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Lopez Leaves With Injury

Rodrigo Lopez was removed after five innings due to inflammation in his right shoulder.  Lopez started feeling tightness in the fifth, and the velocity of his fastball dropped down to 82 mph.

“Like when the muscles are really, really tired, where it starts to bother you — that’s the way I felt,” he said.

Feeling “uncomfortable”  Lopez wanted to play it safe and avoid a long term injury.  After the game, Lopez said he felt better and no tests have been scheduled at this time.

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  1. peasant

    July 9, 2009 at 2:19 am

    i knew he was injured, why else would he leave after 5 IP and 2 ER? lets hope its nothing serious but i have my doubts he is ok

  2. j reed

    July 9, 2009 at 2:23 am

    With Beltran out it should go to Victorino as he is a center fielder. I think what happened last year with Fukidomi who owes his all star appearance to the japanese more than the cubbies faithful might happen again this year but with Sandoval who in addition to Giants fans will collect votes from all of Venezuela (probably under fear of late night visitations by Chavez’s secret police). Eventhough Sandoval deserves the nod, Shane’s #1 ZR rating makes him the more complete player. Remember the All-Star game we lost in the late innings with Chubby Caberara defending 3rd while Scott Rolen, arguably one of the best fielding 3rd basemen of his day sat on the bench watching a ground ball he would have kept in he infield.

  3. j reed

    July 9, 2009 at 2:26 am

    Sorry about this post… i put it under the wrong section….has this web site has been having alot of problems because i swear i was posting under the case for shane article?

  4. phils_ftw

    July 9, 2009 at 2:30 am

    Reed, this was an article about Shane but was changed about 20 minutes after it was put up.

  5. Brian Michael

    July 9, 2009 at 2:56 am

    Yes, it is scheduled for later this morning. Sorry about that.

    The server problems from yesterday and today have been fixed. It should be smooth sailing from here on out.

  6. Pingback: » Phillies Edge Reds on Victorino’s Walk-off Single | Blogging-Baseball.com

  7. Lewisauce

    July 9, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Another pitcher with health issues.

    Here’s how I see it all going down: Happ AND another pitching prospect (maybe Carrasco but not Drabek), Donald AND a position player (maybe Marson, but probably someone who projects higher — and maybe even three total position players, i.e. Donald, Marson, mid-level guy) for Halladay.

    This still leaves a hole in the rotation, which means we sign (gulp) Pedro.

    Halladay
    Hamels
    Blanton
    Moyer
    Pedro

    I’d prefer if the final name were Happ, but it’s pretty obvious Toronto wants him, so we’d have to part with him. Overall, I’m OK with the above scenario. If Pedro tanks, you can continue to plug from within (KK, Carpenter, maybe Lopez is fine after a day or two of rest, etc.).

  8. Morris Buttermaker

    July 9, 2009 at 9:05 am

    I think the injury to Lopez causes the Phillies to want to hold onto Happ. And I agree. As of right now, the Phillies do not have a number 5 starter. Lopez has looked good in two starts. But so did Bastardo. But I do not see much sense in trading one starter for another starter while you are still short a starter. I am not saying that Happ is as good as Halladay, but I don’t see the point in adding an ace while putting a AAA pitcher in your lineup.

    The only two people I consider untouchable are Drabek and Happ. Other than that, make it happen. We are so accustomed to losing and having bad things happen to us that we don’t realize that the Philadelphia Phillies have the chance to repeat as World Series champions and be able to make a run for 2 or 3 more years if this trade happens. Don’t want to make the same mistake of not trading for Randy Johnson because you want to hold onto Tyler Green.

  9. Ed R.

    July 9, 2009 at 9:13 am

    The difference Morris is that Lopez has more than one pitch, Bastardo does not. 98% of what he threw when he was in the majors was a fastball. Lopez can mix and match a bit. He also has the benefit of MLB experience and has twice won 15 games for a bad Baltimore Orioles team. Honestly, I’d rather trust Lopez over Bastardo and Carpenter.

  10. nk

    July 9, 2009 at 9:51 am

    from what i’ve seen i like lopez pitching. and although bastardo did look good at first, the main problem was that he only threw fastballs and became too predictable. lopez mixes his pitches plus has experience which is also another postive. hopefully, his injury isn’t too serious because he seems like he can pitch pretty well.

  11. Lewisauce

    July 9, 2009 at 9:52 am

    We are not keeping Happ if we get Halladay, period. If Doc comes, JA goes. I’m OK with this. Yous?

  12. Griffin

    July 9, 2009 at 9:53 am

    I think Bastardo’s future is in the bullpen where he can get away with throwing a fastball the majority of the time.

    To get Halladay, I think it will cost Drabek, either Brown or Taylor, Donald and another prospect (Marson?). I’d pull the trigger on that deal and go for it before Howard, hamels and co. leave via free agency.

  13. Ed R.

    July 9, 2009 at 9:58 am

    Griff – I am not sure Bastardo is even suited for the bullpen. Even a solid reliever needs two pitches. Madson didn’t become the dominate 8th inning guy he is now until he was able to really develop that amazing change up of his. Madson has the fastball and change up, Lidge the fastball and slider, Trevor Hoffman, fastball and slider etc. Really the only great reliever out there to work exclusively with one pitch is Mariano Rivera because he has possibly the best cut fastball of all time. But that pitch itself is somewhat unpredictable and does different things depending on what side of the plate the batter is on. Bastardo can only throw a fastball right now, and not even a good one. Doesn’t have much movement, just gas.

  14. Havoc

    July 9, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Well since the Jays want a SS and a catcher you can assume that Donald and Marson are going in this deal. I want Halladay but if we give up Happ we’ve patched a hole by making a new one. The Jays aren’t exactyly hurting for pitching prospects to bring up I think you can get this deal done without Happ, and if it costs Happ I’d take a run at Doug Davis who we can get for a lot less.

    My offer for Halladay would be

    1. Brown
    2. Donald
    3. Marson
    4. Savery or Carrassco
    5. one of Kendrick/Bastardo/Carpenter

    If it takes sending Savery & Carrassco instead of the kendrick/bastardo/carpenter deal I’d do that too. Hell for Halladay i’d make Knapp available. Happ though is way too important to our rotation.

  15. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 10:28 am

    the Jays already cut BJ Ryan… reports now have them looking to move Scott Rolen (I see him Red Sox-bound.. they were looking at Garret Atkins.. but Rolen plays better defense, and can still play pepper off the Green Monster)

    they are also looking to move Alex Rios (him and Vernon Wells make a ton of money).. which is why I said they would probably be interested in taking one of, if not both, of our OF prosepcts in Taylor and Brown, in any Halladay trade

  16. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 10:30 am

    Untouchable Phillies: Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown, Jason Knapp

    meaing that available guys are..

    Carrasco, Donald, Taylor, Marson, Bastardo, Savery.. and maybe even Happ

    if we could make the Halladay deal, keeping one of our OF guys and both Happ and Drabek.. I would do that in a heartbeat

  17. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Untouchable: Happ (proven MLB commodity – too valuable), Drabek (future ace, too valuable), Taylor (raw power too valuable). Knapp is too far away from tjhe majors to really slap that label on him. Apparently the Phillies wont trade him though.

  18. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 10:41 am

    If we’re slapping all these untouchable labels on guys, then I can’t really see this deal materializing for us. Period.

  19. Art

    July 9, 2009 at 10:51 am

    How about throwing Brett Myers into the deal instead of JA Happ? I realize that Myers is out for most of the season, but Toronto is looking ahead to next year.

  20. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 10:52 am

    If it doesnt happen then its doesnt mean our season is over. Im TOTALLY fine with not gettting Halladay if theyre asking for too much. Maybe you can get Haren for a little less and that works, maybe someone else.

    But teh mistake the Flyers make and the mistake that the Phillies used to make was you cant trade away guys you identify as your future core for veteran players now. The Flyers needed Pronger but this is a tad different.

    In baseball there are seeveral times more prospects. But you HAVE to pickl 3,4,5 guys and say NO, these guys arent going anywhere. Theyre part of our future no matter what or for what player.

  21. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 10:52 am

    Go for it… if you can get it done, do it… we’ve been able to plug Rodrigo Lopez and Antonio Bastardo into the 5 spot in the rotation since Myers went down. We can fill that 5 spot… hopefully, you can keep Happ/Drabek. If it comes down to Happ or Drabek, that’s a tough call. Remember, Drabek has already had TJ surgery…

    One thing to keep in mind, folks… if Halladay comes here, I’m almost certain that we won’t sign him beyond 2010 before the middle of next season so forget about the extension, for now… let him pitch under contract. Let’s say that we decide to let him walk in 2010… he’ll almost assuredly be a Type A free agent, so we’ll get a slew of draft picks if/when he walks. We would also have the ability to put him back on the market for a midseason rental in 2010 (getting sure-thing prospects in return). This deal makes a lot of sense for us.

    My list of 5 is more like 3 or 4 at this point…

    Texas doesn’t have the money… the players are making noise but the owners are trying to sell the team.

    The Yankees aren’t interested…

    Phils, Chi-Sox, BoSox (keeping quiet at this point) and Cardinals… the Cardinals have emerged as a player (according to MLBTR). I didn’t identify them as a team with pitching needs (formidable 1-3) but apparently they’re interested. I still think that it’s going to come down to the Phils and Chi-Sox.

  22. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I think it’s going to be quite straightforward. If the Jays are dismantling then the Jays will really like the key points in the Phils offer and a deal will likely get done and reasonably quickly, or this could be reminiscent of the Santana and Peavy situations where negotiations drag on, labour and inevitably stall.

    At this point its impossible to know who’s being discussed though I’d speculate the possible deal won’t be as hard to stomach as we might expect. It’s all going to come down to how available he really is and that’s something we just don’t know right now.

  23. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Victorino leads the Final Vote candidate!!

  24. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Geoff you’ve made some good points in the Halladay discussions… Where have the pie in sky ideas gone?? Do think your placing Haren’s value on the low side, his contract situation alone on D-Backs in that division alone would make him a harder target than Halladay with one foot out the door.

  25. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 11:03 am

    It sounds like the Jays’ representatives think that Amaro is not doing a good job of trying to broker a deal… everything that I read makes it sound like he’s being a bit stubborn with the prospects (no offer will include Happ, Drabek, Taylor, Brown, etc…) and the Jays aren’t having that. Even if you feel like you’re not going to part ways with those guys, don’t be stubborn about it. Let’s start conversations first… you gotta be flexible and open-minded.

  26. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 11:04 am

    Yeha. But the Phillies have the ammo to get Haren I think. They have the ammo to get Halladay too it just depends on which guys they value more than Toronto does.

  27. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Im siding with Amaro. you pick 4 or 5 guys and say NO, theyre not going anywhere.

  28. Mike N

    July 9, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Instead of having a no-trade list with five names on it, I think it makes more sense to put the highest upside guys in pairs, and say something like: we’d do Taylor or Brown, but not both. Or we’d do Happ or Drabek, but not both. And if Toronto gets one of the guys from either of these two groups, then that’s it from the top tier. So a deal would be one of Happ/Drabek/Taylor/Brown (or whoever you think the top tier is), plus, say, Carrasco/Bastardo, Marson, Donald. That’s a lot to give up, but that’s what I suspect it will take. And it’s worth it.

  29. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Bastardo cant be traded while hes on the DL.

    I just think its stupid and counterproductive to trade JA Happ, who is already solidified in your rotation. Your upgrading one spot, but leaving the other spot in jeopardy.

    EVERY TEAM in baseball faxes the teams they want to trade wth a list of guys that are off limits. Thats COMMON practice. The Jays are complaining about that? Well screw them, keep YOUR untouchables and make a deal with a team that will play ball.

  30. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 11:25 am

    I think Amaro’s playing it smart here, he’s making sure he isn’t metaphorically walking into the negotiating room with a sign on his back saying ‘screw me’ over a guy who might not be as available as we’d like to think.

  31. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 11:30 am

    EXACTLY NJ…if toronto is complaining it means Amaro is doing a good job

  32. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 11:39 am

    If the Jays want to make a deal now and not deal him inside the division then the Jays have to lower their expectation to what the Phils, Cards, Brewers will offer because unless they can coax Texas into the bidding war the Phils are in prime position when the bidding gets serious.

    Personally I see the Jays backing down off the ledge and not entering into serious trade negotiations until the off-season.

  33. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 11:42 am

    I agree, Mike… you have to try to protect your farm but we have to remember that this is not an exact science. Last year, Carrasco was off limits. For all intents and purposes, Carrasco is still our top prospect… maybe he’s not off limits and maybe he never should have been or maybe he’ll turn out to be the pitcher that scouts thought he would be when they named him Top Prospect in ’06 and ’07.

  34. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Geoff,I agree….can’t trade Happ. That would just be totally stupid . If we had healthy Brett Myers coming back in August then maybe (and I mean maybe) Happ is a consideration. But he is probably the most consistent starter right now and to get rid of him would be suicidal. Fortunately, Lopez has stepped up and given us 2 pretty good outings (I don’t think the shoulder stiffness is anything to really worry about) and Moyer has righted his ship. And Cole will consistenly get better too. My point is that we don’t have to do anything stupid here just to get Halladay.

  35. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 11:54 am

    I agree with that, NJ… I don’t think that we need to rush into anything but we don’t need to be hasty, either. At the end of the day, I would bet that the Phillies FO know for sure right now whether they’re actually going to offer what Toronto wants to get Halladay. That is, they either feel like they really want him or they feel like they can do without him (and they’ll see if they can steal him). They want to be in the driver’s seat but as long as new teams keep throwing offers out there, Toronto controls the discussions. There might be one team that will come in and sweep them off their feet… I doubt that will happen in this economy and with the teams that are interested but it could (Gordon Beckham). If we add Halladay and subtract Happ, we’re better… Halladay is a stud.

    In 2007, Happ had a 5.07 ERA with AAA Ottowa in 24 games… this is not an exact science and Halladay is the closest thing to a sure thing that you’re gonna get.

  36. christopher

    July 9, 2009 at 11:57 am

    we still have not seen bastardo’s changeup used to its full potential while he was in the majors. he has a subpar slider, i’ll agree to that, but the few times bastardo used his changeup it generally looked very good. don’t count him out as a starter yet.

  37. Chuck P

    July 9, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Playoff rotations…

    Hamels, Halladay, Blanton, Moyer

    Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Happ

    Hmmm…. which one is better???

  38. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    One thing to remember guys, if a deal happens it’s not Hamels then Halladay… It’s Halladay then Hamels and it wouldn’t be Hamels starting opening day.

  39. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Can Bastardo be in a “player to be named” scenario.. and once he’s off the DL.. he’s the guy they already agreed to trade?

    Chuck P … I agree with what you’re saying about a strong rotation.. but would you rather win the World Series again this year.. and then suck from 2012-to-2017 or so with no chance of making the playoffs..

    If we go after Halladay.. we have little chance of being able to keep both he AND Cole Hamels LONG TERM …. Moyer is gone after next year.. and we would be without viable replacements in our farm system..

    Happ isn’t Halladay.. and if you need to include him in a deal, then do it.. but you have to be able to keep Drabek if Happ goes.. or keep Happ, trade Drabek .. because you NEED to have legit options for top-to-mid rotation starters in the years to come

  40. CZ

    July 9, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Buster Olney via MLB Trade Rumors –

    Any team with serious plans to acquire Roy Halladay cannot approach the Blue Jays with a list of untouchable players, as ESPN.com’s Buster Olney points out. Here are the details:

    * If the Phillies want Halladay, they’ll have to be prepared to discuss players like Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek and Jason Knapp.

  41. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Guys….really….who gives a rat’s a$$ who is 1st and who is 2nd.

    Second….Chuck P, granted halladay is better than Happ. BUT…by sutracting Happ just to get Halladay you still have a hole in the rotation that needs to be filled. Happ is a VERY solid starter right now…..not just your 5th started that may be more expendable.

  42. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    I’d still let Hamels pitch first in the playoffs, NJ.

    Chuck: You gotta think two years from now too… and how our rotation will look then. Hamels, an expensive Blanton???, Carrasco???, Drabek???, and some washed up veteran?? Think about it. Giving up Happ today not only opens a big hole in our 2009 rotation, but an even bigger hole in the years to come.

  43. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    I was referring to Chuck P, not Chuck (so confusing!) — We agree on this Don.

  44. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    JA Happ, Jason Donald, Dominic Brown, and Jason Knapp..

    I’d do that today… we keep Carrasco, Marson, Taylor, and Drabek..

    whatever happens we need to have SOMETHING left after this deal.. and if they dont want to do business.. we’ll go after Erik Bedard instead, for less

  45. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    I need to change my name or something!!!

    Manny….I agree….trading Happ opens up a huge can of worms unless Drabek can just zoom in and take his spot right now which probably ain’t gonna happen.

  46. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    And I also like how Amaro has repetitively said some of the prospects are untouchables. Boosts our bargaining power. Suddenly, every good prospect on our team becomes more valued and wanted. Now you could get away with just dealing 1 or 2 of the top-top guys, instead of 3 or 4.

    And if Halladay doesn’t work, try someone else like Haren or Bedard. Our rotation will be solid either way. No need to punish ourselves to watch poor Phillies baseball in the next few years.

    Bottomline, our pitching RIGHT NOW going into the All-star break is really good. There shouldn’t be any rush. We want a solid guy for the playoffs, more than for July and August. Take your time, Ruben.

  47. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    I agree…Ruben’s in the driver’s seat with this.

    I’m all for getting Halladay but not at such as huge cost that by 2011 we’re a shadow of our former selves.

    Bedard is still an attractive alternative…and cheaper too.

  48. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Just voted something like 200 times…..keep it up guys!!

    Vote Bran Torino!!!!

  49. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    brown or Taylor, Carassco, Donald and Marson. 2 year $20 million per extension(Halladay won’t take less).

  50. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    If Adam Lind doesn’t make the All-Star team.. its a joke

    Halladay shouldn’t take less than $100 M over 4 years.. he’s a horse

    If i’m the Blue Jays.. I don’t trade the best pitcher in baseball right now for psujoe’s offer of Carrasco, Donald, Marson, Brown/Taylor

    I make sure that I get at least Happ or Drabek to go along with at least one of Brown/Taylor

    I don’t see the D’backs trading Haren just because they aren’t winning this season.. I think Bedard is definitely going to be traded though.

    Anyone hear anything about Cliff Lee? Im guessing Indians keep him since he’s not too expensive next season

  51. Griffin

    July 9, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Not sure which thread to post this unde, but Baseball America just posted an updated version of their top 25 prospect list.

    Dominic Brown is #17
    Kyle Drabek is #24
    Michael Taylor is #25

  52. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Don, what about?

    Drabek, Taylor or brown, Donald, marson for Halliday?

  53. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Wait, if our guys arated that high then a fair deal would be

    Drabek, Taylor or Brown, Donald or Marson and a Kendrick type

  54. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Thats too much. Look at those rankings. For Halladay, they get ONE of those top 3 guys. Youre getting a baseball america top 25 prospect, then the next guy would be Carrasco, then Donald. Thats what you get.

    Oh, and when I say they get one of those guys that doesnt include Drabek.

  55. Horace

    July 9, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Taylor is #23

    Michael Saunders is #25

  56. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Way too much…I don’t think you can include both Drabek AND taylor in the same deal

  57. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    I hate to break it to you man, but if youre holding out for Drabek/Happ then youd better not be holding your breath. The Phillies are not going to trade either of those two. You might be able to get them to crack and trade Brown/Taylor (Its looking like theyll have to trade one of them) but you KNOW Ruben isnt going to trade those two pitchers…you MIGHT get him to crack and trade Knapp – but Drabek/Happ arent going anywhere. Ill fully guarantee that.

  58. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Geoff, if I get you right you top deal would be

    Taylor or Brown, Carasco and Donald. Maybe throw in a lower level prospect?

  59. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Its PERFECTLY ok to back away from this deal if the asking price is too high. Im perfectly happy with Amaro doing that and moving onto another SP option.

  60. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I like PSU JOE’s 2nd offer..

    if Geoff doesn’t want to give up Drabek, you’ll have to give up Happ instead

    Happ, Carrasco, Donald, Brown …. I don’t know that they would trade Halladay for that..

    we have to remember this is ROY HALLADAY .. best pitcher in baseball in the eyes of many.. and they don’t need to trade him.. we either blow Toronto away with our offer.. or watch him continue to pitch for the Blue Jays this season

    High Rankings for PROSPECTS are still miles behind high rankings for ESTABLISHED STARTING PITCHERS …

    The more I think about this deal, the less likely I think Ruben is to make it

  61. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Geoff I think you are right. It would be completely stupid to trade those guys. I would be very surprised. But anything is possble, I guess.

  62. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    That would be the most Id go. And you know what? Since Knapp is only 18/19 and too far away to reasonably project with accuracy Id probably crack and do something like…

    Choice of Taylor or Brown, Carrasco, Donald, whichever of Carpenter/Kendrick they like, & Jason Knapp.

    I could live with that. I think The Phillies would too. But Drabek is pretty close to the majors and Happ is a legit starter in the NL so I would be TOTALLY shocked and a little pissed if either of those guys is traded.

  63. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    its pretty simple… be willing to part with your TOP prospects.. and you can get Roy Halladay in return..

    if you’re not willing to part with them.. you don’t get Roy Hallady. but you get to keep your prospects..

    you have to give up a lot (too much?) to get Halladay… the Blue Jays control him, and they currently control the market..

    Somebody said that Hamels would still be the #1 in the playoffs if we got Halladay.. whoever said that smokes rocks

  64. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Don M…watching him pitch for the Blue Jays for the rest of the year isn’t the worst thing. He’s in another league and the chances that the Phillies play the Jays in the WS are slim. So…..either we “steal” him or we watch him. And….we’re not gonna “steal” him.

  65. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Exactly, St Louis ran their mouth last night like theyll let the Jays take who they want…I call BS on that. EVERY team has untouchables. You really think that Brett Wallace is going to be traded? heck no…

  66. Griffin

    July 9, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    I’d give up Drabek, Brown or Taylor, Donald and a lesser prospect (not Marson, he is tearing it up as of late and will be the Phillies starting catcher in ’10).

    If the Phillies give up less than that, great. But I think that is what it will take to get it done.

  67. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Yeah if we got Halladay HALLADAY would be your Game 1 starter…not Hamels…

    I think Riccardi may have to tuck tail and back away. Basically right now is the most he will EVER get offered for the Doc. The Phillies have to offer something that beats two First Round Picks (Type A compensation).

    So either Taylor or Brown is one, now do Carrasco, Donald, Kendrick/Carpenter ALL add up to a first rd pick? I think so…I really think tahts a fair deal.

    But I ALSO think that Toronto is half-bluffing and hoping someone gets desperate and gives up too much…

  68. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    There’s no doubt Toronto are bluffing, with two more conventional window of opportunities to deal him before he becomes a free agent they can bluff

  69. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    I’m the one who said that. Halladay is the better pitcher, obviously. But in the playoffs, Hamels showed last year that he can take the pressure and shine in the national spotlight. Halladay has never pitched in the playoffs (I believe). Throw him out there for Game 1 of a divisional series and there’s a bigger chance he’ll crack. Hamels is Mr. Playoffs in my eyes until proven otherwise.

    Of course, I’ll be happy either way hehe… And this point isn’t really worth hammering. Just defending with facts my previous comment.

  70. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Kendrick is terrible.. and I don’t know enough about Carpenter to comment on him..

    Donald is OK.. Carrasco is OK .. and the OF prospects are legit..

    Blue Jays will axe a deal that is too low..

    I would be fine with a deal that included ONE of Drabek/Happ.. and ONE of Brown/Taylor … because that really is the cost of getting HALLADAY…


    Jason Knapp is #39 on that Baseball America list..

    Carrasco, Donald, Marson are not in the TOP 50 .. so their values aren’t as high as we think.

  71. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I’m willing to over pay soe to have a 1,2 of Hamels and Halliday for a minimum of 2 years. I wouldn’t part with Happ because he’s a #3 sooner than later. So I’d have to part with Drabek. Seriously Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ and Moyer is a heck of a staff. Howard is a key component to this team and big guys deteriorate fast. taylor or Brown will replace Ibanez so we can part with one.

    Halladay 1, Hamels 2 and it’snot close, IMO.

  72. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    That’s true.. but I think with Halladay.. the Cy Young winner… him accepting a trade here, would be under the belief that HE is the ACE of the staff.. and thus would get a game 1 start ..

    I agree though, Lets beat the Reds and Pirates though before we worry about our playoff rotation

  73. Geoff

    July 9, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Well what about Brown or Taylor, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp & filler(Kendrick, Carpenter)?

  74. Keith

    July 9, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    that sounds good

  75. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    This is what’s confusing… Lets say Dominic Brown, just because he’s a higher-rated prospect… OR .. .because Taylor is hitting the cover off the ball and Ruben claimed Brown as untouchable.. damn I’m confused

    Alright..

    Brown, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp, and Carpenter
    Taylor, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp and Carpenter

    I imagine the Blue Jays would insist that either Happ or Drabek replace Carrasco in the deal. Knapp is way too far away to think he’s untouchable

    6’5″ 215 lbs.. he is strikeout machine in single A- Lakewood… 111 K’s in 84 innings.. but a 3.40 ERA against that competition isn’t great.. he turns 19 at the end of next month.

  76. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    OK, let’s say we agree that as the Phil’s we like that deal.

    Brown, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp, and Carpenter
    Taylor, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp and Carpenter

    But the Blue Jays counter that they want Happ or Drabek. So we go

    Drabek, Taylor/Brown, Donald/Marson and Carpenter

    What extra could be get from the Jays or a 3rd team to add some to the pott for the Phils? Just throwing some stuff outsie the box.

    Is Bautista an FA after this year or still arbitration eligible? He’s batting .328 against lefties. Cough Barrajas is hitting over .300 againt lefties. Their solid relievers are all young.

    What about a 3 team deal with Rolen going to team X with compenstaiotn to the Jays and Phils?

  77. Chuck

    July 9, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    I agree Don, JP will most likely insist on either Happ or Drabek….so then it just depends on where Ruben’s at in his head with it. Either he pulls the trigger or walks away….it’s that simple.

    Personally, I’d love to get this guy WITHOUT losing either one…but that’s in a perfect dream world, I know.

  78. Smokey

    July 9, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Is anyone else thrilled about having the #3 (Brown) and #6 (Mike Taylor) outfield prospects and #7 (Drabek) pitching prospect in all of the minors? Knapp ranked so high is cool but I would imagine he ends up at least Top 15 within the next couple of years, since he is only 18 or 19 at this point in time. Huge potential for stardom with these guys. Hopefully the people who claim we have a pathetic farm system will be quiet now that a reputable source has printed this list.

    Given that Taylor is closer to major league ready, and that we still have a bunch of younger outfield guys who have potential (Gose, Collier, Berry, even Dugan) I feel comfortable shipping the higher-ceilinged Brown in a deal because hopefully he brings a better return. Also if the Jays actually do want Happ then I do it because nothing is certain and look at what happened to Kyle Kendrick. We have great pitching depth coming through our system and if packaging Happ allows us to land the best starter in baseball AND keep Kyle Drabek, then I think that is something you have to do right away. If a deal headlined by 5-tool, #17 overall prospect Dom Brown and 5-0 record, 3.00 ERA Happ who is experiencing a lot of success for a rookie southpaw isn’t enough to get Doc then maybe he isn’t worth it after all. Seeing how these guys are ranked on the Top 25 now makes me think that we could have an extremely good roster in about 2 years if these guys continue to develop as expected and our Major League core is still intact.

  79. Richie

    July 9, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Happ, Brown, Savery, Donald and Bastardo should really do it. I am fine with that. Ruben get it done!! If not we will be fine in a few years with these guys playing everyday with our studs we already have.

  80. psujoe

    July 9, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    WOW, Ben Maller is saying the Angels would probably give up Jered Weaver, B. Wood and multplie prospects for Halliday. Can we compete with that?

  81. NJ

    July 9, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    No we can’t but there’s no way the Angles give up Weaver with a depleted pitching staff. If the Angels REALLY want to make a deal for someone then no-one can stand in their way with the plethora of advanced prospects their meant to have.

  82. beta sigma shag

    July 9, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    my two cents, for what it is worth, I know all you love Drabek, but if it Drabek or Happ I keep Happ, Marson and Donald can defintly go, Chooch will be the starting catcher for at least 2 more years, and donald has no place to play on this team, give them Carrasco, and Drabek and those two if they want him, I would still like to think you can sign him to an extension if you get him and the go deep in the playoffs, the phillies still have some young arms that mayb be ready in 2-3 years. Also one of the two Taylor or Brown. I would be fine with that. But Happ has proven he can pitch in tough situation,and proven he has the metal capacity to pitch, I am fine not getting Halladay, if they won’t make a deal with out Happ

  83. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Let them have it.

  84. Manny

    July 9, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    …by it, I mean him (Halladay).

  85. Gavin

    July 9, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Hey guys….great take on the Halladay situation by David Murphy. Good read.

    I like the idea that it may benefit the Phils to wait and sign Halladay after the 2010 season. They will still have the core and the $$$.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Halladay_What_we_know_what_we_can_discern_and_why_2011_might_be_The_Year.html

  86. beta sigma shag

    July 9, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    one more thing you get Halladay and make the playoffs easily so you can set up your rotation, Halladay is the better pitcher right now, say he still is come playoffs.
    Hamels get the start out of respect for what he has done in the post season, and for this organization, Hamels has proven to be a hollywood stud in the playoffs why would you not start him

  87. Don M

    July 9, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Hamels has like a 5 ERA right now, and is not as good a pitcher as Halladay..

    you have one game to win.. you can take ANY pitcher in baseball..

    that list is short..

    Its got Roy Halladay at the top, along with Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, etc. .

    Hamels isn’t on that list right now

  88. Griffin

    July 9, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Interesting article on Hamels:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/hamels-is-just-fine-thanks

    It basically shows how unlucky he has been this year since his strikeouts are up and his walks are down. Very encouraging for Phils fans.

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