Ryan Howard Inks 5-year Extension – Phillies Nation

Ryan Howard Inks 5-year Extension

By now you know; Ryan Howard will be here for a long, long time.  Howard and the Phillies have come to an agreement on a five-year, $125 million contract extension that could go to six years. It also includes a limited no-trade clause.

With this contract, The Phillies payroll will undoubtedly swell past the $140 million plateau that had been deemed the limit by the brass.  Many of the Phillies Nation writers are on different sides of the fence regarding this news, so our opinions will be up soon.  We want to know – what do you think about this massive deal?



  1. PhanInWA

    April 26, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    They better have money to extend Werth.


    April 26, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Great move by the Phils, he is still improving in the field and getting to know the strike zone. I am sure he would get 25-30 million from the Red Sox or other big revenue teams in 2011.

  3. Andrew

    April 26, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Sweet to have Ryan locked up…would be even sweeter to lock up a right-handed power hitter to protect him…

  4. Doug

    April 26, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    When is the press conference?

  5. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    So glad we’re keepin the Big Guy in the long-run! Don’t see any type of discount but that’s fine…

  6. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    I don’t know how I feel about this yet…I need to take a bit to let it sink in…

    On the surface I love that Howard will be a Phillie until he is 37, he can hopefully hit 500 homers by then.

    But I wonder if by 37 he will be able to hit a breaking ball and not K 180 + times a year.

    To me, this singing is only good if they can resign Werth. Without him, Howard won’t see anything to hit.

  7. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    To quote Will Carroll, “They just gave A-Rod money to Fred McGriff.” This money could be spent so, so, SO much better. Such as ensuring a Halladay/Lee/Hamels rotation for the next 3 years and dumping the excess into scouting/international free agency or ensuring that Werth stays for the long term.

    This is a travesty and a horrendous mis-use of Phunds ™. Also, why did this extension need to be signed NOW? Was Howard’s worth going to increase beyond $30 million AAV in the next 2 years? That’s highly unlikely.

  8. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Also you can pretty much kiss Werth goodbye. There is no way the Phillies can afford to extend him as well with this ridiculous contract.

  9. Adam S

    April 26, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Not a bad deal considering we won’t have to pay Brown, Happ, or Ruiz a whole lot of money for the next few years. Big numbers are off-putting, but at least we don’t have to deal with a Prince Fielder type situation, where bidding is outrageous. Rube’s handed out some iffy contracts, but I think that this one is good decision.

  10. Adam S

    April 26, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Who did Howard have behind him when he hit 58 homeruns? Not Werth. Gotta remember that Werth is the way he is because of this lineup.

  11. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Howard had a 30 home run guy named Pat Burrell behind him. Who will provide the right handed protection if Werth is gone?

    Polly? Brown? Ruiz perhaps?

  12. South Jersey Al

    April 26, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I’m not sure I see how there can be two sides to this. Absolutely love it. Keep a proven RBI machine in Phillies pinstripes for his career. What’s not to love.

  13. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    “Gotta remember that Werth is the way he is because of this lineup.”


    WHAT? This makes no sense whatsoever. You think Werth is only hitting this well because he has the animatronic corpse of Raul Ibanez hitting behind him?

    Also, can we stop worrying about “right-handed protection” for Howard and instead focus on the unmitigated disaster this contract is? Protection, much like grit, heart and scrappiness, only exists in the minds of delusional Old Timers.

  14. CZ

    April 26, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Brown is left-handed…not really an option…

  15. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    South Jersey Al,

    There is a lot not to love, as much as there is a lot to love.

    Would you like me to list it out?

  16. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Damn. Thats a lot to absorb. I thinks it important to know how the deal is structured. Remember, the deals starts in 2012 when a lot of money has been cleared out. Sooooooo. If the deal is backloaded perhaps they do have enough money for Werth.

    The Dipsy

  17. DrMagnificent

    April 26, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Publius pretty much hit the nail on the head. This contract is awful and crippling to the organization. Ruben is basically turning this team into the Mets……

  18. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Publius…much research has been done to show that protection, regardless of right handed or not is in fact a real thing.

    My mistake on Brown, I was just throwing names out there to illustrate a point, but Brown being left handed only further compounds what I was trying to show.

  19. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Dipsy…the value of the contract goes up:

    According to CSN:

    Howard, 30, had already been signed through 2011. His new deal begins in 2012 and takes him through 2016. There is a $23 million club option for 2017, or a $10 million buyout. Howard will make $20 million in 2012 and 2013 and $25 million in 2014, 2015 and 2016.

  20. Phylan

    April 26, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Ed R. could you link that research? Because everything I’ve seen points to the contrary.

  21. Morris Buttermaker

    April 26, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Great move. Ryan Howard puts asses in the seats, and will continue to be a huge draw for the Phillies no matter what his numbers are. It’s similar to Ichiro’s contract with the Mariners. He is a draw that makes money for the franchise.

  22. Mazinman

    April 26, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    We won’t know how good or bad this contract is, in terms of money give, until we see what Fielder and Pujols get when its their turn to be extended or signed to new teams. Until then just enjoy the fact that our RBI Machine will be with us for a long time to come.

  23. GWFightinsfan

    April 26, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    So would we rather just let our best run producer leave as a free agent so we can afford to keep Werth??!? 125 mil is a lot of money, but its what it costs to keep a guy like Howard around….

  24. BurrGundy

    April 26, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    I hope this means that the Phils are planning to win, even if it costs more than originally anticipated. They are filling the stadium, selling licensed items at a record pace and are the sports highlight of the Delaware Valley. Big contracts are a big risk, but I think in my heart of hearts that Ryan Howard is worth it. He is the greatest home run threat in the modern era of Phillies baseball or even in the entire history of Phillies baseball. He can carry a team for weeks with his bat when he is hot. He is an overall great guy and a credit to professional athletes. It is nice to see a marquee player and a marquee person all wrapped up in one and wearing a Phillies uniform. It costs money to make money and I hope the Phils’ ownership embraces this concept.

  25. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Ed’s numbers are right.

    It’s a big ton of $$, but I think we’re investing in the right guy (who shows up early for ST, loses weight, works on defense, and is always willing to improve his overall game). However, there’s a ton of risk involved for the organization (what if he becomes a Vernon Wells or Big Papi? can he?)… he will eventually be 36 or 37 and making $25 million! Can he keep those numbers up? Injury isn’t really the concern, but age definitely is… especially for big power hitters like him.

  26. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Small difference is that Ichiro isn’t overpaid at all, and also that outside of Felix, Seattle didn’t really have anyone else to help put butts in the seats. Philly does not have this problem. You think people would stay at home and not watch Jimmy, Chase, Doc or Cole simply because we don’t have Ryan Howard anymore? Also, since this extension starts in 2012, it would give the Phillies 2 more years to get another, more appropriately-paid player to build a fanbase around or see how one of Aumont/Brown pans out.

    Like a premature ejaculation that ends in pregnancy, this is an extension that came too early and whose cost is too steep.

  27. therookie300

    April 26, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    The reality was going to be Werth leaving anyway. The money was most likely not going to be available to sign Werth unless they can unload other people like Ibanez or Victorino. I prefer keeping Howard around here. He has proven himself in many ways. He turns it on when it really counts and can carry this team. Werth is really good player and it will suck if he has to go, but you can’t keep Werth at the expense of a once in a lifetime type of player. The last two offseasons alone can justify keeping Howard, look at the work he has put in to become a more complete player. It might seem like a high price, but that looks like what the market is gonna be for these guys when they hit free agency.

  28. jt

    April 26, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    now we know we got our 3-4 hitters for a long time now.

  29. Ryan H.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    great news. this contract will ensure that Ryan Howard will be a Philly institution. He will pass Mike Schmidt’s franchise all time homerun mark and will go into the hall of fame as a Phillie. He may retire as the greatest Phillie hitter of all time

  30. Ryan H.

    April 26, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    here’s a fact: Ryan Howard’s stats at this point into his career make him one of the greatest Run producers to ever pick up a bat in the history of the game. I think people really overlook sometimes exactly just how special a power hitter Howard is. This is a once in a lifetime type of run producer who is easily in the same stratosphere as some of the greatest of all time on the offensive side of the ball.

  31. Jon from South Jersey

    April 26, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Great Move! but this means the end to Werth and the start of a new era in Dom brown next year!

    JAyson Werth is not worth the money he is going to get nexy year. The only reason he is so productive is because he hits BEHIND ryan and in the BEST lineup in the league.

  32. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    This thread is going to be hilarious to look back on in 6 years when we’re paying Ryan Howard $26 million.

  33. DrMagnificent

    April 26, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Seriously, everyone is going to want Ruben’s head come 2013.

  34. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    We have all been told, and maybe conditioned, to believe that the Phillies do not make as much money as people think and therefore need to operate within a self imposed budget. I personally believe that baseball teams make more money than they actually let on. Reasonable minds can disagree. That said, if the Phillies actually project their revenue to increase to such a point over the coming years that this contract will not hamstring them financially so as to keep them from competing, then its a great signing. Who cares what the number is as long as the Phillies can operate comfortably with that money on the books.

    The Dipsy

  35. jt

    April 26, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    werth gonna want and will get a contract somewhere around 5 year $100M no way the phils give him that…i just hope he goes to the AL and it’s not the yankees…i gotta agree though too one of the reasons werth puts up such good numbers is because he hits behind ryan howard i’ll miss werth but howard can carry a team when he gets on a role.

  36. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    JT, protection has been shown in multiple studies to not be significant. Thinking that Werth is producing at his current rates simply because of the lineup he is in is, simply put, wrong.

    Also, by accounting for both offense and defense, Jayson Werth will be more valuable in the next 5 years than Howard. Book it.

  37. therookie300

    April 26, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    They would want RAJ’s head more if he let Howard walk…

  38. Phylan

    April 26, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Well they’d be dumb since if they can’t get a properly valued contract then letting him walk is what he SHOULD do.

  39. Chris.I

    April 26, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    This was a GREAT signing…Whoever said we didn’t get Howard at a discount is out of their minds. Believe me when I tell you that Howard would of got more attractive offers than that anywhere else in the leauge. Werth isn’t ruled out ”yet”. I believe Amaro will do everything in his power to keep Werth in Philly too. I agree that Ibanez would be the one that has to be moved in order to keep Werth. Maybe Seattle would want him back

  40. Jon from South Jersey

    April 26, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    If you think this is not a good move your ridic….

    Werth produces because of the lineup he is in.

    With that said…If you go back and look at what the phillies have always done to replace past free agents you will see that they restock with younger players that they wont have to dish out a huge amount of money for.
    (example: Rowand walking for SF…..replacing with Victorino) Instead of giving Rowand a ton of money and over paying him when he had that career year before he walked; they replaced him with Victorino and payed him NOTHING for 2 years.

    Same situation; they are giving Howard the money he diserves and replacing him with Dom Brown who they can pay 400,000 for the next few years and get another steal….

  41. mikemike

    April 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    No one on here is more critical of the phillies. but signing howard was a good move. law said it was too much , why, howard is a stud,who wouldnt have gave him this contract, people we have a kid signed out of our system who is hall of fame worthy and we are not happen he will prolbemly retire a phillie> why?

  42. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    I don’t know how I really feel. I love the guy…..but it’s a ot of money for a lot of years. The upside is just exactly what Manny said above…”who shows up early for ST, loses weight, works on defense and is always willing to improve his overall game.”

    BUT….what about Werth?? Seriously, guys….this doesn’t look good for him….and the Phils desperately need his bat and overall style of play. Thoughts??

  43. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    “Werth produces because of the lineup he is in. ”

    Can someone please point out the memo I obviously must have missed that says this? Seriously, either show some proof of this or stop making this obviously-incorrect point.

    Can’t wait to watch Howard be overpowered by LHPs for the next half-decade, all the while earning a cool $25 mil/year doing so!

  44. Phan in the outfield

    April 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Don’t know if anyone saw this but Forbes printed it not long ago in an article titled “The Business of Baseball”. This is the link to the chart w/the full list.


    Team Cur.Val $mil Rev $mil Op Inc $mil
    1. Yankees 1,600 441 24.9
    2. Bo Sox 870 266 40.0
    3. Mets 858 268 26.2
    4. LA Dodg 727 247 33.1
    5. Cubs 726 246 25.5
    6. Phillies 537 233 14.5

  45. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Publius –

    Who are you?

    The Dipsy

  46. Phan in the outfield

    April 26, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Sorry that printed out messed up.

    The 1st number is Current Value in millions.
    The 2nd number is Revenue in millions.
    The 3rd number is Operating Income in millions.

    Teams are listed in order of Current Value In Millions.

  47. Phylan

    April 26, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Werth’s production has nothing to do with the lineup he is in, unless you’re talking about runs scored and RBI, at which point I give no f*ck

  48. Jon from South Jersey

    April 26, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    i mean all you have to do is look at his numbers…he will be overpaid.

  49. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Werth produces because of the lineup he’s in….AND…..because he’s a crazy-good player. He’s one of these “late-bloomers”…..and the Phils are lucky to have him for now. Hopefully, they can find a way…..

    Got that, Publius?

  50. Adam

    April 26, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    This is a solid move. A ton of salary will be cleared out (Lidge, Moyer) by the time this deal kicks in. The fact is Howard brings people to the ballpark and is the key cog in this lineup. We take him and Utley for granted because we can pencil in like 70 and 240 RBI between the two of team all the time. My guess is that Howard’s deal will influence Rollins into staying beyond 2011 (assuming his skills do not diminish). There is a good chance that Rollins, Utley, Howard will become the modern day Tinkers, to Evers, to Chance.

    All three, assuming they stay healthy, will go into the Hall of Fame (I don’t want to hear that Rollins or Utley are not future Hall of Famers) with Phillies hats on. The fact we are watching the greatest 3/4 of the all time Phillies infield. Further, trying to keep him after 2011 would have cost the Phillies in the 30 million dollar range.

    Also, I know everyone thinks that we can’t resign Werth but isn’t Moyer’s salary coming off the books (8 million dollars)? That should help out the quest to re-sign a guy who I believe is one of the key’s to the lineup.

    The fact is, there is a solid chance that we could be seeing Rollins, Utley, Howard in a Phillies uniform for the duration of their careers. These guys are the core of this lineup and certainly attractive pieces to hit around for future free agents. If I were a free agent and you told me I was going to play in front of 45k a night, play behind Roy Halladay and Cole Hamels and hit in a lineup with two former MVP’s and potential third MVP, I think I might come to Philly.

    If all goes well, I hope to see Ryan Howard blast his 500th home run in a Phillies uniform in front of a sold out Citizens Bank Park. If only Harry could make that call like he made Schmidt’s 500th homerun call.

    I can hear it now: “Swing and a long drive deep to right-center….there it is number 500 for the big man Ryan Howard!!!!”

  51. Phan in the outfield

    April 26, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    I agree with Chuck about Werth. I outright do not understand the people saying we will go along, all jolly, without him. I don’t agree and I don’t think he is what he is b/c of the line-up. I don’t think anyone on this team stands alone, which is one of my arguments against this enormous contract signed well in advance of its need. Werth is the one who needed to be dealt with first. And btw, Ryan Howard (who I’ve always liked a lot) was NOT clutch during the WS last yr.

  52. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Chuck –

    Nope, that first part doesn’t make a lick of sense. Good players on erstwhile crappy teams (such as, say, Adrian Gonzalez) are pretty good indicators that the whole protection thing is stupid. Jayson Werth is a very good player in a very good lineup, but the second has no impact on the first.

    And if you’re using RBI’s as ANY sort of indicator of talent, well, then I suggest you learn about baseball.

  53. Phan in the outfield

    April 26, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    What Phylan said.

  54. therookie300

    April 26, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Howard gets his money now because he has a more proven track record than Werth and Howard is a HOF type of player. You don’t let HOF type of players leave when they are in the middle of big time produciton in their career.
    Is there risk in this contract? Of course there is. There’s a risk in any type of big contract. What if Utley’s hip didn’t heal correctly and started to eat in on his production? Then we would have money tied up in that situation then. Lidge was having a great year in ’08 and we took a chance and resigned him that year. He helped bring the title home, but the following year was a disaster with the injuries.
    Howard so far has a pretty clean bill of health, something Werth does not. The point has already been made, but Howard is doing the things that count after getting some big money already. Howard has posted monster numbers and I think he will get better before his skills start to fade.

  55. CZ

    April 26, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I may be trying to justify this move in some way because the knee-jerk reaction was an extremely negative one…but its been said a few time in comments above…RYAN HOWARD WILL PUT PEOPLE IN THE SEATS NO MATTER HOW POORLY HE IS PLAYING.

    Based on statistics alone its an absolute nobrainer argument – this deal is atrocious. I have to admit that I doubt that had a whole lot to do with this decision by the Phillies to sign him long term. Ryan Howard has been the face of this franchise from the moment he came to the big leagues and they started becoming perennial winners. Its that simple. The formula has worked and thanks to his work on the field up to this point in his career the Phillies can afford to make this luxery move. The numbers are too glaringly obvious to not assume that RAJ was well aware of the risks. I just feel that they were convinced that the stability from a marketing and fanbase standpoint was superior to the potential for a major drop in production.

    Howard has never and never will be as good as Barry Bonds was in his prime (juice or no juice) but I feel like you could make an argument that they have similar effects on the fans of their respective teams. When Bonds was in his last few years his production declined drastically but Giants fans would still go to the park just to see him play. Imagine in 5 years if Ryan Howard is chasing some HR milestones. CBP will be packed even if the team isn’t playing great baseball.

    Another point that could be made is the absolute opposite approaches taken by the Phillies and Eagles. One team locks up their own talent and loyally commits to them despite the potential risks involved and the other continuously rotates fresh faces year after year and even quite unpopularly let’s someone of McNabb’s stature go with years left to play. Howard vs. Mcnabb:two different ways to approach a veteran…which move will be most successful…

  56. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Publius, you’re wrong. Stop. Did you play baseball? Not that it is the most important thing but if you did that you would know that the guy in front of the stud hitter sees more fastballs. Thats a fact. Utley sees more fastballs. And Phylan, as articulate as you are, I would point out that runs and RBI’s are important barometers for judging a player’s offensive effectiveness. Case in point: Barry Bonds never got SQUAT to hit because there was nobody behind him to prevent a pitcher from doing it (i.e. NO PROTECTION) Jeff Kent? Moises Alou? Please. So he walked. And walked. And walked. Is it more prevalent in some cases that others? Sure. But it is no myth. I can’t believe I’m with Chuck on this one.

    The Dipsy

  57. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    I suggest you stop being so arrogant and condescending, Pubic…..oh, sorry, Publius.

    Protection is NOT overrated at all. Doesn’t matter. Werth is a damn good player that will produce no matter where he is.

    Ruben….Find a way!!

  58. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    The Dipsy –

    Wait a second, you’re using Barry Bonds’ absurd lines with the Giants as “proof” that protection exists? Barry Bonds that got on base ALMOST HALF OF THE TIME he went up to bat?! If Ryan Howard had Bonds’ plate patience and could get on base at a clip even CLOSE to that I would love this signing.

    But he can’t. And because he can’t, pitchers will still challenge him (ESPECIALLY LHPs), regardless of who is batting behind him. Sure, Howard will hit the ball far occaisionally, but not nearly enough, nor get on base enough, to justify this elephant of a contract.

    And Dipsy I played baseball through college, so don’t play that card. I’m surprised they gave someone so naive that believes in protection a regular spot on this blog.

  59. Phylan

    April 26, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    And you’d be wrong, Dipsy.

  60. Publius

    April 26, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    The Dipsy –

    Just messin’ bout that last thing, I do enjoy your little commentaries. Sarcasm doesn’t come across well online.

    Also, let’s just stop the protection de-rail, which I’ve contributed to, and just get back to whether people honestly think Howard is worth this much.

  61. Derek L

    April 26, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Bye bye Jayson Werth, I’ll miss your badassishness

  62. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I can’t believe that there are actually people out there that believe that protection is some sort of myth. To me, that’s just basic baseball knowledge.

    Does it work better for some than others?? Absolutely. But to say it is a myth is ridiculous.

    Utley seeing more fastballs is as good an example as there is right here in front of us.

  63. phillyboy

    April 26, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    ryan deserves every single penny CASE CLOSED!!!!!!

  64. Jon from South Jersey

    April 26, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    i guess you were the ball boy through college….

  65. BurrGundy

    April 26, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    The Phils will sign Werth, just wait and see. He will get a nice contract because a few of the fat owners decided “What the Hell. Let’s win for at least another six more years.” I believe that they know they have a tremendous fan base in Philly and they know that we have become addicted to winning, and that we will support the team. Look at the attendance.
    I agree with Dipsy when he said that baseball is a lot more lucrative than a lot of the owners let on. And the Delaware Valley is a GOLD MINE of over
    10 million people — going from the Lehigh Vallley out to Reading , down to Wilmington and over the Atlantic City and up to Trenton. That is a lot of potential asses in the seats. We are the third largest media center in the entire country. Television and Pay-Per-View will add to the Phillies coffers.
    We need to compete with the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs. We have the fanbase, the team and the committment to spend the money. The Howard signing, the Halladay signing are two very good signs of a winning future. I do not believe ownership is going to approach this half-assed. Somebody has sold ownership the NEED for COMMITTMENT to WIN.

  66. Colt Hammell stinks

    April 26, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    It’s pretty obvious that Publius really knows baseball. Apparently he has no social life or job to attend to, and can reply to this thread every two minutes. So he has the time to focus on baseball and bitching about everything.

  67. The Second John

    April 26, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    I’m on the fence about this deal. On one hand, Ryan is a great baseball player, and will be the best slugger in the history of the Phillies. On the other hand, it’s a lot of money to be paying someone until they’re 37. Also, this pretty much guarantees Jayson Werth is gone. Who’s gonna replace him? Dom Brown is left handed, and there’s no one else that can come close to the production of Werth.

  68. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    I don’t think this necessarily means that Werth will walk… If we can get him for 14M or less per year, I think RAJ an co. will bite the bullet and keep him too.

  69. drtyjerz

    April 26, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    ruben minaya, jr. got played once again- gave up way too much. over his head.

  70. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Congrats on the deal Big Piece. Waiting to lock him up later would’ve driven the price to 30mill per yr and we’d lose him to Boston. The Phils went with Doc over Lee and now it appears to be Howard over Werth. Howard has improved his glove. But now he needs to step his game way up in terms of reconizing pitches much better and stop chasing the low junk in the dirt. Will he ever do it?? For 125 mill guar. he better because it is infur. as h*ll to watch. Losing Werth is gonna hurt. This guy’s value to the lineup is way under valued. In 2008/2009 1st half you could make the argument that Werth’s numbers were a byproduct of the guys behind him. But with Ibanez struggling since mid-09, Werth’s numbers comes as a result of talent and hard work. Werth is so Philly, but he’ll be a Yankee in 2011 most likely.

  71. neil

    April 26, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    werth is good, but hes no howard

    sorry folks

  72. WorldFudgeChamp

    April 26, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    I see Ruall being traded soon and Brown to come up that is just me

  73. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Plus, a Werth contract would not be as long-term as Howard’s. We can now go after Werth knowing that Howard will be making “only” $20 million in 2011, 2012, and 2013 –exactly the same amount he’s making now. That gives the FO a little short-term flexibility (hopefully to sign Werth to a 3 or 4-year deal, which will not overlap [much] with the final years of Ryan’s contract –when he’ll be making $25 million.

  74. Scotch Man

    April 26, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Ok I’m sticking to the news that one of the great players in our history has been locked up and I am happy as hell about it.

  75. CZ

    April 26, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    I have to also assume that one main reason they did this deal now is so they can give themselves the best possible chance to resign Werth. I do not think this is the nail in that coffin at all. What did we keep hearing from RAJ during last off-season…COST CERTAINTY. Its not always so much about how much money you are spending now but how much you have locked up down the road. In this case they now know what they have committed in the future to keep three of their most important and popular players (Howard, Utley, Halladay). This allows them to juggle their finances and prepare in such a way that they may be able to increase the budget.

    They have done everything in their power to continuously lock up their own talent (I realize Werth was a free agent but he never realized any success before coming here) and se no reason why they would fail to extend Werth the same courtesy. If loyalty goes both ways and he would seek a reasonable deal I bet they go over $140 team salary for a few years to make it happen.

  76. Jamie's Babies

    April 26, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    I’m with phillyboy on this. Ryan deserves the money. He’s produced for this franchise, and should be awarded this money.

    As for Werth, who knows what will happen. We have him now, and he’s still producing for us, so why predict what “will” happen. None of us know.

    Howard was going to get that money regardless, and I’m happy we did it now, and not in the offseason when the asking price would have probably gone up.

    Congrats Howard, I’ll look forward to seeing your moonshots for years to come

  77. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Here’s a thought:

    RAJ signed Howard first to show COMMITMENT to WINNING to potential FAs, which Werth will soon be.

    This has all been laid out. Werth can see the desire to win on the part of ownership and may agree to a slight discount to stay.

    At first, I thought that Werth should be the priority with all the re-signings…but the more I think about it maybe this is the way to go.

    Still….this is a HUGE contract. I hope it doesn’t come back to bite us.

  78. Mazinman

    April 26, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    I’m not giving up on Jason Werth. Ruben made sure Ryan’s deal was backloaded and I think Jason is the reason why he did that. Now he can go to Jason and ask him to take a deal where me makes a smaller amount next year then the salary increases a good amount once Ibanez leaves the payroll.

  79. drtyjerz

    April 26, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    “I see Ruall being traded soon and Brown to come up that is just me”

    – even if you find someone dumb enough to take ibanez, we’re still paying for most of the contract or eating an equally burdensome one in return.

  80. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Guys, how much for Werth?? Think 4 years/55-60M gets it done??

  81. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    who said he was. we’re saying one w/o the other can potentially cripple this lineup. It’s amazing that Werth continues to mash despite Raul Ibanez’s prolonged struggles. Watch Werth on another team next yr and you’ll be singing a diff tune guaranteed. Victorino, Ibanez, Brown or a fa signing will be the OF in 2011 if Werth goes. The moment the season ends Reggie Jackson will be waiting outside the locker room to drive him to Yankee stadium and give Werth a tour of his new home.

  82. Chuck

    April 26, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Except that Werth HATES the Yankees.. That’s what I heard.

  83. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    I definitely think that gets it done, Chuck. I don’t see how Werth could make more than $15 per year, as talented as he is. I think the key here is to offer something reasonable before his current contract expires and not wait till FA when the bidding wars and speculation push the price up.

  84. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    YEah and Damon wrote in a book that he would never play for the Yankees…ever. That off season he signed with the Yankees. I don’t believe a word of what athletes say until I see what they do.

  85. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    so did Johnny Damon…Green has special healing powers. No honestly it does. I’m not saying Howard doesn’t deserve the dough. I’m happy for him. Just hoping we can keep Werth too that’s all. In fact, I’m gonna send my single younger sister to his house once the Phils return from the road trip to see if she can work her magic one time. Just imagine being able to brag ” Dude Ryan Howard is banging my sister and I’m cool with it.” at the next company picnic.

  86. The Second John

    April 26, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    If they resign Werth too, then I think this will be a great deal. But I just don’t see that happening. I think the big question is who’s gonna replace Werth if/when he goes. It’s not going to be Dom Brown, and that’s their only legitimate power outfielder that’s going to have the same production as Werth.

    Also, what’s gonna happen when Howard gets older? We are gonna be stuck with a contract that no one is gonna want.

  87. Dave

    April 26, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    In the 2006 Baseball Prospectus book, Baseball Between the Numbers, they pretty thoroughly debunk the notion of Lineup Protection. Page 42, if anyone’s looking.

  88. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    I’m not saying Howard doesn’t deserve this. He does. I also think that Howard will make $125 mil if not more for the Phillies just in merchandise, tickets that people buy because of him, the parking the pay for to go to the game and the food/drink they buy while they are at the game.

    Everyone keeps saying that X player and Y player having expiring deals so their money comes off the books. Which is true, but that really only works for you, if you can find replacements for those players at a much cheaper price. Moyer and Lidge seem to be the most obvious to speak off…so there is what? 20 mil coming off the books? Ok fantastic, but who replaces those guys? Mathieson and Aumont? Mathieson maybe but Aumont most likely won’t be ready. Maybe Carpenter? So then if we have to get a pitcher via the FA market they will probably cost around 4-5 mil if not more.

    I do agree that this contract shows a commitment to winning and a commitment to locking up the guys who have gotten us to this point. I could see Rollin’s resigning now, even though he did pretty much say in an interview that a hometown discount was not exactly something he was considering. They probably need to resign him because I don’t see anyone in the farm system who plays SS.

    Now Werth, I don’t really know how they can keep him. You keep resigning your hitters which is great but what about our pitchers? Maybe not starting pitching, Halladay, Hamels, and Happ seemed to be locked up for a few years. I believe Blanton is here for 3 more years. But sadly bullpen arms are not cheap anymore.

  89. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    There’s always Pat Brrrrrrellll…. He’ll be a fa after the season I think… Yeah….. exactly… The Phils need to take a fan vote on rasing ticket prices a little in order to keep Werth. Assuming projected increased revenue from raised ticket proces wasn’t the deciding factor in the Doc/Howard deals.

  90. Phan in the outfield

    April 26, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Werth said in a press conf during the WS last yr that there was no love for the Yankees in his house growing up b/c they cut his stepfather, Dennis.

    Seuss wrote an article in the Bleacher Rpt about how Werth has made it clear he wants to stay in Philadelphia. I think that’s true. But I don’t see why he should give a hometown cut now considering this contract.

    @therookie300: Werth doesn’t have a history of “not having a clean bill of health”. He had the one bad wrist injury (caused by AJ Burnett & bad doctors in LA). Out of his control. It kept him from playing for a while. Due solely to his own persistence (which we see in his play), btw, HE found a doctor that fixed it. Other than that any injury has been incredibly minor.

  91. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Repeat! – If you send your little sis over there, make her use protection cuz I don’t wanna catch anything. Thanks in advance for the solid.

    I think Ryan has reached the point where his value has transcended the numbers he puts up on a baseball field. While we watch the metamorphosis from fat, strikeout prone, non fielding, home run or nothing hitter, to conscientious, lean, hard working and more well rounded baseball player, he is also on the verge of becoming a civic treasure. You can’t let a guy like that go. Its bad business. Guys like A-Rod can get traded because their pricks but to trade a guy like Howard, or to let him walk, would be bad business. The P.R. hit would be monumental. Ryan has the “qwan”.

    Its a lot of money and I don’t know if he’s worth it. I don’t think there exists a metric to gauge how good a 25m guy has to be in order to earn his money. But I’m glad he’s staying.

    The Dipsy

  92. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    No offence to you Repeat! or your single younger sister but I think Ry Ho is good in the woman department:


  93. Phan in Atl

    April 26, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Hmmm, this much money being thrown around makes me wonder if Cliff could have been extended???
    Pray Ibanez can be moved. I know Victorino can be moved. Say good bye to Moyer after the season. 2011 OF: Francisco, Werth, Brown.
    Back to intended thread… Howard, along with Utley and Rollins, have to be career Phils. Today is a good day.

  94. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    I hear ya Phan, but that was then in the heat of the battle. His Public “lunch” with Reggie Jackson during Spring Training in which Werth said “That’s our business” is clearly a signal. Yes nwk announs brought up Werth’s name sevreal times during the Spring and this season as a potential great fa signing. The Redsox appear to be fading away. The Rays will be sellers this off-season no matter how far they go. The Phillies are the Yankees biggest potential throne their in side. And they would love nothing more than to dismember them by signing Jason Werth.

  95. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    Wait a second. Ryan’s goin out with a white chick? Damn…..I have enough trouble scaring up my own white chicks without Ryan dipping into the talent pool. It says in the article that she’s got 6 seasons as a Eagles cheerleader “under her belt”. Yeah, that and a few cheeseburgers. She’s a tad stout.

    The Dipsy

  96. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    That is an old picture…she is a teacher now but yes, he is dating a white chick.

  97. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Yeah you’re right Edr. Besides my sister would never ever be unfaithful to the Dipsy. Even though the Dipsy keeps pressuring her to get a sex change operation because he’s only attracted to men that look like Clay Akins. You should’ve told her that before u married her and knocked her up with twins. Now you’re stuck. haha….

  98. Ed R.

    April 26, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Ouch, that’s gotta hurt. hahah

  99. Repeat!

    April 26, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    My uncle used to run this smal Jazz club in Center City a few yrs back. Ryan Howard and his dates used to come in there 2x a month or so. He said that Ryan Howard always had a different chick on his arm and it always was a bang’n white chick. Not that it matters, blank is blank to me.

  100. The Second John

    April 26, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Dude, Dipsy, you just got put in your place.

  101. Jeff

    April 26, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    This is a baddddd move by the Phillies. There was no need to give him 125 million. Pitching wins. We dont have any. Would of signed Lee and Halladay then rode out Howards contract. He will slow down and we will regret signing him til 37.

  102. Brooks

    April 26, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Awe Jeff – do you really believe that the Phils would have won in 08, been in the WS in 09 and stand a chance this year without the Bopper?
    Get real, all of you nay sayers. Howard is one of the MAIN reasons the Phils are the defending NL champs and will now remain so for a while due to one Rubin Amaro. Like someone was saying earlier, he was going to get the money from somewhere and perhaps more but we have him now, for quite a while and its all good.

  103. The Original Chuck P

    April 26, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    This group is special… without them, Harry doesn’t make his “Swing and a miss…” call that you hear on ringtones and radio broadcasts. I wrote this on the other post… when they were kicking our butts year after year, I admired the Braves for keeping their guys around. Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz were 3 of the top 10 highest paid players in baseball in the late 90’s. All of them stuck around in Atlanta until their better years were over because the Braves wanted them and they wanted to be there… they stuck around long enough to win pennant after pennant. Fast forward to the present… we are that team… let Ryan walk and you don’t know what you’re going to get. We have three potential HOF’ers in our infield… guys that came up through the system and stayed here. It would absolutely KILL me to see any one of them in any other uniform. So yes, I’m extremely happy with the news… I don’t care about what Howard may or may not be able to do on the back end of that deal and if we win a few more pennants, you won’t either. So Rube took a little risk by signing Howard to a 5 year deal; the guy has done NOTHING to indicate that he won’t continue to get better. He has developed into a phenomenal baseball player (not just a hitter). Many of you thought that there was no way that we could sign Howard long-term and he was only looking for the money… I’m hearing the same people saying the same thing about Werth. I’m not worried… if he wants to be here (and I think he does because this is the place where he needs to be in order to reach his potential) the Phillies will do whatever they can to keep him around.

  104. The Original Chuck P

    April 26, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    As long as we’re winning pennants, the fans should begging to keep these guys around… I don’t get how you can see it any other way.

  105. The Dipsy

    April 26, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Hahahaha. Nice one Repeat! When someone drags their sister into a baseball convo, its just hard to lay off the sister jokes. I’m sure you understand. I begrudgingly admire the Big Piece. Its funny because I think he calls his girl the Big Piece.

    The Dipsy

  106. The Derek Lowe In Pinstripes Foundation

    April 26, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Seriously, shut up Dipsy. Your act is tired

  107. Ut-Lee

    April 26, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    What kind of college could you have ever gone to and played baseball that allowed you to leave believing that there is no such thing as protection in hitting with baseball. Case in point the difference between the American league and the National league. Facing a DH vs. facing a pitcher is much harder because they have to face another strong hitter in the lineup and can not pitch around a decent hitter to get to a weak one. Just as this is often done, if a strong hitter is hitting behind another strong hitter, the pitcher must try to get each hitter out (rather than pitching around) allowing a higher possibility for the hitter taking advantage of a pitchers mistake. I am not sold on the Ryan Howard extension, but you even with sarcasim have no room to insult any one’s opinions with your clear non-intelligence of the sport.

  108. loupossehl

    April 26, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    As boring as the dismal science of economics and business may be to most fans, it may be worthwhile to step back from on-the-field considerations and view the Howard signing from a business standpoint. Maybe, just maybe, the front office sees IMPROVED BUSINESS OPERATIONS as one way that they’ll make the Howard contract work. It would involve wringing more profits out of revenue, i.e., greater business efficiency, as follows …

    Earlier on, Phan in the Outfield posted stats from a Forbes article entitled “The Business of Baseball”, showing Philadelphia as No. 6 in terms of current value, behind NYY, Bosox, NYM, Dodgers, and Cubs. The other metrics for each club were Revenue and Operating Income. Overall, Operating Income – excluding the Yankees – was about 11 percent of Revenue. But a couple of clubs varied significantly from this figure. One was the Yankees, with revenue of 441M and op income of 24.9M – for an op income/revenue ratio of only 5.6%. In other words, for every dollar of revenue, about 5 1/2 cents found its way to the Yankee bottom line. Very inefficient, when compared to what other organizations are able to do. (And of course, we must trust the accounting honesty of professional sports organizations – and baseball in particular – to make my theory “work”. Oh and by the way – there’s the oxymoron for the day: “accounting honesty”.)

    But I digress. The other club that appeared very inefficient was none other than the Phillies. Their revenue was $233M; operating income was 14.5M for an op income/revenue ratio of 6.2 percent. And here’s where improved business operations enters the picture: if the Phillies are able to increase their business efficiency to the norm of about 11 percent, about $10 million more would find its way to the bottom line. That’s a “found” $10 million, every year, that can go toward payroll signings – what could be more Werthwhile? (I apologize for that.)

    In terms of greater profitability, the way the club draws now, they can’t put more fans in the stands. So to increase income (and, by the way, pump up that all-important “Current Value” figure, where the Phillies rank 6th out of 6) they have 2 ways to go, from a business standpoint: (1) increase revenue, and (2) operate more efficiently. Maybe, just maybe, the front office sees ways to do both.

    Another poster noted previously that the Phillies seem intent on locking up 3/4 of what unquestionably is their all-time greatest infield, with all 3 of the individuals in question probably headed to the Hall of Fame. Viewed in this context, it’s hard to criticize the decision of the front office. They seem to have made the decision to cross the Rubicon into the top echelon of High Franchise Value. If all this is correct – and I hope and pray it is – the Phillies now rub shoulders with the Bosox, Mets, and Dodgers as being the next level of big-payroll and perennial contender clubs, just behind the unmatchable and hated Yankees.

    The big bottom line is that this is not your father’s (or grand-dad’s) Phillies club or organization: those days of yore may, thankfully, be behind us.

  109. Manny

    April 26, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Fangraphs and their stats really HATE this deal.

    I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it… I really like that we keep him for $20 million for two extra years (2012-13), which I actually think will let us sign Werth until 2013/14… However, I really dislike the last year of the contract AND that ultra expensive buyout option ($10 million is insane)…we might end up paying $23/25 million for a 37-38 old player.

    Overall, I’m pleased that we get to keep Howard in red pinstripes for a long time… despite the fact that there is a great deal of risk involved.

  110. Crazy Biker Dude

    April 26, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    I say we hang him. Then we kill him. Then we trade him to Cleveland for “prospects.”

  111. BurrGundy

    April 26, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Howard, I believe, will be productive for a long time, despite what pundits say about his body type. Look at Jim Thome. I also believe that he has some lofty goals and understands that this is his opportunity to make history as an enormous hero in baseball.

  112. DrMagnificent

    April 26, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    I think a lot of people are missing the point here. This isn’t about whether Howard helped us win a WS or whether or not he deserves this kind of money. The question is is this good for the future of the team and the short answer is no. Giving Howard $25M the way he’s playing now is questionable already. Unless you honestly believe he’ll be the same player when he’s 37, this is a bad deal, and it’s going to prevent the team from signing quality players in the future due to cripplingly inflexible payroll.

  113. MikeB.

    April 26, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    I like that the Phils have Howard signed up but it is a year or two too many because of the risks involved with an aging baseball player.

  114. Ted Bell

    April 27, 2010 at 6:47 am

    I love Howard as much as the next guy, but this will end up being as bad a deal as the Soriano contract with the Cubs.

  115. bfo_33

    April 27, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Like most, I have mixed feelings on the Howard deal. The Phils are where they are (class of the NL, along with the Cards and Dodgers) because of Howard. He’s a producer and a likable guy (do you realy want Fielder or A-Rod as the face of your org?), and has already more than earned the extension. The Nat’l press treats Howard like Mo Vaughn, fat and sloppy, only a bat, yet each year his comes into camp in batter shape and a better defender. A gold glove probably isn’t in his future, but he is more than capable first baseman, and has shown the desire to continually improve in all facets of the game. Will he be the same player in year 5? Probably not. But he will finish out his prime in red pinstripes.

    My biggest concern is that mikemike likes the deal – it is the first positive comment I’ve ever seen from him. Probably why Halladay lost last night.

  116. George

    April 27, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Long contracts are always a risk, but that’s what it takes to lock up talent. Howard, in spite of high strikeout totals, has that talent, and given what other players are being paid, his money isn’t all that outrageous. He’d have expected more on the open market.

    Someone mentioned the Phils should have let him walk and developed someone else to take his place for less money, but 40/140 guys don’t exactly grow on trees.

    Also, the way Howard’s deal is structured doesn’t ruin all chance of re-signing Werth.

    Give this extension a chance. Howard keeps himself in shape, works to improve his game, and won’t be an antique when this thing runs out. There have been power hitters who’ve performed into their late thirties and beyond.

  117. mikemike

    April 27, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    I love how people come on here and say ibanez will be traded. Who is stupid enough to take on that contract??? pipe dreams. only way they can move him is if they eat most of contract. so it will effect werth status,if they stick to there budject. I can see mathieson and rosenberg being in the bullpen to help us, and saving money cause they are cheaper than danny baz and madson, but we need to have brown take over for ibanez,, and its aint happening unless we find a sucker.To take on ibanez contract.

  118. Brian Sr. of CO

    April 28, 2010 at 12:33 am

    Sorry publius, but you and will Carrol are both idiots. “they just gave A-Rod money to Fred McGriff”? Are you serious? Sure he strikes outs alot, but maybe you missed that Ryan Howard hit 100, 150 and 200 homers more than anyone else in the history of the game? More than you apparent beloved A-RoId (yes notice the I). Is Howard the best in the game? No, Sorry Pujols is, but if you think Pujols will get less than that, I have a great bridge for oyu to buy. As for Ibanez being traded? LOL. I think I have another bridge for those people to buy also. Sorry, I know the Phillies spending this type of money is a HUGE suprise, but I would be even more surprised if another team would pick Ibanez up.

  119. Phan in the outfield

    April 28, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I have no idea what the financials of the team are but the speculation fuels the conversation, right? But, spec terms of the contracts are public. Ibanez has a no trade clause, doesn’t he? Ok, I can’t figure out why – in the name of all that’s holy – this would’ve been signed, but it was, and it appears we gotta live w/this now. So, sh*t. Does anyone know about a reasonable way to deal w/Ibanez? I mean if Rube’s in a spending mood, well, let’s do it, buy him out or whatever. Bite the bullet and get it over with.

    As for the Werth sit, I’m choosing to think the same as The Orig Chuck P. JDub will stick. Yeah yeah, he had lunch with Reggie but he IS a family friend & like it or not he’s also from Phila,lol (he talked to Howard that same day too). Of course RJ was putting in dibs for the Evil Empire but JDub’s no virgin to baseball or the business of it. Nobody has more baseball in his DNA. He expected the lunch invite. He also has an idea of what he’ll take from the front office to stay. I’ll get kicked for this – but I think he wants to stay & will take a deal. I heard him on Eskin (I know I know) during ST. Asked if this was his last season in Philly he said “Until you asked that I always thought I’d end my career in Philadelphia.” He sounded kind of weirdly bothered. Of course after that he said he’s prepared for anything here or anywhere. What else could he say?

    Truth is – like him or not he’s arguably a 3 – 5 tool player (I say validly 4 tool). It’s stupid to lose him. He’s good w/the team & them w/him skills & personality-wise. Find a way to keep him.

  120. Evelyn

    April 28, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    love my boy ry. i’m not exactly sure how much this will affect the werth deal, but i spent a lot of money on my jayson jersey (and i still got it on sale online) and i would be horribly sad to see him go. i understand the controversy with too many outfielders, especially w/ domonic brown in the minors, but lets face it, its not too often we have 3 all-stars in the outfield.

  121. Shon Lambourne

    June 22, 2010 at 8:27 am

    I read your write up last week and I wanted to show it to my girl friend. I have been searching for this for hours and only now came across it.

  122. premature ejaculation control

    July 30, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    i hope u wont mind if i share your material with my subscribers as well.. this is brilliant stuff!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top