Utley and Polanco headed to the DL – Phillies Nation

Utley and Polanco headed to the DL

Chase Utley and Placido Polanco have been placed on the 15-day disabled list.

Chase sprained his right thumb in last night’s game as he was thrown out attempting to stretch a single into a double via a head first slide.

Placido, who has been nursing a right elbow injury, received a cortisone shot on Monday. Unfortunately it did not help. He will likely need surgery in the offseason, but the Phils hope some rest will at least get him to game-shape.

Greg Dobbs and Brian Bocock have been recalled and will join the team in Cincinnati.



  1. Chuck

    June 29, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Greg Dobbs???? WTF?????!!!!!!!

  2. The Second John

    June 29, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Joe Crede is still a free agent.

  3. Publius

    June 29, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Abandon all hope, ye who enter here

  4. mike

    June 29, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    well…uhh…that happened.

  5. Dave

    June 29, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Not only do we get Dobbs red hot bat, we get more of his stellar fielding at 3rd.

  6. TBOH

    June 29, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    “3rd Base Dobbs” is the worst kind! Run!

  7. Phan in the outfield

    June 29, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    No no no, not Dobbs again. Come oooooon. Okay NOW you can say I’m whining, Chuck.

    And worst of all – and I apologize before I even say his name but I think folks should know it’s being said – Ken Rosenthal has said the Mets are likely going to get . . . yes, Clifton Phifer Lee.

    This is a really deeply baaad day.

  8. Brooks

    June 29, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I just tossed –

  9. The Second John

    June 29, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    They made it to the playoffs without Utley for 2 months in 07, and I think they can make to the playoffs this season too. Also, another positive thing is that this is right near the All-Star break, so they get a few more days to heal.

  10. cheryl

    June 29, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Dobbs? You gotta be s#itti** me! puleeze.

  11. Chuck

    June 29, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    I really don’t give 2 sh*ts about Cliff Lee right now…

    Because even if we DID have him on the team…it has ZERO to do with the injuries to the everyday lineup.


    As for Dobbs, I was REALLY happy when he was sent down, and I can’t understand why guys like Ransom get passed over for. Isn’t that what he (Ransom) was brought to the organization for in the first place??…to come up when it was needed and show what he’s got??

    Well…let’s just cheer for Dobbs….maybe he will make the most of this opportunity and get it together??

  12. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    This is the beginning of the end for the Phillies

  13. Chuck

    June 29, 2010 at 3:20 pm


    It could be just what the Phillies need.

    There’s always “unsung heroes” that we never think about until they show us what they can do.

  14. The Second John

    June 29, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I’m with Chuck. Remember Iguchi in 07?

  15. Pingback: Tweets that mention Utley and Polanco headed to the DL | Phillies Nation -- Topsy.com

  16. Manny

    June 29, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    I don’t think this is just what the Phils need, Chuck.

    This is bad, bad news. Still A LOT of season left… Utley, Polanco, Happ need to come back strong, and quickly.

  17. mnjam

    June 29, 2010 at 3:31 pm


    Dobbs and Bocock are NOT those guys — they’ve shown that.

    Atkins and Ben Francisco might be. No interest. Not using them.

  18. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Hey maybe it can be a chance for the Phills to rebuild their farm system, trading werth, Ibanez, rollins, and Moyer, just think about it, it will better their future, can’t win every season.

  19. DBloc

    June 29, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    In light of this news, I vote the gameday beer to be Uncle Cholly’s favorite: a bottle of VO

  20. norm14

    June 29, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Hang in guys. Nobody said it was going to be easy.

  21. Havoc

    June 29, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    To early to think about rebuilding, especially with how the Phils have played down the stretch the last few years. These two injuries really sting though. Just gotta keep the faith.

    Of course an offering to the baseball gods never hurt either…

  22. Philly Fever

    June 29, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Get rid of the those 2 ex-mets, they brought the injury jinx with them!!!!

  23. JK

    June 29, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Bocock in Lehigh Valley: .179/.239/.231…7 extra base hits in 237 plate appearances

    Ransom in Lehigh Valley: .238/.311/.470… 32 extra base hits in 316 plate appearances

    Why is Bocock getting the call? What’s the point of even having Ransom is he isn’t gettin called in this situation and a stiff like Bocock is?

  24. psujoe

    June 29, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Don’t puke, but the Phils could probably get Pedro Feliz for a bag of balls. Stros would pay a lot of his salary as well since he’s on the pine. Despite his bad year he’s still hitting over .280 against lefties. Get creative Rube and bring back Feliz and Meyers.

  25. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    See that’s the problem with you Phillie fans, don’t know when to quit huh, why continue to compete, the Mets are a pitcher, and Beltran away from taking the division, the Braves are slightly better than them at the moment, why not boost the farm system, get something for werth, he’ll be gone anyway, Rollins, and Ibanez are getting old, and Moyer I mean he’s been a beast but seriously why keep him, why add on to the payroll, they should build around, Howard, Utely, and Halladay, oh and Victorino.

  26. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Good thing these guys will be back for the 2nd half …. when we start to play .600 ball again every year!!

  27. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Now you guys know how if feels watching you team have so much injuries, couldn’t bare watching the Mets last season for that reason

  28. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Hey Don by the time they come back, the Braves, and Mets will probably be well ahead in the division.

  29. George

    June 29, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Sure, they made the playoffs without Utley for two months. But at the time, they still had their third baseman, all their starters and relievers, and a decent backup at second. That’s a BIG difference.

    Also that year, Rollins wasn’t coming off an injury which is known to have long-term effects.

    The Phils will now be playing games with three bench warmers in the lineup (unless Ruiz is fully recovered, then it’s STILL two), an emergency starter in the rotation, and no regular set-up man in the ‘pen. Although I’m usually optimistic about this team, I no longer think they stand much chance this year. It’s not time to rebuild, though.

  30. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Beltran isn’t helping any Major League team this year…

    Pelfrey is currently having his career year, Maine is done, and Dickey got figured out last night ..

    Mets will be lucky to win 85 games this year… especially because they’ll have to play in September, the month in which their “team leaders” seem to play tight, cause too many errors, etc..

  31. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 29, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Whats the difference between the 2009 Mets and 2010 Phillies? Even after all these injuries, the Phillies still have a winning record, and still have a fighting chance to win the division. Whats the difference between 2009 Mets fans and 2010 Phillies fans? in 2008 Mets fans kept saying, “if only we didnt have these injuries” (kept blaming injuries). 2010 Phillies fans keep asking why the TEAM is playing like CRAP, not pointing a relatively mediocre record (mediocre for the Phillies, but a really good record for the Mets, hmm I guess Phillies fans have higher expectations than 2nd or 3rd place for their team) has much to do with injuries. Either way, Bocock and Dobbs couldnt even make the Pirates roster I would say. We have plenty of other talent to bring up. Is Charlie, or RAJ giving up? It almost feels like even after breaking out of the slump, and looking much better, one of both of them are giving up. I dont know why they would, and I cant explain why it feels like that. Cant wait for Happ to get back. Hopefully he is the Happ we all knew and loved in 2009 regular season.

  32. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Dont look know MysteryMet, but even after a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE stretch of looking like the 2009 Mets, the Phillies are still WELL withing striking distance. What are the Phillies back now, like 5.5 games? maybe 4.5 games. DUH.

  33. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    I meant dont look NOW

  34. MplsPhilsFan

    June 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Ya know, I am really going to enjoy it when the Mets go on their 11 game death march out to the West Coast after the All Star breakand are in third by a healthy margin by the time they return to that ugly money pit they call a home stadium

    Also, isn’t it about time for Reyes’ annual trip to the DL for a hamstring issue?

  35. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    And why not George, the guys I mention will probably be gone by a season, or two.

  36. NickFromGermantown

    June 29, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    When do we give the Steve Jeltz Award to Ruben Amaro? He’s given all of these multi-year deals to players who are at best in the midrange of their careers and who have probably peaked in performance while at the same time unloading what was left in our farm system.

    Is it too late to get Mike Arbuckle back?

  37. Greg

    June 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    How can you not be optimistic, or at least have some hope? It’s only 10 games without 2 players. Even if we go 4-6, we will still be no more than 4.5 GB the Braves.

    We’ve overcome way larger deficits before.

  38. AZ Phills fan

    June 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Well if it was going to happen now is as good as time as any. With the Phills having two against cincy and then 4 against pitt on the road followed by a 7 game homestand against cincy and braves the Phills should be ok as long as they hit even with the subs.

  39. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    So while Rollins was out … and Utley, and Werth weren’t hitting at all …

    those teams didn’t run away with the division, but Polanco is out again, and Utley on the 15-day DL .. and suddenly the Mets and Braves are taking the division by the All-Star break?

    Mets are improved, but they sure as hell don’t scare anyone..

  40. Greg

    June 29, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Even if the Mets get Lee, I still wouldn’t be worried about them. As long as that joke of an Ace Santana is up at #1, I’m not worried.

  41. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Ibanez was pretty far from “Midrange in his career” last year ….. and without him putting up MVP numbers in the 1st half of last season, and carrying our team until Howard took the torch in the 2nd half …. we wouldn’t have even made the playoffs, let alone a 2nd straight World Series

  42. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Yeah Brian your right, but the Mets had the whole team last year injured, the Phills have a guy here and there getting injured, the Phills are a good team, but I was just suggesting to rebuild, what’s so wrong about thinking about the future huh, what you think Moyer, rollins, Ibanez is getting younger or something.

  43. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 29, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    really nickfrom germantown? Can we say Halladay, Lee in 2009, Ruiz (granted he is injured) prior to Polanco getting injured he was looking pretty darn good. Do you honestly expect a GM to have EVERY SINGLE DEAL turn out to be a blockbuster. Think about it. You also talk about “unloading what was left in our farm system”. Let me ask this, do you like Having Roy Halladay on the Phillies? Did you like watching Halladay pitch a perfect game? Do you realize if the Phillies had scored at least 3 runs in every one of his starts, he would have what 2 or 3 losses now? If you said yes to any of that, then get a clue. The “farm system” (which still does have talent even though you dont think so) is unloaded MOSTLY because of the Halladay deal, not to mention the Lee deal in 2009, how did he do?

    And before you bash RAJ for not keeping both, think about all the money to keep all of them. We would have kept him for 1 year, with no chance to sign nother pitcher (even if Blanton has been below expectations) The Phillies basically would have had both for 2010, and seeing his injuries and some of his outings, and seeing the worse than usual streak the Phillies got on, that wouldnt have helped. But I guess people need to complain about something.

  44. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Greg your an idiot, everyone knows Santana is a 2nd half pitcher, so lets say the Mets do get Lee, doesn’t that really make them a scary team to hit against, Pelfrey is a beast, Niese got his shit together, Lee is a killer, and no one for some reason can score on Dickey, plus the Mets are getting Beltran back, why wouldn’t they be a scary team to play against.

  45. Brian Sr. of CO

    June 29, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Who of the Mets starters were injured? Reyes, Beltran and one other? Gee thats really the entire team isnt it. Last time I checked the Mets still had 2 out of 3 starters in the outfield, 2 out of 4 startes in the infield, and the starting catcher. Hmm so that was 3 players out. Since when is 3 players the “whole team” LOL. Nice try though, try again. How about the starters and bullpen? The Phillies have not had their entire Pitching staff intact yet this season. Lidge, Happ Blanton and Romero started on the DL, Madson went before they got back, Back, Happ is still out, sent another to the DL, and yet Phillies fans dont make excuses for the injury’s for not looking good, we ask why they play like crap regardless of who is in. LOL Pretty bad argument.

  46. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Dude last I check, Wright had time in the Dl, Franceour, had time, Santana, Niese, Castillo, see you don’t know cuz you just keep up with the Phills, but the Mets had a horrible injury prone season, so check the records before you start writing nonsense

  47. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Brian you really think the Phills starters can outpitch the Mets, other than Hallladay, last I checked the Mets left the Phills with no runs, and the Mets swept them, and now it’s said that the Mets are getting Lee, that would equally your precious Halladay, so how exactly are the Phills going to pull out of this one.

  48. Randomguy

    June 29, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    “You feeling lucky Punk, well do ya”

  49. The Original Chuck P

    June 29, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    Ouch… on one hand, Utley has been slumping mightily (he has hit 1 HR since May 21st; that’s 1 HR in 34 games… 1 HR in his last 144 plate appearances and 1 more HR than I have over that stretch) and a rest might turn his season around. On the other hand, the replacement value couldn’t be much lower for these two players. Juan Castro, Wilson Valdez, Greg Dobbs and Brian Bococki aren’t worth the sweat on Utley/Polanco’s collective jock strap. It’s going to hurt the team but maybe it’s worth it if he can rest up and come back with a clean bill of health. If there’s any time that I would want to see him on the 15 day DL, it’s right now (before the AS break). Polanco’s elbow has really been nagging him… wonder if that long throw from 3rd has anything to do with it.

    In any event… if we can get to the all-star break within striking distance (<5 GB), there's no reason to panic. August and September are typically when this team turns it on; that's typically when the big man says, "Jump on my back and let me take you to the promised land." I expect nothing less than another Division Title.

  50. George

    June 29, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Ransom’s .238 isn’t all that much better than Bocock’s .179, particularly coupled with his bad reputation on defense. There are always other considerations, too, like attitude, speed and baserunning skills, a team’s ability to option without having to DFA a player, etc. I don’t really know these two players, but I’m sure the Phils do, and have made the correct decision on who to bring up.

  51. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Oh yeah Delgado, Church, Maine, Perez, should I keep going, and the Mets weren’t out of it until Beltran was officially gone, so shut Brian

  52. Ryan S

    June 29, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Brian Sr.,

    I give Amaro credit for the 1st Lee deal. I think that was one of, if not, his best deal. Everything else he has done has been signing current players to long extensions (Blanton, Victorino, Howard, etc.), signing FAs early before the market is set and losing, signing bum bench players and bullpen arms for much more than they’re worth, and emptying out our farm system (yes, we do have some good players down – Brown, Cosart, Singleton, etc., but our overall system is ranked in the bottom 3rd among all major league teams).

    Amaro was given the most ideal position for a GM – a championship caliber major league team, a respectable farm system, plenty of room in payroll due to increase revenues and he’s squandered every advantage he has had. When he took over, he had a clear objective, keep the core of this team together (the core, not the entire team), while refreshing the expensive role players with more affordable young, cost-controlled players, and make the occasional FA signing or mid-season trade to put us over the top for getting into the playoffs. Either he wasn’t giving the marching orders or he just isn’t very good at his job. I’ll assume it’s the latter.


  53. Ed R.

    June 29, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    For the record, the Met’s of last year had historic numbers in terms of games missed by their starters. Everyone on the DL currently for the Phillies could stay there for the rest of the season and not approach what the Met’s had last year.

    Secondly, as bad as this is…and this is bad, the Phillies still have winnable games, and an all star break thrown in there to help this all out.

    And lastly, as much as I expect the Mets to roll over come September, I am not certain that they will anymore.

  54. Bobby D

    June 29, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Injured Phillies so far: Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Ruiz, Castro, Bastardo, Durbin, Madson, Happ, Lidge, Blanton.

    Don’t worry though, Pedro will be back soon, injured players will heal and they’ll win the division.

    Side note: How many yen for Tadahito Iguchi?

  55. Jeff

    June 29, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Peter Gammons was on WFAN today and killing the Phillies. He is so right. Said first they did nothing before the season to better there bench. He said they did it very cheaply. Then he said they got CRUSHED in the Lee deal. After stealing him they got robbed on the deal to Seattle. Saying those players will never be MLB ready. Should of just kept him for the season for the 9 million then let him go. You could of even held on to him in spring training and shopped him around for a better package. He also killed Jr for the Howard deal. He said he should of waited for his current deal to end. His power is decreasing and will as he gets older. The Phillies have no minor league prospects after getting rid of all of them for Doc. SAD

  56. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Where are you Brian Sr, you idiot, cat got your tongue, don’t have anything to say huh, did I shut you up, come on say something back yourself up.

  57. MysteryMet

    June 29, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    See that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you Phills fans, they should sell this year, they still have talent they could build around like Victorino, Utley, and Halladay, build the farm system again.

  58. George

    June 29, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Brian Sr: What other talent should the Phils have brought up? Domonic Brown is an OUTFIELDER, he doesn’t play third or second. Niether do Gillies or Gose. Freddy Galvis isn’t ready, and most the rest of the decent prospects are pitchers.

  59. EricLindros

    June 29, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Brian Sr of CO, just stop.

    The deal sending Lee to Seattle was, is, and will continue to be an abortion and no amount of hand-waving on your part is going to change that. The fact is that RAJ traded away an all-star caliber number 1 pitcher for three nobodies. A team 2 wins away from winning the world series doesn’t remove that kind of a player if you’re serious about making a run at a Championship. Further, his stated reason for dumping Lee – that he needed to restock a depleted farm system – is an absolute joke, since the players he got back in return are going to be lucky to ever get a cup of coffee in the majors.

    And, please, don’t use the “…think about all the money to keep all of them” defense. Anyone who’s watched RAJ hand out one overpriced contract after another (Moyer, Ibanez, picking up Rollins’ option, Howard’s extension, etc. etc.) is just going to be insulted by such a weak argument.

  60. The Original Chuck P

    June 29, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Mystery… what the eff are you talking about?

  61. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Peter Gammons touches little boys in the greater Boston-area

  62. Greg

    June 29, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Tonight’s lineup @ CIN: Victorino CF, Dobbs 3B, Rollins SS, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Ibanez LF, Schneider C, Valdez 2B, Blanton P.


    Why the hell wouldn’t it be:

    Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Werth RF, Howard 1B, Ibañez LF, Schneider C, Valdez 2B, A Brick Wall 3B, Blanton P. ?

    Why the hell have a .100 hitter in the 2-hole? The Brick Wall could do more!

  63. NickFromGermantown

    June 29, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Brian Sr. of CO, come on man. Let’s review a few things.

    It’s amazing how Raul’s half MVP season continues to define him here in Philadelphia. Yes, he’s a nice character guy. Yes, he put up some good numbers. The problem is though that the Phillies signed Raul Ibanez to a 3-year deal. It’s not first half of 2009 anymore.

    Moyer is working to redeem himself now, but 2009 was a blackhole of performance given his pay (ERA+ 87) and how unfavorably he acted when put in the ‘pen. He is currently below average with his ERA+ of 97.

    Polanco brings a lot to the table, but the problem is that he signed a 3-year deal when he was 34. I don’t know if it’s age, but injuries have nagged him this year.

    The Lidge deal was terrible. Too long for too much. In retrospect (which I know is unfair), if he walked, we’d have more potential in the draft with a 1st round pick and almost anyone would have done better than him.

    The Ryan Howard deal is a massive potential problem. Too much, for too long, with a terrible buyout, and the deal came too soon. I hope I am wrong about that overall though. We don’t need Lenny Dykstra Part 2.

    Lee in 2009 was great and so is Halladay in 2010, but you need to look at what the cost of that is. What if the cost of unloading the farm for 2 years of winning impacts us 5-10 years down the line? Sounds like a long time, but what if we get bad and people stop buying tickets? That Howard contract doesn’t look so great anymore, does it?

    At this point, I don’t know why he bothered getting rid of Lee. The whole point was to not mortgage the future, although Amaro seems to be doing that already. Is his goal to try to build the oldest World Series Champion of all-time? What is he doing? Why did they try to make Aumont a starter again? Few things have made sense during Amaro’s tenure, unless you think signing guys who have already peaked to too much for too long is a good strategy.

    I really hope that I am wrong on Amaro and that he proves himself over time, but at this point too much has happened to continue giving him the benefit of the doubt.

  64. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Brick Wall was placed on the 15-day DL this afternoon

  65. The Dipsy

    June 29, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    When will people understand that ownership dictated that RAJ could choose who he could have: Halladay for 3 years at a good price or Lee for one year @ 9M. Not both. He made his choice. Its on ownership that Lee is not here, not on Ruben. The signings of Blanton and Shane were good ones. The signings of Jamie and Ibanez were bad ones. We gave up nothing for Cliff Lee the first time around. I don’t think that RAJ is particularly astute at putting together a bench but one might wanna consider that any prospective bench guy might be hesitant to play here because they know Charlie doesn’t play his reserves.

    Personally, I like RAJ. I think he has guts to take action and to make tough choices. He takes crap for the Lee to Seattle deal and he doesn’t shy away from it. RE: his total body of work with trades, signings, etc – its just OK. But he did make his bones on the first Cliff deal when he told the Jays to shove it and then went and got Lee. That was beautiful. That got him a lot of currency in Philadelphia.

    The Dipsy

  66. Ed R.

    June 29, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    For the record, I think and have always thought that RAJ would be the death of this team, nothing he has done so far has made me change from that stance, in fact, it’s only increased me feelings.

    However, the one thing I don’t really fault RAJ for is the bench. He did a good job and went out and revamped his bench. Yes he did it on the cheap but who doesn’t? Name one team whose INF is making 5-10 mil? The problem is that a team with a good bench is a team whose bench plays. And that, lays on the shoulders of Charlie.

    Also, Jim Salisbury seems to think Utley could be out for months and not weeks.

  67. Phan in the outfield

    June 29, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    God I hate Peter Gammons. I can’t believe he actually gets paid for his so-called “thoughts.” It’s shocking.

    Am I the only one who finds it staggering that someone who calls themselves a “Mets fan” spends their day on a Phillies fan site?Seriously, are you deranged? Get yourself to Bellevue, my man. You have a date with a lobotomist.

  68. bfo_33

    June 29, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Total over-reaction. Which bad bat are you going to bring up? Big deal. The rest may help Ultey heal from other injuries, just stay @ 500 while he and PP are out. Castro and Valdez are going to get the majority of the time at 3rd and 2nd.
    The only problem is Rollins may not get much rest – I’d take an extra few losses now then losing him again – hope Charlie sits him every 4th game until he’s fully recovered.

    Leading off with Vic, Dobbs 2nd, Rollins 3rd. I’m not a fan of Vic at lead-off, would rather have kept Rollins there, moved up Howard to 3rd, Werth 4th.

    Don M – looks like someone grabbed your tag.

  69. George

    June 29, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Peter Gammons is an idiot if he thinks Amaro didn’t address the bench. Schnieder and Gload were upgrades, and although Castro hasn’t been great, he’s still been better than Bruntlett. Bench players aren’t supposed to be expensive, because, guess what, THEY’RE BENCH PLAYERS! I also doubt the Phils could have gotten anything better in the spring, considering that Lee was on the DL at the time.

    I ask you, Jeff, is Gammons an MLB scout, or is he a reporter confusing news with opinion?

    And also, Jeff, please note that it is “should HAVE” and “could HAVE,” not “should OF,” “could OF.” That’s the kind of English that makes me think you’re an idiot, too.

  70. Evan

    June 29, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Amaro isn’t a very good GM. The Lee deal was fantastic the first time and a travesty to give him to Seattle, he’s been just about the best pitcher in baseball this year. I’ve have come to the person conclusion that the Halladay deal was definitely worthwhile if you disregard the Lee portion, but Amaro has made too many mistakes. Howard’s extension, singing Ibanez, the sad sad bench, not resigning Meyers, and I like Polanco but I think he could’ve gotten 2 years.

    Howard’s contract is going to be a big weight in 4 years.

  71. NickFromGermantown

    June 29, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    It makes little sense that a trade-off between Lee and Halladay would be top-down given the contract that Howard was awarded.

    Also, unless they forced his hand, the fact is that Amaro should have done a better job shopping Lee. Once again, retrospect is unfair, but we clearly lost scouting talent when Mike Arbuckle packed his bags for Kansas City.

  72. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    So signing two gloves that were better than Bruntlett (Castro and Valdez)

    Brining in a backup Catcher that is much better than Coste (Schneider)

    an OF/ Lefty PH that is way better than Stairs (Gload)

    Ben Francisco was added last year by Ruben.. and he held onto the guy that in 2008 was the best pinch hitter in all of baseball in Dobbs

    Someone explain to me how that counts as “Nothing to better their bench?”

  73. Greg

    June 29, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    How was losing MYers, not Meyers, a bad thing? Sure, he’s having a good year in Houston, but guess what, his attitude here was atrocious, and clearly he wasn’t wanted. Polanco wouldn’t have signed for 2 years, Evan, that’s why they gave him the third. Like The Dipsy said, Amaro had to choose, Lee for 1 year, or Halladay for 3. Which would you choose, Evan? Also, what’s sad about our bench? Gload’s been a very respectable lefty off the bench, and has played well at first while Howard was DH’ing. Castro’s filled in nicely, better than Eric Bruntlett, at least.

    To whomever stated that Utley may be out a month, (I know you were quoting someone, but I’m just saying this generally), just think about that for a second. IF all it is is a sprain, it won’t take more than 2 weeks, one would think. I’ve sprained my foot and was still able to run quite well after about 1 and a half weeks. Utley’s tough. He was playing through a thumb injury the day it happened. I guarantee the second he’s eligible to come off the DL, he will, because he wants to play.

  74. Ed R.

    June 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Interesting point Nick…I have long said that losing Arbuckle would be bad for this team because he was so good at evaluating talent among other things. I hope Arbuckle can help to turn it around in K.C.

    As for the Lee trade…I almost feel like it had to happen when it did. Look at how pissed people are still about the trade, imagine if Lee and Halladay were actually penciled in to the rotation together for more than 24 hours? The town would have revolted.

  75. Greg

    June 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Also, I don’t think they shopped Lee around because they wanted to give him to a mediocre team that they wouldn’t have to worry about come October. It would have been easy to trade Lee to the Mets, Yankees, Red sox, or any contending team, but it would have only hurt the Phillies in the long run.

  76. George

    June 29, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    I’m not sure why everyone trashes the contracts Amaro has given out. It certainly wasn’t his fault that Lidge had a bad, injury plagued year; a good closer gets $10-12 million. And Moyer, despite age and some questionable sabermetrics numbers keeps winning games. ( the most on the team since he’s been a Phillie). There are more expensive starters with better so-called stats who don’t win, even on good offensive teams. Blanton and Victorino are in their prime years (29-32). One might make an argument that Ibanez was a bad deal, but the year isn’t even half over. One might argue that Howard will go down hill, but one might also argue that he won’t, and that other 1st basemen will soon be making just as much. And Polanco’s problems have nothing to do with age; he was conked on the elbow with a Tim Hudson pitch.

    I also wonder why everyone trashes the Lee deal so much. These prospects were condemned before they even played an inning in the Phils’ system, and they’re all so young it’s too early to pass that kind of judgment.

  77. Matt

    June 29, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    prime years… 29-32… hilarious

  78. Ed R.

    June 29, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Greg…that would be me, I mentioned Utley being out a month. Salisbury was quoting Scott Proefrock, the assistant GM who said Utley was sent home to get 2nd and 3rd opinions because surgery was not out of the question. And with surgery comes a longer wait time.

    Not like this team is completely upfront about injuries…Happ was said to be out for a week or two…what’s it been? Two months?

  79. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    in 2006, Mike Arbuckle told me directly that Joe Bisenius was the next big thing …

    most of you have just heard that name for the very 1st time.. Joe. Bisenius. … we’re still waiting for him to develop I guess. . .

    Gillies is a clone of Victorino
    JC Ramirez is a guy that throws 94-96, but needs to learn how to pitch, not just throw
    and Aumont throws GAS, but was bounced twice from Starter-Reliever-Starter.. and the Mariners tried to make him change his delivery, and the Phillies changed him back … obviously its going to take him more than 3 months to start dominating.

    Have some faith is this team, the players that they’ve brought-in (except Baez) have all helped.. and these guys will help in a few years, quicker than Draft picks would have..

  80. George

    June 29, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    So Matt, what, pray tell, do YOU consider to be a player’s prime years? I’ve consistently read that younger than twenty-eight a player hasn’t gotten to his maximum performance level, and over thirty three is when a player starts to slide.

    Maybe I’m wrong, or my sources have all been wrong, but you’re just stating absolutely nothing with absolutely nothing to back it up with. If you want to laugh, at least give a reason why you’re laughing. Otherwise, it would be within anyone’s rights to call you a stupid @sshole with no evidence to back it up.

  81. chitown Phillyfan

    June 29, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Is it just me, or are the Phillies kind of mirroring the state of the economy? Awful downturn = horrible slump, followed by a slow but steady increase in runs, but now another potential setback that is leaving everyone easy and uncertain…..Brillaint, right?

  82. Matt

    June 29, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    players peak at 27-28. they improve pretty rapidly before that, and decline much slower by comparison through their 30s. much work has been done on this.

    here is an example

    many of amaro’s moves make sense if you believe that a player’s peak lasts through his mid 30s. unfortunately we don’t have much data to back this idea up. its not a hard and fast rule for each player, but as a group, the phillies can expect less each year from their aging core of howard, utley, rollins etc.

  83. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    If Amaro believed that players in their mid-30’s were still in their primes

    would he have given more years and dollars to Ibanez and Polanco?

    I think people forget the Phillies were also bidding against other teams for these Free Agents ….
    so when someone makes I comment like “I THINK WE COULD’VE GOTTEN POLANCO FOR 2 YEARS” …. it doesn’t make any sense.. if the Phillies could’ve gotten a better deal on that player, they would have.

    Ibanez.. the Phillies made an aggressive play for him as there were 6-8 teams interested in Ibanez at the time. So we had to make it worth his while to choose US over THEM … I’m glad we got Ibanez instead of watching him to elsewhere and signing Milton Bradley or whoever else was left

    He signed these guys to deals that would keep them here for a few years, at fair-market values …

    Age aside.. that is the same with Moyer, his stats make him worth of being an $8 M a year pitcher …. which is why they were smart to lock-in Blanton and Victorino (as someone mentioned earlier)

  84. Joe

    June 29, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    how about they could have gotten adam dunn instaed of ibanez for 2 years and a better contract. THEN they’d have the money to sign werth after this season instead of having to let him walk.

    yes he’s bad in the field but he’d have made up for it offensively and been locked up for only 2.

  85. George

    June 29, 2010 at 6:33 pm


    At least you have linked to some information now, although I doubt you would have without someone taking offense at you original insulting post.

    I looked over this a little, and found much to question. For one thing, sabermetrics don’t tell the entire story. For another, even the piece’s author states, “I think that this issue contains a lot of muddy water.” The third thing is that he cites another person who says a player peaks at 29. If I’m not mistaken (and I’ll admit here that I haven’t looked up their exact ages) Vic and Blanton are both 29. They are probably at their peak, or maybe have just gone a tiny bit beyond that, but they are hardly about to decline drastically. They’ll likely be fine, and they aren’t “overpaid” by any stretch of the imagination.

    I wasn’t referring to “peak YEAR,” either. There is a period when a player is at his best, and it may be for more than a year, although one year might stand out a little more. Usually, that period is not the years leading up to the so-called “peak,” because those are learning years.

    One other thing: does this information apply to ALL players, or just position players?

  86. George

    June 29, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    One other thing, Matt. I never said that Utley, Howard, or Rollins were in their peak years. It’s wrong and ridiculous to cite those players in an argument against the contracts for Victorino and Blanton.

  87. The Dipsy

    June 29, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Don, my good friend and respected poster, I don’t recall there being 6-8 teams interested in Ibanez. Or even 4-6 for that matter. Or even 3. But if there were 6-8 teams clamouring for Ibanez’s services, then RAJ should have bowed out. As soon as the deal was done I hated it and I hate it to this day and will never stop hating it. But…Ruben has an MO. See the player, sign the player. It can’t be said that Ruben doesn’t get his man. He just overpays. It’s better than the bad old days when the Phillies used to ALWAYS come up short when we were inevitably treated to the infamous words “we made what we feel was a competitive and generous offer, but………”. We used to bitch then that the Phils wouldn’t do what it takes.

    I don’t mind overpaying a little for the right guy but Ibanez wasn’t him.

    The Dipsy

  88. Don M

    June 29, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Phillies, Mets, Nats, Braves, Cubs, Angels is 6…

    and those were just the ones that got reported.. Mariners were still interested in him, but as a DH, so he turned down their arbitration offer

    MLBtraderumors has lots of articles about it

    Adam Dunn would have been a TERRIBLE fit on this team.. adding yet another swing for the fences bat was what the last thing this team needed. Combine that with the fact that he was so bad in LF (the easiest defensive position), the moved him to 1b, praying that he could at least catch baseballs thrown his way … he’s a DH, but he plays in the National League

    The Dipsy, my good buddy, did you like having Raul Ibanez on the team last year, when he was carrying the entire team on his shoulders, and allowing us to hang in 1st place until Chase and Ryan and Jayson and crew got their acts together? I did

    Who was a better option at that point? Burrell? Bradley? Dunn? … they made the right choice for the lineup and the clubhouse … sometimes you overpay for your needs (just as every single team does every single year for Starting Pitchers, Closers, which is why the overall market is so high)

  89. Johnny Snowden

    June 29, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    George … i completely agree. I argued for Polly all off season and when you look at the rest of the 3B free agent class, I can’t help but notice Beltre is about the only one doing anything. So we signed him for 3 years … that’s what a “win now” attitude means. Except for the Yankees, nobody gets to have their cake and eat it too.

    As far as everything else goes all you sabermetric jerks can suck on Moyer’s fastball. Sure his “VORP plus BABIP minus the square root of OBA +/- HR allowed times his age all divided by the number of times I’ve simmed his season in MLBtheSHOW” isn’t as high as some of those other guys but he’s winning games.

    I just don’t understand how some of you guys can make everything so finite just because it you plug some guys age into an algorithmic formula that despite all our hopes … does not in fact predict the future with any more accuracy than a fortune cookie

    we got a couple of guys down … and it’s a bummer. but look at all we’ve lost to injuries this season and how we’re still in this thing and theres oh three months left!

  90. The Dipsy

    June 29, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Don, I would have taken Dunn in a heartbeat. Or Bobby Abreu. Yes, Raul had a great 1st half. And at the end of his contract, will we think all that money was worth having a guy on out team that had one helluva half a season once? The Cubs were so interested in Raul they signed Milton Bradley. Bottom line: I would not have outbid a slew of teams for Ibanez’s services to the tune of 33M (or whatever it is) for 3 years. He’s not worth it and never was.

    The Dipsy

  91. George

    June 29, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Dipsy, the Cubs WERE interested in Ibanez. They signed Bradley because the Phils beat them to the punch on Raul.

    Ibanez was a much better clubhouse presence than Abreu, who the Phils had already gotten rid of once. And he had a higher batting average and played better defense than Dunn.

    Also, in case you haven’t noticed, he seems to be hitting better lately, and this particular season is far from over. He won’t stay at .240.

    But why debate a person who’s answer to the Phil’s bench would have been a player (Dye) who’d already turned down a bench role and also turned down more money than that person proposed paying him?

  92. The Dipsy

    June 30, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Then don’t.

    The Dipsy

  93. Don M

    June 30, 2010 at 10:06 am

    I will …

    Adam Dunn in a lineup with Ryan Howard would have been a NIGHTMARE, you know it… I know it… and everyone in baseball knows it.

    Bobby Abreu contributes so much to winning that he never lead this team anywhere, was then traded to the Yankees, who also couldn’t win with Abreu on their team …

    Milton Bradley, on this roster would have been a NIGHTMARE.. he would have been the quickest possible way to close that “window” to the playoffs every year.

    Like i’ve said before too, when you look at stats for past years.. nobody ever break it down into half seasons

    so in looking at Raul Ibanez 2009:

    .272, 34 HRs, 93 RBI, 93 Runs Scored

    That is pretty damn impressive.. and more than our money’s worth at an average rate of $10.5 M per season

    The Cubs actually paid Bradley more last year $9 M, than we did Ibanez $8.5M (both after signing bonus)
    They’ll pay less for him this year, $9 M vs. $11.5
    but MORE next year $12 M vs. $11.5

    so total cost of Ibanez was $1.5 M more, for a professional.. that we didn’t have to trade for ruining our team.

  94. The Original Chuck P

    June 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Nice post, Don.

  95. tea

    July 1, 2010 at 5:30 am

    Thank you for sharing.I like Ìú¹ÛÒô

  96. Pingback: Abandon all faith ye who enter here | ClickAdvise

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top