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Phillies All-Time Team: Second Base

It’s up to you to tell us who should be part of the Phillies All-Time team. During the winter, we’ll unveil one position at a time for you to vote on. After all the votes are tallied, and all the position filled, we’ll release the results. Make your vote count!

Below are the top choice and their totals as a member of the Phillies. WAR is used from Baseball-Reference.

  • Tony Taylor (15 seasons, 1x All-star): .261 avg., .673 OPS, 75 HR, 598 RBI, 20 WAR
  • Juan Samuel (7 seasons, 2x All-star): .263 avg., .749 OPS, 100 HR, 413 RBI, 10.7 WAR
  • Mickey Morandini (9 seasons, 1x All-Star): .267 avg., .694 OPS, 20 HR, 254 RBI, 5.7 WAR
  • Chase Utley (10 seasons, 5x All-Star): .288 avg., .876 OPS, 199 HR, 739 RBI, 53.5 WAR

Who we’re voting for:

-Amanda Orr: How can you vote against anyone who Harry Kalas called “the man”? During his prime, he was the best second baseman in the league. He could always hit and he improved his defense as years went on. His scrappy play and hustle made him an instant fan favorite.

-Don M.: The first time I heard about Chase Utley he was still in the minors, and the comment was “He can definitely hit, but there are questions about his glove.” The year was 2002; the remark was from my dad as Utley was finishing a AAA-season spent at 3B in which he committed 28 errors in 123 games. Utley was moved back to 2B, his game continued to improve, and for the past decade he’s been the best player in the Phillies organization

-Jay Floyd: With an OPS that is over 200 points better than the next best option at this position (Tony Taylor, who spent plenty of time at other positions and coached with the team as well, sported a .668 OPS in 15 seasons with the Phils), Chase Utley is by far the greatest second baseman in team history.

-Corey Seidman: For me it’s a tie between Marlon Anderson and Felipe Crespo. Most would go with Chase Utley, but I just don’t think Utley’s .301/.388/.535 five-year peak was better than what Anderson or Crespo contributed to the 2001-02 Phillies.

-Pat Gallen: It’s pretty obvious who we all have to vote for, even if Corey is a smart ass. Chase Utley is one of the greatest Phillies in team history, and is, of course, the man.

Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.
45 Comments

45 Comments

  1. Ken Bland

    February 7, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Considering that I always held Juan Samuel in higher esteem than his numbers reflected (that’s called massive potential), it about says it all within my mind that Chase is not quite, but close to twice the player Sammy was. I wonder if Chase’s injuries the last couple years have buried memories like this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjoyK5_Ae48

    • Ken Bland

      February 7, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      The best part of that video is best compared to te way football players react to scoring a touchdown. A guy like Adrian Peterson scores, he acts like he’s been in the end zone before. The passion of a spike plus is entertaining for sure, but by it’s frequency, the guys who act like it’s their first time in the end zone just seem over the top with the act, entertaining as it is.

      When Chase stands up, when he greets his teammates, there’s an air of this is normal stuff.
      A Hall of Fame berth would only amplify what he’s been. What he’s been, like Mike Schmidt just doesn’t come down the pike too often.

  2. Tinman5

    February 7, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Utley is clearly the best Second Baseman in Phillies History. His fielding is good and the his Hitting is above any other. I would have to put Manny Trillo on the list, even though he only played here for 4 years. He hit .277 during that time and had a lot of key hits. He was the best fielding Second Baseman I ever saw (Galvis has a chance to be better) and the strongest arm in the history of the position. It was a delight to see him catch a ball, look at it and then whip it over to Pete Rose in a blur.

  3. donnavox20

    February 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Love seeing what I think supported by stats!

  4. George

    February 7, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    If Utley’s career ended right now, he’s still be best, and would continue to be for quite a while. In his ten years, he’s been way more dominant a player than any of the others.

    So far, he’s been the only one I’ve voted for; with the other positions it was either too little time with the Phils or they weren’t all that spectacular for an extended time.

  5. Chuck A.

    February 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Is this even a serious vote? …

  6. Manny

    February 7, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    I’m with Corey.

  7. Lefty

    February 7, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    All right, time to confess- Who voted for Morandini? Come on, admit it.

    • schmenkman

      February 8, 2013 at 8:11 am

      Some people must be answering a different question — i.e. who’s your favorite.

  8. Andrew from Waldorf

    February 7, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Utley before his body gave out was the best.

    Not much of a contest.

    I remember 4 years ago thinking he might end up as the greatest 2nd baseman ever. For any team.

    That didnt happen and now he isnt even going to Cooperstown.
    He is the best of a mediocre group though.

    Juan Samuel was one of my favorite players as a kid though. Was vastly under rated.

  9. Bruce

    February 8, 2013 at 2:14 am

    Obviously, longevity and being consistently good enables Utley to compile very impressive stats. So i have to vote for him. However, personally he is not my all time favorite 2nd baseman. As an oldster here, I have seen Tony Taylor and Manny Trillo played and were outstanding players for the Phillies. Juan Samuel was an exciting player too before the pitchers figured him out and found a hole in his swing (couldn’t lay off low outside breaking pitches). Morandini was a steady reliable player who played to the best of his limited ability.

    My favorite over the years?.. He with the catchy slogan..”Yes we can!”..Dave Cash. Offensively and defensively, he was an All-Star. He played with the Phillies from 1974 to 1976, Three FULL seasons as a true everyday player, missing only two games during that period. He made the All-Star team each year, and batted .300 or better with over 200 hits in both 1974 and 1975. Defensively, he led in putouts, assists and doubleplays each year. I loved this player for his contribution on and off the field (one of the inspirational leaders on the team). I only wish he stay with team for additional years and who knows.. Utley would have serious competition in the fan voting here. 🙂

    • schmenkman

      February 8, 2013 at 7:21 am

      “longevity and being consistently good” — and being one of the two or three best players in baseball over the last decade.

      http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2003&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    • hk

      February 8, 2013 at 7:43 am

      Cash was great for 2 of his 3 seasons here and his acquisition was the first step in turning around the culture of losing from the early 70’s. He should have been mentioned in the article and I do think there’s a strong case for him to be the runner-up as the team’s all-time 2B. His 13 fWAR in 3 seasons here far outpaces the other options (excluding Utley) on the basis of fWAR per season and beats Samuel’s production in 7 seasons and Morandini’s in 9.

    • Ken Bland

      February 8, 2013 at 11:32 am

      That’s a good job, Bruce, mentioning Cash. It’s not like he’s a real candidate for the all time 2B because of lack of time in a Phillie uniform, let alone Utley’s presence, but he deserves mention within the subject. Now if the subject was most important 2B, as opposed to all-time, then he inspires at least some degree of debate, consolation that it is. Manny Trillo is deserving of a mention as well, another short termer who provided some valuble impact.

  10. Brooks

    February 8, 2013 at 5:00 am

    I suppose if the question were asked in a broader sense:
    “In your lifetime – name the best 2nd baseman you have ever had the pleasure to root for”
    You would probably receive a similar response. I have been a baseball fan for over 50 years, first following the AL as a kid (60’s through the late 70’s) then the NL. No doubt in my mind, over that span and across both leagues Chase Utley rises to the top of my list as the best second baseman I have ever had the pleasure of cheering for.

  11. Brooks

    February 8, 2013 at 5:08 am

    Just for the record – my second all time favorite is Roberto Alomar

    • Andrew from Waldorf

      February 8, 2013 at 5:12 pm

      “did you spit in this?”

      Chet from Weird Science

      Hope you (Brooks) are keeping warm this winter with the help of a few adult beverages.

      Less than 2 months to the season. Going to be a fun one Brooksie.

      You come in expecting 62-100 and anything better thatn that is just a nice suprise.

      • Brooks

        February 8, 2013 at 9:16 pm

        You are right AFW – low expectations will hardly ever disappoint but, I can’t bring myself to do it. I’m shooting for 90(+) wins this year and a playoff spot.

  12. Tom Richards III

    February 8, 2013 at 7:57 am

    I actually saw Tony Taylor play the game and would consider him 2nd to Ut. Local guy who played the game like Chase does: hard and relentless. There is no doubt Chase is the choice on this one.

  13. betasigmadeltashag

    February 8, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Since I started following the Phillies in the early 70’s, but not really following stats all that much. I happy that some of you have should me stats of my second favorite player of my youth behind Larry Bowa, and that was Dave Cash, I would say he was my favorite phillies second basemen until Chase came along. By a purly numbers stats it is obvious Chase is by far the best, and what he brought to this organization over the last decade is unquestionably head and shoulders above any second basemen in my life time. And I truly feel that if he can get 3 more years out of his knees with similar numbers to last years if extended over a full season he has an outside shot at HOF.
    But if you are asking favorite second basemen you can get many more answers.
    Again one thing I like about these post is that I got to see that for 3 years Dave Cash was not just my favorite by was a top tier second basmen. Because I Randy Learch was my favoite Phillies Pitcher, and I am pretty sure his numbers are not that great.

    • Chuck A.

      February 8, 2013 at 11:19 am

      There is no way Chase has any shot at the HOF with only 3 more years to accumulate stats.

      • schmenkman

        February 8, 2013 at 11:51 am

        I tend to agree, but I don’t think it’s so obvious. It would require that 8+ years from now, when he becomes eligible, advanced stats including WAR are considered more than they are today. I think it’s clear that they will be, the question is how much. And how much will they be considered say 15 years from now, if he hasn’t fallen below the 5% minimum by then, as old-guard voters die off and are replaced by more stat-savvy younger ones?

        Under the specific scenario beta laid out (2012 stats extended over a full season), he would be at about 70 WAR after 2015. Now that’s probably too optimistic, but if he hangs on even part time for a couple more years, 70 is definitely within reach.

        There are 18 second basemen in the Hall of Fame, and 70 WAR would rank 6th out of those 18. Even today, his current WAR of 53.8 ranks 11th out of the 18 HoF second basemen.

        Here are the second basemen NOT in the Hall with the highest rWAR:
        71.4 Whitaker
        67.3 Grich
        63.0 Randolph
        62.1 Biggio
        53.3 Utley
        51.9 Kent

      • schmenkman

        February 8, 2013 at 11:53 am

        (and Utley had a higher 8-year peak than anyone on that list)

      • Chuck A.

        February 8, 2013 at 12:13 pm

        I agree that advanced stats will play more of a role in the voting, especially WAR. But I also think that the traditional ones such as batting average, HR, RBI hits, etc. will still play a major role. And I just can’t see Utley getting there.

        The only one on your list that has a shot…in my opinion is Biggio…and he has 3060 hits compared to Utley’s 1275 right now. They have similiar averages and OBP and one could argue that Ut could match or better his HR and RBI totals.

        I think Chase would have to really rack up the stats over the next 5-6 years, get to somewhere around 2200 or more hits, and at least match Biggio’s HR and RBI totals of 291 and 1175 (Utley has 199 and 739). And that’s with keeping up with his average and OBP.

        It’s certainly doable and, again, I do think that more advanced will and probably should play a significant role in the decision-making, but I seriously have my doubts. It’s definitely not happening in the next 3 years, however.

        And that begs a totally different question…. how will his knees actually hold up for 3 to 6 more years?? He’d almost have to play first base or be a DH in the AL to really extend that career.

      • Lefty

        February 8, 2013 at 12:55 pm

        Schmenkman good point. I think the key to getting in is that he will have 15 years, and by then I would hope the makeup of the BBWAA will have changed enough that there will be fewer compilers getting in, and more great players.

      • Chuck A.

        February 8, 2013 at 1:27 pm

        The BBWAA will still look at compilers, though. I just think that’s the culture of the HOF and it’s requirements for election. I can’t see it changing that much in 15 years to make much of a difference. Maybe I’m wrong but I just can’t see it.

      • schmenkman

        February 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm

        In a way, Utley’s chances are inversely proportional to Rollins’. As long as voters put a lot of stock in counting stats, Rollins has a chance (if he stays productive for a few years), and Utley probably doesn’t. If they put less emphasis on counting stats, Rollins almost certainly doesn’t get in, but Utley might have a chance. I wrote a piece on Rollins’ chances last week at another site.

      • Lefty

        February 8, 2013 at 2:29 pm

        Chuck, you may be right. I like to think that the way the sport is viewed is evolving, the question is whether or not the voters will.

      • Chuck A.

        February 8, 2013 at 3:08 pm

        schmenk, that’s an excellent point concerning Rollins. I’ve been thinking that, with a few more good seasons to pad his stats, he might have a decent shot at the Hall. Certainly his MVP season doesn’t hurt him either. I’d be interested to read your piece.

      • schmenkman

        February 8, 2013 at 3:15 pm

        I won’t link it, but it’s called Jimmy Rollins and the Hall of Fame if you google.

    • Ken Bland

      February 8, 2013 at 11:35 am

      Any particular reason you liked Cash more than Trillo?

  14. Lefty

    February 8, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    In an all time deal like this, with only one winner, it can only be Chase Utley.

    Dave Cash and Manny Trillo were both deserving of the mention they didn’t get.

    Now – if you want to rank them, we could do that. (and argue about it) Here’s mine-
    1 Utley
    2 Cash
    3 Samuel
    4 Trillo
    5 Taylor

    I had a tough time with number 3 and 4- I could be persuaded to switch them.

    • hk

      February 8, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      I agree with 1, 2 and 5. For me, Trillo and Samuel are close – Trillo was the better defender while Sammy was the more dynamic offensive player – that I would put Trillo ahead of Samuel solely on the basis of Trillo’s contributions to one of the team’s two World Series titles.

      • Lefty

        February 8, 2013 at 8:49 pm

        hk, Consider me duly persuaded! Trillo was SO big in the 1980 Houston NLCS especially against Nolan Ryan in game 5.

  15. davehist

    February 8, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Obviously Utley should be #1. But I agree with several others that Manny Trillo ranks well above Samuel, Taylor & Morandini.
    For a while I thought Chase would be able to put up Hall of Fame numbers, but just too many injuries have blighted that idea.

  16. betasigmadeltashag

    February 8, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    When I said 3 years I meant three more years of elite second basemen, but I would assume that he would hang on o few more after that to compile numbers. I do follow all the numbers some on here do but they consistenly keep saying that he ranks first or second in second basemen during his career. And who knows maybe he stays healthy this year, hits 35 HR bats .330 and has 110 RBIs, with a OBS of .800 wins and though I really think it is a created stat for the simple reason to create a stat is a 9 WAR and adds an MVP to his collection of numbers that would help his HOF status.

    (there is some sarcasim in there just so you all know)

    • schmenkman

      February 9, 2013 at 8:24 am

      I don’t see him getting close to those numbers this year (except .800 OPS), but his 2012 2012 numbers extended to a full season would have made him an elite second baseman (one of the 2-3 best in the game).

      • schmenkman

        February 9, 2013 at 8:26 am

        (forgot about the last comment — if that was sarcasm, then never mind)

  17. James

    February 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Trillo was the best defensive second baseman the Phillies ever had. His relays were as good as any second baseman who played the game. 1980 would not have happened without Manny Trillo.

  18. Bob in Bucks

    February 9, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Is this real? There is no question. Like who is the third basemen?

  19. Phillies fan

    February 9, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    What about Nap Lajoie (HOF), Joe Morgan (HOF), Manny Trillo, Tony Taylor,

    • Ken Bland

      February 9, 2013 at 9:38 pm

      Lajoie’s an interesting mention.It’s a little hard to take him seriously as a candidate to me. Baseball 50, 70 years ago still seems comparable, but 110 seems pushing it.

      He hit .426 once, but his OBP was “only” .463. Hornsby’s .424, best modern day batting average was attached to a BA of .507.

      http://didthetribewinlastnight.com/2013/02/07/strange-twist-brought-lajoie-to-cleveland-and-all-time-team/

    • schmenkman

      February 9, 2013 at 9:57 pm

      This article is about what they did with the Phillies.

      Lajoie: Ken’s right, baseball was very different then, but comparing each one to their peers, Lajoie and Utley were comparable hitters relative to the league (132 wRC+ for Lajoie, 129 for Utley). Based on the available stats he was only average fielder, and he only had 492 games with the Phillies.

      Morgan: only 1 year with Phils

      Trillo: only 501 games with Phillies, great fielder but below average hitter

      Taylor: long tenure with Phils, but a below average hitter and (again, based on available stats), not a great fielder.

      Bob nailed it.

  20. Ken Bland

    February 9, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    People think Hall voting is a mess these days, maybe has been for a while. Certainly a case for it, and how it could be different in attempt to make it “better.”

    But check out another era, and tell me this isn’t BIG TIME screwed up.

    Rogers Hornsby

    24 years, career BA .358 included consecutive years of .370, .397, .401, .384, .424, .403 . 2 of those years with 42 and 39 homers. That’s headline stuff, even if it’s just headlines.

    Got elected to the Hall on 182 out of 233 ballots. So 51 guys opted not to vote for him. WEIRD.

  21. Donna C.

    February 13, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Even if enough HOF voters don’t accept the newer stats, I think there’s a chance)I realize I’m being optimistic, but I love Chase) he may get in if enough voters consider that his playing time was shortened by injury , and he was the best player at his position for several years.

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