Done Deal: Phillies Acquire Lee

Fox Sports reports that the Cleveland Indians and Philadelphia Phillies have agreed to a deal that sends Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to the Phillies for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. Both team still have to examine medical records before the deal is official.

Francisco is the right-handed bat that the Phillies have been looking for. Francisco is batting .250 with 10 homers and 33 RBIs. Lee is 7-9 with a 3.14 ERA and 1.30 WHIP. He is the reigning American League Cy Young winner.

OPINION: This is a great deal for the Phillies. They keep Kyle Drabek, J.A Happ, Michael Taylor and Dominic Brown, their top prospects. Knapp has a lot of potential, but Marson and Donald were being blocked anyway, and Carlos Carrasco has been falling off the radar. Not only do they get a former Cy Young winner, but a bat off the bench.

Click to comment


  1. Tony

    July 29, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Rotation: (Now that is some pitching depth)
    Cole Hamels
    Cliff Lee
    Joe Blanton
    J.A. Happ
    Pedro Martinez
    Jamie Moyer
    Rodrigo Lopez
    Kyle Drabek

    Good job Ruben!! and you got us a right handed bat

  2. Paul

    July 29, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    I really like this deal for the Phils, even if it was just Lee. But to get Francisco too? He’s a pretty good right handed bat to have on the bench.

  3. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    God, thats a lotta lefties. Nice trade. And got the righty bat thrown in. Mayberry down. Now need the utility infielder and a bullpen arm.

    The Dipsy

  4. Good Night Joe Carter

    July 29, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    I am very proud of Ruben for not giving in and telling the Blue Jays to go screw themselves. The right handed bat off the bench and not having to lose Drabek, Taylor, or Brown are huge.

  5. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Hmmmm. September 1, 2009

    LHP Cliff Lee
    LHP Cole Hamels
    RHP Joe Blanton
    LHP J.A. Happ
    LHP Jamie Moyer

    RHP Chad Durbin
    RHP Can Ho Park
    RHP Clay Condrey
    RHP Pedro Martinez
    RHP Rodrigo Lopez
    RHP Brad Lidge
    RHP Ryan Madson
    LHP Scott Eyre
    LHP J.P. Romero

    Do I smell a “closer controversy”?

    The Dipsy

  6. BrewTownPhilsPhan

    July 29, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Any trade that upgrades our rotation without loosing Happ is a brilliant move! You can’t take away pieces that are performing like Happ is and expect miracles. I’m very happy with this trade!

  7. Greg B

    July 29, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    EAT Sh$t, JP! His bluff was called. Good deal. I would have liked to see Marson backing up Ruiz, but what can you do?

    So, as they line up at this point the Phils have 4 lefties in the rotation?

  8. Jeff of NoVa.

    July 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    I am so happy for this deal, for starters now I can sleep:)

    Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ, Moyer

    Great rotation.

    Forget about Drabek and others, they will come into the picture next year and that is what I am most happy about. We got the front line starter for 2 years, No he is not Halladay, but the reigning Cy Young with no run support in Cleveland, he will get it here. We keep the ROY candidate Happ, got a right handed bat for our bench.

    Next year you have this possibly
    Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Drabek

    This years bullpen, Dipsy, may come from within. Martinez and Myers would be great additions to a tired bullpen and a possible closer if Lidge keeps doing what he did last night.

    This is not as big of a headliner as Halladay is but we only sent players that are blocked or are good prospects but not Drabek.

    Dom Brown and Taylor are still here

  9. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Fransisco’s the perfect 4th outfielder for this team. He hits, walks, hits doubles, can take a base and has show he can produce as an everyday outfielder if the team suffers an injury.

    We all wanted Halladay whether it was guns blazing or conservatively but as has been said, to get Cliff Lee and not give up Happ or either of the top 3 prospects is just a fantastic deal and the Indians got theirs.

    While JP Riccardi and his people were in front of the media daily unwilling to enter into serious negotiations with anyone, Mark Shapiro the godfather of the ‘trade-deadline deal’ floats his guy, was reported to have asked for a lot but was prepared to do what it takes to get a deal done. He gets 3 guys that can step in from day 1 and a guy who could very well ascend to being a top 25 prospect. I’m thrilled for Carrasco and Marson who are actually going to get to go somewhere their not going to have to worry about starring from he get-go.

    Pat on the back to Ruben, he’s got some kahunas

  10. traderjack

    July 29, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    now they can trade Lee, Taylor and Happ to get Halladay and then the Jays trade Lee back to the Indians for Carrasco and Donald

  11. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Wonder if the Phils might try and sneak Pedro Martinez into a save situation…

    Great deal for Phillies Nation! Not often you see something get done when everyone’s (including the other teams) happy

  12. william

    July 29, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Now they can trade Happ, Drabek and Brown to the Jays for Halladay and knock Hamels to the #3 slot
    Yes I’m dreaming but WOW that would be a good rotatiion

  13. Joe NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    You don’t know how Lee performace in postseason.

  14. Josh

    July 29, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I’m still confused as to how Pedro fits in. Will he just happily take a bullpen role, or will we give him a chance to start and put Happ back in the pen since we’ll have 4 lefties in the rotation otherwise.

  15. Ben

    July 29, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    nice deal, will be interesting to see us throw out all those lefties come playoff time. matchups are always big, but nothing like getting a guy like lee. can’t wait to see what lee does against the NL.

    what does his contract look like? i know its cheaper, but for how many years is he signed?

  16. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    RUBEN YOU ARE A GENIUS! We keep Happ, Drabek, Taylor AND Brown (ALL OUR TOP 3 PROSPECTS).

    And frankly, this is a good deal for the Indians, too.

  17. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Ben- Looks like Cliff Lee is eligible for free agency after this season with an $8MM club option ($1MM buyout).

    And the Jays still say they have to be ‘wowed’ to move Halladay… Oh the relief


    July 29, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Other moves have to fall. They have too much.

  19. philsphan

    July 29, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Joe NJ,

    We don’t know how Halladay would do in the postseason either.

  20. Havoc

    July 29, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Ahhh… it’s finally over now we can just lazily think about unloading Rodrigo Lopez & Kendrick for some more bullpen depth…

    By the way Ruben deserves GM of the year award for how he managed the arbitration cases in the offseason, snagging Raul Ibanez, and now getting a #1 starter without giving up our top pitching propsect, the rookie of the year, and our top hitting prospect. This is an incredible steal for the Phitins!

  21. Don M

    July 29, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Indians are still looking to move Victor Martinez.. possibly to the Red Sox.

    for Clay Buchholz.. etc..

    They can maybe move their two guys and get something like 7-8 solid prospects in return.

    How many hours until Riccardi fired. I tried to post earlier that the deal without Knapp wasn’t going to happen.. he was the TOP guy in the deal.. Great move by Ruben … I still think we’ve got a chance at Halladay too.. call me crazy

  22. Jeff of NoVa.

    July 29, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    JP will be fired the day after the Phillies win the World Series again and Cliff Lee and Hamels are co MVPs:)

    Best trade in years for this club. If anyone would go to the pen if Martinez squeezes in my guess would be Moyer since Romero has been dinged. Otherwise Martinez will go to the pen and don’t forget about Myers mid Aug.:)

    This team looks scary on paper!! 100 wins?

  23. Cole Lat

    July 29, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    I’m still not sure on drabek being untouchable considering he’s coming off of tommy john, may be undersized, and is still untested at the major league level, but hey the higher ups know more than I do, and if they’re that sold on certain players then you simply can’t move them. Acquiring a reigning cy young pitcher without giving up any of our 3 top 25 prospects, solid move!
    Thank you philliesnation for the great coverage. As soon as you read the report from lv this morning you had to think something was up.
    Now we just cross our fingers and hope richardi stands pat and doesn’t trade doc to the redsox cause I’d still be worried about that rotation come October.
    Let’s go get it Phils!

  24. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Joe NJ – Good point. I’m sure Lee will suck in the post season. Now what happens when Ricciardi comes back and says “Happ, Taylor, and a little more for Halladay. Its totally a sick thought but what if he did? Nice deal, Ruben. Martinez would take to end of game guy like a duck to water. Let that fastball fly and not have to worry about innings. Could hit 92-93 on the radar gun. Myers duking it out with Lidge if Lidge doesn’t shape up. Trade Lopez for an A ball prospect/suspect. They have trade bait to get a quality infield bat and a lefty reliever. They can do a LOT right now.

    The Dipsy

  25. Brian

    July 29, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    I’m curious to know how much fresh scouting the Indians have on the Phills farm system this year. I know they sent an army of scouts our way when we were going after Sabathia last year. At this point last year, Carrasco, Donald and Marson were much better prospects than this year.

  26. philsphan

    July 29, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Jeff of Nova,

    You’re crazy. There’s no way we could take on an additional 15 million next year along with Lee’s 9. But we can dream…

  27. pb

    July 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Love the deal, I predict JMJR is moved for a reliever at now at some point for the dead line

  28. Tools of Ignorance

    July 29, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Great trade….Of course everybody still wondering if there’s a way to bring Halladay over.

  29. XjasonX

    July 29, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    what’s also nice is that maybe by the end of next month we could have Myers in the bullpen for the end of the season/playoffs…things are looking up for phillies nation!

  30. Geoff

    July 29, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    JP is SCRAMBLING now. This was a stroke of masterful brilliance by Ruben. Now all they need is a utility inf better than bruntlett and a good relief pitcher like Grabow or Capps to bolster the depth of the bullpen.

    francisco solves a LOT of problems for this team too…Cleveland went for quantity and upside here.

  31. philsphan

    July 29, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Oh sorry, last post was @ Don M

  32. joedad

    July 29, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    A suspicously good deal for the Phils.

  33. Mazinman

    July 29, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Wow! Increadible job by Ruben. My heart was set of Halladay but I cannot disagree with this deal. I would take Happ and Lee in the rotation over just Halladay. We get a CY Cyoung award winner and keep our future intact.

  34. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    I doubt we’re going to see any more movement except dealing Lopez (which was an unfathomable idea when he signed his minor-league deal). I really don’t see the Phils finding an upgrade over Bruntlett who now really is your glove man and Stairs, Dobbs and Franciso, that can be some real damage off the bench.

    Unless one of JC, Durbin and Condrey aren’t expected back this year with Pedro destined to go to the pen and have Myers joining him, the need for a reliever doesn’t look urgent, am sure the Phils will still look though.

  35. Brett

    July 29, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    This is awesome. They got rid of the expendables and managed to keep the real top prospects. Awesome move by Ruben.

  36. Jeff of NoVa.

    July 29, 2009 at 3:17 pm


    What in the world are you talking about, I have not made a mention of salary once I think you are mistaken in who that is directed at!

  37. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    The Phillies are now officially a member of MLB’s “Big Boys Club”. The Yankees and Redsox respectfully welcome you. Please stay awhile.

  38. Mike N

    July 29, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Drabek out of the pen in september and the playoffs, a la david Price last year. Maybe he’s not ready for it, but if his stuff is that good, and no major league hitters have ever seen him, he could get some guys out.

  39. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    It shows how deep of system has become to be able to give up your number 1 pitching prospect going into the year, your number 2 pitching prospect in the system at the time of the trade in Knapp, and two guys capable of playing everyday by opening day for the Indians AND still have Happ, 3 top 25 prospects and lots more to like in rookieball through to AA.

  40. Morris Buttermaker

    July 29, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    I liked the trade alot. And then I turned on my radio and heard both Eskin and Missanelli complaining about it. I now love it. Great move.

  41. Groty

    July 29, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Deadline hasn’t hit yet.

    A) Will Happ still be starting tonight or could he be part of a package for Sherill?
    B) If Happ stays, move Moyer to bullpen?

    Marson is gone but we still have Travis D’Arnaud!!

  42. philsphan

    July 29, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Yea haha sorry Jeff, I corrected myself a couple posts above you

  43. Joey

    July 29, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    What is Lees contract situation? I like the move but we did give up a lot. I think the fact three of these guys were top of the line prospects this time last year shows how much we really gave up and how fickle we can be when it comes to prospects (ok and pros). I think you need to lock up Chooch for two-four years now.

  44. Mazinman

    July 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    You know, it just dawned on me that even after this trade we still have enough talent to go after Halladay. I’m not saying the Phillies should do that as I am very happy with Lee just that its amazing how intact this trade left our farm and how much talent we have waiting to come up.

  45. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Now let’s just hope that Rodrigo Lopez DAZZLES in his next start and maybe someone out there would give us a “Carrasco” or a “Marson” back! hehe…

    Seriously, this is awesome. Since the all-star break Lee is 3-0 is 1.44 ERA.

    When will he start?? August 1st, perhaps?? …skipping Moyer’s start against Lincecum and keeping Lee on normal rest… Holy crap, this is great.

  46. Disulfide

    July 29, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    good deal for sure!
    Eskin is a putz.

  47. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    If we can trade Moyer for that situational lefty or Bruntlett replacement, and thats a big “if”, then do it. No “he’s a second pitching coach” baloney please. Lopez worth anything?…then get it. Lefty for the pen (giving Charlie 3 moves outta the pen) and a RH utility guy (Switch hitter would be too much to ask). Is Jose Oquendo available?

    The Dipsy

  48. Kennedy

    July 29, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Wow, that’s a nice trade. Knapp is a great chip, good player but replaceable in the draft. Marson and Donald are blocked, and Carrasco is a #3 starter in a year, but out team has a slew of #3 starters in the minors.

    Great deal for both sides.


    Chan Ho


    I’m thinking 6 man rotation, send Pedro to the pen. DL Lidge til he gets his “swagger” back. Start getting everybody nice and rested for October.

    Above all, keep Hamels and Happ from throwing too many innings.

  49. Havoc

    July 29, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Anybody against this deal is a fool. Halladay is better sure, but the Phils just got something great for stuff they didn’t need. The team is much improved and a playoff rotation of Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ is miles better than what we sent into the game last year. And if it’s possible our Offense seems better this year than last year. I am feeling very very optimistic.

    “Still the beasts of the NL East.”

  50. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Maziman…. I’m thinking the same thing. RA and the Phillies Brass have another block buster in the works.

  51. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    I agree with keeping Happ on a count… if he pitches 6 shutout innings and the pen’s rested, then take him out of the game…

  52. Kennedy

    July 29, 2009 at 3:49 pm


    With all due respect, Moyer is untradeable. He’s a clubhouse/character guy, and he’s making too much money relative to what he is.

    Lopez I’d shop, if anyone wants him. Rangers need a SP, and Lopez has been seriously over performing. His ERA in the majors this year has actually been way lower than it was in AAA, wonder how much longer that lasts.

  53. dmarley

    July 29, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    “When will he start?? August 1st, perhaps?? …skipping Moyer’s start against Lincecum and keeping Lee on normal rest… Holy crap, this is great.”

    That’s what I’d do, send Lee against Lincecum on normal rest and save Moyer for Sunday, as he usually pitches well in day games.

  54. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    On the bullpen issue for the play-off roster we have two more guys than spots in the pen if you factor in Martinez and Myers who you’d guess are better options than a guy like Capps, so unless Romero won’t make it back and you need a second lefty the pen is stocked, or at least it will be.

    7 spots- Park/Eyre/Madson/Lidge with Durbin/Condrey/Romero/Martinez/Myers to return assuming its a 5 an bench.

  55. Mostone

    July 29, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    I expect the Phils to deal Lopez.

  56. Mazinman

    July 29, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Repeat!, I really, really doubt they would do it… unless Toronto panics over this development and lowers their price a lot. Still the possibility is there. Incompetent GMs open all sorts of doors.

    I do think the Phils are not done. They still have some needs and are now overstocked in terms of starting pitching. I do like the idea of them going to a six man rotation the rest of the way. That allows the starters to be more rested when the post season comes along. Pedro in the bullpen, with his attitude, could be really effective and I hope he really considers it.

  57. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I do wonder whether Moyer spends some time on the DL while they begin the Pedro experiment/ wait for Happ to hit a rough patch. Moyer’s been pitching well, but they could use another righty in the rotation and I don’t think you can take Happ out at this point.

  58. The Original Chuck P

    July 29, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    This site has sucked for me all day… have been wanting to share my thoughts.

    I am in awe of Amaro’s genius… how he landed Cliff Lee without giving up a combination of Happ or Drabek or Brown or Taylor is beyond me LET ALONE NONE OF THEM.

    Halladay was admittedly the best fit for this team but this deal still gives us a very real chance to win a world championship without leaving gaping holes in our rotation in 2011 (when Lee leaves). It gives us flexibility and leverage for upcoming negotiations that will largely determine the direction of this franchise. You have to expect that at least one of Michael Taylor OR Dominic Brown are going to be legit… we eliminated the risk that we were trading the wrong guy and if both of them live up to their hype… watch out. Drabek/Happ/Hamels forms a formidable combination. Plus, we still have guys like Savery, Carpenter, May, Bastardo, Worley and Stutes that might pan out. If not, we’ll have extra cash because we kept this farm talent. All of this… and Lee is cheaper and he’s still a Type A (so we’ll get two draft picks if he walks).

    RUBEN… you are the man.

  59. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    I’d expect to see Lopez kept for a few more days with a weak bullpen and traded after the deadline in a PTBNL kind of move.

  60. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    nm, I forgot for a moment just how many BP pitchers they have out of commission. Don’t mind me.

  61. Johnny Snowden

    July 29, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    So the consensus is that this is an awesome trade and I have to agree. And if I’m reading the general tone correctly, then we should trade for Halladay and have a 20 man rotation, a 30 man bullpen with at least 15 lefties and a 16 man bench each hitting either 30 pinch hit HR’s or .300 avg. AND it’ll only cost about about a billion dollars but hey, we’ll get to score at least 1,000 runs per inning and set a new record for winning the next 20 world championships over the next 10 years (cause we’ll just be that good) hahah

    So I know that was just totally rediculous but the only other move I see Amaro making is maybe trying to unload EITHER Lopez or Happ for a bench infielder. and even then I dunno.

    I’m just curious aside from riccardi, who’s out of a job? Assuming Pedro takes Lopez’ spot, do you really send ur rookie of the year candidate back down or do we try and convince moyer to step down and retire? And yeah the bullpen needs some help now, but in a few weeks and we get our guys back healthy and we have 23984345734239 arms back there (after the deadline) what do we do then?

    Now is it just me or are the phillies trying to put together the first completely left handed ballclub in history?

  62. JoeFan

    July 29, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    I’m thrilled to have both Happ and Lee on the staff. Since the Phillies will only use 4 starters in the playoffs I assume our starters are now set: Lee, Hamels, Blanton, and Happ. I assume Moyer, Pedro, and Myers are in the ‘pen for the playoffs – everyone agree? In another 10 to 14 days Pedro, Bret, Durbin, Coundrey, and Romero will be ready to pitch – doesn’t that make the ‘pen a bit crowded?

    Does anyone know the number of players teams can have in the playoffs compared to what they have now? Is it the same? I assume this deal means the Phils will send John Mayberry back to LV?

    Also, I’m thrilled we kept Drabek and Taylor. I believe Taylor will be a future all-star. Any projection of what happens to Taylor over the next 15 months if he’s not traded? My guess is he gets a Sept call-up and gets a few ML at bats this year, then spends a good bit of next year in Triple A, then he comes in to replace Ibanez after 2010.

    Can anyone answer these questions – is Joe Blanton signed for next year? Will the Phillies attempt to resign Pedro Feliz after this year? I love this site, everyone gives tremendous insight – it’s great to be a Phillies fan!

  63. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    I think the first completely left-handed ballclub in history is appropriate for the city that gave us the world’s most famous fictional southpaw.

  64. Morris Buttermaker

    July 29, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    It feels like reading the Daily News when we traded Schilling. Apparently this is the worst trade the Indians have made since they traded Manhattan for some beans.

  65. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    No not all that Johny Snowden. But a big move to get another proven reliever. Qualls? Lee/Hamels/Blanton/Happ means absolutely nothing if Lidge continues to struggle. I personally thinks he needs to go now.

  66. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    NJ, I agree on Francisco being a perfrect 4th outfielder. He’s a 5 tool player. 13 steals only caught 3 times. 10 dingers. .270 against lefties. Can field. heck of a deal!

    We need insurance at closer. Lidge is scary right now and we’ll ruin Madson if he pitches in that roll. I’d find a package to get Sherrill in here because eyers is gone next year and he can slide right in. Aardsma is an untouchable I would think?

    I think the Jays will hold onto Halladay, but if they don’t we should try for Downs.

  67. Jaggers

    July 29, 2009 at 4:06 pm


    Cliff Lee : Roy Halladay :: Joe Blanton : C.C. Sabatthia ?

    Halladay and Sabbathia were the big targets for this year and last year for a pitching upgrade. In both cases, the Phillies got more out of their ‘second’ choices. If Lee can be as successful this year as Blanton has been for us, we’re in the World Series without giving up the farm. Amazing job by Amaro.

  68. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    What would it take to get Bell?

  69. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I second that post, Chuck P.

    If you send Pedro Martinez to the bullpen it will do wonders for the show”The Pen” haha!

    A Hamels-Lee (or Lee-Hamels) 1-2 punch is as good as it gets in baseball (same level as Lincecum-Cain, Sabathia-Burnett, and Lester-Beckett). We’re talking about the AL Cy Young winner and the WS MVP here…

    I can’t wait to see Lee pitch with the Phillies!!

    Good luck, J.P. Riccardi with your sandwich picks (more likely than not) next year! (Or, if you do trade Halladay, enjoy a [probably] inferior package!)

  70. ryan

    July 29, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    i love this deal. the only thing that i really worry about is that say, the dodgers acquire Halladay. then we may be in trouble. I’m really hoping Doc doesn’t go anywhere for our sake.

  71. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    I understand the want for Sherrill but I think Pedro Martinez could really help the pen and if Myers can make it back you know he can put some pressure on Lidge to deliver. Unless we need a lefty there’s already more guys than spots and Sherrill wouldn’t come cheap.

  72. Pat Gallen

    July 29, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Whats this I hear about a trade?

  73. Jason Mess

    July 29, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Lee has only allowed more than 3 run in a game 4 times this year and 2 were in the first month of the season. He does have good numbers against right handed hitters since June. I think he will be fine. Plus he gets to pitch against NL, I think he is like 12-2 vs the NL in his last 14 games. The only thing that might concern me a bit if he is a fly ball pitcher, that does not always work out well in CBP.

  74. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    D. Jackson

  75. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    psjoe- Downs would cost a fair bit and Bell’s rumoured to have a Halladay-equivalent pricetag. As I said when you look at the bullpen there’s more pitchers than spots so a trade seems unlikely and unnecessary we have Myers capable of closing out games if it came to that.

  76. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    It’s a good deal but Halladay is a superior pitcher….stuff wise. Lee’s got great stuff but other than a knucking curve is at 6’3, 190 lbs, it the same stuff as 6’3, 190 Hamels. Well the Red Sox have i think 9, 10 right handed bats…point is, after Lee, batters don’t have to readjust the next game…Now they get to face the a guy who by function of his height pitches a ball with a similiar angle of attack, a 4 seamer in the same 90+ range, a change-up, but unlike Lee, has a curve that fools no one and though pitch fx data says Hamels throws two-seamer, looking at the how similiar the horizontal/vertical movement is to his change-up, its more a variation of a change-up (Lee has a decent two-seamer though). And I have yet to see Hamels throw a legit two seamer and think pitch fx data classified it by its velocity which like many two-seamers is in the mid to upper eighties. If you think the Red Sox, after they gave us a tutorial in plate disclipline when he last saw them, are going to fooled by this esp. get all but the same the night before your crazy. And also, Hamels showed us last year that he has the focus of an elite pitcher, but as every team he faced in the off season was young and more suspectible to the change-up, you could argue he doesn’t have the arsenal of an ace but definitely will some day…his off season was short which combined with an injury hampered the development of his curve. Oh then we’ll put another lefty Happ, a rookie whose off speed stuff is better and works against the likes of the Reds but isn’t gonna fool a team that has had deal with Halladay, Sabbitha, Burnett on a regular basis. The Red Sox already handled his invisiba-ball, what that sluvery stuffs gonna work. I think Lee’s a good edition but a its not how he throws, but what he throws….you have to put his PITCHES not his stats. in the context of the rotation. Pray the Angels beat the Sox.

  77. Chrissy

    July 29, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Cleveland fans are calling for the heads of all Indians management. I don’t think they got ripped off but they sure feel like they got ripped off.

  78. bull

    July 29, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    the fills need to make a move on Sherrill from the O’s he can take over if lidge keeps faltering and gives us another dominant lefty in the pen

  79. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    I don’t care of the Dodgers get Roy Halladay. We’ll hit him like we’ve hit other top notch righties this year. Beckett, Haren just to name a few. And Phillie hitters have very good numbers against the Card’s Carpt. as well. Though I don’t beleive we’ve faced him this yr.

  80. The Original Chuck P

    July 29, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Blanton’s not eligible for free-agency until 2011… along with Lee and Moyer. Hamels is signed until 2012. Take Moyer’s money, re-sign Lee or Blanton… Hamels, Lee/Blanton, Happ, Drabek… mmm mmm good.

    Blanton is righthanded and Martinez is also righthanded… I don’t mind being lefty heavy anyway but those are two righthanders that could potentially start for us in the playoffs.

    Also… I really like Ben Francisco. 29 years old… power numbers should go up and he has intriguing speed. Not a bad bench player or fill in.

  81. Memphis

    July 29, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Lots of mixed feelings on this one, mostly good. First, AWESOME not giving up the tip-top pieces in the farm system. Excited to add a guy like Lee, no question, even though I thought last year was a little flukey. A little disappointed not to get Halladay, because he is The Man, would have been the perfect fit, and he can now still go to someone else. A little curious (and cautious) how this is being played as a steal — Clev still got a very good package, Carrasco, Donald, Marson, Knapp likely all major leaguers someday (soon), and all (except Knapp) seemed to be regarded a little higher last year at this time (funny how perceptions change). They’ve been called “second tier” but that seems a little harsh. We gave up 3 young AAA guys and a fireballing phenom who could be Drabek next year. Still, pretty psyched. Nicely played, Rube.

  82. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Let’s see, trade the reigning Cy young pitcher for a head case in AAA, a good talent years away from seeing the big leagues and two future role players on MLB squadrons? Yeah, I can see why they’d be pissed.

    J reed, wonder if they shuffle up the order and put Blanton in the 2nd spot in the playoffs, just to split the lefties up.

  83. Gavin

    July 29, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    I find it strange that everyone on here is fired up about the deal except everyone on WIP and 950 are bitching and moaning about this deal.

    You just got a guy with better stats over the last 2 years for 4 prospects that seem to be replacable parts.

    I am excited about this deal.

    Lee has a better quality start % the last two years than Halladay.

    My only worry is that Lee is less of a sure thing than Halladay. Halladays been at the top of the picthing pile for a longer period of time than Lee.

  84. Havoc

    July 29, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    In regards to the extra starting pitchers now. I think the rotation for the year will be.

    1. Hamels
    2. Lee
    3. Blanton
    4. Happ
    5. Moyer

    Lopez, has done a nice job for us but that just means he’ll be packaged in a deal for a prospect or additional bullpen/bench options. Pedro’s deal had built in incentives for him as a starter or a reliever so I think this was Amaro’s plan all along. Maybe Pedro will find the magic that Chan Ho has in the Phils Bullpen. With Myers coming back it gives more options at closer assuming Lidge continues to struggle. My heart still tells me Lidge will be fine though.

    Playoff Rotation
    1. Hamels
    2. Lee
    3. Blanton
    4. Happ

    I can’t stop smiling today.

  85. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    that’s “9 to 10 right handed bats at there disposal”

  86. Gavin

    July 29, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    Myers strangly enough may play a huge role for this team if they make the playoffs. The Phillies need RH relievers following their LH starters and Myers would fill that role very well. You put Myers/Park/Pedro/Condrey/Durbin as possible RH in the pen and the Phils have alot of options.

    I’d still like to see a RH infielder added to replace Brunlett.

  87. ChaseUtleyMVP

    July 29, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    the Tribe got had for sure.

    Knapp, is only 18 and ALREADY has shoulder fatigue.
    Marson isn’t that good.
    Donald isn’t a regular everyday guy…many scouts have said so.
    and Carassco was suppossed to be the next Cole Hamels… 6 years ago when they signed him…

    I’m very curious what happens with the rotation. 4 lefites seems way too much. But Pedro ain’t going to the way.

    But you can’t mover Moyer there..and would they really move Haap back in the pen after his solid starts and the fuss about not trading him?

    I guess this is a problem I like to have.

    Lopez will be a welcome to the pen also

  88. Repeat!

    July 29, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Though I preferred Doc to Lee I have no complaints with this deal. I would much rather the Phils get Lee than the Red Sox, Yanks or Dodgers. The Phils lineup would be in trouble if we have to face Lee/Lester 2-3 times in a series vs Red Sox or Lee/CC 2-3 times vs Yanks or poss Lee/Kershaw 2-3xs vs Dodgers.

  89. Gavin

    July 29, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Knapp will be a stud, but its a good deal. Carrasco will be a major league starter, but I dont think he’ll be a frontline guy. Marson and Donald could be fine players. The Indians got quality back, just not our top 3 guys.

  90. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Dave: I was thinking about that too (putting Blanton in the 2nd spot in the rotation)… It’s not a bad idea if you consider the similarities between Hamels and Lee that are being described here by some fans. I guess it will all depend on how well Hamels, Lee, and Blanton perform the rest of the season. If Blanton continues to shine (and ends up shining more than one of Hamels and Lee) then why not?

    However, my gut reaction is that Hamels should go 1st (because of last year’s success), and Lee 2nd (because he’s freaking Cliff Lee and it’d be hard to make a case for the current Cy Young winner to pitch 3rd, especially in a best-of-five short series)… plus, you might want to avoid putting pressure on Lee since he hasn’t been to the playoffs yet!

  91. ChaseUtleyMVP

    July 29, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    the Phils went from having to get another top starter..

    to having too many pitchers…which is never bad.

    You don’t need to make a trade for a righty infielder off the bench….just drop Bruntlett to AAA and call up Cairo…

    another solid bullpen arm is next.

  92. Richie Allen

    July 29, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Was Lee a hard luck pitcher this year for Cleveland?
    Looks like his ERA was ok but his win-loss record is off.Was it the team?
    Has any body been following this guy this year?I dont know much about him.

  93. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Dave- i don’t…i thought the same thing.
    Gavin- look at his PITCHES….Halladay PITCHES are what makes him great….deadliest sinkerballer (90-92mph) knock on sinkerballers in general they are too depended on them and don’t have enough back up if the ball up in the zone or the ball breaks to early and too much-walks or moon shots….No problem…cause he’s got the nasty cutter for righties and if you lefty he’ll just buckle your knees with a curve and of course theres a mean change-up. You can’t out guess him…that’s why he’s the best

  94. Manny

    July 29, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    C’mon guys don’t ask for more now (bullpen or bench)… It’s like a fat chick asking for dessert after eating 5 Big Macs

  95. Kennedy

    July 29, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    j reed:

    You’re overreacting, Lee is the reigning AL Cy Young. If we get in a series with the Red Sox, our plan is to plain outscore them. Remember, No DH in our park.

    Our pen is fully stocked, plus even if there were a slew of injuries, we have guys in AA/AAA who could step up to the plate. We don’t need to spend there.

    Johnny Snowden:

    Unload Happ for a Bench Infielder? That has to be the dumbest thing I’ve read today. He’s a ROY candidate.

    Honestly I think our offense is better or even at pretty much every position except third and Catcher than the Red Sox.

    1B: Howard and Youkilis are a push, Youkilis is a great on base guy, Howard has more power
    2B: Utley way better than Pedroia
    SS: Rollins way way better than Jed Lowrie
    3B: Lowell better than Feliz, but not dramatically
    CF: Victorino better than Ellsbury
    RF: Werth over Drew
    LF: Ibanez over Bay
    C: Varitek over Ruiz

    I don’t think any of these are really debatable. Honestly I’d rather have Stairs at DH than Big Steroid.

  96. Gary

    July 29, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    I get the feeling that the Indians were asking for Carrasco, Donald, and Marson last year for Sabbathia, so they were still really high on them this year as well

  97. shag beta sigma delta

    July 29, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    good trade, but I think especially with Charlie, Cole will still be number one especially in the playoffs. Did anyone watch the game last night. Your rotation

  98. Kennedy

    July 29, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Yea, at this point RAJ can just sit back and relax, other than trying to make a deal to move Lopez for a prospect. This team is freaking stacked, we’re the best offensive team in baseball, and probably have the best rotation to.

  99. Brian of CO

    July 29, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    without a doubt we still have enough talent to still get a deal done for Halladay, but is their asking price too high? I am very pleased with this deal, but maybe much like many others have said “JP is now SCRAMBLING”. Never know the asking price may be low enough to get him to, but I HIGHLY doubt it. Great move.

  100. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    The Tribe are slowly assembling a lot of talent throughout their roster through trading veterans, not a bad deal at all for them but when you hear JP Riccardi everyday of course your going to feel like you’ve been had as an Indians fan.

    Assists have to go to Mike Arbuckle and Steve Noworyta for drafting/signing and developing so much talent. Amazing that the Phils can trade away 4 of its most visible minor leagues and still be stocked.

  101. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Stop with the Halladay stuff. I wanted him to but it’s over. Lee has given up more than 4 runs twice in 22 games. He’s only given up more than 3 runs in 4 games. Does anyone realize how awesome that is in the AL with the DH? Lee is 12-2 vs NK teams. Throw in that we got a perfect 4th OF and kept our best prospects. Keep in mind there was a very good chance Lee landed in LA. No chance Halladay lands there.

    Here’s the shocker. Jayson Starks says it will eventually be Happ in the pen when Martinez becomes our 5th starter.

  102. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    I really do think there’s a possibility they bring up Pedro as a starter, if only on the off-chance they can use him as the 4th starter in the playoffs against a team with a righty-heavy lineup.

  103. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    On Knapp. He’s 18 and is 6’4″ 240 lbs and throws 97-98. A lot of experts project him to break 100 when he matures. The Indians like dhis upside more than Drabek so we did give up a heck of a chip.

  104. Ben

    July 29, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    what if rube meets up with jp and packages lee and some others (not top 25 guys) to toronto. jays get salary relief and jp saves face, we get halladay.

    i know it would never happen, but would be cool.

  105. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    I didn’t think Riccardi’s position would be as hot as some make out until I read earlier the Jays now intend to keep Halladay and try to win with him next year…

    Well with him wanting out, the Rays a step ahead and the Orioles looking to overtake the Jays leaving them at the bottom of the AL east, JP is joining Minaya in looking like he’s talking himself out of a job. Doesn’t seem like a good move to use the word ‘winning’ when your trending downwards at a time your competitors are doing the opposite… Silly pseudo-Beane

  106. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    re: eskin

    Just dont turn him on then he has no power. He is truly irrelevant. I have never really listenedto him. Was he upset when the phillies and the old man won it all? I mean they clearly both suck. Right Howard Douchebag.

  107. Keith

    July 29, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    I love this trade 😀

  108. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    re: Happ in the pen
    Honestly, what does the kid have to do get a break? We’d be mad if we put the SP who’s been pitching the best for us as the mop-up guy in the bullpen.
    It should be Moyer who gets a break while they figure out just how much Pedro has left. Is it fair? Not really, as he’s been pretty good lately. But that’s life, and it’s more fair than ROY candidate J.A. Happ going to the bullpen.
    Make Moyer scarce (phantom DL listing, maybe keep him in the pen instead of Steve Register) and then if Martinez stinks or Happ starts to come back to earth, bring him back.

  109. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Its funny to me people talk of trading Rodrigo Lopez. god bless him but you cant get anything back for him.

    Never before has so much been made over a 7-9 pitcher LOL
    Thats a joke

  110. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Stop being silly.
    Id not want Halladay now for anyone. We are set. Possibly favorites to win another series. Certainly favorites to win the NL. And our farm system is still good.
    If there was another trade with 3 prospects I would not be happy. Including Halladay

  111. Dude Needs Money

    July 29, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Any chance this deal get squashed during the physicals, with Knapp and Donald recently sidelined?

  112. NJ

    July 29, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    No way the deal doesn’t go through, Knapp was only on the 7 day minor league DL and Donald’s back.

    Don’t be too unhappy if Happ goes back to the pen, he’ll be used a lot and he was great there earlier in the year. I’d expect Pedro to go to the pen though the Phils might feel really good about getting 6 strong innings from Pedro and Moyer with a stronger bullpen with Happ there. Hope they’ll give the kid a chance though.

  113. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    how can you say the tribe got had? that will be determined in 5 years. what if Knapp wins 400 games and lee sucks?

    I like the trade. i thnk the Indians did well also though. I think Jp Retardo in Toronto has less job security than Omar Minaya with the mess.

  114. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Happ to the pen?
    Are you guys nuts? he gets rocked 3 times and maybe. Not 1 or 2 times but 3 in a row then we discuss him to pen. If not for Happ I bet we arent in first right now.

  115. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    manny-it doesn’t matter who goes first. they are literally aside from one pitch, the same..same height, weight, build…I think this profoundly short-sighted not for a team’s season but for the World Series…the top AL dogs are too saavy not to take advantage of this. Oh also, scouting reports say he stuggles against right handed batters who go yard on him…great another fly ball pitcher for CBP when yopu could have the best groundball pitcher in the game. And because no wants to see Drabek go…he 6’0 RH with some heat and a good curve …did it ever occur to people that his number 1 status is relative to the others in the pool of prospects, he just might be the best among alot mediocre guys. And remember there a pretty big business surrounding the evaluation of prospects..Over hyping prospects sells more of those Baseball Prospectus rags. And I love sabrmetrics but its not like the scientific community who will test and retest and have well established standards and methodoliogies for evaluating their findings. So, i am not so inclined to buy into the rankings.

  116. Bob Kahn

    July 29, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    A good deal. Good luck to Marsona and Donald, we may be hearing from them. As for the pitchers, one never knows. I am fascinated with what we are going to do with Pedro. We have only two weaknesses now, utility IF (who just happened to score the winning run of the WS!), and the closer. We are locked with the closer (two more years of contract, so we have to make it work.)

    Just hope that Carrasco bombs and not Drabek!

  117. Griffin

    July 29, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    For those of you (NJ and others) who balked at the asking price for Halladay, you were right.

    This is a real good trade for the Phils who keep their future intact by not trading their top 3 prospects and acquire a top-10 pitcher and a right bench bat.

    I’d rather have Lee, Drabek, Brown and Happ then Halladay, Carrasco, Donald, Knapp and Marson.

  118. nate

    July 29, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    hope lee starts sat against lincecum, cause that would put him in line for a friday start at home….. which i’m going to. that would be awesome if he made his first start on wall-of-fame HK night.

  119. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Well…As for Lee instead of Halladay, and I don’t know if this point was made, but you couldn’t wait around until Friday waiting for the Jays to enter reality. If they did, Lee could have gone to another team, and the Phils would have gone to happy hour on Friday with no one. They almost had no choice. But its a good deal. As for who goes to the pen, it will be J.A. He’s done it before and he was good at it. Kinda of a shame, but there’s no such thing as a six man rotation. And how bout that outfielder we got. Oh so clutch. Ruben did a great job.

    The Dipsy

  120. Griffin

    July 29, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    For people who say that K-Law hates the Phils:

    Basically, he LOVES the deal for the Phils

  121. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    I guarentee Happ doesnt goto the pen. the phils have a comfortable lead why not go with a 6 man rotation. Especially with cole if he missed 2 or 3 starts and was ready for the playoffs id be happy.
    Playoffs we know 3 starters. Lee hamils blanton

    Let pedro and happ fight for the 4th spot.

    Why would you not make the halladay trade to keep happ then move him to the pen? Pedro to me could be the closer.

  122. Jeff

    July 29, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    I will be the first to admit I was tough on Ruben. I wanted Halladay so bad. I listened to the 610 guys on the way home from the beach. They are saying the Phillies made a mistake. I say they are wrong. This is a solid deal. We stole Lee away. He will be a great arm for us. Does Halladay make us a world series winner, you cant say yes. There are no guarentees in this game of baseball. We are solid now. Think of this Philly fans, Next year, Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ, Drabek…I like it. Great job Rueben for sticking to your guns. I applaud you.

  123. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Happ’s going to the pen.

    The Dipsy

  124. DeeMarie

    July 29, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    I agree with what a lot of you are saying… There are just too many now, and I don’t think this is going to be the end of the trading. My only concern with this other-wise genious trade, is who do we have to catch if (or when…) Ruiz or Bako gets hurt?

  125. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    There’s time to worry about Happ to the Pen. It’s totally contingent on Martinez being a quality starter. If MArtinez cant hack it Happ stays a starter. Lopez is the odd man out in this whole equation.

    JP RIccardi can have Lopez for Scutaro, LMAO!

  126. Jeff

    July 29, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Happ is not going to the pen. You guys were like he is the best thing since sliced bread, by putting him in a trade for Halladay. They are not putting a 7-1 pitcher in the pen. Martinez will go to the pen. Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ, Moyer….

  127. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Jeff, maybe, but it will depend on how MArtinez looks. If Martinez returns to form I think he gets the slot because he’s not a bull pen pitcher. Happ has showed he can be very effective in the Pen. We aren’t winning anything with the way Madson and Lidge are pitching.

  128. Griffin

    July 29, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    I can’t understand how any Phillie fan doesn’t love this trade!!???

    The Phils didn’t sacrifice their future and still got an ace.

    Also, Francisco is the perfect fit for this team.

    Anyone who doesn’t like what the Phillies just did doesn’t know anything about baseball.

  129. Jeff

    July 29, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    you guys are seriously nuts if you think Happ goes to the pen. First you wanted him to start over Park. You went nuts in the first half. Now he comes out and shines. Then he looks to be in a trade for the best and you say no way. We want Happ to stay. Now we keep him and you want to stick him in the pen. Are you crazy. He is 7-1 for a reason right? Martinez will never build arm strength to go 6 or 7. He is the odd man out here. No way charlie touches Happ.

  130. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    If Martinez can’t hack it then Happ doesn’t move. The Phils knew they were going after a starter. DO you think they picked up MArtinez to be a relief pitcher?

  131. Brian of CO

    July 29, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Face it, Moyer is staying a starter. If Happ goes to the pen, is it really a bad thing? It gives us another solid arm in the BP to keep us in games because sadly Madson and Lidge really are not doing this season.

  132. Brian of CO

    July 29, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Chances are Happ wont go to the pen, but I dont see how it would be a bad thing if he does. Before this happened, Lopez was still in the rotation. Lopez will be moved before Happ.

  133. Pingback: » Done Deal but for Physicals: Cliff Lee to Phillies for 4 Minor Leaguers |

  134. Don M

    July 29, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    the guys on the radio also thought that Blanton was a terrible move.. and that Raul Ibanez was a bad signing..

    so the fact that they think this is a bad move too, almost proves that its the best Phillies trade of all time

  135. LH

    July 29, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Toronto’s mea culpa. I’m thinking our new GM is one smart cookie. The World Series Champs have taken one giant foot forward towards a better time in the 2009 playoffs. Hopefully, Myers comes back to the pen in good shape to be a closer. Maybe they’ll snag a right-handed utility bench player to replace Brunlett with Lopez. Amaro saves our present and future! I’m walking on air.

  136. LH

    July 29, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    I agree Don. I wish we had decent baseball sportcasters on the radio. NY is lucky to have 660.

  137. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Kennedy: I never said we couldn’t win….Halladay gives us a better chance and has more versitility. Lee’s a fantastic pitcher though not the horse that Hallady is….his 2008 ERA over the season is stable but prior to this there were signficant spikes down the stretch…So hopefully this is sign of improvement. My main concern is at a glance mind you, is his stats. in hitters park have been consistently dreadful . Measured out i think its a good deal esp. with this Francisco guy, but not what i hoped for. I think we can get to the dance, no problem….winning difficult esp. since i don’t think anyone in the organization has the technical acumen to fix Lidge. [i think he tips, can’t prove it just process of elimination]. So we’ll see…I think Lee if he doesn’t tucker out, he will waltz through most NL teams. With Lee, I think we’ll have to out slug the comp. to with it all. With Halladay, not so much

  138. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    that’s “to win it all.”

  139. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Hey Jeff. Who gives a damn what everybody thought at the beginning of the season about Happ? The rotation is gonna be Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Martinez, Moyer. Get over it. Reasons being, in ascending order of importance:

    1) It balances out the rotation;
    2) Neither Martinez or Moyer, to my knowledge, has ever pitched in relief;
    3) Three lefties in the pen is great;

    If Martinez screws up, Myers will get a shot. If they both screw up, Happ comes back.

    The Dipsy

  140. Thunder Lips

    July 29, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Lee is the best addition to the Phils since Ron Gant, Danny Tartabull, Rico Brogna, and Travis Lee!!!

  141. Barney

    July 29, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Dipsy, I dont agree with you. Happ has been, statistically, the ace since hes been moved as a starter. Moving him tot he pen would not be a good decision at all. I think if we put Pedro in the pen, for the time being at least, would be the best thing to do. if we have four lefties in the rotation so be it. Happ has been too good as a starter to move him into the bullpen and pedro is still somewhat unproven after his long layoff. Honestly, as much as i love Jamie, if pedro was pitching well in the pen or minors or where ever, I would say have Pedro take his spot. After typing that sentence, I hesitated for a good minute. It really is a hard decision to make of who to start, but this is the first time in so long that we have had this problem, which is as big of a problem as having too much beer. All I am saying is yeah while Jamie wouldnt be great in the pen, Happ has just been too good and I would really hate to see him taken from the rotation with how much he has provided in the past 2 months or so.

  142. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    We have time to worry about Pedro or Happ to the Pen because Pedro won’t be ready for at least 3 or 4 more rehab stints(IMO). anything quicker than that is rushing it.

    I can never seem to get an answer to this question. What is Bestardo’s injury status?

  143. JoeFan

    July 29, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    After the decision of who are 5 starters are during the season, and who our 4 playoff starters are is made, then the other decision is who will be left of the playoff roster. I’m guessing we keep 12 pitchers/13 position players. I believe if everyone’s healthy we have 15 pitchers – or three too many. The 15 pitchers: Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Happ, Moyer, Martinez, Myers, Lidge, Madson, Eyre, Coundry, Park, Lopez, Romero, Durbin. My guess is if everyone is healthy the three left off would be Lopez, Durbin, and Moyer.

  144. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Wont trade happ for halladay but put him in the bullpen now?

    0% chance of happening so its kind of dumb to discuss it.

  145. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Andrew, might just be hot air, but Jayson Starks said Happ to the Pen according to his sources familiar with the Phillies. Right or wrong the Phils did not pick him up to be a relief pitcher.

  146. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    Andrew, might just be hot air, but Jayson Starks said Happ to the Pen according to his sources familiar with the Phillies. Right or wrong the Phils did not pick up Martinez to be a relief pitcher.

  147. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Dipsy i enjoy reading your comments.
    Lets wait and see.
    I predict we go with a 6 man rotation which makes sense since we arent in a real playoff fight. Or pedro to the pen. He has the stuff to be an 8th or 9th inning relief pitcher.

    Happ will start untill he messes up. If they took him out of the rotation now the media/fans would crucify them if anything bad ever happened.

  148. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    As an aside the Pirates have actually just made two straight pretty good deals. they just picked up the Giants 4th best prospect Tim Alderson.

  149. Andrew

    July 29, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Your kidding me I will believe it when i see it.
    If you arent even goign to use him why not jsut throw him in the Halladay deal. makes no sense

  150. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    Dipsy- you seem pretty saavy in regards to negoiations and knowledge about the fiancial side of baseball’s inner workings. What do you think will happen next with Halladay? Do you think Rueben played his cards too early and these other clubs where waiting for something like this to go down esp. now that we’re out of the picture and no longer can out bid the competition?

  151. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    If you take Happ, Moyer and Martinez, Happ is the best starter. He’s also the best reliever of the three and the only reliever of the three. Martinez didn’t sign to not even have a shot at starting. I would put Jamie in the pen, believe it or not. It would balance out the rotation, he could be a “situational lefty” a la Jessie Orosco. And I would have no problem telling a 47 year old man with a 5.30 ERA who’s guaranteed 12m over 2yrs to go to the pen. If I were Jamie, I would drive the bus if they’d ask me and thank them for the privilege. Can you tell I’m a Jamie fan?

    The Dipsy

  152. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    Happ was good in the BP, but he wasn’t great and they didn’t use him all that much. In the rotation, he’s pitching like an All-Star.
    So, the question to me becomes: can Martinez out-pitch Moyer? If so, then he’ll get in the rotation. If not, then we don’t really wantt him.

  153. Maverick

    July 29, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Maverick is in California but i still have to chime in….this trade feels good. getting halladay would have been awesome but would have stung as well… this isnt as pleasurable but not nearly as painful either.

    i did hear Cito Gaston say we might pull the trigger for Halladay also and that he didnt think the deal was dead…. interesting to say the least.



  154. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    j reed – Thank you for the….compliment? If you think I’m savvy, then you could know as much as me if you choose to have no life and just think about THIS shit all day. But since you asked, and as I put in an earlier post, I think Ruben, if he had waited for that shit for brains in Toronto to join the rest of us in reality, could have lost Lee to another team. That would have left just Ruben and the Blue Jays and that would have been bad. We get punked on Halladay and we have no plan B. Kinda like being in a bar and taking home the average looking chick who’s the leaving the bar early as opposed to waiting till closing time for the hot blonde who’s playing just a little too hard to get. We’ve all been there.

    The Dipsy

  155. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Would Ricciardi, in a fit of desperation, ask us for Happ, Taylor, and, uh, Worley for Halladay? And, if so, what would we say? Throw in Scutaro and ya gotta deal?

    The Dipsy

  156. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Dipsy, the average-looking chick was Joe Blanton. We got the 2nd hottest chick at the bar this evening.
    Let’s hope this night as ends as well as the last one did.

  157. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    Dipsy – thanks. What about Halladay? You think he stays put? Do you know if Haren was in the running? Yeah, hard to complain if your gonna laid….

  158. Gavin

    July 29, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Pedro wont make his first real appearance until Friday?!? It will take him at least 3 starts. That means the absolute earliest we even have to think about Pedro is about Aug. 20.

    If they feel the need to move a LP out of the rotation they should put Moyer on the DL, let Pedro take a run at the rotation and if he flops move Moyer back in. If he is solid then Moyer moves to be a long guy in the pen. Moyer can do it.

    BTW, Cliff Lee is more of a FB/CB lefty than a FB/CH lefty like Moyer and Hamels, so he still gives teams a little different look.

  159. Gavin

    July 29, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Dave, who would you equate Halladay to compared to Cliff Lee in terms of girls? LOL.

  160. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Halladay is the hottest girl in the bar, of course. But I warn you, I didn’t really think this one through that much. I just wanted to write
    “The average-looking chick was Joe Blanton” which, even in context, is funny.

  161. Barney

    July 29, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Would’nt trading Happ and some prosepct, not inclunding drabek, be like passing up on 4 nights of sex with mediocore chicks to take home a playmate?

  162. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    I’ll answer that. Halladay is a Pam Anderson, Raquel Welch type. Long track record of being really stellar babes. Icons of hotness. Lee? Hot just the same but been around a shorter period of time with periods of sketchiness. Lindsay Lohan, Megan Fox, maybe?

    The Dipsy

  163. Dave

    July 29, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    I’m afraid to ask this question, but: Who would you say Jamie Moyer is, Dipsy?
    Is Jamie Moyer a MILF?

  164. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Gavin – Thing is Charlie goes with his guys…Unless Moyer really puts up bad numbers I don’t see how he’s not in the rotation. Look and I know its early, but unless the Tigers learn how to hit, the Angels don’t play the Sox in the play-offs…I just assume the Sox are a given….anything can happen of course, but the AL is much more predictable…had Lowell and Beckett been health the Rays though a good club wouldn’t have made it. So that being said, Moyer, and i’m not a hater, versus the Sox would be cruel. its a horrible match-up.

  165. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Andrew, the Phillies had no issue with putting Happ in the Holliday deal and neither did I. The issue was with Drabek and Brown. Phillies offerred Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald.

  166. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Jamie Moyer would be a babe that had a brief shining moments of greatness surrounded by more or less mediocrity. Uhh Hmmm. Perhaps a Joan Collins?

    The Dipsy

  167. Brian of CO

    July 29, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    J Reed, I agree with the Dipsy, Rueben didnt show his cards to early at all. If he didnt do this, I agree that we would have missed out on Lee. And as much as we will take ourselves out of the Halladay discussion, we still have the depth and prospects they would want to still get the deal done, it would just deplete our Pharm system more than I think Rueben would want to. We can still be in the picture, and out bid the compitition, but I dont think Ruben will. I think IF for some freakish reason that happens as well its because JP only made one official offer to a team, and that was to the Phillies.

  168. Jeff

    July 29, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    yea i want a 40 year old martinez over happ in the rotation. get real you loser.

  169. The Dipsy

    July 29, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    He’s 37, smack.

    The Dispy

  170. Ed R.

    July 29, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    So anyone think Lee is going to resign or is he a fraction of a year rental? Listening to him on the radio earlier he seemed pretty intent on becoming an Free Agent. Obviously without him having thrown a pitch for the Phillies its impossible and unfair to really speculate one way or the other but come 2011 Hamels and Happ are the only guys we have under contract. Hopefully we bring Blanton back for 2-3 years and maybe by then we have Drabek in the rotation which will leave us a spot to fill. Probably way to early to even discuss it but for the sake of conversation i thought I would bring it up.

  171. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    One aspect of this deal that still astounds me is the fact that Lee is 6.75 million cheaper than Halladay next year. He’ll be 4 million cheaper than Myers which is crazy. Toss in Fransisco as a cheap 4th OF(only 2 years ML service after this year), no Eaton 8 million, no Jenkins 6.75 million. The Phils are really set up for a nice run!

    I also think Lee being only 31 and making less money than Halladay is a much more resignable pitcher than Halladay.

  172. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    jeff, why the name calling? Happ has his chance to seal his slot in the rotation by continuing to produce. If he doesn’t and Pedro comes around he’s a nice insurance policy for a poultry million. One thing though is if Pedro isn’t in the rotation by Deptember I’d probably dump him because he has an expectation of a shot at starting. If he doesn’t get it he could become a disease.

  173. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 9:12 pm


  174. Ed R.

    July 29, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    PSUJoe…I do think from a dollars and sense view, Lee is probably more resignable but I think Halladay’s obvious loyalty makes it more plausible that if we had gotten him, he might have been easier to resign. But maybe not, who really knows.

  175. Ed R.

    July 29, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    See I would keep Pedro to throw him in the pen. I think he has the moxie to go in there for one inning and nail things down. I think he could be a decent closer in baseball for the next two years or so depending on if he his healthy. His stuff is solid for an inning or two but after that he is probably not a deep into the game starter anymore. But we shall see if he makes it into the rotation soon.

  176. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Ed, I honestly am going to trust whatever management comes up with because they are WS champs! They have put the money on the table to keep this team together as a legitimate contender.

    I have heard from 2 people that follow the Indians close and they can’t for the life of them understand why Cleveland parted with Fransisco. 13 steals in 16 attempts, 10 Hrs, .270 against lefties. This deal was all good!

  177. Brian of CO

    July 29, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Ed R. I agree that Pedro has what it takes to do it in the pen, but I think psujoe brings up a GREAT point. If Pedro isnt given the shot at starting, his disease factor could set in. In years past we as Phillies Phans were always amused by his disease factor with the Mutts, I am not sold that he wont do it to the Phillies. I am very fond of the Lee trade, not so much on the Pedro deal honestly because of his past of being the disease of a locker room.

  178. psujoe

    July 29, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    I have really started getting into the Phillies farm system this year. Anyone know anything about Austin Hyatt? 23 innings 12 hits 4 bbs, 34 KO. What are his pitches?

    Cisco gave up only 2 hits in 7 innings tonight for Clearwater.

  179. Ed R.

    July 29, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    I agree with you Brian, Pedro’s past certainly dictates that he could put up a fuss if he isn’t in the rotation. But I am also hoping that he sees this opportunity for what it is…his last chance to show that he has stuff left, if its in the rotation or the pen. He needs to take this chance and make the most of it. I would hope he sees that and that prevails over anything else. But in the same vain, guys seem to be able to be a lockeroom cancer over and over again and people will take a chance on you…see T.O(different sport but still)

    I just feel bad for Happ more than anything else if he gets sent to the pen, he doesn’t deserve it at all but he might be the only real option. Is Moyer really an option for the pen? I don’t think so. Pedro is, Rodrigo is but I think he will wind up getting designated and signed by someone else. Maybe we could trade Rodrigo and Mayberry for a reliever? Not like we need Mayberry with Brown and Taylor still in the system.

  180. j reed

    July 29, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    I think Hallalady would have re-signed …if you look at his history and how he came to be the best you’ll see a guy after one decent year, was totally rocked his second year and had to be sent down after losing 13 games, posting a 10.00+ ERA mid season. There he retooled his delivery, developed his sinker, and secondary pitches. Sounds like a guy who leaves his ego at the door, works hard and never quits…Right up our alley. Don’t know about Lee but I did read, once, after being shelled for 7 runs, responded to the torrent of boos by coming from the dug out and tipping his cap…if it its true, I know that wouldn’t go down at all here. That aside, other than CBP dimensions (his numbers are bad in hitters park) i can’t see why he wouldn’t resign with our core still in its prime

  181. Pingback:

  182. Jeff

    July 29, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    lets have another interesting article by dipshiiiiii tt

  183. David M.

    July 30, 2009 at 1:57 am

    Great trade! Makes me proud to be a Phillies fan!

  184. Alex Murray

    May 22, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    It’s a pity that Megan was dropped for the next Transformers. But I know she will do well with her next movie.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top