Odds and Ends: Rodney, Halladay – Phillies Nation

Odds and Ends: Rodney, Halladay

– Fernando Rodney is close to being scooped up by the Los Angeles Angels, according to the Detroit Free Press.  The Phillies, however, are reportedly also in on the former Tiger closer.  Can’t say I’m overly thrilled about this possibility, although there isn’t much out there in terms of back-end help. Rodney wants to close and while he does have good stuff, can be wild at times.  His 4.40 ERA and 1.47 WHIP back up that notion, so for those pining for the 32-year old righty, perhaps you should temper expectations.  While the bullpen is the most pressing issue at the moment, the Phillies should look elsewhere – and it appears they may have to if the Angels nab him.  If he gets more than the two-year, $12 million Mike Gonzalez got from Baltimore, the Phillies should jump ship immediately.

-In today’s Toronto Sun, Roy Halladay showed Toronto just how classy he is. Doc took out a full-page advertisement thanking Blue Jays fans for his time north of the border.  Great show of love by Halladay toward his old town. You can tell the guy really gets it and enjoyed what that city gave him for so long.  He won a Cy Young award there, made a lot of money, but did not win.  Halladay will finally get that opportunity here and we couldn’t be more enthused to see him wear that number 34 with pride.

Javier Vazquez is now a Yankee. The Braves traded the starting pitcher to the AL East for Melky Cabrera.  Vazquez has 12 career wins against the Phillies, the most against any team in the majors, so it will be good to see him go.  He faced the Phillies three times in ’09, going 2-1 with a 3.00 ERA.  He now joins the Yankees as their number three or four starter, and I have to say, it was a very strong move by the Yanks.  He solidifies an already very good rotation, he was had on the cheap, plus will provide a ton of innings for the champs.  Brian Cashman is doing a very solid job this offseason.

Jason Marquis is now a Nat.  He joined the Washington Nationals, signing a two-year, $15 million contract to join the worst team in baseball.  It was reported that the Phillies had interest in the 31-year old, another iffy proposition.  Marquis has been consistently average throughout his career, as is evident by his 4.48 ERA.  The Phillies, sadly, are already paying for mediocrity with a large sum going to Jamie Moyer this year.  This move would have been an awful idea.  Pay a number five starter $7.5 million on average?  Marquis’ career stats look very Adam Eaton-like, so it was a wise move letting the Nats take on that hefty sum for lack of upside.

Brandon Morrow is now a Blue Jay.  Toronto shipped Brandon League and a prospect to Seattle for the 25-year old righty.  Tell me why the Phillies couldn’t receive Morrow in the Cliff Lee trade?  He has just under 200 career innings under his belt and sports a 3.93 ERA.  Morrow mostly threw out of the bullpen in 2009, but can start and has done well in limited action.  He is 4-3 lifetime with a 4.42 ERA as a SP.  He has the tools to be a very good closer for many years, or even a decent mid-line starter.  Again, this guy couldn’t have been thrown in for a Cy Young winner?

(UPDATE: Wed., 8:56 am): The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting that the Phillies are talking with Mike McDougal, former White Sox, Royal, and National.  The lanky righty saved 20 games a year ago and has closed before in KC, but has bounced around the league while posting inconsistent numbers over the life of his nine-year career.  Is he an upgrade over Condrey?



  1. Amanda Orr

    December 22, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Vazquez trade: The Phillies biggest competition in the NL East (unless the Mets make a FA splash), just got weaker! Melky’s decent (average at best), but an outfielder is easier to come by than a solid starting pitcher.

    Totally agree on Morrow: Why couldn’t the Phils get him in the Lee deal, a reliver, something the team actually needs? Even if it wasn’t Seattle, plenty of teams would have listened on a Lee offer, so the Phils could have gotten more in return.

    Speaking of the Lee trade, if the Phillies get Rodney, I won’t be happy. Some of that money could have belonged to Lee.

  2. The Dipsy

    December 22, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    A –

    If some of that money goes to Rodney, RAJ will have trouble looking us in the face.

    The Dipsy

  3. psujoe

    December 22, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    I agree that it would’ve been nice to have Morrow “thrown in”. Not sure I’d have him replace one of the other 3 though. I was told that this is a make or break year for him for what that’s worth.

    $12 million for Rodney is too much. I hope the Angels go higher.

  4. Griffin

    December 22, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Rodney is bone. Let the Angels have him.

    Isn’t Phillipe Aumont a younger and less proven version of Morrow? So why does a team in “win now” mode like the Phils trade for a reliever who can’t help now? And how do the Braves get more for Javy Vazquez than the Phillies get for Cliff Lee?

  5. Griffin

    December 22, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Buster Olney is reporting the Phils offered Rodney 2 years $12 million. OUCH.

    Why didn’t the Phils go after the vastly superior Mike Gonzalez who signed for the same price?

  6. Scott

    December 22, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Because Mike Gonzalez was a type A and if we get Rodney we will have two very wild pitchers him and Romero. I think there are better option at a lower price.

  7. George

    December 22, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    Obviously, the Phils were looking for prospects to retool the farm system in the Lee trade. They weren’t looking for a reliever who spent quite a bit of @009 in the minors, and they’re not looking for anyone expensive, either. Rodney would only be considered if he’s cheap.

    The Braves got more–but not very much more, given Cabrera’s talent–because they needed a left fielder and the Yanks had one. The Yanks, in turn, needed a pitcher. It was a good match up. The Phils needed prospects, and that’s what they got. All of them could prove more valuable than Cabrera and whatever else the Braves got, but we won’t know right away. Remember, teams don’t always have what you might want, so you have to find some team that does, which might mean settling for something a little less than what FANS perceive as the best available.

  8. George

    December 22, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    @009 should read 2009.

  9. Pat Gallen

    December 22, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    To me, bullpens are just so iffy, so does it really matter if a guy like Rodney with a 4.40 era is in there over a guy trying to prove himself in the major leagues? $6 million for a guy who gives up hits will always be given more leeway than a guy like Bastardo or Escalona because they are supposedly more “refined”.

    I say go after cheaper guys. Year to year, you never know who will surprise out of the bullpen. Did the Phillies think Clay Condrey would amount to anything 4 years ago when the got him from SD? Probably not, he was just a stopgap for injuries. Stay away from Rodney is my thinking.

  10. Jesus

    December 22, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Doesn’t Morrow have quite a few arm injuries already on his resume? I think I remember at least 3 arm injuries in the past 2 years for him. I think with the Phils scouts’ history with the M’s they may have been scared of his injury history. Just a guess.

  11. Just Crushed

    December 22, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    Just anyone smell the Toronto-Seattle, Seattle-Phillies, Phillies-Toronto stink going on around here. Gillick is involved in all of this mess. Amaro is his little whipping boy. We can’t make a deal anymore without Toronto and Seattle and Gillick being involved?????

  12. Griffin

    December 22, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    The Phils had to give the Jays superior prospects for Halladay because they made the Jays kick in $6 million as well. If the Phils turn around and give that same 6 mil to some boner like Fernando frickin Rodney then I don’t know what to say.

  13. Griffin

    December 22, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    And for the record, I wouldn’t have signed Mike Gonzalez either. I would target low cost bullpen options and stay away from guys like Rodney and not pay Chad Durbin $2 mil when a minor leaguer can give you the same production at a lower cost.

  14. Greg V.

    December 22, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    Paying a stiff like Fernando Rodney $6 million and not paying Cliff Lee $9 million is retarded to me. I seriously am cheering for the Angels to outbid us here. Because this is an insult to the fans.

  15. Joel V.

    December 22, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Pat G. – Couldn’t agree with you more. What is the Phillies logic here? How is this guy with a 4.40 any better than the Escalonas, Mathiesons, etc.?
    The Phils always think that these “proven” veterans are a better bet but more often then not we end up digging out a good arm from the bargain bin (Scott Eyre, JC Romero, etc.) and the minors (Madson, Bastardo) to pitch for us in the pen and it works out.

  16. Rich

    December 22, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    I think you guys are crazy to say the Braves got more for Vasquez than we did for Lee, but that’s just my opinion. I think nothing of what they got.

  17. keng

    December 22, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    worried re the 4 starters after halliday – too many “ifs” for a team looking to go to the world series again – would be nice if there was just a little more reliablity – like a consistent 3.5 era guy – in that 3-4-5 spot – maybe replace moyer with a better 3 that pushes blanton to the 4 and happ to the 5 – than we’re looking better!! – HAPPY HOLIDAY!!!

  18. Jim

    December 22, 2009 at 11:04 pm

  19. WFC010

    December 22, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Honestly, I wouldn’t mind us signing Pedro again to a 1 year deal, if we can get him cheap enough. While i’m not sure i’d trust him in the post-season again, he would be a HUGE help in getting us to the playoff’s.

  20. Maniac

    December 23, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Pedro should definitley come back. I think the Phillies should sign Pedro, Carrasco, and Calero or Howry. Then, the bullpen would be very strong. This would mean that Kendrick/Moyer/Pedro would be possible as starters. I really liked Moyer out of the pen when he pitched for Pedro last year, so my guess is that Moyer would become the innings eater out of the pen and Pedro/Kendrick split starts since they wouldn’t want to give Pedro too many innings. I think Eyre should also be resigned and that group would be very nice. If they don’t think Kendrick can start, then go after a 5th starter who can also relieve, someone with veolcity.

  21. Brooks

    December 23, 2009 at 4:49 am

    We grow attached to our players who see us through difficult times. When Rowand left the Phils who were on a fast track for the World Series, it baffled most of us as we favor those who sweat, break bones and appear genuine in their efforts to win.
    So when I heard on the news that the Muts were considering putting Pedro back on their staff, I don’t know, I felt violated a bit. Although I was very reluctant with his signing, his efforts during the season and his first couple of appearances in the Post Season sucked me into Pedromania if not just for the moment. Now, he is considering crossing the line and going back to the cesspool of terrific individual talent that will never taste the sweet fall classic? Pedro, if you want to play for the Me-Me Muts, adios, thanks for the 1 year memory.
    Onto Vasquez – last year was his best year in terms of ERA – he will be 34 come the 2010 season and frankly, I don’t think the Yanks will get much out of him. Not a big deal.

  22. George

    December 23, 2009 at 7:48 am

    Morrow would have been a really bad choice given his injury history. I’d rather have the prospects. I’m not sold on Rodney, but given his ratio of saves to blown saves last year, I wouldn’t totally write him off, either. $6 million does seem too high, though.

    Pedro is asking about $7 million from the Mets, so he would cost the Phils more. People complain about Moyer being overpaid as fifth starter, but that’s what Pedro Martinez would be.

    The Phils need that one bullpen piece (someone who could close just in case, but wouldn’t mind a lesser role) way, way before they need to be thinking about a starter. They also need to stop playing stupid games with Scott Eyre. A minor league contract is no offer; it’s a slap in the face.

  23. WFC010

    December 23, 2009 at 7:58 am

    $7 million is too much to pay for Pedro, but if the Phillies could talk his price down a little bit…

    Rodney MAY be worth a shot at the right price, but i’m not really that sold on him either.

  24. matt

    December 23, 2009 at 8:11 am

    The phillies are in a tough position now. No matter who else they get, they know the fans are going to say, “why didnt you spend that on Lee.” And there is no way they can spend 9 million and get anywhere close to the production that Lee would have got them. They have to be realizing what a mistake it was now. Should have kept Lee and filled the rest of the holes with available players or prospects in spring training. Also, with lee and Halladay, they wouldnt have to rely on the bullpen as much.

  25. psujoe

    December 23, 2009 at 8:41 am

    George, Morrow as a “throw in” with the other 3 is a no brainer. Morrow replacing one of the other 3 not so much.

    12 mil over 2 years is ridiculous for Rodney. Move on.

  26. Griffin

    December 23, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Phillipe Aumont hasn’t exactly been the model of consistent health either. There is a reason he is no longer a starting pitcher-he can’t handle the workload.

  27. Geoff

    December 23, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Rodney sucks for that money. Id offer him a 7th inning role and like 3M per year for 2 years. Stay away from that…

    Vazquez will not be that good this season, hes good every other season and hes TERRIBLE in big games. Pass, glad he will be there to get rocked in game 2 or 3 by the Phillies next WS.

    Marquis: The nationals need that kind of guy actually, thats huge for them. They need someone to mentor their young staff, to show Strasburg how to be a pro, etc. This signings actuallty is good for what they are looking to do…and it makes a lot of sense. Marquis has no place on a team like ours, but he will do a lot of good for a young pitching staff with no major league experience.

    I wanted Morrow too, and I was upset that he wasnt in the deal. Maybe there is a reason, lets see how his health holds up. Perhaps they feel that ramirez and Aumont have more upside.

    Aumont has a lot more potential I think. As a reliever, he projects as a top flight closer. As a starter, he projects as a number 2 or a minor ace. Its all up to how he holds up and what the Phillies do with him.

  28. sean

    December 23, 2009 at 10:42 am

    What about jose valverde? He hasn’t signed yet, right? He’s a proven closer who can’t seem to find a team yet. I know he wants to close, but he’s running out of teams. When he gets desperate the phils should swoop in and nab him. Mlbtraderumors predicted hed be a phillie anyway. Why haven’t we heard more about him?

  29. Geoff

    December 23, 2009 at 11:18 am

    If the Phillies can steal Jose Valverde for two years 14 M taht would be incredible. He has priced himself out of a job at the moment, he may fall to them. Dont hold your breath though.

    To answer earlier…I like the McDougal idea as an upgrade over Condrey to be used in 7th inning. They would still need to sign someone better though.

  30. PhillyGirlinMichigan

    December 23, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Rodney is way over-hyped and I’m thrilled he’s no longer in Detroit. The other former-Tiger, Durbin, is no worse than him and is a better bet for the $. (Much easier on the eyes, too..)

    Phils – please stay away from Rodney, let him go to LA.

  31. BigMiles

    December 23, 2009 at 11:51 am

    Honestly, Rodney and MacDougal are both Chad Durbin with more name recognition. I don’t care that they were both closers. MacDougal got cut by the White Sox (a real team) and closed for the Nationals (a minor league team that would take anyone).

    Lyon was the perfect fit but Ed Wade gave him like a five year deal and RAJ lost the guy he wanted. There just aren’t a lot of good options out there…RAJ has to find a way to convince Chan Ho that he would rather be in the pen with us than starting for like the Orioles or Pirates.

  32. BigMiles

    December 23, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Oh and Morrow is no longer a top of the line prospect. Anyone who thinks that we got shafted for not receiving him is sadly mistaken.

  33. Maniac

    December 23, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    nobody likes my idea ahahaha

  34. NJ

    December 23, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    The Jays apparently traded a top prospect plus a very attractive, very affordable middle reliever to get Morrow. I’m sure if he was on the Phils radar RAJ would have asked for him but remember as much as he might seem like a sexy name, he’s a guy who hasn’t stayed healthy and frankly he should be no more appealing than a Matt Capps who the Phils clearly aren’t high on.

    Whether you thought we could keep Lee or not this year is going to be very hard for the Phils to stay ‘on-top’ because you only go down and RAJ has to prepare to extend a window of opportunity no matter what we think wanting to win now at all costs. When it comes down to it, we traded an impending free agent in Cliff Lee for a decent package of 3 prospects all capable of making the majors, compared to other ‘stars’ nearing free agency it’s not a bad deal. There can be all the bitching and moaning about selling low but his value was only going to go down as the market slimmed towards the spring. RAJ got three guys who the front office expects to be major league capable players rather than waiting on a deal for one ‘stud’ prospect as you put it and a bag full of trash to go with it. The Halladay and Santana saga’s have shown us how hard it is to make a deal for a guy in Lee’s situation so it really isn’t a bad package at all.

    On subject it’s easy to want bullpen additions to be those fancy names with high K rates, spot saves and low ERA’s to all go in the back of the bullpen but it’s unnecessary and dangerous in the bullpen, hell we got Scott Eyre for nothing because Chicago made that mistake a couple of years back and overloaded their pen who in some cases performance suffered riding the bench without defined roles.

    Rodney is a perfect addition for the Phils pen right now if he comes in at moderate price. Lidge in the stretch or with men on base full is worrying but he is the closer and you’d expect will be healthy, Madson is a fantastic set-up man and what the Phils need is to slot in another guy if not another who’s already with the organisation who can pitch between those middle to late innings and not fall into cold streaks, Rodney fits the bill. Another ‘Durbin-type’ would be great not a negative, effective multiple innings middle relievers are the most underrated players in baseball and allow the back-end guys to pitch in their comfort zones, we should be so lucky to be able to add another guy like that.

    I don’t know if the Phils are into him but (at a friendly salary) Contreras is a really interesting name as swingman/mutli-purpose reliever.

    The same thing goes for the major league roster and the prospects here, you can want and covet all the stars and bluechippers you want but when you have a core of stars in place you want guys who can just play ball and do what they do well.

    And Valverde… Are you serious? Whats he gonna do… Sign autographs? Would be a terrible move and in every way fits the phrase cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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