Phillies Leaning Toward Moises Alou – Phillies Nation

Phillies Leaning Toward Moises Alou

Jim Salisbury reports the Phillies are interested in outfielder Moises Alou, as they continue searching for a right-handed bench bat.

Alou, 42, is a great hitter for his career, with a .303 AVG, 332 HR and 1,287 RBI. But he’s perenially hurt, and hasn’t played a full season since 2004. Last season he only played 15 games for the Mets.

Word is Alou wants a significant amount of playing time, and might be looking more at deals from American League clubs who need some DH work. From the Phillies’ end, it’s not so much a risk since Alou would be used as a fifth outfielder and bench bat, but he’d be expensive for that role.



  1. Tyler

    January 23, 2009 at 9:00 am

    I don’t like this idea if it costs more than 1.5 M

  2. Joe O'Phillie

    January 23, 2009 at 9:09 am

    No thanks.

  3. Evan

    January 23, 2009 at 9:09 am

    On one hand the Phils could use a righty on the bench. On the other hand Moises Alou is old as dirt and spends more time on the DL than actually playing. Is there no one better?

  4. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 9:15 am


  5. Stuart

    January 23, 2009 at 9:18 am

    No way. this would be a joke

  6. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 9:19 am

    Names of interest: Nomar Garciaparra, Moises Alou, Mark Grudzielanek, Rich Aurilia, and Kevin Millar.

  7. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 9:20 am

    MLB Network, and SI writer Tom Verducci (did I get his name right?) said that the Phillies are THE team interested in Nomar Garciaparra.. and that both Ruben Amaro and Charlie Manuel have spoken with him, and offered him the job of RH-bench bat, utility man if he wants it.

    So if he doesn’t retire, we might see Nomar, who I’d rather have than Alou… but if Nomar either retires, or decides to stay with the Dodgers (because he lives in LA)… what better options are there for the Phillies than Moises Alou ?

    Lets hope for Nomar, if that doesn’t work out, take the next best option

  8. Chuck P

    January 23, 2009 at 9:24 am

    I would take a flyer on Nomar or Alou… if the price was right. Alou made $7.5 million in each of the past two seasons and Nomar made $8.5-9.5 million. They would have to take huge pay cuts to play and I don’t know if those guys would be eager to do that at this point in their careers.

  9. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 9:36 am

    For Alou and Nomar, its basically take HUGE pay cuts and/or minor league incentive deals or retire, so I really dont think those guys have much of a choice if they want to play. Nomar would be good for contact, as would alou. but nomar is hurt less than Alou, plus…I dont of would rather have a 35 year old guy that gets hurt a lot than a 42 year old guy that gets hurt a lot. but those batting averages look nice…nomar a former batting champ who needs to rediscover his form and alou a long time solid contact guy

  10. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 9:37 am

    Millar’s average has dropped to the point of no return, and he doesn’t really hit LHP all that great at all.. pass on him unless all else fails (Career .214 PinchHitter, .275 vs LHP overall )

    Rich Aurilia would fit nicely, and hits LHP well, but I heard the Giants wanted him back?? I’d welcome him in a heartbeat. (Career .278 PH, .284 vs LHP overall)

    Grudzielanek KILLS LHP… but he is a 2b/SS …. I don’t think he has the arm for 3b, and would never see any time at 1b.. so he would be there just for a PH (a career .185 PH, .297 vs LHP overall)

    Nomar only 28 at-bats a PH, .250 avg, but lifetime .313 vs LHP

    Moises Alou in 56 at-bats as a PH, .339 avg….but lifetime .332 avg vs LHP!

    If you are just going by averages.. Alou is the hands-down favorite. Millar would probably be my last pick of that bunch.

  11. Jason B.

    January 23, 2009 at 9:37 am

    If i had to pick, obviously I’d go with Nomar, but I think MR. HAMM wants to spend more time at home doing house work. As for Alou, I don’t want any part of the injury troubles he has. Also, If he wants more playing time, will he really be happy on the bench?

  12. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 9:41 am

    i didnt realize millar was that poor of a PH…so if you can convince alou to accept a pinch hitting role to reestablish his health then that appears to be the way to go…followed by nomar and then grudz

  13. Hugh

    January 23, 2009 at 9:52 am

    No, no, no and no.

  14. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Aurilia might be the sleeper of the group… wouldn’t cost a ton to get him, he’s efficient as a PH and vs LHP.. can fill in a 3b if needed.. and wouldn’t complain about playing time

  15. Woodman

    January 23, 2009 at 10:06 am


  16. Jason B.

    January 23, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Don, I agree with you tha tAurilla is the sleeper of the group. I really don’t want any of the other 3 names mentioned. Aurilla is a veteren which is good for this club. I think Nomar and alou’s personalities are too strong to mesh well with this ballclub. Bottom line though, we need another right handed bat off the bench.

  17. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Nomar has been a part-time player (maybe mostly due to injuries), but I think he would be fine… Alou might fit the role the best, but wouldn’t be happy with it.

    I think Aurilia is going back to the Giants, and this is the first i’ve seen his name even being looked at by another team.

    Any of them is better than what he currently have.. so we can’t be too picky… its a bench player, its not like we’re asking this guy to carry us to the WS again

  18. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 10:19 am

    no no no no no

  19. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 10:36 am

    You guys who are all saying no no no no….um, look at the market and then look at the phillies payroll. Unless they unload Ryan Howard then they wont be able to afford guys like wigginton who think they can command all this money still. they are in teh market for a CHEAP right handed bench bat/spot starting position player. that list of guys is basically all you got to deal with…slim pickens to an extent but thats how things are…maybe a few other names out of the box but other than that there isnt muich else

  20. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 10:39 am

    I think that someone from within the organization might have the tools to do this for us every once in a while. I rather see us giving the younger guys a chance. That being said, I prefer Aurilia over the rest. Nomar would be my 2nd option, but apparently Charlie and Ruben are really high on the guy.

    Alou has great career stats, and batted .347 in 08 (15 games only)…but he’s 42 and may want too much money and playing time. I don’t know if that’s the right vibe for the clubhouse.

    Basically, I just don’t see the need to spend over 2M for a position we could fill with one of our own minor league players.

  21. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 10:39 am

    I’d take Alou on the cheap. The guy can flat out hit. He can’t stay healthy, but he’s the kind of low risk/medium reward guy that you should take a shot on. He’s also a good fit in the lineup-he kills lefties.

  22. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 10:41 am

    You don’t put minor league players into roles that will hurt their development… minor league players are still there so that they can play everyday.. look at what happened to Michael Bourn… sat the bench, pinch-ran.. and now can’t hit to save his life

  23. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 10:50 am

    I’m just saying: are we going to bring a bench guy / pinch-runner that makes the same $$ as Victorino and Werth? Can’t we just find someone that’s not expensive to fill this role… Bruntlett did a pretty good job, imo.

  24. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 10:51 am

    I agree about the minor league thing, the problem is that GMs dont like to hand that role to guys with high ceilings or projections like John Mayberry Jr or Michael Taylor because they wont be playing everyday. That roles almost always filled with a veteran player like the ones listed. Guys liek Mayberry and Taylor need to be playing everyday as starters in the minors to hone their skills further until theyre ready to come up here and play everyday. Thats why when tehyre in am id-season injury jame they call up people like Mike Cervenak or Brad Harman who are either too old to be top prospects or who arent proejcted as high as guys liek Taylor.

    They do the same thign with ptiching. Theyll never bring Carrasco up and use him out of the Bullpen. Thats why it was very unusual to see them flip-flopping JA Happ around last year like they did…thats usually not a good idea.

  25. Ben

    January 23, 2009 at 11:00 am

    I don’t want Alou, I think the guy would be complaining about playing time while the team is winning. Thats a horrible me first attitude and I don’t really want that on this team.

    If Nomar has any expectations of getting significant playing time he too should not be considered. With Nomar he at least has an opportunity to steal 3rd away from Feliz/Dobbs if he performs well. Thats a big if and Feliz is really good defensively. Which makes getting playing time even harder for Nomar.

    I’m one that doesn’t see bringing in the ego’s of Nomar and Alou to ride the bench without any real opportunity to seize playing time as any benefit to this team. These guys want a chance to play fulltime. That is practically non-existant on this team.

  26. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 11:01 am

    You would rather have Bruntlett as your RH pinch hitter instead of ANY of those 5 guys listed above? Seriously?

    All the people that are screaming, “NO NO NO” about the possible players listed, outside of a minor league player… what options are there? Its easy to say no and to bitch about what the Phillies Front-Office is or isn’t doing, but not a whole lot of people are mentioning anything they would do differently

  27. pb

    January 23, 2009 at 11:03 am

    I feel like they need a RH bat that can also pinch run and play all OF positions… and none of the guys rumored fit that bill at all

  28. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Q: Who is the only major league hitter to have a Slugging Percentage under .300 over the last 2 years?
    A: Eric Bruntlett

    Since Alou hasn’t had 345 ABs since 2005, I doubt he’ll be expecting to play everyday. If he signs with the Phillies, he knows it’s as a backup. By all accounts, Alou is a great clubhouse guy.
    Also, Nomar can NOT play 3B anymore. Age and injuried have sapped him of any range. Nomar would be a 1B/Corner OF

  29. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Who are you pinch-running for now that Burrell is gone?

    That isn’t a real “need” until late in the season when you expand the rosters, because its a waste of a space to have a pinch-runner on your team full-time

  30. Stuart

    January 23, 2009 at 11:11 am

    How about a pitcher, and maybe we shoudve gotten a good left fielder. why are we worrying about these old guys who cant really be a bench player.

  31. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 11:12 am

    I’d sign Alou on the cheap and jettison either Jenkins or Stairs.

  32. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 11:16 am

    These “holes” could be filled later in the season. I’d prefer staying away from very old players now that 1. could be costly, 2. could break down anytime and we’d be stuck with for a whole season.

  33. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 11:21 am

    you cant get rid of jenkins because of his terrible contract, you are stuck with him for one more year…stairs will be the odd man out

  34. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Which “good” leftfielder should we have gotten?

    Lowe got signed for $15 M a year, for 4 years…. which people were fine with… but people are bitching about Howard asking for $18 M. …funny

  35. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 11:40 am

    I like Jenkins’ attitude for our team… you always see him on the steps of the dugout, always the team’s biggest cheerleader. His 08 numbers were poor but I’m definitely expecting him to have a much better season this time.

  36. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 11:56 am

    I was not fine with Lowes contract so im happy teh braves are desperately overpaying him. maybe in past years where contracts were inflated and times were better AND LOWE WAS LIKE 30 id say sure throw that money at lowe, but not now…

    Ibanez is the exact perfect fit in terms of a hitter for this lineup so I dont wanna hear any complaints unless he falls off the wagon

  37. DD

    January 23, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Never been a fan of Moises Alou. Maybe I do not know as much about his worth in the clubhouse but I have seen him “dog it” way too much. Always the last guy out of the dugout to play defense (usually walking), rarely runs hard on a ground ball, and when he makes the last out of an inning, just watch him. I would rather see a young, hungry guy in that position.

  38. Amanda

    January 23, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    No thanks. He urinates on his hands.

  39. Ryan

    January 23, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    What about Luis Gonzalez? He sounds like a good fit to me

  40. Ryan

    January 23, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Luis Gonzalez would be a better fit than Alou, imo

  41. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Don I’m not saying “no no no no no” because there are better options out there, I’m saying I don’t want these guys because they are commanding too much money and they are injury risks. You saw what Alou just did to the Mets, he basically stole a few million from them every year.
    And you talk about what’s available, but the Phils have kinda left themselves in this position, the low risk/high reward guys were signed for cheaper money earlier this off-season. Where were we? I mean hell, the BoSox got Penny, Saito, and Baldelli all for cheap, (barring incentives). I guess i’m just frustrated that while these guys came off the shelf, we waited and now are maybe forced into paying too much for a guy who wants to play in the AL so he doesn’t have to play the field and has only played in 102 guys over the past TWO seasons, and one who doesn’t even know that he wants to play. Look at the Giles interview, if you don’t know that you still want to play baseball, then you shouldn’t play baseball anymore. .

  42. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Luis is a lefty, we need a righty…

  43. Gabriel

    January 23, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    anyone else hear about Cole Hamel’s new soda?
    check this out…

  44. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Baldelli (you would want him to reach these incentives on your team):

    It’s a one-year deal, with a $500,000 base salary, which is just $100,000 over the 2009 major league minimum. Baldelli can earn as much as $1.75 million in roster bonuses if he stays healthy and off the disabled list for the season.

    Also, Baldelli’s deal includes plenty of performance bonuses, which start to kick in at 325 plate appearances, all the way up to 600 plate appearances. If Baldelli were to make 600 plate appearances — a highly unlikely figure, to be sure — he could earn as much as $5.25 million in performance bonuses in addition to the roster bonus.

  45. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Here are a few other options:

    1. Ty Wigginton – right handed , 31 yr old, 08 salary – $4,350,000 played 3b, and lf last year – Did play in 111 games last year so may require more playing time than we can offer
    2. Jay Payton – right handed, 36 yr old, 08 salary – $5,000,000. Played LF last year and hit .243 with a .291 OBP and .346 SLG

    I’m not saying they are better options, just other options.

  46. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Don, wouldn’t you willingly pay Baldelli 5.25MIL if he earned those incentives? I’ll take that salary for him over any of these other guys on the list..

  47. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Ty Wigginton wants a starting job and a multiyear contract worth at least what he made last year …last time i saw anything about him basically, he has no market because he wants too much money, forget about him

  48. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    And again.. you just said you don’t want these guys… The Phillies aren’t going to pay a pinch-hitter $5 or $7 M … so don’t worry about the money there. Stairs makes $1 M and he would be gone, so that saves you $1 M on whatever deal you’d replace him with.

    Maybe these guys have been injured because they’ve been trying to play too much, and bench-role is exactly what they need?

  49. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Id concur regarding people like aurelia nomar and alou, they need to settle into bench/occasional starter roles at this point..

  50. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    nomar is a good option, and aurelia wouldnt be bad if he could play the outfield when called upon…rarely taht is

  51. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Quick story about Jay Payton: After my college formal in June of ’01, we went to an afterparty at some bar in the city. Who shows up and starts hitting on my friend’s date? Jay Payton. The thing was, the Mets had a day game the next day. As Payton was taking the girl home, someone asked “hey Jay, don’t you have a game tomorrow?” and he said “man, I’m on the DL, I ain’t gotta do shit!”.

    I will forever remember Jay Payton.

  52. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    The Phillies were one of 4 teams in on Baldelli.. and he wanted to go to the RedSox. I think we all would have wanted him on the roster, but he’s probably a bigger injury concern than any other player in baseball right now

    Wigginton is out.

    Payton would be interesting, but i’d rather have Nomar or Alou over him because they are better.. hands down (whatever that means)

  53. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    I hope bench roles are what they need, but you know professional athletes. It may be fine in April and May, but I’d be surprised if they weren’t asking for more time during the summer when they are tired of sitting on the bench.
    And Geoff I know wigginton is not really an option, but I don’t think we’d be dumb to wait this out a bit longer. The market is dead right now and there may be a few players that could become available if they become more desperate for work.

  54. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Yeah I agree hed be nice to have but he wont play much at all unless someone gets hurt…hed be of better help to a team with less depth…if they didnt have jenkins clogging up the works there id be all over wigginton to be a 4th outfielder.

  55. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Isn’t Wigginton a “very good” defensive infielder??

    Once Stairs leaves, Jenkins isn’t clogging up anything.. he’s a verteran LH- OF… and a better 4th OF than most other teams have. Sucks that we pay him so much money this season, but sometimes you overpay players, and sometimes you underpay by a lot like with Werth and Victorino… so if you look at the OF as a group, they aren’t overpaid at all, and we have a great group of 5 players out there

    Defensively Jenkins is pretty good, and I didn’t see Bruntlett NOT make any plays out there.. though he didn’t always take the best angle to the ball…

    so what we really need to add to the team is a a RH bat.. who can play spots in the InField, if needed, and is better than Dobbs defensively… I think Aurilia and Nomar suit that role well.. Millar and Grudz would only be decent options if all else fails

  56. Richie Allen

    January 23, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Im suprised we can afford a cup of coffee after Howard…and yet here they are talking about these guys who i’m sure wont come that cheap (1 mil )…Hey just maybe we have more money stashed under the mattress some where.
    But do we need these older pinch hitter types at all? Like Geoff said maybe if we didnt have Jenkins,but we do.

  57. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Damn… I knew that Wigginton and Defense were often mentioned together… turns out its because he’s terrible..

    my bad.. yo’s

  58. MA Phanatic

    January 23, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I mean if you are comfortable with Bruntlett, Coste/Paulino, and Giles off the bench, then no we don’t. I agree with you that we probably don’t need another one, but we’ll see. There’s also Donald which adds a whole other degree of complexity to the situation. What do we do if he wins the 2b job out of spring training and then plays well enough to stay up?

  59. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    I think they are going to look to unload Stairs ($1 M), and SOMEBODY has to be willing to take Eaton for $1 M…. teams get desperate, and $1 M for a guy to just eat innings, who can randomly be pretty good, but is usually horrible isn’t a bad deal..

    so that unloads $2 M right there, so if you sign a player in the $2-3-4 M range, its not that bad and doesn’t add that much to the payroll…

    Emil Brown is a corner-OF from the A’s… bats R, hits .270 for his career against LHP.. did he sign with anyone yet?

  60. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    He wont play well enough to stay up because you don’t have anywhere to play him unless people get injured.

    Feliz is so good defensively, that even if he hits .230, you still want him starting at 3b… ONLY if Utley is out for a tremendous amount of time would Donald even be considered, but he played in READING last year.. thats a world of difference from the big leagues.. plain and simple, he’s not ready… and if he is.. then why the hell didn’t we move him in a trade, since he’s obviously blocked here

  61. Grrrumpy Miner

    January 23, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Amanda,as for leaking on someones hand as disgusting as it may sound.I learned from survivor some years back when a contestant burnt his hands on a campfire that it helps burns on your body.Now back to baseball…for those players esp Alou and Nose-mah making close to 10 million and looking for them to take a paycut of epic proportions unless they have the basic love for the game that is never happening.Thats like lets use a CEO from a Fortune 500 company for example and telling him you can do the same job at what a McDonalds worker makes as compared of what millions they make now.

  62. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    also, Donald made 18 errors in only 91 games last year….. combine that with moving over to 2b, and seeing the ball hit from a whole different angle… it wouldn’t be pretty

  63. Crane

    January 23, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    I like Gruzielanek for whatever PH spot they have on the roster, if he can be had for less than $1.5M for one year.

  64. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Yeah its looking like they want donald in AAA for an entire season, and thats the safe thing to do. same with lou marson and slightly carrasco (for most of the season).

    giles will be on the AAA squad and so will pablo ozuna, so dont get all amped up about them even making the big league roster unless someone gets hurt.

    wait until like mid march, someone will break and take eaton off our hands for 1M…someone like the pirates or the rockies ill bet. stairs will be DFA and traded for next to nothing aside from his 1M salary saved.

    as far as pitching, they said they will add another relief pitcher and kcik the tires on some starting ptiching bargains but other than that they are quiet on the pitching front.

    still want to see how the howard situation turns out…the more and more it sinks in that we are in an inetnational economic DEPRESSION the worse howard looks by the day. You look around and see people aroiund you getting laid off and the economy absolutely melting down and this guy is complaining over a difference of 4M and demanding insane contract parameters…the more i see that the more i say you know what? even if it hurts our team i really dont care…send this guy somewhere where hell get paid so he can shut up and take the best offer in return you can get and be done with him. i really, legititmately DESPISE that guy for his behavior…we are in a depression, people are starving and unemployment has skyrocketed and THIS JACKASS is trying to haggle a few extra million ouit of his team when hes ALREADY guaranteed a huge raise from last year!!!


  65. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    i mean really, what a piece of trash!

  66. Joel V

    January 23, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    I say let’s not sign any of these expensive “has beens” and just use one of our own on the cheap that can play many positions and is a RH bat. His name is Chris Coste.

  67. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Geoff, you should give some of your own salary back too.. you know, help those starving people you mentioned

  68. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    I do..

  69. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Randy Wolf close to signing with the Dodgers but it’s reportedly for less than the 3yr/$28 mil he turned down from the Astros earlier this off-season.

    Only Adam Eaton is worth 3yr/$28 million!

  70. Griffin

    January 23, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    well, he was actually 3yr/$24 million, but he’s still the man!

  71. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Howard probably doesn’t do any charity work at all… and he probably gives nothing back

  72. Richie Allen

    January 23, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Geoff I have a hard time with the Howard/money thing too..But Its really the system that pisses me off .I like Howard ,I like watching him play.Sure he boots plenty of plays at first and strikes out a ton.But who gives you that great feeling better than him when he launches one over the wall in center?
    We havent had a player like him in a while.But he’s just playing the money game.He’s going to go for as much as he can because he can.

    What gets me is that the Phils are not on the top of the money teams,so we cant afford the Howards after a while,and they go to the Yanks/Red sox.

    On the other hand we have a great team for now.How would you like to be a Pirates fan?

  73. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    The thing with Howard is: with his incredibly high demands, he’s raising the bar for himself… the minute he can’t perform, I’ll want to see him gone. I’m not willing to give a break to a player who makes 18M.

    You make 18M, you give me Pujols quality.

  74. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    I used to live in Pittsburgh for grad/undergrad: they are all excited about signing craig monroe to a minor league contract…thats how bad things are there.

    I rarely hear or see howard involved in anything int eh community…meanwhile jamie moyer makes trips to central america to oversee the distribution of food aid and baseball equipment to children who are lucky enough to eat..

  75. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    raul ibanez is a huge presence in the community from what i read about him

  76. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    manny..i would add not only you give pujols quality but you be as big of a positive force in the community as pujols is too. that guy is a HUGE superstar yet is ALWAYS doing charity functions

  77. Richie Allen

    January 23, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Thats right Manny, if he gets 18 mil…he better freakin play like an 18 mil player.But thats part of the problem too.Who is worth 18 mil?
    He is setting himself up to be a boo target .
    The other side of this is he can take 14 mil and be a hero.I wish I had an option like that,I’d be the hero ,suffer,and still make 14 mil.

  78. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Geoff.. I’m not sure if you know this.. but MOST players, and professional athletes, give LOTS of money and time to charities.. but they don’t do it with news cameras and reporters in their faces.

    Howard has driven in more runs and hit more HRs than Pujols, and taken his team to the playoffs the past two years.. is that what we would consider “Pujols quality” ???

  79. Mike B.

    January 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Alou? Scares me. Too bad we didn’t get Kapler. Miner, if you’re still here, how did the Mets feel about him?

    The Pirates are laughable. Worse than the mid-Nineties Phils. There were more Phillies fans than Pirates fans at the Friday night Phils/Pirates game during the last week of April, and most of them were Pitt or CMU students. Geoff did you go to Pitt or CMU?

  80. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    he does not deserve that money…noone really does

  81. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    yeah the pirates are worse…i went to Pitt, went to PNC park a lot because you could sit in the front row for last row tickets…noone was there. such a beautiful ballpark gone to waste..

  82. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    I agree that nobody should make that much money… but since people do, people that are worse than him at that job, he’s got every right to ask for it.

    In past week you’d had enough of Howard because:

    You didn’t think the left a tip for a bartender in a story that turned out to be un-true.

    and now because you don’t think he gives enough back to the community.. when really, you have no idea what he doesn or doesn’t do off the field.

    you are a piece of work.

  83. R.Mac

    January 23, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Mets signed Freddy Garcia. 8-9 mil if he hits all his incentives.

  84. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    It doesnt matter if its untrue…thats not even relevant at all. THe guy is showing what a greedy piece of sh*t he is by his behavior with this contract situation..I happen to not want to support people like that. Basicall contracts are completely outrageous as it is…Ferddy Garcia could make 8-9mil? are you kidding me? i mean really? thats out of line. ryan howard wants A-rod money? thats a friggin joke. its a joke that A-rod gets A-rod money.

    the level of rampant greed is outrageous. someplayers just take it because its thrown at them in the market conditions of that particular time but some are just flat out greedy bastards who refuse to accept the already outrageous amount of money thrown at them.

    as if last years effrontery wasnt bad enough (wanting 10m over 7m) this year is worse..i mean refusing a raise to 14m!

    this is way beyond being able to cut the guy a break, this is flat out ridiculous, outrageoud, disgraceful, you name it. this guy has lost me. ill support the rest of the team but this guy is a total scumbag piece of trash and he can get the hell out of my city and off of my team, and I hope ruben amaro comes to that conclusion before the season starts because i dont even want to see him in a phillies uniform REGARDLESS of the fact that it could and would make the team worse int he short-term.

    a big part of being a fan is being able to respect the players you watch and marval at, and that was one of the big factors in my support of this team. hem being a hometown team isnt nearly enough to automatically make me overlook those things. i respect most of the players on this team and i am ok with them representing our community, but i dont respect ryan howard anymore because of these types of things and i really dont even want to see him in Red pinstrikes anymore. thats why id rather them beef up the pitching staff to compensate until they can find another guy to produce runs.

    baseball executives, however, look at the business side of things more. the day they dont think hes worth that investment is the day they try to trade him. now, seeing as how this will be the second time theyve gone to arbitration, they clearly dont think hes worth that type of money and i agree with them.

    if howard somehow wins this case, ill bet they move him before the season starts. they wont pay him 18m, theres no chance in hell that that will go down. its either they win their arb case or he gets traded likea week later.

  85. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I’ll take your book chapter-by-chapter…

    You said you wanted him gone because of that story.. so it does matter that it is untrue, because that was you going on a rant, and bashing players for reasons that aren’t correct.

    You’re calling him a Greedy piece of Sh*t because he ASKED for a contract that would pay him what other “top players” in baseball are making…

    If you found out that co-workers were making twice as much as you, and you are better at your job than they are.. wouldn’t you also try to get paid that amount?

  86. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    you seriously should stay on whatever medication you were on for the past 2-3 months, because you seemed like a normal, intelligent human being..

    These rants are often too much to handle, nobody cares that YOU want certain players gone, because if anyone ever listened to you we wouldn’t have had Rollins, Howard, Madson, Myers, etc.. I know I’ve said that a lot in the past few weeks but that is because you’ve started once again with your ridiculous comments..

  87. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    tahts correct…but we are not making millions of dollars…also, no i wouldnt try because in this eceonomy you can get fired for even asking for more money at some jobs. so maybe that should apply to ryan howard…except hed get traded….

    how many companies or friends do you have that their company is basically freezing all rasies promotions etc and if you dare ask for one they basically try to fire you.

    the asnwer to that is that baseball isnt the real world, its a complete fantasy land where people make ridiculous amounts of money.

    hey man, i dont like the guy, think hes a bad person and i want him gone…whats wrong with that? not everyone has to agree with that..

  88. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    I have no problem with most of the team and most of their decisions…except the decision to keep howard.

    also, those types of medications do more harm than good, seratonin reuptake inhibitors basically act as hallicinogens and turn people into either passive zombie slaves or violent manicas….so i think its a safer idea to just not take any medication at all for any reason.

  89. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm


  90. Georgie

    January 23, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Geoff, are you a Scientologist or something? About halfway through this post, I said to myself, “Geoff must be off his meds, he’s back to his old form”, then Don said the same thing. Those types of meds (antidepressants, etc.) help alot of people who could not live normal lives without them, you sound like Tom Cruise, for heaven sake. I mean, really, this hatred you have for Ryan Howard is irrational, imo.

  91. Evan

    January 23, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    You’ve been talking to the wrong head dr if you think that’s what anti-depressants do.

    Anyway, getting back to Howard (who is a diversion from Alou), what do you think he should get paid? He’s the best home run hitter in the league right now even if he’s a defensive liability he’s still not even in the top 5 worst first basemen according to the fielding bible. He came through several times during the season and playoffs. He’s a big contributor to a championship team.

    I agree he wants too much money. I don’t think his request is SO outrageous that he’s a villain to the city of Philadelphia. A lot of players are overpaid. Adam Eaton doesn’t deserve in three years what Howard should make in one. I’m gonna enjoy watching Howard while he’s still on my team. I suggest you stop complaining and do the same. I don’t wanna think about him ever batting against the Phils in CBP one day.

  92. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Don, you said: “Howard has driven in more runs and hit more HRs than Pujols, and taken his team to the playoffs the past two years.. is that what we would consider “Pujols quality” ???”

    Cmon… are you kidding me! Pujols is, overall, a better baseball player.

  93. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Acutally all you have to do is do a search for news stories of adverse events related to anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, and other such psych meds. youll find that within two weeks to two months of getting on meds a disturbingly high percentage of cases end with the patient killing themselves, other people, or making such attempts. you dont have to be a Dr. to know any of this stuff, if you can read and know how to operate a computer youll find thosuands and thousands of hits showing cases of that nature.

    and no im not a scientologist, i would never join a “religious group” founded by a bad science fiction author….

    as for howard, i could care less if he would come in here and play against us…as an opposing manager you go up there and tell your pitcher (if hes a righty): Ok, throw sliders, changeups and sinkers low and away. if hes lefty: slider slider slider low and away. hell strike out every time. if you hang anything its in the parking lot, but that doesnt make him special. a professional bakll player shoudl crush mistakes.

    he showed up in liek TWO games all postseason. tahts awfully poor for a “unprecedented player.”

  94. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Obviously I know that Albert Pujols is a better player (maybe the best in baseball).. but over the past two years

    Howard has 95 HRs /to Pujols’ 69 … difference of 13 per year.
    Howard has 282 RBIs /to Pujols’ 219… almost 32 per year.

    Howard hits about .260, and Pujols .340 ….. but aside from pulling his average up, what can Howard do to make fans happy?

    This guy just carried us into the postseason, which allowed us to win a World Series, and people digging and digging for reasons not to like him.. he has better power numbers than anyone in baseball (which includes Albert Pujols), and his own “fans” are mad about him ASKING to be paid like one of the best players in baseball.

  95. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    Its one thing if he asks this much in free agency, but he really has little say in that until he does become a free agent. But I can never recall anyone being so impossible during arbitration before.

  96. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    that is the thing though… he has a say… and a 50% chance to get what he wants.. if its unreasaonable, then he’ll lose and get $14 M..

    I understand people being shocked at what he asked for, and thinking that nobody in the world should get paid that much money… lets pay Dr.s’, Teachers, Police, Fire, etc … lets pay them more… nobody, athlete, actor, musician, whatever, nobody needs that much money..

    But if they are paying it, and he feels that if people are being paid that much, then he should be one of them… why is there is outrage against him.. im seriously starting to think its a racial thing

  97. Kevv

    January 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Moises Alou pees on his hands, hahahahaha

  98. Geoff

    January 23, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    racial? thats such a cop out. are you one of those people that when someone says they dont liek obama you say “well you must be a racist” ?

    hes out of line with this, but thats NOTHING compared to mark texeiras situation. thats probably the worst thing ive ever seen in any sport in terms of flat out satanic greed….

  99. Don M

    January 23, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    People said yesterday something along the lines of Hamels and Utley get passes, but Rollins and Howard won’t ….. that’s got nothing to do with Race?

    I voted for Obama.. and I know for a fact that some people I know didn’t because he’s black… Philadelphia is a very racist city.

    Are you mad at Texiera for signing that contract, or the Yankees for offering it??
    That points that you’ve made so far as to the reasons you want Howard gone have been ridiculous..

    I know that at some point, he’s going to get traded, but it doesn’t make any sense to do it in the near future

  100. Kevv

    January 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Satanic Greed? gimmie a break. Tell me how he DOESNT deserve the money, because as i previously stated in another post, he does and the majority on this post, believe he does too

  101. NJ

    January 23, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    I like how some have thrown about names like Wigginton and Grudzielanek, unless Amaro unloads Feliz and or Jenkins then there’s no chance, those aren’t bench guys.

    I’d love to see Alou just to p*ss off the angry Mets fans but that’s just as likely to backfire. The most fitting name for us considering two of our bench infielder can spot as an outfielder is Nomar, even with a DL trip he still offers a lot off the bench when healthy which is pretty much Boston’s take to a certain extent with Baldelli.

  102. Manny

    January 23, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Don: re: “People said yesterday something along the lines of Hamels and Utley get passes, but Rollins and Howard won’t ….. that’s got nothing to do with Race?”

    That’s cause:

    1. Hamels and Utley don’t go out on TV saying stuff about us….in fact, they always talk about how they absolutely love playing in Philly and the east coast, that’s it.
    2. Hamels and Utley have not yet demonstrated selfishness or superegos in asking for bigger contracts… in fact, the first one –the World Series MVP– who could’ve easily taken us to arbitration and make much more money in the next couple of years through that route, just set a good example for kids and other players in the MLB. It just shows who you are.

    And I bought Howard and Rollins shirts way before I got my Hamels and Utley. It’s just how some of these guys handle themselves sometimes…

  103. Memphis

    January 23, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Alou — makes Ibanez look young. Are we bringing back the ’83 Wheez Kids?

    As for Howard, it’s the system, he’s working it, as you would expect with anyone in his unique situation. Who would take less knowing they could make more if they work the system? He wants a long term deal at outrageous numbers (who wouldn’t), numbers we’ll never pay, so the best way to play this is year to year as long as he’s under team control — all the risk is his. I actually think it’s to our advantage. With his size and loopy swing and awful defense, he’s a high risk for an early decline, and we’ll likely have him for his most productive years. Once he hits free agency, let him go, good luck in the AL. Frankly, I’m not even sure he gets the 18M he’s asking for. Would not be surprised at all if the Phils win this one.

  104. The Dipsy

    January 23, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Ryan Howard is without question the best power hitter in baseball. That said, and given the fact that he is such a brutal, yes I said “brutal”, fielder with absolutely NO, as in “Nada” range, how many runs do you think he costs us over the course of a season? And when I say “costs us”, the equation is:

    (Runs allowed by average Ryan Howard) – (Runs allowed by average fielding first basemen) = runs he costs the Phils beacuse of his shitty glove.

    Every time he can’t make the throw to second because he’s throwing into the runner. Everytime he can’t make a rudimentary scoop. Everytime he just plain DROPS a ball thrown at him. Evertime he just cant amek the extra step to his right or left to field the ball. It adds up. I bet he costs us 50 runs. As far as I’m concerened you can deduct that from his RBI stats and then what do you have? For 18m?

    The Dispy

  105. NJ

    January 23, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Would love to see Howard get a dose of Pujols and shape up in which sure pay him what it takes but powers like wins, Marcus Thames is meant to have Howardque power and he’s about as sucessful with it as Adam Eaton on the mound.

  106. Kevv

    January 23, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    The Dipsy, you make howard sound like the absolute worse fielder ever known to man. He’s only been in the league a mere 4 years, and i believe his problem is sometimes he thinks way too much, instead of reading and reacting to the play and just making the play. Especially when throwing to second with a man on first, its a difficult throw, so he may shy away from making the play and take the easy route on tagging first.

    Also, you say how many games he costs the phils with his faulty defense? How about this… how many games do you think he wins with his 40 inch battering ram on his shoulders? He is not getting paid for his supurb defense (sarcasm), hes getting paid for his game changing, momentum changing power and hitting ability.

    By complaining about his defense and his average, is basically looking for anything to criticize the man. Would you rather have him hit .320 with 25 homers and 100 rbis? or .260 50+ homers and 140+ rbis? Ill take the latter.

  107. The Dipsy

    January 23, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    I don’t care WHY Ryan Howard is the worst fielding baseball, Kevv. I just know he his. Awesome hitter. Lets use this for an illustration. Assume the fllowing facts to be true:

    R RBI RCIF (runs cost in field)

    Mark Texiera 102 + 121 – 20 = 203 (total yield)
    Ryan Howard 105 + 146 – 65 = 186

    Is this a ridiculous way to measure these guys? I don’t think so. Lets not forget the runners Howard will NEVER move from first to second or second to third which aren’t even measured here.

    Still a great hitter. But the reason all this matters is that you have to measure his worth to a team because we are essentially a self imposed “capped” team. If we were the Yankees we wouldn’t care. Do you wanna pay THIS man 18 MILL of your LIMITED resources. I’m not so sure.

    The Dispy

  108. The Dipsy

    January 23, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Plus, I neglected I think I shorted Tex because he is a good fielder, not an average one. Yes…..I think Howards defense can REALLY hurt.

  109. NJ

    January 23, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    Where Howard really hurt the Phils last year more than defensively was his attitude and adjustments at the plate, the pitchers were circling around him like vultures and very average pitchers made him look like a fundementally aweful hitter time and time again. Forget the defense, he needs to be the cornerstone of this offense not the brooding sidekick trying to make the headlines every time out.

  110. The Dipsy

    January 23, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    NJ. He’ll never be a good defensive player but you can’t just look the other way from his butchery when it comes time to back up the truck to pay him. But you’re right. Especially against lefties. Ryan v. LHP

    Pitch #1 Breaking ball way outside. Strike 1
    Pitch #2 Fastball high and tight. Strike 2.

    Its 0-2. And thats all she wrote. Every time. The thing is he used to have discipline at the plate. He can lay off those pitches. Its the $$$$$, baby.

  111. NJ

    January 23, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    If you look at the ‘$$$’ guys, their all pretty dedicated to the game and you just hope Howard finds it within himself to follow suit.

    Can Alou even fill the amount of time a team would want out of him let alone what he wants? His body must look like Mike Piazza’s knees

  112. ActuallyChilled

    January 24, 2009 at 4:18 am

    nomar is ‘the one’

  113. hamels' left hand

    January 24, 2009 at 10:24 am

    wow, what an epic thread….men peeing on their hands, racist city, anti-psychosis medications….one for the ages methinks.

  114. Georgie

    January 24, 2009 at 10:31 am

    left hand, we cover it ALL here at PN, and among all the posters, someone is sure to know everything about anything!

  115. Georgie

    January 24, 2009 at 10:33 am

    I am a bit curious about Alou peeing on his hands, though. I think Amanda was the one that mentioned it first,maybe she could dish for us????

  116. NJ

    January 24, 2009 at 10:39 am

    The dude pees on his hands?? That’s a gamer for you, or one guy on PED’s who’s found a way to get around the testing… Similarly I heard a rumor the Indians disappointing season was down to a Cleveland steamer gone wrong that put Jake Westbrook out for the year… Would hate to what’s going on in Cincinnati…

  117. Richie Allen

    January 24, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Question….Does anyone know WHY HE PEES on his hands?…Is it good luck?

  118. Georgie

    January 24, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    hahaha, Richie, that would be the most bizarre thing I’ve ever heard of anyone doing for luck! My curiousity has gotten the best of me now, I’m going to google him, then I’ll ask my dad, who remembers everything from decades ago, but not what he did yesterday.

  119. NJ

    January 24, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Is anyone else thinking about the chicken bone scene in Bull Durham? Wonder if any of the Cubbie or Mets players ever asked him to share the love while he was ‘getting ready’…

  120. joshua

    January 24, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Richie, he pees on his hand because it toughens the skin making it easier to grip the bat (notice he doesnt use batting gloves)

  121. Georgie

    January 24, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Well, apparently that’s the case, Jorge Posada does it too, it’s supposed to heal blisters as well as toughening the skin. There’s a picture of Alou at a urinal holding up his wet, steaming hands! Urea is a major ingredient in moisturizers, though, so peeing on your hands should actually soften them, according to some doctor who was asked about it. Thanks to Amanda for bringing it up, I learn something new almost every day on here.

  122. Don M

    January 25, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Ryan Howard had 5 Throwing Errors last year…

    And in my opinion, he’s actually pretty good at making the scoop at 1st…

  123. Griffin

    January 25, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    From Buster Olney’s blog: “The guy who ranked fifth in the majors in OPS against left-handed pitchers remains unsigned — Ty Wigginton, who absolutely hammered lefties in 2008, posting a .424 on-base percentage and a .631 slugging percentage.”

  124. Don M

    January 25, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    He’s only had 39 at-bats as a pinch hitter, with 5 walks.

    a .263 average is pretty good from that role, but would he be happy doing that? …. 23 HR’s in less than 400 at-bats is crazy..

    Phillies are said to be interested in Wigginton, and Rich Aurilia.. i’d be fine with either of them as the addition.. you could give Pedro Feliz lots of rest early in the year, try to keep him healthy..

  125. Philliez Zuck

    February 25, 2009 at 8:33 am


  126. Peter B

    February 27, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    If Alou was washed up the Pirates would be paying him millions ala Matt morris and Benito Santiago.

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