The Dip: Love Means Having To Say You’re Sorry – Phillies Nation

The Dip: Love Means Having To Say You’re Sorry

This is The Dip, a weekly column penned by our own commenter, The Dipsy. Agree or disagree with what he says? Tell us by visiting our contact page.

Old Man and the Sea of FansI happened to be logging on to Phillies Nation Tuesday when the word hit of Jamie’s comments to the press regarding his removal from the rotation. My first reaction saw my brow go white hot while my fingers went a blur across my keyboard so that I could register my outrage as quickly and unambiguously as possible. I, as well as others, were unhappy to say the least about Jamie’s comments. But as is almost always the case, sitting back and letting things cool off a bit, and trying to look at things objectively, is the best course.

Let’s start by recognizing there are really two Jamie Moyers. There is the local boy who made good. The man who has quietly gone about plying his craft while getting the most out of his God given abilities. An experienced voice in the clubhouse and mentor to young players. He is a humble man who has selflessly gives his time outside of baseball as caretaker of the Moyer Foundation along with his wife. It’s the worthiest of causes and people actually trample themselves to donate their time to help these children. I think Philly fans feel an emotional connection to who Jamie is and how he lives his life.

When you extract all of the above, which is easier for some than others, you get the other Jamie Moyer. This Jamie Moyer exists only in the here and now, and only between the lines of a baseball field. In 2008, Jamie had a stellar year. While many, including myself, felt that 2008 was not representative of the level of pitching we should expect in the coming years, Ruben signed him to a two year, 13 million dollar contract. Jamie’s style of pitching is unnerving, cumbersome, and often inconsistent. Add to the mix his stats and his age and you get a fan base that can be divided over his precise worth to the team.

I get the sense that because so many love one part of Jamie, it makes it more difficult for some of us to objectively quantify the other part, his performance on the field. Others are quite sure of what they see on the field and don’t really care about his “intangibles”. This creates conflict and division. That’s just the way it is.

2009 started terribly for Jamie, and Ruben reached out for Pedro Martinez. His presence, and the emergence of J.A. Happ, has left Jamie the odd man out of the rotation. While Jamie has had “pockets of effectiveness” the last two months, Ruben felt the need to keep Pedro coming, rightly or wrongly, and now he’s here. When Jamie got the news he was going to the pen he was understandably upset and apparently pretty raw. I don’t think anyone would fault him for giving voice to his disappointment. But what happened Tuesday was beyond the pale.

While sitting in the bleachers at Wrigley field before an assemblage of beat writers and others, he expressed his unhappiness. OK, that’s fine. But then he continued. In measured and soft spoken tones, Moyer went on to accuse Amaro of duping him into signing his contract by “assuring” him that he would always stay in the rotation. People can pick through the transcript to their heart’s content, but in the margins between his proclamations that he wished not be a distraction (which he now is), and that he would deal with the decision in a respectful way (which he didn’t), the message was clear: Ruben screwed me.

Ya see, Jamie popped off. He has now cast aspersions on Ruben’s integrity and has probably created a degree of alienation between himself and the front office, and without question, some fans. Count me among them. Don’t forget, this is not Ed Wade we’re talking about. Ruben Amaro has done a fantastic job as GM and most fans have his back on this one.

As I see it, in an off-season that included no mad rush to sign Jamie to a decent contract, Amaro gave him a lucrative one that included a guaranteed second year. I suspect that this was based in no small measure on his professionalism, character, as well as his past performance for the team. Tuesday, he set aside those very same qualities and talked smack about the GM that has been very good to him. Shame on him. Next on Jamie’s agenda should be to issue a half-hearted apology (or a sincere one if he can muster it) so we can all let bygones be bygones. After all, Jamie has earned the right to make a mistake.

Click to comment


  1. CMax

    August 14, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Well Dip, I generally disagreed with your last column about moving Ryan against LHP, but in this case I’m right there with you. Jamie was completely unprofessional with his comments, and while I can sympathize with the fact that the Front Office promised him a starter job and he’s upset that they didn’t keep that promise (and he certainly has a right to be) he needs to understand that his ERA is though the roof, and he isn’t doing his job. You can’t just “expect” the starter job, no matter what you did for the team last year. You have to earn it! And he hasn’t earned it. While I’m still unsure whether Pedro really will be better, I respect Amaro’s willingness to try something different and to see if we can improve…Jamie should respect that willingness as well.

  2. Maverick

    August 14, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Nice article Dip….you have a brain after all.

    Yeah i think your right Moyer owes Amaro an apology. I dont think it needs to be public but its something he should do.

  3. JoeFan

    August 14, 2009 at 9:43 am


    Very nice article. Any guess how Jamie will work out in the pen? And in your mind is there any way he makes the playoff roster if we make it to the playoffs? Thanks.

    And you were right about the Phillies offense awakening. They appearantly needed to be prodded by Charlie.

  4. Jeff of nova

    August 14, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Good luck with the apology there, I agree he was out of line

  5. Havoc

    August 14, 2009 at 10:00 am

    I think only injuries would let Jamie make a potential playoff roster. Unless something drastic happens no one would be able to crack the 4 starters of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ. Again assuming no injuries the bullpen will be pretty well stocked with Lidge, Romero, Durbin, Condrey, Eyre, Park, & Madson. If the Phils run with a 5 man bench you’d have room for one more relief pitcher, honestly I’d put Moyer behind Myers, Pedro, Walker, & Escalona on the depth chart for the pen. Right now he and Pedro are equal in my eyes as to who would step in for rotation injuries. Pedro needs to prove he can go deeper than 5 innings, he looked really winded at the end and lost almost all the movement on his fastball.

  6. Greg V.

    August 14, 2009 at 10:09 am

    I understand why Moyer is upset but at the same time, he more than anyone should know that this is a business. I recall seeing video of him challenging pitchers to take his job. Well, one took it. I love Moyer and I understand suffering set backs in your work environment when you have put lots of time in. It’s happened to me many times. But if you can get paid to play baseball and show up to the games wearing the uniform, I think that’s a hell of a thing at the end of the day. Hopefully Moyer appreciates that concept, despite recent frustrations. The right move was made, as much as I hate to say it.

  7. Lou C

    August 14, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Jamie is the man there is no denying that. He got replaced by a younger (but still older) Pedro that wasn’t with the team when they won the World Series; I think people forget to quickly that Jamie was a part of that championship. He thinks he deserves to be in there and there is nothing wrong with that. Jamie’s a Phillies fan too and he wants to play that’s all. It is a fact that he was the worst of our starters and was the only one that could have been replaced but that doesn’t mean he can’t be upset about it if he wants. Would it be appropriate of Jamie to be like ok that’s fine I don’t even want to start and not be mad, no way, who would expect that. Jamie can scream, complain, and say whatever he wants but he is still the man and I don’t think he needs to apologize to anyone.

  8. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:36 am

    I think this “article” was a day late and a dollar short. Saying that he should apologize (I agree he should) and he already did, and saying he is such a distraction that they swept the Cubs. He had already began showing up early to work out in the bullpen and had shown remorse for what he said, and said he will do whatever he can to help to team, this all after when he “snapped” on the subject, and before this article. When will enough be enough for the absolute HATRED towards this man. It appears the correct decision MAY have been made, but it is still a little early to say that since Moyers last outing was 3 runs in 5 inning, and that was the same outcome for Pedro. It appears unlike Moyer, Pedro will get stronger and better. But really, enough is enough, he is out of the rotation, your wish has come true. No maybe you should try what was written in the “article” that of “objectivity” and more importantly the last line that Jamie “has earned the right to make a mistake.” He made the mistake, most of everyone else moved on, including the team, and Jamie by showing up early the next day to workout in the pen and had said it was a lapse in judgement, and “just had to get it off my [his] chest”. We all know he was nearing the end, but do we need to continue to HATE the man? He made 1 mistake when it comes to his class and professionalism, and NO ONE is willing to let it go? I dont get it. I guess no one else has ever made a mistake?

  9. 85

    August 14, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Nicely done. I completely agree. The part about Jamie’s anger that rubbed me the wrong way was where he said he was “assured” this wouldn’t happen, and that he would be a starter all year. Jamie has been around long enough to know that no one, anywhere in baseball has an inalienable right to his spot regardless of poor performance. This is a results-based business, and his results were, on the whole, inconsistent at best and poor at worst. Furthermore, I find it hard to believe there were other teams lining up to give a 46-year old pitcher a two-year contract. Clearly, the Phillies showed good faith toward Moyer in their negotiations.

    What Moyer essentially did was make the argument that the front office promised him they would put him ahead of the team no matter what. That would be a dereliction of duty by Amaro. Amaro’s job is to make the team better where possible, and if he believes Pedro may provide better results that Jamie, he would be wrong not to do what he’s done.

  10. Keystone

    August 14, 2009 at 10:37 am

    I wish I could make the same money for being asked to do half the job I was originally paid for. Seriously, starter money for the bullpen, quit complaining.

  11. Chris.I

    August 14, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Moyer shouldn’t have much to say here…Reguardless what Amaro and Manuel told him, I’m sure when they said ”whatever it was they said” he wasn’t posting a 5.47 era at the time. Lets face it…5.47? Thats Adam Eaton numbers. He’s lucky Phils fans haven’t chased him out the city by now.

  12. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Dont get me wrong, I was as “outraged” as most other phans, but like the last line said, he earned the right to make a mistake. Not to mention the next day he had already started to try to clear the air a bit, and go back on what he said.

  13. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Chris I. it doesnt matter what his ERA was, people are still trying to chase him out. For instance, 4.40 ERA since May 20th. What that means is he was HORRIBLE in April and beginning of May, and since then, almost acceptable.

  14. Don M

    August 14, 2009 at 10:42 am

    I wasn’t pissed at Rollins for saying what he said last year about front-runner fans … or this year about getting moved from the lineup and wanthing to stay in the leadoff spot…

    and I’m not mad at Moyer for what he said.

    I’d rather have guys that say whats on their mind, but then go do their job..

    As long as Moyer prepares for his new role and tries to help the team win, as he said he will … who cares what words come out of his mouth

  15. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Brian…I may have missed something. I did write this on Wednesday. Has he say anything that may have been construed as remorseful since then. Not trying to be a wise acre, I just haven’t seen it.

    The Dipsy

  16. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Finally someone else says it! Thank you Don M.

  17. Chuck

    August 14, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I’m not happy about what he said or the fact that he said it……BUT……I think it’s over and done with and he’ll be very professional from this point forward.

    If we hold everything that players say or do against them then we wouldn’t have many players to support. Every player….every person makes mistakes..

    Time to move on.

  18. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Dip, Obviously this was written well before this was posted. my bad. All I saw was Posted today. He did speak on Thursday about making a mistake, and lapse in judgement. He had shown up early to work out in the bullpen, saying he still wanted to do whatever he needed to, in order to help the team. I would have to look to find it, but since I just got off of work (worked a mid shift) Im a little too tired to look for it. I recall a comment yesterday that he said he shouldnt have said it, and he thought he just need to get something off his chest. Like you said, he made a mistake, and he has earned that right. He is now out of the lineup, lets just cheer for our Phillies and stop hating on the man for one lapse in judgement and some ineffective starts. He has been replaced, and we are still sitting in a good position.

  19. Miles

    August 14, 2009 at 10:56 am

    I totally agree with Don M. I’m sick of players acting as if they are so selfless and will accept a demotion whole-heartedly to help the team. It’s better to just speak your mind, get it off of your chest, and then go back to work.

    I disagree that Jamie is a distraction. This is the first I’ve even heard it mentioned since the original story broke. You are talking about a team that played through some of the biggest distractions imaginable (Charlie’s mother’s death, every World Series ceremony in the book, HK’s death, etc.). Something as small as this will NOT be a distraction for anyone.

    In the end, Jamie’s real “apology” will have to be him working hard to be able to contribute in another role. If he does that, I feel like he will have made peace with Ruben because he is doing his job like he has been paid to do.

  20. Brian of CO

    August 14, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Dip, I also was not trying to be an Arse (your words) or anything, but I guess a combination of being tired from work, and tired of non stop Moyer Hate, I guess I snapped also, kind of like him. My bad. Lets just get down to business. We have some key series coming up, first and foremost, the Braves. Lets hope the bats keep it going.

  21. Chris.I

    August 14, 2009 at 10:59 am

    It doesn’t matter which month(s) he posted a high ERA. The bottom line is that his ERA is 5.47 right now. I have nothing against Moyer…I agree with Greg V. I seen the same video of Moyer challenging players to take his job…It wasn’t his to keep in the first place. Jamie is a man (an old man at that lol). He out of all people should know that baseball is a business, and nothing is guarenteed in this sport.

  22. Georgie

    August 14, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Wow, so the always poised, always does the right thing Jamie Moyer showed everyone that he is human and said something he probably shouldn’t have, he already feels bad about it, so can we just let it go, PLEASE? The man lost his job as a starter, and right or wrong, he didn’t take it well, why is that a surprise to anyone? Would any of you be happy to be demoted, whether deserved or not? Let’s get real here, Jamie is not a distraction now, or will he be in the future. He will accept the role that has been given him and move on, as we need to do as well.

    Almost time for Vick’s presser, and although I felt he deserved a second chance, I NEVER imagined it would be with the Eagles, let’s hope he and Chase Utley don’t run into each other.

  23. Bob

    August 14, 2009 at 11:11 am

    “He made 1 mistake when it comes to his class and professionalism, and NO ONE is willing to let it go? I dont get it. I guess no one else has ever made a mistake?”

    BAM! That is 1000% accurate. People that are contining to bash Jamie for his outburst are being hypocrites! Complaining that a guy that is all class and professionaism rips the GM.

    Well continuing to bash the guy that was a huge part of a team that won the 08 World Series is classless and unprofessional too. Jamie is the ultimate professional, he is working in the pen and will do his best when counted upon.

    And Don M is right also, I’d rather have someone that says what is on their mind, to an extent. I think I’d be more worried if Jamie said “I don’t care”.
    Dispy that was a well written article pointing out both sides of this. You were 1000% correct in stating that Moyer has earned the right to make a mistake. I’m also pretty sure that Jamie went to Ruben and apologized for his outburst.

  24. Chuck

    August 14, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Jamie Moyer is VERY LUCKY to be in the situation he’s in….a G U A R A N –
    T E E D 2 year contract. Playing for his “hometown” team. Playing for a WS winner. Playing baseball and getting paid to do it. He’s in a special group of people that get a rare opportunity….most of us don’t have that chance…most of us toil away at whatever it is that we do and make a decent living along the way….but it’s not earning millions of dollars throwing around a little ball.

    Jamie’s got the right to say whatever he wants. It’s a free country. I don’t hold it against him. But he probably SHOULDN’T have said it in the first place. It doesn’t sit well with some people. A lot of people can’t relate to that kind of complaining BECAUSE of the money he makes.

  25. Chuck

    August 14, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Bob…IF Jamie went to Ruben and apologized…then it should be made public so that the fanbase realizes it. Because….right or wrong….this won’t go away until the fans are satisfied.

  26. Bonezy

    August 14, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Nice article Dips. I definately agree. Jamie has doen a nice job for us but the writing is on the wall in case he can’t see it. It istime to retire Jamie. He does and should have to send some kind of apology, because is IS a distraction at this point. Luckily our club is not as young as some clubs and will get passed it, but it can certainly demoralize some of the younger players on this team. This is a busines and he should recognize it. There is no guarantees in that you will “never” be placed in the pen. If you stink you deserve to be there.

  27. JeffS

    August 14, 2009 at 11:30 am

    I agree completely with Georgie and Bob. The one thing that gets me and seemed to be discussed less than this whole soap opera aspect, though, is that for the life of me I cannot picture Jamie being effective out of the bullpen, despite his best efforts.

  28. beta sigma shag

    August 14, 2009 at 11:45 am

    from the title I was hoping you the one who was going to say your sorry, for constintly bashing the guy, who in his last 8 starts has been a good #5 guy in a rotation. Pedro proved he is a 5 inning pitcher even with a 11 run lead

  29. Don M

    August 14, 2009 at 11:49 am

    I think Jamie fooling hitters. which normally works for the 1st time through the lineup … it should definitely work for 1-3 innings in relief

    Also, his comments may have shocked some people.. but everyone had to know he felt that way.. his teammates definitely weren’t surprised.. we throw out the “Well he’s getting paid millions!!” arguement.. but he’s a professional athlete, he wants to keep doing his job.

    He CAN still do it.. he just hasn’t been consistent with it, but he might feel he’s just about to click.

    best of luck in the bullpen Jamie. . we’ll need you at some point, in some role, down the stretch

  30. Don M

    August 14, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “Pedro proved he is a 5 inning pitcher”

    … Pedro had to wait about 2 hours to get back on the hill to start the 5th innings, because we scored more runs in that innings then we have in any other inning this year.

    A guy with his arm not yet completely stretched-out.. having to sit for what was honestly 30 minutes or more.. of course he was going to struggle in that next inning.


    But his “stuff” looked so much better than Moyer, Rodrigo Lopez, etc.. how can you NOT like Pedro as the #5 right now????

  31. Dave

    August 14, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Beta, how about you wait a couple games before making a judgement call on Pedro? The Cubs were patient and even gave our two best starters trouble at times (although they ended up not doing so well against Lee). I’m not sold on Pedro, but it’s still to early to tell.

  32. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    I think some people may be missing MY point here. I have NOOOO problem with him saying that he’s angry, that he can still do the job and I don’t particularly care if he screamed it over the Wrigley Field PA system and then went down in the clubhouse and smashed a water cooler. BUT! Do not bring out into public your interpretation of things that were said during the negotation of your contract and then call your boss a liar. Thats T.O. territory.

    The Dipsy

  33. Manny

    August 14, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    I remember people here were all up in arms when Tim posted his Moyer prediction for 2009. He said he’d have a 3-3 record and be yanked out of the rotation… and people were all crazy about the “just 3 wins” part… And now he has 10 wins and people here again came out to remind us how the predictions were wrong.

    However, Tim also predicted in that post a 4.69 ERA and a 1.44 WHIP… as it turns out, Moyer’s ERA is 5.47 and WHIP is 1.51 as of today… notably worse than the prediction, making it obvious that we took a bit too long to yank him out of the rotation… We expected a No.3-4 starter when we signed him to a 2-year deal, and he’s had a VERY disappointing season. Not even Tim or some of us with our”pessimistic” predictions expected such a poor season from Moyer.

    Just throwing this out there so that we realize how bad this specific situation has been… Definitely a good move to give Pedro a shot.


    August 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Well done Dip! Thanks for the write up.

  35. Chuck

    August 14, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Thanks for the clarification, Dipsy…when you start to call out your boss in public, that’s when you start on the slippery slope.

    Plus…SO WHAT if there were “guarantees” made during the contract negotiations. Moyer didn’t perform like he should have. He has the HIGHEST ERA of any staring pitcher in the NL. And…..Pedro became available. It’s as simplle as that.

  36. Bob

    August 14, 2009 at 12:27 pm


    They probably should bring that public if Moyer apologized but I don’t see Amaro wanting that to happen. Amaro is already a relatively quiet GM as is. I’m sure that he and Moyer want this over with no additional public forum.

    As time goes on this will pass. Just like the “frontrunner” comments that Rollins made.

    Moyer was not right in doing what he did, but I can understand it. It is just tiring to see certain people keep ripping Moyer, even when they got what they wanted. He is out of the rotation. He said one thing wrong out of frustration, its done.

    Like I said before Moyer is going to play a key role before the regular season ends, he will start at least 1-2 more games with the schedule we have. Beyond that, who knows?

  37. Miles

    August 14, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Does anyone besides Dipsy and Bonezy view this as a distraction? I just don’t know how you can possibly say that. I mean if it is a distraction it sure as hell has been a good one. We got our asses beat against Florida at home, then came the big “distraction”, and then we swept the Cubs at Wrigley. Hmmmm…..

  38. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    Bob – I don’t see Moyer doing much unless Martinez falters. And Martinez will probably be given about 5 starts to implode, if he even does. That would put us probably to the middle of September before Jamie would be given another shot at the rotation. Even if he does start a few games, he won’t be on the playoff roster. A better question is what to do about him next year.

    The Dipsy

  39. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Miles – No, as it turns out it was a big deal for maybe 36 hours. I think Pedro’s addition to the team may have had something to do with the sweep in Chicago.

    The Dipsy

  40. joedad

    August 14, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    I lost alot of respect for him after he made that comment although i always felt he was a bit of a phony. He is a “son oh Philly” yet choses to live in Seattle.

  41. DeanH

    August 14, 2009 at 12:48 pm


    Agree with you 100%. I have not read or seen, yet, an apology to the fans and Rueben. If it exists, could someone please link it here.

    I WAS a great fan of Moyer. That is now history after his accusations of his boss. If I said what he said about my boss, I would be jobless. He owes us all an apology and a request for forgiveness from Rueben and clarification that he understands that when he is the worst pitcher in the NL, he deserves what he got. Until then, I respect Adam Eaton more than Jamie! Ouch!

  42. Dr. Baseball

    August 14, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Last time Jamie Moyer had a similar season (2000), in which his overall stats were almost exactly similar to this season, he came back the next and won 20 games with a sub 3.50 ERA.

  43. Whack8888

    August 14, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Mountain out of mole hill.

  44. Bruce

    August 14, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    I’ll ignore Dipsy’s sanctimonious comments on Moyer. Was a “great fan” of Moyer?? It’s funny; I never got that impression from your posts since day one. (chuckles)

    Don M says~ “I think Jamie fooling hitters.”

    Huh? Oh really? (chuckles) Jamie has been doing that for 23 years. He must be doing something right. 😉

    Granted, Moyer could have used a little discretion with his remarks about the GM. And.. as one poster stated, Moyer replied “..about making a mistake, and lapse in judgement. He had shown up early to work out in the bullpen, saying he still wanted to do whatever he needed to, in order to help the team.”

    There will always be a few with scorn for Moyer who at a moment’s notice will pounce on anything Moyer says or does on the field. There is no objectivity there; just plain hatred.

    Of course, these same Moyer bashers will only fixate on his total ERA and ignore the statistics such as having a 4.40 ERA since May 20th. Or the fact that from May 20th to July 27th, he had pitched 6 or more innings in 10 of 13 outings of which EIGHT are classified as “quality starts”. Instead, they focus on his two starts in August.

    Moyer is and always will be a true professional and will do what is best for the team. Let’s hope that for all those years (23) he pitched in the Majors and mastered the art of deception with his guile, he can be of use in the bullpen. Of course, should Martinez falters, Moyer is on standby.

  45. Don M

    August 14, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Can we start talking about the RED HOT ATLANTA BRAVES… instead of comments Jamie Moyer made 3 days ago

    Braves are 17-9 since the All-Star Break .. and have gone 7-3 in their last 10 games.

    Phillies are 16-10 since the All-Star Break.. and 5-5 in our last 10 games.

    Braves have played well against us all season long, and series is HUGE if either team can manage a sweep..

    Pitching Matchups:
    Blanton vs. Jurrgens tonight
    TBA vs. Kawakami tomrw (should be Hamels, but why not announced yet?)
    Happ vs. Vazquez on Sunday night

  46. JoeFan

    August 14, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Who amongst us hasn’t bashed our boss in a fit of anger a time or two? The difference is most of us don’t have a public forum to air our grievances, as Jamie had.

    That being said, I’m willing to cut Jamie alot of slack for his comments because my wife and I are both big fans. I grew up near Jamie’s hometown, and am about the same age. I was dissapointed about what he said, but I feel his pain and I’m willing to admit he said it out of frustration.

    Now, I will also say, as much as I like Jamie, I think it may be time to go. He may be a short timer with the Phils. I agree he’s a long shot to be on the playoff roster and I’m not sure he’s the best option as the #5 next year. And although I think Ruben has done an outstanding job this year, the contract he gave Jamie wasn’t one of his finer moments. I remember in the offseason thinking the Phils should have made a run for Derek Lowe instead of Jamie – although he wanted a lot of money. My recollection was that Jamie insisted on a two year deal. The Phillies wanted a one-year deal, but had to give in to get a deal done. Am I right?

  47. Bruce

    August 14, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Sorry Dipsy about the “great fan” comment when I realized it was not yours.

  48. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Bruce. Obviusly, you are Jaime’s brother in law. Its ok to like Jaime. I like him too. I just recognize him for what he is: a guy who walks a fine line between pitching just well enough to win and blowing up like the world’s largest Claymore mine (“Swordfish”). I don’t like that feeling. “Sanctimonious”? Sweet. I was just trying to be even handed. You strike me as a FOX news watcher, so lets call it “fair and balanced”.

    The Dipsuy

  49. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    I meant “obviously”.

    The Dipsy

  50. Richie Allen

    August 14, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    I think the main reason I wanted to keep Moyer last year was his effect on our young pitchers.It wasnt his pitching.He’s average at best even when he gets the calls “on the corners”.Its like Dip says ,I liked him for that “other Moyer”.

    But after that 13 mil contract,and the patience of most fans,for Moyer to lash out at Amaro in front of reporters is just not right!Its not like we got a bargain .There is no other market for Jamie Moyer.

    Take your lumps and shut up,and be glad you are a still a major league pitcher at age 46.You might wake up someday and have to get a regular job like the rest of us.

  51. Repeat!

    August 14, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    MOYER’S A PHILLY HERO FOR LIFE! It’s was tough call, but one that had to be made. This will all be forgotten in due time. This weenkend presents another potential “2-1” bonus for the Phillies. We take on the Braves;the Fish get a tough opp in the CO Rockies. If we can take at least 2/3(a sweep is preff) and get a little help from the Rockies we will get some more much needed breathing room for the strecth run. I have faith in Blanton.

  52. The Original Chuck P

    August 14, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    This piece was unnecessary…

    You know what, if Jamie takes it on the chin and acts like he’s fine with everything, nobody says a word about it. He makes a comment about being unhappy and feeling misled and people act like he’s doing push ups on his front lawn.

    If you were just benched and replaced by a guy that was DREADFUL in his last full season as a player, wouldn’t you be upset? I guess he doesn’t have the right to speak his mind.

    Who cares about what Jamie Moyer said in the dugout on the day that he was supposed to pitch? The thing about this town is that there is no objectivity and it’s always going to be about first impressions… this piece was never about Jamie Moyer, it was about validating your opinion about a guy that you feel doesn’t know how to pitch. If you look at the situation from objectively, you wouldn’t care that Jamie Moyer wasn’t happy about getting benched… anyone would be unhappy. That’s not news to me.

  53. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Thanks Chuck. I didn’t realize it until just now…when I read your post…that I was way off base. As they say in boot camp, “Thank you for showing me where I went wrong and helping me to correct it……SIR!!”

    The Dipsy

  54. Repeat!

    August 14, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Well said Chuck P. Moving on…. It’s been a while since we’ve felt nervous about the Phillies going into ATL for a 3 game series in August or any month for that matter. It’s an adlr. rush and it’s a little exciting though. I’m just glad we’ll all get to see the Phils for an entire three game series for once. fri:Myphl17/Sat:fox/Sun:espn.

  55. Bruce

    August 14, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Dipsy is in a tizzy. (chuckles) Gee, I thought you were the type who would watch the FOX news since “objectivity” is not your strong suit.

    BTW, I rather read the New York Times then watch any of the slanted news networks.

  56. The Original Chuck P

    August 14, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Well played, Dipsy… that was almost the response that I expected.

  57. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    I’m not really objective but I tried to be for Jaime’s sake. I really did. I apologize if my true colors showed through. By the way, I watch CNN.

    The Dipsy

  58. JeffS

    August 14, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    “There is no other market for Jamie Moyer.”

    Not sure about that – didn’t I read lately that Adam Eaton found a job?

  59. Repeat!

    August 14, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Well all love Jamie Moyer. Right? So there’s no need for the back and forth on this issue to continue. Let’s talk Braves.

  60. The Dipsy

    August 14, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    I think Adam Eaton is pitching for someone for free because we’re paying him. I think.

    The Dipsy

  61. JeffS

    August 14, 2009 at 1:58 pm


    That’s true; I just couldn’t resist an Adam Eaton joke, no matter how unfunny.

  62. Richie Allen

    August 14, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Jamie Moyer for president!!!!!

  63. joedad

    August 14, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Phils will win the series against the Braves and have a chance to sweep. Jurgens is tiring out, Vasquez is a small time pitcher in crunch time.

  64. Miles

    August 14, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    We gotta have a win tonight or any positive vibe we had from the sweep will be gone. Joe will be solid again and deliver 7 innings of 2 run ball. This means the offense has to grow some cojones and stop letting Jurrgens push us around like he’s Walter Johnson.

  65. The Original Chuck P

    August 14, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Jurrjens is a stud… I hope that he’s wearing down.

    Cubs are SPANKING the Pirates 11-0 in the second inning.

  66. Manny

    August 14, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Jurrjens and Vasquez are scary, but I hope that Blanton and Happ match-up well enough to win one of those 2 games… and with Hamels we don’t know what we’ll get this time around.

    This series could be a sweep for either team and it really shouldn’t be that surprising.

  67. Bob Kahn

    August 14, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Moyer being upset is OK. Moyer making statements about promises made during negotiations is absurd. If Moyer thinks he was misled I am sure the Phillies are willing to let him try somewhere else. This game is about performance. If Pedro outpitches him then whose fault is that?

    The real challenge is what to do with him now and in the playoffs. Sure he can do the doubleheaders but what do we do with him in postseason? Really he has no value. We need four starters. I would put Pedro ahead of him for the bullpen.

  68. Brian of CO

    August 15, 2009 at 1:03 am

    Why does Moyer owe an apology to the fans? Thats one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. He owes an apology (which I saw somewhere) to the ORGANIZATION, not the fans. He didnt bash the fans or say anything about the fans, he was speaking about the GM.

  69. Malcolm

    August 15, 2009 at 3:27 am

    Dipsy, you were pissed as hell when this all came out. Didn’t you say everything you needed to say in your response posts? But wow, you ended up going to such an extended level to prove your point. This piece was totally unnecessary, I’m with Chuck. If he was a distraction we wouldn’t have won our last four games. Plain and simple, I like seeing your arguments up here because they’re always so brash but well written, and I always disagree with you. Your point of having Jamie apologize to the team is just flat out nonsense. There is a reason the team took their time breaking the news to him, they knew it was going to turn out like this. If you seriously thought a 20+ year veteran of any job wouldn’t complain in that situation, then what exactly did you think would happen? That he would just bend over and let Ruben and Pedro screw him on top of a bed of money? I’m sorry you had a problem with his deal to begin with, but that’s in the past and a deal is a deal. He doesn’t need to apologize. The ONLY thing Jamie Moyer needs to do is sit back, not say anything more and help the team win in whatever way possible. I’m sure you can at least agree with me on that.

  70. The Dipsy

    August 15, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Brian – Moyer doesn’t owe the fans an apology. He does owe Ruben one. What he said was effed up. Malcolm – I might point out that the piece was written on Wednesday and you’re right, he said it, there was about 36 hours of discomfort, and no more.

    I’m sorry if I was not clear enough as to who deserves an apology. While he aggravated fans, Ruben deserves the apology and thats it. After all, what should we care if he calls his boss dishonest?

    And Malcolm, you’re right, I was pissed when in the moments immediately subsequent to this coming out. I think you were on the board with me. But hey, thats expressing your thoughts in real time.

    The Dipsy

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