Phillies Nation TV

Phillies Nation TV: Victorino Contract, Chris Kobela

This week on Phillies Nation TV, Corey and I spend some time on Shane Victorino and the possibility of a new contract at a discounted rate after the season as he becomes a free agent. We also discuss Ryan Howard and his “setback.” How far back will he be pushed?

Ian Riccaboni talks with a die-hard Phillies fan who is battling Leukemia and raising money as he fights on. Also, Natalie Egenolf gives us some great reader comments and questions from facebook and Twitter. Look for the Phillies Nation trivia question of the week, too!

In the final segment, we break into the “Guys We Despise” Top 10. It’s another edition of Phillies Nation TV!

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  1. TheDipsy

    March 9, 2012 at 8:32 am

    THE>>>>>PHILLIES>>>>WILL>>>>NEVER>>>>EVER>>>>EVER>>>>>give him a deal like that. Ever.

    The Dipsy

    • Pat Gallen

      March 9, 2012 at 8:37 am

      Victorino? Oh ok, just like they would never trade for Roy Halladay and would never acquire Cliff Lee, and would never give Jimmy 4 years, and etc.

    • Corey Seidman

      March 9, 2012 at 12:15 pm

      Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up, Dipsy. Your insider information and evidence strengthens your respected prediction.

  2. Chuck A.

    March 9, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Victorino….while a very nice player….is NOT in the same league as Halladay, Lee and Rollins.

    • Mtuske

      March 9, 2012 at 9:53 am

      I agree with Halladay and Lee but he’s way better offensively than Jimmy. Vic stomps him in Avg, Slg and OPS over the last 3 years and it really isn’t close.

  3. Don M

    March 9, 2012 at 10:48 am

    I’m a huge Rollins fan (he and Hamels are my favorite players) but I would say that Victorino is most certainy comparable to Rollins in terms of ther skill set and production

  4. Chuck A.

    March 9, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Maybe Rollins and Vic are similiar in their skillsets…but I don’t think they are viewed the same way by the Phillies. I would think that Jimmy means more to the organization as a whole….the longest tenured, elder statesman or moving to that role, close to the all time team record in a few offensive categories, the overall heart and soul of the team.

    Maybe that’s what Dipsy is referring to when he says that they wouldn’t ever give him that sort of deal???

  5. TheDipsy

    March 9, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Let me elucidate a bit on my post from above. The reasons the Phils would never sign Shane to a contract like that are as follows:

    1) The Phillies need to sign Hamels first. Once that money is gone, that doesn’t leave a lot left over. Some, but not a lot. If the Phils were to sign Vic after signing Hamels, that would leave them very little flexibility to do other things, even with the money coming off the cap in the years ahead.

    2. Shane’s track record is not befitting of a guy who gets a long term contract at that money. He had a real good year last year. Before that, he was a nice player, not a great one. If you’re gonna give a guy 15m a year, he better be great, and Shane hasn’t done it long enough. And the Torii Hunter analogy is a poor one. That was a bad contract and still is.

    3. Hunter Pence is a better player for this team and needs to be signed first. Obviously the Phils feel real good about him because they gave up real value to get him. So, would you like to lock yourself into TWO four year contracts with OFs? I wouldn’t.

    4. Signing him to a four to five year deal makes him too old on the back end. The man relies on speed and thats gonna go as he ages. Why do you think Juan Pierre isn’t a premier player anymore (if he ever was). Pierre is only 34.

    In the end, you just can’t keep all your guys. There just isn’t enough money. The Phils picked Ryan, Jimmy, Cliff, Roy, Papsmear, and hopefully Cole and Pence. They are committed to these guys. You have to put in pieces around them at this point, not tie yourself down with long contracts. Every guy on the field can’t have a five year contract. Anyway, if I’m gonna sign a CFer to big money and big years, I’ll wait for Michael Bourn.

    The Dipsy

    • George

      March 9, 2012 at 3:24 pm

      How long will you wait for Bourn? He’ll be thirty (at least) by the time he’s a free agent. If the Braves extend him, he’ll be even older when he becomes available.

      If you don’t want Vic at age 36, I don’t see why you’d want a different speed guy at about the same age.

    • Corey Seidman

      March 9, 2012 at 5:20 pm

      1) If the Phillies sign Hamels for $20MM/year and Victorino for $15MM/yr, give Hunter Pence $15-16MM in his last arb year and pick up Carlos Ruiz’s $5mm option for 2013, they’d have $30 million under the luxury tax for 10 players. Roughly 10 of the 15-20 players you’d sign to fill out the roster are cheap, team-controlled guys. Mayberry, Brown, Stutes, De Fratus, Aumont, Schwimer, Herndon, Worley, etc.

      Absolutely doable. And it’s not like $178MM is the salary cap… it’s the luxury tax threshold that the Phillies could exceed, and if they do next year, it’s not as big a deal as it would be in years past, because the following year it increased to $189 million and there isn’t as great a chance of them pushing past for a second straight a year and picking up a harsher penalty.

      2) The Torii Hunter contract was not a poor contract. I wrote in 2010 that it was one of the fairest deals in all of baseball. Hunter’s second season in Anaheim was the best of his career, and his first and third seasons there were right on par with his career averages. Even if you don’t think his hitting is worth $18MM, his defense and positional value makes the total package well worth it.

      If the fifth year of a deal is the only negative, you’ve got yourself a good deal. And we argued that Vic would get four years, not five.

      3) You sign the best players you can sign. Pence and Victorino give the Phillies a great chance of winning over the next handful of seasons. Do you really think Ruben Amaro is gonna let one walk just so that two outfielders don’t have multi-year deals? Saying two OFs shouldnt have 4-year deals is like saying “the Phillies are too old.” OK…great, but you sign who gives you the best chance to win.

      4) Michael Bourn is represented by Scott Boras. He has speed and defense but less than power than you or I. The way the Phillies are constructed, I’d take Victorino. You get Bourn and then you need to move Jimmy in the order, and I’d rather have Jimmy as a leadoff batter and Victorino batting fifth or sixth than Bourn at the top and Jimmy fifth or sixth.

  6. TheDipsy

    March 9, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    And Pat…..not to blow my own horn (and you can go back and check if you want), I was the FIRST poster to call for the Phils to trade for Halladay. Others said that it was ME that was crazy. Rollins – we all knew the Phils would sign him – I just didn’t want the Phils to get killed in the deal, which they didn’t. Lee? Well that was just unbelievable. Good move.

    Bottom line: The Phils resources, unless they wanna go over the cap, have dwindled to the point where they shouldn’t commit all that money to a guy like Victorino. The examples you cited above, you do that stuff for STARS, not for Shane Victorino.

    The Dipsy

    • Corey Seidman

      March 9, 2012 at 5:22 pm

      And my sarcastic comment above wasn’t designed to be mean or anything, but you make these statements as if you have concrete information or make the Phillies’ decisions.

      “The Phillies will never ever ever ever give Shane Victorino four years, $60 million.” Why, because you personally don’t want them to?

    • Jeff Dowder

      March 9, 2012 at 5:34 pm

      Be careful Dipsy, you were also the FIRST poster to call for the Phillies to trade Domonic Brown and Vance Worley to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp.

  7. DCmikey

    March 9, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Agree w you Dipsy.
    Unless SVic would take a “hometown” discount to stay.
    In a perfect world, DBrown will be the prospect we hope he will be (this into next year) and JMJ will take the other OF position. Cf? JMJ Hunter and DB in ’13.

  8. TheDipsy

    March 9, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    I think Bourn is an FA after this season, unless I’m mistaken.

    The Dipsy

    • George

      March 9, 2012 at 6:47 pm

      That still doesn’t mean he won’t be 30. If you want him long term, he’ll still be getting along in years by the time his contract is up, and because other teams will be bidding, his paycheck might be high, too. He hasn’t been extended yet, but the Braves front office has stated they want him back.

  9. Don M

    March 9, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Everyone knows we’re going to trade Kyle Kendrick to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp.. Because Kendrick is a west coast native..

    Also, Blanton will go to the A’s since they liked him enough before to draft him and we’ll probably get Cespedes and Weekes in return

  10. Mazinman

    March 10, 2012 at 1:55 am

    Great show guys!

    Hamels is definitely the top priority right now. Losing him would be a disaster both in competitive and PR terms. Phillies management has all the pressure in the world to get this done, I think, because Hamels has handled the situation so well. He has said all the right things and made it clear he wants to stay. If the Phillies do not resign him it will do a great deal of damage to the way we see that time. Now we no longer see this team as the Cheap Phillies. That perception would creep back up again if they let Hamels walk.

    I would love to keep Hamels, Victorino, and Pence around but, if I had to pick one to lose, it would be Victorino. I love Shane but Hamels is hugely important and Pence has that great combination of skill and youth that we need to keep.

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