Jealous of the Giants? – Phillies Nation

Jealous of the Giants?

Kung Fu Panda became a legend. (

This morning, a twitter follower of mine sent me a seemingly innocuous tweet: “why can’t the Phillies be like the Giants?” Seems like a simple question, right?

Three things get a team through the postseason: luck, timely hitting/pitching, and getting hot at the right time. Seems like a simple equation for winning, right?

The San Francisco Giants are putting all three of those important ingredients into the stew at the same time and getting great results. As we’ve come to find out, it’s not always the most talented team that wins, but the team that can best figure out how to get a couple of large hits and big innings from pitchers, stay rolling, and get some luck to go your way.

In no way am I trying to downplay how well the Giants have played. There’s no doubt they have a strong level of talent all over the field and in the rotation. But, if you’re asking can the Phillies be like the Giants, it’s based on getting lucky.

The Phillies had a shot at Ryan Vogelsong, an un-vogel-sung hero the last year-plus for San Fran, in spring training last year. Marco Scutaro, a 36-year-old journeyman playing for his sixth team in 11 seasons, is getting big hits all over the place – and that’s after it looked like Matt Holliday ended his playoffs with a wicked slide into second base in the NLCS. Pablo Sandoval, who hit 12 home runs all season, hits three of them in one game, two off the best pitcher in the world, Justin Verlander, to etch his name in the annals of baseball history with the likes of Ruth, Reggie, and Pujols.


Barry Zito, who has a 4.47 ERA since signing a $126 million deal with the Giants, suddenly becomes Sandy Koufax in the postseason and outduels Verlander in Game one. Hunter Pence posts a .671 OPS with the Giants this season after his trade from the Phillies, posts a .179 average in the NLCS, then triple-hits a baseball, helping lead an improbable comeback series win over the Cardinals.

So to say you want the Phillies to be like the Giants is to say you’d like healthy players for most of the season, a dash of luck, and a hint of clutchitutde.

Click to comment


  1. Pat Sullivan

    October 25, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    If you ranked the last 40 World Series champions, the 2010 Giants would probably be in the bottom half of those rankings.

    And this Giants team is considerably worse than the 2010 version. I really don’t know how they’re pulling this off.

    • brian

      October 25, 2012 at 3:25 pm

      I agree, Pat. It’s quite hard to believe they won 94 games. Especially with Lincecum having an off year.

    • brooks

      October 25, 2012 at 9:33 pm

      No WS team was worse than the 2010 Giants – all replacement players and who is still on the team?
      Like him or not, Pablo is a force at third and at the plate, the best catcher in baseball (OK, tied with Senor Chooch), I like their CF and Cabrera had what appears to be a peak season. Cap that with Cain, Bumgarner a revitalized Zito with Lincecum having his worst season as a pro – Vogelsong had his best and the relief was more than decent.
      I like this team but am rooting for the Tigers..
      Point is, this team is much better than the 2010 Fraud Giants (led by Betsy Ross)

    • Bobby

      October 26, 2012 at 6:01 pm

      Dude…you are sad. I can go on and on about this…but I’ll let a professional sportswriter do my talking… from today…

      Not to discourage aspiring screenwriters in Panda hats, but the truth is the Giants are winning baseball games in the most tried and true way over more than a century of baseball. It doesn’t make for a good script, but pitching and defense have carried the Giants to within two games of their second world championship in the past three World Series.

      Since San Francisco faced elimination against St. Louis in the NLCS, down three games to one, it has run off five consecutive wins in which it has outscored the Cardinals and Tigers 30-4 while committing only one error, never trailing at any point in 45 consecutive innings, and holding opposing hitters to a .181 batting average. Its starting pitchers in this run are 5-0 with a 1.64 ERA while allowing only six walks in 33 innings. It doesn’t get any more traditional than that.

      Luck has nothing to do with this…the reality is your Philies poop the bed and shart the sheets more often than not… thats why you lose…

  2. Clayton Unruh

    October 25, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Seems like they get lucky every year!

  3. morandini

    October 25, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Healthy players for most of the season, a dash of luck, and a hint of clutchitutde?
    Sounds like the 2008 Phillies.

  4. Mary Pat

    October 25, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Seriously, how many lucky bounces and flukey things have gone their way? It’s voodoo, I tells ya!

  5. Ken Bland

    October 25, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    lol, lotsa bitchin about the Giants. And it won’t stop. A lot more good fundamental baseball than not, and laugh as you will, but the chemistry factor seems a real plus. Lincecum goes to the pen in the spirit of the team, and embraces it. Wonder what reaction Pence would have gotten from his Philly mates had he pierced his eyes in their eyes. Jealous? Hell, no. Respectul? Guilty as charged, your honor. And quite so, I might add. The public’s worst nightmare in progress. A team that plays as a team with fundamentals not lost on them. Had it been the Reds, Giants, Cards, Braves or Phils representing the League in the Fall Classic, it’d have been worthy representation. And I got zero problem with the one it is. Lucky, underskilled, take your pick. My ass is my response to anyone who takes a negative view toward their product.

  6. Jeff Dowder

    October 25, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Lucky in 2010, and lucky again in 2012…it sure seems like a lot of luck. It can’t be team chemistry, because there’s no such thing. Amazing stat: Marco Scutaro has swung at 89 pitches this postseason. He’s swung and missed only two times!

  7. Ryan H

    October 25, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Not to mention that the phils went to back to back ws a few years ago. And the phils also won game 1 against a favorite from the AL in their second go around as well. The phils still have way more talent on their roster (right now) than the giants. The best team doesnt always win. Thats whats fun about the playoffs. The giants have already beat a few teams better than them this year.

    Lets stop with the crying over vogelsong. Dudes been a borderline big leaguer his whole life. He will return to earth soon. Hes a fluke. Just like cody ross was two years ago

    • Pat Gallen

      October 25, 2012 at 5:59 pm

      I’ll take a flukey guy like that every year if it means winning a title.

  8. The Original Chuck P

    October 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    It’s no coincidence – Bruce Bochy deserves a ton of credit… you lose your closer, you lose your ace to ineptitude, you catch a bad break when your batting champ candidate gets nabbed for taking PED’s and yet you don’t let your team fall victim to excuses – you manage the balls off of your team and get them into the postseason healthy and confident. I’m not saying that they’re better than us but they sure are a confident and underrated bunch. Belt, Scutaro, Crawford, Pagan, Pence, Blanco, Sandoval, Posey… that’s an underwhelming bunch. Besides Sandoval and Posey, I’m not sure how many of those players would start on a majority of most other teams but they are playing to win every at bat right now and their pitching has been awesome… they’re a good team. Say what you want about Vogelsong – the guy got his “last shot” and hasn’t looked back. As the stakes have gotten higher, he’s pitched better… this is his second “fluke” season. How many more before we recognize that he’s pretty good?

    Game two is an absolute must win for Detroit – Bumgarner vs. Fister. Bumgarner has been dreadful in the postseason… which means he’s due for a big game. Should be interesting but if the Tigers don’t win, it’s over… if they go 0-2 against the back end of the Giants rotation with their top two on the hill, they won’t be able to come back from the deflating feeling that they gave away two games that they were heavily favored to win.

  9. bacardipr

    October 25, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    The Phils did have some luck Morandini. However they also had a potent offense, never say quit attitude, that special little swag and magic going on. One of the better closers and setup guys at the time. A great infield with Utley/Rollins still in their prime Feliz was no slouch at the hot corner and had a knack for coming up big with RISP. Werth and Victorino came into their own. A young Ace in Cole Hollywood Hamels. A overall while not spectacular solid bullpen. So you see it was more talent, right players at the right time and just small sprinkle of luck.

  10. Ryne Duren

    October 25, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    jealous? no! it is what it is.

  11. Lefty

    October 25, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    I’m jealous of their manager Bruce Bochy, and fully echo The OCP’s comment above. He’s the reason for- if I may borrow from Ken Bland- “The public’s worst nightmare in progress. A team that plays as a team with fundamentals not lost on them.”

    There comes a point where you have to throw the numbers out the window, and acknowledge that sometimes a team just has that “refuse to lose” attitude, and they scrap and fight until they beat you. Charlie is a nice guy, a players manager, but he’s no Bruce Bochy.

    That doesn’t guarantee the Giants a World Championship, there’s another very good team on the field competing with them, but the Giants are still a damn impressive team win or lose.

  12. George

    October 26, 2012 at 12:19 am

    Maybe some people are beginning to realize that the Giants have been very underated in the past few years. Some of those “underwhelming” players, as OCP called them, are actually quite good.

    All teams try to play “fundamental baseball” but not very many have the talent to pull it off.

  13. 機械式腕時計

    October 26, 2012 at 7:31 am

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  14. Brooks

    October 26, 2012 at 8:27 am

    I really dislike the post season when the teams show up are not the same we’ve seen throughout the year. My point is that the Tigers have a terrific offense and its non-existent so far.
    Reminds me of how badly the Phils shut down in 2010 and 2011 – putrid.
    I still like the Tigers but once again, it is the kiss of death that I chose them to win.
    (For all you who support BO, I donated to the RR campaign, kiss of death)

    • EricL

      October 26, 2012 at 12:34 pm

      To be fair, the Tigers weren’t that great overall in the regular season. They happened to play in the worst division in their league, and even then only barely snuck past the White Sox in the last week of the season. Two non-playoff teams actually had more wins in tougher divisions, but didn’t make the playoffs (Tampa & Anaheim).

      And their offense is, I think, overrated. They were 11th in baseball in runs scored, behind teams like Boston, Arizona, Washington, Milwaukee, and Chicago (AL).

      • schmenkman

        October 26, 2012 at 1:37 pm

        Their underlying stats were better — they had the 3rd highest wRC+ in the AL (to avoid comparing DH and non-DH teams), behind New York and Anaheim.

        But you’re right — in the end they were only 6th out 14 in runs scored.

        The AL average was 4.45 runs per game. Detroit scored 4.48.

      • schmenkman

        October 26, 2012 at 1:42 pm

        to put it another way:
        – the Phillies scored 1 more run than their league’s average, 684 vs. 683
        – the Tigers scored 5 more runs than their league’s average, 726 vs. 721 (higher due to the DH)

      • EricL

        October 26, 2012 at 2:52 pm

        Sometimes I don’t mind comparing AL with NL teams because if you’re being outscored by an NL team that sends a pitcher to the plate once every nine batters LOL @ you guys. But I typically will correct for league comparing NL to AL teams.

        Either way, they sounded more dominant on paper than they turned out to be.

      • EricL

        October 26, 2012 at 2:55 pm

        “…SOUNDED more dominant on PAPER…”

        Hrm, that’s terrible. Proofreading – I could use some.

        Maybe if you wrote their lineup in one of those talking Hallmark cards it would make sense. Anyway, y’all get the point.

  15. John Sánchez

    October 26, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Well, you kinda have to get into the playoffs for starters!

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