Blue Jays Claim Herndon – Phillies Nation

Blue Jays Claim Herndon

After a season which was mostly lost to an injured elbow, David Herndon will head north. He has been claimed by the Toronto Blue Jays off waivers.

Herndon, 27, pitched in just five games in 2012 with the Phillies before suffering a flexor pronator strain in his pitching elbow, which led to Tommy John surgery in June. In 97 career appearances in the big leagues, Herndon is 2-8 with a 3.95 ERA.

It looked like Herndon was finally beginning to figure it out before the elbow injury derailed him for good this past season. The heavy sinker the Phillies saw in spring training prior to the 2010 season never fully materialized.

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  1. Fuhs

    October 23, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    No big loss. I doubt he’d have made the team, especially if Ruben wants a veteran 8th inning guy.


    October 23, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    I hope he finds a home and does well in Toronto.

  3. Ken Bland

    October 23, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    I saw yesterday where Jose Vaverde said he untapped a mechanical flaw. Last time I remember a pitcher saying that was Chad Qualls. Time before that was David Herndon. Herndon actually pitched pretty well after some blase action after saying thatr. This just in…Qualls didn’t. But Herndon was a guy who had his moments, and that was about it. Good mileage for a mop up guy acquired via the Rule 5 draft. Good riddance? Not quite that bad, but this is ESSENTIALLY an addition by subtraction. Alittle harsh, since you can’t have a staff of 11 all-stars, but it’s not hard to flip into life moves on mode with the news.

    Now what may be more unfortunate, and don’t lose focus on that operative may word is the news that Ozzie Guillen is gone. I haven’t read of any possible successors, but I’m sure Bobby Valentine will be thrown around, but more importantly, strictly a hunch, but I won’t be at all surprised if they seek to speak to Ryne Sandberg. Considering what a joke that franchise has been, he’d offer some excellent instant credibility, even if it is on managerial potential. If they call, he’s got to talk.

  4. EricL

    October 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Uh, what the hell? Why are they putting Herndon through waivers now? To be honest, I really liked Herndon. Totally disagree with San Fransisco Ken above me here.

    From May 1 2011 through the end of August of the 2011 season:

    34 IP, 30 H, 28 SO, 3 BB(!), 1.59 ERA, Opponent line: .236/.260/.354

    I know those are selective dates which exclude most of the damage, but I think it’s illustrative of the kind of stuff he could have when he was on. Further, a lot of the damage to his line was done during that super fluky September series in Flordia, when he gave up three bombs to the Marlins on Sept 3, and then came back and was forced to pitch the 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th innings the next day because Chuckles had run out of pitchers available. He ended up throwing nearly 70 pitches, walked 7 guys and walked another 7 in his final 7 innings of the season after walking a total of 3 all summer.

    I don’t think it would be totally out of line to suggest that he was severely mishandled there, and his subsequent arm troubles perhaps were a result.

    Either way, I thought he had a good sinker and was a very good option out of the pen; I letting him go for nothing here is an ugly mistake.

    • George

      October 23, 2012 at 6:59 pm

      I also think that Herndon was not nearly as bad as some fans made him out to be.

      The problem now, though, is he’ll most likely miss the first part of the season after TJ surgery, and the Phils have other options. As an injured and not great pitcher he wouldn’t have brought anything back in trade, anyway.

      Interesting thoughts about misuse. I’m not sure myself, because he had an entire offseason to rest before his elbow actually went. That said, injuries can sometimes be delayed reactions to stress. Even had an injury not occured, using Herndon so much in two days was definitely a bad move; the most egregious bad move Manuel has ever made.

      • EricL

        October 23, 2012 at 8:42 pm

        Let me preface this by saying I have no idea what the inside of Herndon’s elbow looked like, and maybe the Phils had imaging studies that said he was fine, so this is all speculation.

        But, if he did have a partial tear of his UCL in early September, 6-7 months of rest won’t hear a torn ligament. Ligaments are avascular and heal extremely slowly, if at all (depending upon the severity of the tear), on their own.

      • George

        October 23, 2012 at 10:22 pm

        None of us have that information, so anything is speculation. I would agree that any partial tear would not heal in an off season, but somehow I doubt that he’d have been allowed to pitch with one. Most teams conduct pretty extensive physicals on players at the beginning of spring training, or so I’ve read, and it would be unusual for a tear not to show up.

        Still, I never could figure out why he was used for four innings after pitching the night before. I thought it was a stupid thing to do at the time, and I still think it was stupid. If the ‘pen is short handed, you sacrifice the game with a middle infielder or fourth outfielder on the mound, you don’t risk sacrificing a person’s arm.

      • Ryne Duren

        October 24, 2012 at 10:38 am

        i’m with you george. i don’t think he was that bad. he had some good stretches and some bad. he lacked consistancy. and on the misuse part of your comment i agree, but not just your point on herndon, but the whole pen was mishandled in my eyes. a lot of times he would leave a pitcher in too long or he would yank a young pitcher or a guy like bastardo out when they had a chance to gain confidence.

    • Ken Bland

      October 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm

      Tha strikes me as a well articulated credible view. But I can’t help but sense that perhaps a change of scenery is what increases the chance to more realistic that his productivity becomes consistently good. Not that he was unhappy here, at least from quotes I recall from him that were very positive. Maybe he WAS mishandled. I know there were times when I wondered why Charlie seemed so remiss in using him in gotta trust him situations. But I’m still more I’ll believe it when I see it than disappointed he’s gone.

  5. Jay Floyd

    October 23, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    With a lengthy list of young arms like Aumont, De Fratus, Stutes, Lindblom, Knigge, Pettibone, May, Bonilla, Shreve and loads of others on board, the Phillies shouldn’t miss Herndon. He does, however, stand a chance at being a really good find for Toronto, who struggled mightily with pitching this year.

    • EricL

      October 23, 2012 at 7:54 pm

      There’s a difference between the Phillies being able to relatively easily replace him and losing a player that has value to other teams for nothing.

      If I’m a rich guy, I’m not just dropping benjamins all over the sidewalk because I have more in my other pocket.

      • George

        October 24, 2012 at 10:04 am

        I doubt seriouslty that an injured Herndon had much value at all.

        If they’d kept him the Phils would also have to pay him to sit on the bench for half the season while he recovered from TJ.

        They also needed roster space to sign potentially more talented pieces.

        Sometimes you have to lose a little to gain a lot. I’d hardly call waiving Herndon “dropping benjamins all over the sidewalk…”

  6. bacardipr

    October 23, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Hmmm at first i didnt like Herndon. Then i thought he was ok’ish as Jay said the Phils have many potential arms to fill the role. Plus they need room to select the next Mini-Mart from rule 5 draft.

  7. Ken Bland

    October 23, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    •The Phillies announced that they have outrighted infielder Michael Martinez to Triple-A. Martinez, 30, saw time at shortstop, second base, third base, and every outfield position in parts of two big league seasons with the club. In 133 games during that stretch, Martinez posted a slash line of .188/.241/.272.

    • Lefty

      October 23, 2012 at 8:26 pm

      Woooooo Hooooooo! Finally

  8. psujoe

    October 23, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Must be some names that have to be added to the 40 man roster or they’ll be eligable for the rule 5 draft? I didn’t like herndon at first, but thought he was ok as a long/disaster reliever. Bye bye Michael Maritinez!

    • chuck schreiber

      October 23, 2012 at 11:52 pm

      What are we going to do now with all the openings (3b, lf, cf), plus he’s a switch nonhitter. Please Rube say it isn’t so.

      • Bruce

        October 24, 2012 at 12:35 am

        Amaro may look in house for filling 3b, lf and cf. He may want to give Frandsen a long look at 3b. He didn’t hurt the team defensively there after he was called up from the minors. Plus he did a great imitation of Derek Jeter as a hitter (smile).

        CF is for Mayberry Jr to lose. He played well defensively and time is on his side to improve as a hitter. He showed signs of coming around offensively in the last two months of the season. Mayberry is not going anywhere since he has ability to play other positions in Of and 1b. That’s is added value a manager can’t ignore.

        Finally, leftfield is an opening for Darin Ruff and other outfielders (including Wiggington) on the roster. That position could become a platoon situation as well.

        Just a gut feeling here that toward the end of the free agency period if Victorino is still available and willing to take a reasonable offer from the Phillies, he may rejoin the team and play CF again where he won several gold gloves.

        One side note: Congratulations to Hunter Pence. He finally made it to the World Series. I’ll bet he is grateful to the Phillies for senting him to Frisco Giants. 🙂

      • hk

        October 24, 2012 at 6:42 am


        Why would Rube accumulate salary flexibility by trading Pence if he didn’t at least plan to acquire one free agent OF after the season? I would be willing to bet that the Phillies acquire a major upgrade at at least one of those three positions (3B, LF or CF). CF should not be Mayberry, Jr.’s to lose following a year in which he pretty much confirmed that he is nothing more than a platoon hitter (career .680 OPS vs. RHP’s and .875 OPS vs. LHP’s). JMJ should be in the lineup either at 1B or in the OF every time the opposing team starts a LHP and he should be glued to the bench whenever the Phils face a RHP.

        Wigginton was such a disaster this year that Rube should be fired if his option is picked up. He sucks in the field, on the base paths and at bat. Other than that, he brings a lot to the table.

        I would be okay with Shane coming back here at a reasonable price (in $ and years), but only if the team spends the money they save (by not acquiring a better CF) to strengthen another position. It seems as though the free agent market is deep in CF’s and #3 or #4 starters, so this should be a good off-season to be in the market for those. I would be happy if the Phils spend ~$10M on Shane (for a max of 3 years) instead of ~$16M on Michael Bourn and apply the savings towards a contract for someone like Shaun Marcum or Edwin Jackson.

  9. bacardipr

    October 24, 2012 at 7:17 am

    With question marks surronding Halladay/Worley it would make some sense to pick up Marcum or Edwin Jackson (types). However we know Rube will bring in some “guy” with a potential upside (has been/old dude) as his been his usual pattern. JMJ has proven he isnt a everyday player. This club needs offensive help. I expect Rube to make at least one major positional player signing this year. Im also leery that Rube will overspend on Bourne. As a small note i like Frandsden and what he did just not sure he is everyday player or/and his season wasnt a fluke. This year more so than the rest Rube has a lot of work to do.

    • George

      October 24, 2012 at 9:53 am

      I think you are being unfair (and also putting words in people’s mouth’s) in saying “Rube will bring in some “guy” with a potential upside (has been/old dude) .” The old guys he signed in the past few years were, in the cases of Polanco and Ibanez, pretty much all that was available. Polly was second choice to Beltre, who is neither old nor a has been. Bench positions, like Wiggy or Nix or Pierre, are usually filled with whatever is available, because of cost considerations.

      Think what you will, but please also note that Mayberry was brought in because he had potential. He’s in his twenties. Francisco had potential (although it didn’t work out). He’s in his twenties. Pence was traded for. He’s in his twenties. Other additions, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Lindblom, are also in their twenties. Papelbon isn’t exactly an antique.

      The unfortunate thing is that by the time a player hits free agency, he’s usually in his thirties. He’s also very expensive if he still has talent. If that talent washes out in a year or two, he’ll ALWAYS appear old.

      Amaro has freed up a lot of money this year by dumping some old dudes/has beens. He’s probably not looking to add mere “potential” in the form of more old dudes.

      • hk

        October 24, 2012 at 10:22 am

        With Polanco, I agree. If they could not sign Beltre, Polanco seemed to be the best option. However, at the time, I wished that they had made a bigger push to sign Beltre.

        With Ibanez, I disagree that they had other options and, even if they were set on Ibanez, the market was such that they overpaid in dollars and years. When they signed Ibanez, Adam Dunn signed with Washington for one fewer year and a few million fewer dollars and Washington got a lot more value from Dunn than the Phils got from Ibanez. Washington also received draft pick compensation when Dunn signed with the White Sox that the Nats turned into Alex Meyer, who’s Jonathan Mayo ranks as the 50th best prospect in MLB). They also could have re-signed Burrell for fewer years and dollars than Ibanez.

  10. bacardipr

    October 24, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    George i meant guys like Baez, Willis, Wigginton, Schneider Part 2, Qualls and his other little projects/upside guys that didnt work out.

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