Phils Win, Leapfrog Braves for First in NL East – Phillies Nation
2010 Game Recaps

Phils Win, Leapfrog Braves for First in NL East

Citizens Bank Park —

During the middle of a seemingly normal at-bat, fans began to cheer. All in attendance were well aware of what was happening across the turnpike in Pittsburgh. The Atlanta Braves were losing, the Phillies were winning, and all was right with the world again.

Wait, you thought it would be that easy? Wrong.

With the game tied at seven in the eighth, Shane Victorino slapped a two-out, bloop single to center field. He then took second base on an aggressive attempt that Charlie Manuel said was his own doing. Placido Polanco followed that up by going to right field, scoring Victorino, and giving the Phillies an 8-7 lead, which they would not relinquish. Polanco was one of many heroes to step forward.

The rallying began for the Phillies in the fourth inning, down 3-1. The fun picked up as Raul Ibanez went yard to the opposite field to take on another run. Ibanez had been previously been mired in a power drought –  it was his first homer since August 24. The real fireworks came in the fifth inning, just as Joe Blanton was settling in.

Shane Victorino led off with a home run to right field to tie the game at three. Later in the inning, with one on and two out, Ryan Howard unloaded one into the left-center field seats to make it 4-3 Phillies. A 4-3 lead became 7-4 by the seventh inning, as the crooked numbers were scattered across the board. The two run inning was made possible by a Jimmy Rollins sac fly on a 3-0 count and a huge Raul Ibanez triple scoring Ryan Howard.

Blanton was, at times, erratic. He was also, at times, on point. Blanton pitched into the seventh, giving up four runs (two earned) while striking out five and walking two. Just another day at work for Blanton who has bent, a lot, but hasn’t quite broken over his past few starts (excluding Colorado).

Marlins starter Chris Volstad was shaky as well, giving up three homers. All told, the big righty gave up five earned over five frames.

Florida’s offense nearly kept pace. Mike Stanton continued to terrorize the good people of left field as he smashed his third homer in two days off of Jose Contreras in the seventh. Logan Morrison is also on a tear, which didn’t stop tonight. He went 2-for-4 and has reached base safely in 28 consecutive games. The late Marlin comeback, however, wasn’t enough. It couldn’t stand up to the offensive fireworks, which were needed tonight. Nearly every Phillie in the lineup made their presence known.

Defensively, Jayson Werth provided the lowlight of the evening in the eighth with his errant throw behind the runner at third base. Werth, who was a late insertion into the order, was then pulled by Manuel later that inning on a double-switch, solidifying his spot as the goat for the night. The bullpen tried to trump him, but fell just short.

Ugly appearances by Bastardo, Romero, and Contreras stood out from the bullpen. Luckily, Chad Durbin and winning pitcher Ryan Madson were there to douse the flames and send the faithful home happy, knowing that first place has a new, old tenant.

NOTES: Brad Lidge was unavailable due to a tender right elbow. He said after the game that he would “definitely” be ready for Friday’s game against the Mets. Charlie Manuel somewhat reiterated that thought in his press conference.




    September 7, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Lidge said he hyper-extended it 2 app. ago………HOW LONG DOES THIS TAKE TO HEAL??????ANDREW,MIKE,ANYONE..LOL

  2. bacardipr05

    September 7, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    What a crazy game the Phils overcame adversity errors and sloppy bullpen work. This is what Championship caliber teams do. However we have to play better even the best of teams cant overcome to many Blunders. We Phinally caught the Braves…..WooHooo!

  3. Andrew from waldorf

    September 7, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    I believe him that he will be back by friday.
    Best record in the national league and home field for every series. i like the sound of that.
    Braves elimination number is 23

    Beware Sf and Colorado. Both are playing super.
    Will be tough for the Braves to survive and make it. Thier 4 games with st louis will have alot to say about it.

  4. Bruce

    September 7, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    The Phillies tried their darnest to give the game away with so many errant plays especially Werth’s stupid decision to throw behind the runner at THIRD BASE in the 8th inning!! Manuel eventually pulled Werth off the field in a double switch. Werth heard an earful from the jeering crowd. It was a downright sloppy performance by the defense but the offense led by Polanco (3 hits including the RBI single that made the difference) saved the game for a crucial win and really.. that’s all that matters at this point of the season.

  5. miked63

    September 7, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    He should be ok philly , they HAVE to rest it though. Todays trainers know theyre $hit and will get him right. I’m a little concerned moving forward though. If he throws a pitch with improper mechanics he could aggrivate it. Were gonna have to watch this they’ll treat the hell out of that elbow in whirlpools etc. ——- better yet , andrew will get all the religious artifacts out and pray that elbow back to health

  6. loupossehl

    September 8, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Sure is great to see the Braves finally leading the wild card race. Nothing – well, almost nothing – would make me happier than to see the Braves make it as the wild card team.

  7. miked63

    September 8, 2010 at 12:06 am

    They might not keep it though / I think the giants or rockies are gonna get wildcard. Phillies will not relent the division now the rest of the way.
    Cardinals also not out of W.C and the braves play them 4 times.

  8. bostonkate

    September 8, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Phils in first! Phils in first! Aaaahhhhyooooo!

  9. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 12:17 am

    ha mike
    whered you come up with that?
    I was seen as insane a few weeks ago lol
    Need that best record in NL it will be huge if get it

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  11. jason in burbank

    September 8, 2010 at 12:27 am

    so great to see the phils atop the NL East. Just wondering…why on earth the ESPN standings has in the Percent Chance of Making the Playoffs category – Phils 74.7% and Braves 82.6%

  12. miked63

    September 8, 2010 at 12:37 am

    I assumed loupossehl was a braves fan , and nobody said you were crazy that i can remember at least i know i didn’t. I still think the braves have as good a chance as anyone to make the playoffs. Don’t forget we play them 6 more times. Theres enough games left that anything can happen. Pickin the Braves to not make it did go against the grain a little especially a month ago when they were playing well. I still don’t think theyre completely done . The rest of sept they have 10 home and 10 away games. They better win tomorrow. The 4 home games after tomorrow with the CARDS are HUGE for both teams.Then they stay home for 3 against NATIONALS then go on 9 game road trip 3 mets 3 phils 3 nationals . Then finish with the PESKY fish for 3 and phils for 3 to end season at home.—- They have 23 games left i say they go 13 n 10 to finish with 92 wins. Phils get 95 wins. —— And andrew predicts ?
    What , braves finish 10 and 13 ?

  13. Land Shark

    September 8, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Phuck yea!

  14. PhillyPhanaticLookAlike

    September 8, 2010 at 1:22 am

    Your right miked63, the Fish are pesky. I think we have a good shot with those six games against the Braves, we excel against good teams, not so much with the lousy ones. I was lucky enough to watch tonight’s game from a skybox in the hall of fame section. My Dad was entertaining clients there and had an extra ticket. Damn, now I’m spoiled, I’m used to standing room, not free drinks and food!

  15. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 1:37 am

    SD won again tonight. They may have righted themselves. I think 2 teams come out of the west. Colorado has the swagger but they have a lot of ground to make up. If they had 4 vs the braves Id pick them.
    St louis needs to sweep the braves in that 4 gamer.
    I think there are only 2 NL teams that can beat the AL team in the series. The phils and the Rockies.

    Nice to goto bed in first place. Please score 7 for cole tonight.

  16. loupossehl

    September 8, 2010 at 3:32 am

    Mike63 –

    I’ve been a Phillies fan since 1947 – check out the name “Lou Possehl.” (That makes me the old guy around here, I think.) No, I most definitely am not a Braves fan – I didn’t even like them when they were the BOSTON Braves. But if the Braves win the wild card, that means they lost 1st place in their division … and, barring some wildly improbable event (Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt leave baseball for “Dancing with the Stars”?), who is that team that would ace them out?

    That’s why, when it comes to winning the wild card in the NL East, I’m the Braves’ biggest fan.

    Another reason, by the way, is that if the Phillies and Braves come out of the NL East, and assuming it’s Cincy in the NL Central and the Cardinals are out of it, that leaves one team to come out of the NL West. If the Padres can pull it together, then only they emerge from the West, and Colorado and San Fran are eliminated. The Rockies have made a habit of getting ridiculously hot at the end of the season, and the Giants are dangerous. So if those two are eliminated it’s a very good thing, and I really like the Phillies’ chances in an NLCS of Phillies – Braves – Cincy – San Diego.

    Go you Braves – just enough to make the playoffs, that is.

  17. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 4:24 am

    Lou that’s pretty funny stuff there. Dancing with the starters…
    And you know what? I kind of like your idea of the WC coming out of the East now. I posted from the start of the season that the WC would probably come out of the West but, your point has some favor to it. The Braves would have to face either the Reds or the winner of the West (after a 10 game losing streak, I don’t have much confidence in SD and, Lincecum was more himself last night along with Huff & Burrell hitting hrs in a SF win). Whoever the Braves face in the NLDS will end their season.

    Tonight’s win is crucial for the Phils. Hamels needs at least 3, maybe 4 runs to work with for his record to even out at 10-10.

    Uh oh – I watched the replay of Ibanez’s triple and saw that Ryan was not running that well. Any news about that?

  18. Greg

    September 8, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Brooks, Ryan’s foot still hurts from the ankle injury he had.

  19. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Thanks G –

  20. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Hey Chuck, can we get a “No way Duke beats Lowe tonight?”.

    Atl has Prado, Infante, Heyward, and pitching. Not much else. The starters are worn down – era has crept up through the month of Aug, continuous to do so in Sept. I’d love to see them win the wild card, but think the adrenaline has worn off – they may be done.

  21. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Nice write up Pat, but missed one guy – Polanco. I really think he is the MVP of the team. Every time up, I expect him to do the right thing – get a hit, move the runner, work the count,…. Feliz is a better defensive 3rd baseman (PP isn’t bad, just not as good), more power, but just imagine where we’d be if you swapped the 2 – it wouldn’t be 1st place. Not sure you can say that about any other starter. Another surprising game by Vic, swung at good pitches, took a few balls, swung for the fences on the right pitches. I hope this version of Vic sticks around through October.

    Hope Cole can go at least 7, the offense keeps it up tonight, gives Durbin (what a game) and Madson a rest.

  22. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 7:21 am

    Forgot McCann on Atl. Think they go 0.500 at best through Sept, lose the WC spot to the Rockies (hope I’m wrong, would rather see Atl or SF in the playoffs, though still think the Phils are better than CO).

  23. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 7:32 am

    Wow!! I STILL can’t believe that the Pirates beat Hudson!! This kid McDonald either threw some kind of game or the Braves had a case of something the Phillies have been all-too-familiar with….”offense-itis”

    Just to recap…yesterday at 5:31 PM I said:

    “No way we see 1st place tonight. Hudson vs. the Pirates?”

    And before that, at 3:35 PM I also said:

    “No way the Pirates beat Hudson tonight. I’d be willing to bet whatever on that.”

    Good thing nobody challenged me to that bet!!!

    Can Duke beat Lowe?? Who knows. I guess anything is possible. I’ll tell you though, if the Pirates manage to SWEEP the Braves, you’d have to think that it would be a fairly damaging blow. Especially if the Phillies win tonight.

    The Braves would then have to face the Cardinals and all their pitching, while the Phillies would be playing the Mets.

    Stay tuned……

  24. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Polanco has been the backbone of the offense. And guess what…he might win the Gold Glove.

    The Dipsy

  25. Bacardipr05

    September 8, 2010 at 8:24 am

    I hope that Lidge doesnt need another Cortizone shot. Not at this stage we never know since they both like to downplay injuries. If so do it now dont BS around for 2 weeks then say he needs a shot and rest.

  26. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 8:25 am

    It’s hard to figure someone with only 40 plus rbi, who started the season with 6 in the first game as being team MVP. I get it, he has been amazing and probably the most reliable hitter we’ve had but probably best for moving runners, getting them into position rather than scoring himself or knocking in runs. Of course an rbi is more valuable in a “W/L” atmosphere but moving the runners into position is so important too.

    Who would you give the team MVP to? Chooch and Poly are the 2 perhaps more sentimental favorites but I think I’d look to maybe Doc or even Cole –

    Hey Chuck, who would want to challenge you on those statements? Who would have guessed that the Braves would sally up to the Bucs?

  27. Brian Sr of CO.

    September 8, 2010 at 8:42 am

    SSSWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! Lets keep it though. I have a feeling the Phils and Braves will continue to leap frog, back and forth, but I hope they will take it again. I thought it was bad to get swept by the Astros, but then again looking at the 2nd half play, the Astros are a few games above .500, Pirates are probably arguably the worst team in baseball, and could very well be worse than most if not any of the worst Philly teams in our history, and that is REALLY sad. to get shut out though? Laughable. I hope they dont get so pissed by being embarrassed that they wake up (similar to the Phillies waking up a bit after being swept by the Astros actually). The Phils control their own destiny now. They needed help, got it, but now its all on them. If they dont win the division now, they can look at no one else but themselves.

  28. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Brooks, that’s why I felt comfortable making that statement yesterday. I KNEW that nobody in their right mind would bet against me on that.

  29. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 9:27 am

    I’m hoping that the Padres somehow hold on and win their division and that someone (Braves, maybe..) keeps the Rockies and Giants out of the Wild Card spot.

    I think the Rockies are the most dangerous team since they appear to be the most balanced… Giants are a little less scary because their offense is pretty bad and their starters haven’t been as sharp as expected… Padres are good as well but the Phillies have a lot of success against them. I’d rather face them than the Rockies or Giants.

    Sorry for the tangent… first things first! WIN THE NL EAST.

  30. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 9:37 am

    That’s ok, Manny. Nothing wrong with planning ahead!

    And, yeah….I don’t think I want to face the Rockies, either. We saw what they did in ’07 and last year they fought hard in the first round. They definitely would be playing with a chip on their shoulder if they faced the Phils.

    Right now it feels so good to say, “The first place Phillies.” (even if it is only Sept 8)

  31. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 9:40 am

    meant to say Sept 8…and without the smiley. But maybe he’s there for a reason!

  32. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 9:45 am


  33. Phillistein

    September 8, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Heard last night that Manuel had penciled in D-Brown to start and Werth talked him out of it. All of a sudden D-Brown pulls up a little lame.

    Don’t know if it’s true but they need to get DB a little more playing time. And only batting him against righties doesn’t do him any good.

  34. Phillistein

    September 8, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Be careful what you wish for in the playoffs. Braves are deadly at home. I’m hoping we’re three up before that last series at Turner rolls around

  35. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 10:11 am

    I would agree to get D Brown more playing time, sit Werth more.
    And like someone was saying yesterday, dont worry about what the Braves are doing – just take care of our own.

  36. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I’m a HUGE Werth fan…but last night’s antics by Jayson still have me baffled. Why on God’s green earth was he throwing BEHIND the runner?? Am I missing something?

  37. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Chuck – You are not missing anything. Werth is a space cadet.

    The Dipsy

  38. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 10:41 am

    I have cut Jayson slack all year. Through the slumps. Through the lack of clutch hittting. Through the incident with the fan down the right field line. Even through the bonehead mental lapse when he go picked off second on the intentional walk.

    But last night I lost it. That whole inning was a mess, but throwing behind the runner?? WTF!!!

  39. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Don’t tell me Charlie was not sending a message to Werth when he pulled him. Werth is already gone. He has been aweful for this season. Good luck with that big contract. Getting picked off at second by a catcher. Throwing the ball last night. Screaming at a fan. The hair and beard. Looks like a pig. He cant hit with runners in scoring postion. Worst average ever. I think we got everything from Werth for a few seasons. Let the Sox over pay with his agent. Just another Bay contract.

  40. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Jeff, a little harsh perhaps but Cholly did stir it up some when he pulled Werth last night and, I cannot wait to see someone else there in RF –
    Its time for him to get what he really is playing for, more money.

  41. Bart Shart

    September 8, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Werth will get a contract. He will be like Aaron Rowand in that he will sign a big contract and head downhill quickly. How big a contract he will get remains to be seen.

  42. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 11:11 am

    I don’t know if Werth was sulking because he wasn’t originally in the starting line-up, or if he was trying to overcompensate for a bad day at the plate. While he was throwing behind the runner, the guy (I forgot who it was) took a big turn around 3rd, a good throw from Werth would have got him. A big risk to take in a close game, though, but I understand what he was doing.

    I had a ten year tour of duty in MA in the mid 90s to the mid 2000s. The internet wasn’t as prevalent (or I wasn’t adept at using it), Phils news and games were hard to come by, but the Sox were everywhere. While I am a Phils fan 1st, through most of that period (through 2004), I followed the Sox more. They were competitive, entertaining, and accessible. One of the things I didn’t like about the Red Sox org and media is that whenever it came around to contract time or trades, all the contributions made by that player were ignored, and the guy became a bum. From Clemens (who deserved it), Mo Vaughn, Nomar, and Johnny Damon, guys who were worshipped suddenly became scat (Pedro was one of the few who escaped the wrath). While the media regularly characterizes Phils fans poorly, we typically treat ex-Phils a lot better (Burrell, Thome, Rowand, Schilling, Wild Thing,…).

    Werth has games (like last night) where he looks bad, and will probably be overpaid in his next contract, but the guy is still one of the better rh outfielders in the league. While he shouldn’t get a free pass on the boneheaded mistakes, don’t forget the contributions either.

  43. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 11:13 am

    @brooks. I dont think Im being harsh. I thought Werth was harsh when he took of the fans head in front of his kids. I do not care it was in the heat of the moment. He is a pro and act like it. These fans are paying your salary.

    I’m just gonna throw this out there, because someone has to say it…

    Isn’t Jayson Werth just a lil bit overrated?

    I mean seriously, we’re talking about a career .271/.366/.478 hitter with overrated speed and declining defense who is going to be 32 next season.

    His offensive “explosion” went hand-in-hand with moving to a bandbox of a ballpark and landing in a lineup full of great hitters. Take him out of that lineup and park and you can expect those numbers to decline.

    Anyone who thinks he’s a better value than Carl Crawford this offseason is a fool. Period

  44. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 11:14 am

    jeff, I understand your emotion. I really do.

    But….worst average ever?? Werth’s hitting like .295. It’s just the lack of CLUTCH hitting that sucks.

    I can live with the hair and beard. I can live with some mental mistakes….all players make them from time to time. They’re human.

    But throwing BEHIND the runner?? Wheeler said he committed one of the cardinal sins of baseball….and he’s right.

    I agree, too that Cholly was sending a message to Jayson. It just so happened that he wanted to double switch which was very convenient.

  45. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Jayson Werth isn’t even in the same league as Carl Crawford.

  46. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 11:23 am


    he is batting something like .157 with runners in scoring postion. Like 9 for 116. Thats a disgrace. I dont care if his batting average is .300. All that means is he is hitting with nobody in scoring postion. You want money you need to produce. Lack of clutch hitting. I wish that were so. There is NO HTTING with runners on. None at all.

  47. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 11:24 am

    just like a pitcher who has 15 wins but his era his over 4. wins do not matter. look at moyer. a product of a good offense. if he were playing for the pirates he would have very few wins and a very high era.

  48. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I do not understand how can anyone seriously buy the “Werth sucks with RISP” argument. It’s not like he’s only played professional baseball in 2010. Sure, he sucks THIS year.. but don’t you think that’s an anomaly more than a cold hard fact about Werth’s ability to drive runners in?

    Just look at his 2007-2009 numbers:

    With no runners on, he hit .270 AVG, with OPS .865
    With RISP, AVG .298, OPS .926
    With RISP and 2 out, AVG .279, OPS .925

    I really think he’s pressing because this is a contract year… but for those who think that he’s gonna go somewhere else and he’s gonna be Mr. Anti-Clutch there too, well, you’re gonna be wrong… He’ll rake, at least during his prime and late-prime years.

  49. Bobby D

    September 8, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I can’t view the comments section from my iPhone 4 anymore. I’ve sent an email, no response. Maybe someone can contact me, admins? I like reading the comments here but not being able to read and contribute is frustrating as hell.

  50. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Manny, I agree. And I am one that wants him to stay. I have said on here that when/if he’s gone….everyone’s gonna be moaning because his bat will be missed.

    This year he sucks with RISP…and maybe that’s because he’s pressing, yes. But, OVERALL, he’s been very clutch.

    I’m just pissed about him throwing behind the runner last night. I still love the guy and want him to stay, however. I’m afraid, though, that he’s probably gone.

  51. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 11:36 am

    manny good arguement but the guy is 32. the numbers will continue to drop. the bottom line is we did not pay alot for him and got a few good seasons from a guy that was never a starter. now we move on. just like arow. look at him now. he is done. the giants will eat that contract.

  52. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Maybe Werth just got caught up in that whole messy inning. Usually, he’s an excellent defensive outfielder.

  53. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Manny, I don’t disagree that this year is different than last but when you consider this year:

    He has made some terrible bonehead running mistakes
    He has made some bonehead fielding and throwing errors
    His temperance with the guy in the stands
    His comment (and I paraphrase) that this (contract year) is what he has been
    working for –
    Even some of his exploits with the press as they were asking him, trying to joke with him about his “caveman” look – hey, I dont mind that he snubs the press but when you put it all together, there is attitude. And most of us, myself included are tired of it.

    Phils fans enjoy seeing some of the alumni come back, except when they are in kill mode (Barajas! blows). I think Jayson will get a mixed reaction.

    Will Jayson hit for average, regain his power stroke and hitting with RISP – I kinda hope so for his sake. Except when he plays for the team that gave him his career break.

  54. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I am not sure why everyone thinks 31, 32 is old… Ruth did not hit his 60 hrs until he was 32 – Henry Aaron had his most productive HR years after he was 37

    I think prime is more a state of mind than anything else. After all, Jayson did not become a regular until he was deep into his 20’s. To me prime is between 24-34, maybe 36

  55. The Original Chuck P

    September 8, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I had a feeling the Pirates would come through for us (Chuck’s comment was in response to my post earlier when I said that the Phils would have a 2 game lead in the division by next week)…

    Last night was the ultimate “must win” for them. They had their ace going against a bad Pirates team with a 1/2 game lead in the division looking ahead to some bad pitching match ups and a tough Cardinals team. I just felt like the pressure would get to them. The Braves are in big trouble… not saying they’re going to lay down but it’s probably not a happy clubhouse right now.

    I’m worried about Lidge. He didn’t have his good slider on Monday night (I was at the game) and now this elbow thing comes out… Lidge has a tendency of forcing himself back into the lineup too quickly. I’m not sure if we can afford to DL him right now but we have to make sure that he’s healthy or else he’s going to be revert to Bad Brad.

  56. Bacardipr05

    September 8, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Where is his defense declining at exactly?

  57. The Original Chuck P

    September 8, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Sorry about the comment about Cuddyer’s option… misread that one.

  58. Phan in the outfield

    September 8, 2010 at 11:53 am

    The only thing I “heard” about Werth being in the line-up last night was from McCarthy & Wheeler (who btw get a “pass” on 162 games and barely ever shut-up saying stupid things – wonder what they’re paid). They said Werth was not originally in the line-up b/c he has a history of not hitting against Volstad. But Brown had a sore quad so Charlie put Werth in. Nobody said Werth talked himself in to the line-up.

    At this point I’m not sure I get the giant fascination with Domonic Brown. He’s been striking out, his avg is poor, he doesn’t field anything aggressively, and he hasn’t thrown with any direction from RF so far. But listen, he’ll get his chance. The fix is in: Brown is in, Werth is out (which btw, I’m certain Werth has felt for some time). But NOW is not the time for Brown to learning.

    There are a couple of players on the Phillies who are overrated. I’ve said so before. However, those players seem to get a pass on a lot of things, not the least of which are the number of defensive errors made. Honestly I’ve never heard any player get boo-ed the way Werth did last night for one freaking mistake.

    Yes – his RISP sucks. This has been discussed until everyone’s fingers are bleeding. But please do NOT start with a littany of a season’s worth of imagined mistakes. God, Werth has been blamed for everything including the zit the clubhouse janitor got last week. Enough people. IT WAS AN ERROR. It’s baseball. They happen. Does anyone believe he meant to do it? The whole game was sloppy, from the whole team, not just that one error.

  59. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 11:57 am

    jeff, 11:36 comment probably the best I’ve seen on Werth – “we did not pay alot for him and got a few good seasons from a guy that was never a starter. now we move on” (wait until Nov to move on, but otherwise very well done).

  60. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Ok. Wait. …..

    I really don’t have a problem with Jayson’s thing with the fan down the line. The fan….in MY opinion…..was wrong for interfering. Jayson could have caught that ball and the fan realized it afterwards. Maybe Jayson said the wrong thing…but when you’re in the heat of the moment trying to make a play you can’t always think about what you’re saying.

    And this issue with his contract?? That he said (paraphrasing), “I’ve been playing my whole career for this contract”??? So what. He SHOULD be playing for a big contract. Everyone on this site would do the same thing.

  61. The Original Chuck P

    September 8, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Werth is a great player that lacks focus… once a space cadet always a space cadet… BUT the guy can swing a bat, play defense (cannon arm) and he runs pretty well.

    You have to weigh the inevitable momentary lapses against what he does to help the team win ballgames. It took me a while to warm up to him because he’s always been aloof but he’s a great player… plain and simple. I hope he stays.

    Team MVP – Roy Halladay… am I missing something?

  62. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @Phan – Throwing behind a runner like that is a stupid play. It means your head is not in the game. Is it a mortal sin? No. And I doubt that Charlie pulled him just for that. Werth makes a lot of boneheaded plays and thats a fact.

    31, 32 is pre-tty old to be asking for a 5-7 year contract, especially when your body of work is somewhat limited. Its too bad that his wrist injury screwed him up for a couple of years but it did.

    RE: Lidge. The fact that he has gotten good results lately hides the fact that he is on his last legs. His fastball is gone. If y’all (Bravoman!) have noticed, Brad pitches backwards now. Starts everyone off with the little slider and tries to finish with the big slider and throws the fastball to keep the hitter off balance. Quite frankly, I don’t know how he has had this much success pitching like that. That slider that he starts out high so it can drop in the zone has no right not being parked in front of Gino’s Steaks (please order in english) every time its thrown. And now the elbow. I cringe.

    The Dipsy

  63. The Original Chuck P

    September 8, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    NON-BASEBALL THINGS ASIDE… fan interaction, SI article, media comments… I think that the good things he does at the plate and in the field are worth the 4-6 errors 3-4 bonehead running mistakes he’ll make in a season.

    With the Phils, his 162 game average looks like this:

    .281/.379/.500, 94R, 88 RBI, 28 HR, 18 SB

    Those are some impressive numbers… Dom Brown is capable of better numbers but I’m not sure if anyone is expecting him to do that next season. It might take him a half season as a starter to really get it going. Am I wrong for saying that?

  64. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    The absolute most Werth will get is 5 guaranteed years… and I doubt that. I think the Phils should make a 3 yr offer plus an option for a 4th yr, with little money in 2011 ($8 million or so) and approx. $12-15 million for the following years. People underestimate this guy because he appears to be “out of touch” or “in outer space” every now and then.. but I’m having heartburn just imagining how our nearly-all-lefty lineup would look like next year and beyond.

  65. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Brooks, I don’t know what old is in baseball anymore. Trying to compare to pre-steroids – Jim Rice fell off a cliff at 31, but Schmidt won an MVP at 37. Fangraphs,… usually state 28-32 is the prime, then decline, but they don’t define decline.

    I would think a guy like Werth, who can hit for contact or power, will have a slower decline, than a guy like Howard, who is going to wake up one day and not be able to catch up to a fastball (hopefully well into the future). I don’t think Werth has played his best season yet, but the question is whether we can get something close out of someone a lot cheaper.

    I hope I’m very wrong, but D-Brown makes me nervous. I think the outfield play will improve with time, but I really don’t like how high he holds his hands at the plate, and while not quite Burrell like, the swing seems very long. Looks like a recipe for disaster against a decent breaking ball.

  66. Phan in the outfield

    September 8, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Werth is 31. Not 32. Not sure why that constitues old, or past his prime, or whatever. He’s in shape and hasn’t been injured all season.

    Deeply bad luck that this was his FA yr & he wasn’t clutch. He was clutch during the ’08 WS & the ’09 WS (btw Ryan Howard was not). But memories don’t seem to go back that far these days.

    What I read that Werth said was “I guess you could say I’ve been playing my whole life for this season, to come to this point in my career.” He didn’t say contract.

    But who cares? He’s been playing since he was 5 yrs old to get to this point. He’s worked hard & through no fault of his own was out of the game for a long time, written off by baseball. He’s said about a million times how much he owes the Phillies for letting him play again, and how much he wants to stay here. But for whatever reason that seems to get lost in the negative crapola written by sports writers. So go for a big contract. It’s his right. And personally I hope he gives “journalists” a hard time. Believe me they deserve it. They’ve certainly made their living this season gunning for him.

    There is no rational reason why he’d deliberately make such a heinous throw last night. So I don’t get the massive rage toward him.

  67. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Im tellin’ ya….we will miss Jayson Werth at some point.

  68. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Original.. that’s part of the reason I’m iffy about just going ahead with Brown as a full-time starter next season.. IF he can put up Jayson Heyward numbers, be my guest and say goodbye to Werth whenever this season ends. But I really doubt that… I think that in 2011 he could be something like the 2010-version of Mike Stanton, and even that may not be the case.

    And then there’s the lefty-heavy lineup issue…

    All in all, I think management will figure out a creative solution to the problem. There are lots of options (resigning Werth, platooning Ibanez or Brown with some new guy, find a “werth” somewhere…who knows).

  69. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t have “massive rage” toward him. As most of you know…I am one of Jayson’s biggest fans on here.

    But throwing BEHIND the runner was pretty dumb. And I am having a hard time understanding why he did it.

  70. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Very well said, Phan in the outfield!

    We sometimes suffer from memory loss…

  71. The Original Chuck P

    September 8, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    The silly mistakes are maddening… Jayson is his own worst enemy.

    Mike Stanton is hitting a HR every 15.28 AB… the league leader in that category is Mark Reynolds, who has a home run every 14.1 AB. Mike Stanton has more HR’s than Jayson Heyward in 164 fewer AB’s. Heyward has a better BA but that’s about it. So… if Dom Brown could give us Mike Stanton-esque production, I would be ok with that.

  72. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Chuck – a differnce in the way we look at things. And you know what? I’ll never know this feeling but if I were receiving over $7mil a year for playing baseball, I dont know, winning more championships might be more important to me than another say 4 or 5 mil a year. Being part of a winning team might never be in his path again.

    When is enough enough?

  73. Phan in the outfield

    September 8, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Dipsy: What info said Werth is asking 5 – 7 yrs? I haven’t seen any facts (either from the FO or his agent). The only numbers I’ve seen were speculated by sports writers. They write inflammatory and “interesting” things that are most likely to cause “talk” with the fans, but not necessarily facts.

    Okay if we’re going to be adding up “stupid” / “boneheaded” plays with this team and any other teams, well better get out your calculators folks. Werth isn’t the only one who has made those.

    I also don’t think it serves anyone to pretend we know Charlie’s intent on removing Werth from the game. Unless he openly tells us there was another reason beyond the hideous throw, then that’s what it was.

    I’m not defending the throw. I never said I was. Nobody needs to be told it was a dopey move. It doesn’t need to be discussed how bad it was. But I am saying he’s a far better player than that throw, and I’m not sure why I have to say that. I don’t understand the one-sided views of him. Didn’t he just throw Corey Hart out (one throw from RF) at home plate the other night? I don’t get all the vehement negativity that has been directed at him this season but it’s gone too far.

  74. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Original: I was referring to total production and numbers, not his HR rate –which I was unfamiliar with until now.

  75. Bob in Bucks

    September 8, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    IMHO – Phils will make an offer to Werth but he will get better offers because other than Crawford he is the best OF available next year on the market. Lots of buyers and very few products = high price.

    Brown has lots of potential but I am not sure he can equal Werth at this point. It would be better to slide him in gradually next year so he can take over when Ibanez’s contract ends in 2012. The lack of RH power in the lineup will expose the Phils too much. We need a RH bat and I don’t see one.

    Without Werth or equivalent 2011 will not be as good as 2010. Every team will schedule their lefties for our four LH bats (Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Brown). Did I hear a call for Pat Burrell to platoon?

  76. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Brooks, you and I aren’t professional athletes…so we really don’t know what we would do. But I do know that if the difference between $7M and $12M a year for 5 years presented itself to me…I would give SERIOUS consideration to the higher amount. That’s $25M guaranteed money.

  77. biz

    September 8, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    “I do not understand how can anyone seriously buy the “Werth sucks with RISP” argument.”

    Because he’s dead last in the NL in average with RISP. I don’t know of any other stats that would define hitting with RISP. Do you have something relevant to this year that proves otherwise?

  78. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Phan – Do you disagree that he will be asking for that many years? That is my guess and I think its a good one. If he wants to sign for three, hey, great. I think something that might help bridge the gap in this discussion is the fact that I think we all want Jayson back. I know I do. The sh!t you here us talking on Jayson are basically problems with his game that should/would prevent the Phils from paying about 15m a year for him. Everything that we have seen and heard has led us to believe that he is looking to break the bank. God bless him. I honestly hope he gets all the money he wants. And I will tell you something else: Shane and Vic are very similar in that they have great tools, are good players, yet share the trait of doing dumb ass things on the field sometimes. That said, I would offer that the reason Jayson catches so much flack when compared to Shane is that Werth is perceived as an aloof and stoic moneygrubber while Vic’s image is that of a black lab coming to lick your face when you come to the door and just happy to be playing the game. People like Vic. People don’t like Jayson. Fair? Maybe not. Life’s not fair.

    The Dipsy

  79. Phan in the outfield

    September 8, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    And Chuck – I have to laugh, not one bit of what I wrote was meant for you. Actually I’ve agreed with everything you’ve written. And I think he may be the one player we really miss when he’s gone (if he does go) b/c truth is he (and all the tools) isn’t that easily replaced.

    Brooks – I think given the circumstances Werth IS going to take less money either from this or another team. He’s made it clear in the past he wants to stay here (or he DID). But nobody wants to be (or feel) dissed and I think he felt that way very early on. I also doubt anyone would suggest that any other player on this team should take less-to-no raise just for the benefit of playing on the Phillies (b/c they might make the playoffs and/or the WS). Come on.

    I think it was said somewhere around mid-June, just as that hideous slump was starting, that they’d (the FO & his agent) decided they’d wait the season out and see how he played. I remember thinking at the time – wow, pretty magnanimous of him considering this could go totally against him. But I doubt he expected THIS kind of season.

  80. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm


    The Dipsy

  81. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Congrats on the Phillies reaching 1st place. It only took them 3 1/2 months to gain that little lead. John Kruk and ESPN are beside themselves. Fat and ugly Kruk’s opinion’s are so important. Why, the fat fu** has done so much in his life to warrant such opinion’s, huh? ESPN is simply a joke of a network anymore. Biased and ignorant doesn’t even define these losers. They used to be one of the best networks out there, now, they’re definitely one of the absolute worst.

  82. Phan in the outfield

    September 8, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    What we’ve HEARD? Mostly BS perpetrated by writers. It’s “fun.” Most likely done b/c they never particularly liked Werth. It’s they’re version of a ‘get back’. They’ve duped the fans rather than passed on factual information. Nice, right. Oh, and Werth played into their hands by having this iffy season & yelling at the Fat-Green-Interferring-Dad (who deserved it, btw).

    I have no earthly idea what the guy might ask for. But I think I’ll wait and see. And yeah, I’d prefer he stayed with the Phils. I think it would benefit both parties. But if he winds up going someplace else, at this point I wouldn’t blame him.

    We have very differing opinions of Shane Victorino. He’s a friend of that moron reality tv personality Jon Gossling. He’s also a drama queen who spends a lot of time appearing as if he’s working MUCH HARDER than he actually is. HE RUNSSSS backwards. HE RUNSSSS sideways. HE DIVES and misses. All the time his eyes are HUGE as if he’s just bursting out all the time. But no matter what he does he makes sure the fans sympathize with him — even when he’s openly bitching about THEM and how they treat the team. And stupid plays? I’m not even going to go there. Frankly it’s hard for me to believe how much slack that guy is cut by the Phila fans.

  83. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Can any of you fans tell me exactly what John Kruk has ever done to be such a big mouth hot shot on a national nework? I know for a fact he wasn’t all that great of a ball player. Maybe it was Randy Johnson throwing over his head in that All Star game that made him so dearly loved by some. But, does that give him a ticket to be a know-it-all blabbing his fat, ugly face on the tv? He should go back to wearing the mullet, he’s even uglier without it.

  84. Lefty

    September 8, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Do you all really believe Charlie was trying to send a message to to Werth? Because I really don’t. I’m not close enough to get local TV or Radio, so I don’t know if this was discussed, but I just don’t.

    In the eighth, when all Charlie had left basically was Madson, and he was forced to bring him in early, he had to double switch because he needed him to pitch the ninth. Since Jayson was batting in the 7 spot, the pitcher was due to hit 2nd batter in the eight. Jayson was the last batter in the seventh, making him the logical one to replace.

    I read nothing further into it. Like I said I’m out of town, so Did Charlie say anything different?

  85. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    What? Did he say something bad about the Braves, like, “The Braves are in second place”? I think Kruk is a good, actually. It is entertainment after all.

    The Dipsy

  86. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Shane Victorino has some mental problems. He’s in the category of Nyger Morgan. Notice a lot of these weirdos in baseball are little dudes. It stems from their small body size, imo. They feel the need to compensate for their small size with either a big mouth, or a fake tough guy attitude. Knowing damn well they wouldn’t act like this in an alley way one on one.


  87. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    BravoMan, at least you’re not bitter.

    Phan, keep that up, and you’ll have an army of grandmothers and preschoolers picketing your front door. I don’t think Vic gets a lot of slack on this page – a favorite of casual fans only. The one thing Vic has going for him is he is signed to a reasonable contract. I’d move him to pay for Werth or any other need in a heartbeat. He did have two nice days at the plate, but misplayed at least one fly ball last night.

  88. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    The Dipsy, no, no, no. Actually, John Kruk went on about how the Braves were the best team in the division/league thoughout the summer and now is saying because they’re back a 1/2 game that the Phillies won’t give it back. Now he says Philly is the best.

    Yeah, he’s real credible.

  89. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    No. I think Charlie was pulling Werth because he was batting seventh and he wanted to bat the pitcher seventh on the double switch and thats why he did it. It just seemed odd because Werth never bats seventh. If it was Raul, no one would have said boo.

    The Dipsy

  90. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    When the Braves play the Phillies 6 more times, we will then show who’s the better team. Lets see how excited ESPN is then.

  91. bfo_33

    September 8, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    BravoMan, your close, except it’s not just baseball. Little guys are pure evil. While I don’t think much of ESPN, I do like Kruk – at least he has a personality, and put up some pretty nice seasons in SD and Philly (not much power or speed, but he could hit). By far better than most of the other baseball commentators out there.

  92. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    The “category of Nyjer Morgan” ???

    Wow. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard today. Maybe funnier than your comments about John Kruk.

    Shane is an idiot sometimes. No doubt. But the fans love him, especially the ladies and little kids, because he IS that friendly lap DAWG.

  93. Lefty

    September 8, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Thank you Dipsy. Hard to get an answer here when the trolls are around.


    September 8, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    FIRST-PLACE-PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  95. Lefty

    September 8, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    BTW Dipsy,
    I only asked because Pat wrote that Charlie’s move solidified Werth’s spot as goat for the night. I think Werth did that all by himself.


    September 8, 2010 at 1:44 pm


  97. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    You know BravoMan, I’m not on a Braves blog today talking sh*t about the Braves. Why are you on this blog basically acting like an a$$??

    You probably don’t have a good answer anyway.

  98. Lefty

    September 8, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I’d put Bravoturd in a category with Nyjer Morgan. They are both certifiable.


    September 8, 2010 at 1:47 pm


  100. biz

    September 8, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Shane is like Nyjer? I guess. He’s just like him except for the arrogance, bad attitude, borderline criminal behavior. Oh yeah, he’s also got some pop in his bat. Other than that though, they’re exactly alike.



    September 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm


  102. biz

    September 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Dear Braves fans,

    Thanks for keeping 1st place warm for us. We told you it was coming.

    Phillies phans


    September 8, 2010 at 1:53 pm


  104. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    If the Phillies need a Right Hand Power Bat so bad, why not call up Tagg Bozied from Reading, he finished the season the Eastern League winning their AA batting title with a .315 AVG, he has the most homeruns in the Phillies orginization finished with 27, a great number on its own but even more incredible when you realize he was out for 31 games at mid season… He’s not a kid a 31 year old Minor league Vet that has now had 6 seasons in the minors with 20 or more homeruns, he had excellent seasons in AAA, the only reason he was brought in and assigned to AA Reading was as protection for Domonic being RH and batting right behind him. He’s was hot as hell at the end of the season carrying a .374 Avg for the last month plus with over 15 HR’s in this time period.

    Tagg is in incredible hitter, why this guy is wasting around as minor league bat year after year jumping from team to team, I will never know.

    Its really a tragic story for him, a top prospect with the Padres several years ago, blue out below his knee on a walk off grand slam just days before his call up to the majors, battled back playing with several different teams including in Taiwan… only to have his wife foremer volleyball star get hit by a car and become brain damaged… Took a break for BB for that but still comes back and just won’t let his dream die

    He was just named the minor league player of the month. Too bad the Phillies just won’t give him a chance

    His number ended up dwarfing Brown’s and even Rizzotti in terms of power- The 31-year-old enjoyed a solid season in Baseballtown, leading the R-Phils in batting average (.315), home runs (27), RBIs (92), doubles (29), OBP (.402), SLG (.631), and OPS (1.033). He led the Eastern League in average, OBP, SLG, and OPS, and finished near the top in both home runs (tied for 2nd) and RBIs (fourth).

  105. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    The timing of that double switch couldn’t have been more coincidental. Happening right after he effed up that throw. But, yeah, Charlie took him out to double switch.

    And then probably said something to him in the dugout afterwards…

  106. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Its good to see Tagg Bozied’s brother-in-law has made the board today. For what its worth (no pun intended), there is a pretty legit dude on my block who knows Jayson personally and says he’s a pretty decent guy. I have no reason to disbelieve him, except for my eyesight. He told me this the other day at a Labor Day gig in the ‘hood and I replied to him, “then I guess he just ACTS like a doosh, then”.

    The Dipsy

  107. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    They also took him out because he wasn’t even supposed to play in the first place!!!!!

  108. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    It’s nice to see Cholly finally setting line-ups and making in-game decisions and not worrying whether or not he’s gonna upset someone in the process.

    He really managed that game well last night, I thought.

  109. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Dipsy- My point is that a guy, if he had not been out for 31 games with an injury (plus he missed playing time when 1B Rizzotti got called up and even more when 3B Cody Overbeck got called up to Reading) could have had 40+ plus homeruns in AA, shouldn’t be in AA Reading, the Phillies have a need for RH power bat, at least on the bench. They had one to call up that thrives on pressue and clutch situations and yet he wasted away in AA? For what?

    For me you’re in a dogfight for the playoffs, bring up the best players available, its done in the pitching department, but not when it comes to position players and PH. This area seems to be way too political, why was Brian Bocock called up rather than Ransom initially earlier this year? I’m sorry Tagg is a much better option that Mayberry whom we shou;dn’t even bother wasting our time with anymore.


    September 8, 2010 at 2:28 pm


  111. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Is Bozied even on the 40-man?

    The Dipsy

  112. miked63

    September 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Hey bravo Kruk’s only stating the obvious. The Phillies just got healthy a couple weeks ago , and on paper they are the better team with the pedigree from the last three years. Yea i know the Braves had injury’s too but not to the extent of the Phillies injuries. Did you really think the Braves were gonna continue to do it with mirrors ? Andrew from here has been sayin a while that the Braves were gonna come back to earth with the miracle late wins. You can’t keep counting on bad teams bullpens walking 2 or 3 men in the 8th or 9th inning. The cream will usually rise to the top over 162 games. The Braves are not out yet by a long shot but they are not better than the PHILLIES and you know it unless your delusional. Now , sometimes the best team doesn’t always win so you have that going for you. The Braves are gonna have to earn it. The problem is the Phillies have shown 3 years running theyre aug/sept pedigree. They have won more games than any team in baseball since july 30th for a reason Bravo. Show some respect , not many teams in the NL have done what the phillies have done the last couple years. When they get to the 3rd W.S in a row theyre gonna do something that hasn’t happened in the NL in 70 years. I can smell your fear Bravo. Theres more bad news though , the next couple years phils will be the favorite again to go back to W.S. ——- stop being bitter its not flattering , except reality you’ll feel better.

  113. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    we basically lost our whole team. utley, howard, jroll, polly, lidge, madson, vic. utley was out a big part of the season and with howard at time. we had juan valdez, sweeney, gload, castro. amazing. we went into a huge hitting slump and stopped winning games for a long period of time. After saying all that we are in first. LOL. Just shows how poor the Braves are. They could of ran away with this thing. Bobby Cox is now smoking three packs a day.

  114. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    No he ins’t on the 40 man, but there are numerous people on the 40 man that I don’t have a clue why they even are.

    Starting in Reading:
    SP JC Ramirez- He’s only 22 and started the season in A+ Clearwater, why is he on the 40 man?

    SP’s: Drew Naylor and Yohan Flande I get, although I think Flande is waste personally… Naylor shows flashes of briliance on the mound every once ina while

    Reliever Sergio Escolona- WHY??!!? I get he did ok last year but this year he has struggled out of the pen even in AA Reading

    Ok others…

    Dobbs = Loser, I don’t care if Charlie like this guy he had his year and we’re beating a dead horse

    And someone needs to tell me why a 23 year old pitcher in A+ Clearwater has a spot of the 40 man? I’m refering to Jesus Sanchez, who does have a great K ratio but has a slow fastball I’ve hear 84-86 mph, mark my words this guys gets to AA Reading next year and gets ripped to shreds

  115. Bart Shart

    September 8, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I hope Jason Werth has a great September, an outstanding post-season and a successful career in the American League starting in 2011.

  116. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Uh Jeremy, have you looked at Sanchez’s statistics? Maybe “Crash” Davis can hook on with another team next year and play. Do you think we could trade him for a pitcher?

    The Dipsy

  117. Lefty

    September 8, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    LOL on the Crash Davis reference.

  118. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Dipsy LOL at “crash” even I have to admit that was pretty funny, but about Sanchez, yes the numbers are insane but he’s in A+, I’m sorry to go by a few rules 1) TINSTAAPP (there is no such thing as a pitching prospect) and 2) Until you prove you’re self at AA it doesn’t mean anything, as loyal and regular fan at Reading I’ve heard so many times “wait until _______ gets called up from Clearwater” just to see them do jack. Its the biggest jump in the minors and usually if you can prove youre self in AA you can play in the MLB (there are some exceptions of course), but that jump from A+ to AA has killed many careers.

    When it comes to Tagg am I rooting for the underdog? Absolutley, the man is on a new team every year, he flat out hits, there is never any doubt as to whether he can. he’s always brought in as protection for insert prospect here _____. Because of this he never makes it on to a 40 man roster and never gets a Sept call up because of it. When I looked him up and read about the tragic events of his career, yes my heart goes out to him. Plus I’ve talked to the guy out at the bar numerous times and he just eats breathes and sleeps baseball, specifically hitting (he even told me why Domonic would struggle once he got to the majors a major flaw that never got exposed in the minors and its come true for sure). He’s a great guy that never gets a shot even with the great numbers he puts up. As a Philly fan its in my nature to root for a guy like this, with his story and meeting him and getting to talk to him at lenght he’s a great guy a legit player and hitter that just gets screwed over time and time again.

  119. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Besides his name is freaking Tagg, has to be the awesomest name ever and he walks up to “My Chick Bad”- Ludacris

  120. The Dipsy

    September 8, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Being a 31 year old minor leaguer is like being in a bar @ 2:00am. “If it hasn’t happened by now, it’s not gonna happen”, quickly followed by, “you don’t have to go home but you gotta get the hell up on outta here”. Thats why those guys aren’t on the 40 man.

    The Dipsy

  121. Bacardipr05

    September 8, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Yes Werth is 32….How old was Raul when he was signed for 3 years…Werth looks to be a better athlete..Raul just looks like he has a little more muscle mass…However Werth body wasnt subjected to much playing time he got a late start…that crap was fed to us when we signed Raul…it should work for Werth as well…

  122. Chuck

    September 8, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Chris Coste “scored” when he was 33. So what was that….like 3AM for him??

  123. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    I’d be happy with a guy like Tagg Bozied pinch-hitting instead of Mayberry. Tagg’s numbers are far superior.

    But I think that maybe Mayberry was called-up to serve as a pinch-runner mostly –and Charlie knows him well by now…

  124. Jeremy

    September 8, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Dipsy you are right, but I do think there is a difference between a 31 year old who hits .290 with 20 or less homeruns and a 31 year old that hits .315 who could have potentially hit 40 HR’s. And thus should be handeled differently. He’s a hired bat to protect the younger talent, I get that and he did that job admirably this year for both Domonic and later for Rizzotti (whom we still have no idea what the future holds for).

    But I really think he could be a Dobbs (2008) type player and should have gotten that shot this month. Especially when he was the only legitimate RH bat for power and avg in the orginization, which is exactly what the Phillies needed.

  125. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Werth cant carry Crawfords jock. Crawford on the Phillies may be thier best player. Crawford is top 5 in baseball easily.

    Werth will get 3-4 years 45+ million or 60 for 4
    More than hes worth. So you wish him well and hope he gets hot here the last 2 moths of the season. And we wont regret his leaving.

    the Lidge thing is VERY scary. If thats worse than we know and he goes on DL etc etc. You can throw away all the predictions. the division and even the playoffs would not be a lock and winning a playoff series would be tough too. I love madson in the 8th. but we see over and over again. when Brads out for an extended time and hes the closer he cant get the job done.

  126. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    If Lidge goes on the DL even better. I understand he has pitched well of late. He also is going up against some bad teams. Look at his meltdown with the balk. He is always scary. I understand Madson has blown lots of saves as a closer. I think Madson is ready now. He looked great last night. The wild pitch was bad but Ruiz always blocks it. His fastball against Ugly was with mustard. He is throwing. I hiope Lidge never returns.

  127. Manny

    September 8, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Jeff… You’re really bit*ching about Lidge… who’s been maybe THE best closer in baseball since August…

    Why am I not surprised?

    I hope he gets better quickly. WE NEED HIM, especially since Madson’s arm is about to fall off from overuse.

  128. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Jeff thats a way out there statement.
    Lidge may be the most crucial philly from this day forward and if he never came back kiss a chance at winning another WS good bye.
    Because if you move madson to the 9th who pitches the 8th? Conteras/romero. If conteras/romero are in the 8th who is in the 7th.
    Slippery slope.

  129. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Of course Lidge says he’s OK and will play on Friday if needed (right…) but next thing you know we could be looking at the knife –

    If the Phils lose Lidge and make it to the Post Season – I can’t finish the thought..

  130. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Yes manny
    No lidge or Madson tonight.
    Need a big win or a cole CG which means watch the pitch count.
    Was just looking at the cardinals braves series pitching match ups.
    Over for the braves. Lets hope the Giants get the WC and not the rockies.

  131. jeff

    September 8, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    best closer in baseball. are you mad. first off its madson in the 8th who usually gets through the heart of the order. then lidge blows up with a balk. a balk for crying out loud. I do not trust this guy in any game plus any big game. he is bad. see what the yankees do to him in the 9th. he emplodes when a guy gets on.

  132. Andrew from waldorf

    September 8, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Too funny Jeff
    See you in the game thread.
    You are like a tradition or aquired taste.
    By the way the “balk” game. He buckeld down got out of it. then the team won in 14 innnings. The phillies have rolled since and the Padres fell to pieces.


    September 8, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    So glad jeff is back!!!


    September 8, 2010 at 5:06 pm


  135. ActuallyChilled

    September 8, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    BravoMan – this guy is hilarious. He comes on here to drop shrewd superiority comments all the time, and then blows up about a 1/2 game lead. Dude is a drama queen. If I may say so.

  136. Brooks

    September 8, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Its scary to look at Coles record vs the Fish!
    He has been so tuned in though it should be fun

  137. BravoMan

    September 8, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    Whatever guys. We play each other 6 more times, so there’s plenty of time left. The Braves aren’t playing well. Duh, I know this. They shouldn’t have gotten Lee because he sucks out loud, but at the time at least, it sounded like a good idea, I guess.

    I said this a few days back and I feel strongly about it still…. that pen will be the downfall of the Phillies. Say what you want back to me, but it’s pretty clear to me that it will really hurt them here soon. I know the Braves have some problems with their offense, but once a few guys get going again with the bats, the pitching will take care of the rest.

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