UPDATE: Polanco Deal Done – Phillies Nation

UPDATE: Polanco Deal Done

Originally posted Dec. 2, 2009 at 11:38 pm.

Over the past few hours, things may have gotten rather hot and heavy with Placido Polanco and the Phillies.  ESPN’s Jayson Stark, along with Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports, both say that the Phils may be turning their attention to Polanco on a two-year deal worth between $10-12 million.

Polanco has played mostly second base during his career, but apparently is willing to move to the other side of the diamond to play in Philadelphia once again.

UPDATE (10:25 am): In the last 15 minutes or so, Jon Heyman of SI has tweeted that a deal should be finalized today with Polanco.  The numbers: three-years, $18 million.  Polanco would bat second and Victorino would move to a run producing spot in the order.

UPDATE (10:51 am): Here is what ESPN’s Keith Law wrote about the possible signing of Polanco:

“Ruben Amaro’s fetish as a GM seems to be giving three-year contracts to hitters in decline; Raul Ibanez’ deal isn’t looking so hot after his second-half swoon, and now he’s about to give Placido Polanco three years as well. Polanco’s defense at second is already diminishing as his body slows down, but the Phillies are going to ask him to move to a position where quickness is more important than pure range. His bat is also in decline and he’s moving to a position with a higher offensive standard, although the guy he’s replacing was no great shakes with the stick himself. Six million a year isn’t much for a player who’ll probably be worth around two wins over replacement, but by the midpoint of this deal it could look very bad for the Phillies.”

UPDATE (2:00 pm): It’s official. The Phillies and Polanco agree to a three-year, $18 million deal.



  1. Greg V.

    December 3, 2009 at 12:06 am

    I was among those that didn’t want him traded in the first place. I’d be glad to have him back.

  2. Brendan

    December 3, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Bring him in. Id think hed fit in nicely. He shouldve been playing 3B the past 6 years. Rarely strikes out, plays hurt, great OBP, good with teammates, not coming off injury, versatile….


  3. Brooks

    December 3, 2009 at 4:59 am

    I know I said Ruben would surprise us but I was hoping not in a negative way. This is a downgrade from Feliz if he does sign Polanco.
    Hopefully, if Placido signs, Ruben will still keep his options open for a LEGIT 3rd baseman with some pop..

  4. jrollpatrol08

    December 3, 2009 at 6:30 am

    ehh im on the fence.

    brendan u listed a bunch of great qualities. i agree with all of em. but he is on the decline offensively if you look at the numbers. if the phils sign him, they will have missed his prime on both ends…too early and too late. i think detroit got the best of him in polancos early 30s.

    eventually they gotta get a guy that can man the position for a couple years. polanco i dont really see as that guy, and not necessarily an overall upgrade to feliz. i see beltre as this fit, even though he will be more expensive than polanco, beltre is younger and has more potential to put up offensive numbers over the next few years.

    either one could fit, but polanco is much more short term. i d rather have the phils lock up beltre this offseason…because there isnt gonna be much money around next offseason with expiring contracts of werth + whatever they offer lee if he accepts…get beltre now

  5. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 6:32 am

    It’s official now…the Phillies are heading backwards. Polanco has played third less than 50 games over the past seven seasons, and suddenly he’s the answer at thirdbase for the defending NL champions? We’re supposed to get excited about Polanco, Schneider and Castro? It’s been a bad offseason for Amaro so far.

  6. bfo_33

    December 3, 2009 at 6:56 am

    I see this as a short term fix – definite upgrade offensively, minor downgrade defensively. Now it is time to look for the 3rd baeman of the future. The big question – where does Charlie put PP in the order? I don’t think Vic’s strong point is situational hitting, but will Charlie be willing to shake things up? I see the line-up as:
    – Rollins
    – Polanco
    – Utley
    – Howard
    – Werth
    – Ibanez
    – Vic
    – Ruiz/Schneider
    – Pitcher
    Potential to score 900 runs, defense still solid. Also see Dobbs with more starts at 3rd (unless we are going after Derosa also, but think that would be too much $$) – would bat Dobbs 7th, Vic back to #2. See Polanco with some time at 2nd and short also.
    We can’t have an all star at every position, so far I think Ruben has done a solid job of filling holes while staying within budget. I really don’t think the 3rd baseman or back-up catcher is going to be a major factor in whether the Phils make the playoffs, but could influence the amount of rest the middle gets during the season. Assuming we sign Polanco, both moves have been upgrades. Put any available money into a right handed starter – can’t throw 4 lefties out there. Then grab cheap bodies to supplement the pen, see which ones pan out.

  7. George

    December 3, 2009 at 7:33 am

    Unlike some, I’m very impressed with Amaro so far. He’s signed a big improvement to back up Ruiz, gotten a budget replacement–also something of an upgrade–for Bruntlett, and now is trying to upgrade the Phil’s situational hitting, something the team has been very deficient at the past three years.

    I see Polanco as being better for the team than Beltre. He may not get the home runs, but he’ll consistently move runners, and he can spell Utley sometimes at second–he’s won two gold gloves there–which Beltre cannot. He would also give the Phils greater lineup flexibility.

    I, for one, was very frustrated with the Phils’ offense this year. They could sometimes hit the ball out of the park, but too many times couldn’t score a runner from third. They had too high a strikeout rate. Maybe Polanco will improve that situation, whereas Beltre’s strikeout rate wouldn’t.

  8. Mazinman

    December 3, 2009 at 7:52 am

    I always liked Polanco before he was traded and would be happy to see him back as he is still producing. If we can use the money we would save by signing Polanco and not someone like Beltre to lock up Lee to a long term deal and/or go after another top player then its a worthwhile investment.

  9. bob

    December 3, 2009 at 8:09 am

    How can you NOT be impressed with Amaro? He kept the core together and helped make a 2nd straight run at the World Series. He learned under one of the best in Pat Gillick.

  10. bob

    December 3, 2009 at 8:13 am

    Projected lineup by adding Polanco:


    I’m sure you could interchange Victornio and Polanco and they’d both be comfortable hitting in the 2 or 7 holes. Either way we have 2 good contact hitters at the top and bottom of the order.

    My only concern would be Polanco’s adjustment to 3B full time, but since hes a solid defender at 2B, this should be too much of an issue.

  11. SpinJamin

    December 3, 2009 at 8:55 am

    I have two problems with this if it happens and they may just be moot points as the season progresses. How is Shane going to adjust to being dropped in the order the entire season? How is Polanco going to play at third. I know Beltre would command more money, but I am convinced he is more of a sure thing than any of the other guys. Beltre would just fit into the lineup without affecting others and you wouldn’t need to worry about his defense at all. He probably wouldn’t be much different than Feliz, but I don’t think Feliz was that really bad at all.

  12. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 9:02 am

    At this stage the reason that jumps out at me as to why the Phils are going after polanco is money. Is Polanco is asking for $10-12MM, then what is Beltre looking for? Must be at least a few million more with another year on it. Derosa, too.

    I’m a fan of Polanco, just not sure if he’s right for this situation.

  13. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 9:05 am

    According to Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun, the Phillies are interested in Brandon Lyon. – http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6291487422

  14. Ed R.

    December 3, 2009 at 9:18 am

    I agree with you completely Pat. I think Beltre is the better fit for the Phillies current needs, always have, but if Beltre wants significantly more money than Polanco than Placido is certainly a viable back up option. Especially if that money saved is to go after quality bullpen arms.

    As for Lyon, not my first choice but I would take him. I hope they go after Mike Gonzalez or Damaso Marte. They need a shut down lefty because Romero is anything but. J.C is good but his penchant for walking guys is maddening.

  15. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 9:37 am

    The problem is that the window of opportunity for this team will be closing very soon. There’s no guarantee that Lee and Werth still be here in 2010, and Howard, Hamels, and Rollins may not be here in 2012. (Is there anyone who doesn’t think the Yankees are already looking at Howard as their 2012 DH?). I’d much rather see the team making the bold statement that they’re not content on treading water instead of bringing in these players whose best years are arguably behind them.

  16. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 9:54 am

    I’d prefer Beltre but Polanco is a solid option. My two concerns are:
    1. Defense, how are we sure that he won’t suck playing 3rd base??
    2. Years in the contract. Some sources say it’s 2 years.. but I saw one other source that says it would be for 3 years!!! That would be wayyy too long for a guy we don’t even know could play above-average 3rd base.

    Good things would be the improved situational hitting, good character guy in the clubhouse, can play 2nd when Utley needs to rest (allowing Dobbs to play 3rd), high average, won’t cost any draft picks…

    Amaro knows what he’s doing…

  17. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 9:54 am

    The rumor is that the Phils and Polanco are discussing a 3-year deal. Polanco is 4 years older than Beltre and I just don’t see the logic in giving a 3-year deal to a 34 year old who hasn’t played the position in years.

    Ruben misread the market last offseason when he overpaid for Ibanez. Yes, I know, Ibanez was very good at the beginning of last season, but Ruben gave him $37.5 million when a guy like Abreu got $5 million. Amaro misread the market. Why is Ruben again trying to finish the Phils offseason moves by mid-December?

  18. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 9:55 am

    That tells me that they intend to sign a pitcher who will cost a draft pick of some sort. Lyon will not be the only pitcher they bring in if they get him.

    Polanco saves a bit of money and allows them to spend in other areas. Also, they are not moving backwards. He won a Gold Glove at second base so he can still play the field. You should know by now that this is what Amaro does when he sees an opportunity.

    When Amaro sees the right guy at the right price that fits in with the team he goes hard after him and signs or lands him fast. Thats his style. He does not wait for the expensive guys to sign. He did it with Raul and hes doing it again with Polanco.

  19. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Griffin: he gave Ibanez 31.5m not 37.5m..that’s a 6m difference yo!

  20. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 10:05 am

    My bad on that mistype, Manny!

  21. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Stark is saying talks have intensified. But for 3 yrs, I dont like it one bit. The think that Amaro seems to be keying in on is that Polanco does not come with losing a draft pick. Beltre is a Type-B as is Derosa.

    Also, rumors like this flair up all the time. Just last week Halladay was on his way to Boston as they were “actively pursuing him”. So take it with a grain of salt until Polanco’s name is on the contract.

  22. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 10:09 am

    Hes doing that because he knows that it will take longer to get the pitching resolved. Did you notice the only notable pitcher to sign so far is Wagner?

  23. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Yea, I don’t like this if it’s gonna be for THREE years!!
    THREE years for a 34-yr old who’s gonna be making a switch to 3rd base? I really like Polanco as an option, but this is wayyy too much. If it’s gonna be THREE, I hope the 3rd one is a club option…

  24. Jeff of Nova

    December 3, 2009 at 10:20 am

    I love this move only if they do one thing.

    Go and draft a legit 3rd baseman of the future.

    Polanco is good for 3 more years and is a solid option there. I think the lineup should really goes this route


    Allow Rollins to develop as a pop hitter with speed.

  25. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 10:21 am

    They’re gonna pull the trigger on a 3-yr deal!!! yikes…

    #phils like polanco to play 3rd, bat 2nd. will move victorino to run-producing spot. $18-mil deal should be finalized today.

  26. Ben

    December 3, 2009 at 10:25 am

    i can’t believe he’d do the deal for three years. at best two years with a club option for a third. too much risk for a guy declining and switching positions.

    i do like that this adds a solid option to give utley some days off. dobbs can play third and polanco could move to second for 5-10 games a year, which is a solid line up still and will let utley not taper off at the end of the year.

  27. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Zolecki just sent out a tweet that a 3-year $18 million deal (with a 2013 year mutual option) is “close”. I can’t say that I look foward to watching a 37 year old Polanco playing the hot corner in 2012.

  28. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 10:30 am

    Is that really the going rate of someone like Polanco? Or is Amaro overpaying a bit? I tend to think the latter by about $1 mil per year.

  29. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 10:30 am

    I just hope this translates into an Ibanez-type deal and not a Jenkins-type.


  30. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 10:33 am

    My wild guess is that this is probably what Beltre will get in a few weeks… (some 3yr deal, worth just a couple million more)…

  31. Rdavis

    December 3, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Hmmm lets see…the only problem with this signing is length of contract, age of player, defensive capabilities at a new position, and declining batting average. Now to add insult to injury they will move Victorino down in the lineup and leave Rollins at leadoff. Brilliant!

  32. christian

    December 3, 2009 at 10:34 am

    c’mon guys! the 3 year deal is likely something similar to what Feliz had originally signed for (2 years at $5.5/6 million and club option for the 3rd).

    And Polanco slides perfectly into the #2 hole. Phils are – by default – upgrading the #7 hole with Victorino. Shouldn’t be as many inning ending double plays with Vic down there.

  33. Havoc

    December 3, 2009 at 10:39 am

    If we’re getting our 3B option for 5-6 million or cheaper since it could be more money in the later years. This could be a signal that the Phils will be going after some additional pitching for the team. If the BP or SP was significantly improved by taking the cheaper Polanco over Beltre I’d make that move too. I doubt it will do anything but make our offense better, and Polanco should be able to play 3B well enough for us given the range that Jroll covers.

  34. Ed 2

    December 3, 2009 at 10:40 am

    We have ZERO infield talent coming up so a versatile guy like polanco is good to have around. People seem to love feliz, but besides his happy name, i cant understand why. His defense is slipping according to the stats (closer to league average), his weak infield grounders are terrible rally killers, and most egregiously, he always swings at the first pitch, even if the pitcher walked the last 2 and is teetering. Anyway…

    Figgins costs too much;
    Beltre strikes out too much;
    Tejada is a double play MACHINE;
    Derosa would be a nice luxury, but is inferior to polanco across the board;
    and Lowell is just a joke (thankgod he wanted to go back to the red sox and rejected our better offer 2 years ago)

  35. rusty stab

    December 3, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Polanco will fit in nicely, should bat second behind Victorino(who gets on base more than Rollins and can steal bases). Amaro is a smart guy.
    I would be happy with this move. Polanco is a lifetime .303 hitter. Not bad.

  36. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 10:57 am

    3 years PLUS a mutual option.

  37. DD

    December 3, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I don’t think this is necessarly a bad signing but is’nt this the same guy who would not play third base a few years back? What I don’t want to hear is a guy who won a gold glove as a second baseman moan and groan about playing another position. I’m sure that Ruben has worked this out but this is a pro athlete who has played 2B most of his career. I like a lot of the things he brings with him, I just hope he can play third base. Someone who knows, please enlighten me and give me reason to believe he is the answer at 3B.

  38. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 10:58 am

    “I just hope this translates into an Ibanez-type deal and not a Jenkins-type.”

    It’s way too early to say the Ibanez contract was a good signing. I realize that he’s now a folk hero based on his April & May, but after June 1 he batted just 236 with 47 RBIs. He had a grand total of four RBIs in the month of August. People may blame that on injury, but players in their late 30’s tend to get hurt more. Let’s see how Raul produces over the next two seasons before making a judgement on how well that $30 million was spent.

  39. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Well Polanco would not have signed here if he didnt want to play 3B. Theres a gent named Chase who plays there now, and he sure as shit isnt moving to 3rd.

  40. Paul

    December 3, 2009 at 11:02 am

    If this works, I like the move.

    Palonco is a type of hitter the Phillies lack, patient, doesn’t strike out a lot, and puts the ball in play. They don’t need another feast or famine guy like Feliz or Beltre.

    Plus I like his attitude and versitility in the field.

  41. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 11:05 am

    Options can be declined, though Im a little leery abotu a 3rd year, sure.

    But guys, as it was duly mentioned earlier, they have NO infield talent coming up in the next year or two. NONE. Galvis is the closest but he needs to develop a tad more power and hell be starting at Reading anyway. Otherwise hell be a pure slap hitter. Hewitt busted at 3B and is being moved to the OF. Sellers, I dunno, bench player maybe.

    Otherwise, its up to Polanco to hold it down for a few years until they can come up with a plan.

    I thought, heck – we all THOUGHT thats what they were going to do with Feliz. But they totally blew it in terms of grooming someone behind him. Now, theyll have to do it all over again. But Polanco is quality at the plate. This will be a sick lineup. A little faster, a bit less power with Feliz gone, but MUCH better at putting runners on base and moving them around.

  42. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 11:08 am

    I heard this as 3 years, $18 Million … hopefully that 3rd year is a team-option ..

    I said before that I would be fine with whatever the Phillies wanted to do.. they know how to win .. so Polanco works for me

    I would bat Victorino #6, and Ibanez #7 …

  43. bob

    December 3, 2009 at 11:09 am


    BINGO……and buy put the ball in play you do NOT mean ground into DP or pop up on 1st pitch. This lineup needed a hitter (no matter if he bats 2nd or 7th) that can consistently put the ball in play. How many teams last season were we left stretching our heads when we’d get a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs and couldn’t get them in with a simple ground ball or fly ball. Polanco is a solution to that problem.

    Defensively is the question to see how he adapts at 3B. But I think it’s a good risk to take.

  44. Slice

    December 3, 2009 at 11:09 am

    I think its a good deal and it won’t cost them any draft picks to give up since Detroit didn’t offer him arbitration. he played 322 games at 3rd with a .982 Fielding percentage according to baseball-reference.com, which to me isn’t half bad. He also played SS and of course 2nd so he’s pretty versatile player and a good hitter.

  45. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 11:11 am

    The reports are all 3 years guaranteed with a 4th year mutual option.

  46. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 11:13 am

    @Jeff Dowder: I kinda agree with you, but despite the second-half Raul had an excellent year overall. This first year alone was worth at least halft of his contract, in my opinion. He’s gonna have to be mediocre the next two years to break-even, and I don’t see that happening.

  47. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Ouch. 3 guaranteed years for a 34 year old? Who exactly are the Phillies bidding against? Would a 34 year old declining 2B not accept a 2 year deal?

    Jeff Dowder is right about Ibanez. That deal looked good during the first half of last year, but he still has two more years at big money left. That might not work out so well.

  48. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 11:18 am

    @Geoff.. re; the mutual option.. Yea, but I just threw that out there becuase some of us raised the possibility that the 3rd year was gonna be an option.. but it’s not. The FOURTH year is the mutual option……

    @Don: too early to get into discussing if Vic should bat 6th and Ibanez 7th, but at least I wouldn’t move a 100RBI, 30+HR guy further down the lineup. Raul is an RBI guy, more than Shane. Shane will have to start a rally of his own in the 7th hole… or get Ibanez (and his healthy OBP) in scoring position.

  49. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 11:19 am

    I would rather have Feliz on a 1 year deal than Polanco for 3. Feliz is not as good a hitter, but he’s better defensively at 3B and is less of a risk than a 3 year deal for Polanco.

  50. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 11:20 am

    The deal is 3 FULL seasons, with a mutual option for a 4th. Yikes.

  51. psujoe

    December 3, 2009 at 11:22 am

    When going for a title don’t worry about draft picks. The Phils will get two picks for Lee next year anyway. 3 year deal for a 34 year old second baseman to play 3rd seems a bit risky to me. I like power at 3rd base, especially in CBP. If they could get Beltre for 3/18 or even 3/21 I’d take him.

  52. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 11:22 am

    I was hoping that our new 3B would be as good defensively or have more power than Feliz. Polanco is neither. He has had an OBP above .350 only twice in his career-he is NOT an on base machine by any stretch. But he’s ours for 3 years!!

  53. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Well, with Polanco batting ahead of Chase next seasion could be Chase’s MVP year…

  54. Ben

    December 3, 2009 at 11:25 am

    griffin, i agree. thats what i don’t get. unless amaro is projecting the third basemen market to be terrible next year and so he wants to lock someone up long term and didn’t feel comfortable locking up feliz.

    is this an amaro trend? good signings for too long (moyer, ibanez, now polanco)?

  55. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 11:29 am

    has KEITH LAW ever said anything positive about a Phillies move???

  56. Mocha Joe

    December 3, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Didn’t they already sign Juan Castro to play 3B?

  57. rusty stab

    December 3, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Players are conditioned better than ever. A lot of players have plenty of gas in then tank at 35 — look at the Yankees. Disciplined millionaire athletes are making 40 the new 35 with conditioning. Not to mention vitamins and dietary supplements. And I don’t mean illegal steroids. Pit

  58. Dave

    December 3, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Keith Law’s Amaro criticism is completely unfair. Ibanez was playing hurt. And that’s his evidence? One signing? For years the Phils were the team involved in trade rumors but unwilling to go for that additional year. If thats what it takes to get Polanco, than that’s what he will do.

    I also don’t understand how people are complaining that Polanco doesn’t bring power. 1.) Neither did Feliz with 26 combined bombs in 2 seasons and 2.) who cares? They don’t need another 30 HR 100 K guy. They need a professional hitter. That’s Polanco.

  59. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 11:35 am

    The 3rd year for Ibanez, and for POlanco could be ugly. But thats what these older guys want though. They want to win, and they want to be on a team like this for as long as possible.

  60. Paul

    December 3, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Griffin this team doesn’t need another home run hitter, they already have Howard, Utley, Ibanez, and Werth who should all hit 25+. And they have Rollins who will try to hit 25+…

  61. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 11:38 am

    If Polanco costs 6, Beltre will cost like 8 or 9, and Figgins will get 10 but for more years. DeRosa is interesting. But Polanco is a far better hitter and fielder than DeRosa. Thats not even really debateable.

  62. GWFightinsFan

    December 3, 2009 at 11:44 am

    I’m just so sick of seeing Feliz get himself out with a popup swinging at the first pitch or hitting into a rally killing double play…Polanco will hold his own over at 3rd, and be a MUCH more valuable part of the lineup. Yeah, 3 years may be too long a contract, but hey, sometimes the big market teams have to overbid to get their guy, remember the days when there was no WAY the Phils would be outbidding anyone? And besides, even if he starts to slow down defensively in that 3rd year, we can always find another 3rd basemen and use PP as a solid right handed contact hitter off the bench…

  63. Ben

    December 3, 2009 at 11:45 am

    i agree with geoff in that the jury is still out on this signing (if it completes as is). if beltre and figgins go for what you say, then this is not nearly as bad of a deal as we are making it out to be. if beltre cots 6-7 for 3 years, then you have to question it.

  64. Chuck

    December 3, 2009 at 11:47 am

    Remember guys….Raul’s second half wouldn’t have been so bad had he not been hurt and spent time on the DL….ok…had he not been hurt he most likely would have cooled off a bit from his torrid first couple of months..

    Look for Raul to be back in form ….maybe not quitre as hot as last Spring…but better than his second half of 2009

    Lets’s just wait and see how he does in 2010 befor we automatically assume that he third year in 2011 will suck..

  65. MikeMc26

    December 3, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Don’t forget that Ibanez was playing hurt the entire second half last year, which likely had a lot to do with the drop off at the plate

  66. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Beltre will now get somewhere around 3 years- $25 … or 4 years- $30+

  67. George

    December 3, 2009 at 11:54 am


    Polanco never refused to play third. The Phils, at the time, had David Bell standing there. Polanco played the position well, and without complaint when Bell was injured. Bell had a big contract and wasn’t trade material, so Polanco had to be moved.

    As far as overpaying, we won’t know that until his third year. At least the draft pick he saves might be used for something else. For the present, it appears he’ll be making little more per year than Feliz, and will probably hit a lot better.

    A Beltre coming off surgery could not be a guarantee, either, and will likely cost some other team a few millions more than Polanco.

  68. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 11:55 am

    By 2011 … we probably won’t need Ibanez to produce anything anyway …. Domonic Brown will be ready by then

    Ibanez will most likely be traded at the deadline in 2011 to an AL team in need of an OF/DH … lots of teams will be interested

    His value won’t be all that high, but its better than getting nothing

  69. Jeff Dowder

    December 3, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    “But Polanco is a far better hitter and fielder than DeRosa. Thats not even really debatable.”

    The fielding part IS debatable since Polanco hasn’t really played 3B in seven years. We won’t really know until the games begin.

  70. Ben

    December 3, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    at the end of the day though, thats what happens to older players. they get hurt more and it takes them longer to recover.

    by consistently signed 35+ year old players to deals longer than 2 years you will see that happen a lot. i agree that none of amaro’s deals have been outrageous, but its clear that with both ibanez and moyer we overpaid for too many years. both could have been had for either less money or less years (or both possibly). but we have the wallets, so its not the end of the world.

  71. MikeMc26

    December 3, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Who do the Phils have in the farm right now that could eventually play third?

  72. DD

    December 3, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Thanks George for the info on Polanco’s third base history with the phils. My memory isn’t always what I think it is. I just thought I remembered that he didnt want to move to third to make way for Utley. I just hope that he is a good fielder at the hot corner and has a third baseman’s arm. Other than that concern, he is a welcome addition with the bat and in the clubhouse.

  73. GWFightinsFan

    December 3, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    DD, you might be thinking of Iguchi from a couple years back, who was brought in when Utley got hurt, but didnt want to switch to 3rd when Utley came back…

  74. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    they have NOBODY on the farm to play second, third, short, or first.

    They have prospects that are decent, but theyre all too far away. This year will determine if Galvis is the real deal or not.

  75. ryan

    December 3, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    I like this move. the phillies order definitely needs a guy like Polanco who is a good contact hitter who can move runners and work pitchers . get sac flies. this has been their biggest weakness. fundamentals are the top of the order. this is the biggest weakness for both shane and jimmy’s games. they don’t play good fundamental baseball sometimes. polanco will do that. and he will bat in the neighborhood of .300. something most philllies don’t do. I like it.

  76. Christian

    December 3, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Not true that they don’t have anyone in the minors for INF. They just don’t have anyone at AA or AAA. They’ll have developed some decent infielders by the time they need them in 2012 & 2013.

  77. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    amen Christian … they have guys.. they just aren’t AAA-players or Baseball America TOP PROSPECTS yet

    usually when guys get into A-ball, Clearwater .. you can see who is legit, or who was just good against inferior competition

    We have a lot of OUTFIELD talent.. so whatever moves the Phillies make in the next year or so, look for them to look to acuire INFIELDERS as throw-ins

  78. David

    December 3, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    I don’t know if it has been pointed out yet or not, but type B free agents don’t cost the signing team a pick. The team that loses the type B free agent gets a sandwich pick that is conjured from thin air by MLB in between rounds one and two. So anyone who thinks signing Polanco is beneficial over Beltre bc of any draft pick compensation is misled. The phils wouldnt lose a draft pick by signing either if Beltre is type B.

  79. Big Daddy

    December 3, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Polanco is in Philly right now. Expect the announcement this afternoon
    or this evening

  80. Adam G

    December 3, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    I think the signing is fine. The problem I have is dropping victorino in the order. Both him and Polanco have identical lifetime OBP and you CAN NOT take the speed away from the top of the lineup and hope to have the same success. Not smart. Polanco 7th is fine. They guy can hit but never walks, his on base is too low for a number 2 spot without speed.

  81. Keith

    December 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Is Polanco faster than Feliz?

  82. bfo_33

    December 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Solid signing, even for 3 yrs (utility infielder by 3rd year). The Baltimore Orioles have demonstrated the futility of managing a team like a fantasy owner. Beltre may have the stats, but has never played for a playoff team, his one big offensive explosion was in a contract year, pre steroid ban. He may be a driven, great guy, but Sea doesn’t seem too disappointed in losing him.

    PP has performed well in the playoffs, and seems like an all around good fit.

  83. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Beltre led the 2004 Dodgers to the playoff. He is four years younger than Polanco.

    Keith Law doesn’t hate the Phillies just because he didn’t like the Ibanez signing and doesn’t like the Polanco signing. Law says that Chase Utley is the 2nd best player in the NL and a top 5 player in the game. So Don M, there is your nice thing he has said about the Phillies.

  84. DaveG

    December 3, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Great decision! What do the Phillies lack? Situational hitting. We’ve complained about it for years. We’ve seen rallies killed b/c of runners not being moved…contact not being made, etc. Beltre is a 12 year vet and suspected juicer (48 dingers in ’04 = suspect) coming off an injury plagued season and people keep talking about his upside? This is a solid move with Polanco at 3b alone…throw in his versatility and I think we’ve made serious inroads in the area of increasing our overall depth as well.

  85. just saying

    December 3, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    forget the whiz kids, or anything else you want to throw in there…i think the only thing applicable is the old slow kids

  86. JD

    December 3, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Deal is done 3yr 18mil

  87. Chuck

    December 3, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Good job by Ruben…

    So what if Polanco is a utility guy by the third year…what he potentially brings now is an upgrade offensively and flexibility in the line-up….a few days off for Chase and some playing time for Dobbs…that certainly can’t hurt…

    Same thing with Ibanez….whatever he does in his third year is a bonus…it’s what he did LAST year and will probably bring this year that really counts…

  88. Megary

    December 3, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Welcome back Polly. I say that Polanco will earn his 18 million, even if it’s just by a whisker. Now let’s shore up the staff.

    If I had my say:

    Victorino (S)
    Utley (L)
    Werth (R)
    Howard (L)
    Rollins (S)
    Ibanez (L)
    Polanco (R)
    Ruiz (R)

    No worries about matchups, move Rollins to a run producing spot, get your best hitter an extra 30-40 AB’s over the course of a season. I like it so much that I’m convinced it would never happen.

  89. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Yeah they will draft a surefire infielder or liek 5 in June. Maybe one of them will pan out. This is a big year for some of those guys they do have. Well found out if any of them are for real or not.

    This is a good signing though. If hes a bench player by year three, so be it That means they have two years to find someone and develop them!

    I agree with Don about Ibanez, I feel that even if the Phils are heading back to the playoffs in 2011, they stiill might move Ibanez at the deadline that year. Im ok with that.

  90. Harper

    December 3, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Personally I love this. I never wanted Polanco to leave. Great player with tons of heart. This is what he said when they traded him in 2005: “It’s sad to be leaving good friends, but I’m happy because I’m going to play more. I just wanted to play. I wanted to stay here my whole life.” How can you NOT love a guy like that?

    Plus he has the most mellifluous name in baseball.

    And, he knows how to wear a cup.

  91. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    And Beltre was most likely roided up during that year…even if he wasnt, he has never come close to being anything but a one year wonder. And Polanco wont strike out as much.

  92. Evan

    December 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    As long as he’s healthy his defense should be solid, even moving over to third. Still 3 years is a long time for a guy who’s already 34 and has seen a significant drop in his numbers at the plate over the past 2-3 years. Two years would’ve been a smart deal, I fear the third year makes it questionable. I do see the benefit in the being able to move him over to second to rest chase without leaving the hole in the lineup that was Bruntlett.

    Amaro’s go to move apparently seems to be locking up old guys in “relatively” long deals. I say relatively because 3 years isn’t too long for polanco or ibanez, but neither of these guys should theoretically be doing anything but declining as they age. And 2 years for Moyer was way too long.

  93. Ruben Amaro

    December 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    As i was reading the posts here i literally just got a recorded phone call from Ruben Amaro! hahhaha I wanted to ask him the details about this move and to only do it for 2 years. He just kept talking and would’nt listen!

    I like Polanco but he’s not the same guy as 7 years ago. He’s getting older too and 3 years is too much.

  94. Lucky

    December 3, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Welcome back Polanco! I’m glad to see him back in red stripes! I, myself never wanted him to leave either. He’s a career .302 hitter (great in my oppinion) just what we need. Who cares if he wasn’t an everyday 3B, he’s still a gold glove winner, and a magician with the stick. Keith Law said he’s a 2 game improvement over Feliz? I disagree, I think its more like 4 or 5. Now all we need to do is shoot for the moon and try to land on Halladay (highly doubtful) and sign Bentacourt then were off to another world series our 3rd time in a row…Wouldn’t that be insane?

  95. psujoe

    December 3, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    TWIW, his average, Slugging percentage and OPS have all declined for 3 straight years. Last year was his worst average in 7 years. not a good sign for a 34 year on a three year deal.

  96. SDO

    December 3, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    ESPN MLB: It’s Official.

  97. Dave S

    December 3, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Holy monkey. I can’t believe it. Surely they think he’s replacing Bruntlett, not Feliz.

  98. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Oh well… 3 years… WELCOME BACK PLACIDO!

  99. GWFightinsFan

    December 3, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    The Phillies obviously like veterans, and there’s nothing wrong with that. They needed a solid contact hitter for this lineup and hopefully Polanco fills that need. Yes it may be a step down defensively, but I think he will be a steadying force in our lineup. Go get some solid pitching Ruben, and I will call this a sucessful offseason!

  100. Gavin

    December 3, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    A few thoughts:

    The Phils are building a very “professional” team by adding Ibanez and Polanco. I think thats a huge plus.

    Victorino would be better in the lead off spot. He’s not an ideal hitter, but he’s a better fit there than JRoll at this point in their careers. If you let Rollins bat 6th or 7th. Think of the sac flies the guy could have. He could get 100 RBi’s w/o getting a hit in this lineup.

    I’m more concerned about the pen than 3rd base. There are alot of holes to fill down there…..Putz and Soriano are my top choices. I hate Gonzalez, and I havent seen Betancourt. The Phils better get moving on the pen b/c those guys are going to start drying up quickly.

  101. Pat Gallen

    December 3, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    I like Polanco, I do. But 3 years is 1 too many. A 2 year, $12 million deal. Doesnt that sound so much better for him?

  102. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Theyre doing it just in case they dont find someone quickly though. Essentially giving then two extra years beyond 2011 to really get a replacement in.

  103. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    These comments are from earlier … but were both “AT” me .. so I wanted to respiond ..

    I would have Victorino bat 6th.. because he’s the better hitter.. and he can do more things on the bases

    Why have Vic bat 7th where a ground-ball by Ruiz gets Vic out at 2nd. etc.

    And Ibanez’s power numbers are because he was batting 5th, 3rd, 6th …

    He will still be productive.. but if the game comes down to needing a hit to win, and the 6th hole comes around. I would rather have the better hitter at the plate with the extra at-bat .. in this case, Victorino before Ibanez

    Polanco setting up Utley for an MVP year … … Victorino led the Phillies in hitting the past two season

    I just looked this up, over the past two season.. Victorino has 6 less hits, in 8 fewer at-bats

    Polanco hit .296 over the past two season, with OBP% of .350 in 2008, and .331 in 2009. He struck out a TOTAL of 89 times in the past two years.

    Victorino hit .292 over the past two seasons, with OBP% of .352 in 2008, and .358 in 2009. He struck out a total of 140 times.

    I think it was just the fact of cutting down strikeouts.. adding a contact hitter to move the leadoff man over.. to keep innings alive, and create more scoring chances for Utley, Howard, Werth .. the 3 years is long.. but the move is GREAT for the lineup

  104. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Can’t believe you just said that Victorino is a better hitter than Ibañez. I’m cracking up….

  105. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    “adding a contact hitter to move the leadoff man over.. to keep innings alive, and create more scoring chances for Utley, Howard, Werth .. ”

    That’s exactly why I think this could help Utley get more RBIs and bigger numbers… and as a result, perhaps, an MVP award.

  106. rusty stab

    December 3, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    I’m happy to see Polanco back in the red pinstripes. He will really help the offense and will not hurt us one bit on defense. Good Deal !!!! Victorino should be given the opportunity to lead off with Polanco batting second. Rollins — seventh. He will add pop to the back of the order during his contract year.

  107. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Tigers fan says:
    “As a Tigers fan, this is a sad day in Detroit. The most clutch hitter we’ve had on the team and now he’s gone. It’s not fair a team as good as the Phillies get to add him to their already potent lineup. That team will most definitely make the WS again in ’10”

    Dodgers fan says:
    “As a Dodger fan this move sucks for us. I always thought P. Feliz was the weak poin in that potent lineup as he never really lived up to expectations even in SF. But it sucks to see the team that took us out of the playoffs two years in a row get better while we stay the same.”

  108. Ellis

    December 3, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Keith Law is the biggest philly hater. There hasnt been a bigger douche since Steve Phillips

  109. SDO

    December 3, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    So what was Feliz’s fielding percentage in ’09?

  110. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Law is definitely a hater.

    Didnt some GM anonymously feed a line about him along the lines of “hes good at getting information, but he knows absolutely nothing about baseball at all.”

    but I think it was more profane than that.

    I am EXCITED about this move. If this guy stays healthy this lineup just got a whooooooooooooooooooooole lot better.

  111. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    They’ve tried Victorino in the leadoff spot before.. and he doens’t do well there

    In their careers, while batting leadoff:

    Rollins: .278 Batting Average, and .334 On-Base Percentage

    Victorino: .227 Batting Average, and a .291 On-Base Percentage

    Victorino’s MOST PRODUCTIVE spot in the lineup???
    6th.. where he’s got a career .339 Batting Average, and a .392 On-Base%

    Rollins’s MOST PRODUCTIVE spot in the lineup???
    also 6th.. where he’s got a career .336 Batting Average, and a .354 OBP%

    So you’ve got Jimmy Rollins is the more productive leadoff hitter
    and Shane Victorino as the more productive 6-hitter

  112. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    This really gives them a flexible, and less predictable lineup.

  113. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Why weren’t the Dodgers IN on Polanco ???

    They need a #2 hitter, and a 2b .. right? Or is Belliard still on their team?

  114. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    The lineup:


    That’s one scary lineup… woah.

    — Defense is gonna be a whole different issue, though.

  115. joedad

    December 3, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Polanco was the 2nd best 3rd base option IMO (next to Figgins). My concern with Polanco is the same as DeRosa, what happens if he can’t perform defensively as an everyday player at 3rd? It is a slight gamble but I think he is athletic enough to make it work.

    Polanco is an upgrade offensively over Feliz. He is 3 years older than Beltre but isn’t as aged in baseball years (Beltre had the one year “wonder.

  116. Geoff

    December 3, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Belliard is a free agent…It perplexes me why they missed Polanco, actually…

    Their fans must be pissed.

  117. Dan S

    December 3, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Okay, phillies fans have to realize the figgins was NEVER going to come to philly he cost too much and altought you might not agree charlie believe that jimmy is a leadoff hitter…period. also beltre’s bat was in as much of a decline as polanco’s. He never preformed like expected in seatle. Polanco will be a nice fit, because he hits for average and DOESNT STRIKE OUT. He will be able to move guys over and at least put the ball in play with a man in scoring position.

  118. Andrew

    December 3, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Are we sure the 34 is a legit age?
    If the guy is happy here it could be a good fit. Seems a bit high a price but we are in a win now mode.
    When are we getting a second good starter to go with lee and a closer?

  119. bob

    December 3, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Outside of obvious ups and downs of a 162 game + season, can you really pick out a hole in our starting lineup?

    Our 7 hole hitter is most likely to hit anywhere between .285 and .300, with very few strikeouts. I’m talking about Polanco or Victornio.

    Very excited about this move. No offense to Pedro but we dont have a gaping hole in the 7 spot any longer. Yes it’s gonna be a downgrade defensively but I dont think Polanco will be a butcher at 3rd, he’s won 2 gold gloves at 2B so we know he can field.

  120. Jeff

    December 3, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Its two years with an option for a third. Buyout is 1 mill. Here is what dodger fans and tiger fans are saying…

    As a Tigers fan, this is a sad day in Detroit. The most clutch hitter we’ve had on the team and now he’s gone. It’s not fair a team as good as the Phillies get to add him to their already potent lineup. That team will most definitely make the WS again in ’10

    This is a great move for the Phils. Their main problem has always been their all or nothing offense, and adding a guy who will hit 50 points higher in average and also knock as many homers as Feliz will definitely fill some cracks. Polanco’s defense is very comparable to Feliz, although I will miss Pedro’s laser beam throws to first base. This is a solid upgrade.

  121. Georgie

    December 3, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Oooooo, splendid! I’ve been busy with other stuff so this is the first I’ve heard about signing PP, haven’t read the comments yet, but I’m very happy with this move. back to reading comments now.

  122. mikemike

    December 3, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    After reading some of the comments on here, and reading keith law. this might be the worst move in the history of baseball. a 303 decling hitter cant figure that out, a guy who rarely strikeouts, hits to right and its a bad signing, over a guy who stirkeouts a ton and cant hit a lick cannot understand it as far a three years that is what he would have got most likely they are only counting on him for two years.

  123. Evan

    December 3, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    If its 2 years with an option for the third I’m a lot more positive about this move. Props to Amaro!

  124. Manny

    December 3, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    It’s not Evan. It’s 3 guaranteed years, plus a mutual option for the 4th.

  125. Jeff

    December 3, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Manny I was about the post the same thing. LOL. Great move. Keith Law is a joke. Thinks Tiger Woods is a saint. This leaves us money to sign pitching. Good solid move. We will be back to the World Series and get beat again by the Yankees or Sox. Better pitching there.

  126. beta sigma shag

    December 3, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    All you people moving JRoll out of lead off, you have to get that idea out of your head. Charlie will have JRoll lead off as long as he is on the team, proved that last year.
    And for all you Feliz haters, did he not lead the team in hits with runners in scoring position, so he was not a gaping hole in the line up. Had a down post season, but, he was not as bad as you are saying at the plate.
    Like the Raul deal last year, I have to be a wait and see guy. Like Raul, I felt he would be an offensive upgrade over Pat the Bat, and he was, But I was not sure about the defensive side, as the year progressed, I realized he was a more capable fielder then Pat, not great, but a slight upgrade. Pat had a better arm.
    That is my wait and see on PP. Can he play third 135-140 games a year, I hope he will not be a defensive liablity, but I am not sure. And for what 1/2 million more then Feliz would have cost us, if he is a capable 3rd basemen it is worth it.
    The third year is questionable IMO, but you do what you have to do to get the guy you want.
    I have faith the FO knows more than me and anyone on here, so I say good job, hope it works.
    I also do not think that a gold glove second basemen, equates into a great 3rd basemen, but we can all hope

  127. NJ

    December 3, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    I love how if there’s critisism it’s that we haven’t been bringing in the flashy names. The Phillies have had two incredible seasons and the only thing lacking at times is depth and the gritty stay out of bad situation guys… Aren’t those the guys Amaro is adding coupled without parting with some of the best prospects in baseball as well as holding onto several guys on the farm that could become very servicable cheap and effective role players.

    I wouldn’t go so far as to say Keith Law is an idiot but he has been flat out wrong about the Phils and our acquisitions in what might end up being considered the most successful years of the franchise. He loves the Mets and Rays and he likes the Phillies on top like he probably likes the idea of getting and STD…

  128. Don M

    December 3, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Manny.. I think I read earlier.

    that you DON’T think Victorino is a better hitter than Ibanez ?

    Victorino lead our team in batting average each of the past two seasons…

  129. beta sigma shag

    December 3, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    IMO the line up
    Mostly because I feel Vic may have a little more pop in his bat which is better suited for 7th than 2nd, and JRoll will not move out of the lead off spot

  130. joedad

    December 3, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Polanco in the 2 hole is a slight downgrade from Victorino but Polanco’s skills fit the 2 hole well. Victorino in the 7th hole is a big upgrade over Feliz.

  131. Jesus

    December 3, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    I like Polanco but would rather have Beltre. PP is 3yrs older and hasn’t played 3b regularly since 02. Also, contact hitters who don’t walk and have little speed tend to hit into quite a few double plays. I won’t trash the move but I don’t agree with it.

  132. jrollpatrol08

    December 3, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    I REALLY REALLY hope i am proved wrong here. because i think this is an incredibly bad move. i agree with all the posts…why a 34 year old for 3 years who hasnt even played 3rdbase since he left here?? didnt amaro say we were trying to ‘upgrade’ at 3rd base. the window of utley, howard, rollins is not going to be around long enough to experiment with a 34 year old who had a great CAREER obp. look at him lately…his production has been on the decline, which, as no surprise, tends to happen when you come out of your prime. he should have pulled the trigger on beltre for 3 years

    we can all praise ruben for the great ibanez signing because raul had a decent year this year at his age. next season and definitely the season after when raul is pushing 40 still makin 10mil a year we will all see how incredibly bad that signing was. i see this move following that same pattern and i dont like it.

    i really really hope beltre signs an outrageous contract somewhere. then i will feel like maybe we got some kind of bargain. and im a fan either way…it didnt happen the way i wanted, but polanco is here now and i am gonna root for him to move runners over, get on base, and continue rallies for the big boppers. i dont like it one bit but i hope i am proved wrong…

  133. Dan S

    December 3, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    as for defence this doesnt hurt the phillies that much. j-roll and victorino are gold glovers, utley rarely commits errors, yes his arm did go wild in the playoffs but I phils fans shouldnt worry about that. Utley puts so much time into his game, if he find a problem with his game he works and works and works to fix it. Werth’s athleticism make him a great fielder with a cannon for an arm. Howard is much improved and ruiz never lets a ball get by, just check out this play


    so if you consider polanco poor defensively the phils have 2-3 week defenders, ibanez(who has shown to be better than expected) polanco and possibly ryan howard(unless he can figure out how to throw to 2nd)

  134. Havoc

    December 3, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I think this move has potential. Polanco has been a pretty steady bat, the defense will remain to be seen. However if you look at the Phil’s offseason so far I like what they’re doing.

    Polanco should be an offensive upgrade over Feliz, Schneider should do at least as well as Bako/Coste, and Castro can’t help but be better than Bruntlett.

    We’ll see how Polanco does in the field, but he’s always been an excellent defender at 2B, I’ve got faith he’ll be ok at third.

    We’ve been told the Phils will have right around 20 million to spend, after estimated raises in arbitration. When you take out Schneider, Castro, & Polanco. The Phils have 11,960,000 to pump into the 3 open Bullpen spots and one more bench player.

    We’ll see how it goes, but our offense should be the best in the NL again next year, with the money they can spend our bullpen should be at the top of the league also, and banking that Cole has a bounce back year I feel pretty comfortable with the rotation. 2010 should be a fun year.

  135. The Dipsy

    December 3, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Love Placido. On the decline?….Ok..so he hits .290 instead of .300. I’ll take it! He dosesn’t strike out. He’ll move runners. Just the kind of guy we needed in the lineup. I don’t think Ruben would have signed him to a three year deal if he didn’t think he could play third. Remember, he’s got Jimmy at short so he can shade the line a little more. My lineup against LHP:

    Chase Utley
    Placido Polanco
    Jimmy Rollins
    Jason Werth
    Raul Ibanez
    Ryan Howard
    Shane Victorino
    Carlos Ruiz

    A lotta OBP in the top two spots. Werth kills lefties. Lefties kill Ryan. Those three at the top will move on contact, play hit and run, and produce runs when Ryan can’t hit one out. Don’t knock it till ya try it.

    The Dipsy

  136. Griffin

    December 3, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Jrollpatrol08, I agree with you completely. Well said.

  137. psujoe

    December 3, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    The Dipsy,

    based on the trends the last there years you shouldn’t have an expectation that Polanco will hit over .275 with an OPS around .680. Not factoring in ball park and pitching, ec.

    2007 .341
    2008 .307
    2009 .285

  138. psujoe

    December 3, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    I will say this. One thing that works in Polanco’s favor is he had a better second half than first half. when a three year downward trend is seen in conjunction with worse production as the season progresses it’s much mroe indicative of a ‘decline’. see feliz. That’s encouraging.

  139. Havoc

    December 3, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    I’d aggree dipsy except I don’t ever move Howard out of the number 4 spot. Some switching around here and there is ok, but until we have a better power threat that’s Ryan’s spot.

  140. jrollpatrol08

    December 3, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    ‘we’ll just have to see how the market develops’…–ruben

    haha! until when??? december 2? way to feel out the market pal.

    eh whatever…im gonna stop bitchin now…i wanted beltre soooo damn bad because he is 3 years younger and would kill the ball at cbp. but this is the choice that the phils made and i guess we gotta hope for the best…

    dipsy–chase will never lead off. it doenst make baseball sense to have your most consistent hitter for power/avg/rbi leading off. jimmy will start the season in leadoff like hes been doin. if hes ontop of his game again, he will stay. if not, he will move down. its that easy. charlie has shown hes not afraid to move him down but he will get a chance in the beginning…

    damn!!!! i can t get over this signing

  141. NateB

    December 3, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    I’m excited about the PP pickup. Surprised at all the complaints. I’m not complaining that there are now All-Stars from 1-7 in the lineup. 🙂 Also, glad Amaro and the boys are done looking for hitters because it’s time to FOCUS ON PITCHING!!!!

  142. The Dipsy

    December 3, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Havoc –

    Have you checked JWerth’s stats against LHP? He’s a monster. The gulf between JW against RHP and Ryan against LHP is so profound that to not make that switch is ridiculous. IMO. As for Chase leading off, a lot of the guys on the team can hit 30 hrs but nobody else can have his OBP. He also stole 23 bases and is are best baserunner.

    The Dipsy

  143. Dave

    December 3, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    Let’s be honest, Polanco’s decline from 2007 to 2008 is him regressing to his career mean. He’s a good hitter, but not .340 good.

    And Law’s full of shit: Raul had a sh%^^& 2nd half because he was injured.

  144. Els

    December 3, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    P.S. Polanco had 3 more double plays with about 50 more plate appearences. So, he is a all aroung better hitter than Feliz, the GIDP’s will still be there.

  145. Ed 2

    December 3, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    At worst this is a below average signing. At best it is an above average signing. Not everything has to be “incredibly” bad. Websters defines an incredibly bad signing as 7+ years, 140+ million dollars. See Soriano, Alfonso or Zito, Barry.

    A third year at 6 million is far from crippling. Paying 20+ million for a useless player can destroy a team, not a semi-useful guy at 6 million. The seas are not boiling and the dead are not rising from the grave.

  146. Dave

    December 3, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Also, can anyone explain David Bell to me? Why exactly did we ever sign him in the first place, other than his dad was one of our coaches?

  147. Jesus

    December 3, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    I wanted Beltre so bad and truly believed Amaro was going to get him. I don’t mind the 6mill/yr as much as I can’t get over the 3yrs. Another reason that Beltre would have been a good fit is that we have no RH power besides Werth on the team and chances are he is gone after this season, so who will be that bat next year? I’m sure Taylor will be up but there are no guarantees with a prospect. Beltre has played his whole career in pitcher parks. Safeco field is notorious against RH hitters and Beltre still put up 3 seasons w/at least 25hr’s. I can’t even imagine the type of damage he would have done in this lineup. Not to mention how many runs he would save at 3rd base. I still don’t understand this move.

  148. PhxPhilly

    December 3, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    The ‘professional’ label on Polanco is appropriate. Like Ibanez they are getting high performing consistent players. Both are on the decline but Polanco gives flexibility. He can be a legitimate pinch hitter and won 2 gold gloves at 2B so even if he loses something he will be a useful player (unlike Ibanez who is only a hitter – see Stairs).
    Everyone is talking about Beltre and his 3 years younger, but he is the one who was hurt this past year.
    I wanted Tejeda. I think he is a better run producer than Polanco and is similar with no walks or strikeouts and plays 160 games almost ever year. Plus having a backup SS is more valuable than a backup 2B. He could hit 3rd in the lineup.

  149. beta sigma shag

    December 3, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Last time PP played real time at third base 104 games in St Louis 2001
    131 games split between st Louis and PHilly

    323 267 7,288 820 2.5 805 201 604 15 70 n/a n/a n/a .982 2.98

    fielding at thrid for career

  150. badburn

    December 3, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    As a fielder, it’s a definite decline.

    As a hitter, Palanco does the right things. Moving runners over, contact with runner on less and than two outs.

    Also, gives the Phillies more flexibility if the front line-up slips.

    I expected Feliz to hit 20Hrs and 80 Rbi’s a year. I could see Palanco exceeding the 12 dingers Feliz put up in ’09. 80 Rbi’s is doable if Ryan, Jayson, and Raul get on base.

    Overall, great clubhouse guy, good team player, who should be an improvement over Pedro Feliz.

  151. 2010 WF Champs

    December 3, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    For yrs the MO of this franchise has been the old “bait,wait and switch” app during the off season when it came to signing big name fas. Throw out a couple of big names to make us think they’re about winning, wait until the real contenders sign those big names and they then lie to us by saying they tried but were forced to go with a more logical option. a.k.a complete bs as their is no salary cap.

    now they’ve become doers. We’re 7th in MLB in payroll. Go check where we were by in 1998.

    -You’re not going to get a Palanco for anything less than three yrs. Waiting for the Beltre mkt to devlp was way too risky. Remember last yr when the Mets f*cked around with Ibanez? It f*cked their whole OF situation to pieces. I like Pedro. He got the game winning hit in the WS. But come playoff time this guy almost compl vanishes. This move is risky but it had to be made. Thanks for the memories Pedro Feliz. You will never be forgotten. If Ruiz can play somewhat-po baseball in the regular season our lineup will be sick.

  152. Lucky

    December 3, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Does anyone remember what Polanco looked like without a hat on? The top half of his head was so huge that he looked like a goldfish lol…But one thing is for sure! He could play some ball

  153. DD

    December 3, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    I think that we all saw a huge improvement in Ryan Howard’s glovework this past season. One thing he never had to worry about were throws from third, they were always at his chest. I hope that adding a second basemen to play third doesn’t negatively impact the defense of both our corner infielders. I believe that adding PP to the offensive lineup may be an upgrade but here’s to hoping he can play a stellar 3B.

  154. 2010 WF Champs

    December 3, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Forever looking to add depth on their O-line, the Eagles have agreed to terms with former Kanas head coach Mark Mangino!

  155. 2010 WF Champs

    December 3, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    You got a point there DD… But Feliz’s range is toast. A lot of would be ground outs to Feliz’s left went tru as base hits(including several that should’ve been double plays). Pedro had to sacf those singles to help protect his even more declining range to his right which of course would’ve been doubles. J-Roll’s range(to his right)has been declining as well. It’s been awhile, but hopefully P has a little more range than Pedro had.

  156. jrollpatrol08

    December 4, 2009 at 5:49 am

    im with ya jesus…truly feel like beltre was a great opportunity that we missed out on. boras must be working on a 4yr 40mil deal with someone.

  157. Rdavis

    December 4, 2009 at 7:24 am

    Forget Polanco…what are we doing about our crummy bullpen? The Braves so far have added Wagner and Saito. We need to get a couple solid arms as well as a 5th starter before I’m comfortable. Oh and sign Lee to a long term deal!

  158. Jesus

    December 4, 2009 at 7:55 am

    It seems like Amaro was looking for a 3rd baseman who could play multiple positions because they supposedly asked Cabrera if hed be willing to play 3rd and he passed.

  159. Jesus

    December 4, 2009 at 8:05 am

    Cabrera? I haven’t had coffee yet. Orlando Hudson is who I meant. I apologize for the error.

  160. bfo_33

    December 4, 2009 at 8:11 am

    Unless a premier closer, it is a total waste to spend a lot of $$ on a bullpen. Ryan freaking Franklin was one of the top closers last year! The Mets had “the” bullpen last year, and were going to win the division. How did that work out? Go for volume, see who pans out. With the exception of the elite (Mariano, Papelbon) all these guys are hit or miss, sometimes in the same season. The best bullpen is one that doesn’t pitch much. Get a #3 starter who can pitch 7 innings. Then Madson, Durbin, and a few lefties (hopefully Romero is healthy and Eyre is willing to come back for another year) will get to Lidge. Then we roll the dice.
    I think Amaro has done well so far. Any player who is unwilling to shift positions to play on the NL champs is more interested in personal stats than wins. Ruben is getting gamers. Polanco seems like one of those guys who just wants to play, would probably do anything but pitch or catch if you asked him. Atl overpaid for Wagner – bet he doesn’t make it through the season, torches the team along the way.

  161. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Thank you BFO!!!!!

    My point exactly. Id be ok with signing Brandon Lyon and a few cheapo scrap heap guys.

    Then once the price on Piniero drops, you go after it. Or you wait until the trade market develops. They most definitely need a solid starter in there. Drabek better not even sniff the major leagues until September. They wont rush him unless they get hit by injuries.

    Other than Blanton, which we know what hell do. Lee, we know what hell do.

    Ja Happ is a question mark, will he have a sophmore slump? will be be able to maintain consistency

    Cole Hamels, will he have a bounce back season?

    Who is the 5th starter?

    They defintiely need to bring in a groundball right handed pitcher to chew up some innings, like sort of how Blanton does.

  162. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 9:33 am

    Although they need a backup plan for Lidge this time. They had no plan at all last year when that went down.

  163. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 9:35 am

    Wow, from MLBTR.

    The asking price for DeRosa is three years, 27 million

    The asking price for Beltre is 10 million a season.

    No wonder the Phillies jumped on Polanco fast.

  164. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 9:39 am

    The had a definite plan … the extension given to Ryan Madson, who in the 2008 playoffs looked unhittable at time..

    and was being called the best setup man in baseball .. after last season ALL of us were positive that he was going to become a Free Agent and try to be closer after THIS season..

    Turns out that Madson can’t close, but who would’ve known that?

  165. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Thats true. I guess it was more like their plan just totally blew up on them.

  166. bob

    December 4, 2009 at 9:47 am

    As great as it would be to have “that guy in Toronto” (im just sick of mentioning his name) our starting 5 for now is solid for the regular season. I like the top 4 and we got depth to add our #5. My guess would be July is where we’re gonna address the need for a starter.

    RAJ will plug a couple guys into the bullpen to help out Madson, Lidge and co.

    Things are good, 3B was addressed, the bench is close and now we turn to the bullpen.

  167. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Talking about MLBTRADERUMORS, I read a comment on there that brought up an interesting point about the length in Polanco’s deal: the fact that it goes past Howard’s contract, plus the option for a fourth year, could mean that the Phillies are open to letting Howard walk when he hits free agency (he’d be way too expensive) and possibly move Utley to first, and shifting Polanco back to second base.

    Makes sense, but woah… never thought about it.

  168. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 9:53 am

    I hate it when they wait all that time to fix a hole in the rotation though. There are decent cheap guys available now, besides, you always always need more than one more starter during hte course of the season anyway through injury or ineffectiveness.

    Whats so bad about taking a 4 or 5 million dollar + incentives flier on a guy like Kelvim Escobar, and give him a vesting club option for innings pitched?

    The same could be said for Duscherer. Id prefer Marquis or Piniero, but thise guys will be too costly unless they take pay cuts to come here.

    Plus, those St Louis Starters scare me once they leave the instruction of Dave Duncan behind. They seem to tank out.

  169. Jeff of Nova

    December 4, 2009 at 10:00 am

    I think we need to stop thinking about signing a 5th starter. We have a lot of talent in the farm. We have a lot of leadership in the rotation.
    I think we may see Drabek get a shot to earn that spot, maybe Carpenter, maybe not, but we have Moyer if health permits and we have Kendrick. no one I mean no one has 5 top of the line starters we have 2 frontline and 2 solid 3’s


    December 4, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Maybe NEWERA will carry Phillies caps in my size – 8 1/4 – now that the Phillies have a player who wears at least that size! LOL – all kidding aside, great pickup by the Phils – Palanco is a true professional.

  171. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 10:14 am

    UNRELATED: Baseball America yesterday ranked the Phillies’ minor-league system the fourth best in baseball. NICE!

  172. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 10:14 am

    Kyle Kendrick sucks

    It would be a very significant mistake to let Drabek pitch in the majors that early. You have to let him dominate at AAA for at least half the season. This is the best pitching prospect since Hamels around here, they have to do it right. Hes still very young. Oh, and that NEVER happens. Even if they know hes ready they still give him until May or June to bring him up.

    Carpenter got his around by the Nationals…enough said. Bastardo is a reliver.

    They really dont have anyone down there at AAA who is ready. Drabek may be, but thats too risky right now.

    The main reason they lost the World Series is that they got outpitched. I think that taking a chance on a cheap risky 5th starter type who used to be more than that isnt such a bad idea.

  173. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Manny… I was JUST going to post that.. but didn’t want to get into the Howard-leaving debate

    But I would imagine that they would move Polanco to 1b, at that time.. because I doubt in two years, he would have the range to play 2b

    So we have one of the TOP 5 teams in Major League Baseball… and we have one of the TOP 5 FARM SYSTEMS too ..

    this is a great time to be a Phillies fan!!!

  174. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 10:23 am

    I agree with a lot of the above comments..

    Kyle Kendrick sucks .. he is not a legit option for a team with World Series hopes

    Kyle Drabek.. needs to develop, maybe he pitches himself onto the roster by July (but that would be a GOOD PROBLEM .. not something we should plan or hope for)

    Carpenter… will most likely bounce around between AAA and MLB, bounce from Starter to Reliever … I don’t expect anything form him in a Phillies career

    Bastardo.. has only two pitches that he can really throw.. he’s JC ROMERO in a year or two

    With their bench pretty much settled, and their 3b search done … they know have a lot of money to go get some arms.

    I definitely see them getting someone with “Closer” potential… and someone with “Starter” potential … but the Starter won’t be a big name, because they don’t need a big name, and it would be a pure waste of money to overspend on a #5 … especially with Drabek on his way

  175. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 10:37 am

    I see them signing Lyon and/or Betancourt. Theyre not afraid of the Type A thing, especially with Polanco not costing a draft pick.

    I really like the reclamation projects this offseason though in terms of starters. Lots of guys to choose from who would likely accept a one year deal with low base plus incentives and maybe a club option for a second year.

  176. George

    December 4, 2009 at 11:03 am

    Kendrick might “suck,” but he’s been on three division winners so far. It’s nice to dream of having a Halladay or Sabathia as your number five, but reality says you get what you can afford. The 5th starter is a depth position; Kendrick is depth in spite of probably limited skills. I refuse to trash a young man with major league experience who has been trying to improve while also undergoing the extreme pressure of a pennant race.

  177. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 11:10 am

    NOBODY said that wed have Halladay or Sabathia as a 5. Kyle Kendrick is garbage as a major league starter though. He barely played last year. No kidding its a depth position. But youve gotta send something out there thats better than Kendrick or Adam Eaton! The 5th starter should not be an automatic loss.

  178. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 11:28 am

    It’s a stretch to say that Kyle Kendrick had ANYTHING to do with us winning in 2008 or 2009

    He had a nice year in 2007..

  179. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Betancourt is a type A and costs a draft pick. Lyon is a type B and does not cost a pick. I doubt the Phillies would be willing to surrender a pick for a middle reliever when they filled the 3B hole without surrendering a pick. Also, they gave up a pick for Ibanez last year so they may be hesitant to do that 2 years in a row.

    Also, Boston signed Scutaro, who is 34, to a 2 year $12.5 mil deal with a third year option to play SS. Which signing is better, Scutaro or Polanco?

  180. jrollpatrol08

    December 4, 2009 at 11:58 am

    george i finally agree with something you said on here.–” I refuse to trash a young man with major league experience who has been trying to improve .” kendrick is going to be a viable 4-5th starter in the rotation. his sinker is great for eating up innings without giving up the longball. he just needs to work on some other pitches because when his sinker flattens out it just gets crushed. its unfair to say he ‘sucks’ given his limited amount of major league experience so far. he hasnt even really been given a chance yet.

  181. psujoe

    December 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    I saw Derosa’s and Beltre’s asking price and almost lost my coffee. Anyone gives Derosa 3/27 they should be fired. Ditto on Beltre for 4/40.

    Kendrick is a nice piece, but relying on him for anything more is wishful thinking IMO.

    Unfortunately the Phils will get a couple of picks for Lee next year because he’s not resigning. I wouldn’t let a pick stand inthe way of getting a top tier reliever.

    I would love for the phils to sign Duscherer to an insentive laiden contract. He has excellent upside.

  182. jrollpatrol08

    December 4, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    and i generally agree with the consensus on here about a 5th starter. i am hoping that the money they saved by signing polanco could maybe be used to bring in a FA starter from the long list available. i like the names mentioned previously–duschcherer (even though he is young enough to command a multiyear deal possibly out of price range), definitely sinker-baller piniero, and kelvim escobar i like those options. an incentive-laden contract is definitely the way to go. i might stand alone but i think pavano could work out back in the nl if his price isnt too high. geoff–you described my sentiments exactly as you question moyer’s health, happ’s sophomore year and cole’s bounceback season…way too many variables out there i think we need to bring in another 5th guy starter…

    bfo 33 i completely agree with your analysis of the bullpen. you never know what your going to get–see putz, j.j or lidge, brad. as you mentioned, often times unforseen guys give the bullpen its strength (ryan franklin, heath bell). i really dont want to see the phils spend alot of money here because more times than not it seems like overpayed, overestimated bullpen guys perform at average/below average levels. brandon lyon might come with a decent pricetag as he is one of the top young relievers on the market. i just hope ruben doesnt overspend in this area

  183. Chuck

    December 4, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    If DeRosa gets anything CLOSE to 3/27 or Beltre 4/40….then Polanco is a freaking STEAL…..and RAJ is a genius..

  184. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    DeRosa wants 3/27.. HUGE LOL

  185. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    I wouldn’t even want DeRosa at the 3/$18 that we got Polanco

    I would imagine that Beltre will get something more than what DEROSA is asking.. and I don’t think I would pay 3/$27 for Beltre

    saving 3 million a year on a guy that is a better hitter, and not an injury risk.. I think this is the smart move. It’s not the “sexy” Free Agent deal that a Figgins or Beltre would have been.. but it makes the team better overall, and its pretty cheap compared to the above asking prices

  186. jrollpatrol08

    December 4, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    i hope beltre gets overpayed. i hope sanfran signs him to like 4/40 so i wont feel quite so bad about missin out on him. lets just hope that the money saved by signing polanco will be put to good use.

  187. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    I dont really think we’ll miss out on a .275 hitter with 20 HRs

    Beltre is good, not great.. and he doesn’t deserve more than the $6-7 M per year that a bunch of people on this site said before

    Beltre had a big year in the steroid era, and then signed a monster contract.. underperformed, and now expects a similar deal?? Beat it Beltre..

  188. Georgie

    December 4, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    I had a feeling Beltre and DeRosa were going to get more than alot of you guys were saying, didn’t they, especially Beltre, make a heap of $$$ last year? Why would you think they’d take a HUGE cut, just on the chance they might get signed by the Phillies? The Polanco deal is fine, I wrote a lengthy comment yesterday which is, for some reason, awaiting moderation (no swear words or disrespect), and I don’t feel like repeating it, but I’m fine with his return.

    I agree with Geoff, you can’t rush Drabek up, August or Sept at the earliest, I think.

  189. Chuck

    December 4, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Exactly what I was saying the other day…..it’s not a “sexy” move….but it’s a good one…and I really don’t care if Polanco is a utility player bythe third year….I can think of FAR WORSE guys to have in that role…

  190. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Figgins is getting 4 for 36 or so from Seattle….very interesting. He WAS being overvalued. BUT, he is still NOT worth 4 for 36, Im sorry. He doesnt bring enough to the table for THIS team to warrant 9M a year. Ill still take Polanco for 6.

  191. George

    December 4, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    One note about Beltre: If he doesn’t get the contract he wants, he can still accept arbitration, and can’t suffer more than a 20% pay cut. That’s still more than 10 million per, if his last contract figure is what I’ve read that it is. There would have been no way for the Phils to sign him cheaper, unless they were willing to give him five years at least.

    The Phils don’t have the kind of money it takes to sign a name starter, unless he’s a huge health risk. There’s a need for bullpen pieces. Park and Eyre could cost 4 million, and an arm like Betancourt’s probably even more. Just a contract for Durbin or Condrey will cost a million at least. That doesn’t leave much. I was being sarcastic when I mentioned Halladay and Sabathia, because even the other names being floated here are going to be pricey, and aren’t what Amaro will be looking for. In spite of a rather low quality ’08, and an ’09 mostly in the minors, Kendrick is not an automatic loss, and is an option that should and will be considered. To say he “sucks” is premature, given his obvious strides at the close of this season. Everyone wants a groundball pitcher, and that’s what Kendrick is, even if he may never be the best.

  192. Jesus

    December 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    I think people are really under valuing Beltre as a player. I keep reading things like injury prone/risk, only one good year, strikes out too much, and things along those lines. All of these things are all easily debatable, but the one thing that is not debatable is Beltre is one of the best fielders in the game and would save countless runs with his glove. Right now Polanco is not a given to play great defense. To make it simple, will Polanco generate more runs with his bat and save more runs with his glove than Beltre would have? To me that’s a no.

  193. Jeff of Nova

    December 4, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Geoff, I have to disagree with your thoughts on Drabek.

    If he comes into training camp and blows the doors off people, which he is very capable. Now is the best time to bring him up. When we had Cole at this point, We had 0 depth or real talent and number 1 starter. He was thrust into that role.

    Kyle will be able to pitch with no pressure. If we wait till next year, we may back where we were last year with our staff if we cannot resign Cliff. So then If Cole doesn’t fix his funk, then the pressure will mount on the other none number 1’s or the ones that could be a number 1 aka Kyle

    NOw I am not saying that Drabek needs to be our no.5 this year and he very well most likely be in AAA most of the year, but this mentality of don’t rush don’t rush is garbage. I don’t think the Phillies rush any of these guys with the exception of Gavin Floyd, and at that time they had no choice but to rush cause they had no one.

    This system now has there stuff together they have been great with the young guys and I have complete faith they will handle this well.

    I gained major faith in the organization with the Ibanez signing I was very critical of that cause of his age and batting left, but obviously they know the ins and outs of these players personalities, potential, and overall makeup.

    I think we will all agree it is nice to be a fan of an organization that has put a quality team that is in it to win it every year.

  194. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 3:21 pm


    My point was that just because he was making $12.5 M last year doesn’t mean that he is entitled to, or will get another big contract this year.. .

    He can ASK for one.. but when all is said and done.. I think Beltre probably only gets 3-4 years, $8 Million per year

    And he would be greatly overpaid even at that rate..

  195. Jesus

    December 4, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    George, I just want to clarify the arbitration process. Beltre only has until 12/7 to either accept or decline arbitration so that’s not that big a deal.

  196. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Um, he could come into ST and blow the doors off people and HE WOULD STILL BE SENT BACK DOWN. EVERY SINGLE mlb team does that with its elite prospects. If youre ready and they know it, they send you down for 2 months at least just to be sure…and so they can keep you until team for control for more years. Everyoen in baseball knows that. They all do it. See Matt Wieters last year with Baltimore.

    Theyd keep him down until May or June at the latest. Still, hes 21. Dont rush it. You dont want him to turn into Carrasco if he has a few bad outings..

  197. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    If anyone pays DeRosa more than $5 M per year, and signs him for more than 3 years… they are a terrible GM

    He should just go to the Yankees and play different positions every other day, pinch hit here and there, etc…

    the closest thing to an awesome player in FIGGINS.. who in my mind, is not a $10 M per year player …

  198. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Spring Training doesn’t mean anything… pitchers are working on different pitches, sometimes going entire starts throwing nothing but fastballs.. to stretch their arms out

    Hitters are working on tips, maybe trying different batting stances, trying to get comfortable seeing breaking balls again, etc.

    So unless everyone else gets injured.. Kyle Drabek has a 0% chance of starting the season in the Major Leagues

    I don’t want to see Drabek getting “welcomed to the majors, kid” in freezing cold Citizens Bank Park in April… my guess is they keep him in Florida an extra two weeks.. then send him to AAA, and whenever he’s ready, he’s ready.

  199. psujoe

    December 4, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    It’l be interesting to see what Figgins actually signs for. With all the Phils contracts they can’t afford 36 mil on an older 3b. 3/27 is still alittle steep and would hurt their ability to get bull pen arms. I like hearing that Phils are interested big time in Lyons.

  200. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    3 years for 27 mil for Figgins (which is reportedly what the Mariners may sign him for) is a much better value than 3 years 18 for an older, declining 2B who is worse than Figgins offensively and defensively (not to mention speed).

    Amaro got impatient and signed Polanco too early.

  201. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    But, um, its NOT 3/27. its 4/35-40

  202. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Sounds like it’s 4 years for 35. 8.75 mil a year for 4 years for a younger and superior player.

    Figgins at 8.75 per year is better than old Placido at 6 per.

  203. Chuck

    December 4, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    If Figgins shouldn’t get 10 mil per year…..then he’s really NOT an awesome player.

    I still like the Polanco deal….the guy can play….and won’t complain about doing whatever it takes to win…..he’s a gamer and a “Philly kind of player”….perfect for this team right now..

  204. Chuck

    December 4, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Let’s wait and see how this plays out…on the field…..before we start making statements like “Amaro got impatient and signed Polanco too early”…

  205. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Figgins isn’t a perennial All-Star or anything “great”

    For $24 M over 3 years.. Figgins can stay in LA with the Angels.

    So the Mariners trying to sign him to 3years, $27 M just won’t happen

    They’ll have to either add the 4th year, or jump him to 3/$30 M

  206. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I like the Polanco deal better for this team. Figgins disappears in the playoffs, is only really a slap gap hitter and once he loses his speed is a useless player really. Also, for THIS team, he has no place. Rollins is the leadoff hitter as long as Charlie is the manager. So paying 9 M a year for a slap hitting powerless 7th hitter is not wise.

    Instead, Victorino would THRIVE in that slot, being the best hitter on teh team in terms of batting average the past two seasons.

  207. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Mariners about to sign Figgins for 4 years / 35 million. So he’ll be getting roughly 9 million per year. Gotta expect Beltre to make less than that… probably around 8 million per year.

  208. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    I like Polanco back and he’ll be a great addition to our lineup… but let’s get real: Figgins and Beltre ARE third-basemen, Polanco is a second-baseman…

    Based on that, plus the deal that Figgins is about to get, Beltre might just end up with a 8 million / 3-yr deal (or 7.5 million / 4-yr)…… and that is better deal than the 3-yr one we gave to Polanco.

  209. Don M

    December 4, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Polanco is the best fit for OUR lineup..

    Figgins is better defensively. but is he worth THAT MUCH MORE money than Polanco?

    With the money we saved we get bullpen help.. and so our overall team will be better

  210. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Chuck, of course we will have to wait and see how these deals turn out.

    In the meantime, try finding any expert who likes the Polanco contract over the Figgins one.

    Figgins is a young, great fielding 3B who gets on base more than Polanco and is the best base runner in MLB. He is also still in his prime, unlike Polanco. For those of you who disdain stats, Figgins is a “good clubhouse guy” and a “proven winner” (2002 WS).
    Also, there is no way that Beltre gets 7 mil a year now. What team is in the market for a 3B besides the Twins?

    Amaro did a great job with the Cliff Lee trade, I just don’t think he did a good job here.

  211. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    People alwatys criticize Amaro for not getting the top name.

    I wouldnt take Beltre for 5M a year because he hasnt proven a thing since he got that contract. DeRosa is worth no more than 5 either. Figgins, eh he doesnt really fit the team. Tejada, no.

    I said last week, if they dont offer Polanco arb in Detroit that makes him VERY attractive to the Phillies. Like Don said. Much like Ibanez, POlanco fits OUR TEAM better than ANY of those other guys.

  212. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    How is Polanco a better fit for the Phillies lineup than Figgins? Figgins doesn’t strike out much either and unlike Polanco he is a menace on the bases. He truly is worth a lot more than Polanco.

  213. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Because you know that the manager will never move Rollins out of that leadoff spot as long as he is here. Like it or not. If Figgins isnt hitting leadoff, he isnt of much more value to this team than Polanco, who is cheaper and doesnt hit leadoff.

  214. Geoff

    December 4, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Knowing that, they really needed a good 2-hole hitter who can spray hits around the park, NOT ground into double plays. Also, Polanco is a career .296 hitter in the postseason at 81 plate appearances.

    Figgins is a career .172 postseason hitter with 135 plate appearances. Thats terrible. This is a playoff team again, you dont need another guy here who disappears when it matters most.

    Ill take Polanco at the lesser cost, thank you.

  215. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    So you’re saying that if Figgins hit 7th than he wouldn’t get on base,play tremendous defense at 3B and steal a ton of bases?

    No one is blaming Amaro for not getting the big name. But Figgins only got 2.75 mil and only one more year than Polanco. Value-wise, these deals aren’t that close.

  216. psujoe

    December 4, 2009 at 5:10 pm


    Figgins struck out 114 times last year. That’s more than twice as much as Polanco. I agree he’s a good player, but that’s a lot of KO’s at the top of the lineup.

  217. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Geoff, I understand your points, but Polanco is a DP machine. He’s a groundball contact hitter with no speed.

    Figgins was definitely awful in the playoffs though.

  218. griffin

    December 4, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    Psujoe, good point. Figgins strikes out more than I thought. I’d still much rather have him for the next 4 years than Polanco for the next 3.

  219. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    I agree with Griffin…. just step back for a minute and you’ll understand what he’s saying. Figgins is more valuable than Polanco… you can look for pros and cons for both, but FIGGINS is the better one. Just as some say that Polanco is the best fit for our lineup, Figgins was the best fit for the actual THIRD-BASE position that was open… You HAVE to admit that there are less question marks with Figgins coming in than with Polanco, who will be required to play a position he hasn’t played for several seasons now.

    I’ll say this again, I like Polanco in our lineup… but Figgins is a better player at this point. Value-wise it’s not close at all.

  220. Manny

    December 4, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    A-rod was horrible in the playoffs, too… UNTIL THIS YEAR.

    Hamels was amazing in the playoffs, UNTIL THIS YEAR.

    I don’t understand how the “Figgins sucks in the playoffs” argument gets so much validity on here…

  221. NateB

    December 4, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Who’s playing 3B isn’t really gonna change the amount of runs the Phils score next year (didn’t Feliz have 80+ RBI’s?). All of the candidates mentioned above were good and won’t change the offense too much.

    What the front office should have been focusing on is PITCHING. Look, the Braves just went out and got a top-notch set-up man and a closer. Granted, we didn’t want Wagner back here, but we could’ve used Saito in Philly! How about an article on why the front office PROCRASTINATES getting some quality pitching in the off-season, and keeps tweaking an offense that isn’t broken.

    Which Lidge will we have this year? Phils definitely need a back-up. Is Moyer still injured, or will Happ have his sophmore slump? Top of the rotation starter, please. How many more QUALITY relievers do we still need in the bullpen?

  222. psujoe

    December 4, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    I know the Phils didn’t sign Saito, but would you guys rather have Polanco and Saito or Figgins? Just an example, but I think that’s what the 3 million is going to be used for. Phils have about 11.5 million left and need to replace 4 relievers and a 5th OF. Not to mention we all want another 5th starter. That number would look a lot worse if it was 8.5.

  223. Jeff Dowder

    December 4, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    I’ll disagree that who’s playing third won’t change the offense much. You cannot look only at total runs scored as a measurement of a team’s offense. The Phillies offense is capable of piling up runs, we all know that. Those high scoring games mask the fact that their lineup is dysfunctional without a high OBP player batting leadoff. They’re just as capable of going through extended slumps when they struggle to score a run or two. They hit those slumps every season – they had a brutal three week stretch last year. Piling up a lot of high scoring games (I’ve heard this termed as a “bully offense”) makes it look like things are clicking consistently when you only look at the totals.

    In other words, I’d rather have the team that scores 5 runs every game over a 20 game stretch (100 runs) than the team that scores 10 runs in 10 games and 0 runs in 10 games (100 runs). Having a balanced lineup would really help avoid these deep slumps when the big bats go silent.

    To me, the difference in the WS was that Jeter & Damon were consistently on base and Rollins & Victorino were not. That’s why some of us wanted Figgins and his (.400) OBP on this team.

  224. psujoe

    December 4, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    I should add that Polanco is historically much better against lefties than Figgins. His average is 50 points higher against lefties and similar against righties. It comes down to how much Placido has in the tank.

  225. shag beta sigma delta

    December 4, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    IMO it is not the offense that this deal that is in question. PP will be a better hitter then Pedro. The wait and see of this deal is defensively, will PP be an above average defender at 3rd base. Hopefully he will be batting second to move JRoll over when he gets on, and set up the RBI machines of Chase, Ryan, Jayson, and Raul.
    Also if he is played some at second and SS to give Chase and Jimmy more rest, the offensive slumps might not be as bad.
    I agree that he does give more flexibility to the line up then either Figgins or Beltre would. But I really do not think we needed that much of an upgrade for the offense. The Phillies need a consistent glove and arm at third base.

  226. George

    December 4, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    To qualify my earlier arbitration statement, I know that Beltre has a limited time in which to accept. I’m quite sure that he’s already gotten offers, though, and if they’re not up to what he wants, he still has time to accept. People who don’t think he’ll get as much as Figgins may or may not be right. Some teams need the power more than the situational hitting and speed. At any rate, he’ll cost a team more than Polanco.

    People forget that teams have budgets, and sometimes must jump on what has all appearances of being the most affordable option. Sometimes teams have to pay a little more than seems right to avoid losing that lower cost option.

    The Phils could not have afforded Figgins and probably not Beltre because they need pitching. Amaro signed the best candidate for the money that he could afford. Now he can sign better bullpen arms, and maybe a better back-end starter. Even one small million can go a long way.

  227. Philsgirl

    December 5, 2009 at 5:44 am

    AMEN Nate B. and some of you other guys out there who are wondering why no one’s talking about the elephant in the room. Is anyone really going to argue that our Achilles heel last year wasn’t PITCHING?

    Okay, so the front office wanted first order of business to be “shake up” offense a little (?!); I guess if I was forced at gunpoint to name a position, then 3B would be the only place to do that, although truthfully (playoffs aside), Feliz was not too shabby in hitting with RISP, another of our sore spots, and was really vastly underrated defensively. I know it’s one thing to produce hits, but keeping the other guy from scoring them is sorta important too. I know Mike Schmidt sang Pedro’s praises, and I think it was Robin Roberts that was quoted as saying he thought he was a better defensive third baseman than Brooks Robinson. Here’s hoping PP still has the arm for 3rd. ‘Cause when you’re on defense, one out, no one on first is vastly different than no outs, guy on first, (you get the idea), and if Pedro had the ball you usually didn’t have to worry about that out at first. Over the course of a season that can add up. *Especially* when your pitching is hurting. But now we have Polanco, deal *done*, and we’re still worried about what Beltre and Figgins are gonna get? Not a deal with us, obviously, so we still care why? So we can pray someone else way overpays for a good 3Ber and feel less badly that we started futzing with the offense (and our pretty much stellar fielding team) in the first place?

    It’s clear we were trying to save money, *hopefully* to be used on FILLING THE HOLES IN PITCHNG, but it’s not clear why filling those holes didn’t seem to be a priority from day one. Hmm, we could use at the very least a back-up closer, a set-up or middle reliever.. oops, did the Braves (remember that club that gave us a couple palpitations towards the end of the regular season) just grab a couple of them off the market? And hey, do we really think our starting rotation is fine the way it is? I wouldn’t let my kid down a flight of stairs if the drop-off between the top step and the next was that huge or the last step so shaky (no offense, Jamie; take it as it’s written, Cole). And barring an extension offered/taken by Lee next year, there ain’t gonna be no top step after 2010..

    I know there’s probably an overall grand-scheme plan by RAJ et. al. that does (and should) include looking down the road. And people talking about our farm-system being ranked 5th is a “nice” thing to hear. But in just a couple of years our core team will look substantially different – not necessarily, but likely – with less chance of having that perfect season. That window of opportunity is starting to look more like a port hole (or since we’re Philly, maybe I should say pothole). As someone recently reiterated, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it (too late). And might I add, if it is broke, please fix it this season?

    Okay, sorry to interrupt your regularly-scheduled Polanco signing thread. I just managed to wiggle out of the straightjacket I’ve been in since Nov 4 and there was no appropriate “Phils Rescue Floundering Pitching” thread to join in on. At least not yet. It’s evening med time anyway, so I’m getting escorted back to my room…

  228. psujoe

    December 5, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Looks like Figgins is going to get 4/36. Too much $$$$ for an already stacked line-up, IMO.

  229. Ken Davis

    December 5, 2009 at 10:54 am

    The Planco deal is a bad one for the Phillies. Who knows if he is really 33. Lets say he is. 3 Years at 33 years old. Crazy. He has not played full time at third since 2002. If you look at his numbers he has been on the decline for the past two seasons. I just think you will be dying to get rid of this guy after this season coming. Phillies now need to get Halliday in here for one year. With Lee, Hallady and this offense you will win another championship. BOTTOM LINE. This has been Ken Davis.

  230. George

    December 5, 2009 at 11:13 am

    The “Planco” deal must have been bad. 3 years for a guy you can’t even find on a MLB roster? What was Amaro smoking?

  231. Jim D.

    December 5, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Can someone please explain to me
    what the hell the Rube is doing

  232. psujoe

    December 5, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Nice write-up on the Phillies payroll and why there’s no way they could afford 9 million for 3b over 4 years.


  233. Jesus

    December 5, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Psujoe, this was a good post by D Murphy but it doesn’t give a future outlook on the payroll. The Phils will have a lot of flexibility and tough decisions coming up over the next few years. Remember we have Moyer and Werth and believe it or not Jenkins and Eaton coming off the books this year. That’s almost 16mill coming off this year. If we assume that Werth is replaced by Taylor and Moyer by Drabek that’s a net savings of 15mill just on two positions. To say that the Phils couldn’t afford 2-3mill more a year over Polanco just isn’t true.

  234. mikemike

    December 5, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    How can anyone say kendrick didnt have anything to do with there championship he won 10 i believe. and they won by 3 in 08, Palanco isnt y answer at first if howard leaves. its either singelton if he develops or taylor. as far a infield prospect right there isnt much down there except for gavis and maybe garcia. I really think the phillies will sign one arm for the pen and one more ulitly type. If they do anything in the trade market its has to be for a starter.

  235. jrollpatrol08

    December 5, 2009 at 10:32 pm


    i understand ur logic, jroll wont be moved out of the leadoff spot, so why sign figgins?

    but griffin has the overall better argument. the polanco signing can seemingly only be viewed as ‘successful’ (so far) by what beltre/figgins sign for. i would still take figgins, a younger onbase machine with more productive years ahead, WHO PLAYS 3RD BASE, great defense for 8-9mil over 6 for polanco. easy. its a no brainer. fans of the sport have seen polancos best days…not to say he doesnt have anything left…but his numbers will continue to decline as he moves farther from his prime. this is no surprise. you absolutely cannot say the same thing for figgens/beltre with the same amount of certainty…

    for the value, if beltre/figgins sign for only 2-3 mil more, then ruben definitely acted too quickly and misjudged the market. what are we gonna do, use that extra money to sign bullpen arm brandon lyon? please, anybody, tell me why that guy is worth the excess money that our position player did not recieve…yes, its no mystery that we need bullpen arms…and you know, now that ive had afew days to digest this move and cope, i just really hope the excess cash is put to good use…im relatively hesitant to throw money at a bullpen guy that could just as easily prove to be the next brad lidge

    either way, here’s hoping polanco still has some fuel in the tank!!

  236. jrollpatrol08

    December 5, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    nate i can give you 6 amazingly fantastic reasons why ”front office PROCRASTINATES on getting quality pitching”

    Joe Nathan
    Jonathan Papelbon
    Brian Fuentes
    Brad Lidge
    Houston Street
    Jonathan Broxton

    all quality pitchers. all top MLB performers in their positions. what do they all have in common???

    ’nuff said

  237. The Original Chuck P

    December 5, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    I’m a self-described overly optimistic Phillies Phan… I’m always justifying the moves that they make and I try to be the voice of reason when people are lighting the pitchforks but I don’t like this move for a number of reasons and I can’t convince myself that it makes sense.

    First, Polanco left here because he couldn’t play third… he has never played third base regularly… we just signed him to be our third baseman for the next three years without knowing if he can play third.

    Second, this forces Charlie to juggle the lineup. The 7 hole on this team is a spot for a run producer. Feliz had 85 RBI’s in that spot… Polanco is a run scorer… Polly needs to be at the top of the order but if you move J-Roll or Vic you don’t know how they’ll respond and you’re losing speed at the top of the order. We don’t need to shake things up… we’re the two-time defending NL Champs.

    Third, Polly is NOT a defensive upgrade by any stretch. Defense is important to this team… more important than adding a contact hitter IMO.

    Fourth, it’s a bad deal. We overpaid and gave him too many years… no one else on the market for a 3B was going to give Placido Polanco that kind of money for that many years.

    Fifth, giving big money to Polanco means that it’s going to be tough to spend money for starting pitching…

  238. Manny

    December 6, 2009 at 11:43 am

    I agree, Original. This move is way too risky: defense, length of contract, juggling the lineup considerably, losing speed at the top of the order… and it looks like we overpaid on top of all that.

  239. George

    December 6, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    First, Polanco didn’t leave because he couldn’t play third. He was traded because the Phils already had a third baseman who would have been impossible to trade. He has played third on a regular basis. It may have been a while back with the Cards, but it was pretty regularly. Second, juggling the lineup is definitely the thing to do. Last year, there were simply no real options and the team botched way too many scoring chances. Losing speed at the top means nothing when your #2 hitter strikes out too much with the runner going. Third, the jury is still out on Polanco’s fielding. While he may possibly be a defensive downgrade, he’s been a gold glover in the recent past and he may even have better range than the rapidly aging Feliz. He needs to at least be given a chance before he’s called anything. Fourth, there is no way to know what some other team was offering, or just how he’ll be playing in three years. Fifth, Polanco was still probably the least expensive option out there; Figgins has already signed for more and Beltre will in the near future. The Polanco signing leaves even more money for pitching, not less.

  240. psujoe

    December 6, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Polanco is costing the Phils 5.5 in 2010(including bonus), 5.25 in 2011 and 6.25 in 2012 with a 1 million dollar buyout in 2013.

    Figgins contract isn’t done yet because Beltre may accept arbitration.

    The lineup would look good with Polanco batting 2nd against lefties and Vic batting 2ns against righties.

    Polanco has played more than 300 games at 3b so that’s a big enough sample to know if he can play the position.

  241. joedad

    December 6, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Figgins already signed with Seattle pending a physical.

    $18 million over 3 years isn’t very risky in the Phillies world. Phils ate $16 million of Eaton’s contract, $8 million of Jenkins’ contraft, millions more with Thome’s contract and went to back to back World Series. Polanco is versitile unlike the others so the risk is minimized should he not be able to play all 3 years exclusively at third base.

    Polanco was traded because it was easier to move him than $10 million of David Bell and they thought Urbina was the missing piece in the bullpen. Back in the day, the Phils didn’t eat contracts like Bell’s.

    Polanco was the 07 ALCS MVP. Figgins choked big time last postseason.

  242. psujoe

    December 7, 2009 at 3:26 am

    mlbtraderumors says Blantan available via a trade. Really? Scenarios anyone?

  243. jrollpatrol08

    December 7, 2009 at 8:17 am

    polanco’s only WORLD SERIES he went 0 for 17, so figgins’ postseason woes i think are being overexaggerated. figgins now is an overall better player because he is younger and actually plays the position of 3rd base. as far as value, i think the mariners got a way better deal on figgins than we did with polanco. but i guess if you look at each team’s financial planning/outlook, the M’s needed to spend some cash on a big impact position player like figgins. with the phils other needs like bullpen/starting pitching depth, it may have been a good idea to spend 18 vs. 36 mil.

    i really dont like the polanco deal. but its been afew days and im trying to justify it, trying to find some positives out of this peculiar investment.

  244. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 9:28 am

    It looks like the Phillies will get Brandon Lyon – Im ok with that, solid move depending on price.

    I read about Blanton. The only way I could see them moving him is if they have something else up their sleeve. Why move youre only RH starter – it cant be to give Kendrick and Moyer a shot – just FORGET about those two names, sick of hearing about those two as realistic rotation options. Theyre not. Not if you want to do well at least.

    They would need to go out and sign/trade for TWO starting pitchers if they got rid of Blanton. So, I can only see it if they get another starter back in the deal or something….

  245. Manny

    December 7, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Dodgers are shopping Sherrill…. with Romero probably missing a month due to surgery, Lidge still a question mark, and Eyre still not on the team, I think it would make a lot of sense to add a strong left arm to the pen. Salary will be approx. 4 million.

    If they plan to resign Eyre –which I still don’t understand why we haven’t– then nevermind. He has been amazing with the Phillies in 08 and 09.

  246. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 9:59 am

    What I dont get is, will Eyre really cost you 4M? Even if he costs 3, Id rather have him…I dont get that…

  247. Don M

    December 7, 2009 at 10:12 am

    $9 for Figgins, for 4 years.. is way too much..

    Good for him that he got a nice contract.. sucks for Seattle though

    We already have two speedy slap-hitters in our lineup.. what we needed was a consistent, small-ball, hard-to-strikeout, Right-handed hitting veteran

    and we got him.. Our lineup is MUCH better right now than it was with Feliz

    Beltre would have given us fits because he’s just as streaky as the rest of our team.. Polanco is a steady bat, and we’ll all be glad he’s hitting #2 once the season rolls around

    Blanton was said to be on the trade market like a month ago.. Jayson Stark mentioned that when he was on ESPN 950, with Mike Missanelli, Larry Bowa, and Ricky Botalico

    They aren’t actively trying to get rid of him.. but they have made it known that he is not “off limits”

    Pirates said that Zach Duke and Paul Maholm are available.. I wouldn’t mind having Duke in our rotation… cheap, under team control for 2 more years

  248. The Original Chuck P

    December 7, 2009 at 10:33 am

    @George 12:32…

    First – if you can convince yourself that Polanco can play 3B at a high level because of what he did in 2002 with the Cardinals, go ahead… I’m not so sure (that was 7 years ago… you want to talk about Feliz’ aging defense but disregard the fact that Polanco is 34 years old). I do think that market had a lot to do with that trade but there was talk that Polanco preferred to play 2B.

    Second – you’ll have to explain to me why we need to juggle the lineup because last I checked we scored more runs than any other team in the NL. Not sure how much more production you’re going to squeeze out of that lineup. I will say one thing… guys that can produce runs are more important than guys that can get on base.

    Third – the jury is out on whether they overpaid (given the market conditions and who’s out there bidding on third basemen). Figgins is reportedly getting 4 years/$36 million… that’s a lot less than the $50 million projections that were being thrown out there. I can’t imagine Beltre getting more than that. If he slots in at 4 years/$28 million, I would say that Polly for 3/$18 is bad. That’s my opinion. Regardless, Polanco is not the cheapest option out there… that would be the guy that helped us get there in each of the past two seasons (and truth be told, he would have been my first choice).

  249. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Id take Duke or Maholm, but theyre both left-handed. That would depend on the Pirates asking price.

    But if theyre movign Blantong you need to replace those innings, presumably theyd try to upgrade over that….?

    then sign a cheapo 5th starter because they dont have one thats a real option right now…

  250. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 10:49 am

    Polanco is a 2-hole hitter. thats jsut what he is. Thats why hell be hitting there. Victorino does better when he hits lower in the lineup anyway because he will keep rallies going.

  251. Don M

    December 7, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Scoring more runs.. or being the best team in the National League is great.. but it doesn’t make you better than teams in the American League

    Feliz was coming off back pain, then back surgery.. and definitely lost a step, .. and he was already slow with not a ton of range

    Polanco is a better hitter, a better all-around player.. and for the same amount of money.. he gives you a better chance to win games

    I don’t think they would worry about being TOO Left-handed.. since Lee will most likely be gone after next season.. and you would be adding Kyle Drabek, a RHP

    I don’t know what the Phillies would really do with Blanton in any trade scenario.. but we all know that they like to have definite payroll projections, etc.. since Blanton becomes a Free Agent after next season, they might want to see what they can get for him. If you can find a younger guy to keep under team-control for two years .. it gives you $5+ M to play with for another player

    BUT.. I don’t see them trading Blanton because he gives you a chance to win when he’s on the mound

  252. Manny

    December 7, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I don’t think that too many of us are really concerned about Polanco in our lineup. He’ll be great there because he’s a good hitter and a better overall offensive player than Feliz.

    Our MAIN concern is defense –whether he’ll be able to play 3rd base. It’s been YEARS since he’s played that position regularly… and he’s 34 now… does a gold glove in 2nd base translate into a good 3rd baseman? I certainly hope so, but I wonder what is that led us to think that he can play good defense at the hot corner for THREE years. That is a huge risk.

  253. Don M

    December 7, 2009 at 11:03 am

    At what point will people start having faith in our front-office and decision makers??

    Polanco is a very good defensive player.. and as middle infielders are aging, it is a common thing for them to shift to to a corner-spot .. in this case, Polanco actually has some experience in the corner already.

    Will he win the Gold Glove at 3b.. probably not

    But overall, we’ll be better with Polanco batting 2nd, playing 3rd

    then we were with Feliz batting 7th, playing 3rd

  254. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 11:11 am

    I also dont get why people dont like the Polanco move. I am REALLY excited about their lineup now that he is here. He is a much better all around player than what they had, and hes a better option than paying tons of money for guys like Beltre or Figgins or DeRosa. That was a smart, shrewd move by RAJ.

    Im in agreement about Blanton. What younger, cheaper guys are around that can do that same thing that he does? Not many…but if they wanna do that, then thats ok with me…

  255. Geoff

    December 7, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Defensively, hell probably he just fine. Not super great, but he’ll do his job. Hes a gold glove second baseman…so hes agile enough to get to the balls hit at him at 3rd. However, all he needs to really adjust to is making the long throw accurately and crisply.

  256. Manny

    December 7, 2009 at 11:54 am

    “all he needs to really adjust to is making the long throw accurately and crisply.”

    You make it sound like such a simple task…

    Anyway, I’m sure the front office went over all this and how Polanco at 3rd would play out, and they probably made the right call. But, as a fan, I simply don’t have that blind confidence that others here have in that he won’t become a defensive liability. It’s just a question mark that I’ll have all the way through Spring Training… when we finally see what’s he’s able to do.

  257. Jesus

    December 7, 2009 at 11:57 am

    I have always liked Polanco. He was a good team player and never seemed to care about personal stats and would always provide “professional” at bats. With that being said Polanco hits into quite a bit of double plays. For his career him and Feliz have hit into the same pct of DP’s, 14% (MLB Avg 11%). That’s why I think a contact hitter with little speed, and not a lot of power getting up in age isn’t exactly a great fit here. Beltre has an 11% career avg for DP’s. I just think for 2mill more a year Beltre would have been a much better fit here. I will cheer my heart out for Polanco, but just would have rather seen Beltre in the pinstripes. I think he would have generated more runs and saved more runs than PP.

  258. The Original Chuck P

    December 7, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    I’m not that concerned with adding him to the lineup but I think that you’re upsetting the balance between run scorers and run producers… Feliz had 85 RBI this season in that spot; that’s a lot of production from your 7 hole. I don’t know how much more production you can milk out of this lineup.

  259. Don M

    December 7, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    It really should be a simple task for a professional baseball player to make a strong, accurate throw … so unless I’m missing something, Polanco should be fine there

    the one area we’ll see some problems is the short-hop balls hit directly at him.. at 2nd base, you have more time to adjust to the ball, but at 3rd, you don’t have that time

    Polanco has good hands though, and I think he’ll be fine

    I understand the worry about Polanco shifting to 3rd.. but I would have more concern about paying BELTRE way too much money, and the fact that he’s not a better hitter than Polanco

    Beltre and Figgins are good players.. but neither of them deserves more than $7, 8 M per season

    I want to see where Tejada ends up.. he was the guy I wanted most.. but I’m comfortable with the Phillies’ decision to get Polanco, and i think he’ll really help the team remain steady as the season goes along

  260. psujoe

    December 7, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    We still have to see the Figgins contract and how it’s structured. In reality the Polanco contract is 3/18 or 4/22.5. It depends on year 4.

  261. Brian of CO

    December 7, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    How can anyone say Polanco is a “minor downgrade defensively.”? I agree he has the potential to be an upgrade offensively. Slightly higher batting average, but to me thats not why is in an upgrade, the lack of strikeouts is an upgrade. We are talking Polanco with an average of about 40 strikeouts a year or Feliz with an average of closer to 60 or 70. Last season Polanco has 46 compared to Feliz with 68. If hes not striking out, he is at least making contact. I like Feliz and all, but if he is making contact, he has a better chance of moving runners up, or hitting them in. As for Defense, I dont think there is a way to say he is a downgrade beyond pure lack evidence of it. Looking at range and FPCT, advantage goes to Polanco, but the question is, will he be close to as good at 3b as he was at 2nd base? At 2nd base his FPCT over his career is close to .990, where Pedro at 3rd is closer to .970. The problem with that is they are two different positions. I dont think anyone can say whether he is a downgrade or upgrade defensively. Also offensively, I would say he might have an advantage this year moving from the AL to the NL. I also dont think talking about “Raul Ibanez’ deal isn’t looking so hot after his second-half swoon” is a fair assessment seeing how his “swoon” just so happen to co-inside his injury (which I believe he also had surgery for after the season). To me, his “swoon” had more to do with the injury. I am concerned about how he comes back from the surgey and injury in 2010 though! I will wait and see how Polanco works out, before I pass a full judgement on the deal. I will say I would rather see a definative upgrade offensively and defensively then a question mark of an upgrade. I at least dont really see a downgrade though honestly. If they sign another for 3rd, this could work out wonderfully to be able to give Utley some rest at 2nd, and not be scared of what we will see. I know the Beard had the unassisted triple play, but beyond that how has he been? If there is another than can play 3rd effectively and be able to move Polanco to 2nd to give Utley some rest, with a pretty effective “fill-in” in his post, that would be nice also.

  262. Nam Lohse

    July 10, 2010 at 2:20 am

    I am grateful to you for this wonderful content. You truly did make my day :

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