Opinion

If Myers Is Done, What Should Phillies Do?

I stepped away from the Phillies for a while today, since there wasn’t anything really new to write about. Yes, the offense has some bad games, especially against sinkerball pitchers and guys who … well … can actually pitch. And yes, the pitching wasn’t good last night – Brett Myers was probably hurt; Jack Taschner probably isn’t long for the 25-man roster. We know all these things.

Then the news about Myers grew worse, and now it looks as if the longtime Phillie won’t finish 2009; moreover, he might not even don a pair of red pinstripes again.

So now the question becomes: What now? Suddenly the Phillies have lost their best pitcher (statistically), leaving one bonafide ace (Cole Hamels), a probable mid-rotation seesaw (Joe Blanton), a still-unproven mid-rotation lowballer (JA Happ) and an aged veteran who hasn’t shown to be worth his weight (Jamie Moyer). Suddenly they’re – at best – a three-man staff.

It’s no secret the Phillies have been the most ambitious of gentleman callers this season. They’ve inquired about the following pitchers: Jake Peavy, Brandon Webb, Roy Halladay, Doug Davis, Erik Bedard, Cliff Lee, Aaron Harang, Brad Penny, Chris Young and Jason Marquis. The names range from the elite to the broken, and everything in between. For once, though, the Phillies have the talent leverage to pull a deal. Names teams are salivating over include Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Travis d’Arnaud, Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, Freddy Galvis, Vance Worley, Kyle Drabek and Antonio Bastardo. Ah, the benefits of finally having a top-shelf farm system.

But considering the circumstances of both the major league rotation and the potential dearth of pitching prospects, the Phils might need two starters via a trade. It might mean Jason Marquis now, Jake Peavy later. Or the Phillies could call up Carlos Carrasco or Vance Worley. Or they could play it safe with Kyle Kendrick or Andrew Carpenter (safe, meaning, they don’t mind making the offense score seven runs per game).

Of course, one problem the Phillies now face is every team in baseball knows the Phils need an arm, so the Phils carry no value leverage. A multiple prospect deal (say Marson, Worley and Bastardo) for a Young is very possible.

So should the Phils point their guns at a big-time pitcher right away?

I think it’s best the Phillies work with what they currently have, at least for a little while. Yes, there is only one goal: Win a world championship. There is no selling to be done. There is no resting on their hands. They must show a commitment to winning. But jumping that gun and trading for a mid- or top-line starter right away wouldn’t be wise. Instead, give Kendrick and Carrasco their chances. Yes, Kendrick has struggled, but his average against with runners in scoring position remains strong (.170, almost 100 points less than his standard average against). That seems like the old Kendrick.

Meanwhile, despite Carrsaco’s faults he remains a high-strikeout pitcher capable of going undamaged in five-to-six inning starts. Start him on a major league track now – force him to make adjustments and see if you can ride him for a few starts. If so, you’ve saved some money and gained some leverage.

Of course, it’s still possible Myers might eschew surgery and risk his hip, pitching the remainder of 2009 without surgery. That’s not wise, but if he feels okay about it, it’s his call. That said, the Phillies can’t be reactionary. They’re already naked to the rest of the league; if they can prove they have more clothes than others think, they can gain some leverage and, ultimately, help themselves out in the long run. Not just in the short term.

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0 Comments

  1. Ben

    May 28, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Why not take a chance and sign Ben Sheets? That way you get an impact pitcher without having to gut the farm system by trading for a big name. Kendrick or Carrasco or Worley or someone can hold down the fort for a couple of months until Sheets returns with a fresh arm for the stretch run.

  2. me

    May 28, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Yes, that top shelf farm system which was like mid teens when BA ranked all major league farm systems.

    I’m calling Amaro makes a deal for Oswalt, but overpays in the process.

  3. will

    May 28, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    doesnt matter who you get the mets will win the division

  4. Geoff

    May 28, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    They cant wait like that. They might need two, but they can wait to see. But they cant wait for one. These guys in the minors are all close to ready but none are really blatantly ready yet. I think theyll make a modest deal at first (Aaron Cook, Marquis maybe; basically, your usual mid-rotation solid sinkerballer) and see what happens with Moyer and see if Blanton is consistent.

  5. Tim Malcolm

    May 28, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    According to most experts, the farm system has improved dramatically (even this season), and many believe it is among the cream of baseball.

  6. The Dipsy

    May 28, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    All three of those guys for Young, Tim? I would never in a million years do that. Worley and Bastardo could very possibly the #2 and #3 pitchers in the system. I don’t mind overpaying at this point but that might be close to rape. And all of a sudden the cries for Oswalt. Well, its gonna come earlier than I expected (I think I predicted July 17) but he’s gonna be the guy. Marquis or Cook to come as soon as Myers announces surgery. And lets not forget about Jon Garland 🙂

    The Dipsy

  7. Pingback: Myers May Need Surgery: What Should the Phillies Do? | Heard in the Cheap Seats

  8. Red Sox Fan

    May 28, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    What would you guys think about Brad Penny? What prospect would you consider giving up and who would be fair value?

    Penny seems like he would fill a role since the Phillies really need 2 starters (how much longer can they depend on Moyer?) He wouldn’t be an ace you pair along with Hamels and is a short term fix, but he would be better than the internal options, Chan Ho Park and Kendrick.

  9. The Dipsy

    May 28, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Hey thanks for the news.

    The Dispy

  10. The Dipsy

    May 28, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    OR move Myers to the bullpen as the 7th inning guy. I’m only half kidding.

    The Dipsy

  11. Rich

    May 28, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    I would do none of the above right now. Kendrick has been more good than bad in Allentown. Let’s bring him back now, hope he throws ok, and look to make a big move. I’m sorry, if you think Marquis, Cook, or any other bucket of warm spit will cut it, you’re nuts. Considering the cost for Blanton last year (when we were much better off), we can’t afford to make two deals for two guys worth their weight. I would limit ourselves to looking at Oswalt, Lee, Harang, Webb, Peavy, Halladay, and Bedard. Remember here, you’re talking about the best statistical starter we’ve had this year, gone. This means you need a real #1-2 type starter, even if you think Cole is going to be great now.

  12. The Dipsy

    May 28, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Hey Rich. Kendrick sucks and will always suck. He’s dead to me.

    The Dipsy

  13. Geoff

    May 28, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Well…Ill say that Kendrick is not a wise choice. As a matter of fact, I think hes going to be traded in the deal for either Cook or Marquis. Honestly, NONE of the starters we have in the minors are ready now, if they had someone ready they wouldnt have given Moyer a 2 year contract hoping he could still hack it. They are PROSPECTS. Good prospects. It will take longer to get a starter to replace Myers’ production, and at that time Moyer will be removed from the rotation. But for now I see them making a deal for a sinkerballer who is a mid-rotation arm.

  14. The Little Guy

    May 28, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Vance Worley, the dude talking about the Phillies minor leaguers says he could be called up.

    The double A coach said he is MLB ready and and has MLB ready stuff.

  15. mikemike

    May 28, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    If it’s Worley that would be a big suprise. He was allready jumped a level this year, carpenter or Bastardo make more sense right now. Mlb says phillies are in no rush to make a trade. interesting. I wonder how many times the phillies have taken a double a player and brought him up, I believe they take it very slow with prospect.

  16. Joel

    May 28, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    How about signing Pedro Martinez or Paul Byrd??? That would be one option, no???

  17. Greg V.

    May 28, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    The Byrd Cage!

  18. 4daysrest.com

    May 28, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    The pitching moves available to the Phillies right now are few and far between. To land a superstar, you’d have to part with not only a major league bat (Werth/Victorino), but a lot of the top-level talent in the minors that we’ve been grooming for the next 2-3 years. It’s a tough call.

  19. Geoff

    May 28, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Bedard wont cost that much…the Brewers didnt even give up that much for sabathia..get with it guys…it would require a few of your best prospects….you CAN get some top level guys itll just cost like 3 really good prospects plus a few others

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  21. From Section 113

    May 29, 2009 at 1:25 am

    Taking a chance on Pedro or Sheets might be smart. Sheets would be sought after and if Money is an issue than that could be a problem.

    I don’t mind Cook.

  22. Todd H.

    May 29, 2009 at 3:45 am

    I know this doesn’t change anything but…if Ruben had taken my advice and signed Derek Lowe the Phils would only need to fill one spot.

    In any event…WE NEED A SP!!! I’d dare say…we need four of them LOL!!

    I think Peavy would be a great choice if we’re are going to be trading the “farm”. No sense in dealing top prospects to get crap (Blanton) in return.

  23. mikemike

    May 29, 2009 at 7:37 am

    Didn’t the brewers give up Matt La Porta a top level prospect. Better than any prospect we have according to scouts. That doesn’t mean he will be better than BROWN OR DRABEK OR TAYLOR.but a high level prospect.

  24. The Dipsy

    May 29, 2009 at 7:48 am

    mikemike:

    1) Do you think teams devalue a Marson and Donald a little if they believe that they Phils HAVE to trade them because they have no place to play them?

    2) Right now I rank our minor league pitchers like this 1) Drabek 2) Bastardo 3) Worley 4) Carrasco. Do you agree?

    Carrasco’s head is bumping up against the ceiling but it seems he’s not breaking through yet. Worley’s manager apparently thinks he’s ready NOW. Man I would hate to give up Drabek. You comments?

    The Dipsy

  25. The Dipsy

    May 29, 2009 at 7:53 am

    Excuse me. Let me be precise. “Devalue” is the wrong word. Do you think teams will attempt to give us less than full value if they feel that Marson and Donald are “blocked? Personally, I feel Donald may not be if we trade Vic or Werth but I think Marson certainly is.

    The Dispy

    P.S. I think Myers is gonna pitch.

  26. Gary B

    May 29, 2009 at 8:13 am

    Well written Tim, I agree 100%. Let’s bring these young guys up and give them a shot to fill some holes in the rotation.

  27. Rick in MA

    May 29, 2009 at 8:46 am

    How about Marson for Clay Buchholz who is also “blocked”?

    The Red Sox need a catcher for the future, right? Marson could fill that role and I think they’ve lost patience with Buchholz.

    I would love to see Webb in Philly! If the Phils got Webb and brought up Kendrick, he could improve! Kendrick could learn a lot about pitching with his sinker from Webb.

  28. Phil

    May 29, 2009 at 8:53 am

    Rick, there is no way the Red Sox are trading Bucholz. He’s got better stuff than every single pitcher on that pitching staff combined. He’s going to be the next Lincecum. They’ve regained their patience with him, he has a sub 2 ERA in the minors. They just have a log jam at the major league level, so there’s no way of calling him up right now.

  29. Sean Chase

    May 29, 2009 at 8:54 am

    The Phillies made a mistake by giving Moyer 22 mil, and not going after a young talent in the offseason. Now they’re stuck. Their payroll will not allow them to sign Peavy. They will need to trade 2 top prospects and most likely a player on the current roster. (Marson, Carrasco, and then it’s anyones guess.) You cannot trade Jayson Werth, he is our only right handed power bat. We’re in trouble if Moyer, Happ, and Blanton cannot step up to fill the void lost by Brett. Kendrick will most likely fill the spot. I don’t see them making a trade until at least early July. Let’s just hope they can stay in division contention until that point. Dobbs step it up, boy!

  30. Sean Chase

    May 29, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Brandon Webb is injured.

  31. Phil

    May 29, 2009 at 8:59 am

    They only gave Moyer $14 mil I think…maybe $16 mil. I am all for trading Victorino. He can net a lot because he’s so overrated. Victorino is so overrated that people think he is underrated. Werth can play center, and although I know the line up would lose a bit of speed and falter for contact a bit I think Mayberry would be fine in right. The defense wouldn’t lose that much either. Victorino, Marson, Carrasco, and another low level prospect could probably land us any ace out there. Victorino and Marson could probably get us a guy like Harang. The Reds would love Victorino. They could put him in RF and shift Bruce to LF and leave Taveras in CF. That would give them the best defensive OF in all of baseball and lots of speed on the base paths. They also wouldn’t have that garbage platoon in LF. Their pitching is great so they can afford to let go of Harang. That should be what they go after.

  32. Evan

    May 29, 2009 at 9:00 am

    How about trying Madson as a starter again or does he need to develop another pitch?

  33. Phil

    May 29, 2009 at 9:00 am

    Brandon Webb being injured is a good thing. When he comes back his value will be cheaper.

  34. happy feet

    May 29, 2009 at 9:01 am

    The phillies should try to get by with what they have and then wait to see who falls out of the race and try to get a starter that way. No use on trading marson, brown, drabek to a mariners and gettting bedard. That would kill the farm we need to be smart and acquire a top level pitcher like a Oswalt, Peavy or a Bueherle someone who is good and eats up high innings. I do think if the jays fall out of contention the phillies could make a intising offer to the Jays with a guy like Marson and Donald and then throw in a guy like Bastardo and maybe give up Victorino. To me Holiday is the ONLY pitcher worth giving up MLB level talent for in the leauge. He eats innings and wins.

  35. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 9:04 am

    Dipsy, I have to say Michael Taylor has to be higher on the list than at least 1 or 2 of those players, and Dom Brown according to Baseball America is our top prospect with good reason, he is tearing apart FSL pitchers, the minute that Michael Taylor gets called to LHV, Brown will be in Reading. So right now i put the top 5 like this.

    1. Dominic Brown
    2. Kyle Drabek
    3. Michael Taylor
    4. Antonio Bastardo
    5. Carlos Carrasco

    Worley’s still right there but Carrasco is still a guy the Phils are higher on. Just my opinion but I think the Phils are still higher on Carrasco because they’ve put more into his development than Worley who came to the Phils as a more polished prospect.

  36. mikemike

    May 29, 2009 at 9:04 am

    That is why I believe last night on mlb the phillies said we are in not a rush, We don’t have to do anything. Sure a lot of teams think they have them under the gun, Last season when they tried to get C.C. then haren, then harden, and fail, and had no one ready to step in, look what oakland did to them, they raped them for a okay starter, It won’t happen again. Ruben has to be patient, we won the series, and as much as I would want another title. they can’t be given up allstart caliber prospects for guys who are blanton or park, or marquis type’s. I rather see them bring up bastardo, or kenrick or carpenter instead, Drabek, is a stud in my opinion untouchable. so is brown, Knapp is near untouchable too . Worley and Stutes could be dealt but not for a cook type must be better like Cain.

  37. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Happy Feet it’s Halladay, Roy Halladay, not like Matt Holliday.

  38. Pete

    May 29, 2009 at 9:15 am

    don’t think they let you post links here, but reclinergm(.com) has a good article up with 24 possible replacements for Myers, and maybe Moyer down the road.

  39. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 9:18 am

    I think they bring up Worley. Carrasco just isn’t ready, and Bastardo has only had 2 starts at AAA. Let’s wait and see before selling the farm for a starter.

  40. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Vance Worley does seem like the best guy to bring up if theyre going to go that route. He does actually appear (from scouting and coach statements and stats) to be ready right now. If he can perform well that buys them some time to find a replacement for Moyer who would replace Myers’ numbers.

    Also, Worley could blindside baseball for a few weeks and baffle hitters because hes an unknown.

  41. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 9:40 am

    It’s a worthy risk to chance throwing Worley into the fire but if it backfires then you kill his development and he’s your new Kyle Kendrick that has to go back through the minors to develop his pitches better, the book on Worley from what I’ve seen is that he’s got the pitches, but the control and command tend to get away from him from time to time, which is why he went through a bad 2-3 starts before turning it back around last game. I don’t think the Phils chance it, they worry too much about their pitching prospects as it is. I think it’s Carpenter or Kendrick before the AA boys or Carrasco, it could even be a guy like Rodrigo Lopez who they may not be afraid to waive if his chances go bad then they have roster spots for Worley or Stutes should they make that call.

  42. J A Happy

    May 29, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Someone mentioned Madson as a starter again,I think hes to important to the pen,,but what about Chad Durbin as a starter? he would be easier to replace in the pen

  43. Ed

    May 29, 2009 at 9:42 am

    Personally I would trade the farm for Halladay. And then go with the rest of the rotation we have, maybe trade for a back of the rotation guy…Jon Garland, Doug Davis etc.

  44. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Worley has some great numbers but a couple of numbers stick out for me, 21 years old less than a year out of the draft with only 22 games of minor league experience. I love what this kids showing but calling for him to take a big spot in the rotation for 2/3rds of a season seems premature to me.

    I’m expecting a no frills rental to be brought in, 2010 free agent pitchers:
    Brandon Backe (32)
    Miguel Batista (39)
    Josh Beckett (30) – $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout
    Erik Bedard (31)
    Kris Benson (34)
    Daniel Cabrera (29)
    Chris Capuano (31)
    Bartolo Colon (37)
    Jose Contreras (38)
    Doug Davis (34)
    Justin Duchscherer (32)
    Adam Eaton (32)
    Shawn Estes (37)
    Josh Fogg (33)
    Freddy Garcia (34)
    Jon Garland (30) – $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout
    Tom Glavine (44)
    Mike Hampton (37)
    Rich Harden (28)
    Mark Hendrickson (36)
    Livan Hernandez (35)
    Tim Hudson (34) – $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
    Jason Jennings (31)
    Jason Johnson (36)
    Randy Johnson (46)
    John Lackey (31)
    Cliff Lee (31) – $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Braden Looper (35) – option
    Rodrigo Lopez (34)
    Jason Marquis (31)
    Kevin Millwood (35) – Rangers can decline $12MM salary for ’10 unless he reaches 180 innings in ’09
    Brian Moehler (38) – mutual option
    Vicente Padilla (32) – $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout
    John Parrish (32)
    Carl Pavano (34)
    Brad Penny (32)
    Odalis Perez (33)
    Andy Pettitte (38)
    Joel Pineiro (31)
    Sidney Ponson (33)
    Mark Prior (28)
    Horacio Ramirez (30)
    Jason Schmidt (37)
    John Smoltz (43)
    Tim Wakefield (43) – perpetual $4MM club option
    Jarrod Washburn (35)
    Brandon Webb (31) – $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout
    Todd Wellemeyer (31)
    Kip Wells (33)
    Randy Wolf (33)

  45. Kevin

    May 29, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Nice Article Tim, thought-provoking, as usual.

    In the article there was mention that the Phils currently carry no value-leverage in respect to trading for a top tier pitcher because all the teams in the league know the Phil’s situation… however, also mentioned was that the Phils don’t need to jump the gun and should call up Kendrick or Carrasco and give them some work to see if they work out.

    But what happens if those guys fail, and the Phillies look even more desperate to acquire a #2 or #3 pitcher…. they lose even more leverage when trying to make a deal, right?

  46. J A Happy

    May 29, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Say no to Chan Ho

  47. bob

    May 29, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Adam eatons aviable!!

  48. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I think Eric Bedard is a member of the Phillies sometime within the next week..

    and we’ll say goodbye to one of our OF prospects since the Mariners lost Adam Jones to Baltimore when they got Bedard a few years ago.. Marquis isn’t going to help.. you need someone legit, or just call up the young guys, no sense in having Cole Hamels followed by a bunch of pitchers who should all be the #4 on your team

    If we aren’t getting a legit #2.. lets just use fill-ins like Carrasco, Kendrick.. and save our prospects, because taking Myers out of the rotation, and not replacing with someone better means that aren’t repeating as World Series Champions… and if we wouldn’t be repeating, why would we weaken the farm?

  49. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 9:57 am

    I like Bastardo as well, but does he have the stamina to be a starter? Those strikeouts/walk numbers are major league worthy right now at least out of the bullpen, the guy would own the 6th or 7th innings for a stretch of the season as he is or they could try to stretch out his arm to a starters stamina…

    Guys to stay away from: Bedard (d!ckhead, they wont get him because of that), Roy Oswalt (about 40+ M committed this year and the next two years, aging, delivery suggests eventual arm troubles), Cliff Lee (no way he can be as good as he was last year, would cost too much for just being a one year wonder), Washburn makes too much and would be a Moyer-type replacement., Doug Davis (why even bother? unles you want another Moyer-washburn type for cheap), Brad Penny (d!ckhead, ERA too high).

    I also would not trade Jayson Werth. Though Id trade Shane Victorino for someone as good as Halladay/Webb/Haren/Cain/J. Sanchez if they were actually available. I do agree Shane is overrated, he can be their best player sometimes and then disapppear for weeks at a time.

    Mayberry could play Right, Werth would slide to Center. But Id only consider it if youre getting a 1A/2 type abck in return for your package.

    Right now, theyll call up either Worley or Bastardo and try to buy some time. If that pans out then theyll have a little time to find a frontline guy to replace Moyer. If it doesnt pan out, then theyll get someone like Marquis or Cook or Washburn really soon and then still pan for a topline guy.

    Thats sort of the way I think itll shake out.

  50. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Bedard’s a tough sell, his values low but not so low he would be an easy deal. The second the Phils make a serious move other teams will do likewise.

    Washburn seems a more practical move to me though if the back-end of the rotation continues to struggle I wouldn’t rule out another move down the line as was anticipated. Myers is a free agent expected to walk, I think the Phils do the sensible thing and make a sideways move and take on the end of a contract and re-assess things nearer to the trade deadline.

  51. Ed

    May 29, 2009 at 10:06 am

    I hope they stay away from Bedard. We need a solid righty to go with Hamels. Two awesome lefties and garbage righties really doesn’t help much in the playoffs.

  52. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 10:10 am

    Can I just add a Moyer-like replacement is a bad thing? I agree win stat can be heavily overvalued but didn’t he lead us in wins last year? A guy like Doug Davis or Jarrod Washburn isn’t sexy but their pitching well this year, if they can do the job then in this situation you take it, a guy pitching for now can be just as effective as a guy pitching for his future.

  53. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Myers might be persuaded now to come back for a year or two on a deal to reestablish health/value so I wouldnt write him off just yet..

  54. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Wouldn’t rule out Myers ending up with Florida if they expand their payroll…

  55. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 10:19 am

    NJ I think the problem with a “moyer-like” replacement right now is that in CBP, if they make a mistake, they are going to get crushed. Davis and Washburn pitch in bigger parks than we do, so they get away with more mistakes. That won’t work here.
    I think if the Phils target a big name guy, it’s gotta be a strikeout, sinker ball type pitcher. In the meantime, that same sentiment could give Bastardo an advantage. Geoff as you mentioned his K:BB ratio is phenomenal.
    I guess another thing that wouldn’t surprise me is Andrew Carpenter. If the Phillies really want to take the wait and see approach, why risk pulling another Gavin Floyd with your prospects, if you are going to potentially replace them in 2 weeks anyways? Why not bring up Carpenter, let him get 2-3 starts in, then make your move, without damaging the cream of your crop.

  56. Richie

    May 29, 2009 at 10:27 am

    In my opinion, if Brett gets any indication that he can play this out…he will.

  57. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Let’s not overhype the “LEFTY” thing like people did before with Ibanez. If you can hit, you can hit..

    if you can pitch, you can pitch..

    Bedard has the most upside and talent of those guys.. Is Washburn any better than Happ right now? Is he any better than what Blanton showed vs. St Louis a few weeks ago, or in that brilliant 11 K game

    Bedard has a career ERA 3.72 (Washburn 4.11) … Washburn has given up mor than a hit per inning in his career, and gives up a HR every 7.8 innings.
    Bedard Ks about one per inning in his carerr, HR every 10.8 innings,

    Bedard is clearly the better option.. and from everything i’ve heard, he’s “weird” which is different from being a “D!ckhead”

  58. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Not a bad idea with Carpenter. I mean, he pitched ok. He would be to me someone like inbetween Jason Marquis and Doug Davis, but being a committed sinkerballer. Hed be a little less than a trade for a backend starter, but he really wouldnt be that bad, and would allow you to keep your farm intact for the next few weeks while you plot a major move.

    Thast a good idea.

  59. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 10:36 am

    I’m not 100% AGAINST getting a guy like Washburn.. I just don’t see that as the type of move that can win the division without Myers

    and if it only costs Kendrick, and Jason Donald.. do it.

    but I don’t want to see them lose a top prospect or two for a guy that isn’t much better than what we currently have on our farm.

    If we aren’t going to get a difference maker, why not just give Carrasco the nod

  60. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Bedard is clearly a better option that Washburn, Marquis, or Davis, and Cook. I agree.

    I just would be surprised if he came that quickly here in a trade. Charlie is a good people person though, so maybe a change of scenery can benefit Bedard? Plus, Raul knows him and can work with Charlie to get him acclimated to the environment. So its feasible that he might not necessarily also be a d!ckhead when he comes here…in the meantime, I compeltely agree that if youre not trading for a frontline guy right away, then bring up Worley, Bastardo, Or Drew Carpenter. None of those guys would be all that much worse (and maybe better in some cases) than trading for Jason Marquis, Doug Davis, Or Jarrod Washburn.

    Im in total agreement with that.

  61. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 10:41 am

    I don’t know that Worley is ready.. he’s putting up great numbers in AA, but he’s young, and very inexperienced.. that would be a lot of pressure on a guy to come up and have people expect anything from him.

    His numbers at this level wouldn’t be close to what he’s doing at AA-Reading

    Carpenter was just instead of Kendrick.. I don’t think he’s ready..

    I think its Carrasco or Bastardo.. and smart money is on them giving Carrasco the job with him knowing that he’s got to pitch well to stay there

  62. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 10:46 am

    But Don I think the problem with Carrasco is he is more mentally unsure of himself than the other pitchers in the system. If he comes up, crashes and burns, I think quite possibly lose him altogether. Carpenter has at least had a taste of the bigs, and could handle it a little better. Plus, he’s familiar with coming up and being sent down again already, so the situation wouldn’t be as big of a shock to him as a different prospect.

  63. Buffalophilsfan

    May 29, 2009 at 10:54 am

    I don’t like the idea of trading for a middle-of-the-road pitcher like Cook, Marquis, Washburn, etc. If Amaro is going to go that route, why not just call up one of the kids and give them a chance to “hold-the-fort” for awile? I saw Bastardo pitch yesterday in Buffalo and he was dealing. Went 7 strong innings and did not have a ball hit hard against him. He gave up 6 hits and 0 runs and looked ready to me. Granted, it was against the Mets farm team that is terrible (I thought you all would be happy to know that), but Bastardo’s stuff was electric and it is my guess he gets the first shot with the big club.

    If the Phills are going to pull the trigger on a trade now it has to be for a top of the rotation guy. I love Halliday but he is not going anywhere. Peavey?? Maybe. Oswalt, more likely. Something has to be done sooner rather than later.

    Another thought, Koplov has looked great at LV. Could he or Majewski be called up and Park moved back to the rotation?? I’m not for that as I think Park belongs in the Pen … I’m just throwing stuff out there!!

  64. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 10:55 am

    I dunno about Carrasco man, taht has Gavin Floyd written all over it. If they call him up while hes not dominating in AAA I dont like that..

  65. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Exactly my point with Carrasco. If he struggles, I fear he’d be done entirely. Carpenter is the safer bet, with Bastardo to follow after more innings at AAA.

  66. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Carpenter got POUNDED by the Nationals in his MLB debut.. the Phillies won in a rain-shortned game, where Carpenter got the WIN

    Despite 4.1 Innings Pitched, 8 hits, 5 ER, 3 walks, 4 K’s, 10.38 ERA, 2.54 WHIP

    we won 7-5 when the game was called due to rain..

    He’s not ready.. and that 4.1 of crappy innings doesn’t give me the least bit of confidence that he can “handle it a little better” than Carrasco, who by all accounts, needs to be challanged to perform at his best

  67. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Yeah my point was Carpenter isnt all that much worse than one of those back-end cheapo quick fixes on the market now. So if theyre going to call up someone Make it Worley, Bastardo, or if theyre going to gamble with Carrasco its better than trading him for a mediocre starter…

    Im at the point now where I think if youre going to trade then it better be someone really good, because trading good prospects for mediocre ptichers doesnt make sense.

  68. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Dominating AA or AAA doesn’t mean ANYTHING AT ALL compared to the big leagues..

    Kyle Drabek has been FILTHY so far in A-ball… doesn’t mean he’d be able to get anyone out in the majors..

    I’m just trying to brace everyone for reality.. they aren’t skipping over their top pitching prospect when its time to add a pitcher, just because Carpenter threw 4 lousy innings before in the big leagues.

    Maybe Carrasco isn’t ready.. maybe he just needs to be challanged..

  69. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Kendrick was called up from double A a couple years ago and did fine. Worley has better numbers and stuff than Kendrick, so i really don’t think he could fare any worse than Kendrick dude in….i believe 06′?

  70. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:10 am

    did*

  71. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 11:10 am

    but Don are you willing to destroy Carrasco over 4 MLB starts if you’re main goal is still to trade for a frontline starter? Also, what happens if he blows up? Guess who’s trade value gets destroyed, because you can bet he’ll need to be involved in any trade for an ACE.
    What i’m saying is that if your main goal is to trade for a frontline guy, then you need to bring up someone who can handle the stage for 3-4 starts, until you can bring that big fish in.

  72. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:18 am

    IF we’re getting a frontline starter… I could care less who they pitch, I would imagine it would be Kendrick or Carrasco still

    I was going on the notion that they don’t bring in anyone*.. and who would the full-time replacement be, which would be Carrasco over Carpenter (or anyone else)

    If you’re just looking for someone to fill-in for a few games, why not just got on the phone and make a deal happen today instead of giving away a few games with pitchers that aren’t ready? If the goal is to get “X” lets go get him instead of letting “Y” get three starts, and “Z” get two starts in the mean time

  73. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Bastardo is taking the spot of Carrasco as an untouchable, i think travis d’arnaud is losing his luster, he looks AWFUL at the plate in Lakewood, and ever since getting demoted from the Phils Marson hasn’t recovered. I may think about dealing d’arnaud now because if the Phils plan on replacing Ruiz after the season or whatever with Marson what point is there to keeping a guy that’s log jammed and isn’t even hitting low a ball pitchers. Dom Brown and Michael Taylor are almost assuredly untouchable as well as they are perceived as the future for this team.

  74. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:22 am

    What has Marson shown at all, that makes anyone think he’s close to taking Ruiz’s job?

    I’ve been saying this for a long time now, but Marson in no way looks like he’d be better than Ruiz at any phase of the game.. hitting, calling the game, or actual defense behind the plate..

    D’Arnaud is like 19 years old or something, lets not write him off just because some scouts labeled him as Johnny Bench Jr.. let him play a little while and get used to professional baseball

  75. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 11:23 am

    Justin rule #1 is that nobody is untouchable. I think all those names you just mentioned are in play. And Don M yes I think if we’re going on the notion of season long in house replacement, it’s probably Carrasco or Bastardo, with Carrasco having the edge. My reasoning for not immediately making a trade is that we will probably overpay for talent right now, because every team knows we’re hurting right now. I’d rather step back, assess our situation, then go after our target. But I understand your point.

  76. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:27 am

    I just don’t buy the notiion that WE* are the desperate team… we have young guys in our farm that we could use.

    Other teams have starters that they want to trade, or they’ll lose them after the season..

    So the other teams want to get their hands on our prospects just as much as we want that new pitcher..

    The Phillies aren’t foolish they aren’t going to sell their entire farm for a rental player, ala Milwaukee last year. We’ve seen how important home-grown talent is, and how important it is to be able to pay players $3 M per season instead of $13 M per season that you do for free agents

  77. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Steve-o if that’s true then why weren’t Madson, Howard, or Utley ever dealt when they were still in the minors, why has Carlos Carrasco never been dealt, because the Phillies management doesn’t waiver on guys they believe to be untouchable so to that I say even if they are mentioned they wouldn’t deal them for a rental like other teams would. I wouldn’t even imagine them dealing those untouchables to teams they would have to see in the NL, if anything it’d be an AL team they may have to see once every 4 years.

  78. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:31 am

    That dude Strasburg, tops out at 103 mph. DAMN He is Joe Dirtay.

    23 k’s in one game? Maybe the Nats can actually assemble some good starting pitching soon..

  79. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 11:35 am

    You have to keep your top 2-3 prospects I agree. If you do trade one of them, it better be for someone whos a frontline player who is NOT a rental. Thats why getting someone like Bedard, you better make sure you sign him to a contract before you make the deal otherwise your throwing away prospects for a guy who walks away for one maybe two draft picks IF those picks arent protected.

  80. Steve-o

    May 29, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Justin my answer to that is because we were never in a position where we needed to deal them. If you remember there was a time when we were talking about dealing Ryan Howard, because his path was at the time blocked by Jim Thome. It’s not that those players you mentioned were untouchable, just that we never needed to deal them for a rent a player, or stud to put us over the top. When those players were coming up, we were a team on the rise, but certainly not a team in the position to make an aggressive move to win the WS like we are now.

  81. Matt Kwasiborski

    May 29, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Here is my preference:
    1. Halladay- if he comes here, he may not lose another game with our offense. Think Rick Sutcliffe going to the Cubs in 84
    2. Peavy- Doesn’t want to uproot his family and is a flyball pitcher so his numbers won’t be as good as they are in Petco. Will cost less than Halladay just because the Pads want to shed his salary
    3. Bedard- he seems focused and injury free this year. I think he would welcome a return to the East Coast.

    Other than that, we can throw in a few young guys and see what they got. Our offense has proven it can carry a woeful pitching staff through some rough patches. We don’t need to jump the gun on the other junk out there just yet.

    And let’s not completely write off Blanton and Moyer. Blanton just pitched his best game as a Phillie and Moyer looks to be steadying. I think the Chan Ho demotion was a wakeup call to the rest of the staff. No need to panic at all, remember we are the WFC!

  82. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:41 am

    IMO. I believe the Phillies are going to pull a Milwaukee and trade for a Peavy, Bedard, Etc. I think their trying to have sustained success much like the Eagles. The Eagles build for the future, while being able to compete for a Championship every year. I would much rather them have sustained success then go from being on top of the league for three years. then become the Pirates for five…

    My hoarding all of their talent in the minors, taking their time with them, and making sure their ready to play is a way to acheive sustained success.

    While it’s nice to compete for a Championship in sort of a window, why not hold onto all of the pitching prospects and in 2-3 years, they’ll all be ready, combine that with Utley, Hamels, Howard, Werth, Victorino, Mayberry, they might be better then they are now. Theirs no telling what this team could do with an immensely improved, and young rotation, along with their formidable lineup.

    I’d like to hear your guys takes..

  83. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Well, I’ll just say this to everyone who wants us to keep ALL of our home grown talent. I we do it, we DEFINITELY, WITHOUT QUESTION, DON’T get to the World series this year. If we trade SOME of our home grown talent to bring in a Halladay or Peavy we DEFINITELY CAN get to the World Series this year. I select the latter. Here’s your choice:

    Hamels
    Peavy/ Halladay
    Marquis/Cook/etc.
    Blanton
    Happ/Moyer

    OR

    Hamels
    Marquis/Cook/etc.
    Blanton
    Happ
    Moyer

    OR

    Hamels
    Blanton
    Happ
    Moyer
    Carrasco/Bastardo/Carpenter/Worley

    The Dipsy

  84. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 11:46 am

    The prospect rankings change so much in such short spaces of time. Just look at Jaramillo who was once untouchable or if we’re thinking of Jason Donald I’m going to draw a comparison to the Tigers trading Matt Joyce, the organisation has to look at the prospects and see who helps and how and they have the scouting reports we don’t.

    The problem with assembling a package of prospects to acquire the ‘get over the top’ guy is it does hurt the team which is what’s so funny about Jake Peavy’s trade demands. To often those kind of deals either set a team back or does nothing but just address one problem creating another.

    Rentals make sense especially for the Phils who have to think about how they can contend in October for the next decade which this team is capable of. Look at the Lohse or Moyer deals, an off-the-radar short-term acquisition for a marginal minor leaguer or two can have great effect and you most guys will walk with type B status at the very least. It’s not sexy, it’s good baseball management, if you want to go shopping at every opportunity and scrutinise every position that doesn’t have an all-star calibre player just ask the Yankees and Mets how that works out.

  85. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 11:47 am

    The prospect rankings change so much in such short spaces of time. Just look at Jaramillo who was once untouchable or if we’re thinking of Jason Donald I’m going to draw a comparison to the Tigers trading Matt Joyce, the organisation has to look at the prospects and see who helps and how and they have the scouting reports we don’t.

    The problem with assembling a package of prospects to acquire the ‘get over the top’ guy is it does hurt the team which is what’s so funny about Jake Peavy’s trade demands. To often those kind of deals either set a team back or does nothing but just address one problem creating another.

    Rentals make sense especially for the Phils who have to think about how they can contend in October for the next decade which this team is capable of. Look at the Lohse or Moyer deals, an off-the-radar short-term acquisition for a marginal minor leaguer or two can have great effect and most guys will walk with type B status at the very least. It’s not sexy, it’s good baseball management, if you want to go shopping at every opportunity and scrutinise every position that doesn’t have an all-star calibre player just ask the Yankees and Mets how that works out.

  86. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 11:49 am

    If we want Halladay or Peavy (both slim to no chance of happening)

    It would cost: Carrasco, Bastardo, Donald-or-Marson, and Werth-or-Victorino

    4 players in total..

    It would make our pitching better RIGHT NOW.. but also weaken our lineup.. and we wouldn’t have anyone ready to take Moyer, Blanton, Myers’ spots in the rotation after next season..

    I don’t think Bedard would cost that much, and I think he would improve the rotation greatly

  87. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 11:51 am

    I think it should be something along the lines of:

    Hamels
    Bedard/Harang/Haren/Webb/Buerhle
    Blanton
    Happ
    Carrasco/Bastardo/Worley

    I think that you definitely are right that they arent going to the world series again if they just rely on Moyer and throw some young guys in..matter of fact illl guarantee they wont even make the playoffs if they do that. Young arms are effective but theyre going to have growing pains at the major league level. Remember how it took happ a while to get his legs under him. Now hes dealing – he showed me hes legit when he SHUT DOWN the yankee lineup – even though I hate the yankees thats a really really good lineup..

    The key is NOT relying on Moyer. They definitely need a horse up there to replace Brett’s production.

  88. psujoe

    May 29, 2009 at 11:54 am

    I wouldn’t mortgage the future for Peavy. It looks like Blanton figured out what was wrong with his mechanics. I know, only one game, but he did make some good adjustements. So let’s hope we can get it done with:

    Hamels
    Bedard
    Blanton
    Moyer
    Happ

    If Moyer can’t get it done then turn to the minors, but I’d like a deal for Bedard. Sooner rather than later.

  89. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Hamels Hamels
    Halladay Peavy
    Cook Cook (or Marquis, who couldn’t hack it in Chicago)
    Blanton Blanton
    Moyer Funny

    Firstly it would be Halladay/Peavy THEN Hamels and secondly coupled with another deal you have to be joking, no-one would have the squeeze for that and come out the other side without being weaker overall. Trade suggestions to easily turn into fantasy/playstation deals.

    (apologies for the double post above)

  90. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Haren? Didn’t the d-backs trade about 6 players for him and signed him? They won’t trade him.

    Webb is hurt, i wouldn’t look into that too much.

    Buerhle, he’s quite old isn’t he? I don’t know about giving up a bunch of prospects for him.

    Bedard, wouldn’t mind him one bit.

  91. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:57 am

    WRONG. Look at it this way. Even if that were the deal, Marson would go. He’s not playing here anytime soon. Carrasco can go. Bastardo would hurt. Werth or Vic can go, wouldn’t like it, but our offense is good enough to withstand it. Then you can: plug Donald in OR trade for an outfielder. Trading for an outfielder should not be that difficult OR platoon Donald and Dobbs OR put Mayberry in there. See…..not so bad is it?

    The Dispy

  92. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Webb, Haren, Beurle? Fine. Actually, I’d rather have Webb than Peavy.

    The Dipsy

  93. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Mark Buerhle is 28/29

  94. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Harang/Webb/Haren I’d be in favor of but I don’t know what kind of ransom a team like the Reds or DBacks would ask for for each of them. It also rests on their contract situations. Webb if he’s not in his contract year he’s close to it and is going to want a huge payday which he’s already asking the Dbacks for. It will likely cost a good chunk of the farm system to get either of those 3 from their teams as they’ll likely ask for the same pieces the Padres and Indians will/have asked for. Everyone’s looking for the return the Indians got back for Sabathia. Especially after what the Padres couldn’t get when Peavy vetoed the White Sox.

  95. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Haren’s ungettable short of sending everything you have plus your grandma.

    Please guys don’t EXPECT Peavy, Halladay, Webb or anyone similar who ‘may’ be available. The idea is incredibly exciting but any of those deals are going to be hard for any team in the league. Just look at how the Cubs fell short of Peavy and they have much more juice in the payroll and farm.

    After the Blanton deal (which was way below his asking price 6 months before) we should know how difficult even a deal for Cook or anyone similar would be and then a year down the line the same people will be screaming about what a bad deal it was and how we shouldn’t have traded the prospects we did.

  96. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    I kind of think the Phils could work a small trade out for Penny that could be a good deal, or sign Sheets if he’s proven that he can pitch to his All Star caliber. But who knows I think the Red Sox want Donald in return for Penny who seems to be a utility infielder in the future for the Phillies if he doesn’t become the everyday 3rd baseman. The Pigs are moving him between SS/2nd/and 3rd changing him up to get him use to those 3 positions.

  97. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Geoff, I think you’re the only guy ive seen naming Haren as a possibility.. and I don’t think he is.

    They traded for him and then resigned him.. I’ve seen that they might offer Webb around, but with Webb hurting, and Haren under contract, why would they move him now?

  98. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    The Dipsy you seem to speak like you have the inside track on the organisation, who says Marson isn’t playing here soon? or Donald is ready to come up? We don’t know, we can only speculate but not with an kind of authority.

    And what we’d rather have is irrelevant, some talk like the front office and ownership are the big evil and the preventer of ‘real’ success, but what about Toronto’s front office or Arizona or even Colorado or Seattle, their not doing any of us Philly fans a favour and are going to squeeze out everything they can for their guys and we’re not buying with the tag low like we did with Blanton.

  99. Sean Chase

    May 29, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    No trade will be made until July. Most likely after all star week. That is when teams decide to make a run for october or not. The way the D Backs are struggling, they may be ready to move Webb. The way the Blue Jays are struggling in the best division in baseball, they may be ready to move a pitcher or two. Until then give the ball to Kendrick. He’s proven he can do it…Sinker, sinker, sinker.

    Dobbs step it up, boy!

  100. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    I idont want Peavy…tahts a trap trade…

    Haren might not even be available…same with Buerhle and Webb. Matt LaPorta is very good, yes, but can anyone remmeber the other guys in the trade? no>? I dont think they were all that highly regarded.

    The point is where does it say that you have to trade jayson werth? Hes not going anywhere. I could see victorino going btu thats not necessary either.

    also, werth is THE only RH power we have that we know can play at the big league level (mayberry probably can but we cant say for sure)

  101. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Mayberry sucks.. and Donald can’t try to learn the OF at the major league level

    Feliz has a $5 M team option for next season.. if he’s healthy, I’d imagine the Phillies sign him up for one more season.. meaning that Donald is most likely going to be traded at the deadline this year.

  102. Sean Chase

    May 29, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Phillies Players mentioned that YOU CANNOT TRADE!

    -Jayson Werth
    -Shane Victorino
    -Jason Donald
    -Antonio Bastardo

    Can trade:
    -Lou Marson
    -Antonio Bastardo
    -John Mayberry Jr.
    -Greg Dobbs
    -Eric Bruntlett
    -Mike Cervenack

  103. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Of course I don’t have the inside track. If the Phils think that Marson is better than Ruiz, then trade Ruiz. I don’t much care either way. Can’t keep em both. Respectfully, I cite my own common sense rather than knowledge of the organization. I just know you can’t play two catchers. Moving on, just for shits and giggles, lets assume both teams would make that deal (and Toronto would be getting a good deal, btw), the Phils aren’t “mortgaging” their future. they have a deep farm system and we’re keeping our best prospects (with the exception of Bastardo). i.e. Drabek, Taylor, Brown, Knapp, Worley.

    The Dipsy

  104. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    You have to trade or let walk one of Victorino or Werth in the coming future, with Rollins, Utley, Howard all reaching free agent years and with the salaries of guys like Lidge, Romero, Madson or the equivalent at that point down the line few teams can afford to have almost all their players in their money years so one will go.

  105. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Kendrick is horrible at pitching..

    He’s proven that he’s horrible at pitching, BECAUSE he thorws Sinker, sinker, sinker… and MLB hitters adjusted to him and started knocking him all over the yard

  106. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    Oh, Mayberry sucks? OK. Well, we can cut him outright OR let him go for the AAA triple crown. I thought Donald has been learning the OF at AAA. If I’m wrong, I stand corrected. Move Cervenack? Great idea. Maybe he and Jeremy Slayden and Taschner can get you…..uh…….ummmm….never mind.

    The Dipsy

  107. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Toronto (or equivalent) will be seeing things very different on any guys headed their way and it’s not like we have a Matt LaPorta (and it’s no shame not to have one of the best prospects in baseball because you can’t predict who will be), we can’t just easily say who the best prospects are just by looking at their minor league numbers especially since now were discarding the last bunch of guys who hadn’t played above AA for another group who… haven’t played above AA. What about what other teams are willing to offer, everyone will move on Webb if he is available and suddenly the price has gone up past whats being suggested let alone what it would cost if the Phils stay in the bidding.

    As for Ruiz he’s far from intrenched like Lieberthal was, it’s expected he’ll be passed and become a back-up or let walk to find his money down the road. Marson isn’t up because he’s not ready, not because he’s blocked, he hasn’t got the equivalent of Jim Thome blocking him.

  108. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Talking of sinkerball pitchers… Remember sinkerballs put balls in play and those balls can find the gaps mightily easy. Careful what you wish for as when sinkerballs go bad you see innings far worse than giving up the 2 or 3 run shot.

  109. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    I was pretty sure they were trying to teach Donald how to play 3b, since they didn’t have a good 3b prospect in the system.. and they have 2 VERY GOOD Outfield prospects in Michael Taylor, and Dominic Brown

    SUCKS is a strong word.. I just don’t want to see Werth or Victorino go..

    ***
    … Im getting mixed feelings about all this.. think about the current window with Ibanez, Howard, Rollins (Utley and Hamels should be here for a while)..

    and it really seems like they do need to get MLB READY PLAYERS for their prospects right now!!

    Its just a move that can bite you, but in reality.. we have no idea which young guys will turn out to be great.. and while we have a roster full of Best-Ever-Phillies we need to keep this postseason run going

    I still think that Halladay and Peavy are out of the question.. I think Bedard (Donald could be a nice 3b for them?) and Cook would be great upgrades to the rotation.

    Hamels, Bedard, Cook, Happ, Blanton … that would be strong enough to make another postseason run.

  110. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Donald has no position but a platoon possibly next season at 3rd. Bastardo I know is high on the Phils charts so I’d say he’s close to untouchable unless they’re going after a Peavy type pitcher. With Moyer being a possibility to hang em up at any given moment, if you read Jayson Starks column on Rumblings & Grumblings. There’s a spot in the rotation for a new lefty to take his spot, which would then give Bastardo a chance to make a play for it, maybe not this season or not til September but definitely next season at the latest. All the trade talk in the world won’t change what the Phils will do which is what they always do, similar to the Eagles. Talk to these teams about their high priced arms get the what is being asked for then when they don’t make the trade they’ll sit back and say hey we tried, price was too high. I see Brad Penny being the deal they go after, a former ace who is gettable for cheaper rate then Peavy/Buerhle/Webb/Haren/Harang/Bedard etc.

  111. Chuck P

    May 29, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Armchairing a bit… if there’s any chance that we can get Halladay, I’m all about it. I would deal Carrasco, Marson and Werth to get it done, too… probably not Victorino. I can’t believe that the BJ’s would let him go.

    Would also LOVE to see Haren come to Philadelphia… he’s a beast.

    Bastardo looks like a rising star… Knapp has also been phenomenal. 97 MPH with the courage to throw inside.

    All in all, we have the chips.

  112. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Right, but Marson isn’t ready.. and in my opinion.. he isn’t even close..

    Its not like your looking at Carrasco who could arguably be the #5 right now with how bad our pitching has been.

    Ruiz has been swinging a good bat, and has been good as always behind the plate.. Marson looked very overmatched when he was up here.


    MLBTR said Buster Olney was wondering about Jason Donald to the RedSox for Brad Penny (its not a rumor, just him thinking outloud)..

    there was also listed that Brandon Webb has an $8.5 M club option for 2010, with a $2 M buyout
    (Webb’s value is rock bottom LOW right now.. definitely worth checking into.. and if he’s stll hurt, you eat $2 M on his buyout)

  113. Bruce

    May 29, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Oh hum… sorry for intruding here among the GM wanna be’s and their wish list that has long ago overtaken the orginal thread on Meyers. I thought I throw a curve here for any reaction. I’m reposting a portion of my text here from another thread.

    “There is a question in my mind about Myers that has not been brought up here or even by Tim Malcolm. It was reported that Myers has had this hip inflammation in various degrees of discomfort even before the season started. Did Myers withhold this information from Manuel and pitching coach, Dubee in hopes he could ride out the pain as the season started? Was there another reason for him not to reveal this problem that eventually got worst? Did he have concerns about his soon to be expired contract and possible free agency route during the off season? I hope not. I bring this up because I can not understand why an athlete making an enviable living would not take better care of his body in a profession that demands great physical exertion. If indeed Myers deliberately kept silent with his ongoing problem, he did a disservice to his team and himself.”

  114. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    According to Buster Olney:
    “But it may be that Peavy won’t accept a trade to Philadelphia (he already turned down Chicago), and in any event, the cost of a Peavy deal might be prohibitive for the Phillies, whose farm system is improving but is still seen as being relatively thin.”

    aka: No Peavy, and our farm is still thin..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Because they gave up so much to GET Bedard, they should wait for his value to keep climbing:
    “In fact, it might behoove the Mariners to wait a little bit for the pitching market to play out and for Bedard to keep taking the ball and re-establishing himself as a dominant presence. On the face of it, the chances of the Phillies finding a relatively quick and reasonable deal for Bedard appear long.”


    And our window is still open for 2009, we should still go for it:
    “Phillies GM Ruben Amaro must continue to try to win in 2009, as Salisbury noted, and he’s dead right. The Phillies’ window of opportunity for success is still wide open.

    Peavy, Oswalt, Garland, Marquis, Duke, Bedard, Penny. All could be options.”

  115. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Thank you Don M and Chuck P (are you related to Chuck D. from Public Enemy). Ruiz IS entrenched because A) he’s great, thats right, great, defensively; B) the pitchers love him; C) He’s not an offensive liability. And NJ, give us a break with that stupid sinkerball comment. We have a great defensive infield and we play in a band box. Grounders are the way to go. I thought more of you than that. Are you looking to guard against “seeing eyes” singles???

    The Dipsy

  116. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Buster Olney is almost always wrong..keep that in mind. but his proposed trade of Jason Donald for Brad Penny is a HORRIBLE IDEA. THat is a stupid ass trade.

    Brad Penny would be a complete disaster here, and as we know you cant just arbitratily trade someone JUST because theyre blocked. Trading Marson and Donald for a guy like Penny is still a bad trade even if theyre blocked. Thats no excuse to make a stupid trade. Ruben: PLEASE DONT MAKE THIS TRADE!

  117. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    I don’t think Myers was “trying to hide anything” .. it bothered him a little in NY, but he was filthy in that game..

    and it started bothering him this past game, and it got the better of him.

    All professional athletes play through pain, and if you make a big deal out of nothing, you get labeled as “soft” and your teammates lose faith in you. They’d rather see you go out a battle than sit out a couple games cause you aren’t 100%

    I sometimes wish Hamels would be as tough as Myers, and have a little bit more of that GIVE ME THE BALL attitude (of course I’d rather have Hamels over Myers though)

  118. pb

    May 29, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    The Paul Bako signing is making sense now he’s insure for when they trade Marson…. Last season I was apposed to trading Lou Marson… now I much rather trade him then some of our pitching prospects… besides if Chooch keeps playing like this he’ll be able to hold fort down until Travis D’Arnaud is ready anyways

    Sorry Lou you will be traded this year

  119. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I just wish everyone posting on Erik Bedard would stop posting about him, no one in their right mind would pay the equivalent to what they will ask for. Top Pitching Prospect (Drabek/Carrasco/Bastardo you choose), MLB-caliber ready outfielder (Mayberry/Werth/Taylor) and throw-in player. Not worth that price they paid in Chris Tillman, Adam Jones and George Sherill. Plus he’s a rent a player COMPLETELY not worth it.

    I like Webb and would roll the dice depending the price the Dbacks put on him.

    On the Werth/Victorino front Victorino i think may be in his last year or 2nd to last year of Arbitration while Werth has the 2 yr contract so I think both are done in 2 years specially with Taylor and Mayberry being ready to take at least 1 of their spots. Dom Brown could be ready to be the everyday centerfielder in 2 years but Quintin Berry lower OF prospect could be ready in 2 years for sure since he’s already in Reading and a leadoff man for the team. Just throwing out those tidbits for people saying it’s time for one of Werth or Victorino to walk.

  120. Chuck P

    May 29, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    Regarding the future of the team… why not go for it now? I think that the Phillies front office would have to be CRAZY to let the window shut on this squad (the future is now). Right now, ticket sales couldn’t be higher and a new fan is born with every sellout. You gotta ride this wave a couple more years and then you’ll have enough in the bank to reload… you gotta keep the fans energized so that they continue to believe that this organization is serious about winning.

  121. pb

    May 29, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    insure = insurance, my bad

  122. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    I added in that Buster Olney was not reporting a trade rumor.. he was simply saying how they need a SS, and we need a starting pitcher.. both teams can give the other what they are looking for in a win-win situation

    He didn’t say that either team was talking or thinking about making such a trade

    Brad Penny has Geoff’s favorite stat in 4-of-5 starts though.. QUALITY STARTS..

  123. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    I dont think Bedard would fetch THAT high an asking price.. he’s not Jake Peavy.. and he’s not Roy Halladay.

    It would probably cost 3 solid prospects..

    The problem with Webb is that he isn’t ready to pitch right now, and you don’t know how healthy he would be for the remainder or this season, and his career.

    Bedard could come here, and be what we expect from Day One.

  124. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    The Dippy do us a favour and stop trying to act like the big man, this a message board, I’m right and know more than you ego’s are just boring.

    Yes we have a very good defensive infield but around the league some sinkerballs can’t get out of innings because of the consequence of cheap hits and CBP isn’t a completely different entity to the other parks in the league, it has its differences and tendencies but you don’t put a sinkerballer here and its black and white.

    A pitchers a pitcher no matter what he throws, great ones adjust to their environment.

  125. Chuck P

    May 29, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Since Mayberry is with the team right now, they obviously feel like he’s ready to step in… under that assumption, it makes sense that Werth/Vic would be expendable. I love them both but something has got to give, right?

    I agree that Ruiz has solidified himself as the franchise catcher… and not because he’s mired in a hot streak. He solidified himself as the franchise catcher last year. His defense is superb… the guy doesn’t allow passed balls, he has a cannon and can block the plate as well as anyone. His hitting is average and that’s fine. Marson might be a better batsmith but I’ll take Chooch in a NY minute.

    Buster Olney is a turd.

  126. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Remember Bedard’s an impeding free agent, the difficulty guessing his value is he’s caught between the value of the deal he was traded for and that of very good but not elite impending free agents. There was also grumblings of him being non-tendered last year so I’d think his value would be near that of Adam Dunn’s last year.

  127. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    But his ERA is almost 6…and as we know ERA is more important. Hed be the trade a desperate team would make…even though the phillies are desperate.

  128. mikemike

    May 29, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Bedard I am reading is a real cry baby, gets to a certain pitch count wants to come out. Won’t pitch if he isn’t feeling right ,bad clubhouse guy, but this is not my thought but writers who cover the team. The thing is if we have four lefthanders and most of them aren’t that much different as far as fastball changeup. big advantage to the hitters. that’s is why teams like right left keep the other team off balance

  129. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Im not even sure what anyone is talking about on here right now.. there are 7 different converstaions going on

  130. Chuck P

    May 29, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Dipsy Do… ha… that’s funny.

    Does anyone else find it hard to concentrate with that McFadden’s girl in the upper left hand corner?

  131. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Hey NJ, it would be nice if you not deprecate others when you feel like they may have the better side of an argument than you. Its childish. Yes, we should all be mindful of the CHF (Cheap Hits Factor) because its much more important the the LDLLAYFF (Live Drives Leaving Lacemarks Across Your Face Factor).

    The Dispy

    p.s. NJ, when are you going to start YOUR own site so we can all ignore it?

  132. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Line Drives, excuse me.

    The Dispy

  133. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    I will finally admit though that Ruiz is the catcher for the foreseeable future..Marson regressed since they sent him back down.

    NJ…when Blanton is on his game he is throwing that sharp sinker/slider combo you saw the other day. aside from hamels…pitchers that keep the ball on teh ground with sinkers and cutters are the type that do well in this ballpark. lidge is struggling because hes not spotting his fastball low in the zone (not a sinker). the relievers at this park that do well keep it low..just like the starters…

    all these sinkerballers come in here and own teh phillies because they keep the ball down and throw sliders and changeups to complement their low fastballs..because thats what works in this ballpark!

    obviously, an ace is an ace…and theyre good anywhere…but that doesnt mean that total flyball pitcher like peavy would be AS good if he came here.

  134. J A Happy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Hey dipsy,caus the pitchers love him? WTF look at thier era’s, they need somebody to put a foot up thier rumps

  135. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Dippy doo dah maybe your ‘thoughts’ might be more valid if you didn’t feel the need to be the only person to sign every post with your name. Every point you make is from a position of my view is an absolute and f’ck anyone that doesn’t agree and it pisses me off, you post like you don’t come on here to discuss, you post on here hoping for people to agree with you.

    I don’t post to have people agree with me but it just gets on my nerves when some of which your on the very top of the list can’t see past your own arguments and feel like you need to beat your arms on your chest with the most popular view possible.

  136. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    No..No..No…NJ’s right. Just ask him.

    The Dipsy

  137. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    lets all talk about how the Mets suck instead of cyber-arguing

  138. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Appreciate the comment on it Geoff, what I really meant to say is I don’t think we should get hung up on searching for sinkerballers and miss the boat on other guys who might get the job done with what they have.

  139. Bruce

    May 29, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Don M~ Before I leave this thread, I want to respond to your comment..”..all professional athletes play through pain”. Knowing your body and its’ tolerance and the source of the pain is one thing; but when not knowing the source or seriousness of the pain and lightly dismiss it is jeopardizing your professional livelihood.

    FYI..from Philly.com: “Landis (Myers’ agent) confirmed that the hip has bothered Myers sporadically over the past few seasons. He acknowledged that the condition could have contributed to the puzzling loss of velocity that Myers has experienced at times over the past 2 years.”

    Again it begs the question of whether or not the Phillies’ organization were aware of this.

  140. J A Happy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Go Jersey go

  141. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    OK cheers I’m right, don’t know exactly what I’m right on apart from your wrong and have a fantasy idea of baseball.

  142. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    I agree that we don’t “NEED” a new pitcher to throw sinkers, because that doesn’t mean anything..

    I think going after a GROUND BALL PITCHER is important though, and often times those guys happen to have good sinkers.

    Aaron Cook is a GROUND BALL PITCHER, but between him and Erik Bedard, I’d rather have Bedard.

    I’d love to have both of them, and repeat as WS Champs though..

  143. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    NJ, I’m glad if I gave you the opportunity to unburden yourself of some hostility. Holding it in just creates stress and as we all know, stress is a killer. But I am curious to know what relation the manner in which I sign off on my posts has to do with the validity of its content. Please get back to me on that one…..when you’re not meeting with Pat Gillick and Dave Montgomery. Moving forward, perhaps I have been phrasing my posts in a rather pushy manner. For this I am sorry and I will make it a point to try and change. Starting now. I think that Lou Marson is expendable beacuse we have Ruiz at C and that perhaps getting a stud starter would be in the Phils best interests at this point. What do you think? Go Phils!

    Humbly,

    The Dispy

  144. GWFightinsFan

    May 29, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    I definitely think that because Mayberry is still with the team means that they’re preparing to trade either Werth or Victorino along with a prospect or two for that pitching help we need.

  145. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    I hope to God you’re wrong GW,

    Mayberry can’t protect Howard in the lineup.. meaning that Howard and Ibanez will see ZERO pitches to hit

  146. NJ

    May 29, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Only made a point of it because it seems arrogant, hostilities dropped.

    I agree Marson is expendable to some degree as he doesn’t stand above other prospects at his position with a little depth at the catcher position. I don’t know how good the Phils are going to feel about Ruiz in his money years, his bats improved greatly and is excellent defensively but will that be enough when everyones looking for the next Salty or Wieters or at the minimum a Yadier?

    Good throw in, Go Phils!

  147. Memphis

    May 29, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Interesting take from Jayson Stark, ESPN chat — he says Marquis and Penny are likely the more realistic options IF we want to get something done very soon. If we’re willing to wait, maybe Bedard or Oswalt become (more) available, but it seems like it will take a lot of prospects to get either.

    We should see at least one of the young guys, Bastardo, Carrasco, Kendrick, get a few starts, but after the Nats, the schedule gets a little tougher (SD, LA, Mets, Boston).

  148. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    I don’t know that we need to worry about having the best Catcher or even Catching PROSPECT in baseball (Salt or Wieters) ..

    Salty never looked that great to me, and there is talk of Wieters moving to 1b/ DH

    Ruiz has proved he’s “good enough” and to me, he looks better and more comfortable this year then he did in 2008

    He’s 30 years old, but I think he’s only been Catching for a few years (he was a 2b prospect I think?) .. so he’s got a good 3-4 years behind the dish, pretty much when you would expect Travis D’Arnaud to be ready, or giving us plenty of time to draft/obtain other Catching prospects

  149. Marc H

    May 29, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    I wiuld like to get a look at Bastardo before making a trade

  150. Chuck P

    May 29, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    I think that a good pitcher is going to be a good pitcher regardless whether he knows how to induce groundballs or lazy flyballs. Even in CBP, a good flyball pitcher can be effective… would he be better served in a place like San Diego? Maybe, but he can still do a fine job here.

  151. Marc H

    May 29, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    I would like to get a look at Bastardo

  152. The Dispy

    May 29, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    LOL. the only point that I will not vascillate on NJ is that the Phillies have to throw all in right now. If they have to deviate from their money philosophy re: service time, arbitration, and the like, well they just should. “Deviate” does not mean “throw out the window”. If it might make their collective lives a little harder in 2012 to win in 2009, well……thats very often a consequence of the “win now” philosophy. Its seems like you, my new friend NJ, espouse the “whoa, lets not get crazy here and do something rash” approach. Nothing wrong with it. It promotes long term health, stability and a good team for a longer period of time (see: Philadelphia Eagles). Keeping your farm system pumping and promoting from within is ideal. I think we all wanna be very competitive every year and use the farm to do that since we can’t spend $200 million a year. But we’re not that team. And now we’re two pitchers down and we have a series a world series contender on our hands. I think we have to do something over and above sticking our fingers in the dikes (although I would stick my finger in a dyke). I hope we all agree that some meaningful action should be taken. Lets sacrifice a reasonable amount of future for a lot of “now”.

    “He who hesitates is lost”.

    The Dispy

  153. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Joe Mauer is awesome though…Carlos Ruiz really is a good catcher though but Mauer is in another category…

  154. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    after these next 6 games, we see UNREAL lineup for the rest of the month

    4 at LA
    3 at NYM
    3 vs BOSTON
    3 vs TORONTO
    3 vs BALTIMORE
    3 at Tampa Bay
    3 at TORONTO

    .. you can’t be throwing Kyle Kendrick’s out there, they won’t get out of the 3rd inning

  155. Georgie

    May 29, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Bruce, I’ve noticed Myers looking like he’s in discomfort after games since early in the season. I attributed it to his “mental” state, but if you saw his postgame interview when he was asked about his hip, he looked scared sh!tless, eyes all bulgy, said in a shaky voice “I am scared, I HATE needles, man.” Haha, how do you feel about scalpels, drills and saws, big boy? When they wheeled me into the OR for a knee replacement, there was a table along the wall with big ‘things” covered with white sheets. I yelled at someone “Hey, what’s under those sheets?” Last thing i heard was someone chuckling and saying “You don’t wanna know”. OH,FUUUUUUU…….. zzzzzzzzzzz.

  156. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    He who hesitates, master baits … you know how it really goes

  157. beta sigma shag

    May 29, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    I think it crazy talk to trade any of our position players now, peroid we either need to see of any of prospects can pitch in the bigs now why not. It a couple of bad starts ruins them mentally at 22-23 years old they are not built for this game. Or trade some prospects for a starter. I am sorry but Marson is going to be servicable but not great IMO so he can go, also a young arm or two and see what we can get. We should not be greedy right now and destroy our farm system for one year, lets look long term and be a little patient now for once thanks for listening

  158. Lets go Mets.

    May 29, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    You guys are lucky that half of the METS lineup is hurt right now…but there is no way you guys are going to continue to win with your pitching.

    I think your best option would be to take a chance on Ben Sheets. He is a free agent and if he returns to old form he is a #1. I could see him signing with Texas though who he agreed to terms with before he had his surgery. Both the Mets and Phils both need some pitching help. Mets need another bat also. Things will get interesting.

  159. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    I just think that our current lineup is what helps make us such a strong team..

    if you trade one of the everyday players (OUTFIELDERS) for a guy that only plays 6-7 innings of every 5th game.. it hurts more than it helps

    I’m fine with trading some prospects..

    The question is who of Michael Taylor and Dominic Brown is the real deal??

    Taylor is hitting well, with some power and speed in AA.. but Brown is the higher rated prospect, but he’s farther away from Big League ready.

  160. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Anyone ever see the movie “Awake” with the guy from the newer Star Wars? That’s some messed up stuff, the guy was given an anesthetic and was still awake and felt EVERYTHING, when they sliced him open to take out his heart, for a replacement. I think that might be worse then seeing the big things under a sheet and not know what happens after that.

  161. Griffin

    May 29, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    The Phils should trade Travis Lee, Vicente Padilla, Omar Daal and Nelson Figueroa for a future HOFer.

  162. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    I agree…Im not all about moving position players either unless a fantasy video game trade magically happens, this is TOO good of a lineup.

    Thats a tough one…ONE of those two guys (Taylor, Brown) will be an everyday OF for us…Taylor has the power and would replace Raul at the end of the three year deal he has. Brown would replace Victorino in CF eventually and eventually be our leadoff hitter. thats a tough one…do you go with the power or the speed?

  163. Georgie

    May 29, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Justin, you never know what may happen when you go to the hospital, it could be just like Hostel/Hostel II…..

    Sorry for the off-topic, but I found quite a bit of irony in Brett’s reaction, that’s usually the way it is though.

  164. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    on MLBTR:

    “SI’s Jon Heyman writes about Erik Bedard, who may just be the best pitcher available this summer. His contract’s not a problem, and I should mention that unlike Jake Peavy, Bedard does not have no-trade protection.

    Heyman believes that Bedard would probably require a better package than the one the White Sox were going to send to San Diego for Peavy.

    He likes the Phillies, White Sox, and Brewers as possible suitors. “

  165. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    I told you, the Mariners are going to require a king’s ransom for him. Not worth it at all.

  166. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    I’d like to see what our in house options offer before trading away prospects, if they’re good it will only enhance their value.

  167. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    I don’t think that they’ll get their King’s Ransom for him though… they need to trade him cause they’d rather have any decent prospects instead of two draft picks..

    they need guys that can help them within a year or two.. not four to five years

  168. Brooks

    May 29, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Most widely talked about subject for a long time.
    Phils need to make a move now, much more benefits the team if they get even 1 bonifide starter that is not too old, not too set in his ways that being part of a real team would be a good fit. No prima donnas – no head cases. We need a team player but a good shot in the arm.
    Marson would probably be the most enticing offer.

  169. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    I agree…from us Id only expect seattle to get:

    A Prospects: (PICK ONE) Michael Taylor or Dominic Brown or Carlos Carrasco or Vance Worley or Antionio Bastardo/Donald/Marson
    B Prospects: (Choose ONE) Joe Savery or Andrew Carpenter or Kyle Kendrick or Mike Stutes
    C Prospects: choose TWO

  170. Sean Chase

    May 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Maybe the Phillies are the only team that cannot hit-sinker, sinker, sinker.

  171. psujoe

    May 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    How do the Phils pitchingprospects comapre to the two top rated guys the White Sox offerred? Two other players were involved.

    Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard.

  172. Ed

    May 29, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    How about keeping Brown and Taylor? The both are simply ripping up the minors. And Taylor is 23/24, that means he is coming in for werth, not ibanez. These 2 are the all around hitting prospects since Chase. Both are proving this year that last year was not a fluke. If the season were to end today, Brown is a top 20 (at least) prospect and Taylor is close behind. I know we need a pitcher, but trading those two or Drabek is not smart planning for the future. I know we have to give in order to get, but those three are future all stars. Anyone else can go.

  173. I'm Chutly

    May 29, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    The Mets will trade you Oliver Perez for 1Glove, 5 Baseballs, and a gross of jock straps. Good deal for the Phillies. Phillies need a pitcher and the Mets need jockstraps

  174. Lets go Mets.

    May 29, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I would say thats an even trade

  175. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    How about we trade a pocket knife to the Muts for Oliver Perez, since they need to cut themselves free from choking every september

  176. Lets go Mets.

    May 29, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    hey justin you might want to think about keeping that knife if chan ho parking lot is coming back into the rotation

  177. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    What i don’t understand is a couple years ago when they were stuck, they brought up Kendrick and threw him into the fire.

    Now why can’t they do that with one of their highly tauted prospects, whom most likely has more potential and stuff than KK will ever have?

    Why go the wait and see route with pitchers who are presumably better then KK was ever?

    Anyone want to shed some light..

  178. mikemike

    May 29, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Poreda is consider a 4-5 type or most likely a relief pitcher. Clayton is 25 I believe and projects as a seventh inning guy, Anyone who mention Dominic Brown for a pitcher I hope you are wrong. Dominic Brown is a 6’5, 5 tool player and they are hard to find, He was a great football player who was committed to florida state I belive it was state, the phillies overpaid his slot selection to get him. His potential is unlimited, Taylor is a monster but not a five tool stud like brown, two players who we should never give up are Drabek and Brown, Keith law who was a scout and now work on espn, rated brown one of the top5 in all of minors, and he is still rising, this is a fleet outfielder who is starting to show power, The phillies don’t move prospects fast but if this was another orginization brown would be at double a or triple a, The red light on Taylor is he misses games due to diabetes.

  179. The Little Guy

    May 29, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Hey go easy on Taylor, i have Diabetes :]

  180. From Section 113

    May 29, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Bedard is the most interesting pitcher to go after. He’s quite good this yr, is in his walk yr, and is on a bad team. This make shim very available.

    However, we would have to give up more than the 2 good draft picks they would net from another team if they held on to him all yr.

    However let’s say we give up 3 prospects for him, we would certainly net 2 prospects back when a team signs him and gives us 2 extra draft picks. So that is something to think about.

    But would he be a type A Free Agent or a Type B? Plus we have been linked to him in the past. It all seems like a good fit.

  181. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    He would be a type A if he keeps up his performance this season

  182. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Ed,
    its almost ONE or THE OTHER here.. either we coast along this season, without some solid to replace #2 in the rotation, we don’t make the playoffs.. and you waste a great year by Ibanez, Howard, Utley, etc.

    You’ll have kept your prospects, who may or may not be great.. (Jeff Franceour was once Sports Illustrated’s cover after being called-up, he was labeled as THE NATURAL) .. so you really never know

    OR..
    We trade some of these young “MAYBES” for a pitcher who can help us right now.. while we have arguably some of the greatest position players to ever wear a Phillies uniform. (Rollins, Utley, Howard)..

    I say go for it now while its got a better chance of working out.
    BUT.. earlier this morning, I was leaning towards keeping every prospect too..

    its a tough call

  183. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    I totally agree. This team – with better starting pitching – is THE favorite to repeat as World Champions. Better than the Dodgers. But they arent getting the same pitching in total this season. THATS why I agree.

    This lineup is one of the best lineups (over the past few years as a cope group) in baseball for the past 6-7 years and could become legendary. DONT WASTE IT. We have good young arms who ARE prospects, but not sure things. Obviously, Drabek or Bastardo you really dont want to trade, same with the outfielders. but you have a lot of good PROSPECTS – good young arms who other teams will like. you CAN trade them for a proven starter who can help us return to glory.

    You have to get a frontline guy – period.

  184. Geoff

    May 29, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    But until that happens you do bring up someone like worley or carrasco or bastardo and see what they can do…if they pitch well, then when you DO get that myers – caliber replacement then MOYER gets the boot

  185. Don M

    May 29, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    The Little Guy.

    When Kendrick was brought up, he had a total of 81 innings pitched over 12 starts in AA.. at that point he had a 3.21 ERA (nice), 82 hits (bad), but the difference maker was that he was throwing STRIKES… only 18 walks vs. 50 Strikeouts.

    He was called up because he was a “ground-ball” pitcher, who could throw strikes.. turns out he had some Gold Glove defense behind him, and it worked out well his first year in Philadelphia.

    The problem is that he started relying too much on his sinker.. Major League Hitters adjusted to him and started pounding him… he was afraid to throw strikes, and last year his stats balooned:

    155 Innings: 195 hits 57 walks!, 68 Stikeouts, 5.49 ERA

    ..
    as Kendrick was never a guy with great “stuff” it seems like his best stuff wasn’t a match against MLB hitting.. now he’s trying to learn new pitches, and throw strikes again, but as his ceiling was never that high to begin with, many think we’ve already seen the best Kyle Kendrick can offer (2007)

  186. mikemike

    May 29, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Yesterday todd Z . stated what I was trying to say the phillies have a window to win, the contracts Ruben gave to Howard and Hamels are the window years. So they might go all for it, or If as I said before. if we knew we could keep Hamels and howard then we aren’t as pressure to go all out right now. The thing about howard is if I am right he will be almost 33 when he is up for his big deal, and that scares me to give him a monster deal. Another thing before this injury all I was reading was the reason the phillies were looking for a cook was There was no way they would go to arb with myers, he was as good as gone. but that is a reporter saying this so it might not be true, but to me it sounds like he was as good as gone.

  187. Travis

    May 29, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Hey, I don’t live in Philly so I don’t know if its raining or not. Some websites say its thunderstorms and rain, while some say its parlty cloudy. Does anyone know if tonight’s game will be played between Nats (Shairon Martis) and Phils (J.A Happ)? tnks

  188. Manny

    May 29, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    First of all, can Myers pitch through his hip problem the rest of the season… and THEN get surgery? It would seem likely that nobody would sign him for next season if he simply stops pitching for the rest of this season. If he pitches now, at least he’ll remain relevant for the offseason. It’s a risky move, and ultimately he and doctors can decide whether this is even an option, but it looks like it’s the best thing that could happen now for Myers and the Phillies.

    If we can’t get him back pitching, I’d be happy to get a legit No.2 starter (like Bedard) on board. I agree with Don… we can’t afford to have crappy pitching while having an amazing lineup. This is our championship window and it can’t go to waste. As long as we don’t give them our superstars (which we don’t even know who they are), we’ll be more than fine.

    Forget about going deep in the playoffs with Hamels and “four others.”

  189. Justin

    May 29, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Just being reported, Myers met with 2nd specialist today who recommended surgery. Myers out for year, but hopeful to return this season.

  190. BrianD

    May 29, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    What kind of offers can Myers expect in the offseason? What do you think the chances are of him resigning with the Phils (and we’re not talking about anything more than 2-3 yrs, 5-8 mil per)?

  191. baseballfan

    May 30, 2009 at 12:22 am

    look like only one starter

  192. clktwr14

    May 30, 2009 at 1:45 am

    How about this one more you mental giants your so called hero Ibanez for Greinke, why did Charlie put Mayberry in RF over the weekend in New York to check out how much speed the outfield of Werth/Victorino/Mayberry had, and they go out and sign Ben Sheets look at that rotation

    Hamels
    Greinke/Sheets
    Blanton
    Haap
    Moyer

    or Haap goes back to the minors for more tuning.

  193. Todd Hamm

    May 30, 2009 at 2:30 am

    I think we need to take this to a new article…Myers having surgery and will/should/probably miss the rest of the season. Although if he can come back…he will! The “kid” is a bulldog.

    I think they should look at the “prices” of Webb (yes, I know he’s injured. He hasn’t had a set-back for over a month and a half now and should be back in a couple of weeks), Harang, and Cook.

    We know a trade is coming…hopefully it won’t be a deal like the one for Blanton — too much given up.

    I wouldn’t put much, if any, stock in what — “insert expert here” — says about any minor league rankings. The fact is the Phils have a lot of players that other teams would love to have. The Phils Pharm (to me) is stronger than most…but don’t put much stock into that either!

    On a side note — the Mets just traded for Lance Broadway (White Sox), I guess they like pitchers with high ERA’s!?

  194. baseballfan

    May 30, 2009 at 3:12 am

    that move was to play santos and get rid of castro. not about what they got in return

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