Hot Stove: Sunday Brunch – Phillies Nation

Hot Stove: Sunday Brunch

It would take an unprecedented haul to acquire Stanton. The Phillies are asking but are not likely to be a good match.

In on Stanton? Probably just “tire kicking”

Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe wrote today that the Phillies are among a pool of teams, including the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, and Orioles, who have called the Marlins about Giancarlo Stanton. I’m not sure there has ever been such a remarkably talented player at Stanton’s age to possibly be on the block ever. With that said, it would take such an unprecedented haul to acquire Stanton right now that I’m not sure any of the teams listed have the pieces to provide market value to the Fish. I definitely see this as a “due diligence” move, particularly when the Cubs, who have one of the least-deep systems in baseball, have started kicking the tires. Cafardo also wrote that the Red Sox are getting deeper in negotiations with Nick Swisher, a potential Phillies target.

A Madson Return to Philly Unlikely

Jim Salisbury of Comcast SportsNet tweeted today that “it doesn’t look like” Ryan Madson will rejoin the Phils but that things are “getting hot” with Madson and the Angels. Madson has been looking for an opportunity to close but may have to settle for a set-up man role to rebuild his value.

Upton to decide this week

Mark Tompkin of the Tampa Bay Times reported that B.J. Upton will make a decision this week, noting that Upton is now also at the top of the Braves’ free-agent wishlist. Hang on tight for this one – this one will set the dominoes falling.

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  1. Bob in Bucks

    November 25, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Stanton would truly be the missing piece. Worley and the top 4 prospects. Not sure that would do it. He costs them $480 thousand this year. Now for next year he goes to arbitration and his numbers will be huge so I can see a trade next offseason if they want to stay cheap.

  2. hk

    November 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    If Upton signs this week, I hope it’s not with the Phils. They should not set the market.

    • EricL

      November 25, 2012 at 3:04 pm

      I’ve been steeling myself against this possibility for weeks. I like to think I’m a little prepared for my disappointment in their setting the market by overpaying for a guy who’s going to cost them their first round pick and get too many years at too high an annual salary. Although signing Bourn would be, IMO, worse than signing Upton, so at least there will be a bit of a silver lining if it ends up being Upton.

      • hk

        November 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm

        You would think – or at least hope – that RAJ would learn from his experience with Raul Ibanez. When he signed Raul, there were other bad fielding corner OF types available, but RAJ had to rush in and set the market, overpaying by 1 year and an extra 15% of AAV as compared to what the likes of Adam Dunn got. The CF options are similar enough that years, dollars and draft pick compensation should put him in position to wait and see who falls in his lap.

      • George

        November 25, 2012 at 4:06 pm

        Unfortunately, the demand for all of those “good” CF options is high enough that they’ll all probably be overpaid, although it’s quite likely that with the Braves also in the mix for Upton, he may be the most overpaid of the lot.

        I’m of the opinion that Bourn will not get what he wants, due mostly to his age. Of course, that’s just opinion, and Scott Boras usually manages to defy any reasonable person’s logic. Upton would definitely be the better choice.

        I’m quite certain that Amaro has talked to all CF candidates, and has a pretty good idea of the chances of signing them and how much they’ll cost. If he really wants Upton, I can’t really care much. It’s not my money.

      • hk

        November 25, 2012 at 6:03 pm


        I’m not so sure that the demand > the supply in the CF market. Most of the biggest spending teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Angels, Dodgers) already have a CF. I think a patient GM will be able to get a good deal (relative to what the impatient GM’s pay) on one of them.

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 9:31 am


        The demand might not be high with some big market clubs, but most the CFoptions are not going to command $100 million contracts and will possibly end up being overpaid even if only by a small amount.

        There are actually a number of teams kicking around CF options. Atlanta, San Fran, Washington (a team that doesn’t worry too much about cost), and some others could use CF upgrades. Cincy is also looking for a decent leadoff bat and could install one of these candidates in their outfield. With three division rivals (Atl, Phi, Wa.) looking for outfileders, at least three of the candidates will most likely get too much.

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 9:52 am


        I don’t see Cincy as much of a player in the free agent market as they seem to be looking at Billy Hamilton as their CF of the future. Washington is the wild card as they have to decide whether to make Harper a full-time CF or not. If they enter the fray, Hamilton, Bourn, Upton, Pagan and Victorino gain that much more leverage. However, if Washington stays out or if one of the teams trades for a CF, it looks like the CF market may be like a game of musical chairs at the end with more players than chairs / suitors. If that is the case, some team may get a Victorino or a Pagan at a team friendly price as opposed to overpaying. While I prefer Upton on the field to Victorino, I prefer Victorino at something like $20M/2 than Upton at $75M/5 plus a loss of a draft choice. Good things should come to those who wait.

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 2:23 pm


        I’ve waited my entire life for those good things to happen, and I’m still waiting! Sometimes I think you just have to make the leap, parachute or not.

        Cincy may not be heavily into the CF market, but might be a surprise entry should they decide Hamilton needs more time. Even without them, there’s still, in my opinion, enough competition to bump up pay for anyone who can man CF, particularly if he can lead off a lineup or play really good defense. It’s not always a matter of how many, but when division rivals are competing, things can get pretty crazy, and the loser might wind up with a dog. Even if he’s a cheap dog, would he be worth it?

    • Ken Bland

      November 25, 2012 at 3:10 pm

      One of the great quotes in baseball history, which the lapse of time forces me to moderately paraphrase comes from Doug Melvin.

      Sayeth he, “The only expensive free agents are the ones that sign early.”

      He might not have said only. But on principle,and recollection, that’s so true

      • George

        November 25, 2012 at 4:16 pm

        To me, the only REALLY expensive free agents are the ones who blow out arms or become such bad players that they can’t be gotten rid of. Ryan Madson cost Cincy $11 million, and he never even threw a pitch for them. He also didn’t sign early. Carl Pavano did pretty much nothing for the team that signed him. We all know about Adam Eaton, but how many remember that Geoff Jenkins had to be released? He, too was making millions.

        Maybe some of the early signees have been overpaid, but many of them at least produce a bit.

  3. rc

    November 25, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    So Pagan, Victorino or trade for Span or another CF? I think the Phils like Bourn but he’s probably going to set the market after Upton signs (with Braves if reports are right). I don’t think the Phils have a lot of interest in Hamilton right now and he’s probably better in left anyway.

    • EricL

      November 25, 2012 at 3:05 pm

      Yeah, I’d be happy with any of those options (provided Span doesn’t cost and arm and a leg).

  4. Ken Bland

    November 25, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I have to laugh at the thought that Madson would go to the Angels to do anything but close. I frabkly don’t care what the depth charts show immediately after he wuld sign. Oh, it’s possible that Fieri continues to grow, possible that Walden matures to match the hardness of his hard stuff. But so many bullpens are reconstructed over the course of a year. I’d say the chances are quite viable he winds up being the closer at some point. Now what he does with that shot, I don’t know, but the Halos had 22 blown saves last year. Dat’s a lot. I believe it’d be a terrific location for Madson. It was a joke that they missed the playoffs this year. It ain’t happening 2 years in a row.

  5. Ken Bland

    November 25, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Fine job that MLB Network does covering the sport on the whole, they just ran plays of the year, and the King of the Hill really surprised me.

    Raul’s 2nd homer in that brought ’em back from the dead twice game copped top honor.

    Kinda reminds me of MVP versus Best Player arguements of historic tradition. Not in any way to downgrade the great achievement, but I don’t see the handicap of facing a righty and driving one to the short right field at the New Yankee Stadium overshadows enough to earn top spot. Was it the BIGGEST play of the year? It’s up there. Maybe even Most Impressive Night of the Year. I’d kinda lean toward one iof Trout’s defensive gems, or one of these infield acrobatic plays type deals ymyself. Hell, Howard’s himer off the lefty in the late season game at Citi might even rank as more of an upset than Raul’s shot, and Chase’s first AB agaubst MLB pitching leaving the park might warrant some thought, at least. Cool to see Raul get some recognition on a truly great night, but Play of the Year? Not the right title.

  6. Ken Bland

    November 25, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    All the options dicussed today have avoided a guy discussed earlier on the blog. Here’s a tweet from Troy Renck, Denver Post baseball columnist.


    “If Braves get Upton should help clarify/intensify market for Fowler. Phils, Nats might emerge but Rox asking price will be very high”

    But that high price seeming true is an example of why the Phils are more apt to trade. Unless a guy like Stnton is the subject. Then you overtrade and worry about it later. But not for other candidates.

    • Lefty

      November 25, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      As down as I am on a hefty Upton signing, meeting a high asking price for Fowler would be even worse.

  7. Double Trouble Del

    November 25, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Two sources indicate that the Braves are the favorites to sign Upton. I never thought I would say this but Victorino on a cheap two year deal might be the best option at this point. Fowler wouldn’t be a good fit in this town. I did see that the Royals might make rookie CF candidate Wil Meyers (formerly untouchable) available for front of the line starting pitching. Hmmm.

    • hk

      November 25, 2012 at 8:58 pm

      The Royals will want cheap front line starting pitching for Myers like the Rays have to offer, not expensive front line starting pitching like Cliff Lee.

      • Double Trouble Del

        November 25, 2012 at 9:53 pm

        I agree wholeheartedly but is Myers worth a proven number 1 or 2 starter, or in the Phil’s case a no.3? Do you think the Rays are giving up Price or Shields for him? It’s really Reuben’s job to identify a potential match-up of players that could land him here. I’m not saying that Worley or Kendrick gets it done but the door is open now it’s time to explore the options.

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 9:54 am


        I don’t think the Rays will give up Price for Myers and I don’t think KC wants Shields. I would not be surprised to see the Royals get someone like Jeremy Hellickson in a deal for Myers.

    • Ken Bland

      November 25, 2012 at 9:48 pm

      Specially since you didn’t identify the sources, it’s silly to react to their handicapping, but it’s also possible that leaning just gets 11th hour bidding going. Ruben’s a grown man and gets the negotiating game better than me, but my biggest concern on an Upton ATL deal would be to stay poised and just pursue the next option. Some good choices are available in multiple positions of need, but only when the last move candidate (s) are standing is any haste needed.
      Besdies, no matter who’s acquired, it don’t make no differencer what we all think, it’s the guys execution on the field that will matter, and 1 or 2 moved players will be a lot better than most expect. 1 or 2 will disappoint also.

  8. psujoe

    November 25, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Just hope RAJ has his offer in years and $ per year and doesn’t get in a bidding war, which the Braves rarely do. 4/$52.

    • Lefty

      November 25, 2012 at 10:19 pm

      Everything I’m reading tells me he’ll get more than 13 and more than 4. 5/75 – or 6/90 – He might even get Jason Werth’s deal. Maybe we should have just kept Werth.

  9. Jeff of Nova

    November 26, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Gotta tell ya, I am actually looking for the Phillies to sign Upton. I know he has not had the best numbers as far as avg and OPS, but he is a 5 tool talent, it would be like getting a younger Werth.

    He may need a change of scenary, in CBP he should have elevated power numbers… exactly what the Phillies need, a right handed power bat, who can play CF or 3B. The plus with Upton is his speed and fielding… think that is overlooked.

    As far as money and contracts, really I don’t care how much the under or over pay at this point, it is not my money, but they should be able to outbid the Braves.

    I just do not see teams dealing some of their stars in CF or 3B for what we have. I would love Stanton, but not sure we have enough.

    I really want to see what they do with the bullpen, 1-2 veteran signings would be nice.. reliable guys not ones coming back from bad years or injuries.

    So I may be in the minority, but I would love a Rollins, Upton, Utley, Howard lineup.

    • schmenkman

      November 26, 2012 at 9:05 am

      If they overpay, they are not getting good value for the money, and it leaves less money for other needs.

      As for his power, CBP isn’t much better than the Trop for right-handed hitters, but his home runs will likely increase no matter where he plays as he continues to mature.

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 9:48 am

        I think we all know that overpays leave less money for other needs. Sometimes, though, it almost has to be done, particularly when two or more teams are pursuing the same player. Reports say there are three looking seriously at Upton, and two of those will likely go after the second best option, forcing HIS price up. The third best option, though cheaper, might not make much impact. It’s all a risk; pay too much, wait and pay less for an aging former star, or trade a few highly rated prospects for one supposedly decent player.

        I also don’t believe the Phils have all that many other needs and a moderate overpay won’t damage the budget to the point where they can’t sign a reliever, too. An upgrade at 3rd base would be nice, but there aren’t any real options there, anyway.

      • schmenkman

        November 26, 2012 at 10:00 am

        George, I was just reacting to “I don’t care how much the under or over pay at this point, it is not my money”. Point being that regardless of whose money it is, the budget is not unlimited and any overpay will mean that much less money available for a reliever, third baseman, other outfielder, etc.

  10. Jeff of Nova

    November 26, 2012 at 9:28 am

    I agree with your first part, but I have to say that there is a reason that RAJ is in that position and we are not. He has managed to make this work, no we haven’t had another championship, but neither has 26 other teams in the league, outside of the injury riddled last season, He has kept us at the top of the league.

    We definitely need younger talent, that is why I am not really for Hamilton or Bourn. Bourn is not a good fit for our lineup.

    Whether we want to admit it here, and may don’t, we will have Chase for this year, and Howard for a while. I personally think if we sign Upton and put Ruf in Left. That might be enough to push us forward. There are a lot of ifs that is for sure. We will need to rely on our starting pitchers again. They need to be healthy.

    • hk

      November 26, 2012 at 10:01 am


      When RAJ took over, the franchise had a World Champion roster with many players in their primes and signed to club friendly deals through 2010 and beyond and one of the top five minor league systems in baseball. He also had a $98M payroll and a blank checkbook while the rest of MLB was holding the line on costs, in large part because of the economic situation of the day…the championship coincided with the banking crisis and the bursting of the real estate bubble. In the three years after the title, he increased the Phils payroll by nearly 67% while the other 29 MLB teams raised their payrolls by an average of < 3%. Now, the team is older, their payroll is bloated and their system is in the bottom 1/3 of MLB. What exactly has RAJ managed to make work?

      • Ken Bland

        November 26, 2012 at 10:32 am

        Probably a mistake to enthusiastically conclude in strong one sided fashion on the merits and perils of Ruben Amaro, Jr.

        Just a couple points. Payroll escalation is factual, can’t disagree with the raw concept, but it did coincide with growing attendance, and maybe even other sources of increased revenues. Some money well spent, some not. But I don’t know that he irresponsibly tried to blow through the budget line. That’d warrant some criticism.

        The championship club turned over. It’s not like the leftovers from the Gillick term kept on keepin’ on. He got Oswalt and Pedro, not like all his deals have been overpays, or too much time. Even on the often perceived too lengthy deals, it wasn’t like Ibanez and Polanco did nothing. Had a good feel for when to say good bye to Feliz, Burrell.

        One thing about the farm system, stated to be in the bottom third. Maybe it’s not as fruitful as at other times, but they’ve added a couple guys in the past year, one from the Rays, and the guy from Baltimore (Jeffries?), both who have good reps (let’s assume the praise is valid). Things don’t change overnight. They do a good job, and improve the farm system, Ruben should get some credit, and that would already be in progress. Can’t overstate the bad moves as if they are permanent. Things change with each move, and there’s nothing wrong with re-evaluating views on the guy.

        Pretty much like the guy myself. Pretty much.

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 11:21 am


        I agree that I was too one-sided in my comment as I think RAJ has made some good trades in his tenure and that he had a good past 12 months (starting just after the Papelbon signing). However, looking at how the team is positioned 4 years into his tenure, I believe that there are many GM’s who could have done just as well or better if they had taken over this franchise when RAJ did.

  11. Ryne Duren

    November 26, 2012 at 11:17 am

    i agree ken you made all good points. a lot of people complain about rube. sometimes i do also but i gotta say he’s a far cry better than what we had for most of the teams history. building a winner and keeping them on top is one of the hardest things to do in sports. i’m thankfull that the teams isn’t cheap! that they’ll spent money to get what they need. and they’re doing that to keep the team competitive! for us. and a lot of people worry or complain about AAV’s why? it’s not our money? in some ways we pay with higher ticket prices yea but on the whole no it isn’t our money. if they want to spend to win then let em spend. just spend wisely so we don’t have to complain. lol

    • hk

      November 26, 2012 at 11:28 am

      I also appreciate that the front office spends. However, when I complain about overpaying (in $ and/or years), it’s not because they are spending my money – they’re not – it’s because by overpaying one player, they may have to go cheap on another (assuming they have a budget). Obviously, this is all speculation, but it is quite possible that the 2nd year on Moyer’s contract led to them trading Lee to Seattle, that the 3rd year on Ibanez’s contract is what prevented them from extending Werth during the 2010 season and/or that overpaying Howard and Papelbon is the reason that they filled the roster with the likes of Wigginton, Pierre and Nix instead of Wllingham or even Beltran last season.

      • Ryne Duren

        November 26, 2012 at 11:45 am

        yea i hear ya buddy. but i disagree on a couple of your points 1 moyer i don’t know about that leading to lee being traded but i could be wrong. 2 i definately don’t think raul’s contract had anything to do with them signing worth! i think they knew that werth wasn’t worth the money he wanted. personally i didn’t like werth his stats looked good as did rollins at the end ot the year. but ask yourself how many times did those two achieve those stats in short bursts of hot hitting then go on a dry spell for a month and a half. i wanted some consistancy and probably the brass did too. now they resigned rollins cause his position is a premium one but an outfielder is easier to replace than a gold glove SS. i think that’s what prompted them to not sign werth.
        3 beltran? now there’s one i wouldn’t have done either. with his age and history of injury no! but how do you know if a guys gonna come back and do what he did this year. i can understand why they didn’t sign him. lastley i agree with you on willingham i would have went after him bigtime over the likes of wiggy and nix. i do think that rube was centered on a one year fix do to howards injury. but i could be wrong about that. hell hk i could be wrong about all i just mentioned! lol what the hell do i know!

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 12:14 pm

        I pretty much have to go along with Ryne Duren here.

        Some of the offseason moves for 2012 were based on short term needs (fill-ins for Howard). Wiggy has always primarily been an infielder.

        The Phils, starting 2012, also had two assumed-to-be-good outfielders in Victorino and Pence, and were figuring on a better performance by Mayberry. They really had no need for an outfielder like Willingham or Beltran, but DID need backups such as Nix and Pierre. Overpays had little to do with team needs at the time, and it’s certainly not Amaro’s fault that Mayberry was a dud, Vic had a lousy year, Pence didn’t live up to his 2011 stats, and Nix got injured. It also wasn’t an overpay that caused Ryan Howard’s achilles to blow out, forcing the moves he did make for 2012.

        I also would never assume that Lee was traded because of any Moyer contract, or that Werth would have been re-signed had it not been for Ibanez. Werth was likely going to be too expensive no matter what. He was waiting for free agency, and may not have signed a reasonable extension, anyway.

    • Ryne Duren

      November 26, 2012 at 11:29 am

      look at howards contract. then look at pulhols and then fielders. which one is better right now? my opinion. howards! pulhols is way to long, fielder? he produced big this year but i gotta tell ya with his size he’s a serious leg or knee injury away from that being a really bad contract. howard on the other hand could bounce back if healthy this year and his contract won’t look so bad. and after this year he’ll have only 3 yrs left on the contract and at it’s AAV he’ll be very tradable too. who would trade for pulhols? and if fielders legs go. who for him?
      howard has had his big injury. hopefully it won’t happen again and he’ll be 100%. if the phils can sign upton or trade for stanton and utley and howard are healthy and close to being near their prime years numbers and ruf works out. whew i don’t know about you guys but that would be a pretty formadable lineup! we could afford to have fransden at third and wait for asche to arrive. and realistically thats not a whole lot of moves. it could happen. thoughts?

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 1:06 pm

        Detroit signed Fielder for his age 28 to age 36 seasons for $23.8M per season. The Phils signed Howard for his age 32 to age 36 seasons for $25M per season. Therefore, in both deals, the teams get their big sluggers for their age 32 to age 36 seasons. However, Detroit also gets Fielder for his age 28 to 31 seasons and is paying less per year in AAV. Factor in salary inflation, that Fielder is much better than Howard and that Fielder has missed only 1 game in the past 4 seasons while Howard is already injury prone and there’s really no comparison here, Fielder’s contract is significantly better than Howard’s.

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 2:08 pm


        Fielder’s contract looks better at this point, but is might not look so hot in a couple more years.

        Niether you nor Ryne should be comparing contracts until all the dominoes have fallen.

        I’ll also point out that the Phils already had had Howard for HIS 28-32 years, and paid significantly less for them than Fielder is getting for his.

      • Don M

        November 26, 2012 at 2:46 pm

        Why does getting injured make someone “Injury prone” ?

        In his full seasons in the majors, Howard has played: 159, 144, 162, 160, 143, and 152 … before playing only 71 last year.

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 2:53 pm


        Of course we Ryne and I can and should compare contracts (and other decisions) before all of the dominoes have fallen. We should not be limited to just results-based analysis.

        The fact that the Phils got excess value out of Howard during his age 28-31 years does not make his contract extension a good one. Further, Amaro gets no credit for the excess value that the team got out of Howard for those seasons, so that is irrelevant to a discussion of how well or poorly Amaro has done as GM.

      • Chuck A.

        November 26, 2012 at 4:36 pm

        Remember, Don….according to most Phillies fans Howard is “injury prone” because he sucks.

      • hk

        November 26, 2012 at 6:25 pm

        Don M,

        Maybe injury prone was too strong, but remember that Howard played hurt at the end of the 2010 season and was hurt for most of the 2011 season before getting injured in his last AB of that season. The point that I was trying to make was in response to others mentioning injury risk when comparing Fielder to Howard, despite the fact that Fielder played in 485 out of 486 games in the 3 seasons prior to signing his deal while Howard missed 29 games and played hurt in many others during the 2 seasons prior to his extension.

      • Lefty

        November 26, 2012 at 7:48 pm

        Oh come on Don, you know there’s a difference between how many games a guy plays and how many he plays at full strength. While I appreciate guys like Howard that gut it out, you can’t count games played and imply full health.

      • George

        November 26, 2012 at 8:45 pm

        Until all the dominoes have fallen, you maybe can compare the contracts, but you can’t compare them with any accuracy. It’s the end results that count, and if Fielder bombs in a couple of years and Howard come back strong, you may very well be proven wrong.

        If you aren’t basing the values of two players on results, what the hell are you basing them on? The money part is only important based on what you’re getting for it, and there’s no way in blazes you can know that right now, when one deal runs for another four years and the other another seven.

        If I somehow implied that the Howard extension was a good move, that wasn’t my intent. I was merely attempting to show that in my opinion, Fielder’s contract IS NOT “significantly better.” Either of the two could turn out to be the proverbial albatross. Howard was never injured until 2010, and then only for a short time. Fielder may run into the injury wall as much or more so than Howard when he reaches a similar age.

        The fact that the Phils got Howard’s most productive years on the cheap only shows, at least to me, that perhaps Detroit is the one that is overpaying. $23.8M for eight years is still a lot more than $25M for five years. I also don’t think Fielder is all that much better. He’s mostly only younger, and Howard at the same age put up better numbers.

      • schmenkman

        November 26, 2012 at 9:59 pm

        Well, to be fair, the Phillies were fortunate to get Howard’s most productive years on the cheap because he didn’t become a regular until he was already in his prime, while Fielder’s countdown to free agency started when he was much younger.

  12. Ken Bland

    November 26, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    “if the phils can sign upton or trade for stanton and utley and howard are healthy and close to being near their prime years numbers and ruf works out. whew i don’t know about you guys but that would be a pretty formadable lineup!”

    That’s it for tonight from Disneyland. Once again, the Phils beat the Giants, 22-0, and the post game show is next. For Larry Anderson and Jim Jackson, I’m Peter Pan on the Phils radio network. Stay tuned for the post game.

    That’s what ya call IF PLUS!

  13. Jeff of Nova

    November 26, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Ken love your IF Plus

    There are many on here that think that it is a done deal that Howard is finished and Utley will be as well.

    Not saying they are or are not, but last year there was a hope that they cast of utilities guys were going to hold the fort down and the pitching staff could make it work till they come back. There was a lot of hope and no one expected the Nationals who were supposed to be a year away to do what they did. Doc went down(not expected) Worley went down as well.

    I actually commend RAJ for not going out and spending on guys that would hamper them financially.

    Take a look at it this way RAJ did the following:

    brought in the following
    Lee 2x
    Oswalt for year and half
    Pence for a year
    resigned Hamels
    let Vic and Pence go and got something in return
    resigned Howard, only time will tell on that one not starting off great, but injuries happen.
    didn’t resign Werth to a crazy contract
    signed Papelbon
    Danys Baez… trainwreck, but not killing
    Golson for Mayberry Jr. pretty good deal if you see that Golson has done nothing.
    Ibanez – he was solid over the 3 years, would take his production over Dom Brown’s.
    he basically replaced Burrell with another Burrell.

    traded the following prospects
    Travis D’Arnaud
    Michael Taylor
    Kyle Drabek
    Jonathan Singleton
    Jarred Cosart
    Jason Knapp-not even in baseball
    Lou Marsen
    Carlos Carrasco
    Jason Donald

    Brought in these prospects
    Tyson Gilles- still has potential in CF
    Phillippe Aumont may end up being a setup man, has some electric stuff.
    JC Ramirez
    Tommy Joseph catcher of the future?
    Seth Rosin
    Ethan Martin

    The Phillies were said to be pretty stocked in their Farm when RAJ took over, my question is of those guys how many are panning out as predicted?

    None really yet. Drabek may be a bullpen guy eventually. Taylor got Brett Wallace for the Blue Jays, but the Phillies were not getting him. Singleton may pan out at 1st but not in Philly anyway. Carrasco is a mess, Knapp the big part of that deal is done. Lou Marsen and Jason Donald are bench players at best.

    Overall no RAJ hasnt brought a championship, it takes some guts and savvy to make some of the deals he has, bringing in Lee was one of them. Halladay deal was a great one. He doesn’t control injuries, he can not swing the bat for them, he can only manage the payrole and bring in talent so far I happy with most of his decisions.

    I think he will bring in Upton and a bullpen help and stay under the luxory tax.. I will be happy with that. a year ago we were not sure how he was going to stay under the luxory tax and have a competitive team on the field. Many were willing to blow that tax up to sign Vic long term as it sits he may comeback cheap for a 2-3 year deal and have someone like Upton as well.

    I know many do not agree but I think he has done well and I have faith that he put the Phillies in position to win.

    Sorry my post is kinda all over the place… the kids are going crazy LOL

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