Odds and Ends: Halladay Wants Out, Ticket Prices Up – Phillies Nation

Odds and Ends: Halladay Wants Out, Ticket Prices Up

– Roy Halladay alert:  He has reportedly told the Blue Jays he will not resign with them after his contract expires this season. This will certainly speed up the trading process for Toronto as they look to get as much out of him on the market as they can.

Could the Phillies possibly steal him?  The Yankees will reportedly give up either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain in any deal, plus some other prospects as well.  Would Philadelphia be willing to deal J.A. Happ and Michael Taylor in a deal for one year of Halladay?

– Edwin Jackson is on the trade block out of Detroit.  Phillies fans last saw Jackson with the Rays in the World Series a few years back.  He is not as talented as Halladay, but is much cheaper for at least the next few seasons.  Jackson made just $2.2 million last season and while he will be due a considerable raise, may come with a considerably.

Could he be had for lesser prospects?  Jackson’s numbers were very good as he earned his first all-star berth at the age of 26.  He finished with 13 wins and a 3.62 ERA in 214 innings.  The 6-foot-3 righty struggled a bit down the stretch, but is still in his formative years as a pitcher and could be the solid right hander the Phils are searching for on the cheap.

– FYI for ticket buyers – the prices are going up.  Select tickets will be $2 to $4 more expensive for the 2010 season.  Hopefully, the brass will spend a little more of it, since the tickets are already getting up there.  I know it isn’t Yankee Stadium, but lower level seats go for $40 or more, making it tough for people to afford them.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, season-ticket plans for new account holders will go on sale Tuesday. On Dec. 4, the Phils will begin selling ticket six-packs.

Group-ticket sales will begin Jan. 13, and the Phillies will sell individual tickets to spring-training games the next day.



  1. BS

    November 22, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    I hope that $2-4 extra ends up contributing to a payroll bump… for a Cliff Lee extension and a Roy Halladay acquisition.

  2. shag beta sigma delta

    November 22, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Living in Vermont, and listening to Yankee, and Red Sox fans, about tickets I think the Bank is a steal. I have a Season Ticket package, although it is not lower level, it is still a great deal, even if they go up $4. Along both baselines in the upper deck are still great seats for Under $25 in the package I have(this includes $4 increase.

  3. Pat Gallen

    November 22, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Remember just a few years ago when the bank opened you could get in for less than $10. Those days are over.

  4. Phan in nyc

    November 22, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    The Phils are not gonna go for Halladay. I wish they would.

  5. Tavian

    November 22, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Halladay is a great pitcher eight years older than Jackson. He wants a boat-load of money in 2011. Go for Jackson and two solid bullpen pitchers. Also, accept lesser players at third base like a returning Feliz or Juan Uribe. Also, Wilson Betemit is an experienced utility player better than Bruntlett. SPEND THE BIG MONEY ON PITCHING. That is what wins games. Both Uribe and Betemit can play shortstop, second, third and outfield. A lot of utility for the buck. Again: SPEND THE MONEY ON PITCHING. The Phils can score runs.

  6. joedad

    November 22, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    $3 times 3 million fans per year is $9 million which doesn’t even pay for current player raises. It is great that the Phils don’t charge so much that they exclude families from going to games.

  7. Matt

    November 22, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    I’ll be honest, as a 20 something year old guy, they priced me out about 2 years ago, and I have an above average job too. Most of the fans probably just put it on their credit card and deal with it later…

    Me, I’d rather just sit back and watch it on my HDTV on my newly purchased house. I estimated I probably saved about $2-3K over the last 2 years by not going as often. If this makes me not a die hard fan, then so be it. If half of the current Phillies fans know who Jeff Calhoun, Wally Richie, or Ron Stone is, then I’ll gladly move them ahead of me on the fan chart.

  8. Lucky

    November 22, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I think it would be in the Phillies best interest to push as hard as they can for Halladay, as long as it doesn’t break the bank..Which it possibly could. The thing with trading Happ and Taylor is…#1…Toronto would want atleast one more player in the deal just to squeeze as much as they possibly can out the deal…#2….If you traded away Happ, who would be the other #5 guy?
    ? (Moyer or Pedro possibly)

    We’ll just have to wait and see how this pans out. The Yankees want Hallday BAD, and we have to be aggresive and stop that from happening.

  9. Tavian

    November 22, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Geoff Geary is available on the free agent market. If this is not huge news, then I really do not know what is. Moreover, he pitched well for the Phils.

  10. NickFromGermantown

    November 22, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    It’s ironic that I’m saying this considering I will likely be buying a 17 game plan, but I really prefer watching games on TV. The atmosphere of the ballpark is great, but in terms of watching pitching and te rest of the action, I think you really have to watch the game on TV.

  11. George

    November 22, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    Halladay is too expensive in terms of both salary and prospects. Jackson would cost mostly in prospects, but given his youth, last year’s success, and the fact he’ll be under team control a while longer might mean grade A prospects. I doubt the Phils will gut the farm system for either.

    Betemit already signed a minor league deal with Kansas City, so he’s no longer an option.

    As far as ticket prices, I couldn’t afford a game for just myself, let alone an entire family, so increases don’t mean much to me. Anyone who can afford a ticket now probably won’t miss an extra couple of bucks, although it could cost a family too much. It’s sad when kids can’t see games at a real ballpark, with real hot dogs, real cheering, real ball game sights, sounds, and smells, the chance to catch a foul ball, or get an autograph. Those things are remembered as much as a home run or shutout, and it’s just not a real experience without that added atmosphere. I wish ballplayers and owners realized this. Kids are the game’s future, and they shouldn’t be deprived by unaffordable prices. I never cared that much about baseball until I saw an actual game, and probably wouldn’t still be a fan had I not seen one.

  12. Phil

    November 23, 2009 at 12:18 am

    There’s a reason Detroit is putting Jackson on the market…he pitched horrible down the stretch. I bet his arm is about to fall off. I think we should start the season off as is and pick up Webb or somebody else before the trade deadline. We don’t need to start off the season with two aces, plus I’d put a lot of money on Hamels bouncing back next season.

  13. karen

    November 23, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Geez, once again poor Happ is the subject of all these damn trade rumors. The Phillies will do whatever they want but what about 3b, what about some solid bullpen pitchers? backup catcher? players to use of the bench?

    And explain how Hamels is never mentioned. How does anyone know that he will return to the rare 2008 playoff form? It was said all year that he would get it back, but he did not and mentally he checked out. Halliday would be 1 year. Lee 1 year. Drabek is in reading and who knows how he will be in the majors? And, seriously, moyer or pedro as the 5th starter? wow, that is pathetic

  14. Geoff

    November 23, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Jackson is the better, cheaper move all around. Dont hold your breath on Halladay though. Id like to see a Lee extension with that ticket price hike. Thats about all it will cover though, but maybe thats what they were thinking. Who knows.

    Id actually rather trade a few decent prospects for Jackson than overpay for a 4th starter in Free Agency or sign some injured guy for 5 million dollars.

    If they traded for Halladay they would have about 5 million dollars to sign a 3B, Relief pitcher, bench infielder, and backup catcher. You cant even bring back the guys we cut loose for that amount of money so can you PLEASE drop the Halladay talk?

    MAYBE the ticket price hike is related to the Lee extension talks or the Halladay rumors, maybe not. I wouldnt hold my breath. They cant really raise prices too much more before it crosses the line and becomes outrageous.

    But maybe they do feel they can sustain this payroll with the hikes in years to come, who knows. Those outfield cheap seats better not get more than 26 bucks or so otherwise thats outrageous.

  15. Matt

    November 23, 2009 at 6:06 am

    My advice for families with kids who just can’t afford to spend $200 to take a family of 4 to a game would be to consider taking a trip on the turnpike in either direction to go to Reading or Lehigh Valley (especially Lehigh Valley – really nice facility up there).

    I started going last year, and I’ve really had a nice time at both places. It also helps that the Phillies have an actual farm system nowadays. The baseball at both places is really decent, at a great price.

  16. bfo_33

    November 23, 2009 at 7:13 am

    Toronto seems to be intent on reducing their negotiation position with every press release. They might as well put out a classified add stating “a couple of prospects or b.o.”. Also, their primary intent is reducing costs, not necessarily getting value in return. They don’t want to see Doc 19xs/yr in the other dugout.
    Here’s the other issue – what if the Yanks, BoSox,…. take him, even for a year? The Phils probably don’t need Halladay to make the playoffs in 2010, maybe they could even get back to the WS with Jackson,…., but they won’t beat CC and Halladay, or Beckett/Lester/Halladay.
    In 1980, it looked like we had 2 or 3 more rings from that team. Made it one more time with the Wheez Kids, then one memorable team in the next 25 years. There is no guarantee of a dynasty – make the move to solidify 2010. et Doc!

  17. George

    November 23, 2009 at 7:36 am

    Hamel’s 2008 form wasn’t exactly rare. He also won 15 in 2007, so a comeback is less of a stretch than landing a high-priced Halladay.

    Remember, although the Jays would like to dump his contract, there are a lot of teams interested in him. The Jays can easily hold out for the best package of prospects, and that would mean EXPENSIVE.

    As far as Moyer and Martinez as possible fifth starters, they won 15 games between them–17 if you count the ones Pedro started and Moyer finished. Most teams would salivate over those totals from the number five slot. That’s not to say there aren’t issues there, but Jackson would be too costly as an alternative.

  18. Georgie

    November 23, 2009 at 10:37 am

    So, will Halladay go to the highest bidder? Which will probably be the Yankees, right? Maybe it’s just my Monday morning mood, but I find it disgusting if that’s all that really matters to him. If he does go there, I don’t see how anyone will be able to compete with their starting rotation, so then you have practically NO competition in the AL, which sucks for the majority of the franchises and their fans. Ugh, the thought of them having a dynasty makes me feel like throwing something. Kinda the same way I felt while trapped in a movie theatre Saturday watching New Moon. I highly DON’T recommend it.

  19. beta sigma shag

    November 23, 2009 at 10:56 am

    I would have to greatly disagree that baseball is better watch in front of a TV, football yes, but baseball is a great game to watch at the stadium, you get to see everything that is going on not just where the ball goes.
    I do make a ton of money, and yes I do not have children yet. But for my wife and I to go to the games and have decent seats it really is not that expensive. I live in Vermont and have the Sunday Package, sect 417, so the last years tickets avg. about 22 dollars a piece. The $5 round trip subway ride, A few brews, some food and a program still just around $100 for the two of us. Which compared to going out to dinner and a movie is cheap, even if you eat at Fridays or some joke place like that you are going to spend $100 or maybe a little less.
    I agree that they can not break the bank and raise ticket prices though the roof. But $23-$26 a ticket is really not that unreasonable. Even a family of four, you spend $200 to go to a game($25 per ticket, and $100 on program and hot dogs and soda beer) And you go to a movie and dinner with your family the movie $40 at least, and dinner including a tip going to be $70-$90 and that is if you go to a cheaper chain place a place so thier is $110-$140 so to spend another $60 one or two times a year. Is not outragoues. I know no one wants to go but it would cost you at least $100 a ticket for bleacher seats at fenway on anygiven week day.

  20. Phil

    November 23, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Georgie, their rotation is really overrated. Burnett and Pettitte are nothing more than a #3 and #4 starter. They have no #2 starter. The problem we faced during the WS against them is that we didn’t have a #2 starter either. Hamels can be that guy, he just wasn’t this year.

  21. beta sigma shag

    November 23, 2009 at 11:03 am

    that is suppose to say I do NOT make a ton of money

  22. beta sigma shag

    November 23, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Yes I would agree Yankees rotation is not unstoppable, Burnett can only pitch at home, Petite has to almost done, And I think the Chamberline as a starter experiment is over. So after CC who do they have right now. Saying that a CC Doc 1-2 would really suck to face in the playoffs unless you are the phillies can I am pretty sure we beat CC once and had a chance to beat him twice this last year.

  23. The Original Chuck P

    November 23, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I wouldn’t want Edwin Jackson next year… he definitely hit a wall last season and was completely ineffective down the stretch (2.52 ERA first half and 5.07 ERA second half). He threw over 200 innings for the first time in his career last year… I like him and I think that he’s going to have a nice career but he has to figure out how to endure an entire season and next year might be a tough year.

    If we could somehow negotiate a sign and trade for Halladay, Rube would have to consider it. We could compliment Lee, Halladay, Howard, Utley and Rollins with rookies and has-beens and probably still win 90 games and have a sure thing playoff rotation.

    I don’t know if that’s possible… he’s probably going to want 5 years but at this point, Rube’s gotta start thinking about the future of his rotation… Which pitcher do you want anchoring this rotation for the next 5 years?

  24. bfo_33

    November 23, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I entirely agree that baseball is best watched at the field. With a family of 5 and the seat prices, we split our 7 games or so between CBP and Lehigh Valley. It certainly helps that there is now some talent down below (although I’d sacrifice some of that for Halladay), and LV is closer and easier to get in/out of then Scranton/Wilkes Barre.

  25. George

    November 23, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Toronto will want either major league talent or high level prospects. I’m not sure the Yanks have enough of either to give up, so they may not be the high bidder for Halladay. I’m not sure why people are so worried when it’s not just the dollars that matter in a trade.

    And Georgie, you may be a little off base in your disgust with Halladay. He has said he wants to try free agency, but that may not be just for the big bucks. He wants to play for a winner, not the also-ran Jays. I’m sure Utley or Howard or Rollins would try free agency, too, if the Phils were as bad as the Jays have been the past fifteen years.

  26. Georgie

    November 23, 2009 at 11:55 am

    George, I had a couple of “ifs” in that comment, because I don’t KNOW if he’ll go to the highest bidder, but I absolutely don’t blame him for wanting to leave the Jays. My disgust is with the whole mentality of wealthy teams offering huge contracts to players, while smaller markets get stuck with left-over players and can’t compete. We are very fortunate to be fans of Phila teams, but that doesn’t mean I can’t feel badly for the “little guys”. I would rather see a league where more teams have a chance to win a championship and not be out of the race by June.

  27. Geoff

    November 23, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Missed you Georgie, lol…

    Well Id rather them meet most or all of their needs and be a DEEP team next season with a deep rotation, bench, lineup, and staff. IF you get Halladay, you will get GARBAGE to fill the other positions and they will NOT be as good of a team than if they filled ALL their needs. They won the WS without a guy like Halladay. It was Hamels and a bunch of just…guys really pitching out of their minds. This year it was Lee, Pedro, and just…guys.

    I want a depth starting pitcher (4th ish type), AND I want them to get a GOOD 3B, a GOOD reliever, a GOOD utility infielder, and a decent backup catcher, and as good a 5th OF as you can get for the minimum, maybe even a Rule 5 guy.

    I want a complete team, not a team with holes in it…

  28. The Original Chuck P

    November 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    From what I’m gathering, a sign and trade is likely out of the question. I would still like to see us make a run at him. If you can get him now, you might have a chance to keep him around (if he likes it and if we treat him well). If he ends up in a place like Boston, he’s not leaving ($$ talks)… frankly, there aren’t many potential suitors out there with the talent and wherewithal to make a run at Halladay. Toronto is going to have to take what they can get from a suitor outside of the AL East and pray that he doesn’t find his way back into the AL East or trade within the division and see how that turns out. I think that we have a chance to get him at a reasonable price. They risk only getting two draft picks for him. If we can throw a couple of near-ready prospects and a mid level prospect, maybe that works. I don’t know… I know it’s a long shot (and I’m probably crazy) but I just can’t help but be enamored by the fact that we have a shot at a rotation centered on Lee and Halladay and Drabek… historically nasty.

  29. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Would JA HAPP and MICHAEL TAYLOR be enough to land Roy Halladay?? I doubt it..

    Phil Hughes is the best of the prospects named..

    I really think that Halladay to the Phillies is just a dream.. maybe as a Free Agent, but I can’t see a trade working out where we get to keep Drabek, Gose, Brown .. and get Halladay

  30. Geoff

    November 23, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Yeah: Would you rather have a more “complete team” or have you offseason additionas be Roy Halladay and A BUNCH OF GUYS WHO SUCK.

  31. jman

    November 23, 2009 at 12:37 pm


    They need a #5 guy regardless of whether Happ or Halliday is here. I think it should be Kendrick. He went down and improved his game, and did well in his late-season call-up. He can only get better. Moyer and Martinez will not improve, only decline. With the top 4 in place, the Phillies need to use the #5 spot to work in a young guy (and it’s still too soon for Drabek).

  32. The Original Chuck P

    November 23, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    If JA Happ, Michael Taylor and Drabek were enough to get Halladay last year, you have to think that two out of the three would be enough to get him today… and why not? Toronto is going to get two draft picks when he walks. Are you telling me that JA Happ and Michael Taylor are not better than the alternative for Toronto? And those two are still better than anything else that’s been offered by other non AL East teams.

  33. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    HAPP, TAYLOR, and DRABEK wasn’t good enough to get him last year

    They wanted some combination of HAPP, DRABEK, DOMONIC BROWN and ANTHONY GOSE

    they aren’t big on Taylor.. I don’t think anyone is, which is why when I suggested Michael Taylor + a pitcher for Kevin Kouzmanoff (Padres 3b), people said that was WAY TOO MUCH

    but in reality.. if no teams are interested in Taylor, does it matter than Baseball Whatever ranks him # whatever ??? It only matters what you think, and then what the other teams think of your prospects

    Phil Hughes is a WAY BETTER prospect than JA HAPP .. Happ had a nice season last year, but Hughes is younger, with more “tools, talent”, etc..

    Not sure what else the Yankees have in their farm system though

    and lets not count out the Red Sox, who needs an ACE pitcher more than the Yankees do.. Burnett is steadily injured.. Lester if good, but young.. Dice K is pretty good, sometimes.. Clay Bucholz is going to be really good.. but at that point, maybe some of their current talent will be gone ??

  34. Georgie

    November 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    haha, thanks Geoff, and I like that “Halladay and a bunch of guys who suck”, because that’s what it will end up being. I’m inclined to hang on to Happ and our prospects, it’s a risky and VERY expensive move to bring Roy here. Risky in that you’re going to have to sacrifice quality in the rest of the team to carry those HUGE Lee and Halladay contracts, and what if they don’t want to stay here, or want to go year to year? Then you’ve lost some young guys that you probably wish you could have back, for a year or two of, what? Still doesn’t guarantee another WFC.

  35. The Original Chuck P

    November 23, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    OK… then Happ and Brown. Brown or Taylor… one but not the other. I think we all feel pretty good about both…

    Phil Hughes by himself is not enough and that’s pretty much all they’ve got… unless they’re willing to trade Jesus Montero. Phil Hughes is probably untouchable, too.

  36. The Original Chuck P

    November 23, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    I doubt that Halladay would happen… but wouldn’t it be nice?

  37. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Phillies will not trade Domonic Brown, or Kyle Drabek …

    because they’ll need those guys on their Major League roster soon

    the club has offered Taylor before, which means they would be willing to move him

    Teams are more interested in Anthony Gose (who I think lead every level of baseball in Stolen Bases this year, with 76 steals!)

  38. JeffS

    November 23, 2009 at 2:37 pm


    Having watched a bit of both of them last year, I think Taylor is much closer to filling a major league role than Brown, even if Brown has greater potential. I also think Brown’s numbers in the fall league last I checked bears this out.

    What worries me is Savery – I saw a lot of his starts, and although his work ethic has improved a lot, I just don’t see him as anything close to a mid rotation guy in the bigs anytime in the future. Which means we have a whole lot riding on Drabek, so here’s hoping….

    “they aren’t big on Taylor.. I don’t think anyone is”

  39. JeffS

    November 23, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    I would have no problem trading Gose if it meant filling a real and current need. I love speed as much as anyone, but it only matters if you can get on base against MLB pitchers, which is a crapshoot with him, and he also can sometimes make routine fielding plays look like obstacle courses.

  40. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Taylor is definitely closer… but I don’t think he’s close to taking over for any of our 3 OF’s (just because Werth could become a Free Agent next year doesn’t, and could walk.. doesn’t mean that Taylor is a legit candidate to replace him.. )

    I haven’t seen Taylor play in person.. but I did get to see Brown at the end of last year.. and his speed is impressive, he floats around the field, and once he develops more power (once he grows into his body).. he’ll be an All-Star

    I also got to see Johan Flande pitch last year, and I was VERY impressed by him.. not sure what their plans are with him.. but he’s got really good stuff, and keeps the ball down in the zone (until he gets tired)

  41. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    JeffS .. I agree completely..

    BUT.. would Happ + Gose get you Halladay?
    …Probably Not

    Happ + Gose + Taylor?
    …Probably, but that seems like too much to give up for one year of Halladay

    They aren’t trading Brown, so there aren’t a lot of legit packages that make sense to deal with Toronto..

    Savery was called “risky” by lots of scouts when we drafted him.. and he’s had control problems so far ..

    Phillies have a couple of young arms that are looking at MLB-readiness in 2011-2012 … but nobody is ever a sure thing

  42. Manny

    November 23, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    How about getting a thirdbaseman first??

  43. JeffS

    November 23, 2009 at 4:04 pm


    I’ve heard great things about Flande, but I only saw him start once in Reading, and the results were not great. I think it was actually his first or second start with the R-Phils, so maybe he just wasn’t on his game yet.

    On the other topic, the difficulty in getting the seats I really want (as the Phils have gotten successful – remember the days of 15,000 people in the Vet?) is having more of an effect on me than the price increases. Used to do the Sunday plan, but ESPN kept taking more afternoon games to night, and it was just too late getting back here to the middle of PA. So now I just do the six-pack and pick all the Saturday games, and do the minor league games on weekends when the Phils are away or when I need a vacation.

  44. schwalmy

    November 23, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    they are waiting for atkins to be released by the rocks and won’t even entertain other options until it happens. they have one more year of lee on the cheap and then he is looking for cc like $$$$ and made that very clear too the indians! the reason holliday was more to the phils liking is because he was more likly too resign he wants to go to a team and retire with that team he doesnt like change but sees it as nessisary if he wants too win !!!! This is info from the trade deadline don’t know why itr would change now!!!!!

  45. JeffS

    November 23, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    Didn’t Atkins go to school with Chase? Hmmmm.

  46. JeffS

    November 23, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    If it will help Chase do better, I’m jumping on the Atkins bandwagon.


    “Atkins and Utley have been close friends since fall 1997, when UCLA coach Gary Adams had the pair of incoming freshmen infielders room together. In the decade since, as their bond has strengthened, Atkins and Utley have prodded each other to succeed.

    “If he can do it, I know I can do it,” said Atkins, the Rockies’ third baseman. “And it’s the same way with him.”

    Said Utley: “I think we do push each other.””

  47. Lucky

    November 23, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    I’m sorry to say this, but Pedro in the #5 role would be perfect. Maybe most of you forgot this, but he didn’t really pitch that bad at all…Probably a lot better than all of us expected. Not to mention, he would come a lot cheaper than probably 85% of the starters who are available in the free agent market right now. All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be upset if it happened.

  48. bfo_33

    November 23, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    By the way, the Phils got to the World Series this year with Lee and “a bunch of guys who suck” – Pedro Feliz (I like his glove, but didn’t hit after the all-star brea), Paul Bako, Matt Stairs, Eric Bruntlett, most of the pen. Imagine the same team, but insert Halladay. I’d call that a repeat. All this team needs a 3rd baseman who can play defense, bodies in the bullpen, and another top of the order starter.

  49. Don M

    November 23, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Pedro can’t start every 5th day.. and last for the entire season

    He would be smart to do the same thing he did last year, get himself in shape.. and pick which playoff contending team he wants to pitch for

    The problem with trading for Halladay.. is that you need to give up prospects to get him (or you can wait one year, not give up anything.. and have a chance to get him)

    Imagine trading for Halladay .. and then next offseason, we lose Cliff Lee to the Yankees, and Roy Halladay to the Red Sox … we would get draft picks for losing those guys, but our CLOSE prospects would be gone in those deals too

    with a CHANCE that we would get back to the World Series..

    The guys I would give up in a trade to Toronto aren’t the kind of guys they’ll want to give up Roy Halladay..


  50. Havoc

    November 23, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    I know that like you guys I’m not counting on Moyer to last the year as our 5th starter, but I think we should get comfortable with the fact that he will be our 5th starter in spring training and probably to start the season, with Kendrick, Carpenter, & Drabek ready to step in if needed. (Probably in that order) The Phils probably won’t look to sign another starter unless someone like Harden or Sheets signs for a really cheap deal.

    Rumors say that after raises and built in increases the team will have about 20 million to spend this offseason. They need a starting 3B, 3 guys in the BP, & 3 guys on the bench. Should be able to get a league minimum back up catcher, and there should be a few affordable bullpen arms out there given the market, but if we want significant improvement to the bench and a backup closer that’s going to cost us.

    With a rotation of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, & Happ I’m comfortable with seeing what we can get out of Moyer, Kendrick and the others.

    Priority for me is Adrian Beltre at 3B, Mark Derosa for the utility guy, & Brandon Lyon for the BP, just hope the Phils can afford it.

  51. psujoe

    November 23, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Rubin said the Phils had about 20 million. I wonder if that included the $9 million in ticket price increase? 29 would provide a lot more flexibility than 20.

    I agree totally with Don. Forget Halladay until he’s an FA after 2010.
    Forget Jackson who has a tired arm. Phils have enough of that.

    Phils actually need Happ’s cheap contract because of all the other huge salaries.

    I like Omar Vizqueal but not at 1.375 million. Good non-move.

    I’d go Kouzmanoff, Derosa, Lyon, as a starting point.

  52. Geoff

    November 23, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Lyon, One of Polanco/Beltre/DeRosa, Uribe, Torrealba, Kelvim Escobar (low risk high reward gamble – 5th starter or bullpen).

  53. hotstove

    November 23, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    Phillies trade JA Happ, Micheal Taylor and yohan Flande to Bluejays for Hallday

  54. SpankyYankee

    November 23, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    WORLD SERIES New York wins series 4-2.
    Oh yeah and Chase did go to school with Atkins…there are pictures of them holding hands and walking to school…also Hamels went to school with a guy name Bruce….they to held hands much tighter…hell the white house should do as good a job as the nation does maybe we wouldn’t be going downhill to obamacare…do you guys do backround checks as well. Amazing must come from the spector senator guy….you know the one who wanted to do an investigation into the super bowl against the patriots….the one #5 puked at is spector a dem or rep. now or did he change his mind again…..hey guys NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO PHILLY. Its over…. you win once every 25 years… :}

  55. Geoff

    November 23, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    That Halladay trade is such a pipe dream

  56. Griffin

    November 23, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Stay away from Edwin Jackson. He is a one half wonder.

  57. Greg

    November 23, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    WIN NOW!!!!!!!! Trade Happ & Taylor for Halladay
    Moyer will be fine with the 5th starter,Kendrick could also
    be the 5th starter.Phils could sign a Livan Hernandez cheap also.

  58. Manny

    November 23, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Haha. No.

  59. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 9:06 am

    I love these suggestions for trading all the young, talented pitchers we have.. for guys that are going to be Free Agents next season

    The Blue Jays wouldn’t trade Halladay for HAPP and TAYLOR.. no chance

    and I doubt that FLANDE would add so much to the deal that they wouldn’t turn it down ..

    We don’t NEED Roy Halladay.. it would be nice to have him in our rotation, but lets get a 3b, and a BULLPEN …. you know, have a complete team, instead of just a great rotation (since that is what won us the World Series in 2008)

  60. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 9:25 am

    Im so annoyed at this Halladay talk at this point.

  61. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Maybe the price hike means a Lee extension though or the signing of a better free agent starting pitcher – like a midtier one as opposed to an injured risk guy.

  62. bfo_33

    November 24, 2009 at 9:31 am

    It’s always nice to dream, but the reality is that over the last several years, the Phils have been very open and straightforward in their plans. They are going to sign a defensive 3rd baseman that isn’t going to cost them much in $ or draft choices (Polanco or Atkins), a spare infielder who can play 2nd and SS (with Dobbs as back-up at 1st and 3rd), and a lefty outfielder with some pop (a younger, slightly more athletic Matt Stairs). My guess is they have option 1-4 at each position already identified, as well as a slotted $ amount. If the 1st choice costs too much, they’ll go with the 2nd and down the line.
    If there is a bigger $ signing, it will be for a few bullpen arms. They will start the season with a 4 man rotation, then see if they can find something on the scrap heap, or bring in Moyer/Kendrick. Surprises are highly unlikely, that is not the way the Phils operate, and I respect them for that. They are not a cloak and dagger organization.
    If Polanco is the guy, where do you bat him? I think he is one of the best situational hitters out there, would put him at 2, Vic at 7. While this may waste Vic’s speed, his plate discipline is much better suited to the bottom half of the order, and he’ll get a lot of RBI ops. Would be an upgrade at both batting order spots.

  63. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Well, this is from Bill Conlin and I hope it’s not true:

    “However, I’m told Feliz was so hurt by being dumped after playing for two World Series teams he would not consider returning.”

  64. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 9:44 am

    haha!! happ and taylor for halladay??? that will never happen. maybe those 2 AND 2 more. this is the best pitcher in baseball we are talking about here people. you cant expect to trade a sophomore pitcher with a good rookie year and a PROSPECT for the most dominant pitcher in professional baseball. toronto would make that a very quick phone call.

    and realistically happ isnt even the centerpiece. toronto wants drabek before they want happ if you remember the negotiations from last summer.

    bottom line is…if ruben cant see a way to sign halladay to a 4 year minimum deal, then there is no point considering bringing him here at all. a 1 year rental for 2010 is not worth giving up the farm and ruben knows this. this ‘win now’ strategy is bs. utley, howard, werth, even jroll can stay together for the next 5 years if all goes well. i would rather see that happen than get in a guy like halladay and not have enough money to keep those guys.

  65. bfo_33

    November 24, 2009 at 9:54 am

    You will not see 5 more years of the core – 2 at best. Slim to no chance the Phils re-sign Howard. An AL team will overpay him with a 5 year, $100M deal that the Phils won’t (and shouldn’t) match. Even though Werth should do well in arbitration, he isn’t a youngster either – he’ll test the market unless the Phils overwhelm him with a contract. With Taylor and Brown in the system, I don’t see them doing that. In 5 years, the only current Phils on the team are Happ and Ruiz, maybe Utley.

  66. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 9:56 am

    Don – Halladay has devalued himself so much in the past six months that my suspicion is that teams know that they can get him for a good deal below fair market. If the Phillies offered Happ and Taylor, Toronto would drive Roy to the airport. If the Jays make him start the season with them he is going to be all sorts of pissed. The Blue Jays HAVE to trade him and they have no choice and they have no leverage. My guess is that because their team is a train wreck right now that they may want to really scrap it and start new. If that were the case, I would trade some of our promising lower level guys for one year of Halladay (Galvis, Flande, etc) but I’m not interested in a big time deal for him at this point. And I love Halladay. If he wants to have his contract ripped up and sign a three year deal then I would be interested.

    The Dipsy

  67. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 10:14 am


    Jayson Stark said that same thing about Feliz two weeks ago… there is little to no chance that he will return.. he was hurt that the phillies did not keep him

  68. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 10:20 am

    If the Phillies could get Roy Halladay for JA HAPP.. and MICHAEL TAYLOR


    please be realistic people..

    If I’m Toronto, I’m waiting until the trade deadline this year.. when the market for teams will most likely be the same group: NYY, BOS, PHL, LAD, LAA, etc..

    and at that point, a team might be more desperate for the services of an ACE pitcher..

    The reason the Blue Jays wanted HAPP isn’t because they think he’s some great pitcher.. it was because they needed to have someone capable of STARTING for their Major League team .. They are not interested in TAYLOR.. they wanted

    DRABEK, BROWN, and GOSE .. and the Phillies are not deadling either of the first two names

  69. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 10:28 am

    Aww man, our fans are getting crazily delusional about Halladay now…

  70. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Don, I think you’re forgetting the tiny fact that they have a new GM… and I think it is highly likely that he would’ve accepted what we offered for Roy this past season (Happ, Taylor…). And that would’ve been for a run at 2 World Series titles…

    …now it’s half of that. So Roy’s value is much lower… Taylor and Happ SHOULD get it done this time… And even then, I wouldn’t be willing to give them both up for a one-year ace (unless we manage to sign him for 3 years or so).

  71. Georgie

    November 24, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Manny, I agree, I hope it’s not true about Feliz, but Ruben dropped him like a hot potato right after the WS, so fast, in fact, I was wondering if there was more to the story. I know he didn’t have a good postseason, but his glove is still awesome, and since the rest of the line-up is so potent, I didn’t quite understand that quick move by Ruben. Shouldn’t have burned his bridges with Pedro, imo.

  72. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 10:57 am

    Yea, the more think about the whole Feliz situation, the worse I feel about it… I’ve come down to the point where I think that the only thing that would make this better would be adding Beltre… (or Figgins, but that’s not gonna happen). I need a good glove on 3B…

  73. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Dude, are you FREAKING DELUSIONAL?

    If they would accept that, the deal would have happened already…

    just because hes a new gm doesnt mean hes a SUCKER. You will have to offer him something better than two top draft picks…since a well drafted, scouted, and developed draft pick would turn into Taylor and Happ at BEST 30 percent of the time, you have to offer MORE quality players.

    The Dodgers pulled out of the talks because they were asking for CHAD BILLINGSLEY or CLAYTON KERSHAW. Niether Happ nor Taylor are as good as Kershaw or with as much upside as Billingsley.

    The Angels, it is being said, would have to part with Joe Saunders, Jered Weaver, or Ervin Santana to begin with….

    so lets use common sense here…

  74. Georgie

    November 24, 2009 at 11:03 am

    If they put someone with less defensive ability than Pedro at 3b, there are going to be alot of unhappy fans, and I’d imagine the team wouldn’t be too thrilled either. I hope this doesn’t come back to bite Ruben in the a$$. I feel Pedro would have been fine at 3rd for at least another year, he was NOT the biggest problem that needed to be addressed.

  75. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Lets also not pretend that Pedro Feliz was the greatest 3b out there..

    There are multiple players that are more productive, and more consistent offensively..

    and a few players who are better defensively as well ..

    Phillies needed to make SOME change from last year, and Feliz was the odd man out

  76. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Look, the fact is that Jays overplayed their hand last season… I’ve read plenty of articles that all seem to point to the same direction: that the deal the Phillies offered (Happ, Taylor…plus Carrasco, Donald) was good enough or very close to it… (at the very least, workable). But the Jays didn’t want to work with that –even though it is now clear that that’s the most they would’ve gotten in a trade. This is why I say that I strongly believe that the Jays would and SHOULD accept a potential deal around Happ + Taylor this time around… add to that the fact that Roy is now less valuable for all teams (one-year only)…

  77. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Geoff: Happ and Taylor (plus 15M in savings) is MUCH, MUCH better than 2 top draft picks….

  78. Georgie

    November 24, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Don, please list 3b who are better than Pedro both offensively and defensively, but only include players that we can actually acquire. Probably a short list…

  79. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Geoff and Don – Halladay hates the Blue Jays. He’s pissed and he doesn’t want to play for them. He’s got a gun to the Jays head AND a no-trade clause. Duh. Halladay can pick who he plays for. Happ and Taylor is p-l-e-n-t-y of value to send over considering how cluster effed the Jays are.

    The Dipsy

    p.s. Feliz isn’t stupid. If he can’t get a good contract somewhere else, he’d come back for the 2.5M the Phils would offer him.

  80. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 11:14 am

    See? Dipsy and I are on the same page re: Halladay. Happ+Taylor would be fair as long as we can immediately sign Halladay to an extension…

  81. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Don’t you guys think that if they Phillies could get Roy Halladay for HAPP + TAYLOR

    that they would have done it by now??

  82. Georgie

    November 24, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Alot of you guys were SO sure we were going to get Halladay when we ended up with Lee, but it didn’t happen. I do not think Happ and Taylor get you Roy, BOTH are virtually UNPROVEN in the big leagues, I know Roy wants out, but unless the Jays new GM is brain-dead, it ain’t gonna happen. I’m done with the Halladay talk. Later.

  83. mikeB

    November 24, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Adrian Beltre and Placido Polanco but Polanco is not a true, natural third baseman and is four or five years older than Beltre.

  84. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Placido Polanco, Adrian Beltre are both better suited for this lineup than Feliz, and as good or better defensively.

  85. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:21 am

    The better offensive players include:

    Figgins, Beltre, DeRosa, Polanco, Tejada,

    Figgins and Beltre are both good on defense.. not sure exactly how the other guys would work out at 3b..

    But add in names like Garret Atkins, Kevin Kouzmanoff ….

    there are more 3b out there, than there are teams that need 3b, so for the Phillies to pay $5.5 M for Pedro Feliz .. when you can possibly get a younger guy like Beltre for only a little bit more.. its worth the risk

    and if Pedro would really rather take $4 M to play in Baltimore, than $3 M to come back to Philadelphia, that’s his problem.. and he’ll have a long, long, long summer ahead of him

  86. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 11:22 am

    The Jays would be unwise to move him right now… they gotta listen to other teams just for the sake of it… and as you said, probably their best move would be to wait for a desperate team at the trade deadline…

    That being said, I think that, under the current circusmtances, a deal similar or equivalent to “Happ+Taylor” is the ceiling for what the Jays can get in return this offseason. So there should be no need for the Phillies to offer more than that if they actually want him.

  87. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 11:25 am


    “Happ Plus Taylor would be fair as long as we can immediately sign Halladay to an extension.”


    What A FREAKING JOKE! Im sorry to be like this man, but COME ON.

    There are still teams with TOP prospects that are pulling out of negotiations because they cant afford to part with them for Halladay.

    Happ + Taylor For Halladay AND an immediate negotiating period? What?!?!?!?!?!

    Are you serious?

  88. beta sigma shag

    November 24, 2009 at 11:27 am

    Unless JRoll retires he will be here in 5 years, with Utley, Hamels, Happ, maybe even Blanton, and either Vic or Wreth will resign with the PHillies. This organization gave them their chance to play, and they will give a home town discount as long as this team fits pieces in where needed and keeps winning. Going to the WS and the Playoffs every year is better then getting more money to play in Baltimore, or Texas, or Atlanta or for the Mets. I see Ryan Howard having a chance at Re signing for a couple of Million less here.
    That is why you will not see Lee, or Holliday offered $100 over five years in Philly. Maybe 3 years at 60 million.

  89. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Keep it up Geoff.

  90. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:32 am

    …and Lee will not sign a deal for 3 years, $60 Million ..

    Halladay MIGHT.. but if he’s willing to take a 3 year deal.. I can definitely see a team like the RedSox just overpaying him for those 3 years.. like $75 Million for 3 years

    It’s the length of contract more than the dollars per year..

    Phillies don’t want to sign pitchers for more than 3 years.. which in Halladay’s case is no big deal .. but Cliff Lee wants AT LEAST 5 years.. and he’ll get that from some team, but not the Phillies

  91. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 11:34 am

    No. I said that I would trade Happ and Taylor IF I could sign Halladay to an extension. I didn’t say anything about fairness. What prospects have been offered and pulled back?? What teams? I haven’t heard a damn thing. Does anybody understand that Halladay can tell the Jays exactly where he wants to go?????? He did it last year and Ricciardi called his bluff, let him sit, and got fired. Lets hope the new guy learned from his predecessor’s (sp) mistake.

    The Dipsy

  92. mikeB

    November 24, 2009 at 11:35 am

    I believe that Feliz is going to sign on somewhere else. Heard that the Orioles were interested in Feliz to replace Mora at the hot. Has anyone heard that the Tampa Bay Rays are talking with the Cubs to possibly trade Pat Burrell for Milton Bradley?

  93. mikeB

    November 24, 2009 at 11:36 am

    I meant to say at the hot corner in my last post.

  94. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 11:37 am

    I still think you have to stand firm as the Toronto GM. You CANNOT make the mistake of not getting enough for him. YOu HAVE to get top quality when you trade him, its still too early to just get rid of him…

  95. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Happ and Taylor is enough.

    The Dipsy

  96. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:44 am

    The Dipsy,

    If HAPP AND TAYLOR were enough..

    Do you think the phillies would have made the trade already??

    Cause I sure do..

    When reports have the Yankees willing to part with Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain … JA Happ looks like chopped-liver at that point

  97. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Don. You have had to repeat the same phrase like 50 times this morning, with which I wholly agree…..

    Dude, some of these guys are really hitting the peace pipe because Happ and Taylor for The Doc is a mega pipedream.

  98. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 11:53 am

    I just want to get an answer on that.. because if those two guys were really enough to land him.. we would make that trade in a heartbeat

    People right now are overvaluing our prospects, and undervaluing Roy Halladay

    They don’t HAVE to trade him.. and they would be foolish to deal him for the first thing that comes along.

    Right now you have teams focused on their payroll and their total rosters..

    In July, you’ll have at least 10 tens focused only on winning the 2010 World Series.. and all of a sudden, Roy Halladay (probably with a window to sign him to an extension) becomese the gretest Trade-Deadline Aquisition ever

  99. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Geoff, my good friend, my answer to your question is “no”. I can understand why Ruben would not want to trade those two guys, controllable for long periods of time, Happ somewhat proven, for one year of Roy. Last year at the deadline? Hell yes. But not now. Remember, Roy is calling the shots, not the Jays. Do I like Hughes or Chamberlain better than Happ. I don’t know. Its freakin close I know that. Picture this: Every team steps up with their best offer for Roy and Roy turns them all down. Then lets say two or three teams are left. The Jays will not trade him to Boston or New York. Lets says its, uh, Us, the Cards, and the Dodgers. What then? We just have to out bid two teams instead of 28 or whatever. I predict that is whats going to end up happening. Hell, just let Roy and his agent deal with teams directly.

    The DIpsy

    The Dipsy

  100. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    We have agreat farm system. But JA Happ is NOT that good. He is not better than Joba Chamberlain, though Phil Hughes may not be as good as advertised. He is not better than the guys the Angels could offer either. I expect the Angels to empty out their system plus One of Santana, Weaver, or Saunders for him. I think thats where you will see him land because they have a LOT of money coming off the books…

    Lackey will sign in either New York for the Yankees, or a surprise crappy team that offers a big time deal like the Nationals or the Orioles or something like that. Remember, the Nationals posted the secong highest bid for Mark Texeira, so they have money stashed away for the right guy.

  101. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Geoff, the Blue Jays don’t wanna pay the cash for those guys. They want minor league players and guys that aren’t gonna hit arb for awhile. WAKE UP! Do you think for one second that Halladay would allow a trade to Washington?

    The Dipsy

  102. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    wow i cant believe you guys think happ and taylor is enough to get it done. sure roy halladay’s trade value is down, but not that far. guys if it only took one prospect and one rookie to land halladay dont you think every team would have serious inquiries to toronto?? i’ll tell ya what, ‘manny’ and ‘the dipsy’ you guys dont understand the value of roy halladay. you seriously dont think the yanks, redsox, mets, dodgers would look at that deal and be like ‘whoa hold on…we can top that easily…’ of course they would. a deal to bring halladay here this winter would easily take something like this :

    2 of victornio/taylor/brown/mayberry jr.
    1 of happ/drabek
    1 of minor league relief pitcher/infielder

    i dont really want to part with that.

  103. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I have to agree with Amaro on letting Feliz go. His power has dropped every year for 4 straight years. He was awful against lefties(.208) last year which really hurts the bottom of the lineup. It would’ve been a big chance paying the 5.5 and waiting until 2010 FA when there are so many 3b available this year. Look at Feliz broke down over the year:

    April .323
    May .289
    June .281
    July .277
    Aug .222
    Sep/Oct .227

  104. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Lets just get back to 3b … something that WILL happen this offseason, instead of talks of gettin Halladay, which WILL NOT happen this offseason

  105. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    i like that don…back to 3rd base i still want beltre, and i think 8mil per season is worth it…3 year deal in an incentive package. why not? seriously the phils have nobody in the minors itching to come play 3rd base. no depth at that position. lock up beltre for 3 years while you still can, and he will outplay and outproduce 8mil per season in the phils lineup. can u imagine this guy out of the 7 hole? i would love to see it

    i would be surprised if derosa plays close to a full season anywhere next season. i think many out there agree that if he were brought in to play 3rd base, there would have to be some sort of other utility guy at 3rd base as a sort of platoon operation. i wouldnt be surprised if ruben used dobbs in this capacity. i dont like it though.

    im just not an overall fan of the 1 year bandaid ‘3rd baseman by committee’ strategy that a derosa signing seems to indicate. you have the player and the resources to do a multiyear deal now…so do it with beltre.

    figgins will be out of our price range, which i dont really mind. after 2 years when his speed declines he will be another average player in a big contract. no thanks

  106. Havoc

    November 24, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    I think Ruben and the Phils are still showing that they are one of the smarter and more well run teams around right now. We all appreciate what a great fielder that Pedro has been these last few years, in addition to the clutch hits scattered around. However, around this time last year we had a ton of people myself included hoping that we’d resign Burrell. Is there anyone out there still upset that we didn’t have Pat on the team this year? The Phils are trying not to have someone after their last good year, and it’s entirely possible that this was Pedro’s last good season, given his decline. I wish him all the best, and hope he gets a nice ovation if he returns to the bank, but if the Phils sign Beltre or Polanco they will have made a really smart move.

  107. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Amen Havoc.

  108. mikeB

    November 24, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Feliz’s big offensive drop off lasting from sometime in July through the end of season makes you wonder if he physically wore down.

  109. The Little Guy

    November 24, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Feliz offensive drop off is due to the fact that he can only hit a pitchers mistake, and hes not fluid in his hips or swing whatsoever. He looks like a statue at the plate.

    And not to mention swings at the first or second pitch far too often, and its beyond frustrating.

    Beltre, Figgins, Atkins, Kouzmanoff, Polanco, or even Derosa would make this line up much more dynamic and offensively more powerful.

  110. bob

    November 24, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Im not including Happ unless we would sign Halladay to an extension, which Im not sure would happen, outside of a 5-6 yr 110-120 million deal. I think we are looking at something similar to lock up Cliff Lee and since we are not the Yankees we will not be able to keep both.

    Just like July Halladay is very tempting assuming we dont mortage the future for 1 season of him. This means NO Happ who will be a solid 3-4 in our rotation for the foreseeable future. NO Drabek who will probably be in our rotation in 1-2 years.

    If we were to give up Brown or Taylor then we hope we can lock up Werth.

    Lots of factors into play here, looks like we will go in another direction and shore up the pen, 3rd base and bench. That’s the important areas and a rotation of Lee-Hamels-Blanton-Happ-5th starter competition is fine for the reg season. I am sure that we will be active come July for a starters assuming that we are in the hunt.

    No need to rush and pull the trigger for Halladay, other options will be out there come July and he may be one of them, although I doubt it.

  111. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Phils looking at Juan Castro to replace Bruntlett. I doubt he’ll want to cross the country to play in Philly. Strikes out a lot for a utility player.

  112. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    I didnt say Washington would go after Halladay. Read it again. I said theyd surprise offer for a big free agent though like the did last year, even if only they are secretly hoping to come in a close second to “show” their fans they care.

    The Blue Jays are not going to trade Roy Halladay to the Phillies for Michael Taylor and JA Happ (who will not be NEARLY as good a pitcher in the American League, and may not be as good next year as he was this year). If their GM did that, he would get fired, again.

    The Blue Jays still hold the cards. They can let him walk and take the draft picks and be perfectly happy with it.

    It took Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp (ALL OF WHOM are top 10 prospects in our system, AND Knapp was rated 50th in the nation overall last year in terms of minor league prospects, and all of them were rated in the top 150 or so).

    The Phillies made out great in that deal, but they did not give up garbage for him and Francisco. Those are 4 quality prospects.

    Take off a year, and add the fact that its Roy Halladay. And AT LEAST you have to give up the same type of package that we gave up last year – at least.

    It would take at least Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose, Domonic Brown, and a few other decent prospects. You would basically empty the top talent in your farm system for one year of one guy, and youd have to throw in another great prospect to get them to give you a negotiation window. So…no.Not gonna happen.

    I am sorry man, but you are just not living in the real world here. Thats a fake video game trade, and Im done talking about this crazy idea until something SUBSTANTIVE happens or is reported.

  113. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Castro will stay where he is I think. Why pursue someone like that while there are sitll utility players around who are actually GOOD?

  114. joedad

    November 24, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Re: “a deal to bring halladay here this winter would easily take something like this :

    2 of victornio/taylor/brown/mayberry jr.
    1 of happ/drabek
    1 of minor league relief pitcher/infielder”

    1 – Toronto doesn’t have that kind of leverage because they are trading Halladay for one year rather than two and Halladay needs to approve the trade. Halladay probably would not approve a trade unless he gets an extension similar to Santana in 2007.
    2 – Victorino will not be traded and to put him in the same company as Mayberry and taylor/brown is silly.
    3 – Halladay is due a lot of money so Toronto may want to dump the salary. Happ is cheap and came in 2nd in the Rookie of the year voting. Trading for a good young pitcher like Happ is easier to sell to your fans than Drabek who may be a few years away. Adding Taylor and a middle prospect would be enough if the Phils can swallow the salary.

    I think they may go hard after Halladay IF they think they cannot resign Lee long term.

  115. joedad

    November 24, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    It took Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp (ALL OF WHOM are top 10 prospects in our system, AND Knapp was rated 50th in the nation overall last year in terms of minor league prospects, and all of them were rated in the top 150 or so) for TWO years of Cliff Lee. The price for ONE year of Halladay will not be as high.

  116. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    But its Roy Halladay, and youre going to want a negotiating window so that WHEN you empty out your top prospects and a top young player/pitcher on the roster already that you can keep teh guy around.

    Therefore, it will be at least the same.

  117. bob

    November 24, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    If we were to trade for Halladay it would be a rental, unless we somehow have turned into the Yankees.

    I personally don’t think it’s smart to be giving up what we would of had to in July for 1 year of Halladay. Maybe it would of been acceptable for 2 shots at the World Series at the time.

    Cliff Lee is capable of anchoring this rotation and we know what Hamels is capable when on. Blanton is a fine #3, Happ was excellent and pitched above a #4 last season. You have options of Moyer, Kendrick, Carpenter for #5.

    Priorites in my eyes as I take a look and have taken breaths since WS:
    1. Bullpen help (at least 2)
    2. Bench help
    3. Third Base-Plenty of options to go with there
    4. Look into the possibilty of extending Cliff Lee
    5. After this, then I take a look at the market for starting pitching. Don’t think we will really need to address this until July.

  118. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    the phillies real priorities, in order of importance, should follow this plan:

    number one priority–sign lee long term. 5 year 90 mil plus signing/incentive bonuses. do it now otherwise he’ll get that deal (or better) somewhere else next year as a free agent.

    number two priority–sign adrian beltre 3 year minimum deal. hes got good right handed pop and will put up great numbers in our potent lineup. from a purely offensive production standpoint, beltre is the best FA 3rd baseman out there with a good outlook for the future. his recent injury season should make his pricetag be less competitive over a multiyear deal. figgins will be too expensive and not worth a long term deal. when his speed deteriorates he will be below average. beltre is the perfect fit, especially since the heir apparent to 3rd base in the minor leagues was sent to cleveland.

    3rd priority–utility/bench bat. if the phils could convince derosa to take this he would be the best utility guy. but realistically he is still good enough to play more games on a mediocre team. i like hairston jr. for 1 year, he plays IF and OF like bruntlett. probably can get him for 1 year 1mil. nobodys really talking about him but i think he would be a cost effective fit here as a way to give guys a break.

    –priority 4–bullpen strength–one guy is all you need. madson/lidge already paid for. a healthy romero and (hopefully) park will be back next season also. i like the idea of testing out minor league guys at least least early in the season. mathieson, bastardo, zagurski good trial-n-error guys. if they work out you can leave them there and it didnt cost you a huge investment. ruben doesnt like this idea so he ll probabaly get someone in FA. i just hope he doenst overpay for a bullpen guy that will end up being mediocre at best. if i had to pick a multiyear guy it would be lyon, even though he could be expensive a 2 year deal with him looks promising. 1 year deals with veteran guys on the cheap–u can pick any really i like octavio dotel/darren oliver etc. bottom line…dont spend alot of money here ruben…

    priority 5–backup catcher/bench–not alot to choose from, would have to be mid-to-late 30s because of backup role to carlos. jason kendall still has decent obp, i like valentin a switch hitter. either one to a 1year deal

  119. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Speaking of things that will never happen.. how about Roy Halladay getting traded to the phillies this offseason

  120. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Geoff. You are assuming that the Blue Jays will get full value for Halladay and they will not. The Blue Jays do not hold the cards. Roy Halladay does. You are assuming that the Blue Jays are operating in a free and open market. They are not. They are operating in a vacuum comprised of the teams of Roy’s choosing. That is why it will not take as much as you think for Roy, the reason being that Roy probably won’t want to go to the team that is offering the very best package. Why can’t you understand this? The Blue Jays will not end up trading Roy for the best package they can get but the best package they can get from a team that Halladay will go to. Thus the Blue Jays have no bargaining power. And if you think the Blue Jays will just let him walk after the season, well thats just the silliest thing I’ve ever heard.

    The Dipsy

  121. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    The only way Halladay ever becomaes a Philly is if he hits the FA market after next season. Phils could go as high as 3/60 with Lee’s 9 and Moyers 7/8 coming off the books and Brown or Taylor replacing Werth’s 10 million. Other than that fo-get-about-it.

  122. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    enough of the halladay talk. we are NOT getting him on a 1 year rental. absolutely NOT! first, ruben wont give up the farm for one year. its dumb and its just not worth the hassle. ruben would only think about halladay if they could afford him over a 4 year period. second, halladay, at 34, can decide where he wants to go. he wants a contract extention with a different club; he doesnt want the one-year-rental stuff either. he wants a contract that will put him to the end of his prime, maybe his career–a 4-5 year deal

    just stop with the one year stuff….its just not going to happen that way

  123. Brooks

    November 24, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Jrollpatrol; your priority list is pretty much in line with mine – I too want to see Lee locked in as our #1. Beltre though, another story. You know he is coming off that way expensive 5 year $64 mil contract and the chances of signing him for 8 mil or under? Hardly!
    I say Atkins would be a perfect fit.
    Another point I do disagree – relief pitching. Rox are not going to resign Betincourt and dude, you cannot have too much pitching!
    Agreed we def need bench strength and a backup catcher – ah, how I long for the days of Greg Gross –

  124. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 2:13 pm


    Cliff Lee isn’t getting a contact-extension for the simple reason that, he doesn’t want one.

    He wants to become a Free Agent and secure his financial future…

    You would imagine that you could do that with say, $60 Million … but he’s thinking more like 5-6-7 years, $150+ Million

    And we sure ain’t the ones who can pay him that

  125. Manny

    November 24, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    In other news,

    Pujols just won the NL MVP. This is how our Phillies did:

    3. Ryan Howard
    8. Chase Utley
    17. Jayson Werth
    18. Shane Victorino

    Pretty good…

  126. Georgie

    November 24, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Brooks, “ah, how I long for the days of Greg Gross”. Yeah, wouldn’t that be sweet?

  127. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    According to MLbtrade… Andy Martino of the Inquirer believes the Phillies are the front runner for Juan Casto. They better not pay him more than Bruntlett.

  128. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    cc is making around 23 mil a year i think. i dont see cliff lee making quite that much. 20 mil, 5 years i think thats reasonable and i think the phils will offer him that. no team other than the yanks/sox are gonna be payin him for 6-7 years at around 150 mil…no way

    i cant tell if cliff is a guy who is in it for the money or not. its hard to tell if he likes it here. i would like to think a guy like howard would stick around forever, since he came thru our system and is a fan favorite (and hopefully the red sox get A-gonzalez so they and the yanks already have their 1stbasemen of the future). i know cliff loves the competition and he knows a deal here for the next 5 years could very well mean 5 more playoff appearances. this team needs a number one. and i really think we ll see some big numbers thrown at this guy by the phillies

  129. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    No way the Phils offer 5/100 to Lee. It’s not their philosophy. As well as the Phils are doing they can’t lock up that much money.

  130. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    the jays do still have bargaining power. lets just say for argument’s sake that roy halladay wants to play for either NYY, BOS, LAA, NYM, PHI, or LAD–6 of the more probable teams able to afford him in a multiyear deal. ok if the two division rivals of the AL east offer similar deals to what the NL teams can, where do you think he will go??? if halladay’s number 1 choice is the yanks, but the phils package is just as good as what the yankees have to offer, toronto will make the deal with philly. doc is only going to the yanks/rsox if they present a deal that will blow the other teams out of the water…and you know what….is very easy for either NYY or BOS to come up with a better package than happ/taylor. this is how the bidding for doc is going to push his value above and beyond 2 unproved guys. watch

  131. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I really don’t see it..

    The Phillies don’t like signing pitchers for more than 3 years.. especially at that type of money ..

    If they want to keep this core of everyday players together… it will cost them $15-20 M for a lot of those guys

    Utley, Howard, Werth.. Victorino and Rollins will cost at least $15 M combined..

    and if they don’t want to keep this core of everday players together.. there would be no need for CLIFF LEE on the mound, because he wouldn’t have a winning lineup to give him run support

    The MVP voting is a joke

    who the hell voted:

    Yunel Escobar 5th,
    Derek Lee 2nd,
    Todd Helton 3rd

    Andre Ethier got TWO 2nd place votes…

    Those guys should have their voting rights taken away

  132. Don M

    November 24, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Toronto should get the best deal for Toronot.. regardless of who they trade Halladay too

    They aren’t going to get the type of players that will win them the World Series in the next year or two ..

    and the RedSox or someone could easily get Halladay at the Trade Deadline next year, and decide that their own young pitchers (Lester, Buchulz) will be good enough that they dont want to pay someone $20+ Million. .

    Toronto needs to just get the best possible players for THEIR organization, and not worry about anything besides that.

  133. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    From MLBTR: Apparently the Phillies are close to a deal with Juan Castro….OK, well I guess thats the utility INF. he hit much better than Bruntlett last year….

  134. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    correction–**unproven** guys. dipsy, u are looking at it backwards, as if he is a free agent already. if the blue jays dont like the offers they recieve, then they will hold him till trade deadline this year. whether doc is happy or not, the jays still have control of him for one more year. it baffles me that u think happ/taylor can get it done–when toronto really wants a deal centered around drabek/brown and someone else…

  135. The Dipsy

    November 24, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    What makes you guys think that Toronto would trade Halladay inside their own division?

    The Dipsy

  136. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    They openly said that they would trade him inside their division weeks and weeks ago when the speculation began.

  137. PSUjoe

    November 24, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    If the Phils sign Castro it better be for under a million. Assum $1 million. That leaves 19 more according to Amaro.

  138. Geoff

    November 24, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Itll be for cheap. Hes better than Bruntlett anyway.

  139. bfo_33

    November 24, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    As much as I would hope for the opposite, the Phils will not be going for Halladay. It is not in their gameplan, and they typically don’t deviate from the gameplan.
    The longer the Jays hold onto Halladay, the more they will have to pay him. Maybe you’d get more for the Harley if you waited for late spring to sell it, but if you can’t afford the payments, you get rid of it regardless. Halladay will go cheap (in regards to prospects, esp if they can force a package including Wells) and before the season starts, he just isn’t going to the Phillies.
    Pujols deserved the MVP, and Ethier isn’t a bad #2. The Phillies have too much talent to call any of their players the MVP. Any one of their top 5 go down, they are still a playoff team. The same cannot be said for STL or LA. It doesn’t mean that guys didn’t have better years (I’m not even sure who the Phils MVP is, Utley, Howard, or Werth?).

  140. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    i cant tell if cliff likes it here or not. but i know he loves to compete, and that he can do for 5 more years if he signs a contract with philly. even though it goes against the organization’s pitcher planning, i do think they will offer him a 5 year deal. they dont like to go over 3 but with what this guy has shown you have to make an exception. i guarantee you one thing…management is definitely thinking this: ‘ok this guy played great for us…we know the importance of having a dependable number one guy, lets at least OFFER him 5/90 plus incentives/bonuses and see how much he likes it here.’….i wont guarantee lee will sign here but the offer has GOT to be there this winter

  141. jrollpatrol08

    November 24, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    ” Victorino will not be traded and to put him in the same company as Mayberry and taylor/brown is silly.”

    um if werth accepts a multiyear deal in philly then victorino will get moved. he had maybe a slightly above average season, and he could get more money somewhere else. the phils arent going to expend too much time/energy/money on keeping vic here when taylor and brown are going to be here as a cheaper alternative. i see this as the last season of ibanez, werth, victorino in OF. i think management wants to see werth, brown, taylor as the 2011 OF.

  142. karen

    November 24, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    I can afford the Phillies tickets but I have a season ticket for Lehigh Valley so I go there and it is definately much closer for me and its not as crowded as Philly. Granted, it is not the big league team but there are future stars down there and rehab appearances do happen…..pedro martinez, victorino, raul, ruiz, happ was there in 08, taylor was down there at the end of 09….its fun.

  143. psujoe

    November 24, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    McDonald who is a great fielding SS and a good fielding 3b is going to sign with the BJ’s for 1.5 mil. Utility guys are getting expensive. I wouldn’t pay that much for a pure defensive IF backup.

  144. Don M

    November 25, 2009 at 9:56 am

    to prove that Happ + Taylor would not be enough:

    “The Red Sox are making a push to obtain Toronto ace Roy Halladay before the start of baseball’s winter meetings Dec. 7, according to industry sources. But the Blue Jays reportedly want top prospect Casey Kelly along with young starter Clay Buchholz. The Sox could retreat from the deal if the Blue Jays continue to demand Kelly. The 20-year-old was their first pick in the 2006 draft and signed for $3 million.”

    Boston Globe

  145. Georgie

    November 25, 2009 at 10:12 am

    So there you go, that pretty much says it all, doesn’t it? Roy’s not coming here for Happ and Taylor, end of story.

  146. Don M

    November 25, 2009 at 10:26 am

    that was never going to be enough.. as long as the Yankees are willing to part with Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain (I actually like Hughes a LOT more of those two)

    and the RedSox might be willing to deal Clay Buchulz..

    The Phillies’ JA HAPP is not in the same category as those guys, despite his sucess so far at the Major League level.. maybe replacin Michael Taylor in that deal with ANTHONY GOSE would help make something work, but I really can’t see that being either..

    Buster Olney points out two things:

    “One executive tells Olney that the Blue Jays’ chances of moving Roy Halladay are no better than 50/50. Another source suggests that the Jays could have had three top prospects for Halladay last summer, whereas now they could probably only land one star prospect and a second with some major-league potential. ”

    They aren’t going to give him away for no reason..

  147. Geoff

    November 25, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Hopefully that will put the issue to rest….this has become madness. They will not be quiet this offseason, but they will not spend foolishly either. They got to this level by not spending folishly.

  148. Geoff

    November 25, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Fortunatley, the more I read about the Tigers and Edwin Jackson the more I get scared away from him. WHY are they trying to just…get rid of him? Something has to be wrong there…

  149. Don M

    November 25, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    More to end the notion that HAPP + TAYLOR would be anywhere near enough..

    Peter Abraham – BOSTON GLOBE… from MLBTR

    “that he feels Halladay would be worth the price for the Red Sox (the price, presumably, being Buchholz, Casey Kelly, and another prospect or two).”

    Regardless of his situation, he’s still Roy Halladay.. and the Blue Jays will once again let teams outbid each other to get him … I’ve thought all along that the RedSox are the ones that need him most

    Beckett and Lester.. Bucholz is just as unproven as HAPP, but more highly regarded. Dice-K and Wakefield are coming off injury, so they definitely NEED pitching

  150. j reed

    November 25, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    the annoying thing is that if Halladay goes to either the Sox or Yankees, either team is a shoe in for a WS …. if we are still the class of the NL and make it back to the WS, we are looking at another loss. Halladay Beckett Lester would be downright brutal and with the Yankees line-up C.C. and Halladay would be all you’d really need. It be interesting if the Yankees landed him how the league would react…there’d be almost no reason for any other team to play the season…Selig might see this little baseball renaissance come to a quick end. It’d be hard to stay interested knowing that you’d have to face a team with that much firepower….a team would just have to be incredibly hot to overcome such odds. I’d say if we have the chance let’s get him esp. since we still don’t know when Hamels will return to his true talent level.

  151. Geoff

    November 25, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    MLBTR: Phillies Sign DeWayne Wise & Wilson Valdez (both utilitymen) to minor league contracts.

    They have just covered themselves incase Juan Castro doesnt work out or another bench hole opens up.

  152. Geoff

    November 25, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Now that they have multiple options for the 25th man…they will likely try to sign a big need leading up to the winter meetings.

    I think they will address 3B first, then sign the best reliever they can afford & the best starter they can afford, then wait to bring in a cheapo list backup catcher.

  153. j reed

    November 25, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    is torrealba still available or is he asking too much?

  154. Marc Riggsbee

    February 10, 2010 at 1:24 pm

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    Follow me on Twitter

  155. Mitch Mahanna

    April 21, 2010 at 8:38 am

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