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Phils Add a Reliever?

According to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com, the Phillies have signed a relief pitcher, yet, he isn’t sure who it is yet.  There are a slew of names out there that have been linked to the Phils in recent weeks, the latest being Danys Baez and Mike MacDougal.

Fernando Rodney signed with the Los Angeles Angels so (thankfully) it isn’t him, which leaves the usual suspects: Baez, Capps, Dotel, Valverde, MacDougal, among others.

I’d still like to see Matt Capps as I think his career numbers prove that last season was a fluke.  Although, with the pressures of Philadelphia, it’s tough to say how players will respond to a winning climate.  Baez, too, would be a decent signing, as long as it is for far less than Rodney’s asking price of somewhere around $5.5 million per.

73 Comments

73 Comments

  1. Manny

    December 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    I also hope it’s Capps or Baez…

  2. Geoff

    December 23, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Id take MacDougal to replace Condrey, but for the “backup closer” type, you have to go a bit better. You gotta go Baez, Dotel, or Valverde. Capps is going to Washington or the Cubs, so scratch him off.

    Valverde may sitll be holding out for a better deal, if so, scratch him off. The Pirates offered Dotel their closer job, so lets say he takes it…scratch him off.

    So, its probably Baez or MacDougal.

  3. doug

    December 23, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Hearing it is smoltz.

  4. shawn qwartz

    December 23, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Adam Eaton is a name that comes to mind. He wants to repent for stealing all that money from the Phils

  5. Joel V

    December 23, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Baez made $5.5 million with the Orioles last season. Not sure if you guys are going to be happy with this signing if you weren’t alright with signing Fernando Rodney to a 2 yr 12 million dollar deal…

  6. shawn qwartz

    December 23, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    What is the big secret? Or is it simply not true.

  7. NEPA

    December 23, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    None of these guys are sure things.Its a pretty sad bunch.
    Bottom line -You have to use quality to get quality .
    Thats why the Cliff Lee deal is where we should have solved this relieiver problem,and I dont want to hear that I should be satisfied with whatever the Phils front office gives us and be happy.

  8. mikemike

    December 23, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    thought its was mc dougal they were after

  9. Just Crushed

    December 23, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Cliff Lee for 9 million sounds like a lot better deal now doesn’t it, Ruben?

    He hung his career on this idiotic trade.

    This team is no better than last year and our payroll is higher…nice job.

  10. Geoff

    December 23, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Dude, lay off the Lee thing – spoiled.

    We still dont know the details yet….it is WELL known Lee’s agent wanted a 5-6 year deal for Sabathia type money..he wasnt gonna get that here…AND if he wanted to stay here so badly why havent we heard about what the counter offer was? is he wanted to stay so bad hed have come off his lengthy and steep contract demands…

  11. Marc H

    December 23, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    MacDougal has the potential to be a late inning nightmare, especially with his control problems. The Phillies are much better off with Baez.

    My humble opinion, anyway.

  12. psujoe

    December 23, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Baez or Dotel for around 3 mill one year would be Ok by me.

  13. Joel V.

    December 23, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    NEPA- Totally agree with you. None of the free agents available make me jump for joy. It seems as though we have a better chance just giving the Matheisons, Bastardo’s, etc a try over these other bozo’s.

  14. mikemike

    December 23, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    if they keep lee between him and halladay they would have a t least 16 complete games or more.

  15. rob5000

    December 23, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    What a sad bunch of relievers on the market. You’re right, we may as well try to groom some guys in our system and save the money (since it’s such a damn issue apparently)

  16. Dylan

    December 23, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    John Smoltz….

  17. psujoe

    December 23, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Phils need at least one righty arm. Mathiason, Bestardo, Romero.. are fine as lefties.

  18. WFC010

    December 23, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Smoltz is well past his prime, but he’s STILL probably the best option out there for the Phillies. He could be a solid reliever and/or backup closer, and most of the other options are either terrible, claimed by other teams already, or out of our price range.

  19. joedad

    December 23, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    There were no great relievers out there to begin with. If Park isn;t available, Baez would be a decent signing.

    One thing for sure, Santa is reporting a record amount of pouting this Christmas season from crybaby Phillies fans.

  20. Joel V.

    December 23, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Mathieson is a righty….

  21. NJ

    December 23, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    It’s not about the names, it’s about the roles of the guys in a bullpen. Doesn’t matter who we sign so much as what he’s there to do.

    And we really need to get over this Cliff Lee thing…

  22. The Little Guy

    December 23, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Pretty postive Mathieson is a RH pitcher

  23. Buster Heyman

    December 23, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Breaking news! My sources tell me the “mystery pitcher” is the all time leader in saves in red pinstripes, Jose Mesa! You heard it here first!

  24. Griffin

    December 23, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Jose Mesa and his blue glove. Truly awesome. The thing I remember most about ol’ Joe Table is that he was mad at Omar Vizquel when Vizquel mention in his autobiography that Mesa choked in Game 7 of the World Series. Every time Mesa faced Vizquel after that, he hit him. Every time. Truly awesome that he carried that grudge 10 years later.

    Also, Mesa was better than Jeff Brantley. That dude was a scrote.

  25. Griffin

    December 23, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Zolecki thinks it’s Baez.

  26. mikemike

    December 23, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    nj so we know it was a bad move a salary dump, and just forget it ,i cant get over montgomery statement we are in the red. I hear it and just get madder.

  27. mikemike

    December 23, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    what is a scrote??????????????/

  28. The Tom

    December 23, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Its going to be Baez i feel. He isnt the best but servicible could be much worse.

  29. shag beta sigma delta

    December 23, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    MLB.com is saying it is Danys Baez, he pitched for Charlie with the Indians. Say the deal is pending a physical so the name will not be released until he passes. 4.04 career ERA hope they dont pay him more than 1 year 2-3 million with incentives and a team option for 2011

  30. NJ

    December 23, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    mikemike- it wasn’t a salary dump, a salary dump would have been non-tendering Joe Blanton or dealing Jayson Werth or some kind of deal/s that would save significant money. I think Montgomery just tried to appease the fans and it was stupid mis-reading the Philly fans, the operating budget or whatever internal financial set-up is probably in the red but we know the gross income club pulls in, problem is its two different languages which is why the statement was stupid.

    The only reason for the Lee trade was to secure a deal that helps the overall development of the ballclub, letting Lee walk would not have guaranteed two good prospects let alone two as good as two of the acquired prospects. On the other side of it it’s a better deal that we would likely have got holding on to him with the intention of dealing him and is a better deal than the Twins got for Santana for example. There’s a reason RAJ made the deal, we’re just peed off right now and are yet to see it, that’s how I feel about it or I would be just as peed as you.

    I’ve got to admit I am getting tired and envious of some other clubs seeing the Phils have to rely on free agency or retain free agents at good market price to sure up the bullpen each year. The system is full of arms and we really need to start getting guys like Matheison and Zagurski (if healthy) and Bastardo, Savery, Carpenter, Naylor and the list goes on into this bullpen and not for just a sink or swin audition. In the meantime we need to make smart moves like the Durbin, Park, Romero (waiver-claim), Eyre moves and continually look for guys so we don’t have to lean on the arms so heavily, for example Durbin needs a reduced role, he’s not trash but the guy we need is a guy who can step in and fill Durbin’s shoes and allow him to get healthy and back to form. I don’t care who it I just want an un-sexy name who’s gonna get the job done, not on the stats sheets but in the game. I don’t want a Valverde just cause we don’t trust Lidge.

    Frankly I don’t care how bad our closer is because I don’t think he be allowed to blow double-digit saves again, I want a no frills lock-down middle-to back end relief crew who insulate the closer from having to pitch unnecessary tough innings. Balfour, Moylan, Howell, the relivers KC traded to Boston and Florida, these unknowns are out there and those are where the FO and RAJ need to raise their game.

  31. NJ

    December 23, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Baez isn’t the worst name, he’s very versitile and experienced but he better come cheap because the market is going to be littered with guys who aren’t getting Lyon money if we wait it out not to dissimilar from Baez.

  32. Dan S

    December 23, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Phillies website says baez

  33. Maniac

    December 23, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    I don’t know too much about Baez, but I really don’t like this signing when there are clearly better options in Howry, Carrasco, Calero, and Capps. How about bringing Pedro back for another year and send Moyer to the bullpen. He was impressive out of the pen when I saw him last season. Baez would be my 8th or 9th choice right now.

  34. Jimmy Jam

    December 23, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    I would rather we wait it out and let the market settle some more. Since we are so concerned with our budget all the sudden why not wait it out and go for bargains. Resign Park if possible and wait it out. Last year was prime when we had depth aplenty when we signed Majewski, Chacin and Lopez in aaa.

  35. Grrrumpy Miner

    December 23, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    My Amazins are doing the best they can….I am pleased that we have R.A. Dickey.Now the Amazins are out to hunt bear! lol what drek.

  36. George

    December 23, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    Howry’s career numbers are pretty similar to Baez’s, and Capps would be too expensive. Calero, if I remember correctly, has had some attitude problems in the past. Moyer would only be available every few days for long relief, and isn’t much of a bullpen option due to a need for long warmup periods.

    Even if a reliever such as Baez is signed, that still leaves spots for a couple of those Bastardo/Mathieson/Escalona types.

    I’d be fine with Baez–he’s had some closing experience. I think Smoltz is a giant question mark, and if signed at all, should be on a minor league/spring training invitation contract. I’d bring back Eyre and his recent elbow clean out before I’d rely on Smoltz and his recent RedSox/Cards “comeback.”

  37. WFC010

    December 24, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Jose Mesa? You have to be kidding…right?

    As far as I know he retired after 2007, and how the heck would we be able to count on a dude who doesn’t seem to have pitched in a long time?

  38. Brian of CO

    December 24, 2009 at 2:29 am

    I agree with Geoff, lets just lay off the Lee junk. It was a HORRIBLE move, now lets just move on, and look forward to another season. But to say this “This team is no better than last year”…Its impossible to say that now, but really, the team set to start the season is better than the team which started in ’09, just by the starting pitching. If Princess returns to his ’08 form and stays that way, and Ledge (Lidge) returns to a form somewhere between ’08 and ’09, the team is better then 09. I am still concerned about Hamels and Lidge though honestly. Lets just hope they find their mojo again. as for the “relief pitcher”…I completely agree with George, Smoltz is a question mark. For those of you who cant stand Moyer and his 5+ ERA, you should really enjoy Smoltz and 7+ ERA. True, Smoltz is a future HOFer and has had a better career then Moyer, HOWEVER, that was in the past, Smoltz is just to much of a question, and question marks are NOT what the Bullpen or pitching staff needs in general. The Phillies have enough question marks in the pitching staff (Hamels and how he will be, 08 or 09 form; #5 starter; Lidge/closer just to name a few.)

  39. Jeff of Nova

    December 24, 2009 at 7:22 am

    Everyone is stuck on the Lee of the postseason.

    He was unbelievable in the postseason, but was no where near consistent last year. He came and showed he can dominant with his first 7 or so starts then was very pedestrian entering the playoffs.

    Halladay has been that stud for a decade!

    As far as his contract demands, it is easy to paint Lee as the innocent why did you trade me guy, but if the Philles felt that they could get Lee for about or a little less than they got Halladay they would have kept and not pulled the deal for Halladay. I don’t blame Lee for wanting money nor should anyone, you make what you can when you can. Timing is everything. He will do fine in Seattle not sure he will be as good as Halladay.

    Remember Hamels was unbelievable in the post season and was very pedestrian last year. Age or not Lee does not have a lot of Major League seasons under his belt. He had a phenom year a couple of good years and a great post season.

    Let’s move forward this team better right now! I am excited for Spring!

  40. Just Crushed

    December 24, 2009 at 7:53 am

    I seem to remember Chan Ho Park pitched really well last year…oh wait we have no money for him either….

  41. bob

    December 24, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Park also wants to (for whatever ridiculous reason) STILL be a starter.

  42. NickFromGermantown

    December 24, 2009 at 8:35 am

    The problem with Chan Ho Park is that he is talking about starting again. Does he not understand how good he was out of the bullpen? I think he has complicated that deal.

  43. rjb360

    December 24, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Enough complaining about Park’s desire to start. He is going to take any opportunity to start because they will always play his baseball games in South Korea if they know he is starting. They won’t play them if there’s only a chance he will pitch relief. Playing so that his countrymen can see him will always be top priority on Park’s list. He’s a celebrity out there.

  44. Geoff

    December 24, 2009 at 9:57 am

    If Park still wants to be a starter, then you move on…They are still talking with Eyre – and I think there may be a real chance he comes back but he wont sign until close to ST.

    Also, are we really going to complain about signing Danny Baez?

    Bob Howry is left-handed (I think), and he is not better than Scott Eyre, a healthy Romero, and has less upside than Bastardo: Pass.

    Matt Capps ALREADY signed with the Nationals, because they were on him from the get go and guaranteed him the closer’s role.

    DJ Carrasco is more suited for 6th ot 7th inning work on this team, he may have asked for too much – we dont know. For a 6th or 7th inning option I would rather have Mike MacDougal for cheap.

    Calero – really? Pass

    Baez can do 7th or 8th inning work and can close until Lidge comes back. He has closing experience and was good at him for a period of time. Im FINE with this signing. Dubee is actually better at working with relievers than starters I feel. He usually can assemble and coach up a good bullpen.

    Im almost rather listen to people STILL complain about Lee than to hear people complain about Baez…I mean, really? REALLY? He will fill a ROLE, which is fine.

    Did you really think that Valverde would come here on the cheap? It’d have been nice, but it wasnt gonna happen….

  45. Griffin

    December 24, 2009 at 10:24 am

    You know who would be a cheap 8th inning option? Cliff Lee

    Just kidding. I like the Baez move as long as it’s a 1-year, low cost signing.

  46. NEPA

    December 24, 2009 at 10:56 am

    NJ ,the statement you made about us replenishing the bullpen is right on.Can we count on those younger guys this year?
    And while I dont blame Ruben for the Lee thing in principal,I just think there had to be teams that had major leage ready arms for bullpen help…cheap..NOW.
    I think he gave Lee away ,and we could have recd more help for this year…thats all.
    I’m not crying ,I still think we are a better team this year.

  47. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 11:15 am

    So i guess they have learned their lesson about BPs that go thru a WS run. Is Dotel the closer from from KC. If so he”d work out real good. Can we ‘ford um. Wait I thought there wasn’t anymore money in the smudget.
    NEPA – blame the ownership … they Randolph and Mortimer Duked us

  48. Geoff

    December 24, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Dotal was with the White Sox last season. The current Royals closer is Joakim Soria, who will not be traded anywhere anytime soon. The Pirates offered Dotel their closer role and they are talking with Kevin Gregg as well.

    Baez is a nice signing. I predict they will also sign Mike Macdougal, and then the 3rd slot will be open competition, won by Antonio Bastardo. Who will be outstanding this season.

  49. Georgie

    December 24, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Do you realize how much less they would have to use the bullpen if they had Halladay AND Lee? That’s just another reason to keep Lee for another year, you’d have two starters who can almost always go 8 innings, maybe even several complete games. And don’t tell me to stop talking about it, I’m not ready to stop because it still ticks me off!

    Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee

  50. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Brain fart on Mathiason as a lefty. Sorry.

    Interesting that the Phils originally had Saunders coming in the deal, but swithed him out for Gillies. Is that a ood thing? I thought saunders wasa better prospect?

  51. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    ood=good

  52. Griffin

    December 24, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    Michael Saunders is the Mariners #1 prospect. Tyson Gillies is a future fourth OF at best. No way did the Phils take Gillies over Saunders.

  53. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Geoff – danka on dotel…i get them confused and actually don’t know anything about dotel, Soria is a decent closer if I remember correctly.

    Psujoe – I guess at that tier level physical attributes that can’t be made…6’7 tall pitcher or attributes that can be albeit sparingly improved upon like sprinting speed which Gillies posesses are what seperate you from the pack. I don’t know what saunders has going for him. I guessing Gillies is faster thatn saunders (I am assuming they both are CFers)

  54. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Griffin,

    According to Bob Elliot.

    Dec. 13

    Beeston calls Nadir Mohamed, Rogers Communications CEO, and Tony Viner, Rogers Media president, in the morning to tell them the cost of doing business, and moving Halladay to Philadelphia, will be $6 million.

    The Phils will get Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez from the M’s. Originally, Mike Saunders of Victoria, B.C., was in the deal over Gillies. A Phillies scout calls the speedy Gillies “the key to the (Seattle) portion” of the deal.

    The Phils suggest moving Aumont and Gillies — both Canadians — to the Jays, to keep Drabek. Anthopoulos likes both Seattle prospects, but prefers Drabek.

    The commissioner’s office grants a 72-hour window for Halladay and agent Greg Landry to work out a contract extension with Amaro.

    Halladay and Landry fly to Philadelphia.

    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bob_elliott/2009/12/24/12258766-sun.html

  55. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Well I guess I was way wrong there on Saunders but if that’s the case Lee was certainly worth him after we had set the ceiling with two top tiers for Halladay. At least 1 top tier and a 2nd tier I’d say esp since Lee and Roy had 1 year left on their contracts.

  56. Griffin

    December 24, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Oh my. If that’s true then that’s a disaster. Gillies has no power whatsoever. The more I read, the less confident in Amaro I am.

  57. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    j reed,

    The interesting thing is the Phils must like Gillies better than Taylor because I’m pertty sure the A’s would’ve traded Wallace in a heartbeat for Saunders. So essentially the Phils traded Taylor of Gillies.

  58. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Okay you guys figure out who this saunders is ? If he is indeed a #1 then I am going to belly flop naked into a pile of glass ornaments, jump into a tub filled with rubbing alcohol and hang myself with a strand of half -lit X Mas tree lights. 3 magic beans…..no way

  59. Griffin

    December 24, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    According to Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider on Tyson Gillies: “Gillies profiles best as a fourth outfielder who can pinch run and play good defense, and in his best years maybe serve as a stop-gap regular”

    On J.C. Ramirez: “If all goes well, Ramirez could break into the big leagues in 2011 with a chance to be a No. 2 or 3 starter.”

    On Phillipe Aumont: “If Aumont can become efficient and improve his curve ball, there’s no reason to think he can’t at least handle the eighth inning in the big leagues, based on his fastball and ground ball abilities alone.”

    Again, I hate to keep bringing up the Lee deal but the more I read about it, the worse it looks. Cliff Lee was traded for a 4th OF, a middle reliever and a guy who COULD become a #3 starter.

  60. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Saunders hit .310 with 13 Hrs in 248 ABs in AAA last year before being called up. He only hit .221 with no Hrs in 126 ABs but he just turned 23 in November. He’s listed at 6’4″ 210. He hit .273 away from SAFCO field. The last rankings I saw in April had him in the top 75.

  61. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    psu joe – let me think on that one but i would agree with you readily if we hadn’t announced all this “we mean business on the budget” nonsense in the beginning of the winter meetings. Meaning crying poor cost us the high ground in negotiating under a non cap system. Owners effectively neutered Amaro cause Lee’s value dropped once we were in the Halladay hunt. Everyone knew the owners would let us keep both.

  62. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    griffin – yeah 3 magic beans. Once amaro hand was forced I think we were lucky to get that. Man I just shot my out with my new Red Ryder Roy Halladay BB Gun…..Fudge. Still i love my Halladay though. No complaints there but elsewhere i’m getting all “kill my landlord, kill my landlord…break in house , break his neck got no reason ..what the the Heck…”

  63. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    that’s “everyone knew the owners wouldn’t let us…” DOH! in the first post.

  64. Griffin

    December 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    yeah, I’m trying to focus on Halladay but it’s hard to make excuses for the terrible Lee trade. I’ll get over it, but right now it still burns.

    Oh well, Merry Christmas everyone.

  65. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    We understood you jr.

    I just think the deal as it was originally tweeted was probably better for the Phils.

    Drabek and D’Armond to Jays for Halladay.
    Aumont and Ramirez to Phill for Lee with Saunders to the Jays.

    Taylor > Gillies or Saunders > Gillies.

    but I don’t paid to evaluate these guys though

  66. psujoe

    December 24, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Merry Christmas to all as well.

  67. Geoff

    December 24, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Well, on the bright side, if they both reach their projections youll get two good pitchers out of the deal. Aumont would be a late inning reliever when he arrives, and JC Ramirez will be a 2/3 starter, which isnt too shabby since he will be young and cheap!

  68. j reed

    December 24, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    yeah, i’m with you Griffin esp. when I practically wrote a discretation on Halladay back in ’09. Still pretty stunned by Halladay, but not so much not to smell something rotten in Denmark. I see your logic psu joe but still think Lee could have gotten us more . Merry XMAS and remember all the Phillies stuff we’re getting tommorrow multipled by everyone in the Philly area. That’d cover the tab for Lee . Pitch forks and molotav cocktails at dawn. Just a thought to keep yous warm as we have all winter to enjoy the Dan Carcillo Show in place of our beloved toothless canadiens who locked themselves in the penalty box.

  69. Will

    December 24, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Capps signed with Washington…3.5 mil for 1 year

  70. Manny

    December 24, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee Cliff Lee

    we traded you for a bag of peanuts…

  71. WFC010

    December 24, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Cliff Lee Cliff Lee oh how we miss ye

    RAJ and Monty decided they’d rather have a Halladay party, and you weren’t invited.

    Blah blah blah blah

    Let’s just hope everything works out okay, and also I am pretty sure that the prospects will turn into some legit players, so nobody fret too much.

  72. Joel V

    December 24, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    NJ- Amen brother. Let’s face it. These free agent relievers are free agents for a reason….They aren’t very good! All the good ones are snapped up in at the beginning of free agency. You have to trade for a good one or develop some relievers.

  73. Brian Sr. of CO

    December 26, 2009 at 7:12 am

    I find it funny how some people BASHED RAJ when he passed on Halladay the first time for not getting one of the top 3 pitchers in the league, and “settling for Lee who usually is not very good in the second half of the season” (not my words). Lee DOMINATES in the post season, and RAJ decides to give up on the top 5 to top 10 pitcher in Lee for Halladay (top 3), and still RAJ is a moron. Sure would be nice to have both, but its about time to give it up. Lets just hope Princess can pitch like a #2 starter this season, rather then the inconsitent 4 or 5 starter he was pitching like last season. If he can work out his VERY FRAGILE mental state, and pitch like a pro, and a #2, this team can be more lethal than 09.

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