Phillies Drop Fifth Straight Game – Phillies Nation
2012 Game Recaps

Phillies Drop Fifth Straight Game

Hunter Pence and the Phillies seem to have run into a wall during their current five-game losing streak. PHOTO: AP

The misery of Phillies fans everywhere continued tonight as the Dodgers managed to win another close game against the Phillies by a score of 6-5. The loss would be the Phillies fifth in a row, dropping them two games below .500. Coupled with a Nationals win, the loss puts the Phillies six games out of first place, eight back in the loss column.


Kyle Kendrick had pitched well lately, and the Phillies needed him to step up and stop  a losing streak tonight. He withered like a flower without water in the face of the challenge.

– After getting through the first two innings pretty easily, Kendrick got hurt in the third by a single, an RBI triple,  and a John Mayberry error. The sequence would yield two Dodgers runs and give them the lead. Kendrick would follow that up by working himself into a one-out, bases loaded jam. To his credit, KK worked out of it without letting up anymore runs. But it would not be the end of the Dodgers scoring.

–  In the sixth, Kendrick would be charged with three more runs, though two of them came with Raul Valdes on the mound.  It was a disappointing effort for Kendrick, as the offense twice spotted him a lead, and he twice gave it away. To have the pitcher blow the lead when the hitters are finally able to score some runs perfectly encapsulates the season so far. When the pitching is going well, the bats are silent, and vice versa.


– The offense showed a little life tonight by scoring five runs. It wasn’t an offensive explosion, however, and the four runs would not be enough to get the win.

Shane Victorino homered in the second inning to get the scoring started. It was the first time Victorino, who is hitting just (.152) over his last ten games, had an extra base hit since doubling on May 26 against the Cardinals. He would drive another ball well in the ninth, but Tony Gwynn was able to get under it.

Jimmy Rollins gave the Phillies the lead, 4-2, in the fifth inning when he followed up Ty Wigginton‘s solo home run with a two-run shot of his own. The home run was Rollins’s third of the season. After slumping through the first two months of the season, Rollins has started June off on a bit of a hot streak. He’s hitting .308 (8-for-28), with a home run, two triples, and a double since June 1st. After hitting .239 through the first two months of the season, a hot Rollins would be a huge shot in the arm for the offense. Throughout his career, Rollins has had a tendency to start slowly before picking it up in June, and his 2012 splits are currently all well below his career averages. There’s reason to believe he can be better than he has been. At this point, when you’re clinging to any glimmer of hope you can find, Rollins could provide reason to be optimistic.


– The struggles the Phillies have had coming up big late in games have been well-documented. They’re now 0-22 in games in which they trailed after the seventh inning. For the third time this series, the Phillies failed to score a run after the fifth inning. These game stories are getting easier to write because I can pretty much assume the Phils won’t win if they’re down late. This team just doesn’t seem to have that spark, and they never have someone step up and will them to victory.


– So far this season, the Phillies have gone 5-10 in one-run games, including losing all three of these games against the Dodgers by the slimmest of margins. During the five-year run of division titles, winning one-run games was something of a calling cards for the Phillies. From 2007-2011, the Phillies went 122-103 (.542) in one-run games. That number is even better if you don’t include 2007, when the Phils went 14-23 in one-run games. Right now, the Phillies record in one-run games is pretty much the difference between last place and fighting for first place in the division. They need to start winning some of these close ones. Good teams find ways to win close games.


Hunter Pence appeared to hurt his wrist in the third inning when he crashed into the right field wall going back on Tony Gwynn’s triple. Pence would stay in the game after some motion testing by Scott Sheridan, but it may be something to monitor.

– In the fifth inning, Freddy Galvis appeared to injure his back swinging at a pitch. Again Scott Sheridan would venture out from the dugout, and, unlike Hunter Pence, Galvis would not be able to continue. He would attempt finish out his at-bat, but after a few pitches, he was unable to continue. He was replaced in the at-bat by Mike Fontenot, who walked. After the game, it was announced that Galvis would be placed on the 15-day DL. A corresponding move will be announced tomorrow.

– More injuries is just about the last thing this Phillies team needs. You begin to wonder how much more they can endure if Galvis misses extended time, considering their already lengthy DL and the struggles of their offense this season. Chase Utley and Ryan Howard seem to be progressing, and they can’t get back fast enough.


– The Philles five-game losing streak is their longest of the season.  They’ll look to end the streak and salvage a game from this series when they send Cole Hamels to the mound against Aaron Harang tomorrow afternoon.

Click to comment


  1. Catcher

    June 6, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    Well…we know what the Phillies are good at….losing the lead.

  2. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 6, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    Bad enough having the number 2 pay roll in the sport and sucking.

    But I am just gonna memo Charlie and the Rube.

    Thome sucks. This is not 1995 and sending him up downa run in the 9th is basicly throwing in the towel.

    I know its a feel good story and hes one of Charlies guys.

    Ill tell you who Andrew from Waldorfs guys are.
    Guys who win games. I dont care if its Charles Manson, Ghangis Khan or OJ Simpson.

    I guess something doesnt have to give and they will say its injuries yada yada yada.

    Another memo you are old. This comes with it all.

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 6, 2012 at 11:02 pm

      I’m guessing that you’ll see Thome retire on June 18.

      • Chuck A.

        June 6, 2012 at 11:08 pm

        Maybe they can drop him off in Baltimore and he can join another one that needs a walker….Jamie Moyer.

    • schmenkman

      June 6, 2012 at 11:51 pm

      Here is a partial list of hitters who weren’t as good as Thome last year:

      Teixeira, Howard, Youkilis, Kinsler, ARod, Swisher, Zobrist, Butler, Nelson Cruz, McCutchen, McCann, Bruce, Y.Molina, etc….

      Could he have lost it over the off-season? Certainly possible, and he hasn’t done anything to disprove that so far.

      We should get a better idea over the weekend.

      • Jeff Dowder

        June 7, 2012 at 6:28 pm

        Good point. The first thing I thought when the team signed Thome was how glad I was that they didn’t bring in someone like Andrew McCutchen or Jay Bruce.

  3. dcurcio25

    June 6, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    This season so far IS a JOKE

  4. Lefty

    June 6, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    Losing sucks, it really does, very frustrating.

    And this isn’t meant to make anyone feel better, because it won’t, – but at least we are not alone.

    The National League is like bizarro world, the whole league is turned upside down.
    Last year’s playoff teams with this year’s records

    Phillies 28-30
    Milwaukee 25-31
    St Louis 28-28
    Arizona 26-30

    The first three lost key players either to injury or FA, I can’t explain the DBacks, maybe they were a mirage last year?

  5. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 6, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    Chuck you are cracking me up anymore.

    Arizona was a mirage. If the Phils had drawn DBacks Brewers Yankees last year they would have won another WS.

  6. Morris Buttermaker

    June 7, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Team stinks.

  7. SavannahPhilliesPhan

    June 7, 2012 at 4:20 am

    I try not to watch it when they are losing….it helps somehow. It keeps me from getting too frustrated. I wait several hours then watch the results. I stop watching the actual games when they start to get behind. I just can’t stand listening to the announcers from the other side especially. The negativity on all the blog sites is also depressing. So called phans are jumping off the band wagon in droves and of course…there are those” who told us so from the beginning” who keep telling us how they knew this would happen!!! Are they looking for someone to pat them ont the back and tell them how wonderful they are? Who cares if they thought that in ST!!!! Really who gives a sh*t what they think they knew. And I wish management would stop throwing the return of CU and RH out there constantly in order to keep fans interested. This team as it is now will not be competing in the world serier!! And the sooner we admit that the sooner we can get on with trying to improve the roster. What is the point of constantly pointing out the obvious? We are beating a dead horse. RA and the owners need to make serious changes this season. It is not the fault of the player they picked up over the winter. ….they are just not good enough to compete with the power players.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 7, 2012 at 8:45 am

      i agree!

  8. Fritz

    June 7, 2012 at 5:46 am

    They STINK!

  9. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 6:59 am

    What do you people expect? We don’t have the players to compete against the better teams in the league. We’re in a tight game with the Dodgers – its a big series for early in the year – its bad enough the Kendrick is starting it – but then who comes in? A guy named Raul Valdez?

    I mean – injuries should ever be used as an excuse. But……uh. How much is one team supposed to take? Now…Galvis. Look at our lineup. Its really bad.

    The Dipsy

    • Lefty

      June 7, 2012 at 7:37 am

      I know what I expect, I expect the sell out streak to end – today. I’m not saying I’m happy about it, I just think it’s going to happen.

      Go on the Phils website and check out the available tickets for today’s game. They’d have to have a hell of a last minute rush and about 6 hours left (at the time of this comment) to change that. I just checked best available in five different categories of seats, they’re available. But hey, you can get 2 for section 117- 26 rows behind the dugout, that was nearly impossible last season. And they’re only 70 bucks a pop. I wish I didn’t have to work, I’d go to see Cole.

      • schmenkman

        June 7, 2012 at 7:57 am

        Agreed, Lefty — today might be the day. Makes sense that it would be a day game when schools are still in session. The last such game, against Houston on May 15th, was their lowest attendance of the year, with 43,781 (100.3%). They were also 2 games below .500 at that point, but there was more of the “still early” sentiment then.

      • SavannahPhilliesPhan

        June 7, 2012 at 8:49 am

        Loss of revenue from not selling seats is going to spur these owners to do something!! Otherwise they will ride the money train right to the bank. I know their payroll is high now, but these budget players that they picked up in the winter are not doing it. Not their fault of course because they are being asked to do something they are not equipped to handle.

  10. Robert in NJ

    June 7, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Let’s see when that sell out record gets broken this season and also when the fans start peppering the old men on the field. Charlie is a great manager but has an Achilles heal. He is too buddy-buddy with the guys.

    At this point, even if Utley and Howard had a miraculous healing this team is done for the season. Ruben it is time to deal some of these guys and rebuild. The fans would appreciate it and the sell out record may continue if we can see some excitement back on the field.

    Losing is terrible to watch but lethargy is even worse.


    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 7:59 am

      I think you’re mistaking failure with lethargy.

      • EricL

        June 7, 2012 at 9:49 pm

        He’s also mistaking bodily repair (heal) with the back of one’s foot (heel).

  11. Dave

    June 7, 2012 at 7:42 am

    It could be worse…it could be 1988. Now, THAT team was awful. Luis Aguayo and David Palmer anyone?

  12. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Charlie is not a great manager. Charlie was a GOOD manager for the team we HAD. Now, and perhaps going forward, we will have a different team. Right now, this team exposes two of Charlie’s biggest weaknesses:

    1. Handling the pen;
    2. Running an offense that needs to manufacture runs.

    I’ll be honest, I don’t care ho much Papelbon gets “lathered up” in the bullpen. He’s not Smarty Jones. If its not save situation – don’t put him the effin game. You save him for the next day……derrrrrrrrrr.

    The Dipsy

    • George

      June 7, 2012 at 8:56 am

      With the ‘pen the Phils have right now, even Tony LaRussa would look bad managing it.

      The only proven and CONSISTENT arms out there are Papelbon and maybe Bastardo. The long man is currently in the starting rotation. Manuel has the choice right now of running the starter too long, as in the Lee game, or putting in someone like Valdez or a an inexperienced rookie like Diekman.

      The same might be said for the offense. No matter who is at the plate, they don’t seem to drive anyone in. Maybe when a guy is on first, he should try stealing the next three bases. You don’t score runs on popups and Ks.

  13. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:38 am

    I love Charlie. More than some of the other old guys I grew up following. Owens, Dallas Green, Weaver of the Orioles, Sparky, The White Rat Herzog, et al. BUT…. yes, his weaknesses are truly exposed. They actually were last year and the year before and so on…but a winning record has a way of hiding that or EXCUSING that.

    I’m not as critical of the pen as I am of the lineup. J-Roll should NOT be leading off. I don’t give a sh!t how much it upsets him. Whatever happened to the manager making the decisions and not worrying about pissing off a player if he’s dropped down in the order or out of the lineup altogether for that particular game??

    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 8:48 am

      When Rollins is hitting like last year, I have no problem with him leading off, because there are no other options who are clearly better in the leadoff spot than where they typically hit (e.g. Victorino this year, Utley or Werth in past years). Yes, maybe Pierre should bat first as long as he’s hitting well, with Rollins second, but to me that’s just rearranging deck chairs.

      I understand why Manuel stuck with him, and for the past ten games at least (when he’s been the best hitter on the team), he’s been proven right IMO.

      There will come a point (maybe next year, maybe even later this year), when Rollins shows that he can’t pull out of a slump, and then he should be dropped to ~7th.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 7, 2012 at 9:00 am

      i agree chuck 100% if you watch cholly’s manerisms and excuses after the games he just doesn’t have a clue! how do you boost a players confidence (bullpen pitchers) when you let a starter (kendrick) pitch 122 pitches cause you don’t have confidence in the pen before the 9th? How do you leave a fielding challenged fielder the night before(pierre) in the game because he was going to hit in their half of the inning? the anouncers t-bag and motor mouth were all in on that! they even covered for the brainiac manager! one of their comments was that they didn’t know if mayberry would have got to that ball! what a- holes mayberry would have not only got it, he would have had his back to the wall and just reached up and plucked it! besides we were ahead! it wasn’t like we needed baserunners at that point. he just keeps making one blunder after another that costs us games. it’s bad enough when the team doesn’t perform up to par but when the manager loses at least 5-7 games so far … well that’s more frustrating than anything. it’s a tuff year chuck!

  14. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 9:01 am

    He should be dropped to 7th NOW.

    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 9:16 am

      That just sounds vindictive.

    • EricL

      June 7, 2012 at 9:54 pm

      Since May 15th, Jimmy has an OBP of .330.
      Juan Pierre, in that same time period, has an OBP of .333

      Jimmy has more pop, is a better runner, and is getting on base at basically the same rate as Pierre. So unless you have some better option than Juan Pierre, there’s no reason to move Jimmy out of the 1-hole.

  15. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Charlie is good at managing players, he is not good at managing a baseball game…..

    The best part about this losing streak is that I’m gaining some leg room on the bandwagon, which is nice

  16. Manny

    June 7, 2012 at 9:37 am

    These 3 games against the Dodgers were extremely frustrating… losing so many 1-run games is simply not good for the heart. It’s not that we played terrible… we’re definitely improving from what we saw from the team very early on, though.

    The NL East won’t be settled in June… or July… or August. So take a deep breath and try to enjoy the ride.

  17. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Charlie was brought here to manage the three run homer. I will say that very few managers I can think of could squeeze a whole heckuva lot out of this offense. @Manny – what we’re seeing is a team that, while not terrible, has shown its weakness sooner or later, in each of these games. At lease we rotate the ways in which we lose the games – no offense, blown leads, or Blanton and Kendrick on the mound.

    The Dipsy

    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 10:07 am

      He’s doing a pretty good job of squeezing — the offense has been better than the pitching for a month and a half now:

      3rd in runs scored (3rd in games with 3+, 2nd in games with 4+)
      11th in runs allowed


    June 7, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Bring up Dom Brown. Send down Mayberry for some tutelege.

  19. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:05 am

    schmenk, how is that vindictive?? J-Roll is no longer a good leadoff hitter. Do I want him on my team?? Hell, yeah. For many reasons. But not to be the leadoff hitter anymore. Drop him in the order. Why wait?

    As for the bandwagon…yeah…it will be nice to go to games and not have to deal with people that are there only to show off the fact that they are at a Phillies game. I guess it was cool to be “seen” when they were winning but not that they are struggling it just isn’t fashionable anymore.

  20. Manny

    June 7, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Don’t we typically flat out suck in June?

  21. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 10:17 am

    If I tell you that the team sucks right now and that I think we should trade this guy or that guy or fire this guy or that guy, while I continue to watch all the games and root for them with every fiber of my being, I would be interested to know if people would consider me ON or OFF the “bandwagon”. L’il help?

    The Dipsy

  22. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Dipsy, I would define that as ON. It’s the people that only watch when they are doing well and then bitch and complain… or don’t care at all… when they aren’t that are considered bandwagon jumpers. At least that’s my take.


    June 7, 2012 at 11:02 am

    You can be negative and frustrated and still be ON the bandwagon. After over 50 years of rooting for my Phils, I have been negative many times, even when they were winning. I guess it is a part of being passionate and needing to blow off some steam. If I did not have the Phils to focus on, and piss me off and elate me, then I might take these pent up emotions out on my loved ones. Being a fan does have some positives, I guess

  24. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 11:09 am

    That wasn’t directed at you, Dip …. but since you brought it up

    I think it’s hard for people to understand how people that –
    “root for a team with every fiber of their being” —- would talk about how bad they suck right now, and say how everyone within the organization should be fired/traded…

    I know that you are not a bandwagon fan – you’ve been around on this site longer than I …….. but the general fan that treats every win or loss as the definitive monent of this season drive me up a wall . . . . . who says the Phillies can’t have a month like the Marlins just did in May? To me, the season isn’t over til its over
    There was a caller on 97.5 yesterday complaining that Pence didn’t bunt, with a runner on 2nd base – to move him over . . . . . . that is a “Phillies fan” nowadays … people that don’t know d!ck about baseball – Eagles fans that started paying attention to this team literally in 2006-2007 ….. we need them for the payroll/ sellouts, etc . . . but they sure are frustrating to listen to.

    I can’t blame Ruben Amaro for improving (on paper) a team that won 102 games last year … the same way that Charlie only gets so much blame for the struggle of the players ….

    I think Victorino should be traded at the deadline – that’s the only move I would make to this roster.. If they don’t resign Hamels there will be hell to pay – but I think to have any chance at a postseason run, they need to make sure the 1-2-3 Ace Staff is ready to go. I’ll take 1-0, 2-1 wins in the playoffs if that’s what it takes

    • Manny

      June 7, 2012 at 11:39 am

      I agree on all counts.

      • Manny

        June 7, 2012 at 11:41 am

        Except for trading Victorino… unless Howard, Utley, Pence, Polanco, Jimmy suddenly prove that they’re back and can carry the offense. Shane was our best offensive player last year… and we’re having trouble scoring runs more often than not…

      • schmenkman

        June 7, 2012 at 11:47 am

        (since April 23rd: 2nd in the NL in games with 4 or more)

      • Manny

        June 7, 2012 at 12:01 pm

        schmenk, seems like a little nitpicking. Why April 23rd? And why is it worthwhile to highlight only games with 4 or more runs?

      • schmenkman

        June 7, 2012 at 12:04 pm

        The 23rd is simply when the started hitting better. I was reacting to the “having trouble scoring runs more often than not” — 4+ to me would qualify as not having trouble, which is why I picked that. They’re also 3rd in the NL in that time in games with 3 or more.

  25. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Basically – I think its pretty obvious that anyone that devotes a lot of time and attention to this team/organization . . . . is a pretty damn devoted fan. .

    The Bandwagon comment was directly related to the callers you hear on Sports Radio- the knuckleheads that don’t know a knuckleball from a curveball- but cry to Charlie that he didn’t make a defensive sub of Mayberry for Pierre in the 8th inning – despite the fact that Pierre was leading off the next inning) etc. .ugh

  26. GM

    June 7, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I’ll start with this … “For the third time this series, the Phillies failed to score a run after the fifth inning.” … They scored in the ninth last night, maybe waiting until the game is over to write the recap isn’t such a bad idea.

    My next thought is about the criticism of Kendrick, I think he was mostly to blame for the 6th inning, but definitely not the 3rd. Putting all of the blame on Kendrick for last night isn’t really fair when the team can’t catch and they don’t hit. Unfortunately, people don’t like Kendrick and blame him even when its not completely his fault. He wasn’t perfect, but Pence jumping into the wall and missing Gwynn’s triple and then Mayberry’s error on the next plan certainly didn’t help. Those two plays were just as bad as Pierre’s 8th inning miss on Tuesday night, but you’d have a hard time finding someone to blame Lee for losing that game.

    It’s a team game, and last night they lost as a team, way too many failures last night to focus our frustrations on Kyle Kendrick alone. His 4 starts before last night he pitched 27 1/3 innings and gave up 6 total runs, 5 earned for a 1.65 ERA. If you look at the last 5 including last night its a 2.73 ERA. Not too bad for a 6th starter.

    • GM

      June 7, 2012 at 12:00 pm

      And before the comments start flowing, they did score 5 runs last night, but also missed some opportunities.

      9th – Wigginton on 2nd w/ 1 out, Thome strikes out looking, Schneider pops up.
      8th – Pierre on 1st w/ out, Pence grounds into DP

  27. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I would trade Victorino, too. He’s a good player but he’s not what we need right now and he’s up after the season. And I gotta tell ya, I’m not in love with Hunter Pence. Just not. He can hit…unless he’s not hitting. And he is a crime scene in right field my god. Hunter pence ios one of those guys where if he’s not hitting…he doesn’t offer you anything. Here’s a thought: Lets add some speed and defense. lets go get Dee Gordon, the Campana kid from Chicago, and Emilio Bonificio (half tongue in cheek).

    With great starting pitching, speed and defense can carry you a VERY long way. And its cheaper. And it never slumps.

    The Dipsy

    • c schreiber

      June 7, 2012 at 9:03 pm

      Which one of the Big 3 pitchers you suggest we trade for one of them.because that is what it would cost.

    • EricL

      June 7, 2012 at 10:00 pm

      I’m not sure why you would want Dee Gordon if you’re looking for defense. He’s a butcher in the field. He’s also kind of pathetic at the plate, so…maybe not him right now.

  28. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Kyle Kendrick is the LEAST of this team’s problems. People like to moan and complain about him because his last name isn’t Lee, Hamels or Halladay … or he doesn’t have cool glasses like Vanimal. But, the truth is, he’s pitched pretty well over the past 2 years and i’m damn glad Ruben re-signed him like he did.

    • Manny

      June 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm

      I agree with you on this Chuck, though the contract we gave him was a little too much and wasn’t a smart way to spend money… BUT so far, KK is doing a fine job.

  29. Mazinman

    June 7, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I was listening to the game yesterday on the internet and, as I did, I almost fell hard as I tripped on something on my room. The first thing that came across my mind was:

    “Don’t tell me the injury bug is spreading to us fans now!”

    Ruben needs to do something now. There is an epic decision to be made whether or not the team will be buyers or sellers. I think he needs to have a serious talk with everyone involved and make a decision instead of letting things make the decision for him. If the team will go for it this year they need to do something right now otherwise it won’t matter when the Injured players get back. We don’t have an easy June.

    • Don M

      June 7, 2012 at 1:01 pm

      There is nothing to buy or sell right now…… the trade market doesn’t start to take shape for another month – and this year, with the extra Wild Card team – more teams will think they have a chance ….which means less Sellers …….which means if you are a team that is “selling” – you might get overpaid for your players . . . . maybe Victorino brings back a TON

      • c schreiber

        June 7, 2012 at 9:13 pm

        The trade market for the Phils is now.. They need to unload Lee or Hamels while their worth something to others. If they unload Lee his salary loss will help greatly with the contract for Cole. The Phils are going nowhere but down and when and if Utley and Howard get back they will be out of it anyway and when and if they get back the best we can ask of them is how they finished the season last year which wasn’t very good. THE SEASON IS OVER FOR US THIS YEAR. Get something for someone others will give up quality for.

      • EricL

        June 7, 2012 at 10:01 pm

        Honest, I’d rather them trade Pence. He’s got another year of team control and is younger than Victorino, and is thus likely to bring back a lot more talent in any trade.

        Also, because I hate his brain-dead style of play.

  30. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I still think that signing Rollins was the right move… despite everyone’s love affair with Galvis (he’s the new Chris Coste, Lou Marson, Wilson Valdez …. cool to like him too much) ..

    I think that defensively – Rollins is still too solid to let go – and at his worst – he’s still better than Galvis in almost every meaningful offensive category. . . I like Galvis – I just don’t overvalue him the way many seem to right now…. for every clutch hit he’s had- he’s looked overmatched twice as often

    , and I think that a position-change needs to happen for next season…. either Utley to LF… or Rollins to 3b

    To me, the biggest thing that determines the Phillies future … is Domonic Brown – did we keep the right player (Travis D’Arnaud aside) . . . The Phillies made Brown the one guy that was untouchable – we need him to show us why in the years to come

    I like Vic, but I think Mayberry can play CF – if Vic were to be traded at the deadline – he’d likely be the best offensive option out there, with a legit chance to gain a super-prospect ……..and the difference he gives you offensively – I don’t think will win us games in the postseason . . . . I still believe we need to shut teams down with our starting pitching (if Lee holds that lead in Game 2- we beat the Cards that series)…… again, I wouldn’t want Ruben’s job – too many difficult decisions

  31. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    How about BOTH Utley to LF and Rollins to 3B?? And does it make sense to pick up Polly’s option and make him a super-sub…playing a lot of 2B???

    • GM

      June 7, 2012 at 1:49 pm

      If you are planning to keep Polanco, you would leave him at 3B.

    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 1:53 pm

      Do people think that LF will be easier on his knees? I would have thought that that sustained sprinting full speed after several balls every night might be worse than the quick bursts and turns at second.

      I am also interested to see if he’s still one of the best fielders at second, as he was as recently as last year. It may be that this year his knees no longer allow that, but that remains to be seen.

      • George

        June 7, 2012 at 4:34 pm

        Excellent point. Chipper Jones was moved from 3rd to LF, but had to be moved back; his legs bothered him too much in the outfield. The only others I can think of who successfully made similar moves never had bad legs.

  32. upandaway

    June 7, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Agreed, Chuck. KK has provided real value on this roster,doing whatever is asked of him, including emergency starts. Those are tough, with no preparation.

  33. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    From what i’ve read . . . . one of Utley’s biggest problems was the ball to his right (up the middle)…. where he had to plant-hard and throw to 1b ….

    a play that he wouldn’t have to make in LF …… in the NL- the closest postion to DH, is arguably LF, so you can keep his bat in the lineup (while you’re paying him $15 M)… with a better chance to keep him on the field-

    The other question is what works best for the organization . . . to me, the LF next year either needs to be Utley or Brown ……….

    • George

      June 7, 2012 at 4:39 pm

      What about those hits down the line in left? Aren’t those situations where he’d have to go right, plant, and fire the ball to second? What about having to make a leap at the wall?

      Left field is as close to DH as any position, probably, but it’s still light years away defensively. A DH will never suddenly have to catch something.

  34. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    schmenkman, ultimately Utley should probably be a DH…but that doesn’t help the Phillies, except for a few games a year. I would think that making the pivot at second would be harder on the knees but maybe not??

    GM, if Rollins would move to third….which I and a few others have suggested a few times … and Utley to left….someone would need to play second. I would imagine that Galvis would be the natural fit for SS. All this is pure speculation, of course.

    • GM

      June 7, 2012 at 2:44 pm

      Defensively, the infield has been pretty good. I’m not sure why you would shuffle 3 existing pieces if Polanco returns.

      I understand shifting Rollins & Galvis if Polly isn’t back, and I’m OK with Utley to left as well if it keeps him on the field.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 8, 2012 at 9:51 am

      hey chuck, i was checking the phils minor web sites and they have a 2cd basemen whose numbers offensively look pretty decent. i don’t know what kind of fielder he is but from the stats he looks like a contact hitter! he does’t s.o. much and has speed. his name is cesar hernandez. i think he was moved up to reading this year. the other guy harold garcia who was on reading slated to be moved up to LHV tore his knee up in S.T he’s out for the year. they also have a guy cody asche at lakewood whose numbers indicate he’s a contact hitter . he’s a college draftee he’s 22 i see him moving up fast he’s batting 343. as of yesterday, and has power and some speed. if things get too bad this year i don’t see why they couldn’t fast track some of these guys. i’ve been following them and every level up they improved. so if they had to move some players they do have guys in the minors. these are the guys they want cause they seem to be some of the best kept secrets. the one thing that has ticked me more than anything about the phils over the years is their lack of bringing guys up to give them a shot! i think cholly screwed up brown.his bat is fine they should have tutored him on the fielding aspect. it’s always this guy isn’t ready or this or that. it was because of injuries to polanco and thome that utley and howard got their chance. i think that will be the case with some of these other guys i mentioned.

  35. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    It all depends on what the needs are too . . . and if Galvis is a .240-.250 hitter vs a .210-.220 hitter, etc . . .

    If Galvis is Gold Glove worthy at 2b, and can hit for an average-Average …. maybe the play is to keep him at 2b (where Utley would have limited range) to ensure that defensively, the Rollins-Galvis combo up the middle is just about as strong as any team in baseball . . .

    if Galvis can’t hit, gets exposed, and can’t adjust . . . . then Utley stays put … or Rollins stays put (with the Phillies picking up the Polanco option) . ..

    too many unknowns right now

  36. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 7, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Absolutely disgraceful.

    4 errors?
    Lots of empty seats.

    Apparently the sell out strak is fictional anyway.

    I guess since the GM and the orginazation are just throwing in the towel we should too.
    This is acceptable. And it isnt changing.
    Would take some bold moves and they are too gutless to do any of them.

    Would rather dangle the Utley Howard carrot out there for the dumbed down fans who think Wheeler and Mccarthy are speaking the gospel.

    Oh well. The deat goes on.

    At least Carter and Richards get to hoist the cup. Oh that sucks too.

    • schmenkman

      June 7, 2012 at 4:09 pm

      “Absolutely disgraceful.”


      What’s this about the sellout streak?

  37. dcurcio25

    June 7, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Had a 3-0 lead today, blew it, yet again…if any team can find a way to lose games, it’s ours. Ready to see some major moves being made before, during, and after the all star break. These guys have no fire, and no one is stepping up to be a leader. All anyone does in interviews is say that they do their part and the rest is out of their hands…when the phuck did that become an excuse while playing on a “Team”. get the f outta here

  38. Don M

    June 7, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Who cares about the sellout streak – I think they’ve already sold over 3 million tickets for this season

    It’s obvious with all the moves he’s made over the past three seasons that Amaro is definitely throwing in the towel…

  39. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 7, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    They have different ways of equaling a sell out.
    Its like the government and unemployment figures.
    They make them up and what not.

    But I really dont care. This bunch is so bad that it wont be close enough to make up a number soon enough.

    I really think they need a Kirk Gibson/Bowa type of manager who would go insane after a game like today.
    The phils make teams bullpens look s good.

    I love how Mccarthy and Wheeler keep saying that in inter league this year the Phillies have an advantage because of Thome?
    And you are even pretending to be serious broadcasters?

  40. Dave

    June 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Utley will not be playing second base. If he does, he won’t be playing long and will be hurt again. He’s either going to need to go to the OF or go to the AL and be a DH. His cartilage is not going to reform. He’s not getting younger. If he doesn’t realize this, then he’s an idiot.

    • GM

      June 7, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      Thanks for the update Dr. Dave! When did you last examine the patient?

      • Dave

        June 7, 2012 at 5:27 pm

        I’m no doctor GM, but i have stayed at a Holiday Inn recently! Seriously, I’m just using common sense here. Each of the last 2 years he’s needed 8 months to get ready to play. He’s not going to suddenly get healthier with his issue.

  41. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 7, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    @ Don

    You think Ruben Minaya Jr. has done a good job.

    Very tough to take someone with that point of view seriously.

    You have a 176 million pay roll.

    But then you think he improved the team in the offseason.

    Ill clue you in. When your team is all old guys they get worse each year.
    Since all the old guys are locked in long term next years team will be worse.

    vice vera a player like Bryce Harper who is young will be better next year.
    But Polanco and Lee and Halladay will be worse.

    I know I gave up on trying to help you understand the sport a year ago. But there is one more try.

  42. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Yeah, we saw how well the Phillies did when Larry Bowa was the manager…

  43. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Andrew, a question…. are you somehow related to Abner Doubleday? You know, the guy that supposedly invented the sport? Cause you always want to try to explain the game of baseball to the rest of us idiots on here all the time…

  44. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 7, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    I dont want Bowa.
    He was an extreme. All the players hated him.

    Manuel is an extreme to the other side. When you had the best team in the majors that worked. It doesnt work with a mediocre over paid prima donna team.

    This isnt working. And Id like to thnk there is a chance. Before this gets too far out of hand. Since firing the GM is more fore the future. It has to be Manuel. If they want to have a prayer this year. Its not fair as Charlie doesnt deserve it. Firing Ruben Minaya wont matter for this year. He deserves to be fired 1,000,000 times more than Charlie.

    BTW doubleday didnt even really invent baseball they made that story up.
    Believe it or not

    • c schreiber

      June 7, 2012 at 9:27 pm

      Do you really believe its cholly’s fault?? Since when is it the manager’s fault when no seems to be able to drive in a runner in scoring position or misplays a ball for an error or takes a third strike with runners in scoring position or misjudges a flyball or throws a home run ball. Really the manager’s fault.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 8, 2012 at 9:59 am

      the happy mediam would have to be none other than ryne sanberg! i wish they would just do it asap! he would give input as to who in the minors are ready more so than cholly! he’s the guy who sat brown when he played lousey LF! i’d have sat rollins and vic for their lack of offense!

  45. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Andrew – I know that Doubleday didn’t invent baseball. That’s why I said SUPPOSEDLY. Jesus. Do you always have to act like you know everything???

  46. George

    June 7, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Today’s mess points up a few things that should be done, but maybe can’t be yet:

    1. Release Qualls.
    2. Send Mayberry down to work on his hitting.
    3. Never use Wigginton at third.
    4. Prepare to trade at least one player of value, even if it’s for the future and not the present. (The present is almost done for, anyway.)

    This team, for many different reasons (bad luck, bad play, bad bullpen, aces not pitching like aces,bad hitting with runners in scoring position, injuries) is sinking fast, and It may be time to rethink the current team makeup. Fans complain that Manuel has no clue, but watching this team play, I wouldn’t have one either. The performances have been baffling. Sometimes the only way to get around what’s perplexing is just to make some changes.

  47. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Well, here’s a change…and I’m not necessarily proposing it, either. But I know it will come up. Should Charlie be fired? I personally don’t think so but it’s a common thing that teams do sometimes mid-season in order to shake things up and change the culture. I’ve heard that the clubhouse is a mess. So is that on Charlie??

    • Dave

      June 7, 2012 at 5:29 pm

      Chuck, where did you hear that? Are you referring to the Lee/Victorino incident or other stuff that’s been more recent?

  48. Chuck A.

    June 7, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    I’ve heard it on the radio. Supposedly, some guys that have access to the clubhouse and mentioned it. I would think that the Lee/Vic incident certainly is part of it.

    Pat Gallen….any insight???

  49. bacardipr05

    June 7, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    Just not pretty. Theres something wrong here and goes beyond Utley/Howard. Actually a few “somethings”. Im not sure how they going to fix this. The PH of this team is dipping into the acidic rancid stage. Perhaps some of these guys have been together too long. Maybe too many old guys on this team. We need help ASAP. I thought maybe they would stay afloat till Allstar, and maybe a few days off would help. Now im not so sure of that.

    • c schreiber

      June 7, 2012 at 9:35 pm

      Maybe too many old guys on team?? Really. This season is over as this team will not make the playoffs if they add two more slots. A major trade will have too be made and even then it should be for the future. Lee or Hamels need to be involved as thats the only guys we’ll be able to get any quality “young” players for. If they can trade Lee and his salary that will be the $$$ for Cole’s new contract.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 8, 2012 at 10:14 am

      i think you’re on to something with the PH thing! if you noticed in years past they had a confidence, a swagger if you will. that they could overcome being behind by 4 runs. i checked the orioles site and looked at their power stats they’ve only hit 11 more homers than us! yet they’re at the top and we’re at the bottom! the phils lack a confidence to come back! they hit homers but not with many guys on base. if they did their record would be better. however they don’t and it’s not! why? i don’t know, but it seems like they grind the bat to sawdust in the clutch. maybe they bought into the wait for utley howard to come back thing. maybe they don’t feel that management has their backs. after all it was cholly and rube who said from the get go that all they expected was to tread water till the second coming. i think the talent is still there it’s a mental thing. the only way to change that is to change the manager. it’s the quickest way without disrupting the whole cart. and players who still don’t do anything after that (i’d give them a grace period) then move em! to the bench or out! by the way my first thought on PH was power hungry lol.

  50. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Jesus. Our players stink. There is nothing that Manuel can do unless he’s gonna grab the bat off the rack. Might as well keep him and reevaluate at the end of the season when there is clarity on who the players will be. We’re inching closer to the dreaded “time to at least get something for these players” time. Vic – gone. Polanco – gone. Blanton – gone. Mayberry, Brown – gone.

    Hamels. This is where Amaro A) has to decide if he wants Cole at 7/175 and B) can convince ownership to pony up and keep him.

    Will it be “salary cap be damned” or “gotta keep in line with the rest of the troops” (except Yankees)

    Screw the cap. Sign him. We’d only be over it for a year anyway.

    But we are not there yet. But its getting closer.

    The Dipsy

    • EricL

      June 7, 2012 at 10:13 pm

      I think the end up keeping Polanco. His option is actually pretty cheap as far as competent 3B free agents are concerned. If they Phils keep Hamels, Victorino is probably gone. If they keep Victorino, Hamels is probably gone. I just don’t see how they can keep both of them without completely blowing through the luxury tax limit.

      I don’t get the Brown & Mayberry things though. If you’re going to have a firesale and rebuild, why on earth would you get rid of the cheap, young(er) guys in the organization? Brown is still only 24 years old and will be stuck at the league minimum salary for another few years. If you’re rebuilding, those are precisely the kind of guys you don’t get rid of.

      Mayberry can be a competent RH bench bat and defensive sub OF. I think it’s pretty clear that he can’t be a starter against RHP, but he does have enough ability to be useful in a smaller role.

      Blanton is all but untradeable due to his crappy performance, injury history and salary. YOu won’t get anything more than a bag of balls for him.

  51. Jeff Dowder

    June 7, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    @JSalisburyCSN: The Phillies are 13-27 in their last 40 games, including postseason, at CBP

  52. George

    June 7, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    I can see one problem with getting rid of Victorino, Mayberry, and Brown. It leaves a really thin outfield, which would have to be filled with free agents. There just isn’t anyone down on the farm who’s ready yet. Michael Bourn would be a possibility, but rumor has it that he’s looking for $15 million. Trading for good outfielders might not work, either, due to other teams’ demands, usually for top prospects. If the Phils decide to retool, rebuild, or whatever one chooses to call it, they will want to keep those prospects to build with.

    If the Phils can somehow find 2 outfielders worth a darn, and who won’t break the budget, then fine, get rid of Vic, Mayberry, and Brown.

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 7, 2012 at 8:12 pm

      The Giants acquired three outfielders over the winter relatively inexpensively, and they all worked out great so far.

      Melky Cabrera: .366/.406/.536
      Angel Pagan: .320/.357/.461
      Gregor Blanco: .284/.390/.440

      All three combined make less than $12 million, and they gave up very little in the deals for Cabrera and Pagan (Blanco was a free agent). A nice job by Sabean.

      • George

        June 8, 2012 at 9:56 am

        I’d regard that as a major fluke. The Phils don’t have that kind of luck.

        I’ll also point out that Cabrera isn’t going to be working cheap next season, and no one really knows if Pagan or Blanco will keep it up (they don’t have spectacular histories) so it’s only a short-term fix.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 8, 2012 at 10:21 am

      tyson gillies and leandro casto at reading both have good numbers. and what the hell bring up brown! trade vic and pence for whatever you can get! i love lee but trade him. we have trade chips it’s just a matter of having the cahones to do it! and sign hamels! oh yea tyler cloyd needs to be brought up also.

  53. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Bourn’s not getting 15m. Unless its over two years 🙂 I have no problem trading those outfielders for other outfielders that just do what we need. Further, I’m not sure I would have a problem letting Pence go while keeping Vic. You would have Vic, Blanton, Polanco, Mayberry, Brown (plus maybe Hamels) + free agency to come up with your outfielders. I think its eminently doable. Along with your OFs you will need a 3B and and 2SPs.

    3. Pence
    4. Howard
    6. Rollins
    7. Chooch
    8. Galvis

    The rest needs to be filled in.

    The Dipsy

  54. TheDipsy

    June 7, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Look at those OBPs. Its making me salivate. Sabes.

    The Dipsy

  55. Jeff Dowder

    June 7, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    @ToddZolecki: Manuel, on Phils losing edge at home: “I thought we lost that edge quite a while ago, if you want to know the truth. We don’t scare nobody.”


    June 7, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    Time to send Mayberry and Qualls down to Lehigh Valley. We need to bring up a young relief pitcher and give Dom Brown his opportunity.

    Qualls stinks, and could/should develop a new pitch
    Mayberry needs to retool offensively. He is NOT getting the job done.
    Hector Luna can platoon at first and third along with Wigginton.
    Brown can platoon with Pierre, who hits lefties very well.

    Let’s mix things up a little.

  57. brooks

    June 7, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Before today, I was thinking how close these games have been I know, close only counts in horse shoes and dog shit but, it seems the Phils are falling short by just a hair. This slight difference could be made up with Vic coming to life, Mayberry getting into a stride virtually anything – my point is they are close.
    Considering how they have been doing, with the talent that is currently on the squad – I’d say they (well, not all of them) are playing to their capabilities – Vic, Mayberry seem to be the only ones swinging for the fences, and Pence – Pierre, Chooch, Wiggington, Galvis – they are playing more in align with their talent pool.

  58. David

    June 7, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    Request for bereavement day was denied.

  59. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 8, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Chuck you need to update this site more often.
    No game day thread and no post game thread.

    No its not the old mans fault. As much as he is just not a good game day manager. Also his style is good for awhile but this team needs someone up who isnt thier friend and wants to win only. The old man with the best team in baseball is a good fit. The old man with a bunch of over paid old timers? Not so much. Someone needs to make a prima donna cry. Bench them tell them they suck pull a Billy Martin on them.

    I see no chance with this team as it is. And to me the easiest way to spark it is a managerial change. With a 176,000,000.00 pay roll you shuld contend every year.

    Look at Mattingly with the Dodgers and the Orioles with Showalter.

    I dont blame Charlie at all actually. 100% of this mess is on Ruben Minaya Jr.
    But I want to win this year. Even though the old man is my favorite person to ever wear the uniform. It doesnt trump the fact that I want to win.
    Managerial change is maybe the only chance the Phils have in 2012.
    They are now 5.5 games behind 4 teams. If that gets to 8 or 9 or 10 its over.

  60. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 6:21 am

    Andrew, I have nothing to do with the updating of this site. I’m a commentor only. And my comment is that nobody seemed to really care that this thread is a day and a game old – we are just happy to have a place to go to to vent, suggest, share. And I am done venting for now and have nothing new to share right now.

  61. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 6:34 am

    I just read that Mini Mart was activated. The season is saved…

  62. Lefty

    June 8, 2012 at 7:07 am

    Losing sucks. But I was a Phils fan when they won only 59 games in ’72. I will be one forever, no bandwagon for me.

    I hope Brian, Pat, Jonathan, Ian and Ryan, Jay, Kieran and Corey are alright. This is very unusual.

    • Ryne Duren

      June 8, 2012 at 10:30 am

      hey lefty i -itch and moan all the time it’s venting frustration. i’m always on the bandwagon. the problem is i fell off! my feet are still in and somebody’s keeping me from hitting the ground and i can’t see who it is! but my biggest problem is my face is draging on the ground and it hurts! my second biggest problem is the horses pulli the stinkin wagon keep crapping and … well those lumps of crap keep hitting me in the face! sorta like when the phils lose a bad one !ya feel like ya have crap on your face when it’s over

      • Lefty

        June 8, 2012 at 1:10 pm

        You have a strange, but oddly funny sense of humor Ryne. It’s hard to laugh the way things are going right now, but it can’t hurt to try. Thanks man.

    • c schreiber

      June 8, 2012 at 12:09 pm

      Amen to that brother..

  63. TheDipsy

    June 8, 2012 at 7:50 am

    @Eric – The guys I named could all be traded. I would not propose that they all be traded for the sake of being traded. I would hope that RAJ could create such situations where the trades would bring back commensurate value in areas of need that we have. I agree the Polanco would be OK to bring back next year. But an infield with Galvis, Rollins, and Polanco would be punchless. Dom Brown’s value is dropping by the second. The best point I think I can make is that RAJ has assets and free agency. He’s got to do it right. If he does, and if Hamels returns, and Howard comes back, I think we can actually be right back there again.

    The Dipsy

    • George

      June 8, 2012 at 10:23 am

      Trading people for needs is fine. However, Blanton would bring you back nothing but a mediocrity, and you’d still have to pay most of his contract. Mayberry might get you a guy like the Phils gave up for him: a pretty useless prospect. Victorino, although he might get you something useful, would create yet another need: a center fielder.

      It’s easy to make trades in your head, but in reality there are lots more questions to ask yourself. First, you have to figure out exactly where your needs are, you have to figure out if trading a player just creates some new empty position, you have to decide who has what you need and determine if they’ll give that player up, you have to measure your own player’s talents against that of the player you might obtain, and you have to weigh in fan response, budgets, possible attendance drops, and clubhouse chemistry.

      I’m not saying it can’t be done. But it’s not easy when your own team has very little to offer except players you’d probably want to keep, like Hamels, Ruiz, or Lee.

      • EricL

        June 8, 2012 at 3:08 pm

        Honestly, I think Ruiz is one of the better options to move if this team becomes sellers near the dealine. He’s 33, has another year under contract, and is having a career year. Sell high and buy low. Unless he turns into Barry Bonds he’s very unlikely to ever have as much value as he does right now. And if you’re out of it this year, get what you can for him and move on to the Kratz/Valle era.

      • schmenkman

        June 8, 2012 at 3:57 pm

        That’s thinking out of the box, given how popular he is right now. I don’t like it, but I have to admit it makes sense (if they’re far enough out of it, which, you know, they aren’t going to be).

  64. Don M

    June 8, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I like reading comments about teams getting younger, Strasburg & Harper were drafted #1 because the Nats were terrible for so long ……… The Orioles have been bad for like the past 15 years…

    If everyone wants the Phillies to be a team full of young, up-and-coming players…. You have to wait a few years, and sit through terrible seasons first

    At the start of 2011, the Phillies were the favorite to win it all… At the start of the 2011 playoff they were the favorite to win it all….. Then we lost to a red hot Cardinals team that would go on to win the whole thing …….. Ruben Minaya Jr then went out and improved his bench and closer… They entered spring training as the favorite in the NL. How that gets qualified as a terrible job by the GM I don’t know… Again, we could be the Nats or Orioles

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 8, 2012 at 10:29 am

      Take a look at how many players on the Cardinals roster have been drafted by them:

      Yadier Molina
      Matt Carpenter
      Tyler Greene
      Jon Jay
      Daniel Descalso
      Skip Schumaker
      Allen Craig
      Shane Robinson
      Matt Adams
      Lance Lynn
      Jaime Garcia
      Kyle McClellan
      Mitchell Boggs

      You don’t need to go through terrible seasons to have a productive farm system. When you can pull a guy like Matt Carpenter or Matt Adams out of your farm system you don’t need to resort to retreads like Wigginton or Nix in free agency. When you’ve drafted guys like Jon Jay and Allen Craig you don’t need guys like Ibanez or Pierre to plug holes.

      The Phillies drafting lower in the draft is no excuse – St. Louis seems to have it figured out.

      • George

        June 8, 2012 at 10:43 am

        The exception that proves the rule, Jeff.

      • Jeff Dowder

        June 8, 2012 at 1:34 pm

        What’s the exception? What’s the rule? Are you saying that the Cardinals are lucky in the draft and the Phillies have been unlucky?

        Maybe it’s as simple as St. Louis having better scouts evaluating talent.

        Yadier Molina 4th round

        Skip Schumaker 5th round

        Kyle McClellan 25th round

        Jason Motte 19th round

        Tyler Greene 1st round
        Mitchell Boggs 5th round
        Jaime Garcia 22nd round

        Jon Jay 2nd round
        Shane Robinson 5th round
        Allen Craig 8th round

        Daniel Descalso 3rd round

        Lance Lynn 1st round

        Matt Carpenter 13th round
        Matt Adams 23rd round

      • George

        June 8, 2012 at 2:49 pm

        The rule would be that not very many teams are that lucky. Scouting has something to do with it, but so do injuries, prospects who don’t maintain the talent that got them drafted in the first place, being screwed out of draft picks when your prime free agent signs with a bottom fifteen team, and trades to replace a player who has suffered a career, or at least a season ending injury.

        The Cards do have talent; they’re always close. But they didn’t even win their own division last season, and their series win was partly a product of getting hot at the right time, while other teams got cold.

        I also note that you’ve cited five players who were drafted 4th round or above. That’s hardly an argument to support your claim that “The Phillies drafting lower in the draft is no excuse.”

    • George

      June 8, 2012 at 10:39 am

      I, too, enjoy that. I particularly enjoy noting that so many young guys are currently on disabled lists; people like Kemp. Or noting that the aforementioned Strasburg has had T.J. surgery and that Johnson, on Miami, has had numerous arm issues. I also like reading about the under-performance of guys like Justin Upton.

      That said, however, I have to say that the Phils are in a decline stage at present; it’s just the way of baseball and is no one’s fault, really. Unfortunately, the fans may have to soon experience some bad years while deck chairs are rearranged or thrown overboard to make way for the new.

  65. Manny

    June 8, 2012 at 10:31 am

    What’s this Lee/Victorino incident people were talking about?

  66. Manny

    June 8, 2012 at 11:42 am


  67. Betasigmadeltashag

    June 8, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Where is the tailgate for tonight’s game

  68. Lefty

    June 8, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Don M, What’s going on with postings? Is everyone okay?

    • Jeff Dowder

      June 8, 2012 at 1:36 pm

      The staff has abandoned the website!

  69. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 8, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    You could be the Nats or Orioles.
    They are both in first place and do not have rosters litered with geriatrics and cripples.

    Again better to be favored to win then to actualy win.
    In Donnyland where Ruben is doing great

    2011 the best team lost.
    Same as 2010.

    At least in 2012 the nonsense will cease?
    Or will it?
    Last place bestest.

    Your $176,000,000.00 is well spent.
    On the best team.

    • Don M

      June 8, 2012 at 5:31 pm

      But do you do realize that over the past 5+ years, those two teams have been the worst of the worst …… But because they sit in 1st place on June 8th- you wish the Phillies would run their organization similarly to those two teams??

    • Don M

      June 8, 2012 at 5:36 pm

      Nobody ever said that it’s better to be favored to win -than to actually win ……. If you would out on your comprehension shoes for a minute you would see that a GMs job is to put together a talented roster…. Which Amaro has done, but since you only look at the final outcome of the season … You would probably say the Braves run in the 90s wasn’t all that impressive since they didn’t win the World Series every year

  70. TheDipsy

    June 8, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    I’ll Have Another not racing because of tendonitis? Give me a break! That is so weak. The Dipsy over/under for tonites game is 11 1/2. Yes, they have abandoned the site, This will be the last thread ever so lets all learn to like it. It’ll be a “free association” thread.

    The Dipsy

    • schmenkman

      June 8, 2012 at 4:00 pm

      Why in Big Ed Delahanty’s day they would have wrapped that leg tight and sent the pony out there dadgum it!

      • George

        June 8, 2012 at 4:55 pm

        You may be right. But then they would have shot the poor beast, because they wouldn’t have known how to fix the resulting leg damage.

    • EricL

      June 8, 2012 at 7:03 pm

      Eh, the Triple Crown is a joke anymore.

      Horses aren’t bred and trained to run 3 races in such a short time span. Either move the races apart or stop worrying about it. had a good piece on it today.

  71. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 8, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Horse racing and the Dipsy.

    I am guessing not 2 people here even are aware of Harrahs philadelphia which use to be Harrahs chester.

    My angle on the Belmont was to bet the 11 other horses.
    It pays. IHA (I’ll have another) was 4/5 and they would have lined up to bet him. On 3 legs.
    Its what they do (see Howard, Utley , Rollins).

    Check the pay outs when Smarty Jones and Big brown lost. Money to be made.

    He was going to lose. They all lose.
    I blame Ruben and Chuck A for my lack of making money tomorrow.

  72. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    What!!??!! I was so hyped up for that race tomorrow.

  73. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Yeah, Andrew it’s all my fault.

  74. Jeff Dowder

    June 8, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    @jaysonst: In the history of baseball, only two teams have won at least 102 games one season and finished with a losing season the next — the 1970-71 Reds and the 1993-94 Giants. And those Giants barely count, because they were only five games under .500 when the strike of 1994 so rudely interrupted their season with 47 games to go.

  75. Lefty

    June 8, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    “MLB execs believe Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. is aiming to make his team younger. Phillies scouts are eyeing young third basemen and center fielders as Placido Polanco and Shane Victorino near free agency.”
    Jayson Stark

  76. Andrew from Waldorf

    June 8, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    They did score more runs than their opponents.

    Re: Jim Merritt (the Kyle Kendrick (Cliff Lee) if you will) of the 71 Reds.

    1969 17-9
    1970 20-12
    1971 1-11

    He is only 68 and has 81 career wins.

    Ruben he has potential.

  77. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    So, if they’re eyeing younger players, specifically centerfielders, that would maybe mean the end for Vic….which maybe bodes well for re-signing Hamels.

  78. Chuck A.

    June 8, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Eric, schmenk – I think hell would have to freeze over before the Phillies would even THINK of trading Carlos Ruiz. I get the logic….but it ain’t hapennin’

    • George

      June 8, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      Baseball is a business, so it could happen. The Phils do have an up-and-coming catcher, and Ruiz would probably bring back a decent haul.

      They’d be risking fan revolt, of course, and Ruiz, with his rather low pay, certainly won’t give them any real budget relief. But if the return was really overwhelming, they still might do it.

      My own feelings, though, are that they won’t trade him. Valle isn’t ready yet, Ruiz is cheap and productive, and I doubt that the pitchers will want to throw to Schneider and Kratz all the time. That could even be the deciding thing that might drive Cole Hamels from Philadelphia.

      • EricL

        June 8, 2012 at 7:07 pm

        Oh, I’m almost 100% sure it won’t happen. I’m just saying that if they collapse and are truly out of contention, and are looking to be sellers at the deadline, he very well may be their most valuable trade chip, and he’s highly unlikely to ever be as good or valuable as he is right now.

        I don’t think trading him would necessarily effect any of the potential free agents, but then I’m not in the locker room so I don’t know. But, you know, it’d be pretty hard to turn down a 9-figure offer from the club that I came up with in the city that I’ve lived and made my family in, just because they traded away a catcher.

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