Phillies Nation TV: Things That Went Right/Wrong in ’12 – Phillies Nation
Phillies Nation TV

Phillies Nation TV: Things That Went Right/Wrong in ’12

On Phillies Nation TV this week, Corey and I give you the three things that went wrong this season as well as a few things that ended up right for the Phillies. (Note: we could have gone on all day about what went wrong, but for the sake of time, we had to cut it at three).

Some of the things that went wrong: Halladay’s shoulder, the bullpen, and the injuries to Utley/Howard.

The right: Chooch’s season, Cole Hamels contract, and the trades made at midseason.

We also answer reader comments and questions, see if your name made it in the show. And we discuss the Cody Ross rumor and Domonic Brown’s season. Enjoy!

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  1. Whatever

    September 25, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    You guys kinda dismiss Cliff Lee as a positive for the Phillies. Look at his stats in comparison to Hamels. They’re basically the same ….. except he didn’t get the wins. And offensive support had a lot to do with that. If the Phillies had squeezed into the playoffs – Cliff Lee is whom I would have wanted to start that one game playoff.

    • schmenkman

      September 25, 2012 at 3:16 pm

      Completely agree. Hamels and Lee’s underlying stats are very similar:

      pitcher A: 198.0 IP, 8.86 K/9, 1.27 BB/9, 1.05 HR/9, .313 BABIP, 4.8 WAR
      pitcher B: 203.1 IP, 8.94 K/9, 2.21 BB/9, 1.06 HR/9, .286 BABIP, 4.0 WAR

    • Ken Bland

      September 25, 2012 at 6:53 pm

      Dear Whoever,

      Two guys hit .320 for the year. One guy hits between .315 and .325 each of the 6 months of the season. The other guy rotates between .260 and .380, bottom lining at the same .320. Obviously, many other factors go into determinging who had a better year, but that general idea should tell you all you need tio know about who had a better year. Now that’s a separate topic from who would have been wise to choose to start a playoff game (part of your point), which is also a decision of multiple factors, but for a 1 game situation, if Cliff’s on a roll, that’s not a bad choice. But let’s not make his year out to be more than he deserves, just as those jumping his throat when he pitched less than well probably overreactewd. But I’ll tke Cole’s year.

      Notice I changed your name in the address line. Whoever seems more grammatically correct than whatever, which doesn’t personify an ability to write.

      • schmenkman

        September 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm

        I assumed Whatever’s name was in reference to Lee, who’s famous for saying that.

      • Ken Bland

        September 25, 2012 at 7:54 pm

        let’s play multiple choice

        choose the correct answer in reply to the whatever explanation

        a/ didn’t we all

        b/ no bleep, Burrlock

        c/ whatever

      • Lefty

        September 25, 2012 at 7:56 pm

        I agree with KB here, nick. End of year numbers don’t show the volatility of the ups and downs. I’m a big Cliff Lee fan, and he is as good as it gets when he is on, but sometimes he’s not, and you have to be careful on decisions as important as “whatever’s” scenario of who starts a one game playoff like that. It’s not the same as a series. IMO- You HAVE to go with Hamels.

      • schmenkman

        September 25, 2012 at 9:07 pm

        I don’t think the difference in their consistency is quite as much as people think.

        Game scores is one way to look at this:

        70+ …..Lee 8 games, Hamels 7
        50-69 ..Lee 13 games, Hamels 16
        <50 ……Lee 7 games, Hamels 6

      • EricL

        September 26, 2012 at 5:20 pm

        Oh jeez, not this line of reason again. If two guys hit .320, all else being equal, how they got there is irrelevant. They’re equally valuable offensive players.

        Let’s imagine two teams:
        Team A scores 5 runs per game, daily.
        Team B scores 8 runs on even days, 2 runs on odd days.

        I have the feeling that Ken thinks team A would be the better offensive team. That’d be wrong. Both teams score 10 runs every two days, 20 runs every 4 days, etc.. If those teams faced each every day they’d each have identical .500 records. They’re the same offensive team. The way they got there isn’t important.

        Using your .320 scenario, sure, you’ll probably win at a steadier rate if you have a guy who never went above .325 or below .315, but the “streakier” guy will win you games that you wouldn’t have won when he’s hot because you’re scoring more runs, and he’ll lose a similar number of games you otherwise would have won when he’s cold and the team is scoring slightly less. That’s just how averages work out over large sample sizes.

      • Ken Bland

        September 26, 2012 at 6:57 pm

        Eric L,

        While your reply to my post was within the boundaries of clean language, and not a personal attack, I considered it quite assanine. I got zero problem with taking the needle in a humorous way, but oh, geez, not this again is taken here as condascending and disrespectful. I’m not to into that. Understated.

        As was made quite clear in my post, it’s my opinion that Hamels had a more consistent yeat.
        I didn’t and won’t get into the degree of that, and was crystal clear on batting average not being a singular factor to determine who had a better year. Pardon me for being a fan of consistency. And not being a fan of your arrogant mentality that paints baseball as black and white as opposed to interpretation that keeps water cooler discussions alive.

      • EricL

        September 27, 2012 at 12:13 am

        Sorry Ken, I didn’t mean to rustle your jimmies.

        I was just using the “aw jeez” in the sense that I’ve seen that same argument made here before, and have debunked it similarly. Your assertion was that it was obvious which player had the better offensive season, and my response is basically that it’s not obvious, because the seasons are identical. Anyway, I voice my opinion strongly, but there are also times when I’m stating fact, not opinion, and when doing so there’s really no other side for me to consider.

        But back to the topic at hand…If you’re talking about who you want to pitch a one-game situation, sure, there’s room for debate there, but if you’re talking about two guys who finish the year with identical offensive slash lines as you were in the example you used (and, as I said, all else being equal…like fielding/positions/SB-CS/etc) then how they got to that final statistic is irrelevant and has no bearing on who had the better season. Their offensive seasons were equally valuable and neither was any better than the other.

        And, btw, I also think schmenk’s provided a pretty good refutation of your assertion that Hamels’ year has been more consistent than Lee’s.

  2. schmenkman

    September 26, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    Interesting article on Cliff Lee’s weird season that appeared today…

    • Whatever

      September 26, 2012 at 8:31 pm

      That was a great article. Thanks very much for posting the link to it. My buds and I really respect Mr. Lee and feel he hasn’t gotten any acknowledgement for a very good year – and dude actually has been consistent despite the myth that some people carry around with them. Except for one or two starts, Lee has been consistently good and at other times consistently awesome.

      (And he even missed 3 starts due to an oblique injury from which he returned to the active roster as quickly as I’ve seen from the usual month or more+ time off due to an oblique.)

    • Lefty

      September 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm

      Very interesting.

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