Other Trade Options for Halladay – Phillies Nation

Other Trade Options for Halladay

Left and right, fans are making fantasy trade proposals for Blue Jays’ ace, Roy Halladay.  Who to give up, who to keep, are the popular questions.  We hear about digging deep into the farm system trading away some of the most promising talent.  Popular names include Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and J.A Happ.  The fact is, nobody wants to get rid of these rising young stars, but in order to get Halladay, at least one of them has to be packaged.

Halladay has been one of the best, if not the best, pitchers in baseball.  No matter the cost, getting Halladay would be worth it.  Nobody can predict the future, but there may be a Cy Young in Drabek’s future, or a MVP award in Taylor’s.

The Phillies will scrutinize all options, which may be at the Major League level.  Happ, yes, but the Phillies would prefer to keep him.  Right now, Happ is the ace of the staff.  Will he face a sophomore slump?  Time will tell.  Happ may not be an ace down the road, but could find himself as the number two or three starter.  Having a middle of the rotation guy like Happ is important.  There is other Major League talent that could be explored.  Not many people have mentioned him, nor thought about trading him.  How about Shane Victorino?

Nobody wants to see Victorino go, but he is a trade alternative.  The Blue Jays would like to dump outfielder Vernon Wells and put him in a trade with Halladay.  With the move, Jayson Werth could move to centerfield, and Wells in right.  Wells is batting .263 with nine home runs, however a change of scenery may do him good.  Citizens Bank Park would be a nice fit for Wells, who has hit for power in the past.  Or the Phillies could do the same deal, only Werth instead of Victorino.

The deal would mean that at least one top prospect would stay, meaning Drabek or Taylor.  The Phillies would get the best pitcher in baseball, plus hold on to a potential Cy Young or MVP winner.  One prospect that will not stay is Jason Donald.  The Blue Jays want a shortstop, and the Jays scouted him in the past, liking what they saw.

I am not saying the Phillies should make this deal.  I am simply exploring all trade possibilities and this is something to consider. Would you be willing to trade Victorino/Werth for Halladay?

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  1. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Amanda – If we took Wells in a deal for Halladay it would look something like this: Me, you, and a bucket of warm Coronas for Halladay and Wells. Thats how bad they wanna get rid of Wells.

    The Dipsy

  2. JeffS

    July 20, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Look at Wells’ contract. Taking that thing on should get you Halladay for free. Only the NY teams and the Red Sox could afford to bid on that. Few bidders, cheap price.

  3. Havoc

    July 20, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    I’d have to agree with The Dipsy. The wells contract is one of those things that would drag down the Phillies for years. It would limit there ability to not only improve in the offseason but to make midseason trades. If the Jays insist on adding wells let Halladay go to the Yankees.

  4. Miles

    July 20, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Wells’ contract aside, the guy just isn’t producing. I personally don’t even consider anything involving Victorino, but I guess I would consider Werth for Wells. I would just be concerned that we would be making ourselves weaker offensively AND defensively just to improve our pitching, although the improvement would obviously be massive.

    I’m mostly just done talking about this. It’s either gonna happen or it isn’t. We can discuss the merits of the trade if and when it goes down, but is everyone else getting as tired of this discussion as I am?

  5. Maverick

    July 20, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Dipsy… not to mention they would probably throw in a few million dollars in spending cash.

    here’s a question…. lets say the halladay deal doenst happen.. anyone know who else the phils have been looking at?
    last year the Joe Blanton deal seemed to come out of left field….
    maybe this halladay talk is really smoke and mirrors to get someone else on the cheap….

  6. Don M

    July 20, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    We COULD trade Utley and Howard for Halladay too … but come on now..

    Ruben Amaro has already stated that you don’t ADD to your team by SUBTRACTING for your current roster .. the thing that makes the Phillies one of the most dangerous team in baseball is their explosive lineup … so you can’t take your #2, #5 or #6 hitter and trade them because it makes your team weaker.

    Not to mention the defense that these guys play..

  7. Amanda Orr

    July 20, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Dipsy, that’s what I’m saying. The Jays want to get rid of Wells, and take him for almost nothin. Put Victorino in for the Halladay trade, we get Wells, plus keep a prospect. I’m not saying they should do this, but its something to think about.

  8. mikemike

    July 20, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    The jays are nuts, they want Drabek, taylor or brown, happ, donald and marson or gose, for a rental player, and he can opt out after the season, and toronto said whoever gets him can’t talk to him about a extension until after the trade. screw them.

  9. Chuck

    July 20, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    A one-word answer to Amanda’s question in her post:


  10. SRL

    July 20, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Personally, I’d rather see Werth go than Victorino. His market value is very high right now since hes having a great season, and an addition like Vernon Wells if the Blue Jays want to include him only makes Werth that more trade-able. Also, I don’t like the idea of having Werth in Center, since hes shown that sometimes he can make RF an adventure. A package of Werth, Carrasco, Kendrick, Brown, and Knapp for Halladay/Wells is do-able IMO because you keep Happ and Drabek. If you don’t plan on keeping Wells, there are two assuming able placements in Michael Taylor (AAA) and Anthony Gose (A), and possibly even Collier.

  11. Chuck

    July 20, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    –“Also, I don’t like the idea of having Werth in Center, since hes shown that sometimes he can make RF an adventure.”–


    How does Jayson Werth make RF an adventure? He’s only made some of the greatest catches of the season….and his arm is a cannon and it is accurate.

  12. No Debbie

    July 20, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    this may be a dumb question, but can they package Pedro?

  13. Winks Tiddley

    July 20, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    I would want the Jays to eat part of Wells upcoming salary. He is surely not worth all the money he signed for and a change in scenery may be just what the doctor ordered. I would strongly consider Marsden, Kendrick, Donald, Werth and Carrasco if the Jays eat half of Wells’ remaining contract.

  14. Aaron

    July 20, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    I dont like the idea of Wells as a Philli. You keep bringing this absurd idea up. Remember people, Halladay would make the Phillies better but we dont necessarily need him. Especially to the extent of giving away an overload of young talent or ANY of our outfielders. The longer time goes by the less talent the Jays will be able to get from any team. It will look a lot like what the Twins got for Johan Santana.

    Stop blogging about Vernon Wells coming to Philly with Halladay. THere is no room for him nor would they downgrade the OF position to get him with Halladay (especially for how much he costs).

  15. Jeff

    July 20, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    This has to be the dumbest article ever. The phillies first off are not going to trade any of there core players. Why would they create holes. There offense is a machine. Nobody and there mother would take wells on. That contract is stupid. He is declining every year. They just got rid of Thomes stupid contract. If the phillies get Halliday it will be for Drabek, happ and taylor.

  16. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Wells would make our team worse. Mojo-killer. Stay away from that guy.

  17. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Amanda – lovely Amanda – by the way, what woman can love the Phillies so much as to help run a Phillies blog? You’re either a complete psycho or…..the woman I want to marry. Thats aside, Wells’ contract blocks out the sun. I would take Wells on as a replacement for Victorino or Werth if we got Halladay for a song and the Jays paid 2/3 of Wells’ salary. Of course, that won’t happens. If we’re talking about salary watin, maybe a deal involving Rios would be more realistic. I’m goin to the game tonite. We’re gonna lose. Lilly v. Lopez. Ech. Looks like Chan Ho…..and early.

    The Dipsy

  18. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Jeff…..did you say “Nobody and their mother”. Priceless.

    The Dipsy

  19. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    I meant “salary eating”. Sorry.

    The Dispy

  20. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    You SAY youd want Wells, but trust me, you wouldnt. He eats too many donuts to play CF.

  21. JeffR

    July 20, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    I’d also much prefer trading Werth than Victorino if it was an either/or. We need a #2 hitter who gets on base. Werth strikes out too much and isn’t as good a centerfielder. Werth’s production can be pretty much equalized this year with a combination of Dobbs, Stairs, and Mayberry. Maybe next year Taylor is ready. But it makes no sense taking Wells even besides his ridiculous contract. You’d be stuck with him for the next 5 years hindering the development of Taylor and Brown and preventing you from re-signing Victorino. There doesn’t appear to be a good matchup in a straight trade of Werth for a pitcher. The Blue Jays want pitching and prospects, not another outfielder. The closest would be if the Giants were wiling to trade Cain for Werth and something else.

  22. David M.

    July 20, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    They’re asking for too much for Holiday! Happ is amazing and why would we want to give up our newfound Ace and about 5 or 6 other good to excellent farm players for one pitcher thats an ace and in the process get rid of an ace and way more. This trade is way too much. Halladay’s contract ends in 10′ and we’d be dishing out way to much money and screwing over our future. I vote for saving the future of Phillies instead of instant gratification with Halladay. So many people are about instant gratification and getting what they want right now and not even thinking about the future. Screw that. No deal on Halladay unless its in our favor and not royally screwing us over in the future.

  23. David M.

    July 20, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Pardon my misspelling of Halladay, not Holiday. my mistake.

  24. NJ

    July 20, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    Phils have reportedly scouted Qualls… Boy he’d be a nice rental in the back-end of the bullpen… Wonder if that one will come to be

  25. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I HOPE they land Qualls. Probably a type A too, right? Offer arb, let walk..draft picks! Wonder what that would take?

  26. Chuck P

    July 20, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    I would like to see what Wells could do in Philadelphia over the next couple of seasons… the guy hit .300 last year with 20 HR in a bad injury-plagued season in Toronto… HOWEVER, I would not like to see what Wells would look like in Philly in 2013-2014. That contract might be the worst contract EVER awarded in MLB history. 7 years 126 million?!? We wouldn’t have to give them Vic or Werth but we would have to clear roster space so it makes sense that either of them would go in a trade that included wells. Let me make this clear, I wouldn’t touch that one with a 10 foot pole… that’s the type of deal that can turn this franchise inside-out. It might sound intriguing but we don’t need to shake things up; if we’re going to go for it, we should be trying to add to thise roster.

  27. mick

    July 20, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    Take a deep breath–you win with guys like Victorino and Werth-a deal moving either of these two popular players could rock this boat—these are heart and soul guys who bring more than statistics. As far as Halladay goes-the wrong deal here could also cause problems–i would offer minor league guys only and lots of them. This Phillie team is working in a 2-3 year window and then it will seem old

  28. Amanda

    July 20, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Dipsy.. I’m putting the salary aside. Yes, its a big thing, but the main thing is we 1) get Halladay and 2) keep a Drabek or Taylor. Or lets say the Jays eat some of his contract?

    Again, I am not saying the Phillies should do this. I’m just creating a possibility to make people think.

  29. Chuck P

    July 20, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    Qualls would be a fre agent after next season…

  30. Tom

    July 20, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    You can’t look at it just from the Phillies’ perspective. You can’t put the salary aside, that’s the entire reason Wells is on the block. If he was only on the books for 4-5 mil. then he wouldn’t be on the block. The Jays will NOT eat his contract. This Halladay deal is not happening without a blue-chipper, be it Taylor, Drabek, or Dominic Brown even. If it’s Taylor, I’m ok with it. If it’s Drabek, I don’t pull the trigger. If it’s Brown, I’m crying with excitement.

  31. CZ

    July 20, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Those who knock Werth’s defense should note that his UZR (Ulitimate Zone Rating) last year in the outfield was 35.3 which ranked him as far and away the best outfielder in all of baseball. Sometimes he does make things look like an ‘adventure’ but that’s just because he is so good at getting to balls most guys wouldn’t reach.

  32. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Amanda – You can’t put the salary aside. Its that ridiculous. Did you happen to read the article on Fri? Check it out. It all about Wells. Think Sam Dalambert. Think Jon Koncak (I’m showing my age). Think about what a snake looks like trying to digest a rat. Love ya, tho.

    The Dipsy

  33. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Qualls would be a Type A right? If so, and the price isnt extreme Id be all over that.

  34. Gary B

    July 20, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    The team is obviously fine the way it is right now, trading away Victorino or Werth would only damage the team chemistry these boys have enjoyed for the past couple seasons. Leave it be. Halladay is great but he can’t do everything…

  35. joedad

    July 20, 2009 at 4:25 pm

  36. Harold

    July 20, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    How far do you guys think we could go with the players we’ve got? I think we’re pretty set to win the division but don’t think we win the NL. Assuming Happ were to stay if we got Halladay I think we win the NL and have a great shot at another title. Maybe for next year too.

  37. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    It says Qualls is eligible for arb…interesting.

  38. Chuck P

    July 20, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Doubt that Qualls would probably qualify no higher than a Type B… Type A denotes top 20% at that position over the past two or three seasons (innings pitched, wins, saves, ip/h, k/bb, era). He was 4-8 with 9 saves last year… if he came here, he wouldn’t help himself, either (he would get fewer innings and fewer saves/wins).

  39. karen

    July 20, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I just think we need to be careful in wanting halladay too much and then losing more than we get back. halladay is awesome but at what cost? in a year, will it be worth it? who knows but thats why i am not amaro 🙂

  40. Chuck

    July 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    It’s amazing to me that people come on here constantly complaining about Jayson Werth as though he’s still fighting for a roster spot. His production at this point in the season puts him in the 30-35 hr range and somewhere between 90-100 rbis. Average is decent at.262 and OBP is .370. He can steal bases. And his fielding…..”adventurous” (GEEZ!!) as it is…… is incredible. Someone said that his production could be equalized by Dobbs, Mayberry, and Stairs. Dobbs is a nice utility guy, spot starter, guy off the bench. Stairs is a LF bat off the bench in the late innings. Period. And Mayberry is overmatched right now and needs to be sent back to Lehigh Valley for more seasoning.

  41. karen

    July 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    I think if we would be able to get Halladay without losing Happ, I would be okay with that. Halladay could fill in the 5th spot that continues to be open since myers went out. I just cannot imagine trading Happ would be a benefit for the team

  42. Geoff

    July 20, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Werth is a beast now. Hes not going anywhere until he walks and gets loads of money as a FA. Mayberry sucks because he doesnt get enough PT to get into a flow.

  43. Chuck P

    July 20, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    Halladay WILL be worth it… he’s the closest thing to a sure thing and the deal is only for a year and a half. That should not be a concern. I would be more concerned with waiting until the offseason and then nabbing a guy like DEREK LOWE for 4 years (like everyone wanted prior to this season). How do you think ATL feels about that now?

    I have been swayed… I don’t think that you can trade young Happ. I don’t think that you can trade Drabek, either. Tell Toronto to circle any four players not named Drabek or Happ and see what happens.

    Would you trade Brown, Taylor, Knapp and Carrasco?

    How about Brown, Taylor, Knapp and Marson/Donald?

    Quallsi is arb eligible after 2010… To be honest, I don’t see why we would want Chad Qualls. Our pen is finally healthy. Add Martinez who could end up being another long reliever and it doesn’t make much sense. If we do add Qualls, does that mean we’re saying adios to Durbin?

  44. Chuck P

    July 20, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Wow… my post at 4:34 was interesting…

    Doubt that Qualls would qualify no higher than…

    that should read I doubt that Qualls will qualify higher than a type B… if that… it’s a stretch. Type A is top 20% and type B is top 40%. There are a lot of relievers, which probably helps but there are a lot of full-time closers. Qualls would be helping himself by staying somewhere he could be a closer.

  45. Dave

    July 20, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Werth sucks! After all, solid defensive corner outfielders who can also play center, who are on pace for 20 sb, 35 HRs, 100 RBIs and who lead the league in pitches taken are just a dime a dozen. Every good team has a couple on the bench.

    Person who said that his production could be equaled by Mayberry, Dobbs and Stairs… AHAHAHAHA! Excuse me, but that’s funny. Those three practically couldn’t buy a spot start before Ibanez went down.

  46. MP

    July 20, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    Yeah, Victorino/Werth are going to be traded. Let’s be serious here. The latest names coming through that have supposedly been discussed are Taylor, Carrasco, & Donald for Halladay. Toronto would be right to laugh at that deal. Heyman’s reporting if Drabek is included in the deal that this thing could get done quickly. I know Drabek is supposed to become the second coming of Carlton, but who is going to be playing behind him when he is ML ready? We aren’t going to have this team forever. I don’t want to wait another 28 years – we can win now. I know this team could go far without Halladay – but with him would really solidify this team.

    Ruben, say goodbye to Drabek. Get this done. And let’s win another one.

  47. MP

    July 20, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    **Sorry aren’t going to be traded!*

  48. Andrew

    July 20, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    On a positive note the Phils just signed Heathcliff Slocumb.

  49. The Dipsy

    July 20, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    So lets not put in Drabek quickly and lets wait another 10 days and get Halladay without putting him in at all.

    The Dipsy

  50. MP

    July 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    This deal isn’t going to get done without him. Why would Toronto trade us the best pitcher in the league for 3 or 4 B prospects? Silly. If this deal dosn’t get done I will seriously question how committed this organization is to repeating. We are in a unique position. This chance might not come again. We have the prospects and money to get this deal done, and people are afraid of what, losing prospects? They are PROSPECTS. How many starting pitching prospects have come out of our system? Hamels. If you remember, Myers was hyped up just like Drabek – and Myers turned out to be okay, but not worth all the hype he got down on the farm. We would be immediate favorties with Halladay to repeat. Yeah, it’s a risk, but its one we need to take.

  51. Manny

    July 20, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Again, what is the rush?

    Anyone that’s following this story closely knows that only a few teams are willing to really go after Halladay… If we keep building on our NL East lead, we’ll have a stronger hand and the Jays will want to send Halladay over here before it’s too late. Advantage: Phils. Amaro knows this and he’s doing the right thing by not jumping on a deal that could hurt the team in the medium- and long-run. His job isn’t just to win this year, but to try and win every year as long as he’s the GM.

    The longer this story gets, the better for us. Execs, GMs, and insiders start throwing out valuable information that seems to be favoring the Phillies in a potential deal. And our great pitching performances puts us in a much stronger position.

  52. Keith

    July 20, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    no trading Victorino, Werth, or Happ

  53. Ed 2

    July 20, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    I keep hearing teams are interested, but none are willing to get rid of their best prospects. I don’t want us bidding against ourselves and getting rid of 2 of our top 3 when only one would have done the trick. RAJ needs to stick a mid range deal on the table and tell JP to take it or leave it. If he really needs to get rid of Halladay for salary relief then hes going to have to take our offer because no one else is putting anything out there.

    Also, I know the owners have departed from their usual and spent some money, but they have to be thinking that getting Halladay does not help this team one bit financially. The Phillies are at maximum earning capacity right now. There are no more seats to fill and there is little merchandise to buy. This is not a guy who is going to be selling a lot of jerseys outside of the Philly area. If we make the playoffs this year and start well next year, they will still sell out every game…the owners know that they do not NEED to win ANOTHER world series.

  54. Mazinman

    July 20, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    The Phillies should hire a big, tough, guy with a stick whose sole purpose is to beat whoever in management would come up with an idea like that. I applaud thinking outside the box for options to get Halladay but this one is not good.

    The fact that this appears to be a buyer’s market. Toronto, understandably, want a lot but no one seems willing to give it to them yet. Unless the Dodgers start dropping the name “Billingsly” we don’t need to go crazy here.

  55. Aaron

    July 20, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Amanda we dont really need to think about trading Vict/Werth.

  56. Mike

    July 20, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Enough already. Its time to put Halladay to rest and go grab Doug Davis or Zach Dukes. It looks like we’re already interested in D-Back’s closer. A line-up of

    1) Hamels 2) Davis/Dukes 3) Happ 4) Blanton in the playoffs is better than last year’s lineup and better than what we started with this season. We can hold Drabeke and give up some lesser talents. If Happ has a sophmore moment next year, we’ll have Drabeke and whomever else we get during the winter.

    That is a World Series winning lineup and it works just great for me.

  57. Andrew

    July 20, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    doug davis is a certified skell
    Hes moyer without the grey hair.
    you make the halladay trade if it means another series win.
    Looks like will have to win game 6 or 7 at fenway.
    Ill take halladay you take doug davis or zach dukes
    neitehr of whom can carry blantons jock or happs

  58. Bruce

    July 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Don M says ~ “Ruben Amaro has already stated that you don’t ADD to your team by SUBTRACTING for your current roster..”.

    I sure hope you are right about Amaro. It’s bad enough to consider losing your best prospects and pay $23 million to a rental pitcher for 1.5 years of service. Perhaps for a team who are in desperate need of a starter to keep themselves in contention. But the Phillies? The defending world champs that is surging (thanks to stabilized pitching and Rollins) and leaving other teams in the dust in their division?

    I say No, NO, NO, to any talk about trading Victorino who is such a vital sparkplug in the lineup and a gold glover in CF.

  59. Roger Roger

    July 20, 2009 at 5:58 pm


    This is utterly silly. How trading Cole Hamels and Jimmy Rollins for Coco Crisp? I’m not saying we should do it, I’m just getting people thinking.

    Look, I’m all for outside-the-box ideas – it might at least give us a respite from the merry-go-round of “should we/shouldn’t we”, “include Drabek/ don’t include Drabek” talk. But “outside-the-box” means there is still some sort of box in the picture. Your post is just nonsensical.


  60. 85

    July 20, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    This isn’t really worth considering. Despite what Toronto floated a week ago, Wells is going to have nothing to do with them moving Halladay. Simply put, there is not a team anywhere, including Boston and the Bronx, that will take on the dead weight of Wells’ deal. It’s an absolutely insane amount of money, and if they try to stick with that demand over the next 10 days they chop themselves off at the knees in regards to getting value for Halladay.

    It’s looking more and more like the Phils are in the catbird’s seat here. Toronto would hold onto him before they take a bad deal, but there doesn’t seem to be another team forcing the issue to the point where the Phils would have to do something rash like touching their everyday lineup. It’ll take a lot to get Halladay, but major league outfielders won’t come anywhere near this deal if it gets done.

  61. Andrew

    July 20, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    the halladay deal is happening and i dont care who is in it.
    i hope Marson is because I believe in Ruiz. Otherwise send every minor leaguer in the system. You get a chance to win like this every 25 years or so.

  62. Nick

    July 20, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Take on Vernon Wells’ ridiculous contract in addition to Halladay’s salary? Come on, this is the Philadelphia Phillies we are talking about. They’ll try to get a deal done for Doc, but it won’t include anyone in our lineup– anybody who wants to mess with that is insane.

  63. Josh

    July 20, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    Both contracts are way to much to take on! Our team is going to go far even without this deal, but if you have to take Wells and $5M a year in a deal and then flip him over for a reliever…. Utely/Howard/Rollins/Hamel are not going to be young forever… I say just no trade and let’s build a dynasty… I Believe…

  64. psujoe

    July 20, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Wells has Met written all over him. Pass.

    Anyone hear that Halladay has a clause in his contract that he can opt out of the last year of his contract if he’s unhappy with a new team? No effect in Toronto.

  65. psujoe

    July 20, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Anyone hearing that the Jays prefer D’arnoud over Marson?

  66. Pingback: Evening Shade: Maddon’s resurgent Rays take on White Sox

  67. Phil

    July 20, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Trade Howard for Halladay and Wells. Put Ibanez on 1B. Wells would light up NL pitching.

  68. Jeff of Nova

    July 20, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    Wy not take on Wells contract get the Jays to pay some of it like we did with Thome, and we do not give up any of our starting 8 Wells would be good off bench.

    Keep Drabek and Happ.

    Taking on Wells sould be big and take Drabek and Happ off the table.

  69. karen

    July 20, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    any trade that sends happ to toronto should not be done. drabek is at AA level, marson is AAA, taylor is AAA, Happ is 7-0 with high 2 era

  70. Whack8888

    July 20, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Trading for Halladay is a total waste —

    1) NL East is basically a lock, if the Braves, Marlins etc. (god forbid the Mets) overtake us, the team has horrific problems that Halladay would not have corrected

    2) Playoffs and World Series cannot be calculated with any reasonable degree — we either win or we dont, and the addition of Halladay is pretty much just noise against that same thing. Say the offense goes kaputt, so we could really use an ace right? Well, it is equally likely that our new ace Halladay goes kaputt and gives up 7 runs in 5 innings in the Division Series. etc. etc.

    3) Ace pitchers are a waste of resources for Phillies because of their awesome offense — the Phillies need starting pitchers that can get 6-7 innings and give up 3-4 runs. The Phillies will win most of those games. That is the style of baseball they play. If you get a pitcher that goes 8 innings and gives up 1 run, it is just a waste because he will cost a lot and the team would win anyway. Ie, what is the difference between a 6-1 win and a 6-5 win?

  71. Aaron

    July 20, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Whack8888 you are wacko.

  72. Whack8888

    July 20, 2009 at 11:19 pm


  73. Joe NY

    July 20, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    hope Mets get Roy Halladay soon

  74. Nick

    July 20, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    why do people think toronto would possibly want kyle kendrick???

  75. Bryan

    July 21, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Am I the only Phils fan who recalls two of the worst trades the Phils ever made? Sandberg/Bowa for Ivan DeJesus? Manny Trillo (and four other players whose names escape me at the moment) for Von Hayes? Mortgaging our future for a 32-year old Halladay gives me the feeling of deja vu all over again. NO HALLADAY! I like the Phils’ chances AS IS!!!

  76. Aaron

    July 21, 2009 at 12:33 am

    They may want Kendrick because he has proven to be able to succeed on the major league level and maybe just needs a change of scenery…

  77. Malcolm

    July 21, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Some of you get so down, so quickly on food-for-thought posts. No matter how unlikely or likely all this is, it’s still the same thing that Phillies fans talk about at bars when we’re out watching a game. It’s just all the “what-if’s” of MLB. There is no sport that funnels as many rumors as baseball. Screw it, some of you are just damn pathetic, getting fueled up on rumors only to come out and smash somebody else’s ideas. If you’ve been watching baseball all of your life, you might as well act like it. For every rumor in the rumor mill, there will be many scenarios.

    Also, for those of you up there who think it would be a waste to pick up a 2nd Ace. .. $15 million next year is only $3 more than Brett Myers makes this year and is a relative steal price for an ace. Santana, Zambrano, Zito, Burnett, Hudson, Sabathia and Jason Schmidt all make more than Halladay.
    — I’ve read some flat-out stupid stuff on here about “just” needing a pitcher who would give us 6-7 innings and gives up 4 runs. Hell yeah we do! Every team does. You made a point that is about as well-known as a celebrity porno. Good job. Good middle of the rotation arms are solid, but there is no question what having a good 1-2 punch at the top of your rotation can do for your team. History is all the evidence I need. Sometimes 3 and 4 runs isn’t enough. Ask Cole Hamels last year, ask Cole Hamels this year. We got hot at the right time last year, and our bullpen was better. Hamels would benefit without question from having Halladay next to him, and that move would elevate us to the level of the Red Sox.

    Even if we don’t get Halladay, I still like our chances, but, I’m still a part of the Phillies Nation who would love to see Doc in the NL East pitching in the CBP.

  78. Whack8888

    July 21, 2009 at 1:15 am

    haha, well I didnt mean for my post to come off like I was bashing the ideas listed here. Also, the 6-7 inning 4 run thing isnt supposed to be a ground breaking idea, it is just something to mention to counter the idea that we have to get an ace pitcher to be successful. I think there are other pitchers out there that would cost a lot less and give the same basic benefits back. I would love to see Halladay pitching for the Phillies as well, but there are things I dont like about this trade. I think if the Phillies can get Halladay with an extension, that changes a lot of the equation.

  79. Morris Buttermaker

    July 21, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Am I the only one who feels like the Phillies now have the upper hand? The pitching is looking good– and they have Myers and Pedro looking to add a helping hand. Blanton and Happ are looking mighty swell. Can’t complain about Rodrigo Lopes so far. Hamels is the weak link, yet he looks like he is on the brink of being dominating for the next 5 weeks. And Happ is 7-0. The offense looks incredible, best I have ever seen. What can the Jays offer us?

  80. Kennedy

    July 21, 2009 at 2:03 am

    Would never happen.

    1: Taking on Wells contract would make it impossible to resign Halladay
    2: Phillies would not want to sacrifice an offensive starter
    3: Jays would prefer a player under team control for as long as possible
    4: Nobody wants Vernon Wells. He’s a nice guy, but his contract is cancer. Makes the Oliver Perez deal look like a stroke of genius. If the Jays traded him, they’d have to write off like 70 million of that contract, and no team wants to write of 70 million. I’m sure they’d rather hold him and hope he learns to hit.

  81. Pingback: Evening Shade: Maddon’s resurgent Rays take on White Sox | ReadSports.com - Everything about sports

  82. Pingback: Evening Shade: Maddon’s resurgent Rays take on White Sox | ReadSports.com - Everything about sports

  83. nationals#1

    July 21, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Where are people getting the idea that the jays are forced to trade halladay for salary relief and that the phila can just slide them a shitty deal at the deadline and they’d be forced to take it? If they don’t get the right package of guys, he’s going nowhere, salary is not their issue, everyone has wells on their mind I guess. The team has already said that they cannot and will not win without halladay, and earlier in the season he was untouchable.

  84. PhilliesPhanofyear04

    July 21, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Why must we fix things that are not broken!!!! Keep our team. We have not played this well in a long time, why must we get older guys that may or may not play well at the time and trade our young guys that could do wonders for us.

  85. halladayfan

    July 22, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    As a Toronto fan I can tell you there is no pitcher in the game that can touch him, he pitches against the best hitters in the game and dominates them to the point they opening admit he is the best. He consistently pitches late into games (instantly improving the bullpen), brings insane work ethic that helps the younger pitchers develop, especially during spring training when he arrives at 6 am everyday. He is loyal to his team and does not demand a ridiculous salary, he just wants to win and knows that Toronto likely can’t provide a championship. Halladay is worth the top 3 prospects from any team without a doubt.

  86. Big.AK

    July 24, 2009 at 10:27 am


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