRADE (but I dont think its legit that Manny goes anywhere)

    If Myers can get you something like that in return, you have to do it… and I like Werth a lot, but he’s a platoon player.. If you add Ramirez to this lineup in the #3 hole.. you have the best offense in baseball, to go with the best bullpen… and you hope and pray your rotation stays solid…. if not, you still have that money to get a starter next year

  202. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    i know how it feels now, ahem…

    WILL YOU CUT OUT THE MANNY RAMIREZ GARBAGE!!!!

  203. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Don M…After Arbitrationing Howard next year, isnt he a free agent?

  204. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I think they have Howard under control until 2011 ?? I could be wrong. but I thought it was 4 years going into this one.. in 4 years, if he continues to KILL THE BALL… but also strikeout a ton and not hit for average.. you just dont know with him.

    I think i’d rather have a player that hits .300, 35 HR, and 100 RBIs …because he would be putting the ball in play all that much more… BUT… Howard is an RBI machine and carries the team at times, especially late in the last few seasons

  205. JIM

    July 31, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Pat gillicks sleepin in today

  206. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    howards under control until 2011 when hell be, what, 31/32? thats when hell go be DH. is he has value then you flip him at the deadline that year or the year before to the AL for MAD LOOT

  207. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    or the winter meetings

  208. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Howards only got 4 yrs of service time after this year, so hes a free agent after 2010.

  209. Craig

    July 31, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I’m loving this board today

    Firstly there’s there Myers and Werth for Ramirez. Ramirez is a 2 month rental at best.

    then we’ve got someone who suggests that if we trade Howard we can plug the gap at first with GREG DOBBS.

    brilliant. keep them comming.

  210. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Yo, you need to give Blanton a little more than 1 start plus 2 innings especially since he was what something like 11 days out of pitching for his first start and only threw 2 innings in a rain delay. Basically thus far the guy has pitched ONE game. Screw the rain delay. OH and ummm ya they won both of those games. I really don’t care what a pitcher does, if he’s lucky enough to give up less runs than his team scores. Not only that, but because of his spot in the rotation, it completely boxes him out of any start in this series. The guy is fresh on a new team and he’s yet to have a decision. Putting him in the bullpen is retarded and defeats the entire purpose he came here which was to save the bullpen and be an inning eater. The moodswings of these threads are like an angry mob in the Simpsons, honestly.

    Also, 4 o’clock rolls around my prediction is no moves for the Phils. Gillick will try to pick up arms in august off waivers like he did the last few years. His history proves it.

  211. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Werth + Myers + $$ for Manny….DO IT. We will score 8-10 per game from here on out.

    We will also set a record for number of extra base hits surrendered on any balls that reach the outfield, but hey, it’ll be a fun ride.

  212. rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Craig…yeah but it Werth and Myers going to do anything that great for us this year?

    Plus Ramirez, I will take the draft picks when he leaves.

    The Dobbs thing is ridiculous though

  213. Jeff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    don, you’re probably right there has only been a little about trades. a lot of bashing him though, and i can understand to an extent. i agree that having a 300 hitter who can hit 35 hrs and drive in 100 would be ideal but those are tough to come by. without howard in the lineup we wouldn’t be where we are right now, he drives in a lot of big runs. plus lately he’s been seeing the ball a lot better.

    i’m not the biggest fan of howard, also because he’s a defensive liability. but i think unless the phils have a replacement for him he does a good job at the plate for us and he’s still improving. i would like to see him personally try to hit more for average and stop trying to kill the ball every time at the plate. hes strong enough that if he just hits the ball on the nose not trying to kill it that it will still go out.

    and is the deal with howard that they can arbitrate him every year until 2011? i wasn’t sure what the deal with him was

  214. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    I said you could plug him in, although thats not ideal. Definitely not ideal. I just don’t see us winning a WS with Hamels, Moyer and the best of Kendrick, Myers, Blanton as our top 3 starters. I can’t be the only one who feels like this.

  215. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    the only thing im worried about with blanton is the velocity dip i saw. if he gets his velocity back up next time out hell go 7-8 innings a start in the NL. he throws strike but when youre throwing them at 88 like he was they get hit.

  216. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Through 2011. That’s actually really awesome. He’s on this team until the 2012 season. Ryan Howard is what he, an RBI machine. He gets you on the board early. He inflates your score to make sure you win. Considering who he has batting around him, he is such an asset to the line up. If you put Howard on a team like the Giants or Padres where they don’t have a lot of guys on base or anyone who could protect him he’d be useless. He’d be PERFECT on the angels. When I say perfect I mean, he would make Teixera look like a pile of trash. The Angels always have guys on base.

  217. Jeff

    July 31, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    i think blanton looked a little uncomfortable. at least in the game against the mets. he didn’t look comfortable throwing his fastball and threw a lot of breaking pitches. maybe if he gets in a groove his velocity will return?

  218. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    The Red Sox would never agree to that trade. Why would they send us any additional money when moving Myers would basically be a salary dump for the Phils. I mean, its not like he would crack their rotation at this point. As for Werth, Manny the cancer is still hitting better then him in virtually every way. So basically the red sox would be getting Brett Myers (who the Phillies probably would have trouble giving away at his salary) and Werth (not as good as Manny, not signed past this year). Why would they do that?

  219. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Bottom line is the Phils JUST traded for Blanton. They’re too stubborn to do anything after that. He’s here to stay for the rest of the season and he WILL be in the rotation barring some god awful disaster (which remains to be seen). The Phillies would rather let Blanton self destruct than move him to the bullpen.

  220. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    What’s up with the negativity towards Blanton? Give the man a chance to pitch a full game or 3.

  221. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Blanton in the bullpen makes no sense, the whole reason they got him is because he eats innings.

  222. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Kennedy, shouldn’t you be writing a screenplay. And ya, that deal doesn’t seem to make any sense at all and I question where that rumor even came from. Just seems reallllllllllly stupid on the Red Sox part.

  223. J-Man

    July 31, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Kennedy-I’m right there with you there is no way in hell we will win a World Series with the rotation we have.

  224. billboby

    July 31, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    hey where is this manny werth myers rumor coming from? where on the site is that?

  225. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Where would meyers even fit in with the redsox staff? At this point he would be their worst pitcher (and one of the highest paid) and they’re supposed to give up one of the best offensive players in the game for that AND eat his salary HA.

  226. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    thatsa retarded. myers isnt being traded until after the season in my estimation. unless they get some amazing elite guy in 2 hrs then myers is still in the rotation until he implodes again. when he does that, they will move him to the bullpen and put happ in the rotation.

    if things REALLY get bad they may get an arm in a waiver-trade in august.

  227. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    they WILL get an arm in a waiver-trade in august. Nothing will happen before the deadline.

  228. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    the mets are going after luis ayala, hahaha, more junk to that scrapheap of a bullpen

  229. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    I can’t see them getting a starter off waivers this year, since even if Myers or Blanton imploded, they could plug in Happ. If they lost 2 starters, you have to figure they would call up Carrasco before they traded for anyone.

  230. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    right now id focus on getting a legitimate bat and a legitimate setup man. but tahts just me. i know theyre not getting a starter so i wont waste my typing.

    you can use the waiver-trades to get patchwork or unwanted guys. until then you gotta go for the good stuff.

  231. Mike

    July 31, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Werth Meyers deal was reported on NBCsports.com

  232. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    nbc doesnt cover baseball, they dont know what theyre talking about.

  233. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    i mean, cover it as closely as other networks

  234. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    If that is actually true (Werth/Meyers/$$ for Manny), I am embarassed.

  235. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    haha ed wade just made another bad trade

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