Free Agent Option: Xavier Nady – Phillies Nation
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Free Agent Option: Xavier Nady

Now that Jayson Werth has moved on to the Washington Nationals, it’s time for the Phillies to get serious about landing a replacement for the vacancy in right field.

Just two years removed from 25 home runs and 97 RBI, outfielder Xavier Nady is looking for a home. He put those numbers together with the Pirates and Yankees in 2008, then lost nearly the entire 2009 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery. Nady’s 2010 season was a disappointment, although it was not unexpected, as he hit just .256 with six home runs in 347 plate appearances with the Chicago Cubs.

At 32-years old, Nady could be a cheap reclamation project even though Phillies supporters don’t want to take a step backward with the offense. Going from Werth to a Nady/Brown platoon would certainly equal such a move in the wrong direction, but for the price Nady would come at, it wouldn’t be the world’s worst move. Nady has some pop and after a full season to heal from the elbow reconstruction, perhaps he’ll be able to find that once again.

Playing for an awful Cubs team certainly didn’t help his value, either. Hitting within an offense that ranked 10th in runs and 10th in OPS could have been part of the reason Nady’s numbers were sapped. He also may not have been completely healthy. Whatever the case, he won’t be asking for very much on the open market and could be a viable option to platoon.

How is he against lefties you ask? Nady hits .297 for his career against southpaws with a decent .818 OPS. Not Werth-like, but not bad either.

Chances: Two out of 10 Ruben Head’s for Xavier Nady as a Phillie. I wouldn’t mind the cheap signing, but he’s a major fallback option and shouldn’t be looked at as anything more than a platoon player with the hope that he could surprise you and find the talent he flashed a few seasons ago.

121 Comments

121 Comments

  1. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Minor league deal…

  2. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    No.

    I’d rather have Matt Diaz.

  3. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I loved the Nady idea a couple of months back as a guy the Phillies could use in right this year before moving him to left as Brown takes becomes an everyday player BUT… Nady pure and simple doesn’t have the body and he all but said he can’t play everyday during this year and it’s not doesn’t look promising for him getting back to the point he can be an everyday contributor on a winner. Sad really.

    If the rumors are to be believed the Phils aren’t going to bring in anything more than a very short-term solution at most.

  4. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Shane will be worn out by Memorial Day if he has to cover the ground between Ibanez and Nady. Yikes.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  5. Jeff Y.

    December 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Need a right handed bat in the line-up.

  6. BirmCori

    December 6, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Ted – Shane is going to be exhausted having to cover Left AND Right this year!

  7. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Well, that idea that Dipsy floated a while ago is an interesting one…

    Put Chase Utley in left field which could extend his career and strengthen his offensive skills. It would require moving Raul, but if that hypothetically happened then you could move Polanco to 3rd and go after Beltre, thus providing that RH power bat.

    A lot of ifs, however, with this scenario…

  8. Pat Gallen

    December 6, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Chase Utley CANNOT play the outfield. He does not have the arm for it and is too good of a defensive second baseman.

  9. Lefty

    December 6, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Chuck I assume you mean move Polly to second right. How much would Beltre cost? He’s rumored to have turned down 5/64 from the A’s. Could we get hime for 3/45?

  10. George

    December 6, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Yes, a LOT of ifs…

    For one thing, no one knows if Utley would be any good in left. For another, Raul may not be moveable. For a third, it might cost too much to keep Beltre from signing elsewhere.

  11. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    @Pat. I guarantee you that with two weeks of practice Chase Utley would be a better LF that Raul Ibanez. As for no arm, didn’t Chase start out playing third? I am sure there are a lesser arms playing LF throughout the major leagues. Additionally, Polanco at 2nd becomes a defensive upgrade from Chase. Not everbody has that luxury. Beltre would be totally sick in CBP, provided he can stay healthy. I think it’s should be explored if Beltre’s numbers are right.

    The Dipsy

  12. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Unfortunately, I got to the party late and just got to post Werth-comments a day late .. .but im still over there if people are still talking about that

    ..
    I agree that Utley should stay put at 2b for now… and that would be an absolute worst-case-scenario/ last resort kind of move to pull utley from 2b and move him to the OF … I always thought they would move him to 1b, but with the Howard extension last year, that won’t happen either.

    The utley to the OF thing is a mimimum of 3-4 years away from having any chance

  13. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    OR put Beltre in LF. There is a reason that it is considered the least demanding defensive position on the field.

    The Dipsy

  14. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Beltre is looking for 5/90. It’s safe to say that he won’t be playing in Philly next season…

    I’m Ted Bell.

  15. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    The A’s just pulled an offer of 5/64 for Beltre, Ted.

    The Dipsy

  16. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Beltre only plays big in Contract years… and it would be much easier to replace a LF than to move Utley, move Polanco, AND get a 3b

    it hurts the entire team by making everyone change their routine.

    ….
    The only thing hurting the Phillies at this moment is the question of WHO BATS 5th?

    I would have to assume that Victorino bats leadoff and Rollins-Ibanez bat 5th-or-6th depending on pitching matchups…

    Francisco and Ruiz are both nice 7-hitters, 8-hitters, but to break up too many Lefties in a row,

    My batting order right now would be: (assuming D.Brown isn’t ready for The Show full time yet)

    Vic
    Polly
    Utley
    Howard
    Rollins
    Francisco
    Ibanez
    Ruiz
    Kendrick

  17. Lefty

    December 6, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Beltre is a good option but before trying to figure out where he could play, I ask again, how much does he want? At his age to turn down 5/64-

    I don’t know maybe the Lerner family and the Rox have changed everything now.

    Don M- I like Ordonez too.

  18. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Beltre is among the best defensive 3b in baseball… LF is for guys like Burrell, Ibanez, Gary Sheffield, etc

    Also, the point of not keeping Werth is because they are trying to get away from a team full of $15 M per season players… they need some of these younger guys to keep developing

    Polanco, Utley, Howard is still as good a 2-3-4 in the lineup as there is in Baseball

  19. Pat Gallen

    December 6, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Dipsy, you put guys in the outfield when they can no longer play their position in the infield at a high level. Chase Utley is not that guy. Maybe down the road, yes, it’ll happen. But for now you don’t take a high-level 2B and put him in RF because of short term needs.

    I like the Beltre Idea and moving Polanco (somewhere)…I’ll be working on a post on that for tomorrow, just haven’t had the time.

  20. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    The A’s were about $26 million off the mark according to my calculations. Beltre wants a “Torii Hunter deal”, which is 5/$90 million. He’s represented by Boras, and after seeing what happened yesterday, I think there’s a good chance he’ll get something close to that.

    I’m Ted Bell

  21. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Don’t be surprised if they pull something out of their rear ends. RAJ’s trademark is to do something that borders outrageous.

    Short of that, just bring in one of these Franceour, Diaz, Nady guys – theyre all the same category of player basically.

  22. Lefty

    December 6, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Thanks Ted, too much to be moving all the pieces around I think.

  23. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    In such a terrible market for SS, I’d trade Rollins (even if it means eating some money), move Polly over to short and then use that money to sign Beltre (who would rake in CBP and make up for Polly’s lack of range at SS).

    Anything but Franceour. Dear god please not Jeff Francoeur.

  24. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Beltre is not going to be a Phillie, he turned us down and he will sign at his natural gold glove position of 3rd base somewhere.

    Utley’s not an outfielder, were not talking about Chuck Knobly here being moved to left cause he can’t make the throw to 1st… Utley is the Phillies 2nd basemen until he probably isn’t a Phillie.

    Have to say I’d be scared of a line-up that has Vic up top and Rollins and Francisco behind Howard which offers no protection with probably the easiest outs in the line-up.

    The Phillies need a right handed corner outfielder that can hit for power and drive in runs to give Howard some protection and add a consistent RBI guy behind the heart of the line-up instead of free swingers.

    I would much rather try something like with Utley the only guy I think can protect Howard at this point.

    Rollins
    Francisco
    Howard
    Utley
    Polanco
    Ibanez
    Victorino
    Ruiz

  25. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    The thing is though…if yiou are really thinking about moving Utley from 2B, then you might as well just trade him because it would be easier. That is the agenda that I am promoting here. Chase Utley is the personification of how this team is getting old.

  26. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Ted – Beltre’s looking for 5/$70, not $90. He’s not that crazy.

    NJ – Protection doesn’t exist, stop making lineups based on that fallacy.

  27. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Short of a trademark RAJ surprise blockbuster, just go for Franceour or Diaz.

    You might as well trade Utley if you are gonna move him off 2B, it’d be easier. I would gladly promote that agenda, because he is the personification of the “aging star” whos body is breaking down before he thought it would. I may actually be able to get him out soon.

  28. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    OR you can put guys in the OF when you have a glut of players that can play the IF at a high level. Polanco and Beltre would be those. Utley can always come back to 2B. It not a demotion or a recognition that he can’t play 2B anymore, its just an attempt to get the most bats in the lineup.

    The Dipsy

  29. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    If they let Werth go without a real offer then they won’t sign Beltre. Who is only good in contract years. Two years ago his contract was an albatross and Seattle couldn’t wait to get rid of him

  30. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Dipsy, this isn’t Baseball Mogul, where you can haphazardly throw excess talent in the OF and expect good things to happen. Putting an IF with no experience in the outfield would be terrible for our pitching staff, as more fly balls drop for hits and runners advance more bases due to a lack of arms. Honestly, your Manny idea was better, which is saying a lot for both this idea and your overall sanity.

  31. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    I have to say as ugly as it sounds a guy who can drive in runs like Jeff Francour or Josh Willingham is a necessary evil. As much as we want to put the best producer in the vacant hole the priority is finding guys to protect the guys we need to produce.

    RAJ needs to do a little ‘Cardinal-ing’ and find some short-term solutions that allow the key components to not be handcuffed before the longer-term moves can be made.

  32. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Polanco and Utley are widely regarded as the two best hitters on the team …. meaning that you need to get them to plate as many times as possible

    Batting them 4th, 5th solves the issue of having threats behind Howard… but with a game on the line and the top of the order coming up

    I would MUCH rather Polanco batting than Francisco…. MUCH rather Utley than Howard, etc


    I think people are forgetting how good Jimmy Rollins is when healthy… I get this feeling that people are ready to write him off .. when really, he’s like 32-years-old. plays an AMAZAING defensive SS, and …when healthy… has one of the most dangerous bats on the team too

    One of the ways to keep him healthier, in my mind, is to take a few of the at-bats, and trips around the bases away from him… try to keep his legs a little more fresh, which would hopefully allow him to be more a threat when he does get on …

    no right or wrong answer there, its just a Chicken-or the Egg scenario

  33. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    NJ – much like protection, RBIs are overvalued and don’t talk at all about the true worth of a player. Franceour can’t get on base to save his life and Willingham might be too expensive, talent wise, to acquire through trade.

  34. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    However…Franceour is still only 26, which means he could possible be “fixed” …not too bad…

  35. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    This is a team that scored three runs or less in half of their games last season and has just lost one of their better offensive players. These names that are bouncing around (Nady, Diaz, Franceour, Hairston, etc.) are not impact players. It’s time for RAJ to do something creative, because this lineup will struggle even more in 2011 as it stands now.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  36. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    If there is one guy that handle Manny Ramirez.. its Charlie Manuel.. that said, I can’t possibly imagine that Ruben would ever bring him in

    but he can still mash.. would love this ballpark… but would his horrible defense cancel out any benfit his bat would bring

  37. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    @Publius – A donkey can play LF. I know. I’m a donkey and I played it. If Chase gets in the position now and plays it in spring training he will be a better LFer than Ibanez. Do you disagree? Yes, and when you have a physically gifted guy, you can put him in the OF because he has enough athletic ability to do it. Its not like you are asking Chase to replace a good fielder. Try this on for size: 3B Beltre 2B Polanco LF Utley or 3B Polanco 2B Utley LF Ibanez…what combination do you like better defensively?

    The Dipsy

  38. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Don M – Manny’s O will always cancel out his D.

    The Dipsy

  39. Josh

    December 6, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    In the case of guys like Diaz and Nady, you have to ask: Are they any better than what we already have? I think its clear that neither of these guys are.

    The Phillies already have a pretty good 4th OF/platoon player in BenFran. While I understand that both corner OF spots may benefit from a platoon situation, I think it makes more sense to add a guy who offers value as more than just a platoon corner OF. I’d like to see someone with a little more defensive versatility (play both INF and OF).

    We have seen just about everyone in this lineup get hurt over the last two years. The Phills don’t need to load the bench with one dimensional players.

  40. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Actually no it won’t….even in Fenway in 2007, with the short LF wall, Manny was only a 1 win player because his defense was so bad. Add 3 years of age and a bigger field, I would be surprised if Manny would come away as more than a 1 win player, which can be found cheaper elsewhere.

  41. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Whats a “1 Win” player?

    The Dipsy

  42. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Manny is a DH, it is not a serious plan at all to try and sign him. This has less chance of happening than any other move that you could even possibly come up with.

  43. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Lefty, I did indeed mean Polanco to second. And I get it that moving Chase out there is not gonna happen….right now.

    But getting a guy like Beltre into this lineup would be ridiculously good.

  44. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    And by DH I don’t mean Designated Hitter.

  45. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    I agree RBI’s can be overvalued greatly but right now I’m not looking for the Phils to add a great player so much as a guy who’s a right handed bat that can hit the ball into the outfield with authority and get some runs home. That’s not Ben Fran.

    On the outfield defensively you don’t just put guys in the outfield, you still have to put someone in a position that works for his defensive ability and experience. You prioritize catcher, SS, 2nd base and CF and you don’t move a guy out of that position unless he’s a liability.

    There’s also this myth about having a one dimensional player in left and you need a gold glover in right. It doesn’t matter the legs or fielding ability for the guy in RF so much as you need a guy with a strong enough arm to make the throw to 3rd. For us right now it’s that guy with ability to drive in 80-90 runs batting behind Howard that isn’t a glorified top of the order hitter like Rollins, Victorino or Ben Fran

  46. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Don, we talked about that very thing a few weeks ago…..Charlie being the ONE guy that could help/deal with Manny.

    BUT….

    I really don’t want all his baggage on this team.

  47. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    If I’m looking at the bigger picture I’m hoping to hell Minnesota are cash strapped and Jason Kubel or Michael Cuddyer aren’t re-signed next year so you start this year with say

    Ibanez/Vic/Willingham

    and start next year with

    Kubel or Cuddyer/Vic/Brown

  48. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    You know looking at Jeff Francours numbers he’s not going to walk a lot but he’s got a ballistic missile in RF and he has ALWAYS driven in runs when he’s had the chance.

  49. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    NJ, i got confused by that …. so who is your answer in RF?

    The thinking is that you can get away with a short-term solution until D.Brown is ready to play full-time, which in my opinion will be 2012

    At that point, Ibanez is gone, so the extra Left-Handed bat of Brown isn’t as much of an issue, so long as the other OF hits Righty


    My ideal player is Magglio Ordonez, a career .312 hitter, has gone 20,30+ HRs multiple times in his career…. wouldn’t be looking for anything too long since he’s already 36 or 37 … he’s the type of “puzzle piece” player the Phillies should target

    They don’t need to overspend for another “superstar” like Beltre, who, once he signs his big contract, will probably stop trying…

  50. Bart Shart

    December 6, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    I say “NAY” to Nady. I like Willingham and Diaz better. And also, I hate to say it, Manny Ramirez might NOT be a bad one-year gamble.

  51. George

    December 6, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Geoff, according to sources, the Phils did make a serious offer to Werth. It’s just that the Nats made a totally insane offer. I still don’t think the Phils would offer Beltre what he’s asking for because they already have a good third baseman, and Utley is perfectly capable of playing second. And Dipsy, maybe Utley did start at third, but was probably moved over for a good reason–like maybe his arm wasn’t strong enough. The Phils certainly didn’t have any third basemen at the time, and were signing major league busts like David Bell, and would have probably welcomed Utley if he could have cut it at third.

    No GM in his right mind would switch everyone’s roles unless he absolutely had to. The Phils don’t have to; they just need a right-handed bat.

  52. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    It looks like the 5/90 was a little high (I had heard Heyman’s report a few weeks ago.

    From MLTR (updated today):

    Adrian Beltre’s agent Scott Boras is seeking five years and north of $70MM, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports chimes in with five years, $85MM. In mid-November, SI’s Jon Heyman had suggested a five-year, $90MM target.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  53. Bart Shart

    December 6, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Magglio Ordonez might work for us, if the price is right. He can hit.

  54. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Yes to Ordonez. Worth considering.

  55. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    My most reasonable solution barring a shockbuster move is Franceour/Brown platoon. Franceour has a big arm, big power, just needs to get a manager who can correct his approach at the plate.

  56. George

    December 6, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    From what I’ve read, Amaro IS trying to get rid of Ibanez. I wish him luck. He may have to pay all of the salary plus some bribe money to convince Raul to waive his no-trade, and he’ll maybe get back someone who’ll be a potential AAA journeyman.

    But at least he’s trying.

  57. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Don M- I’m not fussed as long as it’s a guy suited to the role and not another Wes Helms. I don’t think Ben Fran is anywhere near good enough and consistent enough a hitter to be in the heart of the line-up so if we’re talking a one year solution that’s cheap I’m trading for Josh Willingham.

    If it’s a free agent I’m wondering why Magglio Ordonez isn’t signed and it’s probably contractual so between Scott Hairston, Austin Kearns, Milleadge, Nady, Francour and Jermaine Dye I’m going for Francour.

    This teams got to start learning to hit with less and start playing a style that moves runners on outs. I don’t think paying big and making a headline trade to replace Werth’s production is the answer.

  58. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    I’ll take Ordonez. I mean, if you stop and think about this guy is the realistic answer. A pedigreed hitter, coming off an injury, right handed, might be able to signed to a one year deal. You know he can still hit. Its so logical. But I fear he’s going back to Detroit. I hope not. Guerrero is another guy in the same category, albeit a little higher priced. Can play an outfield position decently and could be gotten for probably a two, maybe one, year deal.

    The Dipsy

  59. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Ibanez isn’t going anywhere now otherwise it’s going to be one UGLY empty outfield this year.

    I don’t care about correcting Francour’s approach or giving Willingham a place he can show he can do it on a winner, or Milleadge who could stay here for years like Werth… I just care about a guy who right now can hit the ball with power into the outfield with runners in scoring position and occasionally go deep. We need our Aubrey Huff (and I mean when the Giants got him not re-signed him)

  60. George

    December 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Ordonez is worth considering, but given his age could be a right-handed Ibanez. If the solution is short term, it should at least be cheap; if it’s not, the Phils need someone younger.

  61. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Please realize that Francoeur wasn’t good enough to play for the Mets. Stop trying to see the “bright side.” He is an awful player that can’t get on base at anything CLOSE to an acceptable rate (barely managed a .300 OBP in 2010). Brown patrolling RF and facing lefties would be preferable (and cheaper!) than Francoeur.

  62. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Jeff Franceour has hit more than 20 HRs ONCE in his career … and has a career SLG% of .425 …

    I wouldn’t list BIG POWER as a reason to get him.. but since he’s young and has plenty of natural talent.. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing what he can do with Charlie Manuel behind him

  63. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Dipsy your right on Ordonez but Vlad can’t play the field, he’s played just 20 games not as a DH in the last two years.

  64. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Vladdy CAN’T play OF anymore … I would LOVE HIS BAT, as he’s like Hall of Fame talent on offense, but he can’t play the OF, so that takes every NL team out of play for him

    Magglio can at least play the OF..

    If they want to save money and use the platoon this year, I can’t blame them though because I think D.Brown needs to play a lot, at least all the time against RHP and he needs to get some LHP at bats too

  65. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Ok, well you want someone with that big power who hits right handed? and is consistent and can play in the field…

    then you need to free up some money…and assuming raul cannot be moved, who do you trade? That hits left or switch…

  66. George

    December 6, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Guerrero is seeking two years, and may get it from the Rangers. He’s also no longer a real outfielder.

    Really, there just isn’t much out there. We’ll have to hope Brown/Francisco can hold down the fort, and that the key guys rebound from last year.

    At least there are now three really good pitchers in the rotation, something that the Phils didn’t have in ’07, ’08, or ’09, so they may not need as many runs.

  67. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Vlad is a butcher in the field…plain and simple. If we think Raul sucks (which I haven’t said…but someone else….ahem… has) out there and Burrell a few years ago….what would we think watching Guerrero??

  68. Lefty

    December 6, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Ordonez would be a great option, better than Beltre and moving everyone around. I’d point out that despite his age, we really need to take advantage of our window of opportunity that would appear to be closing in the next few seasons. We can’t afford to wait around too long.

  69. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Besides the hype on his arm… how good is franceour in RF?

    He’s listed again as their prime target, so I wouldn’t be surprised, or disappointed if they get him..

    They know a whole lot more than we do about what players will fit into their lineup, and fill their needs… so whatever addition they make, I trust it

  70. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    I’ve actually been impressed with Raul in LF over the past two years…. he got KILLED by fans on here before he ever played a game for us… and I think he’s definitely been better than advertised in LF

    he’s never going to win the Gold Glove, but he hasn’t been the butcher everyone was convinced he would be.

    Thats my whole point on Magglio … we have ONE YEAR with these Top 3 Pitchers … with Jimmy Rollins definitely here.. etc.. I want to go for it again, and you can get Magglio for 1-2 years, instead of Werth,etc for 5-6-7

  71. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    I’ve seen Ibanez get to some balls and make some plays that Pat Burrell NEVER would have made.

  72. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I think the appeal of Francour is he could be signed to a one year deal and could ft behind Howard as a guy who can hit the ball over the infield and drive in 80-90 runs in an almost everyday role in this line-up although his other numbers may not be impressive.

    He may not have a massive HR total but he has the power to drive in runs by getting the ball deep enough to move and score runners.

    I’m fed up of seeing the Phils get runners into scoring position early in innings and just make outs. Francour will go up there and at least put the ball in the outfield which is the appeal.

  73. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    You know if Ordonez could be had I think I’ll just go ahead and say I think we all agree we’ll take him in the blink of an eye on a one or moderate two year deal.

  74. Publius

    December 6, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    NJ Francoeur makes more outs than any other Phillie currently in the lineup, hence his stupid low OBP. He had a good rookie season and that’s it. His only consistent ability is to make outs.

  75. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    I totally get that, I don’t care how many outs he makes if is role is to drive in runs or advance runners in scoring position

    Outs can be productive, that’s the reason the Giants beat us because they could get guys from 1st to 2nd on groundouts or 2nd to 3rd on flyouts. The Phillies did not move their runners and didn’t run and ended up looking like a lame duck.

  76. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    I don’t think there is any way that TAJ won’t land a big RH bat. He almost has to. He has the “Big Three” for just one more year and you kinda have to go for it, not that they haven’t the last few years. I think that Amaro is going to start looking at Upton, and for all the obvious reasons. Curiously, I don’t think it would take a ton more that DBrown to get him. If ther DBacks are gonna have a firesale, lets strap on our gasmasks.

    The Dipsy

  77. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    You’re joking, right?? Not a ton more than Brown?? It would take Brown and a few others to get Upton here. I don’t think Arizona is gonna move him in some sort of firesale.

  78. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Chuck – Excuse me…not a firesale. I misspoike. But why would they wanna trade that guy? Its makes no sense. How about: Brown, Mathieson, Worley?

    The Dipsy

  79. Lefty

    December 6, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Looks like a concensus on Ordonez. Dipsy I think you were touting him too, before you went on that insane Manny rant.

    Get It Done Ruben! (Like he really reads or cares about my posts)

  80. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    I’d do that deal in a minute. But don’t you think it would take more than that? How excited is Arizona gonna be to get Mathieson and Worley?

  81. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    RAJ can keep the big 3 together for the year after this one by exercising Oswalt’s option.

  82. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Upton would cost too much in salary.. I think people are forgetting that the Phillies want as much YOUNG, CONTROLABLE TALENT as possible …

    they can’t afford to have everyone on their team making $10-$20 M per year… not if any of us want to be able to afford tickets, unlike Yankme fans

  83. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    If Arizona isn’t excited about Justin Upton who is on an insanely friendly deal then why should we be…?

  84. Dave

    December 6, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Dipsy…if you were the AZ GM, would YOU trade away Upton for Brown, Mathieson and Worley? I think you’d have to add another Brown type player to the mix.

  85. The Dipsy

    December 6, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    @Dave. I don’t know. I have no idea what the AZ GM is thinking, Did you see what Boston gave up for Gonzalez? @DonM – Upton’s contract is cheap.

    The Dipsy

  86. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Dave, exactly my point. Arizona would have to be blown away.

  87. jt

    December 6, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    no ordonez we already got an old player were stuck with in raul no more then a 1 year deal if we were to pick him up.

  88. JAY-AKA-PHILLYBOY

    December 6, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    ANYBODY BUT FRENCHY…………………

  89. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Arizona is not marketing Upton to dump salary, they’re marketing him because he’ll get the biggest return among players they can move. He’s a rising star with a very team friendly contract that runs through 2015 – they could fill a lot of holes by trading him. If they want two young major league ready players along with two blue chip prospects (as was originally reported) the Phillies have no shot at him. None.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  90. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    This is “cheap”….???

    $6.75 million in 2012, $9.75 million in 2013, $14.25 million in 2014 and $14.5 million in 2015.

  91. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    If you want the Phillies to be able to keep Chase Utley and Cole Hamels past their current deals .. you can’t go blowing money on random multi-millon dollar players. .

    Upton, a career .272 hitter.. with career highs of 26 HRs, 86 RBI.. is good, not great

    and not worth trading the farm for. This wouldn’t ever happen anyway, so THIS GUY is done with the pros/cons of this pipe dream deal

  92. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Don M. –

    All you have to do is look at the Werth contract to see what a bargain Upton’s contract is. I guarantee you that Upton’s 2011-2015 numbers will eclipse anything that Werth does.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  93. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Don M.

    Upton is under contract for 5 years $50 million. That’s cheap. Cost certainty will cost in talent.

    2011 $4.25
    2012 $6.75
    2013 $9.75
    2014 $14.25
    2015 $14.50

    That’s why I’d try like heck to land him.

  94. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    That’s why it comes back to Ruben maybe NOT overwhelming everybody with some big name…just for the sake of it.

    Getting guys like Diaz, Ordonez, Francoeur for a year or two might just be what we need RIGHT NOW.

    Like I said last week…sometimes doing nothing, or doing what seems to be very little, can actually pay the biggest dividends. It’s not always the sexy names that help win champoinships.

  95. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Good, but not great?? Upton is 22 freakin’ years old. He’s a week younger than our top prospect, and he already has over 1700 PAs. He’s developing at the major league level. Most players are still in the minors at his age. Our two biggest stars didn’t establish themselves in the majors until they were 25…Upton is years ahead of their development.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  96. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    Id trade some package spearheaded by Brown for Upton no worries. Then I’d turn around and trade one of Ibanez (doubtful), Victorino, Rollins, Blanton, or Utley.

  97. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Any of them will do. Rollins I’d keep thoough because I think he has one more supberb year left in him if healthy. The others, I’m not so sure.

  98. bebin

    December 6, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Chase Will not be moved to LF that would just be idiotic…..If they wanted to put polanco at 2nd and find a replacement at 3rd why wouldn’t they have traded for Reynolds…he’s def really good defensively…and although he is a hack at the plate he does do well when he is healthy.

  99. Dave

    December 6, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Here’s what I read on Justin Upton this morning. AZ’s GM basically says he wants 2 Justin Upton’s in return PLUS other stuff.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5888891

  100. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Yeah that wont happen…which is why I’d be ok with a Franceour signing.

  101. Manny

    December 6, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Find a 1-year fix for RF (whether that’s Willingham, Nady, Diaz, or just platooning Francisco and Dom –which is really starting to grow on me). As Don mentioned earlier in this thread, I rather see the Phillies extend guys like Hamels and Utley… Once Raul leaves after 2011, we can reevaluate our OF situation. No need to get desperate and kill the team’s financial flexibility with a multi-year deal at this point, in my opinion.

  102. Dan

    December 6, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    I don’t mind this move. He used to be a really good hitter. Maybe he recovers from the injury and returns to top form for us. There is risk involved in every player.

  103. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Geoff,

    If you’d trade Utley why not trade him to an AL team to get prospects to flip to AZ for Upton. MAy have to sweeten the deal a little. Then Sign Beltre to play 3rd, move Polanco to Second.

  104. jeff

    December 6, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    u will not win with raul, vic, and fran as your outfielders. not even close. losing werth hurts. bottom line. that power hitting right handed bat. kills you. also that howard contract cripples this team for years.

  105. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    I don’t know why no-one else here is even wondering why a team that needs him and can afford him AND would be a PR nightmare if they traded is available… Players like that don’t just suddenly become available in their early twenties unless there’s something wrong with their body or head…

    Trade option Ryan Doumit? Available and has played RF (remember Werth came up as a catcher)

  106. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    How is the Howard deal crippling??? He’s signed for something 3 years past his arbitration ones not something like 7 years after he hits free agency…

  107. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    jeff thinks that what they pay the bat boy cripples this team.

  108. brooks

    December 6, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    @ Ted, a couple of post ago you said: “It’s time for RAJ to do something creative, because this lineup will struggle even more in 2011 as it stands now.”

    I have trouble buying that but it happens to be a reality. This past year was proof of how anything can happen. The Phils run scoring draught was painful and disheartening. And yet, for the most part proven stars like Howard, Vic, Werth, Raul were all in the lineup for most of the season and just couldn’t get it done. It was a gargantuan effort by our starting pitching that took us as far as we got.

    We need our offense back, badly. With the offense intact, this team will be virtually unstoppable. Whether its Willingham, Diaz or nobody at all, if the so called ‘core’ of this team starts hitting, this club will be dominant.

  109. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Just Because the Nationals are morons, outbid themselves, and are overpaying Jayson Werth … does not mean that a .272 hitter in Justin Upton is a bargain or a good deal making over $10 M per season..

    Upton is “cheap” this year… next year is debatable at almost $7 M, because nobody has any idea how good of a player he will or won’t become . . . his brother was also supposed to be the next great player, and he’s overrated with a terrible attitude

    ….
    People aren’t seriously posting things like Trade Utley for Prospects for Upton .. and THEN sign Beltre . . . this isn’t fantasy baseball, or MLB THE SHOW video games.. what is the point in posting over the top scenarios that have no chance of happening. .

  110. Geoff

    December 6, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    I dunno. Upton is very good. However, I think we will sign Franceour, then try and trade Ibanez and then see if a big impact move can be made.

  111. NJ

    December 6, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Don M- Didn’t quite realise it averaged that much money that quickly in Upton’s contract.

    There’s been rumblings about his attitude and now the D-Backs are fielding offers for their young star… Somethings rotten in Denmark for sure.

  112. Don M

    December 6, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    Don’t get me wrong…. Upton’s a hell of a player/talent… I’d imagine he can be an All Star for years to come .. but he makes a lot at the end of that contract , and you would have to give up so much to get him that it just makes it insane to think anything could happen


    How about Charlie Manuel quoted as saying he can fix Jeff Franceour’s swing..

  113. Bruce

    December 6, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Boy! Talking about a baseball fantasy thread here (chuckles). Just about every poster here is a wannabe GM trading players left and right. In the real world, GM Amaro is looking for bullpen help (replacements for Romero and Durbin) and perhaps add depth to the bench, especially a RH bat. There is a “No Vacancy” sign posted in RF (smile) because both Amaro and Manuel have expressed confidence in Francisco (RH) and Brown (LH) in playing RF.

  114. Chuck

    December 6, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    If Charlie said that….I believe him.

  115. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    If the Phils go into the season with an OF of Ibanez, Vic, Ben Fran, Brown and Gload it will be a huge downgrade from last years team. Not sure that’s how I’d go into the season.

  116. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    RAJ is up to something even if it’s not a blockbuster. No way he goes into the season with those 5 as the OFs especially since Brown probably starts the season in AAA.

  117. Ted Bell

    December 6, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Once again, Justin Upton at ages 23-27 will be far more productive than Jayson Werth at ages 32-36. Check back with me after 2015 and we’ll review the stats. Those five years that he’s signed for come at a great bargain.

    Also, the only reason that Towers even entertains moving Upton is because he can fill several holes that way. There’s no other commodity on his team that could bring back as much talent.

    Not every player that is talked about in a trade scenario is some sort of “problem”. There are actual baseball reasons why teams match up in trades. Go figure.

    I’m Ted Bell.

  118. JAY-AKA-PHILLYBOY

    December 6, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    •Interestingly, Amaro spoke of a potential platoon in right field involving Ben Francisco and Ross Gload – not mentioning Domonic Brown, who hit just .069 in nine Dominican Winter Ball games before returning home last week. Asked if he would prefer Brown to play every day than split time in the big leagues, Amaro said, “If we had our druthers we’d rather put Domonic in a position to get the at-bats that he kind of lost last year and prepare himself to improve his outfield play, base running, etc. In a perfect world, we don’t need Domonic to make our club, unless he really pushes us, unless he shows us in Spring Training that he’s ready to take that next step.”

  119. jeff

    December 6, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    shut up chuck. overgrown animals do not derserve to make millions. thats what these guys are. werth he is just a caveman. like my buddy the met fan said. werth is not even on the level below the top. maybe the next down. a nice 3 year 30 million dollar player. hope he gets hurt again. chuck enjoy your date with the sis

  120. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Juan Rivera talk at $5.25 million. Yuck.

  121. psujoe

    December 6, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Interesting talk. Royals want Kyle Dravek, Travis Snider and possibly more for Greinke. If you’re the Jays do you do it?

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