Two Hours Left: Eerily Quiet On The Phillies Phront – Phillies Nation

Two Hours Left: Eerily Quiet On The Phillies Phront

Two hours to go before the non-waiver trade deadline, and nothing yet.

In other news, Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports is echoing many allegations that the Manny Ramirez-to-Florida deal is dead.

Will the Phillies do anything at all before 4 p.m.?

In fact, just looking at the whole day so far, there has barely been a peep about or from the Phillies. It’s as if the Phils are silently concocting some mad plan. Maybe not, but it’s eerie how quiet it’s been over here, while at least there’s been word the Mets, Angels and A’s aren’t dealing at all.

Trades made today:

  • Rays trade two prospects for OF Jason Bay
  • Marlins trade prospect for RP Arthur Rhodes
  • White Sox trade for OF Ken Griffey Jr.
Click to comment


  1. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    this three way deal is holding up EVERYTHING else becuase it will change the trade market if it goes down. peopel are afraid to make moves while that stuff is still looming out there. it screwed up the whole trade deadline thus far.

  2. Fran

    July 31, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    I dont think the phils are gonna do anything. possiblly a cheap left handed relif pitcher

  3. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Just Pat being Pat.

  4. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Trade Werth and Myers for Manny (someone posted that rumor; can’t imagine why the Sox would do it, but hey…). Then trade Donald and someone (Golson?) for Mahay. Let Happ start. Then we get this:


    And this:


    Plus an upgraded bullpen. Yep, the rotation is rough, but if we can’t get a #1 or #2 guy, it’s not going to change. May as well get Manny and try to outscore everyone.

  5. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    This may have already been reported on here, so if so, I apologize. ESPN reports the Manny deal is just about dead.

    This would be a great time fro Gillick to hop and and get him. Take on all of his money then you dont have to give up so many prospects.

  6. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Werth and Myers for Manny? Time to wake up, Pete.

  7. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    It sounds ridiculous, but I didn’t make it up out of thin air. It was cited as a report from baseball prospectus in the last thread. The report was that the Phils offered that; no word on what the Sox said.

  8. ped

    July 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    as long as the mets and marlins aren’t improving I’m content

  9. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    And it’s not that far off…the Sox were essentially reported to be giving up Manny, 2 prospects, and cash ($2M more than what is left on Manny’s contract) to get Jason Bay.

    If that’s the return they’re looking for on that trade, Myers/Werth/cash for Manny is not out of the question.

  10. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:26 pm



  11. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    I agree with that deal. You could probably doit for Donald and Werth. They need a SS.

  12. TJ

    July 31, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Phillies arent going to do anyhing at all. You guys can speculate all you want but this team isnt going to improve drastically in the next hour and a half as to where we can take on the Cubs/Brewers in a series. We need something to go down during the offseason. Right now all we can hope for is a hot streak that the Rockies expierienced last year. Reality sucks huh?

  13. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    guess what? you cant get manny for myers and werth

  14. Brian

    July 31, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    ped: I agree. The thought of Manny going to the Marlins is scary, but if it doesn’t go down and the 3 teams stay where they are the Phils still have a great shot at the NL East. If they update to just some kind of LH reliever, good for us.

    Geoff: your right, this stupid 3 way deal is taking over the trade deadline and no one wants to pull the trigger on anything.

    Did anyone hear anything about Lohse possibly being traded?

  15. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    I have a feeling something big is going down for the Phils by 3pm. Just a gut feeling.

  16. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    no one is saying no, Tom, but the proposal is ridiculous. Why would the Bosox go from getting Bay and Grabow to Werth and Myers for Manny? A backup 29-year old OF and a guy who can’t keep his ERA under 4.50. There is absolutely no validity to this rumor and it’s foolish to take it seriously.

  17. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    No one is saying no, Tom. It’s just retarded for the Red Sox (who don’t make moves like the Phillies make moves). Obviously if the Red Sox agreed it would be sweet, but they aren’t that dumb and they aren’t sellers. This is a unique situation between the Red Sox and Manny. You clearly have no idea how to gauge plausibility through ruuuumoooorrs.

  18. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    theyd better be or else well be really pissed at them

  19. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    hey, Rob, no copying off my paper! j/k…looks like we think keenly alike.

  20. Tim Malcolm

    July 31, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Yeah, all Myers needs is to be able to walk around on Boylston Street again.


  21. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    hahahaha good one Tim. Myers makes sense for the Red Sox. Money isn’t an issue with them, and they could use a set up man.

  22. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Ha, ya nutty. Tom you must be a mets fan.

  23. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Ha, ya nutty. Tom you must be a mets fan judging how uneducated that comment was.

  24. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    what’s wrong with Okajima, Phil?

    and even if we assume Boston has interest in Myers, why would they trade manny for him? it would be like the Phils trading Burrell for Wakefield. zero sense.

  25. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    don’t know why that posted twice

  26. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    come one, Rob, that’s just uncalled for. if anybody is uneducated it would have to be the Red Sox for merely considering this trade.

  27. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    nah die hard phils fan rob … first off that 3 team deal died not bc of bosox but bc of pirates not giving up prospects…

  28. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    i dont see anything about the astros, what did they do

  29. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    what uneducated comment…all iv heard the past couple days is manny shouldnt come hear he would disrupt this team shut the fuck up…if the deal wasa myers werth and whoever for manny is a no brainer i am just pointing out if some1 didn’t like that i would seriously consider there mental health

  30. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    There are no trades happening… whats the holdup..

    I think the Manny 3-way got shot down because the Pirates didn’t want to lose Bay for Hermida and a prospect in return?

    MLBTR sucks the past few days in my opinion.. they kept reposting crap that we already heard 30 times , and every time the chance of a Manny trade goes from 1% to 3%…they update the page… meanwhile they dont say why any trades will or won’t happen

  31. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    and the fact that you jus called me a muts fan is a disgraceful

  32. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    exactly PIRATES didnt like what tjhey were getting…bosox liked what they were gettin you fuckin idiot

  33. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    i concur. the manny trade is the big distraction. i think its causing the lack of activity so far.

    yeah the pirates killed it because they werent getting enough in return for bay/grabow.

    mlbtr updates the frigging manny thing every 5 seconds.

  34. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    The fact you would merely point out that anyone WOULDN’T like it is asinine. It’s besides the point. OF COURSE anyone would take it, I could just as easily offer up So Taguchi and Geoff Jenkins for Matt Holliday and call anyone retarded for not wanting that deal except ummmm it would never happen so why don’t you stop being such a girl and put some insight into a comment before you waste your time.

  35. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    that trade looking lopsided in favoor of boston actually, but thats just me.

    i also think the RIDICULOUS prices placed on a lot of players has to do with this too.

  36. TJ

    July 31, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    You guys dont know why the deal died and who was at fault. You are just basing your opinion off a couple of writers who said about 18 hours ago that the Boston- Florida deal was just about done. Its all speculation, until something happens or some league/team official comments on something you guys have no idea why it died. Just the fact that some reporter thought that it was a certain reason and this trade deadline they have been wrong about 90% wrong.

  37. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    you’re right, Geoff, but the reason these prices are so high is because selling teams want bonafide prospects. they won’t settle for less because they’ll get 1st or 2nd round draft picks when the player signs with a new team as a free agent this winter, which is a nice reward for staying patient and holding the line.

  38. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Geoff, I 100% agree with you, and I said that last night on the board in another post. If I were the Marlins I’d just cut out Boston and give the prospects up for Bay and Grabow.

  39. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    new rumor, myers, ruiz and ruben amaro jr. for manny, varitek and cash. don’t anybody flame me, it was reported as fact on some random mets blog i found on the internet.

  40. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Next person that tells somebody else on here to shut the F up ….

  41. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    loves the cock

  42. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    its really not that out of the line…they want to dump manny they get werth who kills lefties they get myers whoever knows what he can do and you get a prospect…rob your being a dousche just for me pointing out shit…shut the fuck up

  43. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    i know its not gonna happen but sometime in my lifetime the phils are going to make a blockbuster move …. prolly not this year

  44. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    We should trade Schilling to the Diamondbacks for a new firstbaseman, like Travis Lee… and we need a lefty, so we ask them to throw in Omar Daal too

    that would be sweeeeat!

  45. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    we have a winner, Don.

  46. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I concur that the trade somewhat makes sense, I just don’t think it’s going to happen. V-tek and Boston’s pitching coach could probably work miracles for Myers.

  47. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    haha you love cooock

  48. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    how did ed wade not get IMMEDIATELY fired for that trade? IMMEDIATELY…

  49. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    see me.. im only half-gay.. but Tom, he LOVES the cock, he eats it up

    (Don M does not endores the notion that Tom may or may not “eat it up,” he simply fell in line of cursing at others.) (Even if that were his true lifestyle choice, there is nothing wrong with that.)

  50. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    phils grip there prospects anyway so this specualtion is a waste of time…it makes not sense the phils will trade good prospects for shitty players but wont trade prospects for good players

  51. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Yeah Kennedy…Baseball Prospectus is equivalent to “some random mets blog.” Blow me.

    The Sox clearly want to dump Manny. Let me say it again – they were reported to be happy trading Manny, 2 prospects, and $9MM to get Jason Bay. Based on that, trading Werth and Myers for Manny is a steal for the Sox (based on where they apparently value Manny). If the Sox view it as an addition by subtraction thing, it’s not surprising that Manny could be had for less than we might think.

  52. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Don’t get your hopes up, Tom. Unless the Phillies have ONE owner with a set of nuts you will never see a blockbuster. The franchise has never given you a reason to have a hope to begin with. The Phillies have never been a deadline team and won’t be the way their management works. I WANT them to be, but I’m just so over it at this point. Time to be realistic and quit with the whole tantrum bull dude just because you made a stupid comment and I said something about it.

  53. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Pat is asleep at the wheel…the phils need to make a move that will allow Happ into the Rotation.

    Tim…I was about to send a comment like yours. I am pretty sure boston wants absolutely no part of Brett “I cant keep my hands to myself” Myers.

  54. nutty professor

    July 31, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    If you really think the Red Sox believe they’d improve their team for 2008 by trading Manny and getting Werth and Myers you are clearly delusional. We may think Werth is a stud and Myers has great potential, but I bet every other team thinks Myers is a headcase, injury prone hack and Werth is nothing more than a platoon player with limited skills. Get over it.

  55. Tom

    July 31, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    1 more hour and i guess we will know

  56. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    How did we get nothing for Rolen, Schilling, or Abreu ???? this is why, this is why, this is why we dont win world series titles

  57. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    We got Polanco for Rolen, and all Polanco did was block Utley.

  58. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    thats exactly right. that was ed wade AND mike arbuckles bad scouting. you look at those three trades, it almost looks like intentional failure….

  59. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    And getting Thome was retarded because we blocked Howard who could have broken the all time home run record if he came up when he was 23.

  60. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Gavin….Hear Anything

  61. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    we shoudlve won a world series with the prospects gotten frmo those three trades.

    thats why they need all new scouts if they havent already done that. arbucklle needs fired too. like, now

  62. bull

    July 31, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    How about beltre and ibanez from the mariners

    “Pedro Feliz was diagnosed with a disc bulge in his back on Thursday.

    He had an MRI on his back Wednesday, and got an epidural injection on Thursday. He won’t participate in baseball activities until next week at the earliest, and might not be ready to come off the disabled list on August 9, when he’s eligible.”

  63. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Everyone knew Utley and Howard were studs in AA. Why did they block them? RETARDS!!! Just imagine what kind of records the both of them would have broken if they came up in adequate time? Just imagine how much better they would be right now if we brought them up early. Thank you Ed Wade, you piece of shit.

  64. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    August 9th isn’t far away. I’m not wirried about it.

  65. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    all Polanco did was give the Phillies a GREAT reason to move him to 3rd, which they didn’t and then they decided to send him to Detroit where he hits like .340.

  66. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    ryan howard was ready to come up when they got jim thome in the first place. it was a pointless move to begin with

  67. bull

    July 31, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    who needs a leadoff or 2 hole hitter to get on base all the time?

  68. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Polanco didnt want to play 3rd…also Bulging Disks suck, this could be more serious then you think

  69. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    and they traded him for a criminal that tried to murder like 6 people as soon as he went home for the offseason.

  70. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Polanco was a GREAT 2-hitter here.. he just didn’t want to play 3b… we got Mike Timlin too who was awesome everywhere but here

    what did trade Padilla for?

  71. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I saw someone in the Parking lot Sunday, with a Urbina Phils Jersey. I was in awe

  72. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Yeah, Polanco should have been our 3B…but we traded in a quixotic effort to “buy” at the deadline when we never really had a shot to win. Still, Wade’s work at the deadline this year make his moves with the Phillies seem sensible in comparison

  73. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Oh ya and who did the Phillies get for Polanco? Anyone?

    A guy named Ugueth Urbina… looked like a good trade for a season until he went on a murderous rampage in Venezuela. Oh ya, he was a free agent after his first season anyway and who is still playing for the Tigers, Placido Polanco.

  74. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Haha, Urbina was a head case apparently.

  75. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    you think for a second Polanco would be the type of guy to refuse to play everyday at 3rd base? No, you’re wrong, and he’s the last guy to pull a Manny and become a cancer because he’s not happy.

  76. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    im pretty sure that ed wade still is the worst GM in pro sports ever. its gonna be really hard to do any worse.

    then he kciks his big comeback off by trading brad lidge for michael bourn, geary, and costanzo. HAHAHAHAHAHA

  77. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    They signed Thome because they wanted to have a superstar to sell to Season Tickets when they opened the new stadium.. so they could generate more money, and then increase payroll…. it worked, but Tom Glavine would have been better cause maybe we could have made the playoffs in 2005 or 2006 too

  78. Todd

    July 31, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    I had a bulging disc in my back when I played college baseball, it goes away with rest and a few specific exercises/stretches. Will only take a few weeks and you feel great afterwards. Feliz should be fine.

  79. Doug

    July 31, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Until this team starts playing consistently up to potential, I think it’s worthless to start trading away future big-leaguers for win-now pieces.

    I just hope that when the time does come when we have a solid, performing team with the pieces in place (’09 or ’10), the front office makes the necessary moves to add an ace to form a power 1-2 with Hamels.

  80. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    One thing that makes me think that Pat Gillick is brewing something up is that there are a lot of teams that are being talked about as not doing anything and that won’t do anything, so maybe he is up to something, but it’s being kept a secret. A man can dream, can’t he?

  81. scot

    July 31, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Rob, it’s actually true. One main reason Palonco is gone is that he didn’t want to witch the 3rd base.

  82. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:11 pm


  83. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Pat Gillick must be in a coma.

  84. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    The Rays knew they had to make a move to compete with the Angel’s in the ALCS.

  85. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    Ok, the trades will start flying now. they killed the 3 way trade now its time to deal. FINALLY.

  86. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    YES, a secret trade by gillick maybe???

  87. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Is that official?

  88. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Pete, I didn’t specifically mention the baseball prospectus post, my point was that I wouldn’t believe Manny and Cash for Werth and Myers unless I saw it, and by saw it I mean a team official said it was a done deal. Anyone who thinks that deal was a possibility needs to stop being a retard, Bay has more value than Werth and most teams in baseball wouldn’t take Myers if the Phils offered him FOR FREE. He earns 12 million next year. To give you an example of how dumb you sound for even suggesting that deal, look at the Washburn situation. Washburn has been much much better than Myers (2.67 era in july, 2.93 era in June), earns only 10 mil next year, and the Yankees are refusing to offer Seattle anything but cash. Not one prospect. Myers had a 6.67 era in june and spent most of july in the minors, so what makes you think he has value. Besides being retarded.

  89. philsphan

    July 31, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Bay to the Rays must mean the Manny to Marlins deal is officially dead. This also means Werth won’t go to Tampa!

  90. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Rob…I am not attacking the guys attitude, Christ I have a Polanco Tigers jersey. I am just saying he told the team he did not like playing third. The team saw an oppurtunity to get, at the time killer(had to take the jab) reliever, for a player who was blocking a stud. They had to do it.

    Looking back if I were the fornt office, I would of said “Hey Polanco, have 2 million more and enjoy 3rd base”

  91. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Great for the Rays and ‘good’ for the Bucs but everyone knows how their deals turn out…

  92. Darren Daulton

    July 31, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Breaking News:

    Geoff has traded his name to the Royals in exchange for a J

  93. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Wow, we coulda had Bay for Donald and Happ. The Rays gave up less than that.

  94. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Yep….Pat didnt even call them. he called for nady i think but not for bay

    again, asleep at the wheel, again, now this starts another argument, again.

  95. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    unless hes doing something else

  96. Groty

    July 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Pirates got there SS, so if not giving up Donald was holding up something for Grabow….

    Hell, I’ve been reading way too much baseball stuff today.

  97. Gary B

    July 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    What about the o? Is that included in the deal? Or is that involved in a three way deal with the BoSox?

  98. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    jack wilson will be traded soon.

  99. Eb

    July 31, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Great trade for the Bucs, Brienac is a stud who needs a little more seasoning. The pitcher doesnt seem half bad

  100. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    We shoulda been giving up Donald, Happ, and someone else for Bay and Grabow, but Gillick is a dumb ass.

  101. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    That SS, Reid Brignac was ranked #25 going into this season… the same rankings that have Carrasco at #68 has him at #10 (#1 overall SS)… they have Carrasco at #9 though

    Jeff Niemann.. was ranked #57 there too…

    I know that doesn’t count for much, but Jason Donald wasn’t going to cut it for them at SS, and not sure what pitcher you wanted to give up for Bay, but im guessing that even Donald and Savery wouldn’t have gotten it done..

    So again, how was Gillick sleeping on this one?

  102. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Gillick is more than asleep Don M…he’s in a fucking coma.

  103. Jeff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    no one can beat the rays when it comes to prospects. they’ve been the worst team for i don’t even know how many years now. they have a monopoly on players with high potential

  104. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    I’d love us to have gone after Bay but where would he play? Burrell and Vic are your everyday guys and like it or not Jenkins is not going anywhere and the FO expect to get more out of him. Unless you want to use Jayson Werth as bait some of you are just getting your hopes up for no reason, we wern’t going to trade for an outfielder today period.

  105. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    i will be satisfied if they tell me that he was offered to the pirates and the pirates went for the better shortstop.

    ill be ok with that. just say taht you called them. they wanted the best shortstop, then fine so be it.

  106. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    35 minutes left. I am going to walk away from my computer for 15 minutes and see if anything happens. I doubt it will.

  107. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    just send out amaro to lie and say that theey called, thatll at least calm me down a little bit.

  108. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    They are plugging that pitcher right into the rotation, and that SS will probably start for them next year.

    If they wanted to give us Bay, we need to get Werth and Jenkins out cause neither of them would ever see playing time.

    Donald is not close to MLB ready.. and I thought everyone wanted Happ in the rotation??

    Yea the Rays are stacked with good young players…and then they are stacked with top prospects behind that

  109. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    i do want happ.

    if it were me, it wouldve been carlos carrasco, jason donald, and antonio bastardo or greg golson

    the pirates obviously are trading jack wilson, because they went for an elite SS prospect

  110. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    they’ve inquired about every single star player out there so far.. why wouldn’t they have checked in on Bay..?

  111. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    because its the phillies don. they do stupid things liek that. thats why theyve only ever won one championship and they piss us off so much.

  112. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    aah, jason bay is not really any kind of improvement over Werth. Especially considering that Bay can’t hit Lefty pitchers this year. If you check out the numbers, if Werth and Bay had 100 at bats, Bay would get on 1 or 2 more times on average. And the power numbers are close. There wouldn’t be a significant enough improvement to send prospects.

  113. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Kennedy, you are a fucking idiot. Upthread, while calling me a retard, you said:

    “Anyone who thinks that deal was a possibility needs to stop being a retard, Bay has more value than Werth.”

    Now, you say “jason bay is not really any kind of improvement over Werth.” Which one is it, douche?

    In fact, you are right the second time: Bay isn’t much of a step up from Werth. Which is why BP’s reported Sox/Phils trade makes sense.

    I have never seen anyone on this board so blatantly contradict themselves in the span of half an hour.

  114. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    haha, I contradicted myself? I fully agree Jayson Bay has more value than Werth, just not much more. You were a retard because you thought Myers had value. Retard

  115. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    you guys are both retards… continue your flirting later, in private

  116. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Olney just said that the Phillies have given up on getting a lefty reliever and are going to stand pat with the team they have at this point.

    I hate trade deadline day. Its always anticimactic when you’re a Phillies fan.

  117. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I come back to this…

    2:39pm: Buster Olney says the Phillies will probably come up empty on a lefty reliever.

  118. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    ESPN’s reporting the Phills are coming up empty in the search for reliever which is no surprise. I have a lot of good things to say about Gillicks tenure here but he does seem to be marching to the sound of his own drum. He’s been lucky with Dobbs and Werth and made a good deal with Lidge/Bruntlett but the Garcia/Jenkin’s/Rhodes/Alfonseca moves and coming up empty when he’s trying to make a deal really does smell of someone who’s a step behind everyone else.

  119. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Sorry Don, didn’t mean to interrupt your “special time” with Geoff.

    Myers has value to any team that doesn’t care about payroll and needs a set-up guy. I.e., the Red Sox.

  120. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    good old stand pat…theyre going to sell it to us that joe blanton was their big move, obviously.

  121. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    I hear Dennis Cook is still available.

  122. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Does anyone refute that there is no team in baseball that would take Myers for free? Keep in mind, he makes 12 million next year

  123. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    2:43pm:’s Jonathan Mayo says there is no done deal – the Rays might not make Brignac available.

    Get on that Gillick.

  124. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    why did golson get pulled then? i guess that was bull

  125. Gavin

    July 31, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Pat forgot to charge his cell phone overnight.

  126. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Very true Geoff, I like Blanton but we gave up the wrong prospects and are going to misuse him. When your going head to head with Beane and are going to meet his asking price you better have something up your sleeve if you want to make some other moves, clearly all that’s up Gillicks sleeve is his farewell wave.

  127. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Apology accepted Pete..

  128. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    10 minutes and counting, what will the Phillies get? I’m putting $50 on nothing.

  129. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    yes, Gillick trade the farm for an outfielder who will get on base 1.5% more often than the guy we already have and can’t hit leftys. Thats such an ed wade move.

  130. KM

    July 31, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    there is nothing to speculate about, the phillies will do, and have done what they do every year — they pick up a marginal pitcher (“innings eater” is how they ALWAYS spin it), and maybe, just maybe they will dumpster-dive and pick up a player along the lines of pete laforrest after the non-waiver trade deadline. basically they will pick up someone who won’t effect payroll, and won’t make the playoff roster if the phillies even make the post season.

    i dont know how u can say bay wouldn’t be an improvement to werth, bay is a stud who hits .280+ with 30+ homers, 90+ rbis, with 10-20 steals every year for a bad team, while werth has NEVER had number comparable in any season in the majors — and he is younger than werth. if bay played in this lineup, in this ballpark, he would have numbers like . 280/35hr/115rbi/20sb. werth is best used as a 4th outfielder who can play all 3 positions, and pinch hit and run, lets not get ahead of ourselves and anoint jayson werth (who was originally signed to be a 5th outfielder on this team, in an organization where they always overvalue their players) as the next roberto clemente.

  131. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    even the red sox aren’t paying 12 million a year to a slightly above average rh reliever who is conditioned for starting right now. If the red sox were that desperate, they could offer the Royals 12 Million in Cash for Mahay, and it would still be a better deal for them then this. Pete, you continue to be a retard.

  132. NEPA

    July 31, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Well today was uneventful, not just for Phillies but basically across the board. Yea, there’s 7 minutes left but I’ll take my chances and step away from the computer/TV for the first time today. My focus is back on the actual season and going for tonight’s sweep.

  133. Phil

    July 31, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Yeah Nepa. Hopefully they crush Lannan for putting Utley out of commission last year.

  134. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Like I said… no dice. So when are the Phillies going to get desperate? Next season, the season after? Gillick is “standing pat” on a team that might not even make the playoffs this year, and he’ll tell you that the Phillies are 100% committed to winning. Pshhhh ya ok.

  135. Adam

    July 31, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Has this team ever made a big move up against the wall at the trade deadline?

    So we can thank Gillick for our 1 move being Joe Blanton, a guy with a 5-12 record and 5.9 era coming into the phils rotation and his numbers have actually gotten worse thus far. After this move Gillick announced that the phils are not done dealing. He obviously didnt mean that they will make a move before the trade deadline. Perhaps he meant the organization will make more moves period at some point in time in the future. Could be 2010. Their refusal to spend any money on one player is like a repeated knee in the stomach.

    Every single good player on this team was not acquired in a trade (utley, howard, hamels, rollins). So my question then is…what has this management done for the team in terms of personel moves?

  136. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 3:59 pm


  137. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    KM, are you saying Bay is the next Roberto Clemente? At this point in the season, guys are probably going to continue on the same path they are on. That means Bay would be an extremely marginal improvement over Werth this year. He would also probably hit two or so hrs more than werth in an equal number of abs over the remainder of the season. Woop de fucking do. I’d rather spend on a lefty reliever then a marginally better of.

  138. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Annnnnnnnnd it’s over.

  139. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    What a fucking buzz kill.

  140. Rick

    July 31, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Is this the first time they’ve faced Lannan since he broke Chase’s hand?

  141. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    On Baseball Tonight they’ll have “Trade Deadline Winners and Losers”. The Phils should be on the the fucking top of the losers list.

  142. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    one of the worst trade deadlines i can ever remember. nothign happened that was major.

    the real deals happened WEEKS ago.

  143. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Agreed Geoff,

    Especially since this was a year that the Phillies actually had chips to push. Why make any moves at all if Blanton remains the only one. They might as well have called up Happ and been done with it instead of wasting our time with “A trade is possible”. Too many people take that as Gillick saying, oh ya we have a lot in the works, instead of him just pacifying fans when he really has nothing in the works.

  144. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    exactly. pacifying people. thats what IT is all about. tell them what they want to hear.

  145. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    So I’m curious,

    How exactly does the next deadline work? Like waivers and all that crap. Anyone care to share?

  146. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    someone gets waived and has to pass through waivers, if they do, they can be traded. if someone claims them then im sure theres compensation of some sort.

  147. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    So a player on waivers usually sucks i would assume.

  148. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Kennedy, let me try to break this down verrrrryyyy slllllloooowwwwllllyyyyy for you, so you can understand it. Here are two deals for the Red Sox to consider:

    1st Deal:
    They give – Manny, 2 prospects, and $9MM
    They get – Jason Bay (marginally better than Werth, according to you, but by such a small amount it doesn’t really affect their trade value)

    2nd Deal:
    They give – Manny
    They get – Werth, Myers, cash

    The “cash” that BP reported in the deal is clearly there to offset at least part of Myers’ salary that you keep bitching about. So, unless you think that Myers is so terrible that even having him on your team will outweigh keeping 2 prospects (and $9MM), then the Sox should take the 2nd deal. Even if the Phils didn’t throw in cash, then you’re talking about Myers costing $3MM (the Sox save the 9MM from the Bay trade) and allowing the Sox to hold onto 2 prospects.

    Only someone absolutely blinded by hate for Myers would say the Sox are better off with the first trade. But that’s OK, if you keep calling me a retard, your half-assed argument will look better. I promise.

  149. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    or someone they dont want to pay. lohse was horrible last year until they cut him and traded him to us for a bad prospect.

    thats why the real chance to become a contender for anything other than the division has come and gone.

  150. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Players on waivers are underperforming (usually significantly) relative to what they are getting paid. Washburn, for example, is a lock to go through waivers.

  151. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    I love people who still argue after the trade deadline is over just because they are pissed and want to have the last word. It’s over dude, let it go.

  152. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    maddux will be waived.

  153. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:20 pm


    theyll get some waiver-wire reject. probably two or three of them actually.

    i forgot how long it takes before they start waiving people, a week or so? i cant remember

  154. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    maybe right away, becuase thye got lohse after 4pm didnt they?

  155. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    maybe right away, becuase thye got lohse on the same day or the next day

  156. Rob

    July 31, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    So maddux declines a trade to Philadelphia, but if he’s waived, can (not that they would) the Phils claim him off waivers? Or does he still have a say in the matter even if he gets waived.

  157. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    i dont know. that would be funny though, right?

  158. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Any news on Bay? Sounds like the deal fell through although LA might have tried to ressurect the threeway

  159. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Geoff, you’re bashing the shit out of the Phils’ front office, yet you don’t even know how waivers work? Wow. And next I ask you this, since the Phils FO is “asleep at the wheel” (you should trademark that phrase)…what did Florida or the Mets do to bolster their teams before the deadline? Arthur Fucking Rhodes? Come on. The Phils aren’t the big losers you like to think they are. They can win the division without being forced to make moves.

  160. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    I need to brush up on waivers i forgot, yes.

    but heres all i need to say: 1) they did nothing

    2) anyone they get is someone whos basically being CUT!

  161. Georgie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    I remember when Citizens Bank Park first opened, people were saying how it was going to be tough to get good pitchers to come to the Phillies, and that the Phils would have to overpay to sign anyone good.Well, maybe that’s part of the problem, CBP no doubt has gotten a reputation among pitchers-if you want your ERA to go up real fast, just pitch a few innings in Phila. And let’s face it, Phils FO is NEVER going to overpay for anything(knowingly). So I’m wondering if we are permanently screwed in the pitching dept.? Someone like Myers, who is already a head case, can probably go over the edge thinking about all the HRs he’ll give up here.
    Holy crap, most of you guys are young enough to be my sons, wait until you’re my age(54), or better yet, my dad’s age(86) and still have only seen 1 baseball championship, no Superbowls, and an occasional Stanley Cup. Yet I still follow them all, bitch about them every day, and follow blogs like this one. It’s an addiction, and I don’t care! Soon time for DNL on Comcast, where I can commiserate even more.

  162. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    A no trade clause means that they cannot do anything with Maddux besides release him without his permission.

    And Pete, the deal you thought up or believed or whatever is still retarded, because the Phillies have would be taking on too much salary, and Red Sox fans would see it as trading Manny straight up for Werth. Why would the Phillies agree to pay Manny 6m for the rest of the year, pay the Red Sox 9m, and send away Werth, who is basically free. It doesn’t really make sense for either team. Retard. That would basically be 15m, plus 1 year of Jayson Werth at arbitration prices, for 60 games with Manny. Thanks, but thats retarded.

  163. NJ

    July 31, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    The Mets have really let the Phils off the hook, we have to capitalise on that immediately. Very surprised Minaya didn’t acquire an outfielder.

  164. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    The Waivers system works like this, in a nutshell to those of you who don’t know. Unlike what Geoff is suggesting, players aren’t “waived” in the traditional sense that the team cuts ties with them. The Phils could put Ryan Howard on the waiver list (they can put up to 7 players a day on waivers). They still own and control the player. That player is essentially on “waivers” for 48 hours, and other teams within that division can select them. In other words, if the Phils put Brett Myers on waivers, any other NL team (in reverse order depending on record) can claim him. Then, once a team claims him, the Phils and that team have another 48 hours to work out a trade. If it falls through, the Phils can put him back on waivers for another 48 hours, etc. At any time, the Phils can pull the player back off of waivers. This is usually done if a team tries to block a trade. For instance, if the Padres tried trading Maddux to the Mets, any team in the NL with a worse record could block it by claiming Maddux. In other words, the Marlins could claim him. If that happened, either the Marlins could work out a deal with the Padres, the Padres could take Maddux off of waivers, or they could wash their hands of Maddux altogether and give him away (for nothing) to the Marlins. If a player clears waivers in that league (nobody takes him), then it goes to the opposite league, where the same process takes place. If the player clears waivers there, then the team (Padres) could do any kind of trade imagineable that they wanted to do with him with any team they choose. Hope this helps.

  165. Geoff

    July 31, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    thanks for cvlearing that up. its still not as promising as the normal trade process. but i hope they get at least someone to help in ANY way.

    they have to hope now, because they failed to act.

  166. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    The Pirates look like they’ve gotten shafted again. Manny to LAD, Bay to BOS, and the centerpiece of the deal, Moss, goes to PIT along with three others.

  167. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Well, I see we’ve backed off of the claim that the Werth/Myers/Manny trade would be bad from the Red Sox point of view, seeing as how they JUST MADE the “1st Deal” as I described it above. Now, from the Phillies point of view, I never said they’d be paying 9MM. Please learn to read. The Sox would in effect have saved 9MM, because that is what the Marlins required to take Manny.

    Why would the Phillies do the trade? Because Manny > Werth by a large margin. Having Manny gives them the best offense in baseball. Having Manny gives them a legitimate shot at a deep playoff run, rather than the hope that they can hold on to the division down the stretch. Let’s say the Phils agreed to give the Sox half of Myers’ salary next year (Manny vs. Myers this year is already to the Sox advantage from a salary-dump perspective). That’s $6MM, plus the additional amount owed to Manny above what’s owed to Myers (let’s be generous and call it $2MM, for $8MM total cash coughed up by the Phils). Does it make sense to pay $8MM to put the best offense in baseball on the field for the stretch run? YES.

    You. Are. A. Complete. Fucking. Idiot. Stop posting, you’re embarassing yourself.

  168. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    You’d be surprised at how many “excellent” trades have been made over the years with big names after the non-waiver deadline. The new deadline now is August 31 for waiver trades. I can think of several trades – David Cone, Jose Canseco, Jeff Kent, Jamie Moyer, etc were all traded through waiver trades in the past 10-15 years. And you can bash Moyer all you want, but the guy has 240 wins…there’s not many pitchers around with that many right now.

  169. Don M

    July 31, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Know your waiver rules
    By Jayson Stark
    Updated: August 16, 2004
    Warning from the surgeon general: Trying to make sense of baseball’s waiver system can be hazardous to your mental health.

    There are all kinds of waivers for all different occasions. But essentially, here is how waiver deals can be made between Aug. 1 and the Aug. 31 deadline for setting potential playoff rosters:

    Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month, whether a team intends to trade that player or not. If nothing else, the sheer volume of names can at least disguise players whom clubs do want to sneak through so they can be dealt.

    If a player isn’t claimed by any team in either league, he can be traded until the end of the month to anyone.

    If a player is claimed, but only by one team, the player can be traded only to the team that claims him.

    If a player is claimed by more than one team, the club with the worst record in that player’s league gets priority — and the player can be traded only to that team.

    If a player is claimed only by teams in the other league, the club with the worst record in the other league gets priority — and the player can be traded just to that team.

    If a deal can’t be worked out or the team doesn’t want to trade that player, he can be pulled back off waivers once in August. If he is placed on waivers again before September, he can’t be recalled a second time.

    Or, if a team is just hoping to dump a player’s salary, it can simply allow a team which claimed that player to have him for a small waiver fee. If that happens, the team that gets the player has to pay his entire salary. That’s how the Yankees were stuck with Jose Canseco and the Padres were stuck with Randy Myers in recent years: They claimed those players, thinking they were just blocking other teams from getting them. Instead, their old clubs said: “You claimed him. You got him.”

    In the past, many teams claimed players just to keep them from being traded to contenders with a better record. This year, that isn’t expected to happen as often, because most teams can’t afford to get stuck with a big contract if they’re awarded a player they really didn’t want.

  170. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Randy Myers was another one that was a snafu. The Blue Jays wanted to trade him, but the Padres snapped him up preventing him from going to a competitor. He sucked for them, and in the end, the Pads were on the hook for the rest of his salary. Manny was waivered in 2003 but nobody took him because they were scared of his salary at the time. Tony Batista was waivered by Toronto in 2001, but the Orioles worked out a deal and he ended up being very productive for them. So, no, Geoff, they’re not all bums that are available through waivers.

  171. Jamie

    July 31, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Oh, I forgot to mention that another little trick is to do a trade for a “player to be named later.” That helps get around waiver issues as well.

  172. Schoolyard

    July 31, 2008 at 5:01 pm


  173. Kennedy

    July 31, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Pete, why would the Red Sox do that trade when they could get Bay for Manny, a garbage reliever, and a corner outfielder without major league power. So they could get a 6m dollar Brett Myers. Want the best evidence your trade was retarded. It never happened.

  174. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Oh, you’ve got me there. Because every trade that happens is a win/win brilliant move for both teams. Like that sweet haul we got for Curt Schilling back in the day. Clearly not a “retarded” trade….because it HAPPENED!!

    Find a different straw to grasp jackass

  175. Pete

    July 31, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Oh yeah, that Brandon Moss sure sucks. .295/.337/.462 in limited action this year. And he’s 24. Don’t want that on my team – no way! As for Hansen, his stats are unimpressive now, but he’s young with raw ability. No huge loss, I suppose, but more than they’d have given up to get Werth and Myers.

    But let’s really break your logic down. Just take Myers out of the trade. Then you have Manny for Werth even up. If Werth = Bay, then the Sox make out better with us than with the LA/Pitt three-way, because they keep Moss and Hansen.

  176. Schoolyard

    July 31, 2008 at 6:00 pm


  177. Kennedy

    August 1, 2008 at 2:09 am

    You’re forgetting the fact that Jason Bay is a name, whereas Jayson Werth is not. Thats what made this trade acceptable to the Red Sox. Just because hes marginally better Werth, I didn’t think it would be a good idea for the Phils to ship prospects for him. You are also assuming that the Red Sox FO is as bad as the Phils, but I think all the evidence would show that they are actually a pretty competent bunch. You are dreaming if you think the Sox would do Manny for Werth straight up. Moss is heavily overrated, and Hansen will never be anything but a bottom of the bullpen reliever, his WHIP is awful. I don’t really see Moss as an everyday outfielder. He has never really shown power that I would project him into a guy who will hit more than 10 homers a season, or have good enough discipline to be a great OBP guy. Not a terrible prospect, but nothing the Red Sox don’t have plenty of.

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