Phils Need 10 to Beat Reds After Lidge Implodes – Phillies Nation
2010 Game Recaps

Phils Need 10 to Beat Reds After Lidge Implodes

It wasn’t how they drew it up, but with that lineup, no doubt they’ll take it. With a makeshift order due to the injuries to Chase Utley and Placido Polanco, and following a Brad Lidge two-out meltdown in the ninth, the Phillies were able to take the middle game of the series over the Reds, 9-6 in 10 innings.

Lidge easily put aside the first two batters of the ninth before walking Brandon Phillips. Orlando Cabrera then singled to left to bring the tying run to the plate and wouldn’t you know it, he tied it. Joey Votto annihilated a baseball into the left-center field seats, knotting it up at six and making it a tale of two Lidge’s.

During extra baseball, the Phillies ripped apart lefty reliever Arthur Rhodes, who had previously gone 33 straight games without allowing a run – a major league record. Ryan Howard doubled to lead off and Jayson Werth walked before Raul Ibanez snapped the tie game with a double that bounced out of the glove of center fielder Drew Stubbs. Howard scored to make it 7-6 and one batter later, Ben Francisco singled to left field to score Werth. Ibanez was then plated on a sac-bunt by Wilson Valdez as the Phils showed their small-ball side. It’s something we don’t see often, but in this case, it worked.

On the scoreboard, the Phils were able to put up crooked numbers in the 2nd, 4th, and 10th innings as they moved up the standings, inching closer to New York and Atlanta. Brian Schneider was the golden bat this evening, going yard in the second frame with a 402-foot blast. He went 3-for-4 on the night and has filled in admirably for injured backstop Carlos Ruiz, one of the seven Phils on the DL currently.

Starter Joe Blanton couldn’t get the win due to the blown save by Lidge, however, he was solid for a second straight outing. Joe B again went 7 2/3 innings, giving up three earned runs, the same line he produced five days ago against Cleveland.



  1. Jeff

    June 29, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    I for one have never been a charlie manuel fan. First off you can see he is losing it of late. Getting thrown out every other night. He never knows how to handle the pitching staff. Putting kendrick back out last night was just bad. Then leaving doc in to pitch 136 pitches to the pirates. He keeps going back to lidge when all he does is kill this team. After sending dobbs down he sticks him the 2 spot. Are you crazy. Put werth in the three and rollins two. Very simple charlie. Cant wait for him to retire.

  2. Jeff

    June 29, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    Yea and how is Lee doing again. third straight complete game. Yankees got crushed. lee instead of kendrick.

  3. SAM

    June 30, 2010 at 12:03 am


  4. SAM

    June 30, 2010 at 12:10 am


    Cliff Lee was brilliant again last night as rumors continue to swirl about his time in Seattle winding down, holding the Cubs to one run in a complete-game victory that lowered his ERA to a league-best 2.39.

    Lee missed most of April, yet leads the league with four complete games (including two shutouts) and has an absolutely ridiculous 76/4 K/BB ratio in 87 innings. To put that into some context Bret Saberhagen holds the all-time record with 11.0 strikeouts per walk in 1994 and no other pitcher in baseball history who qualified for the ERA title ever had 10 strikeouts per walk.

    Right now Lee has 19.0 strikeouts per walk.

  5. bacardipr05

    June 30, 2010 at 12:22 am

    Any official word on how long Polly an Utley are going to be out…Hey we still can do this there is still enough talent on this team if Ibanez and Victorino pick it up a notch. If Victorino can get to hitting .285 an Ibanez arond .270 we can do this. We should be getting Madson back soon and we need Happ.

  6. Bob Myers

    June 30, 2010 at 1:20 am

    There’s no better time for the 15 days for Utley and Polanco with the All Star break coming up and before that the Pirates.

    As long as they can come back, it looks like a strong second half.

    No doubt in my mind that trading Lee for nothing is the worst deal in Phillies history. We should have kept him, and losing him sent a message that we won’t strive for greatness here. That stinks!


    June 30, 2010 at 2:46 am

    Brad Lidge stinks. He does nothing for us. Yes, he was great in 2008, but last year and this year, he has been pathetic. We need to send him down and bring someone up to replace him immediately. I demand it, Ruben. Get off your ass and make moves.

  8. Drew Stubbs

    June 30, 2010 at 3:24 am

    I am the center fielder who bobbled the ball Ibanez hit. You can all thank me, not this “Chris Heisey” fellow.

  9. jt

    June 30, 2010 at 3:29 am

    trade lidge and hamels to seattle for lee and agree to eat some of their contracts…lidge is a joke and hamels is average..

  10. jt

    June 30, 2010 at 3:33 am

    only kidding btw but i wish they could i just hope lee stays in the american league…as for lidge,ruben amaro is gonna have to step up and say lidge needs to stop closing if he and charlie still want jobs…btw amaro is tearing the team apart if you ask me…

  11. dengxixian

    June 30, 2010 at 4:07 am

    this is very much click here

  12. NickFromGermantown

    June 30, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Cheeseburger Joe needs to press charges against Livin’ on the Edge Brad Lidge for stealing that win. At lease Joe got the QS. Hopefully he can build on this outing to try to regain his 2009 form.

    While the “we aren’t losing this one” offense showed some character and was the best story, Lidge was exposed again and is an obvious issue that needs to be dealt with – before Game 4 of the World Series preferably.

  13. bfo_33

    June 30, 2010 at 6:58 am

    Bob Myers – thanks for posting the only sensible comment of the morning. Phils starters are ranked 13 out of 30 teams – slightly above average (see fangraphs for detailed breakdown). Not the best, but also not sure how that translates to “questionable on any given day”. Pen is 15 out of 30 – dead middle. Blanton is getting more Blanton every time out, Halladay and Hamels are legit aces, Moyer is having a great year, and Kendrick is hit or miss – a good #5 starter on a team with October aspirations. While Lee would help almost any team, starting pitching is not the issue.

    A nice job by the offense getting an early lead (driven by that crappy bench so many hate), then the big boys coming through in extra innings (Howard crushed that double to lead it off, same with Ib – would have been a circus catch to bring that one in). Looks like the swagger is coming back. A poor outing by Lidge, but a solid effort by the rest of the team.

  14. bfo_33

    June 30, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Nick – I think Lidge has good stuff, just not enough work yet – is throwing well, just not pitching yet. See how the next month goes – then decide whether to keep him in the role or move Contreras back. Romero looked good again, and Madson is coming back. With Utley and PP down for a while, we need more than an average pen.

  15. Papa Thompson

    June 30, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Seriously? Complaining about Charlie being ejected? Did you not notice the game-winning double off the wall on THE VERY NEXT PITCH?

    There’s so much ungrounded comment already on this post that I really don’t know where to start. But as far as Dobbs goes … you might hate him, I might hate him, it would probably be hard for us to come up with even a handful of people who didn’t want to see him moved somewhere at the time he was DFA’d … but you can take it to the bank that he absolutely would not have been DFA’d if the Phillies at the time did not need a second catcher. I think Charlie never wanted to see Dobbs go in the first place, and is glad to have him back. Like it or not, I’d guess we’re going to see a whole lot of Dobbs here, at least up until the All-Star break.

  16. Jeff Y.

    June 30, 2010 at 7:10 am

    I would have yanked Lidge for JC against Votto.

  17. Papa Thompson

    June 30, 2010 at 7:16 am

    Nice use of numbers there, bfo. All I was going to do in scoffing at the idea Charlie can’t handle a pitching staff is reference the WS title, back-to-back pennants and three division flags … and maybe point out our top three starters just happen to line up for the upcoming Braves series — a coincidence, no doubt.

  18. Papa Thompson

    June 30, 2010 at 7:22 am

    No argument that Lidge didn’t have his good stuff. He was up with his slider, and you really could sense he was going to be bad when T-Mac referenced the great “bite” Lidge had on the slider last night. I’m OK on sticking with Lidge, but I’d like Rube to go out and get us a new TV play-by-play man, if possible.

  19. Havesomepablum

    June 30, 2010 at 7:31 am

    It’s funny to see all the Lidge bashers now. Are these the same ones that were bashing Moyer not that long ago?

  20. The Dipsy

    June 30, 2010 at 7:31 am

    bfo – I respectfully disagree as to Lidge’s stuff. I don’t think he has good stuff, anymore. While his “out” slider is still there, his set up pitch is no longer a 95-96 fastball. Its usually running at 92 now. In order to set up his slider he now has to throw that average fastball or his “set up slider” which he throws for a strike but can hang to high in the zone (as all baby sliders can do) and is the the pitch that Votto destroyed last night for the homer. Maybe Brad just needs to build arm strength. But he’s going to start getting big time soon.

    The Dipsy

  21. Dave

    June 30, 2010 at 7:58 am

    All great teams have great closers and we do not have one…period. Heck, we don’t even have a so-so closer. Everytime Lidge comes in to pitch I throw up a little in my mouth. This team needs a starter a closer at least one other bullpen arm and possibly an infielder (if Utley and/or Polanco can’t get back for a while). Problem is they have very little to trade in the way of prospects and Amaro won’t spend any money.

  22. bfo_33

    June 30, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Dipsy, agreed to an extent. He touches the mid nineties at times, but not consistently yet. My opinion is it is a lack of work (based upon his time off so far, it’s barely May for him). If not, he can still be valuable in the pen against righties, Romero lefties, Madson set up, and Contreras closer. I feel pretty good about that, although would prefer Lidge 08 in the closer role.

    The starting pitching staff is solid, especially when Happ comes back (could see Happ and KK splitting time as starter/pen until Happ builds up his arm). If healthy (and I know that is a big if), Happ is as good as any other starter available not named Lee, and is already paid for.

    We could use another infielder. Even if PP is back after the all-star break, he may not be an every day player. Valdez is a solid fielder, and has provided much more bat than expected, but any time he gets a hit, it’s a bonus. Castro is similar, but a little banged up. Maybe it’s memories from 2008, but Iwamura is sitting in the minors for the Pirates, may be able to pry him away cheap – had a solid bat, can play 2nd or 3rd, and decent speed – maybe being in a race would pick him back up a bit (making close to $5M – maybe the Pirates pick up some of the contract).

    I don’t think the Phils are broken, just need a few tweaks.

  23. Ed R.

    June 30, 2010 at 8:51 am

    In a perfect world, Happ comes back and takes his spot in the rotation. Kendrick gets moved to the pen with Figgy sent down. KK seems to do well the first time through the line up. Maybe one inning of work would be best for him. Not that he has done a bad job in the rotation…he is a 4th/5th starter at best and his numbers indicate that he is filling that role fairly well.

    Once Madson comes back then you get rid of Zagurski I suppose. Or, you get rid of Herndon and keep the extra lefty in the pen but for some reason I don’t see that happening.

    As bfo suggested, I would have absolutely no problem with Contreras closing full time. If Lidge can’t get back on track asap then I think Charlie needs to really consider this as a possibility. This isn’t last year where Charlie had a big lead in the division and was able to not pull the plug on Lidge as he should have. This team is fighting for it’s life right now and the manager needs to act accordingly. I am not saying he needs to overrated or freak out, but he can’t afford to just let things sort them out like he usually does. At least this year we seem to have a guy in the pen who can close. Last year we had Madson, and we all know how well he does at closing.

    As for the bench/infield…I would be all for a guy like Iwamura, or even Wigginton from Baltimore. Wiggy could fill in at 2nd, or make some spot starts at 1B or 3B. He is not much of a fielder to put it mildly but he can hit fairly well. Castro is pretty much useless. At least Valdez is a stud in the field and that certainly helps. Valdez needs to be planted at 3B, especially when guys like Hamels and Moyer are on the hill. Those guys need a good glove at 3B or they are in trouble.

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  25. TBOH

    June 30, 2010 at 9:13 am

    I don’t understand how the first three posts on this thread managed to 1.) Have a computer 2.) Turn it on 3.) Get to the internet. Seems like a lot of obstacles to get through, but I guess sharing insightful, rational, all-caps commentary is worth it.

  26. George

    June 30, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Reading these comments makes me think that if Lidge went out and saved every single game between now and the end of the year, he’s still be hated. And Manuel would be hated for using him all the time.

    Sure, he’s blown two saves. He’s not perfect. But this is not 2009. Give the man more of a chance.

    Contreras wouldn’t be perfect, either, and he’s probably too old to go back-to-back-to back. That’s why Lidge is closing, not because Manuel is stubborn.

    Reading these comments also makes me realize just how negative Phils fans can be. They WON, but people complain anyway.

  27. NickFromGermantown

    June 30, 2010 at 9:21 am

    I think a big problem that we are facing now is that everything thinks all will be right when Happ comes back. Happ 2010 being Happ 2009 was enough of a question in the off-season and now coming back from injury after not really getting anything going to begin with just increases uncertainty. I hope the best, but at this point, we really need a dominant starter.

    By the way, suggesting that we trade away Hamels at all is absurd given how early it is in his career and how much the Phillies need starting pitching. Furthermore, it would be ironic to trade for someone who got sent down to the minors the year before they won the Cy Young.

  28. Russ K

    June 30, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Can Lidge please stop throwing his slider every pitch. Used to be his out pitch, now its his every pitch. Where did the fastball go?

  29. bfo_33

    June 30, 2010 at 9:47 am

    TBOH for the laugh of the day.

  30. Bobby D

    June 30, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Tons of negative vibes up top there. I don’t post much but I do read here and I recognize the people who do, and those morons aren’t the people who do.

    A win is a win is a win. The Braves and Mets lost, we’re only 2.5 out of 1st, Halladay’s on the mound this afternoon and then we go to PNC Park to play an inferior Pirates squad. Things are looking up!

  31. Scott in D.C.

    June 30, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Russ K, you’re exactly right. As noted above, the velocity of his fastball was fine — but he doesn’t know where it’s going. The slider is the only pitch he can trust, which is obviously not lost on guys like Mauer and Votto. You could see the problems with the fastball in the just-barely save against the Yankees. Slider after slider after slider … If he regains command, then his slider becomes the devastating out-pitch again — instead of the hanging meatball we’ve seen recently.

  32. Jeff

    June 30, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    we cant get lee back. we have nothing to give. maybe seattle will take the three bozos back. man they could not wait to get rid of lee. kept him for one year, we are the world series champs.

  33. shag beta sigma delta

    June 30, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    I feel the pain of Lidge’s performance last night, but really, where you people watching? Not to blame it on on the terrible umpire and his moving strike zone, but Lidge seemed to get frustrated by throwing the same pitch to one guy and it being a strike, but the next time it was a ball. Lidge had 2 or pitches that he throw to the guy he walked, that were being called strikes all night. And I have to place some of the blame on Schnider for calling the game, maybe he is being told what to call, but he kept calling for the slider to Votto, like four in a row. He has to throw his fastball off the plate at some point. 92-93 is good enough if he locates it well to make even his half slider dangerous. IMO I think Lidge will just get better, I think he is still working up to it, and it seems to me that he only likes to pitch to Chooch, because if I am not mistaken Chooch was not in there when he blew his last save.
    And do not get me wrong, Schnider has filled in very nicely behind the plate and called a great game for Big Joe last night, and was a huge offensive stud for this team last night. Also if Ryan and Raul are only going to get one hit, it was a good time to get that one hit. And Valdez on that safety squeeze was done almost to perfection.
    JC looked real good last night, only one ball, if he regains his control he will be a huge asset to this pen

  34. Bob in Bucks

    June 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Shag stole most of what I was going to say. The fact is that Chooch has a fantastic ability to block those pitches in the dirt. Without him you see Lidge throwing his slider much higher. I noticed this before we lost Chooch. Lidge’s fastball has hit 94-95 already this year, it was a little slower last night. The slider is still biting but higher. With a different umpire he is out of the inning. With a different catcher there is no HR.

  35. shag beta sigma delta

    June 30, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    I have had it with all you clueless people who say we got nothing for Lee, Yes I would have loved to have Doc, Lee, Hamels 1-2-3. But the prospects we got back for him where not guys who are going to play in the Majors for 2-3 years tops, they still need work, and you can not say they all suck until they have had time to develop. Get off that train please, the last thing that has been wrong with this team is the starting rotation, you can hate on Moyer and KK all you want, but if this offense was even half of what it was in the first 3-4 weeks of the season through June this team would be 5-6 games up and Doc would only have two losses, and Hamels would have won 2-3 more games. So really so many of you are worried about the rotation?

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