Oswalt Dominiant as Phillies Take Mets Finale – Phillies Nation
2010 Game Recaps

Oswalt Dominiant as Phillies Take Mets Finale

This recap will be short, just as the 2 hour, 15 minute game was at Citi Field. Roy Oswalt was masterful, tossing a complete-game, 113-pitch, four-hitter in the Phillies 3-0 win over the happless Mets.

It was Oswalt’s 12th victory of the season, his 6th straight as a member of the Phils. It’s also his first shutout of the season, and it couldn’t have come at a better time. Last night’s loss coupled with a Braves win, made the NL East a tie ballgame. The win now ensures the Phils a spot at the top of the division, no matter the outcome of this evening’s Atlanta-St. Louis matchup.

Chase Utley started the scoring for the Phillies with an RBI single in the first inning, plating Shane Victorino. A third inning, Ryan Howard single scored Placido Polanco to make it 2-0. Raul Ibanez added another with a solo homer in the seventh, and that was more than plenty for the third ace.

You can’t ask for much more out of Oswalt. He’s blossoming during a pennant race and is providing the Phils an added weapon which will absolutely come in handy.

Tomorrow, the Phillies head to Florida for a three game series with the Marlins.



  1. Pingback: Oswalt Dominiant as Phillies Take Mets Finale « Acrylic Sports

  2. Keegan

    September 12, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    H20 looks particularly dominant. Hamels has a start this good and keeps his scoreless streak alive, and you can bank on our top three in the rotation all having sub 3 ERAs.

    That’s a beautiful thing.

  3. pheeling it

    September 12, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    do the eagles have a nation cuz i could gripe all day today, what is goin on???

  4. Lefty

    September 12, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    I don’t know pheelin it- I’m not much of a football fan.

  5. jeff

    September 12, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    What a great day. My Phililes win and My Giants win. OH YEA. Plus bonus time the Eagles lost. YEA. Kolb who is an average QB will be out for a while. Vick will get stopped when teams start to prepare for him. Just wish Vick would meet Dexter. PIG. Good job Reid calling all the timeouts with five minutes left. You are the problem not Mc. Watch him crush the Cowboys. REID AND VICK SHOULD MEET DEXTER.

  6. Manny

    September 12, 2010 at 8:56 pm


    Oswalt was dominant and it was great seeing Utley, Howard, and Raul (the meat of our lineup minus Werth) get some RBIs.

  7. charlie

    September 12, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    What are the chances that our former ragarm kyle loshe can beat the braves. He’s leading 2-1 BUT the Braves are starting to rock him. I’m not too hopeful. We need some luck for the sagging cards to win this one.

  8. paul garrett

    September 12, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Let’s hope JRoll gets/stays healthy even though I love pulling for Valdez.

  9. Ben

    September 12, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    whats our tally for complete games and how does that compare to the league? we have to be dominating that category.


    September 12, 2010 at 9:35 pm


  11. Mostone

    September 12, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Aaaaaand, the Cards are piling on the runs.

  12. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Give me a break. Mcnabb is taking no one anywhere. Reid sucks. Nice play call at the end. And the very first play of the entire year is illegal formation? I guess they didnt have like 7 months to prepare for it.

    But this is phillies nation

    Big win. The pitching is just to dominant to worry about a mediocre team like Atl. Nice to give Madson a day off. He is the only one really over worked. The only one needed to be monitored.
    Utley and Howard hitting. Forget about it.
    Only worry about colorado who may never lose again. And the rays in the final series.
    6-1 Braves losing. dont need to be from mensa to see they arent a threat. And wont be so stop worrying abot them and the impending series. The final series is especially nothing. They will be eliminated from all contention and the Phils will have best record in NL wrapped up.


    September 12, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    6-1 CARDS

  14. Brooks

    September 12, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Loshe just hit a 2 out single to knock in another run for the Cards, next batter Ryan hits a triple now 6-1 Redbirds


    September 12, 2010 at 9:51 pm


  16. miked63

    September 12, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    hudson gettin lit up almost at 100 pitches in 5th inning
    6-1 cardinals man on 3rd—– philly stick to baseball , your slammin kolb on one half of football ? The move to kolb was all about the future not even this year. The Eagles gutted the roster the last couple years and are now one of the youngest teams in the league. It was time to turn the page. All the new young eagle players supported the move cause they want to carve theyre own legacy. I’m a big mcnab fan he helped give me the best 10 years the eagles ever had. It was time though, he hasn’t played a full season in years and he’s not part of the future.
    It doesn’t matter if the eagles are 8-8 this year or the redskins are better cause neither one is goin to SB. You can’y bury Kolb already , in donovans 1st year he made alot of mistakes like all rookies do and the eagles were 3-13 , Kolbs 2 starts last year were pretty good give the kid time. ( breakin your stones on the stick to baseball comment)

  17. George

    September 12, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    The Phils get a shutout performance from Oswalt to stay on top, they get key hits from Utley, Howard, and Ibanez, Madson gets to rest, and people are talking about football on a Phillies baseball site?

    Excuse me if I don’t get it.

  18. miked63

    September 12, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    lighten up george —- the people your refering to are here EVERY nite and theyre phillies loyalty need not be questioned. Were philadelphia sports fans and in case you missed it the eagles did play theyre 1st game today. Theyre here everynite for 162 games and playoffs , splattering in some eagle talk on sundays isn’t gonna kill anyone.

  19. ChuckS

    September 12, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Anyone got news on J-Roll??

  20. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    I am tired of the Jayson Werth show.
    Hes gone after this year anyway so who cares about his feelings?
    Hes the lone anchor.

    7-1 cards

  21. ChuckS

    September 12, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    I would really like Jayson Werth to give me a reason to miss him when he goes, but he really makes it easy to see him go.`

  22. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    Id love to see Werth do well. Hes a 2 month rental at this point.
    But liek I said hes gone. So bat him 7th. Or bench him. I dont care abotu his long term feelings.
    I want rollins 5th and shane 1 in the line up.

  23. miked63

    September 12, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    It should stay shane 1 jimmy 5 —– for alot of reasons
    but will charlie do it ?


    September 12, 2010 at 10:39 pm



    September 12, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    7-2 CARDS…..

  26. pheeling it

    September 12, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Do people realize Roy Oswalt is pitching exactly like Cliff Lee did last season?

    We all know what that means, he’s going to be a machine in the postseason.

    Cole Hamels is pitching like 2008. That year, Cole Hamels CARRIED us to a World Series title. NL Championship series MVP, World Series MVP. He’s pitching that well!!

    And we have Roy Halladay? I’m pretty sure we have the best rotation in the league. Nice article on MLB.com about Oswalt.

    King Cole and the Roy-al Court!

    I’m going all in with 2 Roys and a Cole

  27. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    And Pheeling

    Lee is not so good and he wouldnt be here in 2011 and Oswalt will be in 2011


    that worked out pretty well huh?

    Man when I was talking up the Rocks a month ago you all said too far out. I am insane. Yadda yadda yadda. I hope I am wrong. I REALLY want them out of it. They particularily scare me in in a 5 game series.

  28. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Mike need to get Jimmy back first.
    Team can coast a bit now with a suspect Werth and hope he snaps out of it.
    He needs a visit from John Smoltzs sports psychologist.

  29. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Watching the Braves game tongiht. The ESPN broadcast is of course in Bobby Coxs anal cavity. Hes got 15 playoff appearences and 1 world series title. Same as Charlie. Cox woulda been booed out of philly 10 years ago. 1 title with all those hall of famers? Shameful.

    Orel Hershiser is maybe best baseball color commentator going.
    Maybe Mccarver will get sick and we could have Orel for NLCS and WS. Would be nice.

  30. pheeling it

    September 12, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    Go Cardinals! The Rockies? I guess they always pose a threat but I’m really happy about how the postseason may work out.

    The Padres, the Reds, the Braves would be an easy postseason, I guess I’d rather face the braves than the Rockies too. They are good at home but Hudson is got cranked tonight.

    King Cole and the Roy-al Court

  31. Brooks

    September 12, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Feeling a lot more of the same sentiments – we wont be hurt too bad when Jayson is gone. He is contributing nothing this year offensively.

    Are the Cards going to screw around with this game?

  32. pheeling it

    September 12, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    I’m just excited to see these three in the postseason. It’s revenge time

  33. pheeling it

    September 12, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Were getting our ring back

  34. ChuckS

    September 12, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    one step a time fellas, one step at a time

  35. Andrew from waldorf

    September 12, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Braves elimination number is 18
    Same as the rockies.

    Yea chuckS I am actually conservative in real life. But I like to have fun here and I do believe the things I say.

  36. Ryan

    September 13, 2010 at 1:06 am

    How about this?

    Out of the 6 active pitchers in baseball with the lowest career ERA’s in September, the Phillies have 3 of them…

    I don’t know about you guys, but I’m drooling at the mere thought of that.

  37. ActuallyChilled

    September 13, 2010 at 2:34 am

    im just going to have to express this in writing. h20 is the absolute filthiest thing to hit philadelphia since rocky. i said it. seriously… this is ridiculous.

  38. ActuallyChilled

    September 13, 2010 at 2:35 am

    i mean its disgusting. totally insane.

  39. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 7:06 am

    My buddy Keith is in Arlington, Tx for 3 weeks (poor guy had to give up his tickets… ) and he said yesterday there were some young people walking out of the stadium with brooms as the Rangers swept the Yanks.

    Regardless, he will be making every attempt to see the Rangers play the Mariners near the end of his stay there and I was wondering if anybody has any suggestions? Places to see? Eats? Philly friendly bars?

    Appreciate the info – thanks

  40. George

    September 13, 2010 at 8:07 am

    You’ll notice, I hope, that I said nothing negative about the people posting Eagles material, only that I didn’t get it. I also said nothing negative about football itself, which I personally find mostly a mindless bashing-together-of-bodies. If you found my “I don’t get it” comment offensive, perhaps you’re the one who needs to “lighten up.”

    I still don’t-and never-will understand Eagles comments on a Phillies site, especially by major Phils fans. I’d figure more than anyone else, they’d be the ones to praise a really good performance by the Phils, and not decry a mediocre performance by the Eagles.

  41. George

    September 13, 2010 at 8:20 am

    As for the Jayson Werth bashing: Yes, he isn’t driving in runs a lot, he’s very streaky, and once in a while makes a real bonehead mistake. But “contributing nothing” to the team is absolutely untrue. His OBP is up there, which means he’s on base a lot, ready to be driven in by someone else. He’s one of the league leaders in outfield assists, and defensively is one of the best. He’s still the right fielder, because he’s the best option right now.

  42. Bacardipr05

    September 13, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Looks like Jimmy will be on the Dl…this sucks when he returns he will have to get his timing back and by that time it may be too late for him to be effective…

  43. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 8:34 am

    The comparison to Werth’s performance with RISP in 2009 vs this year is what all the stink is about. People forget about all that he’s done and just focus on one thing and that’s pretty unfair.

    As I said last week….when/if Jayson’s gone next year….people will be crying the blues big-time about it if Domonic Brown fails to impress. And that’s WAY too much pressure to heap on this young kid.

  44. jeff

    September 13, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Jimmy Rollins is not the same player anymore. He is always hurt. I like Brown but in my opionion will never ever live up to the hype. Only time will tell. I realize he has to get more at bats but I just dont see a big time star in him. I could be wrong.

  45. Kate

    September 13, 2010 at 9:06 am

    @pheeling it: King Cole and the Roy-al Court. I love it!

    About the Eagles, I’m currently waiting out the Michael Vick era before I give a crap about that organization. Hearing that both Kolb and Bradley were sent back in after sustaining concussions just reinforces it.

    Jayson Werth is hardly contributing NOTHING. When Brown is in the outfield, his relative inexperience shows. Brown’s a very good ballplayer and he’s going to be a great ballplayer, but he’s made some mistakes that the veteran Werth wouldn’t make.

  46. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Next year I look forward to seeing what Brown can do. Jay cannot seem to get past his issues with RISP as quite a few players are (phinally!).

    With the strength of the Phils starters, being without Werth may not hurt the Phils as much as it could have at any other time.

  47. bfo_33

    September 13, 2010 at 9:31 am

    A huge game by Oswalt yesterday, not only in the win, but giving the bullpen a rest.

    Agree on the “Werthless” crap. Brown may be a good ballplayer some day, but Werth is an excellent outfielder – on display this past weekend with the assist at home, multiple nice catches in the field. Brown may have the tools to some day get to Werth’s level, but he’s a bad outfielder right now.

    Very impressed with Vic at lead-off, didn’t think he had the discipline for more than a game or 2 to just get on base, then use his speed. Jimmy will be missed, but if Vic can keep a lead-off mentality instead of blindly swinging for the fences, it may not be a major blow.

    Should be able to light up Miller again tonight. Braves look sluggish. We won’t win every game, but keep winning series and we’ll be in great shape.

  48. Richard

    September 13, 2010 at 9:35 am

    “He is contributing nothing this year offensively. ”

    This Werth nonsense is simply embarrassing. Without Werth, the Phillies are not in first place, period. He has indeed struggled mightily with RISP, but that is not the only measure of either “contribution” or even clutch. When he gets on base late in the game and someone else drives him home, that is clutch for both players. I watch these games and he is routinely in the middle of late-inning rallies, scoring runs. He leads the team in runs. The Phillies will be worse next year without him. Don’t be stupid.

  49. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Braves look sluggish and Hudson is struggling big-time. Derrick Lee is a bust so far.

    Still…can’t let our guard down. The Braves haven’t gotten this far to just completely fade away.

    Need to win 2 of 3 the rest of the way.

    And…is ANYTHING gonna stop the Rockies??? Sh*t!!!

  50. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 9:44 am

    And for you Iggles fans (sorry George)…I found this funny:


  51. bfo_33

    September 13, 2010 at 9:50 am

    A week ago, I thought the Rockies would be a strong contender for the wild card, now I think they just may pull out the division.

    I think the Pads, Braves, and Cards have the same problem – good pitching that is getting fatigued, a few nice hitters, but a dead bottom of the line up. Agree not to let your guard down, don’t think any is going to make the playoffs.

    Phils win East
    Reds Central
    Rockies West
    Giants WC

    Not that it is done yet, but if it were April, the only surprise is the Reds, who aren’t total sleepers – picked as in the hunt for the wild card.

  52. psujoe

    September 13, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Oswalt is way out pitching Lee last year. 0.92 WHIP and 1.98 era. Lee last year for Phils 1.13 WHIP, 3.39 era. However, Lee had the great playoff run. Heck of a deal for RAJ.

  53. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Stupid Richard?
    At this point, given the Phillies strengths it would probably be the best chance to see what a young guy can do, especially with a huge upside as D Brown. Sure, he is not proven but you look for those kinds of opportunities to put someone like that in the lineup. If he does not work out you do have Ben or the potential for trades (I am talking next season of course).

    But stupid? In his last 242 at bats, since July he has 19 rbi while for the most part hitting 5th in the lineup. Stupid? Jayson has struck out 139 times and knocked in 66 runs.

    Last year and the start of this year I was all for keeping Jay on the roster at all costs. But honestly, weigh out Jayson’s plus’ to this team for 2010:

    Get on base – plus
    Speedy – plus
    knocks in runs – minus
    aggressive on the base paths – no (confused perhaps?)
    good defensively – plus
    hits with power – so so
    key in clutch – big minus
    leader in the clubhouse – you’d have to ask the guys
    represents the team well to the community – not really

    He’s headed out, hopefully to the AL and that’s OK by me.

  54. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 10:31 am

    So, Brooks, if you’re so against Jayson Werth and his value to this team….why do you want him to go to the AL??


    September 13, 2010 at 10:32 am

    No one wants to face us in a short series,the big 3,the O coming back,our experience will be too much in the playoffs.We are still the best team,who really are even better then last year!!!!!

  56. Richard

    September 13, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Yes, Brooks, stupid. Your post doesn’t improve matters.

    It may very well be that in the long term, Dom Brown will be better than Werth is, but the odds that he will be next year are not strong.

    One of my points was that his ability to get on base is, in fact, “clutch”. And what I was responding to was the excessive anti-Werth “arguments” on this and other sites. To say that he’s made “no offensive contribution” is massively wrong-headed, factually wrong, and, yes, stupid. And, frankly, though we can all remember his one or two boneheaded baserunning gaffes, Werth is a very good base runner.

    “represents the team well to the community”? are you serious?

  57. jeff

    September 13, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Guys do you watch these guys hit lefties. Howard looks like a AAA player. Ibanez struggles as well. Brown has a hard time. Utley gets hits. We need a righty bat in this lineup.

  58. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Does anyone here know how hard it is to have 66 extra hits and 66 RBI bating 5th for a major league team?
    Its almost impossible. Unless you hit .160 with RISP and under .100 with risp and 2 outs.

  59. sportsphan

    September 13, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Bravoman didn’t post here today. What a surprise! I also LOVE that “King Cole and the Roy-al Court”. Someone needs to put that on a sign at the stadium.

  60. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Chuck – how about the names of Rod Barajas, Wes Helms (at least in the past) – Jayson does scare me, we have seen what he can do and that is a ton more than what either Rod or Wes has ever done.

    Jayson does lead the team in runs scored. Excellent – so if he were not in the lineup would we be missing 90 runs somewhere? Or is there a chance that someone else might get on base in his stead and oh yes, hitting 5th knock in some key runs once in a while..

    I brought up that last point in reference to him blasting the civilian who was definitely out of his boundaries. #1) the guy had his kid with him and the little kid had to listen to this star berate his dad – not good #2) after the incident, Jayson expressed remorse to the guy and I love this, by publicly saying I’m sorry. Good but could have been a little more of an effort – did not have to be but certainly could have been.

  61. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Wow stupid and embarrassing.
    I am embarrassed that Werth is costing himself money.
    Richard you are stupid.

    You are attached to a player. Like they were with Lee.

  62. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Jayson Werth is a very talented guy. For all his speed, he doesn’t steal bases. For all his power, he doesn’t drive in runs. For being right handed, he can’t hit lefties. Jayson Werth does not belong in the five hole. The five hole is the black hole when he is in it. He is batting .160 w/RISP and has 9…count em…9..rbis against lefties this year. I understand that one of Charlie’s strengths is “sticking with his guys”, but his stubborness re staying with Werth in an rbi spot is verging on Reid-ian at this point. We’re 145 games in. He’s not doing the job. Bat him up in the lineup please so he can stare at pitches to his heart’s content. Or should I just remind y’all of the clinical definition of “insanity”? Pretty soon this stops being Jayson’s fault and it starts becoming Charlie’s. IMHO.

    The Dipsy

  63. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 11:10 am

    When the Dipsy is the voice of reason?


  64. The Original Chuck P

    September 13, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Keep winning series…

    Brown will be fine when his number is called. Werth is better right now and might even be better next year because Brown might need some time to adjust but this is great experience for him and if Werth is leaving, Brown will serve as an adequate replacement.

    Braves showing some signs of cracking (Tim Hudson not looking so good against tough opponents) but the J-Hey kid is something special. I’ve been slow to annoint him as the next big thing but I’m there… I didn’t know if he had what it takes to get it done when it matters but he’s a flat out STUD. Hitting .391 in September. Power numbers aren’t jaw dropping (that is a recurring theme this year) but he’s got a .399 OBP for the year (that’s 2 pts behind Pujols). Truly remarkable. They’re a year or so away from being really good… they’ve got a young pitcher on the farm who is going to be very good (Julio Teheran). He’s 19… ended the year in AA and managed to maintain a 3.38 ERA (very good for AA) and strikes out batters at a decent clip. Throw him and Jurrjens and Hanson into a rotation with a Hudson and add an impact bat at one of the corner infield positions… they’re going to be very good.

  65. Richard

    September 13, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I’m not “attached” to Werth; I just know what I’m talking about. But there’s no talking to you guys, so I don’t know why I’d bother.

  66. fred

    September 13, 2010 at 11:17 am

    It’s unbeliavable that some people think Werth is a replacable part of this offence. He leads the team in OPS, probably the most crucial offensive statistic, in addition to playing a good RF. Here’s a statistic for you: Werth VORP- 39.9, Howard VORP- 30.1 and Utley VORP- 29.1. Werth is 2nd in slugging %, 3rd in OBP, 3rd in BA, leads the team in walks, 3rd in RBI, 2nd in HR, 1st in doubles. Do you see what im getting at ? He is AT LEAST the 3rd best hitter on the team in every statistical category, on top of playing well defensively and on the basepaths. He is CLEARLY the top hitter in the team in terms of VORP, which doesn’t even take defense into account. I’m not saying down the line Brown wont be able to replicate this, but right now in the heat of a pennant race it is ridiculous to get on Werth for ‘not hitting in the clutch’, or ‘dumb baserunning mistakes’. Hitting in the ‘clutch’ is such a small sample size of statistics that the numbers can fluctuate wildy from one year to the next, this has been proven even in the case of Derek Jeter, famed for his ‘clutchness’. When all the big guns went down with injuries this year it’s important to remember that Werth stayed in the lineup and kept the club afloat. He may price himself out of the Phils budgets for next season, but all the time he’s here he’ll continue to be a key part of a very good offense, and the best right handed bat.

  67. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 11:25 am

    66 extra base hits
    66 RBi
    He hits 5th behind Ryan Howard and Chase Utley

    Hes gone. So whatever. Let him go to the AL east and hit .160 with RISP
    Just dont cry when he vanishes. The discussion is has he earned a right to be on a post season roster? Lately I’d say no.

  68. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 11:33 am

    “earned a right to be on a post season roster.” ??????

    So…who would you recommend instead?

  69. fred

    September 13, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Ok, so his average which is higher than Utley, Howard, Rollins, Ibanez and Victorino counts for nothing ? He’s hit more doubles than anyone else, more HR’s than anyone but Howard, he walks more than anyone else, he runs the bases better than the majority of everyday players, he plays an outstandind right field… so leave him off the postseason roster ! This is just an astonishing argument which i can’t believe i’m hearing. Did you know Werth is 26th among hitters in the entire game in VORP, our next highest hitter is Howard in 55th ! But sure, dont put him on the postseason roster because clearly Fransisco and Brown can replicate that production

  70. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I think the postseason roster should consist of only AA and AAA players….because clearly everyone of the regulars has some kind of flaw and flat-out sucks.

  71. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I know that I don’t know or give a sh!t what VORP is, especially if its a stat used to rationalize Werth’s impotence at the plate once a runner hits second base. Good hitter. Bad clutch hitter. Everybody agree with that?

    The Dipsy


    September 13, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Yea,the comment about him not being on the post season roster is nuts!!!!!!!!But i think andrew was just saying he has not played well enough latley to be there,but of course he will!!!

  73. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Greg Dobbs has 10 extra base hits and 14 RBI
    Please look through history. 66 extra base hits 66 RBI
    Hitting first on the pirates or Nationals its almost impossible. He hits 5th behind Howard and Utley.
    Valdez has 17 extra base hits and 29 RBI

  74. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Richard Says:
    September 13th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    I’m not “attached” to Werth; I just know what I’m talking about.


    I’ll have to take your word for the first part, but as for the second part, you’re clueless. A .290 hitter, batting 5th, with 66 RBIs? Either the team is awful or he stinks out loud in the clutch. Werth has been terrible. Sorry to have to say it. I wish I could tell you otherwise.I’m actually embarrassed for him at times.

    As for the talk about them needing a RH bat in the lineup, they’ve done pretty good without one this season..


    September 13, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I agree he has not been clutch this year!!!!

  76. fred

    September 13, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Theres no such thing as a clutch hitter. Players simply don’t get enough AB’s in ‘clutch’ situations for the stats to be consistent. For example, derek Jeter hits .356 in ALDS games, as opposed to .262 in ALCS games and .321 in WS games. Does this mean he’s unclutch because he hits better in ALDS games than ALCS games ? No, because he’s had about 200 AB’s in each situation, which isn’t a large enough sample size to say he definatley ups his game in certain situations.

  77. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Fred, do you watch the Phils on a regular basis?
    Even if we all can agree to keep Jayson on the roster, he does not need to be batting 5th. First or second would be fine, let him steal some bases, hit doubles, singles and get walks – fine.. just not batting 5th. Your statement about “no such thing as a clutch hitter”? What on earth are you schmokin my friend?!

  78. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 11:57 am

    It’s a damn good thing that Philly sports fans are patient with their players.

  79. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    People are just biased against Werth right now… they’re either bitter about something or they’re too lazy to look at his career numbers (as well as previous seasons) and realize that this “anti-clutch” argument is simply flawed.

    The team is winning series, at the top of the division, and all people can talk about is “Werth is so anticlutch, bla bla bla we won’t miss him.” How about Oswalt’s 4-hitter? Or him dropping his ERA BELOW 3.000? Or how about Lidge’s extremely good numbers as of late? But nooooo… we got to find a scapegoat in the middle of all this winning, because, somehow, that makes sense?!

  80. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Jimmy Rollins. Lou Brock. Ricky Henderson

    All lead off men. None of them have more extra base hits than RBI.

    Its almost impossible. Then factor hitting 5th for the Phillies.
    Its terrible on a monumental level.

    He is the RH for the year. Another 2 months.
    Lets hope he gets hot. But when hes gone dont cry.
    I cant take the crying over over rated players.
    When hes gone its good. If he hits 15 homers in the playoffs thats good. Someone else will have to pay more for him.

  81. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Also, you don’t move him up the lineup because then you’d basically force a L-L-L heart of the order… and then people will bit*h about that, too. Just be patient. Werth is a streaky hitter.

  82. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Manny how can you have 40 plus doubles hitting 5th for the phillies and have 66 RBI?

    I am not hating. You almost have to not drive people in. Like as a game. I couldnt hit 5th for the phils and have 66 extra base hits and only 66 rbi. Its almost impossible. If you tried to do it intentionaly you couldnt.

  83. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    # Chuck Says:
    September 13th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    It’s a damn good thing that Philly sports fans are patient with their players.


    It’s been 143 games, Chuck.

  84. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    People are just biased against Werth right now


    No, Manny. It’s not a bias. It’s disappointment. Disappointment that he hits .160 w/RISP. Disappointment that he has 66RBIs with 18 games left. Disappointment that all season long I’ve watched him perform pathetically in big situations. And now you guys tell me I can’t talk about it, or that I’m being irrational for calling it what it is? GTFOH. Most of you guys saying this are the same ones who were crucifying Howard when he struggled for 10 games of the DL. Again, GTFOH.

  85. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Werth batting first is absurd as him off a playoff roster.
    He needs to step up.
    But hes gone so his feelings really dont matter.

  86. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    I’d like to point out that Jayson Werth had a career year in 09, an aberration to an otherwise decent, but not spectacular run in the majors. He isn’t hitting w/RISP this year. (Don’t get all excited, I’m not a hater. I didn’t use the word clutch, I simply pointed out a fact – isn’t hitting w/ RISP)

    Maybe he’s just more like the player he was for the other 7 seasons of his career, instead of the one we saw in 09? I’m sure that any team bidding for his services will see that. Take a look for yourself.


  87. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Goodness – quite a few GM’s in our little forum. There are a number of ways to measure “clutch”.

    I would suggest that a player that’s hitting .380 with runners in scoring position, as opposed to someone hitting .179 would be considered “clutch”, relatively speaking.

    I haven’t had time this morning to do the research but there is a statistic called “game winning rbi”. I would suggest that the 8 hole hitter probably has less of a chance to get an RBI that puts their team ahead by virtue of the fact that he probably has less at bats and probably less at bats with runners on.

    I believe I heard recently that Howard leads the team with RBI’s that either tied the game or gave the Phillies the lead.

    I think if you were to ask Phillies fans this year many would say that Chooch has been extremely “clutch” this year.

    Once you agree on a definition I think that clutch CAN be measured.

    However, Werth’s contribution to the team needs to be addressed in ways other than his RBI total. It has what has made this Phillies team what it’s been for the last few years. variables such as chemistry, leadership, general clubhouse presence.

    The numbers will not us allow to resign Werth – and in my estimation, he will be sorely missed

  88. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Yeah…. and your point, biz??


    Here’s the thing. Jayson Werth is gonna do something to win a game for the Phillies that either propels them into the playoffs…or in the playoffs.

    And all of this will be forgotten.

    It’s another classic case of “What have you done for me lately?”

  89. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Again, look at current career numbers and previous season numbers and oh-my! He’s not so anti-clutch afteralL!!!!!

  90. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Werth had 52 extra base hits last year with 99 RBI
    He has 66 this year with 66 RBI

    Basicly he is a space cadet and needs to see John Smoltzs psychologist.

    Not a sermon just a thought.
    How can you have an issue with people pointing out the facts?

  91. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    I also dont get the attachment?
    Burrell is carrying San Fransisco. Bring him back. He gives quality at bats at least.

  92. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Is Burrell a FA? Was it my attachment you didn’t get?

  93. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Sorry the above questions were for Andrew.

  94. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Yeah…. and your point, biz??


    My point, Chuck, is that we’ve been patient. Isn’t that what you accused us of not being? 143 games into a 162 games season and Werth hasn’t come around. How long are we supposed to wait so we don’t have you accusing us of being impatient? How about 161 games? Or how about in the NLCS? When can we officially point out that Werth and his 66 RBIs from the 5-spot are garbage?

  95. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Bring Burrell back?

    Over my dead body!!!!

    keep that mofo on the west Coast

    There is a oft used measurement nowadays – WAR (Wins Above Replacement)

    According to SI; 0 or 1 is easily replaceable, 4-5 is All-Star, 7 and above Albert Pugols.

    Werth’s WAR this year is 4 even. Last year 3.2., 2008 4.2

    Pat Burrell??????????????

    – STOP SMOKING THAT CRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  96. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    # Manny Says:
    September 13th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Again, look at current career numbers and previous season numbers and oh-my! He’s not so anti-clutch afteralL!!!!!


    The last 143 games indicate a definite trend that says otherwise. 66 RBIs? Vic is right behnd him and has spent a huge part of the season batting 1st. Utley spent 7 weeks on the DL and is within striking distance.

    The man has been awful with men on base. Why are people trying to say otherwise? Why is it that the same people who crucified the Big Piece for 2 weeks off the DL are the 1st ones to jump up and defend Werth? I wonder….

  97. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    WAR. LoL. That is a bottom of the barrel SABRmetric number.

  98. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    @ lefty
    Pat signed a minor league deal wit SF
    Hes carrying them by himself to the playoffs.

    So yes hes free to go wherever.

    So your telling me youd want werth hitting 5th tomorrow over Burrell?
    Sell crazy someplace else.

    Pretty funny though.

  99. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    I’d go for Burrell for the right price. 34 years old next year- maybe $5M.
    IMO Giants will resign him.

  100. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Just for a point of reference.
    Pat has 15 homers in 232 ABs for the Giants in that cavern
    Pat has 42 BB in 78 games. Thats more than Howard has this year
    Pat has an OPS of .904 in that cavern and playing in the NL west

    Why would you value Werth more?
    Just wondering

  101. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Andrew – Werth can play D.

  102. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Biz says
    Why is it that the same people who crucified the Big Piece for 2 weeks off the DL are the 1st ones to jump up and defend Werth? I wonder….

    Finish the thought man , I’m curious what it is you wonder?

  103. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Please keep Pat Burrell and his lead feet and universe leading strike out looking % as far away from Philly as possible.

    He has 40 RBI’s and 15 dingers in 79 games with SF. Which translates into 80/30. over a season

    How do you hit 30 homers and only have 80 RBI’s?

    Burrell over Werth?

    as I said earlier – STOP SMOKING CRACK – IT’S BAD FOR YOU

  104. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    @ biz
    WAR is somthing they made up to value players like Beltran over winners. I also laugh at it.
    I am a fantasy geek but I wouldnt even use WAR.
    Pete Icavillia probably has a better WAR han Pete Rose.

  105. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    The Phillies were “patient” with Hamels, were’t they??

    Last year…he sucked….and everybody wanted to run him out of here.
    And now, look at this year. Because of patience….and understanding that players ebb and flow,have good years and bad years….Hamels is now back in everyone’s good graces.

  106. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I believe that Jayson will be missed sorely – kind of like a tooth ache!

    Sure, his performances last year and the year before led us to believe that he has the key ingredients of what the Phils need batting #5 but this year he has done everything possible to disprove that.

    It’s him, it ain’t us.

  107. The Original Chuck P

    September 13, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    He has 66 extra base hits… your point?

    66 RBI is certainly not great given all those xbh but that has a lot to do with what Werth has had going on around him. With all of those injuries, why would a left handed pitcher (or any pitcher, for that matter) give Jayson anything to hit with a man on base? His OBP with men on base remains pretty high (.364), which tells me he’s being selective… at this point, he’s probably pretty anxious to drive in runs with RISP and I’m sure that has a lot to do with his struggles in that situation (yes, he seemingly suffers from Daulton-itis and it would take a professional to dissect Werth’s psyche) but I’ll take those 66 xbh any day of the week.

  108. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Pat is carrying a team. With Timmy not being Timmy to the playoffs.
    Werth is an anchor at this point.
    Me? Id like to see Pat hitting 5th tonight.

  109. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I AM biased. Totally biased. I am biased against a five hole hitter, who has some 144 or whatever games to prove himself a credible RBI threat, and has been unable to do it. Use his skills, which are vast, somewhere else in the lineup, because hitting with guys on base is not a skill he currently possesses. We’ve waited long enough for him to get hot. I’m not hating on the guy, I just want him out of the five hole. It would be different if our offense was good. Its not, and he is a big reason why we are not scoring runs. Put him somewhere else.

    The Dipsy

  110. The Original Chuck P

    September 13, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I love Pat Burrell… but that ship has sailed and anyone who suggests we head in that direction loses all credibility, in my opinion.

    You mention his time in San Fran but fail to talk about what Pat did in Tampa… what led him to his outright release and minor league contract. He’s streaky and we know that… that experiment will end badly for SF (they won’t make the playoffs without other guys stepping up).

  111. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    WAR stat is a joke. Who cares what someone can do better than a replacement player/ minor leaguer

    “what is it good for, absolutely nothing, say it again”

  112. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Chuck P hes a national leaguer.
    I don’t necessarily want Pat back. But I also dot glamorize Werth.
    Im saying at this point Pat is better than Werth.
    Is that even debatable?

  113. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    IMO Tampa was Pat the Bat’s career aberration, not the norm. His age is my only problem, but for the right price/short term deal with Jayson gone, he could be a bridge to DBrown or whoever.

  114. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Pat Burrell is better than Jayson Werth???

    You have got to be kidding me!!! Pat Burrell CAN’T run, CAN’T really field that well (because he can’t run) and has an average arm.

    But you want him over Werth who can do all of those things very well ….as well as hit (whether it’s “clutch” or not).

    Pat Burrell was a great Phillie. He will be forever and fondly remembered for his contributions. But I don’t want him back.

  115. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    In fact, I’ll take Raul over Pat….just for his grit and hustle….every single time.

  116. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Game 7 World series. Defense out its a DH

    Hitting 5th behind Howard. Werth or Burrell?

    I watch west coast games. I know Pat is carrying a team to the playoffs by himself. Maybe I am biased.
    Put Werth on SF and they are eliminated now.
    Kinda like the now benched Rowand.

  117. Ryan

    September 13, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Sorry to be a kill joy guys, but Domonic Brown is not likely to play regularly for us next year or in the near future, for one reason. He, replacing Werth, would put too many lefties in the middle of our lineup. (Chase, Howard, Raul, Brown) It would be too easy for opposing managers to neutralize that late in games. Regardless of how poorly Werth performs with RISP, he provides for us a solid right-handed bat in the middle of our lineup.

  118. Ryan

    September 13, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Also, if we let Werth go, we’d better hope to find a good-hitting, right-handed right fielder in the free agent market to fill in for him.

  119. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Pat has 53 RBI in 316 plate appearnces in Sf and Tampa

    and he was released in the midst of that

    Werth has 66 in 587 plate appearnces hitting 5th for the phillies.

    By the way the Phillies score alot ( or used to or do with Rollins hitting 5th) and San fran is in cavern and plays in a division with san diego and LA both pitchers parks.

    Things that make you go hmmm. Haters

  120. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Well…that get’s to Dipsy’s point doesn’t it, Andrew. Maybe Werth shouldn’t be in the 5 hole.

    And….with the DH…only Burrell would be in that role anyway….because he can’t really field that well. Jayson wouldn’t be the DH.

  121. bfo_33

    September 13, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Now this has gotten ridiculous. Echo Chuck to an extent, but Burrell was one of the most frustrating players in Phillies history. Without warning, he goes cold for several weeks at a time, where he can’t even buy a hit – looks like he goes up there hoping for a walk (does the little back hop, hopping to fool the ump into thinking the pitch was inside). At least Werth gets on base, plays well above average d (even with the boneheaded miscues included), and is an above average baserunner.

    It sounds like a few of you are pretty sure your girlfriend is cheating on you, and are magnifying every flaw, so when the break-up comes, you can fool yourself into thinking it was for the best.

    Werth is not a great player, but he’s above average, supplies pitching match-up problems, and the Phils are better with him. Enjoy the rest of the season, worry about next year in Nov.

  122. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    I just dont get the Werth infatuation.
    And walks are bad? Yhey are probably one of the best tools in baseball for about 1000000 reasons.

    Bottom line step up Jayson. He should be putting up mind booggling numbers. Setting himself up for the 100 million dollar contract for another team.
    No chance ill regret his leaving. Like Rowand or Abreau or Thome. Its time.

  123. biz

    September 13, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    It sounds like a few of you are pretty sure your girlfriend is cheating on you, and are magnifying every flaw, so when the break-up comes, you can fool yourself into thinking it was for the best.


    66 RBI’s from the 5-hole is a cleft palate

  124. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    We are going to get a right hitter in FA to share time with DBrown next year. Maybe not a straight platoon but someone there to step in and hit (and can also spell Raul). I like Michael Cuddyer. He might be available in the offseason if the Twins don’t pick up his option but that a step up from what the Phillies would do. Look for a Jason Michaels (when we had him) type. In a vacuum, I would take Burrell hitting 5. Of course, Jayson Werth is better every place else and in the field. Werth can’t hit with guys on. Period. He’s not a 5 hitter.

    The Dipsy

  125. bfo_33

    September 13, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Jessica Alba with a cleft palate is a whole lot better than Oprah without one.

    Not saying Werth is God, maybe he needs to be swapped out in the order with Vic or Polanco to relax a bit, but there is not a better all around option for RF and the 5 hole than Werth.

  126. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    last year Pat Burrell batted .216 with 77 rbi’s and 16 homers with Tampa Bay.

    Nuff said


  127. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    By the way…Burrell has 40 rbi’s with SF

    Not 53

  128. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Andrew, I have been watching some of the NL West games too and I’d say Aubrey Huff and Burrell are contributing about the same. But, with Lincecum & company starting to show some life – it really makes them a scary team.

  129. psujoe

    September 13, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Look at the bright side. Maybe Werth’s value is coming back to reality. Pghils need a good RH bat in the lineup other than Chooch. Yankees will sign Lee and Crawford so they’re out. Werth will not get a 5 year deal, IMO. Way too iffy.

  130. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I stand corrected, 53 w/SF/TB

  131. RichieAllen

    September 13, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Just a note on Roy Oswalt……He tasted the playoffs years ago,then, goes 5 years without any postseason.And now he is a man on a mission.
    I love this guy as a pitcher and I’m glad we have him.Such a great attitude too.
    We are so lucky to have the big three ,almost like having…………. Jess Alba with a cleft palate?

  132. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Actually, he CAN hit with guys on. Just not this year.

    Werth with RISP:

    2008: .274
    2009: .279
    2010: .158

    So what this tells me is that he’s juts having a down year hitting in the clutch. Next year it could be completely different. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that it will.

  133. psujoe

    September 13, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Chuck, If you’re aGM do you bet 5 years $70 million on it?

  134. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    I hear ya Chuck and this were the first half of the season I would put a little more validity in those numbers. So..that said. He can’t hit with runners on this season.

    The Dipsy

  135. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Pat had 77 RBI sucking with the rays last year?
    Lets hope Werth can get to 77 hitting 5th for a team that should be in the world series.

    @ Brooks hes carrying them. could Werth ever carry a team?
    I am not to afreaid of SF unless Timmy is Timmy. If he is fear them.

  136. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    No disagreement at all Chuck – we’ll just watch what happens next year on an AL club

  137. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Oh my god.. I don’t know what’s worse, some of the comments here or the Gameday posts.

  138. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 2:13 pm



    4/50 with an option.

  139. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Richie you are right.
    The big 3 are what its about. They all come back next year too.

    Could almost have a Mets line up and win with those guys. Almost.

  140. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    4 years 50 mil?
    Hes a phillie then
    but thats not the ball park

    4 years 65-70

  141. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Manny…check the SOURCE of some of the Gameday posts and the ones here.

    I think you’ll see a pattern…

  142. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    hell 4 years 50?
    I want him back and Ill president his fan club. But not happening.

  143. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    If I may?

    What to do about Rollins?

    He’s signed through next year, after which he’ll be 33 going on 34.

    Clearly, he’s not aging gracefully.

    Anyway know what the farm system has in the way of Shortstops.

    he has been extremely difficult to watch at the plate this year. Still solid in the field though.

    Throughout baseball it would seem that the day of your SS hitting .315 with 25-30 homers is a thing of the past.

    Or, was it just a steroid thang? (mr. Jeter excluded)

  144. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    I think Jayson’s a very good player. And I think 12.5 is fair….VERY fair in this market and with his history. But not worth 14-15 per year. He’ll probably get that from Boston so let him go there. He will excel and help the Bosox. Count on it.

  145. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Rollins is more than solid n the field. He is the best.
    His days hitting first may need to be over. I like him fifth or sixth alot.

    at 8.5 he is this year and will next year be a bargain.

  146. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Andy, I think the case can be made that his days of hitting leadoff were over in 2006.

    But, that’s just my opinion.

    Actually, in the very short time he batted 5th he did a credible job. And he still has some pop.

    And he’s a switch hitter. Can Charly get him to hit 5th,6th all year w/o pouting.

    What if he hits .265 with 68 rbi’s next year batting 5th. Do we resign him at 8 or 9?

  147. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Phill you bring up a point that a lot of us (well, me..) dont even like to consider. Reality. JROLL has been hurt a lot this year – who even wants to consider – gulp – what’s next?

  148. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Chuck, Why are you attacking others again? I called you on this a few weeks ago and I’m doing it again. They have no right to their opinion on a public forum? You bash the gameday posters, even though at times you are one.

    First I defended jeff to you and tell you he’s a true Phillies fan, and then I see you telling him the same thing. Now you bash the gameday posters again.

    State your case, link it with fact, and leave the personal stuff out.

    If you don’t like the”source” of the gameday posts, if it’s not within your intelligence level, then it’s easy dude, just like changing stations on a radio dial, just go away, —far away.

  149. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    If he hits 5th for the phillies all year 90 RBI is a must really 100 is.
    Would be nice to see the old man try him differnt places. Maybe lead off some. Maybe 2nd maybe even 7th or 8th.
    Rollins as a switch hitter with some pop and some speed and the glove is very valuable if hes flexible.

  150. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Great. I’m glad too see evrryone is coming around:


    THE CASE FOR UTLEY IN THE TWO HOLE: Yes, he has more power than Polanco. Polanco is hitting .309 and he’s a righty. He’s fine in the RBI spot and allows Ryan to be sandwiched by righties. Utley OBP is much higher and keeps a lefty that can run somewhat in the two hole.

    The Dipsy

  151. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Whoa…Hold on.

    First of all, Lefty, I was simply agreeing with Manny. See HIS post at 2:11.

    Secondly, I wasn’t attacking anyone. And if I was it certainly wasn’t you.

    Thirdly, some of the posters on Gameday can get pretty negative and I see a pattern sometimes on here during the day. Do you like all the constant negativity….ALL the time??

    Fourthly, why all the anger towards me, “DUDE”? I thought you were one of the good guys. Am I now wrong about that??

    Fifthly, I’m not changing the dial and going anywhere. So can we just all get along here?? I think we all are passionate about the Phillies. let’s just use that as common ground and get along. For Christ’s sake, we’ve got a damn good thing here…with this team and with this site.

    Peace, everyone.

  152. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Switch Victorino and Werth
    And be fluid. If Werth comes out of his coma hit him higher in the line up. I have no issue with utley 2 and S or R 3rd.

  153. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Well said Chuck

  154. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    do you think I am negative?
    I think this team wins the WS this year. Id bet the house on it.
    And I favor them next year.

  155. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    That doesn’t make sense. Werths OBP is thru the roof.

    The Dipsy

  156. RichieAllen

    September 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Chuck for President.

  157. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Atta boy, Andrew.

  158. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Dipsy you can bat Werth wherever you want for his last 6 weeks.
    Shanes been pretty good lead off. I just want Werth to produce.

    Do we really want to put the spcae cadet in a new role? You want him out and about on the bases? How many times did he get picked off in the playoffs?

  159. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Phun Phacts

    Which Phillie has the highest OBP this year?

    Carlos Ruiz – .394
    Utley – .385
    Werth – .380

    (Yes all you Werth haters – 3rd on the team with a .380)

    Maybe Chooch should lead off.

    j-Roll?…..a dismal .324

    Vic?….not much better than J-Roll. However, something tells me that given the job full-time he just might try to take a few more pitches before he pops up to 2nd.

    Clearly, although it seems like this team SHOULD have a legit lead off guy……….it doesn’t……….and hasn’t really during this wonderful run.

  160. Kate

    September 13, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Victorino’s been solid in lead-off. No room for Werth in that spot.

    At this point, we need Werth in the outfield more than we need Domonic Brown in the line-up. Maybe Werth could follow Chooch?


    September 13, 2010 at 3:35 pm


  162. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Ruiz could hit second but you dont want him to. You want him handling the staff and defending. Thats enough pressure and work load.

    Ted Williams took alot of crap because he would take walks. He refused to swing at a ball out of the strike zone even to help the team. He wasnt capable of swiniging at a ball.
    Id trade 100 points on Werths OBP for 100 more on his RISP
    Just saying

  163. Bob in Bucks

    September 13, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Wow, that was a lot of posts to get to the obvious conclusion. Werth’s value has gone down from the “sign him NOW” April to the “ditch-him” September. In the end he is a good ball player and it comes down to how much which comes down to what others will pay him.
    As I have said before, Phils will make an offer but will probably be outbid. Phils have shown the ability to pass on overpriced talent (see Rowan, Burrell, etc).
    We will need a RH bat next year and Amaro will find one but probably not up to the level of Werth.
    Rollins is the real issue . I would like to see a trade here because his relatively low salary and good pedigree makes him great bait for some team looking for mature leadership up the middle. We need a good glove and a .340 OBS hitting maybe .270, low RBI, speed. If we can find one we can swap out Rollins for some bullpen help. Bullpen will be the upcoming challenge.


    September 13, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    BOTTOM LINE-We all hope werth steps it up a notch and helps carry us to a WORLD PHUCKIN SERIES!!!!!!!

  165. Brooks

    September 13, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I think they win too but, I ain’t bettin my house on it –

    Next year and the year after as a matter of fact. Phils ARE going to set the modern NL standard similar to that of the Yanks in the late 90’s into the early 00’s (6 WS appearances in 8 years, 4 wins). By making 5 straight WS appearances.

  166. Phillistein

    September 13, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I was kidding about Chooch leading off


  167. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    There you go Brooks.
    I truly believe this team in the NL can be like the Yankees of the 60s. But you cant overpay is all.

    There is a legit discussion about Ruiz hitting second. It actually makes sense. Of all the guys on the team he always gives you a quality at bat. If he was another position Id want him hitting second.

    Bob in bucks nice link. I ordered a new mouse pad.

  168. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    The Phils will let Werth walk and will find a more than suitable solution for RF. Let’s not worry about. They can’t afford to short change a position next year when the team is in the last year of the “win it all window”. In 2012, its a different story…lots of important guys go FA. The Phils will do right by us for next year.

    The Dipsy

  169. Lefty

    September 13, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    It was a pretty broad brush, so no, I didn’t know if you and Manny were talking about me, or someone else. It feels like an attack, if not on me then on some quality people in here.

    Apparently where you see negativity, I see perfectly normal fan reaction. I see people expressing their opinion. I see lively debate. Look, I’m not the PN police, I’m just asking for some civiliity. You want us to all just get along? Good. -don’t put us into groups with negative connotations

    Have a great day, should be back later, go Phils!

  170. jeff

    September 13, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    I am the most negative person on this board. We can all agree. Putting that aside lets just be proud of this team. All the joy they have brought to us. This could possibly be the third straight season to a world series. Are you kidding me. Thats great. These guys have no business being in first with all the injuries and the offense playing like a little league team at times. Heres what I know. They have HEART. They have three of the best pitchers in baseball. Oswalt is out of his mind, as Hamels. Doc we expect to be Doc. Howard is heating up. We will get it done like every year. We have been there before and know what it takes. I just love turning on the tv and watching these guys. Yes, there are nights I want to rip what I have left on top of my head. Just the passion I have for this team. Then there are nights I say we are the Phillies. No matter win or lose I just love watching these guys play ball. Rollins will be back but in the meantime we get to enjoy watching Valdez at short. There is no player in the game that has an arm like he does. Just enjoy the ride folks. Its been a up and down season but I know we would not want it any other way. This is Phillies baseball. Lets get another series in Florida.

  171. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    There is negativity that’s normal and there’s negativity that’s not. I get it. And, I’m not putting anyone into groups. At least not trying to anyway.

    Manny and I weren’t attacking. Just making a point about SOME (not all) of the Gameday posts. Don’t believe me?? Go back and re-read them the morning after sometime. Some of the stuff that comes out of who I would assume are fairly intelligent people is utterly unbelievable. As a Phillies fan I’m actually embarrassed sometimes. Seriously.

    But, again, I wasn’t referencing you, Lefty.


    September 13, 2010 at 4:02 pm



    September 13, 2010 at 4:03 pm


  174. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    For the record, jeff…you’re ok. At least you admit that you can be negative. And no one can question your intelligence or your passion.

  175. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Jeff likes Chris Wheeler
    go figure

  176. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    So do I, Andrew.

  177. Mostone

    September 13, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Thanks for the good news about J-Roll, Jay!

  178. psujoe

    September 13, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Sox make sense for Werth. They lose Lowell’s $10.5 and won’t tender Hall ($8.5). A lot depends on what they do with Beltre and Ortiz because a few of their guys got nice contract bumps.

  179. Phan in the outfield

    September 13, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Chuck’s right. Go back, read old posts. There’s “normal” & there’s over-reaction, over-the-top, whatever you’d like to call it. I don’t live in Phila. This is not “normal” fan reaction. It is not.

    Thanks Chuck, Manny, Phillistein, Richard, George, Kate, Fred, Orig ChuckP. Solid posts. I’ve been trying to back Werth since I noticed the hugely neg talk a while ago.

    This team has won the division 3x, the NL 2x, been to the WS 2x in a row, winning in ’08, & they’re threatening to do at least part of that again this yr. No other Phillies team has done that in my lifetime. Sue me if I actually like them. I happen to like that other teams wrote a few of these players off. The Phils gave them a chance to prove they could still play: some past injuries, some past age. Most imp – passed the other teams.

    As fans we’ve gotten used to hearing the Phillies and their names discussed as The Team and/or a player(s) to be dealt with. Maybe we’ve gotten VERY used to it and its made us demanding, impatient, & intolerant.

    Somebody posted: how long should we wait for Werth’s RISP issue to end? My answer might be: We should show the same patience we’ve shown Hamels & Lidge, as an example. Lidge has had injuries & re-injuries & a year’s worth of ups & downs. We still have to pitch around him. When he has the mound we’re still not sure if he’s going to close or give the game away.

    Emotionally poor form — Hamels kind of has a lock on that. His ups & downs last yr are legend. Questionable brains? He didn’t waste time on the basepaths. He whined to the media during post-season. Bad form, bad timing, & he was still given the benefit of the doubt … and time.

    Btw, during that same post-season period – Werth was clutch.

    Given that this season isn’t over, Werth’s numbers aren’t over either. And given that the vast majority of his current numbers are good/really good. He should probably be given the benefit of the doubt and time by the fans & mngmt.

  180. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    It’s a perfect fit for him. Winning atmosphere. Passionate fanbase. Money. He’ll become an instant cult hero there.

    I’d love for the Phillies to try to re-sign him. I just don’t see it happening.

  181. Manny

    September 13, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Even more doubles off the Green Monster.. and a beard that they will love..

    It does seem like a great fit… but I’m still hoping that we make a decent offer and that he accepts it, somehow.

  182. Phan in the outfield

    September 13, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    David Hale at Philled In wrote an interesting article on Sept 9 about Jayson Werth. Lots of numbers. If you haven’t seen it already I thought some of you might be interested: http://blogs.delawareonline.com/philledin/2010/09/09/is-werth-worth-the-money/

  183. The Dipsy

    September 13, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Phan – A stellar attempt at en even handed and prudent approach to Werth’s problems. As for me, I don’t need to see 18 more games of stranding runners to convince me that Werth is having a bad year in this regard and should be moved in the lineup. Not removed…just moved. What I think is even odder about Werth’s season is his better performance against righties than lefties. I have never seen a switcharoo like that. I remember the days of Werth flinching at curves from righties and killing lefties. Now, just the opposite. In any event, he is really hurting the Chi and the fung shui in the lineup.

    Two options: Wait and hope that the last 18 games will not be like the first 144, which to me seems silly, OR proceed proactively and try to fix the problem with Jimmy in the 5 hole. Charlie should do it because guess what?: Jimmy can’t be any worse than Werth is now and it will be good for Jimmy.

    The Dipsy

  184. Wis

    September 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    I respect quite a few who have already commented here, and I am way late in the werth talk, but all I gotta say is Werth = RH bats…what do we do then folks?

  185. Chuck

    September 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    feng shui

    We all need to show up in games in white robes and turbans and when watching at home be sure to burn incense and do yoga.

    We’re sure to win the division with that sort of energy flowing towards the players.

  186. Andrew from waldorf

    September 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    I guess I just see it as moot hes gone. I dont see him taking under market to stay here. BTW Jason Bay has 6 homers for his 4 year 68 million
    My only point was hes gone anyway so we dont have to worry about his feelings.
    Even if he was having a big year Id want him to go at over 3 yr 36 mil
    When you goto 3 straight world series you cant keep all your players. sorry guys.
    Thats what these blogs are for discussing the team and having fun

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top