Halladay’s Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat – Phillies Nation
2010 Game Recaps

Halladay’s Quality Outing Again Ends in a Phillies Defeat

For the first 17 innings of this series against the Minnesota Twins, it appeared to be the start of a breakout. The Phillies had beaten Nick Blackburn easily in the opener on Friday, giving the Phillies their third win in a row. On Saturday, Kevin Slowey was rocked and lasted just 1 2/3 innings before the epic bullpen collapse in the ninth inning.

Before that unheard of ninth inning where the Phillies gave up five runs, a sweep was well within reach. With a victory on Saturday, and Roy Halladay pitching today against Carl Pavano, it wasn’t such a far fetched thought. That’s why they play the game.

Halladay and the Phils were beaten by Pavano and the Twins 4-1 on Father’s Day and the possibility of a sweep quickly became a series loss.

Doc was his normal strike-throwing self as he struck out eight and did not allow a free pass, but he was hit hard in every inning. Halladay allowed solo homers to Denard Span and Justin Morneau and RBI singles by Joe Mauer and Jason Kubel in the defeat as Minnesota rocked the Phils starter for 10 hits in his eight innings on the mound. His final line included just three earned runs, making this his third loss of the season when he’s gone at least eight innings and given up three earned or less. Bad luck? Could be. There is some room for the blame to be placed on a very unstable lineup.

That lineup today produced just four hits and the lone run was contributed by the now-powerful Wilson Valdez. It was the shortstop’s second home run in as many games. Kind of odd, considering it had been six years between the first home run of his career and yesterday’s homer. Certainly it’s nice to see Valdez hitting it out rather than hitting into double plays, however, he was today’s lone bright spot.

Pavano, who had been tagged by the Phillies more than once in his career, was lights out. He went the distance and threw 105 pitches, 76 for strikes. All day long he kept the Phils bats off-balance with a great fastball/sinker/changeup/slider mix.

When asked whether yesterday’s mind-blowing loss trickled into today’s lackluster performance, Shane Victorino said absolutely not. “Last night’s loss was a fluke, but again, you don’t carry that over into today, you forget about it.”

What did carry over was the offense’s inability to provide Halladay with any sort of cushion. In his last six starts, he’s thrown 43 2/3 innings, but has been given just nine total runs of support. That’s a scary thought. What’s also scary is that the Phillies are now 5.5 games behind the Braves who have jumped to 42-28.

If they want to catch them, they’ll need to start now.

122 Comments

122 Comments

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  2. teejvee

    June 20, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    I think the expectation was a little more than “quality outings”( code for…”eh? not so bad”),no?

  3. Pat Gallen

    June 20, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Halladay gave up 3 runs over 8 innings against a very good Twins team. If the offense scores 7 or 8 runs today, we’re talking about how great Halladay was.

    Don’t pin this one on Doc, hes doing all he can. What you should be worried about is the expectations of the offense being a little more than “crap” right now.

  4. teejvee

    June 20, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    There’s no pinning anything on him.

    It’s just that he was brought here to come up big in these kinds of games.
    Pavano ,for example, came up big-total shut down.

    Halladay did not.

    And he didn’t v The Yanks, The Red Sox, the Marlins in last 3 games either.

    It is what it is.

  5. THE DIPSY for GM

    June 20, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    One problem is that we don’t have any money to fix our problems. All our money is going to BAD CONTRACTS — Howard, Ibanez, Baez, and others. We need THE DIPSY as GM, and we need him fast. Only he can pull this team out of the fire. He truly would be like having UNDERDOG coming to the rescue. He’d kick ass and take no prisoners. He would restore pride to this team. Let’s get a movement a foot !!!! We need change. WE NEED THE DIPSY !!!

  6. karen

    June 20, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    lol…there you go. Today was just upsetting….I mean we all were standing there roasting and again, we saw our team stink. something yesterday…lidge?…activated the slump button again. i dunno

  7. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 20, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Even a new GM wouldnt be able to get out from underneath the Howard albatross (contract)

    Its so Mets like. Its 5 years. So in 2015 we will still be bemoaning it.

    Again if we are the Yankees it doesnt matter. But we arent. We had to move Lee for financial reasons.

    Whoever the new GM is. And people will be fired over this. His hands will be tied.

  8. A real cute chick

    June 20, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    I am all for The Dipsy. He knows his stuff and he would save the day !!!
    The Phillies need drastic change. We are sliding down a steep hill. Reach out and seek a hero. Why not The Dipsy ?

  9. karen

    June 20, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    i vote for the dipsy too

  10. joe

    June 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    shut up about ryan howards deal. my god. just shut up!!!!!!

    for the last 5 years you all praised him in august and september when he CARRIES THE ENTIRE TEAM.

    his defense is much better this year. he’s faster. in better shape. his average is way up.

    what do you want ???

    you people are stupid.

    i’m glad he is a phillies and i dont care what his contract is.

    on the other hand…baez is a waste. dobbs is a waste. and this team is not making the playoffs.

    AND ANOTHER THING.

    why do the phils play the yanks followed by the twins…while the braves get the royals?

  11. bostonkate

    June 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    The dipsy knows his shit. I’m all for him as GM.

  12. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 20, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    I am glad you are so stupid you dont understand how a team with a budget that over paying anyone matters.
    If you dont care about contracts you are a moron. We cant get other players now GENIUS.

  13. A real cute chick

    June 20, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Hey Joe, you are pretty stupid aren’t you. The deal did not have to be signed this year at all. He had two years on his old deal. Are you a freakin moron?

  14. joe

    June 20, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    what do you think they were going to pay him? 6 million a year?
    HE WAS ALWAYS GOING TO GET A BIG CONTRACT

    would you rather him be gone? and leave a HUGE hole in the lineup?

    the best players get paid. thats that. thats the sport. thats the world we live in.
    THATS BASEBALL.

    deal with it. and enjoy his 45+ AND 140+ RBI YEARS

  15. A real cute chick

    June 20, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    WE NEED THE DIPSY !!! WE NEED THE DIPSY !!! WE NEED THE DIPSY !!! AND WE NEED HIM NOW !!!

  16. joe

    June 20, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    they wanted to lock him up for the rest of his career. thats a bad thing? the POWR in your lineup is a bad thing to be locked up for his career?

    i’m sorry….whats the point of baseball? to what? score runs right?

    well HE DRIVES IN MORE THAN ANYBODY

  17. joe

    June 20, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    this is playstation. this is real life. and the players get paid.

    you cant have the 5 best pitchers and an all star at every position and have a payroll of 50 million.

    you cant just say, hey i want this player. and then get him

    THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS.

  18. A real cute chick

    June 20, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Joe, those 45 homers, 140 RBI years are over. He leaves more runners standed than any other cleanup hitter in baseball. Look it up. You don’t have to be a guy to realize when a player has peeked. Howard is on the decline, decline, decline, decline.

  19. joe

    June 20, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    peaked?

    you think ryan howard has peaked?

    i’m done.
    you people are f’n stupid.

    when he carries the team again, don’t cheer for him. BANDWAGON FANS

  20. A real cute chick

    June 20, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Joe, look at the Reds, the Twins, The Rays, The Rockies. Do you follow baseball at all? Or do you only follow teams in the Northeast? Open you eyes and brain. Learn the game. Don’t be a dummy? I know you are upset. Joing The Dipsy Movement. We need fellas like you .

  21. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 20, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Simple economics.
    If your budget is 100 million and you pay a single player 99 million that leaves you one million for 25 other roster spots.
    If the phillies budget was 100 billion. He would be grossly under paid at 1 billion a year. How dare someone calling themselves a fan say they dont care what players make.
    Stupid is as stupid does I guess. I dont care what he makes. I care that what he makes is going to kill the franchise.

  22. karen

    June 20, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    come on guys…this is supposed to be a fan forum where if someone wants to vent a bit…thats cool. this is frustrating. especially for the fans who know how good this team really is. I think there is a change needed….do i know what? no…..something. even something small like releasing dobbs

  23. Morris Buttermaker

    June 20, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    They have no marbles.

  24. Stanley the Steamer

    June 20, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    This team strikes me as a team without desire…. Too professional and not passionate enough. Too old…. Too many old players. Their starting lineup is one of the oldest in baseball. Not enough steam.

  25. The Dipsy

    June 20, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    My opinion is that fans should only care how much money a player makes to the extent that it might prohibit their team from having enough money to do the things they need to do in the future. Since they Phillies basically are printing money, and they are, I wouldn’t worry about Howard’s contract screwing up their payroll in the future.

    Rollins, Happ, Madson. Those are real good players.

    I have no idea why this team is playing they way its playing. I do know that Valdez, while a nice replacement, is nowhere near Jimmy’s equal in the field. That means Utley (sore knee?) and Placido (new position) have to cover more ground. Our fielding right now is not a strength. Last year we made the plays we were supposed to make and then some on top. Now, we are just average, maybe a little below. I think when Jimmy comes back things we really get better.

    The Dipsy

  26. Stanley the Steamer

    June 20, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Hopefully he’ll put some passion and steam into this team. I like this Dipsy fellow. He talks sense and knows his baseball. He may do well in a front office job. Though I am just an iron worker, I do know something about baseball and I can tell this fellow has a noggin on him.

  27. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 20, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    The phillies are printing money but they needed to have the Blue Jays include money in the Halladay deal? and then they dealt Lee.
    Hey wish it was true. Then Id not care what anyone made pay them all 50 million. But unforunately this isnt the Yankees.

  28. Brooks

    June 20, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Hey all.

    Sorry so down here. At the beginning of the season I was convinced of one thing and certain of another. I was certain that the Phils were going to win the NL East division, take the NL again and bring back WS trophy to Philadelphia. I was convinced by an early display that Roy Halladay would win the NL CYA.

    Now, I am neither. With a very mediocre record of 35-32 (after a sizzling start of the season) I can’t say I am convinced anylonger. The last 25 games of the season are vs teams in our own division. The Phils are 5.5 games behind. Yesterday they did everything in their power (starting with the first inning) to lose that game and eventually did. Today, what a pitiful performance. And today, once again, the good doctor does a decent job but due to a non-existent offense, loses a game that he should have won. Doc, really by no measure of his effort is now has a record of 8-6. He should have at least 3 more wins, a few runs would put him at the top of the NL for wins.

    To me it was apparent that Doc did not have his stuff today but still enough to give any team that can show heart a chance to win. He has done that several times and come up short.

    Look, I am still going to the games (I’ll be there vs the tribe on the 24th) but I have adjusted my expectations a bit.

    I know, I am whining. The dissapointment I feel is crushing. Sure, a nice 8 game winning streak will make us all feel better but, it doesn’t look like that is going to happen.

  29. Ted Bell

    June 20, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    You guys are right. I don’t think any team in the history of baseball has made up 5 1/2 games with only 95 left to play. I think think they’re on the brink of being mathematically eliminated!

    Brooks, stop by on the 24th for a complimentary Bubba Burger with all the fixings. That will cheer you up. I’ll be in parking lot K with the Webber grill all morning long.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  30. Brooks

    June 20, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    Thanks for the offer Ted!
    A few beers and a winning streak will help too I’m sure.

  31. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 20, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    Jamie Moyer has an opportunity to match Roy Halladay’s record of 8-6 on Tuesday against a weak Cleveland Indians team. I think he will do it.

  32. beta sigma delta shag

    June 20, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    5 games back in the loss colum is not out of it by any means, and the Braves have been playing a pretty easy IL schedule, I do think the Braves are for real but are they a .700 ball club no way, they may win 90-92 games but believe it or not the phillies can too all they have to do is start winning now. I think a against the Jays and the Tribe they have to win 4 out of those 6 should win 5 because the Tribe is just bad and should be swept beginging of the week, the Jays are a good team and being the home team at the bank will make it interesting, but you know what they need 2out of 3 from them then get back in the NL and be withing 2 or 3 games by all star break and then turn it on like they have been doing for the last three years

  33. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 20, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Jamie Moyer may end up again as our winningest pitcher. He has achieved that the past two years and we got to the world series both times, winning it once.

  34. George

    June 20, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Can someone actually explain to me how paying Howard $25 million a few years from now has affected the Phils’ ability to make changes this year? This year, he’s making $19 mil, and will be making $20 mil next year. Those numbers were already set with his current contract, and would have had to be paid no matter what. Maybe in three years, those extra $5 million will make a difference, but the Phils aren’t paying that yet.

    Also, some of Halladay’s recent losses can’t be blamed entirely on the offense. Boston beat his brains out, and the Yankees beat his brains half way out. Even today’s game, he gave up ten hits. The Twins must have lacked some good situational hitting to have scored so little with so much opportunity. Halladay wasn’t bad, but he wasn’t particularly good, either. It was the kind of start Blanton was making last year, although Blanton usually only lasted seven innings instead of eight.

  35. George

    June 20, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    I re-checked. Halladay actually gave up eleven hits today.

    He’ll do better, I’m sure, but his last three outings haven’t been very inspiring.

  36. Scotch Man

    June 20, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    Ryan Howard is easily the Phillie of the week. Not getting why some are busting his stones so much. Sure, he was crap at the plate today but so were all of them, except Valdez. The other day when he had 2 bombs and 4 RBI’s, I heard no such talk!

    Speaking of Valdez, does he stay when Rollins comes back? With two home runs, I’d say he has earned to hang around. As much as I liked Dobbs in ’07 and ’08, I have come to the conclusion that he will be and should be the odd man out.

  37. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 20, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Dobbs needs to go…. Howard’s contract, despite being activated in two years, is indeed affecting movement of the Phils today. Good, quality players will want committment — two or three year deals. Howards huge payola will inhibit those deals and strap the team in terms of both committment and future budget. We don’t even know if he will be close to being effective in two years. We did not have to sign him now. If anything, it has taken the edge off of him and this financial committment will prevent us from signing a Cliff Lee or another stud pitcher. The excuse: “we are already committed beyond our budget.”
    Let’s face it, you could get two quality players for what Howard is going to get paid. It’s just stupid. Howard is a one-dimensional player with little to no versatility.

  38. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 20, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    In fact, you could get potentially two quality starters, a closer and a decent set-up man for Howard’s future pay for a year. That is what the Reds, Twins, Padres, Rangers, Rays, Marlins, Braves, and Tigers are striving for.

  39. Mark

    June 20, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh…..really?!!!! your kidding right? why are they playing Yanks and Twins and Braves are playing the Royals?…..ummm I believe the Phils play the Indians next…it all balances out in the end…..complain complain complain…..”oohh we’ll bounce back….we’ll turn the page and win the next one with Halladay after the tough loss when the bullpen coughed up 5 in the 9th….the voodoo curse is working….this stuff is laughable. This isnt 08 and 09 people….this team isnt making the World Series every year for 10 yrs I hate to break it to you….its called baseball. Ask Brave fans who won 14 yrs of division titles in a row and got one ring out of it.

    AND ANOTHER THING.

    why do the phils play the yanks followed by the twins…while the braves get the royals?

  40. Jeff

    June 20, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Face facts people this is not there year. Roy Halladay is our ace and has not acted like one. I do not care that we gave him one run. He has to be the guy everytime we go out. I just want Jr fired. Howards contract for five years is terrible. We are still paying off guys that are not here anymore. We will do the same for Howie. Our bullpen was never corrected. Get rid of Lidge already. Eat the salary. That game was just pathetic. U do not lose with a five run lead in the last inning. The braves are running away. Good news thought. The NFL will start and we can forget about this year.

  41. Michael

    June 21, 2010 at 1:24 am

    Here are some points IMO

    1) Trades. No, a trade is NOT necessary. THIS TEAM GOES THROUGH THIS SORT OF SLUMP EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I remember last year and in 2008, the Phillies played absolutely horrifically during this time. As Pat said, its a looooong season. You guys know how this team is in july august and september! the braves cannot play this well for the rest of the year and their age is gonna come up and bite em in the ass once august begins. They are an OLD club. Trading Werth though wouldnt solve anything or a managerial shake up.

    2) Doc. Yeah, Doc hasn’t pithed very well since if perfecto. SO WHAT? how many more starts does this guy have? TONS! seriously. you all sound like the biggest bunch of bandwagon fans ever! this guy isnt a robot who’s programmed to win every single game. This guy just needs some run support. he’s pitched very well. Id like to see you guys go out and do better.

    3) Sarge Hats. did anybody else find them hideously ugly?

  42. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 21, 2010 at 1:39 am

    And Michael….you sound like a Stepford wife. You really do.

  43. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 6:35 am

    Halladay STILL wins 20 games

    Howard STILL hits 40 HR and 130-140 RBI

    and…..

    The Phillies STILL make the postseason.

  44. Mark

    June 21, 2010 at 6:37 am

    No…no….and maybe

  45. The Dipsy

    June 21, 2010 at 7:24 am

    While I am no financial guy, perhaps the Phils ownership is experiencing a significant increase of their revenue stream over years past and are anticipating the same over the next few years to come. Maybe they actually have enough $$ to accommodate an increased payroll in the coming seasons. Hey, they know how much money they have, we don’t. Given the history of Phils’ ownership, I think the last thing they would do would be to overextend their payroll. Given that premise, perhaps the Howard contract, while pricey, will not crimp their ability to make moves in the future. Thats what I believe. Amaro doesn’t sign Ryan without Montgomery telling him to go ahead.

    Are we seriously trashing Halladay? Wow.

    The Dipsy

  46. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Mark….

    For the Phillies to MAKE the postseason, Halladay needs to win 20 and Howard needs to hit 4/130-140. (or at least those two factors will help greatly….other things need to happen too and they can still make it even if Doc and Ryan don’t deliver)

    But you get my point….

    So since you think that these two guys won’t reach those numbers….then I guess your argument is that the postseason is not a possibility.

    Just making sure I understand you….the Phillies in mid/late June….right in the mix…… with 90+ games still to play are DONE. Right??

    ———-

    Dipsy….

    My feeling is that the ownership is maybe, finally waking up to the fact that they have something here….as in a BIG-MARKET TEAM. I think that the recent success, the constant sellouts, the fact that the team travels well…..all that serves to point out that these aren’t your Father’s or Grandfather’s Phillies.

    At least I hope this is the case.

    That said, I don’t want them to turn this into the Yankees, either. I still want to be able to go to 8-10 games a year and be able to sit in half-way decent seats.

  47. Morris Buttermaker

    June 21, 2010 at 8:28 am

    There is just something wrong with the Phillies this year. I don’t know what it is. They just seem to have no fight in them. From my recollection the only comeback win they have had this year was the game in San Francisco. They just don’t seem to come back on teams. And the body language of the team shows that they don’t expect to win. At what point yesterday did you realize they were going to lose Sunday’s game? For me, it was somewhere around the 5th inning. In previous seasons, the Phillies would be down by 3 in the 7th and you felt like they had the opponent right where they wanted them. But this year it seems like if they are down 2-3 runs in the 5th inning that they have no chance of winning the game.

    Also Greg Dobbs is horrible. I’d try to trade him for a few bags of kitty litter.

  48. Pap Thompson

    June 21, 2010 at 8:35 am

    There’s no way Howard deserves the Jeltz considering he was one of four players to record a hit yesterday — and what an at-bat that was… gave them a glimmer of hope in the ninth. For anybody who’s of the opinion the Phillies didn’t make Pavano work hard enough, Howard’s AB clearly was the exception. IMO, you can’t blame Howard for his throw to second either — at least it was on the bag. That play, and that unearned run, is on Shane

  49. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 8:44 am

    Some here seem to not like the idea of criticizing Howard and his contract. It’s not hard or unjustified to do so. For someone who has always seemed to be about the money, I think it’s criminal that he took that contract when a guy like Halladay come here for less. Imagine if he took less than he did, say $5MM/year less. Maybe we would have the flexibility for Lee. Maybe we’d have a better shot at Werth. All I know is that with all the money he has and will make, he should have given the Phillies a bit of a break. He didn’t, so we now have every right to be as critical as we want.

  50. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 8:57 am

    “Given the Phillies a bit of a break” ??????

    First of all, why should he. He’s entitled to make as much as he can get.

    Secondly, how do you know that $25 M per season in two years won’t be the going rate….or UNDER the going rate….for someone like Howard who is a perennial power hitter and RBI man.

    Seriously….people need to stop with all this complaining about Ryan Howard. Last I checked his stats are .290/14/51…..through 67 games with 95 to play.

  51. Wis

    June 21, 2010 at 8:59 am

    We need some tricks up our sleeves. We just keep unloading the same bullshit every game when we are in a jam. If we could put some innings together the way these twins did when they were down, we could really get back on track. our squad is just too predictable. the big guys are always swinging for the fence and it is not working out when it is crucial…so change it up..?

    Get some plan B’s together and look like your fired up for shit sake.

    The turnaround was ruined when we cheered for Thome. thats when it all started. I am all about respect and sportsmanship, but I never give my competitor an edge in the market place, I don’t care what my past history is with that individual.

  52. teejvee

    June 21, 2010 at 9:23 am

    The odds are very long against them making the post season this year.

    The two teams ahead of them are vastly improved this year and if either gets Cliff Lee, those odds go up even further.

    Other than the Braves, no team has done it 4 years in a row since the 20’s.

  53. Rob5000

    June 21, 2010 at 9:49 am

    There are still literally almost 100 games left in this season and you all need to chill the eff out. Let’s get the team on the field that we all saw on opening day. Rollins will be back soon which is a good thing. If they can’t break out with all of their big ticket guys then I’ll start worrying. For right now I’m just sitting tight. (though I’ve now paid twice to see Roy halladay and both games were losses… Which is disenchanting to say the least)

  54. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Chuck, you are absolutely right. People are entitled to make whatever they want. But what you CAN do is different from what you SHOULD do. This is a team game. I don’t understand how anyone can defend this contract. How much money does he need? This contract is fraught with risk and anyone who doesn’t realize that needs to wake up.

    And remember, it’s you and I that pay his contract. The Phillies may sign the check, but we are the ones who buy the tickets and watch the TVs.

  55. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 11:19 am

    teejvee, what are you talking about? The Yankees made the World Series from 1997-2001 and won it the first 3 times.

  56. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 11:21 am

    *1998-2001

    Sorry.

  57. Ryan Morrison

    June 21, 2010 at 11:36 am

    I agree with Rob. I think the problem with all of us is that we are hitting the panic button in the month of JUNE. I mean seriously. The Phils haven’t exactly played terrible against a Twins ball club that is leading their division and hits the laces off of the baseball. Meanwhile, the Braves are playing a AAA team AT BEST in the Royals. Yes, they are 5.5 games ahead and yes the Phils need to get their crap together but there is plenty of baseball to be played yet. Just remember September of 2007.

  58. Hot dogs

    June 21, 2010 at 11:37 am

    just when you think they turned the corner. I like Howard I think his contract will be in line when it increases, through the whole slump his numbers have been ok and last week he started killing the ball. What kills me is latley with the game on the line he is not having a good at bat. Saturdays blow up would be forgotten if he got a hit in the ninth. He took the first pitch for a ball wich was a good sign then struck out on three pitches out of the zone. Earlier in the game the fox interview with the twins manager he said they were trying to pitch around him in the second when he hit the home run. If he was more patient maybe he works a walk then we have three men on with one out. These are the kind of plays the 08-09 phillies made. Yesterday Shane did not need to throw behind the runner.

  59. The Dipsy

    June 21, 2010 at 11:49 am

    The fact that someone would suggest that any player should feel some type of “moral obligation” to take less than than the most he can get is ridiculous. I think the question should be asked in the inverse: “Why should someone take less?” Then you don’t have a real good answer. Some players consider outside issues when signing and that may result in the team getting a break SEE: Halladay, Roy. Some will not. I guarantee you Jayson Werth will bleed every dime from whatever teams he signs with. And he should. Whenever a players salary is way too high and/or too long and the player underperforms it, it is the team’s fault. SEE: IBANEZ, Raul, or a more extreme case is Vernon Wells. Go Phils.

    The Dipsy

  60. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    The bottom line is Howard had 2 years left on his current deal. Why not wait. See how it plays out. Now you have tied up 125 million for five years for a player in his 30s. Same with Jimmy. They picked that option up so quickly. Why not wait. He seems to be breaking down a little. Just do not understand. Jr. wanted Halladay so bad he stopped at nothing to get him. We might a great trade for Lee. Pay the man. Instead we give away huge prospects to get Roy and get crap back for Lee. Giving Blanton more money. Makes so much sense. We already knew this bullpen was bad and they did nothing to help it. Just get rid of Brad already..

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  62. Marc H

    June 21, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Saturday’s bullpen meltdown bothered me. This team’s flat, disinterested response both after the game and in their play the next day bothered me even more.

    It’s getting late really early around here

  63. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Jeff…
    I agree. TIMING of the deal seemed wrong. But who’s to say that Howard won’t earn every penny of it. Look…the guy shows up early for spring….works hard…..loses weight…etc, etc, etc.

    And his numbers this season are just fine. .290/14/51…..with 95 games left to play.

    As long as he continues to put up those kind of stats….and keeps himself in shape….then my feelings are that the contract will be fine..In fact, it MAY even seem like a bargain in 4-5 years. Who really knows??

  64. George

    June 21, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    The Phils could sign two quality starters, a closer, and a setup man for Howard’s $25 million? What in the world are you smoking, Peter Wrinkles?

    And I don’t think anyone is being critical of Halladay. MY point was that Halladay has lost a few games which could not be blamed on the offense. He’s an ace, yes, but once in a while even an ace has a bad day.

    I also believe that extending Rollins was a good move. Maybe he’s breaking down but maybe not. Even with his extension he’s not all that expensive, he’s a vital piece, the Phils don’t have anyone to take over the position in the near future, and an equal talent would no doubt cost as much or more.

    The same arguments could be made for Howard.

    And I’m awfully tired of hearing that Howard is in decline. Overall batting average: up. Fielding: improved. Strikeouts: down. Batting average against lefties: up. He’s also hit a number of breaking balls into the seats. There’s more to hitting than home runs, and Howard has always had periods when he doesn’t hit any for a while. He’s also hit several homers in the past few days, so his power IS still there.

  65. George

    June 21, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    One final thought:

    Yes, there is something wrong with the current team. So far, there have been injuries to SIX key players (Rollins, Happ, Blanton, Madson, Lidge, Romero), three of whom are still out. There have been minor injuries to Castro, Ruiz, and Schnieder. Bastardo, the secondlefty bullpen piece is now on the DL, and Ruiz has missed the past few games and may miss more. It’s hard to look confident with a lineup filled with subs.

  66. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    It amazes me that the same people that are complaining that Rollins shouldn’t have been extended are the same ones that are anxiously waiting for his return to the lineup.

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  68. Phan in the outfield

    June 21, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Morris Buttermaker: I KNEW they’d lose around the 5th. I got so angry at myself for watching when there was no bloody reason to. Last season, I never thought they’d lose until both teams were in the clubhouse. I still felt good about how they’d played, how they carried themselves, & how they spoke about the team, their place in it, and the coaches. They were then, and I believe they still are now a cut above.

    I HOPE I’M WRONG (it’s just a feeling) but there’s something wrong with this team and the mood that somehow extends beyond injuries or whatever. I can’t get a bead on it. I know it sounds ridiculous but they aren’t happy. It’s wrenching to see. Everything about them seems down: their body language, their eyes, their lack of indiv. confidence, their lack of ease w/ea other. They don’t even tag each other after a play with any real enthusiasm. If any guys can make me eat my words it’s them but I just don’t think there will be any comebacks this yr.

  69. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Wow some of these comments are really pessimistic and it makes you wonder who has really been paying attention the last three years. People are really overreacting about how far back they are. Let’s go back to ’06 when they were under .500 for much of the season and they had a fire sale. What happened? They went on an amazing run and were robbed of the Wild Card because of a missed call in Washington. Then in ’07 they trailed the Mets for almost the whole year and didn’t see first place until the last series of the season.

    In ’08 they were four back of the Brewers and four and a half back of the Mets and we know how that season ended. Last year on July 1st they were two games over .500 when the Mets came to CBP. Does this team have some issues? Yes, but so does every team in baseball. The Braves aren’t going to hit like this for much longer and the Mets’ patchwork rotation is coming back down to earth.

    The easy fixes for this team are getting rid of Dobbs and re-calling Mayberry, find another arm for the pen and dumping Baez(Mathieson deserves a longer look than what he was given, also another lefty wouldn’t hurt), and finally Happ and Rollins need to come back healthy and stabilize the rotation and lineup. This team is going to be fine and they are still the most talented team in the NL.

  70. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    George-The losses to Boston and New York are the only games Halladay lost this year that I wouldn’t blame on the offense.

  71. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    What scares me about Halladay is, he is getting crushed against good teams. Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, etc. He is our star ace. Should not happen. I will tell you I still have not gotten over that game Saturday. 5 RUNS IN THE 9TH. Are you kidding me. Horrible. We should of beaten up on the Twins. Could of stayed right with the Braves. Terrible.

  72. Phan in the outfield

    June 21, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    The Braves are playing for Cox’s last season. The freaking Mets – please – yeah okay, they’re bound to tank at some point. But the truth is they both have softer scheds than us. They also have owners willing to spend through the roof too.

    I agree with Matt M – the Phils are one of the, if not the most talented team in baseball. The line-up is coveted by other coaches. And I don’t think that some major shake-up should happen in order to “fix” whatever problem is wrong here. But there seems to be a real issue somewhere that this team is unfamiliar with. Can they fix it? Sure. Will they? Probably. Will they do it in enough time to win the division? That’s another question entirely. But I do think there’s something in them that enjoys being considered the “underdogs”. So maybe that will help.

  73. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Jeff…we have had PLENTY of games like that over the years. ALL TEAMS DO. Yes…it was frustrating….but not a deal-breaker.

    I would hardly call Halladay getting “crushed” yesterday. 8 innings pitches, 8 K’s and 3 ER is NOT being crushed.

    The Phillies couldn’t hit Pavano yesterday (give him props…he pitched a good game). If the Phillies score 5 runs it’s a different story.

  74. The Dipsy

    June 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Crushed?

    The Dipsy

  75. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    One thing I’ve been trying to look for but can’t find is how the Phillies play defensively behind Halladay compared to the other pitchers on the staff. And I’m not just talking about fielding% but some of the advanced numbers for them. It seems like they make some really stupid plays and don’t get to as many balls when Halladay pitches.

  76. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I guess by some of the comments on here we should really consider trading Halladay by the deadline. He’s certainly not living up to what was advertised. He probably won’t win 30 games now (only 20). And he getting “crushed” by good teams (you know…giving up 3 runs in 8 innings).

    Oh God!! The sky is falling!!!!!!!

  77. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 21, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Didn’t Christ say to Apostle Thomas (Doubting Thomas), “Blessed are those who do not see yet still believe?” I hope the ‘Doubting Thomas”fans, including myself, are all wrong. And the ‘Believers’ are all correct.

  78. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Read this article…so true

    A league source tells YES Network’s Jack Curry that the Philadelphia Phillies “would love” to get starter Cliff Lee back. We know for a fact that Ruben Amaro wants another starting pitcher because he’s already talking to Pedro Martinez.

    “Spoke to baseball official who has regular contact w Phils. He said they are itching to add a starter and would love to get Cliff Lee back,” Curry tweets.

    How on Earth could this trade even happen at this point? What would the Seattle Mariners even want for him? I’m sure they don’t want Phillippe Aumont back. He was recently sent down to Single-A ball, which, for those of you not familiar with baseball, is a demotion when you used to be pitching in Double-A.

    The Phillies got what appears to be next to nothing in the Lee trade despite Amaro telling us that he had to move the stud lefthander in order to replenish the farm system. How is that working out?

    Would a trade involving Jayson Werth suit you? If I had said that a month ago, I’d probably have received death threats. But what about now? Have you looked at Seattle’s offense? It’s wretched.

    We know that Dom Brown ain’t going anywhere, so forget that. That would be an awful decision. How about packaging Kyle Kendrick and Greg Dobbs? Is that too much to give up for Lee?

    But let me also add this to the mix. The report says that they would love to have Lee back. And I think we can all agree that that statement is true. They’d also love to have Tim Lincecum and Jason Heyward too (and maybe even a pony), but it doesn’t mean that’s happening. This move would be unprecedented as far as my memory serves and would require the Phillies to swallow a large scoop of pride.

    But I guess anything is possible, even if it’s not likely.

    So I’ll ask: What would you be willing to give up (if anything) to get Cliff Lee back?

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  80. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Because Cliff Lee is THE answer, right?? What??….he’s been elevated to a God-like status??

    Give me a break…..

  81. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    hey chuck did you watch him pitch in the world series? please name me who we got in return for him? thanks

  82. The Dipsy

    June 21, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Jeff. Let me answer that. Its not, “what would be willing to give up?”, its “what would they be willing to take?”

    My answer: Joe Blanton and Ryan Madson. It looks assinine on its face but dig a little deeper and see if you can feel my reasoning. Joe Blanton is a solid #3 starter in the major leagues. Could be a #2 for half the teams. He pitches a lot of innings and keeps you in games. He is also owed about 22m over the next three years. To me, for a pitcher like Blanton, that’s value. And he gives a team cost certainty because he’s signed and not anywhere. For a team reloading for next year OR building for two years down the line, he is a good fit. Madson represents good value too at $4.8 through ’11. Teams believe he is a closer in waiting. He’s got great stuff. At worst he is a real good set up man and what is the market value for one of those.? My guess would be above 4.8m.

    Thats what I would give up. Seattle would like the deal because they are getting good talent at a good price for multiple years. I think that would appeal to them. This is not the deal to put them over the top but its certainly one that would help them.

    The Dipsy

  83. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Jeff-What does getting Cliff Lee back solve? It’s just going to hollow out the minors even more by trading someone like a Jarred Cosart, and it won’t fix a (for the most part) inconsistent bullpen, or upgrade the bench, which are really hurting this team right now. And you know he’s not going to stay here and who knows what they’ll do with the two picks they would receive as compensation.

  84. teejvee

    June 21, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    If Seattle would take Werth and Kendrick for Lee, I’d do it .
    I think Werth is gone anyway.

    But that trade makes no sense for them

    The only thing they would want is Brown.

    I can’t see the Phillies going that route.

    But this talk is way too premature.
    By the trade deadline , the Phillies could be 8-9 games back and out of it.

    Or right in the thick of it .

    If the former, the Lee deal makes no sense.

  85. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    And it comes down to this….Cliff Lee wants…and will probably get….a multi-year deal that the Phillies and probably 27 other teams won’t give him.

    So guess what?? Next year he’s a Yankee or a Met.

    ——-

    Jeff..

    answers to your questions: 1) Yes. I watched the World Series….just about every pitch. and 2) Aumont, Gillies, Ramirez.

  86. Don M

    June 21, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    we lose a series 2-1 to the Red Sox, one of the better teams in baseball

    we win a series 2-1 against the Yankees, the best team in baseball

    we lose a series 2-1 against the Twins, one of the best teams in baseball


    4 wins,5 loses … 2 of the loses get attached to Roy Halladay

    all of those games were without Jimmy Rollins, JA Happ, and Ryan Madson… Jose Contreras has been great, but maybe Madson holds that Saturday Twins loss?

    Regardless.. the phillies will be alright, Cliff Lee isn’t coming here. .

    Amaro said last Wednesday night that getting Rollins, Happ, and Madson back on the roster “is 3 great additions/trades for the 2nd half of the season”

  87. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    I wasn’t saying that there is a moral obligation here. I’m saying that if you are a team player who already has more money than you’ll ever know what to do with, your primary concern should be to help your team win championships. That $5MM per year could easily be spent on another component that improves the team with no material impact to his personal life. That’s not a moral obligation. It’s called not being selfish.

  88. Phan in the outfield

    June 21, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Ayy! Enough with Cliff Lee. I don’t think that article was real. I can’t believe Amaro would even have the guts to bring it up. Lee is gone and he isn’t coming back. Next discussion.

  89. psujoe

    June 21, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    FYI, Howard is on pace for another 123 RBI’s with no Jimmy in the lineup. In other words he’ll end up with another 140 RBI.

    Lee isn’t coming back.

  90. Peter Wrinkles, jr.

    June 21, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I’ve read about this guy ‘The Dipsy.” All good things. His solution to acquire Cliff Lee is compelling. He should be a baseball analyst. Good stuff, and very compelling. Cliff would be a nice addition. This Dipsy fellow (I assume Dipsy is a fellow, but could be a gal) is on the ball. A problem solver. Keep the ideas flowing, Dipsy. And, thanks.

    Regards,

    Ruben A……… I mean Peter Wrinkles, Jr.

  91. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    So now we’re calling Ryan Howard “selfish” because he’s getting paid what he’s probably worth??

    again….at the end of the year, Howard’s numbers will something like .280 / 40 / 130-140.

    Any complaints about that??

    ——

    interleague play (this stretch) : so far, 4-5

    I we even just go 3-3 vs the Indians and Jays, that 7-8…basically .500.

    I think most of us would take that if you consider the Phillies struggles in interleague over the years.

  92. Phan in the outfield

    June 21, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Nick: Intellectually, in theory, we understand what you’re saying. In a perfect world, that outcome would be lovely. But the truth is being unselfish is just flatout not human. Human beings are survivalists and that means selfish. Sports teams are not the Titanic, nobody is saving their child, wife, or mother here from certain death. It’s not the players job to do the financial work, and it shouldn’t be. The FO & the owners deal with the finances. Players – well – uh, play. Some work harder than others, some play better than others, but that’s another discussion.

  93. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Thanks Chuck and were are all three of those guys? We gave a way a big time pitcher for crap. I understand our offense stinks at times and our bullpen is garbage. the bottom line you will not win a series with our starters against big teams. Moyer, blanton, Hamels. It has to scare some. Lee, and Doc feel much better about winning. I just hope we are not 10 behind the braves. we play them soon and need a sweep.

  94. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Jeff-Hamels is having a very good year. He and Doc are a very dangerous 1-2 combination come October, and Blanton has been surprisingly effective in the playoffs.

  95. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    So now you’re “scared” when Hamels pitches?? He’s been as consisitent a #2 as there is this year.

    And Moyer has surprised us all.

    As for the guys we got in the Lee deal: did you really expect Bob Gibson, Willie Mays and Rollie Fingers to suddenly appear?

    Sometimes it takes a few years before guys like that can make an impact.

  96. Don M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    I don’t think people know how many games are in a full-season of baseball

    its 162 …. so we don’t “need a sweep” against the Braves

    we don’t need to trade Werth away..

    what we need is a healthy lineup, with their Leadoff hitter and Gold glove SS.. and we need the “fans” to have a little faith in this team.

  97. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Oh, and Jeff…we just won a series against the best team in baseball…..WITHOUT Halladay getting one of the wins.

  98. Don M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Didn’t they change Aumont’s arm-angle in the spring?

    which would explain why he’s having some trouble with his consistency and throwing strikes … but they’re trying to save stress on his arm, and make his sinker heavier

  99. Don M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton

    or

    Halladay, Hamels, Blanton …Moyer/Kendrick/Happ

    the first rotation already won a World Series.. which means that the second (our current) should definitely be good enough to get the job done

  100. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    From here on out think 2 of 3…..

    With 95 games remaining that’s a 63-32 record. That means that the Phillies would win 98 games.

    Even if they only went 57-38 they would win 92 games.

    Most likely anything around 92 wins gets them a playoff spot.

  101. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Hey we beat the Yankees pretty good last year too. If I remember correctly Lidge blew a save and we would of swept. Then came the world series and I watch everyone get beat except for Lee. HMMM.

  102. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I think Blanton will have a HUGE second half. He’s still adjusting and recovering from starting the year on the DL. History is on his side….he’ll be fine.

  103. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    So now you’re gonna b*tch about the Phillies taking 2 of 3 last season….just because Lidge blew a save???

  104. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Don M, this isn’t 2008 anymore. Even if we were to play the Rays again in the World Series, we would not be playing another young inexperienced club. Last year we lost the World Series with Lee, Martinez, Hamels, and Blanton. Even though we didn’t get blown away, our pitching staff was exposed.

  105. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    So Jeff why would you be so conifdent that Lee wouldn’t get smoked against the Yankees this year. And as far as the World Series, Pedro pitched very well in Game 2 and Blanton kept the Phillies in Game 4 only to be let down by the offense and bullpen respectively. So it’s not like the Phillies beat the Yankees 1-0 twice and got crushed 15-0 the other four games(although Game 6 was really bad).

  106. Matt M

    June 21, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    This is just a general comment about how stupid some people sound when it comes to the ’08 season: why are the Rays considered inexperienced during the World Series, but they were a great young team when they won the AL East, beat the White Sox in the ALDS, and beat the Red Sox in the ALCS? Also, wasn’t that the first World Series for almost the entire Phillies roster except Feliz and Eyer? Were they not inexperienced?

  107. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    I’ve said this before…..the Phillies might not want to play the Rays in the WS this year if they were to get that far… The Rays are a MUCH better club than in 2008.

  108. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    How stupid? The Phillies played in the 2007 playoffs and got destroyed. If you watched the games, it seemed that they were so uncomfortable.

    Also, in 2008 the Phillies’ average batters age was 30.1 and average pitchers age was 30.6. The Rays stood at 27.0 for batters and 27.5 for pitchers. The Phillies were more experienced both in terms of overall play as well as playoff appearances. The Rays on the other hand almost blew it against the Red Sox and backed into the World Series. From there, it seemed like they didn’t respond to the pressure of the big stage that well.

    We should all be thankful though that the city and team didn’t collapse with that suspended game. It seemed like fate was conspiring against us.

  109. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    My whole point about te Phillies in 2007 relates to how comfortable they are. They clearly matured. For a good recent example. Compare Chase Utley to Ben Francisco in the World Series last year. Francisco on the other hand looked scared. Utley was confident and the Yankees pitching staff probably still wake up with night terrors. Big difference.

  110. Jeff

    June 21, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    I wasnt talking about lidge. You asked about taking two of three of the yankees. we did that last season and then got beat up in the world series without lee. I think guys are missing the point here. Our GM is killing this team. I was very happy he stood his ground last season and passed on doc. They wanted to much and he said no. Then he makes that great deal for Lee. A steal. We were able to keep Drabek and Taylor, and Happ. Then he goes out gives The Jays wanted they wanted anyway and ships Lee out for nobody. What are you doing. We gave up our whole farm for Doc. Why because they did not want to pay Lee. So they give Howie 125 million, Jimmy his extention, Blanton, Moyer, and bring in a bunch of has beens for our pen. Tired of watching Lidge blow game after game after game. Throw in Raul and this guy is killing this team.

  111. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Jeff is right on here. Given the signings Amaro has made, acting as he had in the name of “replenishing the farm” is a total joke. His goal seems to be to assemble a team of 38-year olds.

    In retrospect, getting rid of Lee was a massive mistake. I never thought I’d say this, but our prospects for 2012 are very grim indeed.

  112. Lou P.

    June 21, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Okay. For all of you Ryan Howard haters, here it goes. He leads the team in HR, RBI and Hits. He is second on the team in SLG and Batting AVG (at least 200 ABs) and 4th in OBP (at least 200 AB). As far as the entire National League, Howard is 6th in HR, 4th in RBI, 7th in Hits. I mean C’MON. Take into consideration this is his worst year!! And, take into consideration that if the top 3 spots got on base once in a while….what would the aforementioned stats show? How can he get anyone in if they are not even on base? I agree with Joe, your all getting a little crazy because the team is failing. It’s not one player. It’s the TEAM. Oh, and who will give Jason Werth $16M?

  113. Chuck

    June 21, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Lidge has ONE blown save this year. Otherwise, he’s been great. Poor argument, Jeff.

    I agree that Baez sucks. But the other guys have been good. Sure they are gonna give up runs once in awhile. It happens. But you make it seem like the entire bullpen sucks…and it doesn’t.

  114. MikeB.

    June 21, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Matt M; the Phillies might not need a sweep against Atlanta next time they play them but it certainly would help. As the season passes bye, each game becomes more vital then the last and each game, especially against those teams ahead of you, becomes more important to win. The Phillies absorbed enough losses from the Braves in the 1990’s. Need to beat these guys as often as they can as Atlanta looks more and more like the real challenger to the Phillies for the Eastern Division Crown with each game that they win.

  115. Tim

    June 21, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Can we please get Halladay and Hamels some help in the rotation? If Amaro does not get Cliff Lee back and resign him to a decent deal to keep him out of free agency, I have to believe he isn’t serious about winning this year or next. The guy has proven he loves playing for the Phillies, he would sign a deal with us, and with the cash this club is raking in every day as a winning team, $9 million (or $15 million for that matter) a year is no roadblock.

    You want bad economics for the Phils, try becoming irrelevant or mediocre again.

  116. Tim

    June 21, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    For the record, it obviously doesn’t need to be Lee, but please, for the love of God, do not go out and sign Fausto Carmona, or Jake Westbrook or anything else nobody in their right mind could get excited about, ala Joe Blanton. When your competition is the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, Cardinals, and Braves, you simply need a top-quality rotation. So spend the damned money. Please.

  117. NickFromGermantown

    June 21, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    “So spend the damned money.”

    Too late. Please meet Ryan Howard, Jaime Moyer, Brad Lidge, and Raul Ibanez.

  118. Lou P.

    June 21, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    In Halladay’s last six starts the offense has put up a total of 9 runs (1.5 per game). It’s likely then that the offense would be the same for Cliff Lee. As long as Cliff Lee has an ERA of less than 1.50 signing Lee is great. Otherwise, it really doesn’t atter who pitches for the phils, does it?

  119. Lou P.

    June 21, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    I do agree with most people regarding Howard, though. The Phillies did not need to extend Howard’s contract this year. He was signed through 2011. But extending his contract didn’t use up money for this and next year. but for 2012 who is going to replace Howard? What will his worth be? $25M a year? $30M? $35M?

  120. Jeff

    June 22, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Chuck, no disrespect but your wrong about Lidge. How can you defend him. Outside of 08 he has been aweful here. The blown saves all last seasons and injuries. I admit he looked sharp a couple weeks ago but thats one game. When your close comes into a ninth after a moron gives up some runs. You have a three run lead nobody out, you put them away. Thats what good closers do. Chuck do you really trust Lidge in a one run game? We have nobody in this pen that I trust. I blame that on Jr. He did nothing to help. If he got some pen help and signed Lee we would be in a great shape. Keeping our farm strong and the pitcher that almost won us the world series by himself.

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