Howard Can’t Hit Enough Homers To Top Fish – Phillies Nation
2009 Recaps

Howard Can’t Hit Enough Homers To Top Fish

MarlinswinEverything looked so good on the road; they come home, and the Phillies look bad again.

The Phils lost 5-3 to the Marlins. Ryan Howard smashed two home runs; everyone else went 4-for-27 against Marlins pitching. The offensive lull hurt a workable start by Jamie Moyer — he allowed four runs in six innings, three of them coming by a Wes Helms home run that should’ve never happened because of a squeezed strike zone by home plate umpire Marvin Hudson (one of the worst umpiring jobs this year). Still, Moyer walked two and allowed seven innings.

Chan Ho Park also gave up a run through his three innings of clean-up work.

The Phils led off the ninth with a Shane Victorino walk, but the Flyin’ Hawaiian made a boneheaded move, dashing for second and being caught immediately. This, coupled with Jimmy Rollins’ first inning mistake trying to stretch a wild throw, calls for concern with first-base coach Davey Lopes. Something seems off on the basepaths this year, doesn’t it?

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  1. Greg V.

    May 25, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Victorino’s stupidity in the 9th almost warrants a benching if you ask me.

  2. Geoff

    May 25, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Another lame-O weak, unacceptable performance by Jamie Moyer. And everyones complaining about the umpire. Meanwhile, the umpire gave more one called third strike that was at least 9 inches low and away from the hitter. Meanwhile the one he didnt get was 3 inches inside (something he used to get but not anyone). Thanks to HDTV these things are all clear.

    Lets face it , this guy is inadequate and between him and Blanton the Phillies (As Rosenthal said Sat.) are SCRAMBLING to make a trade for at least one starter. I think this week theyre going to have to do something. June 1 is enough time to show that Moyer/Blanton is inadequate. One of them has to get the boot from the rotation.

  3. Geoff

    May 25, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Victorino might have cost them the game with Stairs up there. Mayberry should start in RF tomorrow with Werth in Center.

  4. Geoff

    May 25, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    They REALLy need to bring in a guy with a hard commanded sinker. Desperately.

  5. mike s.

    May 25, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    i dn’t like blaming the ump.
    and i wont here.

    was it a strike to Helms? maybe.

    but that guys zone was shit for BOTH sides.

    and dont forget the first strike to Helms in that same at bat was at his ankles. so you could say he should have walked before the bomb anyway.

    and besides 8 of Moyers first 9 pitches that inning were balls.
    he’s killing me.

    he has 2 starts left in my book..which will get us closer to the trade deadline and the phils make a move.

    I can deal with blanton.

    not moyer.

    vic is a moron sometimes.
    looked like charlie was giving it to him. wouldnt be surprised if he is benched tomorrow and mayberry is in right and werth in center (although werth looks to be on one of his shit streaks now)

  6. Dave

    May 25, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    Geoff, a 6-inning, 4 run start isn’t that bad, especially compared to some of the stinkers that happened this year.

    Sigh… between Geoff and the Mets trolls, I’m not sure why I still come here.

  7. Michael N.

    May 25, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    No offense but we needed 2 runs so yea i can see why its a bad move to run but still its not like matt stairs or anybody hit a home run to tie it.

  8. Georgie

    May 25, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Well, Michael N, since Vic was caught there wasn’t anyone on base, so at that point a Stairs HR WOULDN’T have tied it, so yeah, it was a BAD move.

  9. Dennis

    May 25, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    I completely disagree with that last statement Tim. It was a bad night on the bases, but it hasn’t been a bad year. I was at the game sitting behind first base, on the Rollins play Lopes clearly didn’t tell Jimmy to go the second, mistake one not on Lopes. Victorino must’ve went on his own since Charlie has words with him in the dugout after the play, mistake two I do not believe was on Lopes. It was a bad night, but don’t put this one on Davey Lopes…

  10. Keith

    May 25, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Moyer allowed seven hits, not innings

    imagine if Moyer could reach seven innings?

  11. Ben

    May 25, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Dave don’t be so sanctimonious, Geoff is right. 4 runs in 6 innings equates to a 6.00 ERA, that’s pretty bad. And don’t compare it to other “stinkers”; it’s terrible if Jamie Moyer is considered successful just because he doesnt give up 7 or 8 earned runs. A 6.00 ERA (4 runs in 6 innings) would be ok if you had a team full of Babe Ruth’s that averaged more than 6 runs a game, but seeing as the Phillies average runs scored per game is less than Jamie Moyer’s ERA, he is a loss on paper every time.

  12. Jenny Bee

    May 25, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Moyer should retire in the next five minutes

  13. metsies

    May 25, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    I would not say that

    The Dipsy

  14. metsies

    May 25, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    I would not be surprised if Jamie Moyer called it quits in the afternoon

    The Dipsy

  15. metsies

    May 25, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    I wish Jamie Moyer a happy retirement oh I wish him a happy retirement he cannot pitch anymore so he has to have a happy retirement now he’s old and he needs to go oh it’s time for him to say I’m done.

  16. metsies

    May 25, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    oops forgot

    The Dipsy

  17. Bruce

    May 25, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    The Moyer bashers are so predictable; so blindsighted by their intense dislike for him that they are ready to pounce on whatever they can find in a Moyer’s start and subjectively be critical in calling it a “bad” outing from moyer.

    Tim Malcolm got it right. It was a “workable” start. Moyer did his thing in pitching to contact and getting groundball after groundball and assorted flyballs. If you listened to the postgame interview with Charlie Manual and you would have heard him described Moyer’s performance as acceptable in keeping the team in the game. If you listened to Ricky Bottalico’s post game analysis you would have heard him described Moyer as NOT having pitched poorly in tonight’s game.

    Objectively looking at Moyer’s last two starts, two six inning efforts allowing 3 and 4 runs respectively is an improvement when compared to a rough stretch in the past. His ERA actually dropped to 7.42. And will continue to do so if Moyer remains consistent in future starts. Needless to say, his job is safe.

    On the other hand, Werth looks clueless and has a deer in a headlight look about him with his ABs. Another oh-fer game as BA drops to .252. It may be time to bench Werth for at least a few games for a mental break and let him try to figure a way to break his dreadful slump. Right now he is a deadweight in the lineup and an automatic out..sorry to say. It’s a good opportunity to give Mayberry Jr a few AB’s. At this point, it can’t hurt to play him.

    Finally, I must give some credit to Marlin’s terrific looking 22 yr youngster, Chris Volstad. He certainly has the Phillies’ number. I am very impressed by his composure and command of his rather devastating fastball and changing speeds with other pitches. Florida always seems to come up with good young talent for their team.

  18. Dan

    May 26, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Or, you know, our offense could score more than 3 runs. That’d be nice.


    May 26, 2009 at 12:24 am

    I will start by saying that I’m not even a Moyer fan. I don’t support him being in this rotation anymore – we need reliable, quality pitching that can get wins on its own. What we don’t need is a 46-year old man who needs to ALWAYS get the corners in order to be successful.

    That said, Moyer was not the problem tonight. Although he did strike out Helms before the homer, those first two walks are what killed him. You can’t put runners on base when you have to flirt with the plate all night to get outs. Even with his 4 earned runs over 6 innings, that’s not awful by Moyer standards.

    My problem is the baserunning mistakes tonight, neither of which were Davey Lopes’ fault. Rollins went on his own thinking Ronny Paulino was not backing up the play and the ball got FAR away from first. Victorino went on his own against a closer with a wacky delivery, thinking he could get there. What he didn’t take into account was that the first pitch was going to be a 96mph fastball where it’s a quick turnaround to throw to second base. I understand he was trying to avoid the double-play and get into scoring position to kickstartarally, but come on. Get the guy’s timing first or something.

    The bats just didn’t do it tonight – aside from Howard who looked much better and a lot more patient at the plate tonight. Let’s hope we can rebound and somehow win the series.

  20. Joel

    May 26, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Tim, I agree with you that there is some concern with Lopes over there at first base. I was at the game and I can’t believe that Rollins was allowed to keep going on that error at 1st by Cantu. The ball did not roll as far as anyone thought and J-Ro should have been held on. Then of course there is the issue with Victorino’s attempted steal in the ninth which I had a wretched feeling in my gut the second he left the bag.

    The pitching needs work. I will not beat up on Moyer here, but clearly there needs to be some smart decision making and I will say that Park working three innings may not have been a smart decision.

    It was nice to see Howard come home and stretch a pair of long balls out of the yard.

  21. Joel

    May 26, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Of course, if according to 4daysrest, they went off on their own, then there needs to be better communication about that. And very true about underestimating the timing issue.

  22. Keith

    May 26, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Feliz had 2 hits too and then he was taken out in a silly double switch

  23. Joel

    May 26, 2009 at 12:33 am

    I am correcting my own error was Volstad that was at 1B and made the missed catch error, not Cantu…

  24. Joel

    May 26, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Geoff: Agreed regarding Mayberry. Charlie wants to keep him for the bench and “give him some playing time”; I say let’s get him some playing time.

  25. adam

    May 26, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Vic, WTF? that steal was straight up retarded. I personally love Moyer, but the fact is, he is absolutely not getting the job done lately. He wasn’t horrible tonight, but he was facing a team he has completely dominated in the past. Im far from saying he should hang it up, but going out and getting a new arm would be nice.

  26. Steve

    May 26, 2009 at 1:08 am

    Despite the obvious blunders tonight, one thing that’s been bothering me all season is the lack of hustle out of the leadoff hitter. Groundballs to the infield, flyballs to the outfield, a hit into the gap… regardless of the situation, Rollins is not playing with any intensity. Vic made a boneheaded play tonight, but I’d rather let him play and bench Rollins the next time he jogs down to first after a groundball.

    As far as Moyer… If we limited him to only 3 innings he’d be great. After one time through the line-up… uh-oh. How about this: since Myers can’t get through the first two innings clean, start Moyer for 2-3, follow with Myers for 6-7. Kidding, of course, but I think the Phils would be willing to take a 6 inning 4 run start from Moyer every 5th game considering they have also have the black hole that is Blanton to deal with. The offense should be able to pull them through at least half of those starts.

  27. ryan

    May 26, 2009 at 1:24 am

    victorino getting thrown out in a two run game in the bottom of the ninth with a power hitting matt stairs representing the tying run at the plate is absolutely unforgiveable. he should definitely sit out the rest of this series as a punishment. he is still prone to the bonehead play now and again and needs to be taught with a firm hand.

  28. mikeB

    May 26, 2009 at 6:55 am

    I agree with benching Werth for a few games or so and letting Mayberry play. Werth is just not getting it done and needs a break to get some help with his hitting and finding the right mental approach again.

  29. TwoTonsOfIrony

    May 26, 2009 at 7:19 am

    I am not going to jump all over Moyer as some have done, but there is one thing that bothers me greatly. The fact that in his last three starts he has been able to cruise through the lineup the first time around, which shows that he has his stuff/hitting spots and has studied the hitters. But after that, what looks to be a good start falls apart, so it seems that major league hitters are able to catch up to him faster, they see him one time and then they have it figured out, that is a recipe for disaster in the 4th inning of every game.

  30. TwoTonsOfIrony

    May 26, 2009 at 7:29 am

    Ok…I just finished reading the second half of the posts, just to keep record all these people have to be benched:


    Ummmm….we barely have enough bench bats to do that. IT’S ONE GAME!

    Going to what Steve said, and I also thought about that scenario, jokingly matching Moyer up with a long reliever. But when you think about it, doesn’t the fact that he can get through the lineup one time without any problem make him the perfect choice for a transition to swingman/longman in the pen?

  31. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 7:39 am

    Last night was just one of those games you loose, wasn’t a bad loss. I’d have to question who Moyer’s been giving up runs too but it was an OK start that kept the Phils in the game, if that wasn’t the average and accetable then you’d see 20 game winners littered around the majors each year.

    As for a guy with a hard sinker… Who? Brandon Webb? The majors isn’t exactly littered with guys with successful power sinkers and the only other ones that come to mind are Tim Hudson and Derek Lowe, the rest look awefully like either Adam Eaton or Kyle Kendrick.

    And for getting Mayberry playing time? Matt Stairs is the 4th outfielder and a proven major leaguer, Greg Dobbs needs playing time to get his season going. Mayberry had 1 good game and one very quiet game, the starting 3 you should expect to play 150 games plus and excell, I want to see this kid go down and continue to put together a steller AAA and force the Phils to move either Werth or Vic down the line (the Phils won’t be able to keep 3 free agency eligable outfielders). Mayberry has all the talent to be a good major leaguer down the line, makes no sense to stunt his growth for a bench role when he hasn’t even hit off the bench in a major league game…

    Look around, the Mets look like a pinata, the Fish aren’t mounting a challenge and the Braves have serious line-up issues. The season isn’t going badly for the Phils and you can’t deny now 4/5ths of the current rotation is giving at least servicable starts to go with an offense thats been doing pretty good.

  32. The Dipsy

    May 26, 2009 at 7:46 am

    When they came up with the term “quality start”, I thought that was crap. Just another way to validate a substandard start. But now the term “workable” start? Oy. Tim, mad props for creativity but a worakable start to me sounds like:

    wor-ka-ble (adj) start – A start by a pitcher that, while not cataclysmic, is sufficient to place an disprapportionate burden on that pitchers offense to score enough runs to compensate for his performance.

    By that measure, Moyer’s start was truly workable.

    The Dipsy

  33. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Some of you guys are really being naive to how hard a guy this is to play ESPECIALLY if your a pitcher and berrating a servicable starter as something that only serves a small and insignificant purpose.

    Have you seen where Ricky Nolasco is now let alone Clay Bucholz. We would have killed for Gil Meche last year but look where he’s at right now let alone the multitude of major league pitchers who are still getting paid a hell of a lot to do exactly what Moyer does, but to some Philly fans that doesn’t mean anything and were above it. In Wang there’s a 20 game winner who right now could give a ‘workable start’ if his career was on the line and still Jamie Moyer is being given the ‘old yeller’ treatment. He’s made every one of his starts and is gradually showing signs of being able to do what he does best, make everyone around him look better whilst putting together numbers god enough to keep him employed, yet spoken of like he has avian flu by some fans.

    Next time you want to throw veteran major leaguers names around like you could do their job, think what it actually takes to be and then sustain a career in the majors and how many ‘names’ you would love to have on the team one minute disappear. As Tim pointed out yesterday this team is on course to hit the 90’s in wins and at least be in striking distance of a playoff birth and yet some here act like the seams are ripping at a time there’s too much good to outweigh the bad.

    A LOT of talk here without much perspective and baseball gumption. I’d expect this from Pirates fans or even Mets fans but guys, when your about to post just try and take a littler perspective…

  34. The Dipsy

    May 26, 2009 at 8:04 am

    The Phils offense is playing really well. The pitching is not. If history is any indication, and it usually is, Blanton will pitch A LOT better, Moyer will pitch better, but Happ and Myers will will not. The reason I say this about Happ is because he’s a rook and they don’t go 12-6, 3.66. Things aren’t going that well for the Phils and they’re still in first. I am heartened by that. If they can land another good starter, I think they can run away from the division. I agree with a lot of what NJ says. I also like the idea of bringing Moyer in in the 6th or 7th after the lineup has been geared to fastballs the whole game. Maybe Myers is hitting his stride now as a good starter in this league. That would be great but please don’t extend him yet, Ruben.

    The Dispy

  35. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 8:06 am

    ^One more thing, Billy Beane is said to barely if ever watch his team play and he’s one of the best minds in the modern era of baseball. Watching every pitch of every game or just going by the numbers is an easy way to loose perspective and just end up pissed off…

  36. The Dipsy

    May 26, 2009 at 8:09 am

    Hey NJ. We are fans. We pay money. We emotionally invest. If you’re plumber did a substandard jib n your pipes would you say to him “no problem dude. I know how hard it is to be a plumber. Its a tough job. Just come back next week and try again. Meanwhile you have no hot water. We are fans. We demand. We desire. We want. I don’t give a crap what it takes to be a pitcher in the majors. Let Jamie come do my job for a day and then I’ll come back the next day and listen to my clients/customers bitch about how my fill in from yesterday screwed up. I say this respectfully because you are a good fan and an exemplary poster. But please. Looking at ot from your respective is somewhat naive.


    The Dispy

  37. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:17 am

    Geoff, honestly man, your absolute no questions asked HATRED to Jamie Moyer is really starting to get ANNOYING dude. Why do you have so much patience for Lidge (which I supported you on) but regardless of what Moyer does you continue to HATE the man? I dont get it. is 4 runs in 6 innings great, NO, but it is a workable starts. is 3 runs in 6 innings (his last start) a good performance, and giving your team a chance to won, YES without a doubt. The major problem is when he pitches, the Offense does NOTHING for the most part. Question is, why are you so concerned about Moyer then you are with Werth. Has he gotten a hit at all in the last 25 at bats? Look I dont like losing any less then the next Phan, but come on everyone, if you are going to ask for every person who has a “workable” or decent start to retire after every loss, WOW, I have bad news for you, you have probably at least another 30 losses to get pissed off at and flip out and ask for pwople to be sent to the minors or retire. Guys (and Girls), I have NEVER said this, and I will get alot of flack for this on this site, but (some of you) quite being “Front-runners” support your team and PLAYER. Whenever the team wins, some fans come on here like this is the best team to walk the earth, then when they lose, the team SUCKS, and should never be allowed to play again. As for Werth, WOW. His fielding and throws from the outfield at times are simply AMAZING to watch, the problem right now is his bad, or therefore lack of. I am not quite sure what he is or isnt doing during batting practice or whatever, but his strikeouts have gone through the roof. The only positive sign I saw was he seems to at least be “connecting” with the ball and at least popping out or grounding out more now rather than only striking out. I guess a positive sign. Question is, how do you get him out of this?

  38. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 8:18 am

    I can respect that I think some fans get caught up in that fine line between what it takes to be a playoff team and end up like Houston. I love the passion, as a fan who can’t be in Philly it makes me proud to be a Philllies fan no matter the rep from the outside but I sometimes think it goes too far. You want to belive your team can be the best but there are fans of almost 29 other major league teams who belive the same. When you expect every hitter to hit .300 and pitcher to be a 7+ 1ER pitcher its easy to loose the enjoyment and then comes the bitching…

  39. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Dipsy, how can you say “By that measure, Moyer’s start was truly workable.” and “Moyer will pitch better” and then come back and say “We want. I don’t give a crap what it takes to be a pitcher in the majors. Let Jamie come do my job for a day and then I’ll come back the next day and listen to my clients/customers bitch about how my fill in from yesterday screwed up.”? Just curious. Because the first two quotes gives the sign of an upset fan who STILL SUPPORTS the player, the last one gives the impression that you are done with Moyer? I would tend to think you still support him and the team, unlike how the last quote sounded.

  40. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:25 am

    Outstanding point “When you expect every hitter to hit .300 and pitcher to be a 7+ 1ER pitcher its easy to loose the enjoyment and then comes the bitching…”

  41. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Brian of CO- here’s somewhere I will gripe, get a new hitting coach. Milt has great history with this club but he hasn’t exactly proven his ability to coach the bats past their talent. Coupled with Charlie’s history as a hitting coach you see an awefully lot of bad approaches and poor hitting fundementals. With Werth you just have to ride the gravy train when it’s good and try not to have him loose confidence by giving others playing time when it’s bad.

    BTW take a look at Moyer’s game by game lines. Outside of 3 bad games he’s done everything he did last year and he’s had almost nothing to work with in the last 3 games, though last night should have been enough to do a little better given the situation.

  42. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:35 am

    I like Milt, but that may just be the right idea. He didnt exactly get Howard out of his slump last year in the playoffs as much as I think Howard got himself to do it, IMO. As for Werth, I would hate to bench him because of those throws he makes to save games, but someone really needs to work with him. He has SO much potential. While like you said, I want “hitter to hit .300 and pitcher to be a 7+ 1ER pitcher”, I understand its not, and would rather see Moyer only give up 1 or 2, but if he goes out there, and only gives up 3 MAYBE 4, I can deal with that from the pitchers side. The bats have often put up 6 or more runs this season. and I mean OFTEN. They just dont do it when Moyer pitches this year. The thing that is getting to me, is some (not all or most only some) are acting the same way when Moyer gives up 7 runs in 5 innings like against the Mutts and Dodgers as when he only gives up 3 or 4 runs in 6 innings like the last two starts. HUGE difference between those 4 starts. He has last an extra inning and cut the earned runs. Not ideal, but workable.

  43. The Dipsy

    May 26, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Brian, in response to your post. I was referencing NJ’s post of 8:00 a.m.

    1) NJ wants us to keep in mind how hard it is to be a pitcher in the majors and thats why we should cut Jamie slack. Baseball is different than other jobs. hence the plumber analogy. I don’t care how hard it is. Thats all I’m saying. He’s here. He’s on our team. Pitch better. We’re fans. That being the case should a pitcher excuse his bad performance by telling us that pitching is hard? No crap. Thats why you get pais a gizzillion dollars and we dont.

    2) “Workable” start. I guess the dripping sarcasm evaded you. Thats cool. Its a post and tone doesn’t translate.

    3) History DOES show that Moyer will pitch better. How can he not? He blows right now. But I’m rootin for him.


    The Dispy

  44. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:54 am

    Dipsy, Yes I missed the dripping sarcasm, but keep in mind, when I started posting it was 6:24 am in Colorado. 🙂 Gotta love getting up early for work. LOL. So I am still barely away at 6:52 am. LOL. I get is (not). My harsh post also wasnt in reference to you, or even the majority of the posts, but was aimed at the people who can only spew hatred and retirement or minors EVERY single time the team loses regardless of the game, or things like that.

  45. Brian of CO

    May 26, 2009 at 8:55 am

    awake, NOT away. 🙂 I guess I need coffee.

  46. Desi Relaford

    May 26, 2009 at 9:03 am

    I always joke around that the NHL came up with the term “scoring chance” so that kids who are terrible at video game hockey and can not get a shot off can still feel good about themselves. That is how I feel about “quality start.”

    The biggest issue with the team is the horrible performances at home. They just seem to play very lazy and stupid baseball. And they always seem to follow up a good game with a real clunker. They have won back to back games at home just twice, while losing back-to-back home games 5 times. The good news is that they have yet to lose 3 in a row at home. So people with tickets for Wednesday’s game have a chance to see a win. They just seem kind of full of themselves at home. But right now they have 5 games against two of the worst teams in baseball- the Marlins are on a 10-23 run right now. The Phillies need to go 4-1 over this stretch.

    Rollins and Victorino had horrible games on the base paths last night, and nobody seems to be talking about Victorino’s throw to “home” or maybe it was to 3rd. He could have had outs at home or 3rd, but he got neither.

  47. Steve-o

    May 26, 2009 at 9:16 am

    Alright so I’ve figured it out. The perfect way to solve the Phils home vs road issues.

    We blindfold the players. Put them on a bus, and drive them to the airport. Take them through the terminals, put them on a plane, and fly them in circles for 2 hours. Have them land back in Philly, drive them to the ballpark, and take off the blindfolds. Tell them they have a quick 3 game home stand and that they’ll be back home afterwards.

    At this point, i’m desperate. This is getting ridiculous. I’m scared to buy tickets to a home game now.

  48. Manny

    May 26, 2009 at 9:42 am

    This season, when I know Moyer is going to pitch, I get mentally prepared for a loss… could our hitters be doing that unconsciously too?

    It is PAINFUL to watch Moyer pitch, the game takes forever!

  49. Chuck P

    May 26, 2009 at 9:45 am

    This was a bad match-up… Volstad vs. Moyer. You go into this one hoping that Moyer can keep it close. Forget about ERA and Quality Starts and other stats for a moment… just one moment… and think about the ebb and flow of the game. Our guys come into this game knowing that they don’t have a favorable match-up… they are down on themselves from the get-go… then, when it’s surprisingly still close, they realize that they have a shot and start playing anxious. That’s where you get those baserunning errors… coaches need to recognize that anxiety and calm them down… one base at a time. Most of us would have predicted that the Phils were going to lose heading into this one. If I had told you that the Phils would be within one run in the 7th with that match-up, most of you would take that. Moyer did his job… I’ll admit that he wasn’t great but as a 5th starter, I’ll take my chances that our offense can score 5 runs (and cover his 4). Keeping the team within one run, affording them the opportunity to win the game is all that I’m asking for. His last two starts haven’t been terrible. He’s not shut-down. He’s the same guy he was last year but he’s not getting the breaks. Same goes for Lidge. Broken bat hits, missed calls… those types of things don’t happen during magical runs but this team is better. This team is more talented and built to repeat and I think that we’re on the brink of seeing just what this team is capable of.

  50. Geoff

    May 26, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Im sorry guys, Im sorry if youre offended when I simply say that im tired of watching a guy go out there and basically totally suck like almost the entire season. Im fairly certain Drew Carpenter could do a better job than Moyer at this point, which is sad. Moyer is totally feeble and weak out there. Joking with Carpenter, but its gotten to the point where guys like Jason Marquis (who has a good sinker and the Phils asked about over the weekend) is a better option. Aaron Cook is a better option. Like about 80% of the starters in baseball (many of whom are bad too) are STILL better than trotting this guy out there every turn. Its very very tiresome. I mean we could get someone who sucks and makes a few hundred K as opposed to what theyre paying Moyer now.

  51. The Dispy

    May 26, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Chuck P (are you related to Chuck D. from Public Enemy?): Moyer did his job? If doing your job is keeping your team close than I guess if you leave the game in the 6th with your team ahead 9-8 you did your job. Drastic analogy. Truth be told, I’ll take that start last night every time from Jamie Moyer for the rest of the season. Which is sad. But it beats the alternative.

    The Dispy

  52. mikemike

    May 26, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Everything I read points to the phillies going after a stop gap pitcher, cook, marquis. the names out there are joe blanton types, Cook has given up almost 4.6 runs per game, and two hundred more hits per innings in his career and he is 32 I believe. marquis is about the same. What is scary is what would they give up. last year for Blanton who wasn’t that good they gave up a lefthand almost ready pitcher, a top second basemen and a power hitter outfield[ who might never hit for average] I don’t trust there evaluation of the minors talent. Right now Outman is starting for oakland, Cardenas is hitting389 at double a and spencer just got promoted to Double a and is hitting 244.

  53. The Dispy

    May 26, 2009 at 10:41 am

    MikeMike. Cook is pretty good. He’s a groundball pitcher. Won 16 games last year. Has averaged about 3.95 ERA over last 4 years in that hell hole. Get him outta Colorado and you can drop that ERA…whaddaya say .30 at least? I’d like to have him.

    The Dipsy

  54. mikemike

    May 26, 2009 at 11:01 am

    The Dipsy check out his hits per inning related that to cbp and you have Joe Blanton ,His era lifetime is not 3.95 it 4.58 and he is not a up and coming pitcher , point is we need a two and they are talking 4-5. I said last year about blanton who has similiar numbers that he wasn’t that good and got rip, this guy is the same, he isn’t that guy we need. If this is there answer or the fans on there suggestion, I would stay pat, and wait for the farm. Last year look what Brewers gave up for CC , they took the gamble , it didn’t work but they tried, If I knew this team would pay Howard and Hamels when there arb years are up. then screw getting a pitcher, and wait for drabek and brown and taylor, stutes, but they only have a small window.

  55. Geoff

    May 26, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Im gonna side with MM on this one…Marquis and Cook – while better than Moyer at this stage of his career, are still back end guys. Joe Blanton won 16 games in 2006 and look at him now. BUT, both Cook and Marquis are sinkerballers which is what we need in CBP.

    The way Moyer and Blanton have been looking. They may need more than one starter anyway. Who knows what you do with Blanton if he doesnt improve.

    The first guy they get (which, I predict will be within two weeks) will be A Cook/Marquis type 4th starter sinkerballer. The second guy will be at the deadline and will be a number two like Bedard.

  56. The Dispy

    May 26, 2009 at 11:15 am

    I like Cook better than you. No big deal. Over the last 4 years check him out. Overall, I agree with you. To borrow a poker analogy (which I lose at regularly), when your at the final table you gotta push your chips in. Thats where the Phils are. I wrote yesterday that I didn’t understand why teams always wanna wait for an “available pitcher”. If you see a pitcher you want sometimes SOMETIMES you gotta overpay to get him. Halladay, Meche, Duke, Webb. Of course these guys aren’t “available”. But as we all know..every man has his price.

    The Dipsy

  57. The Dispy

    May 26, 2009 at 11:20 am

    I would love if they did that Geoff.


    My heart be still. Does that then make Happ expendable? Bullpen:





    Thats eight. One too many. Trade Eyre for a marginal prospect. You can blow out Taschner and Park.

    The Dipsy


    May 26, 2009 at 11:41 am

    Moyer and Happ are not and will not be bullpen guys in the long-run. It’s that simple.

    Moyer will retire if he is sent to the bullpen.

  59. The Dipsy

    May 26, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Two years ago I knew nothing about baseball or the Phillies in general. Then the Phillies became the cities hottest ticket and I began to half-heartedly follow baseball. I have absolutely no baseball knowledge and just regurgitate what I hear on bad sports radio.

    I have no life and live with my parents so after the Phillies became World Series Champions I decided to try and become a baseball fan. Now I read every article on and try to come up with good trades for the Phillies to do along with the odds they will do them. All with hopes to one day be a GM in fantasy baseball because honestly all of my trades are retarded and are pure fantasy.

    I hope one day to have any understanding of the game of baseball and realize that it is not like other sports like football with a 16 game season and you can not make brash decisions because baseball is a marathon and not a sprint.


    The Dipsy

    PS. I make sure to list my name at the bottom of the post so you all know its me cause I mean I am an extremely important member of this board and people know me. I AM IMPORTANT!

    The Dipsy

  60. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Bedard and Cook or Marquis… Funny and Moyer in the bullpen… Even Funnier

    You do read some funny, outlandish ideas here

  61. NJ

    May 26, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Actually I am going to get into this:

    Peavy, Halladay, Hamels, Bedard and hell why not start Madson since he’s pitching well… Longman in the bullpen- Roy Oswalt

  62. Keith

    May 26, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Hamels, Halladay, Peavy, Lee, Myers

    that’s a sick pitching staff

  63. baseballfan

    May 26, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    the dipsys wack

    the dipsy

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