2012 Winter Meetings – Day 2 Recap – Phillies Nation
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2012 Winter Meetings – Day 2 Recap


Could the Vanimal be packaged in a trade for an outfielder? Jim Salisbury says the Phillies are dangling Worley in potential trades.

Rox Have Interest in Vanimal, Salisbury Confirms is “Trade Chip”

In a piece that may have gotten overlooked during the overnight, Troy Renck of the Denver Post reported that the Rockies do, in fact, have interest in Vance Worley. In a separate Tweet, Renck wrote that the Rockies would have to be “overwhelmed” to deal Dexter Fowler, who has two more years of team control remaining.

Jim Salisbury of CSN reported mid-day yesterday that the Phillies are dangling Worley, 2012 top prospect Trevor May, and Tyler Cloyd to try to obtain an outfielder. Some of the targets Salisbury mentioned include Fowler, Michael Cuddyer, Minnesota’s Josh Willingham and Ben Revere, and Toronto’s Rajai Davis.

Analysis: Call me crazy, but if the Phils are looking for a one year rental, I would execute a Cloyd-for-Davis swap as an insurance policy for center field. Davis, 32, has a career line of .270/.317/.370, has 223 steals, is 78% efficient on the base paths, and is only due $2.5 million in 2013. Davis has not played much center field since 2011 but generally takes good routes to the ball and makes up for defensive misplays with his speed in getting to the ball.

I would avoid Cuddyer at all costs: he’s due $10.5 million in each of the next two years and hit only .260/.341/.489 in Coors despite being a career .271/.341/.454 hitter. Willingham hit .260/.366/.524 with a career high 35 HR in Minnesota last year and is only due $7 million in 2013 and 2014; in agreement with Salisbury that he is the preferred target but his cost in prospects would fall in between that of Davis and Fowler. Not sure how much I’d give up.

Lee-for-Upton? Amaro strikes it down.

Yesterday afternoon, Pedro Gomez of ESPN tweeted that the Phillies had begun to discuss a trade that had the base of Cliff Lee and cash for Justin Upton. Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports was the first to strike this rumor down, followed by Nick Piercoro of AZ Central, who called the rumor “off base“. Last but certainly not least, Ruben Amaro himself struck down the rumor last night. That’s not a Hot Stove rumor – that’s a The Stove is on Fire rumor. The response here at Phillies Nation was so strong that it crashed our servers. Thankfully, we’re back and ready to talk more baseball.

Phils, M’s in on Bourn

As we reported yesterday, the Phillies and Mariners are now both “in” on Michael Bourn.

Victorino Strikes it Rich with Red Sox

Former Phillies center fielder Shane Victorino signed with the Red Sox yesterday for three years, ~$39 million. Keith Law of ESPN has already named the deal one of the worst contracts signed this off-season. Most of Law’s argument comes from the fact that he views Victorino as a platoon player because of his splits that favor him hitting from the right side. Victorino got his mega-deal despite hitting career worsts .255/.321/.383 last season.

Utley Ready for 2013

Jayson Stark Tweeted last night that Chase Utley‘s agent, Joel Wolfe, “described Utley as a man on a mission this winter“, stating: “If the season started in 2 weeks, he’d be ready to go.”

Click to comment


  1. Chuck A.

    December 5, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Utley’s a “man on a mission” this winter ?? So what about last winter and the winter before that? Glad he taking it seriously this off-season but I’ll reserve final judgement until I actually see him on the field on opening day.

    • Ken Bland

      December 5, 2012 at 9:33 am

      I’m a little less hesitant than Chuck to read the man on a mission comment with caution. Good respectable points by Chuck, but I find myself fired up by it. I know a lot of folks have gone through the Utley is done drill, but I still haven’t ruled out another season at least pretty similar to his headed for the Hall or close type days. But the fact is he’s getting to an age where at that position, it’s tough to go plural on how many year (singular by design) he can do that. Man, he was something to watch a few years ago. Here’s hope to another shot.

      I wish Vic well in Boston. Good spot to extend his career resume. I guess they followed suit on the Napoli thinking by condensing dollars in a shorter term. Law’s opinion isn’t off base, but it’s not impossible Vic shakes it up. It’s so hard to determine the difference between decline and an off year quite often. If my back’s to the wall, I’d go with decline, but I hope he does well.

      • Ryne Duren

        December 5, 2012 at 11:44 am

        hey ken. i read today on mlbtr that the red sox are willing to part with ellisbury! i’d trade a couple of our pithing prospects for him over fowler! he’s only 29 and the injury he had is healed (should separation i think) i mean this guy isn’t real expensive either! the only drawback would be he’s only under control this season and is arbitration elligable next year, and (gulp) his agent is boras! the other possibility is willingham from minnisota. the names of worley cloyd, may have cropped up. i’d mix brown and KK in ther if we could get both of those guys . then go out and sign a pitcher. there’s still some decent ones out there. we have 3-4 guys coming up that are starters, and they are better than the names mentioned above. what do you think?

      • RatBastardNJ

        December 5, 2012 at 12:03 pm

        I also heard that Boston is now making Ellsbury available since they signed Vic. I love this guy despite his injury issues. I don’t think it will be easy as a few prospects though as it might have to be another Cliff Lee discussion.

      • Ken Bland

        December 5, 2012 at 9:54 pm

        @Ryne Duren

        I’m not anxious to see Cliff leave, and that’s the level of player Boston would want for Ellsbury. Brown just hasn’t done enough to keep his stock price up, and if you tried tio sll Kyle Kendrick as a replacement for an exciting player like Ellsbury, it’d be free agency and injuries be damned, we’re gonna make the Boston Tea Party look soft.

    • George

      December 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm


      What makes you think Utley wasn’t taking it seriously last offseason? Just because his exercise program didn’t work doesn’t mean he wasn’t giving it his best. Sometimes it takes a different program or several different programs before you find the one that actually can keep you going.

  2. Chuck A.

    December 5, 2012 at 9:52 am

    If Utley can be in the lineup at the beginning of the season and play 140ish games then I will be encouraged. If he’s at 80% of his “headed for the HOF days” then that’s great.

    I agree that Vic might be a good fit in Boston. While he pissed me off at times, especially this past season, I have nothing but respect and appreciation for him and what he did for this team and this city.

    Worley for Fowler – Do it!

    • Ryne Duren

      December 5, 2012 at 11:49 am

      chuck i’d settle for a .280 season with 20-25 HR’s and 75- 80 rbi. that aint too shabby for a second baseman. if we can score on a RH power bat.(willingham) and a center fielder ( ellisbury) the sox are willing to listen to offers. and if howard can just jit 250-260 with 30-35 &100 i’m good with that! cause if ruf can do some bashing we’ll be in good shape to contend.

  3. Dave P

    December 5, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Worley is cheap and a good pitcher. I would think the Phillies would want to hold onto a player like that with all of the giant contracts around.

    I’ll be a little sad to see the vanimal go, fun guy to see pitch.

  4. George

    December 5, 2012 at 10:43 am

    If Worley gets traded, I just wonder who they fill up the rotation with, especially if Cloyd gets traded, too. Even if Cloyd isn’t traded, Cloyd doesn’t strike me as a really good option.

    I don’t see too much wrong with Bourn (although I don’t think he’s all that great, either) if he’s not outrageously expensive. Giving up a draft pick isn’t nearly as bad as giving up a pitcher like Worley and/or a prospect who’s already shown upside for a center fielder. I also think the Phils need more than a stopgap in center, because Gillies so far can’t seem to play more than a few dozen games between injuries.

  5. Ken Bland

    December 5, 2012 at 10:55 am

    This is a step ahead of real life, and not necessarily in a right way, but if they do find themselves enticed into moving Worley to improve an OF or 3B slot, I wonder if a guy on track to set the record for most 7 figure contracts signed as a free agent might enter the Phils thinking. Edwin Jackson has pitched everywhere but Philadelphia, and while you’d think he’d be anxious to nail a multi-year deal, maybe he’s the bridge to 2014. Just because a guy wants more than a year doesn’t mean he’s gonna get it.

    I doubt Ruben’s changed in his feeling about the importance of pitching. For that reason, I believe the Phils would be slow to move Worley. But if they do, Sanchez at 4 years in the 12
    per range looks quite expensive compared to 1 year of Edwin Jackson.

  6. Don M

    December 5, 2012 at 11:48 am

    I don’t think that Worley alone would be enough to get Fowler…

    I posted yesterday a Mayberry Jr, Worley, May – for- Dexter Fowler and ? prosect/player to be named . . . Who would say no first? …

    Ian Riccaboni thought it would be the Phillies to say No to that deal . . . but they wont have a need for Mayberry, they’ll need to include Worley, ….. and I don’t think that alone can get a deal done. I don’t know that May’s trade value or prospect status is as high as it was two years ago.. so I wonder how other teams really view him.

    I would love to know what the Twins wanted for Denard Span? Assuming they asked for Jesse Biddle (our only Top 100 prospect according to MLB.com)… ….and if we didn’t matchup with Span, would we be able to make a deal for Willingham (or is the salary relief the Twins would receive the incentive for them to trade Willingham?)

    • Ryne Duren

      December 5, 2012 at 11:56 am

      yea Don i read that the twins want pitching . cheap under control pitching that’s decent! worley for willingham? in a heartbeat! i’d trade a pitcher who plays every fourth or fifth day for an everyday power guy. specially a guy like worley. i’m a big vanimal fan too but i’d have to do that! we got 3 starters in the minors that are real close! pettibone is at the top of that list . and if we can swing that we can go after ellisbury. he’s available now.

  7. Don M

    December 5, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Part of my thinking in getting Kevin Youkilis for the Phillies was that even if it took a 2-year deal, it would be something like 2 years/ $12-15M …

    I’ve read a few places now that Youkilis “could get” $9 M per season?? That seems high to me

    • Ryne Duren

      December 5, 2012 at 12:00 pm

      i’m not in on youk. if we can score on the guys i mention earlier then i’d leave 3rd to fransden. save a spot for asche. but if we did we’d have to sign a starter for the 4th spot. and if they traded both worley and kendrik def. sign a pitcher and have the minor guys fight for the fifth spot. gotta get younger too!

  8. Ryne Duren

    December 5, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    i wasn’t that enthused about the center field crop that was on the market. i’m glad rube waited. i’m excited about the developements the last day with other teams signing guys, which opened the doors for some other peices we could use. rube just has to say screw it and do it and get a couple of bats for whatever combo of players we could trade. sign a key pitcher and utilize our good crop of pitching prospects to bolster our team through trade and bring up some to replace the ones we trade. we just have to deal with the growing pains with these guy. the relief guys got better in the second half! when they brought vanimal up he did pretty good! held his own. and we have 3 guys almost readt with better stuff than him waiting in the wings.

  9. TheDipsy

    December 5, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    I don’t know what CFer the Phils are gonna wind up with but what I will say that I was astonished to learn that Paul Hagen was elected to the Hall of Fame. Hagen was a guy I always regarded as unremarkable and I honestly don’t recall him ever telling me something I didn’t already know or offer opinion I thought was unique or thought-provoking. What Hagen’s selection does do is just go farher in proving the old prove the axiom that 80% of success is just showing up.

    The Dipsy

  10. TheDipsy

    December 5, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    * go further in proving the old axiom that 80% of success is just showing up.

    The Dipsy

    • Ryne Duren

      December 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

      Dipsy that got me laughing cause you’re so right man!

      • George

        December 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm

        Whoever coined that axiom was an idiot. It should be obvious to anyone that showing up isn’t what brings success, it’s the ability to know the right butts to kiss.

  11. Chuck A.

    December 5, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    George – For the past two years Utley has not been ready to start the season. After the first time in 2011 you sort of give the guy a pass. But it happened again last season and his condition was worse this time. It took him longer to start the season.

    And….. I believe he withheld from the Phillies how he was really feeling (maybe THINKING to himself he could start the season). The Phils were kind of caught off-guard. I don’t think Valdez would ever have been traded if they would have known that Utley was gonna start the season on the DL.

    That’s on Chase. He needed to be forthcoming and he wasn’t. So, hopefully, he’s on top of his regimen this time and COMMUNICATES REGULARLY with the Phillies as to his progress.

    • schmenkman

      December 5, 2012 at 3:50 pm

      Chuck, none of us really know, but that’s not how I see what happened this spring.

      First, he missed only 16 of the 116 games after in 2011, and 8 of those were due to a concussion. Over last winter, he worked on the right knee that bothered him earlier in the year. It seems that his left knee felt fine all winter. He’s been playing with pain of one degree of another for the past several years (like many players do). I wouldn’t be surprised (and can’t really blame him), if he felt less than perfect but nevertheless felt it wasn’t anything that he couldn’t play through as he had in the past.

      In any case, it only started bothering him to the point that he couldn’t play when he ramped up baseball activities in spring training.

      I’m glad that he’s being monitored more closely this off-season, but at the same time I don’t see any indications of intentional deceit, either.

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