Phillies All Time Team 2013

Phillies All-Time Team: Third Base

Photo: nndb.com

It’s up to you to tell us who should be part of the Phillies All-Time team. During the winter, we’ll unveil one position at a time for you to vote on. After all the votes are tallied, and all the position filled, we’ll release the results. Make your vote count!

  • Willie “Puddin’ Head” Jones (13 seasons, 2x All-Star): .258 avg., .756 OPS, 190 HR, 812 RBI, 21.1 WAR
  • Dick Allen (9 seasons, 1964 ROY, 3x All-Star): .290 avg, .902 OPS, 204 HR, 655 RBI, 34 WAR
  • Mike Schmidt (17+ seasons, 2x MVP, 1x WS Champ, 12x All-Star, 10x Gold Glove): .267 avg, .908 OPS, 548 HR, 1,595 RBI, 103 WAR
  • Scott Rolen (7 seasons, 1x All-Star, 4x Gold Glove): .282 avg., .877 OPS, 150 HR, 559 RBI, 28.1 WAR

Who we’re voting for:

-Pat Gallen: Dick Allen and Puddin’ Head were way ahead of my time, and I’m sure they were nice players. Scott Rolen actually had the chance at being the next Mike Schmidt in Philly – if he hadn’t been a baby and run himself out of town, which is what he wanted anyway. It’s of course Mike Schmidt, who could also be the best third baseman in MLB history.

-Ian Riccaboni: When I was a kid, Scott Rolen was the player I wanted to be. He had power, killer instincts at third base, and got big hits. Looking at his stats, I was surprised to realize that Rolen actually played more games in Philadelphia than anywhere else, finishing with Phillie numbers 150 HR, 71 SB, .282/.373/.504. All of this is to say he’s my runner up to my vote of Mike Schmidt in this vote.

-Ryan Dinger: I can only vaguely remember Mike Schmidt as a member of the Phillies (he retired when I was just three years old), but, like every Phillies fan, I know his reputation. With 548 career home runs, a .908 career OPS, three MVP awards, a World Series ring and multiple Gold Gloves to his name, Schmidt is not only the greatest Phillies third basemen ever, he’s the greatest third basemen, period. End of story.

-Jon Nisula: Thinking about the best third basemen in Phillies history is like thinking of the best wide receiver in 49ers history. It’s easy. Mike Schmidt.

Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.
67 Comments

67 Comments

  1. George

    February 10, 2013 at 8:38 am

    It’s silly to even have to vote on this one. Add all the rest together and you still don’t get Mike Schmidt. And I saw all except “Puddin’ Head” in action.

    • Ryne Duren

      February 12, 2013 at 9:54 am

      same here george. saw em all cept jones. my dad who’s 83 saw jones and he says jones couldn’t hold schmitty’s jock.lol although he said he holds a place in his heart for jones cause of the whiz kids. i thing allen if he had played his whole career with the phils might have given him a run. but schmidts overall game was way better and consistant. if you remember george when allen came up , just like schmidt every time he came to the place he created a buzz. there are few players that do that. only three phils batter wise come to mind with that. allen, schmidt, and howard. rolen was flashy and very good at thired. schmidt was smooth and almost effortless and i don’t remember him diving for many balls. his range was outstanding. rolens range was very good but he dove alot. allen was horrible at third. so in my mind schmidt was the superior third basemen. hands down!

      • Ryne Duren

        February 12, 2013 at 9:56 am

        sorry george, but i left luzinski off the buzz list!

  2. JMills

    February 10, 2013 at 9:17 am

    I started following the Phillies in 1974 just as Schmidt exploded with 36hr and 116rbi. He quickly became my favorite player and I was able to enjoy his entire career. Scott Rolen came along and he quickly became my favorite player. How disappointed it was when he forced the Phillies to trade him. I feel really blessed to have watched the best third baseman of all time, thank you Michael Jack Schmidt.

  3. Nelson Schroeder

    February 10, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Growing up in Philliy during the 70’s every kid wanted to be either Mike Schmidt, Greg Luzinski, Larry Bowa, or Steve Carlton. They were the players that captured our imagination. Without a doubt Mike Schmidt is not only the best third baseman in Phillies history but in MLB history. Not only did he own the position with his instincts and skill but as he was the type of person who modeled what a professional athlete could and should be. Hands down it’s Mike Schmidt.

  4. Lefty

    February 10, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Offensively and defensively, Schmidt is simply the greatest third baseman in Major League Baseball history. I don’t think there are many historians that would question it.

    It’s also interesting that when looking at many of the “greatest Major League third baseman lists” that Scott Rolen is usually in the top 15 or so as well. A hundred + years and a lot of great third baseman- and 2 Phils are in the top 15. I agree that it’s too bad his whole career couldn’t have played out here.

    Maybe we can find another great one some day, but I doubt we’ll ever see the likes of Michael Jack.

    • Ken Bland

      February 10, 2013 at 2:58 pm

      “Schmidt is simply the greatest third baseman in Major League Baseball history. I don’t think there are many historians that would question it.”

      I’m not looking to make this topic controversial, but I did some skipping around to see just how unanimous it is about Schmidt being the best ever. I ran across 1 website, baseballstatistics.com that the poster voiced the opinion that Brooks Robinson, Clete Boyer and Pie Traynor were the best 3 defensive 3rd basemen of all time. It’s a LONG time ago that I saw Brooks and the younger Boyer play, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that’s nuts. Boyer was indeed real good, and Brooks’s rep is well supported, and well deserved..

      Then I ran across this other site where the author does admit that this is based on slash line in the headline, but if you wanted to use that as a focal point, you could present a case for Chipper being the best, and this might surprise, pretty dominantly so.

      I guess it speaks to you can say a lot of different things with statse ven though it’s thought of by many (at least generally) as the foundation of opinion.

      Anyway, I feel like Schmidt is the best ever, but the field contains some real good players, and I think use of measures like by far and away, and easily are at least a little stretchy, to coin a phrase. I look at guys like Chipper and George Brett, and think how do you be easily better than them and that seems proper.

      http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/03/for-slash-line-at-least-chipper-jones-ranks-tops-for-third-basemen/

      • schmenkman

        February 10, 2013 at 3:38 pm

        Ken, I don’t see how the first paragraph in any way contradicts what Lefty said. In other words, I don’t think he meant the best offensively AND the best defensively, but rather, overall, or all-around the best, considering both offense and defense.

      • Ken Bland

        February 10, 2013 at 3:44 pm

        I left off the words before, …which would look like this.

        Offensively and defensively, Schmidt is simply the greatest third baseman in Major League Baseball history.

        It’s not a shot at Lefty. Maybe he meant overall, I chose to break it down to offensively, he was the best, defensively same.

      • Lefty

        February 10, 2013 at 7:59 pm

        Schmenkman is correct, that is exactly what I meant – and could/should have worded better. As if anything I say actually matters to anyone anyway 🙂

        In my opinion Brooks Robinson IS the best defensive 3rd baseman ever, and keep in mind that I’m not speaking as someone that saw just the famous World Series against the Reds, I live close to Baltimore. I saw the guy often on TV, with the sound turned down while simultaneously tuning into my transistor radio for the hope of hearing the faint voices of By Saam, Whitey, or Bill Campbell through the interference. Of course once Harry arrived, his booming voice cut through like some sort of soothing serene magic. (speaking of THE best)

        And yes, Chipper’s offensive numbers are indeed better, although they probably wouldn’t be if he never played the Phillies!!! Not kidding, check the splits, he did not hit any NL team better. Larry Wayne Jones didn’t retire soon enough for me, and that’s a tribute to the respect I have for his hitting ability.

        But back to the point, as a complete all around ballplayer, M.J.S. is the undisputed number 1 on this list.

      • schmenkman

        February 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm

        Schmidt was a better hitter than Larry Jones. He has the better offensive numbers when we consider, as we must, that Schmidt played in a lower-offense era.

        OPS+ 147 Schmidt, 141 Jones
        wRC+ 147 Schmidt, 141 Jones

        And obviously there is absolutely no comparison in their defensive numbers.

      • Lefty

        February 10, 2013 at 10:19 pm

        Schmidt was absolutely the better hitter. The basic difference between the them is their first and last two years. Earlier I noted that Chipper had better numbers, a more appropriate way to say it would be- they were damn close.

        http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=97&position=3B&page=8&players=1011586

      • Chuck A.

        February 11, 2013 at 7:55 am

        You guys said what I was gonna say before I read your dialogue. Defensively, I give it to Brooks, but OVERALL it’s definitely Schmidt. Lefty, that 1970 Series was unbelievable.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRQSECBxK8s

      • Lefty

        February 11, 2013 at 2:18 pm

        Chuck thanks for posting that. I was listening to Billy Ripken the other day on MLB network, and he said that what he, Cal and Cal Sr. most admired was his arm- believe it or not. That play where he ranges over the foul line is a great example of that strength.

      • Ryne Duren

        February 12, 2013 at 10:03 am

        i agree with schmenkman. he was the greatest all around third basemen. defensively yes, you could argue about who was the best. there might be some bias as to who as phils fans we think is best defensively. but i think it’s clear who is the best all around third basemen. offensively #1 defensively if not #1 then top three or four. i’ll lean #1 lol

  5. Ken Bland

    February 10, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Following up a couple when I was a kid refernces, for myself, I was introduced to a book by John Rosenberg at age 8/9 called The History of Baseball that included an all-time 9. The 3rd baseman was Pie Traynor, maybe a good choice, maybe already passed by Eddie Mathews, I never checked it, or have long since forgot. And it has been a LONG time now, 30ish years since Schmidt’s prime, so maybe the depth at the position is limited these days, but it’s a position that has since seen continued excellence. Despite that, Schmidt continues to be the pretty if not quite clear choice as the all-time best 3rd baseman. I thought Alex might be worth thinking of as the best, maybe as recently as 3-4 years ago, but even that’s pretty shot.

    Thinking of it in terms of Phillies best is so ridiculous, might as well look at it in terms of the sport and it’s history. There really isn’t much of a list to talk about, and it’s even less populated at short. Rolen and Allen are fine to mention, and that shows underappreciation for Allen, the same way Pat mentioning Willie Jones in the same sentence as Crash, but this is pretty comparable to trying to engage in conversation about the the best RF in Yankee history. With due respect to those that played there, and well. Maris, Reggie as examples.

    Like a beer vendor at the Vet used to say when Schmidt stepped to the plate.”Last call before Schmidt homers!!!!”

  6. Dr. Dave

    February 10, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Obviously, Mike Schmidt is the greatest 3bman in the history of the game.

    But when we stack up against those American League clubs, I sure would want Richie Allen as my designated hitter.

    I saw Richie play for the Williamsport Grays in 1962 and got his autograph. Instead of dots over the Is in his name, he did little circles. Prior to Reading, Williamsport was the AA franchise for the Phils. Every year, my Dad would take me to see them when the Phils came to town to play an exhibition game during the season.

    • wbramh

      February 11, 2013 at 2:20 pm

      I saw Puddin Head and Dick play.
      I have never seen anyone hit the ball harder and farther than “Richie” (back then) Allen.
      In the National League, McCovey and Stargell (and maybe Kingman) were the only players I ever saw he Allen-like homers.
      No matter the score, I never leave a game until the last out is made…except for one instance.
      It was a night game at Connie Mack and I was with three friends, one of whom whose car we drove in. The Phils were down by three runs going into the bottom of the ninth when our driver insisted we leave to get a head start on the crowd. Over my “but anything can happen” objections, I was out-voted. Our car was parked on Somerset Street right behind the bi-level left field bleachers. We turned on the car radio just in time to discover the Phils had loaded the bases with Richie Allen coming to bat.

      As we pulled out of our parking space we could hear the crowd roar as Allen hit the ball clear over the left field roof. The ball landed at or within inches of where our car windshield had been located about 3 seconds earlier and neighborhood kids scrambled to retrieve it.

      How I wished the ball would have broken the windshield – oh how I wished…

      Richie was no Mike with the glove but every at-bat was worth the price of admission.

      • Bruce

        February 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm

        I like your comment about your memorable experience with Allen in a game like no other. 🙂

      • Ryne Duren

        February 12, 2013 at 10:17 am

        yea man you got that right. chris mathews on msnbc siad that he gets a tingles up his spine over obama! well he’s from philly, he must not have seen allen come to the plate. or possibly forgot the tingles allen gave everyone. he was special to watch!
        i remember when he rejoined the phils in the mid seventies i was at a game with my wife. the dodgers were in town and doug rau was pitching for the bums, allen hit two screaming meamie line drives right over the left field wall. they were hit low and on a straight line and when they hit the tarp, i swear you could not only see the tarp give in bigtime but you could hear the loud thwop above the screaming crowd. and that was mostly because it left the field so fast the sound was heard before the crowd could even react. the left fielder didn’t even have time to turn around to see if it would hit the wall! he heard it hit the tarp and never moved. lol he only hit 12 that year i think and i was fortunate enough to see two of em. good memories huh?

      • Ken Bland

        February 12, 2013 at 11:12 am

        I sincerely hope you get to open this link and listen to the audio. It’s play by play of Crash’s first trip back to Philly to play the Phils. Enjoy!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eMAXzKITQc

  7. Louis

    February 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Pudding head gets my vote for his incredible nickname

    • wbramh

      February 11, 2013 at 2:30 pm

      Willie earned that nickname “Puddin’ Head” for a very good reason.
      But a good all-around player.
      So-so batting average but decent RBI man and good glove.
      10th, I believe, in all-time put-outs at 3rd.

  8. Bob in Bucks

    February 10, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    A few years ago MLB put together an ALL MLB All Star team and Schmidt was the all-time best 3rd baseman. Should be good enough for the Phillies.

  9. James

    February 10, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Richie Allen could have been the best third baseman with his incredible skill set but he came up at a time when Blacks were not allowed to be moody and controversial. But I remember seeing him blast some moon shots at Connie Mack stadium that would have cleared Yellowstone National Park! His defense was not in the same league with Schmidty. Schmidt is arguably the best third-baseman ever, although he too could have been even better if he handled those crazy Phillie fans without letting the pressure get him, especially those who booed him just to get his goat.

    • Ken Bland

      February 10, 2013 at 5:24 pm

      Take away the challenges Allen faced, and whatever extent he made them more challenging and say he played to his potential. It’s scary to think that Schmidt still might have been a little better, possibly even more than a little. Add that same formula to Allen never having left Philly because things were going well, and Schmidt consecutievely replacing Allen. Can you imagine what it would have been like with Schmidt’s .196 year, Allen moved to first, and Montanez traded to make room for that scenario ight around the exact time that the entertaining Montanez had hit 30 shots? Short term madness, for sure, until Schmidt met up with his 1974 year.

  10. schmenkman

    February 10, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Surprisingly, there seems to be some doubt as to whether Schmidt is widely regarded as the best third baseman of all time. I dug up some recent rankings, even some amid the lovefest of Chipper’s farewell tour.

    Out of the first 10 rankings I found, 9 had Schmidt first. One, at thebaseballpage, had Mathews first and Schmidt 2nd.

    What I thought was most telling in this search wasn’t among the ten rankings. It was an article in the Atlanta Journal Consitution in July about a Braves interleague series in Kansas City, with this title: “Chipper in George Brett’s town; who is 2nd-best 3B ever?”

    It included this: “Actually, the question is which of them ranks second and which ranks third on the list behind Mike Schmidt, the great Philadelphia Phillies slugger widely regarded as the gold standard for third basemen.”

    • schmenkman

      February 10, 2013 at 9:12 pm

      The ten rankings…

      1) Schmidt, 2) Jones, 3) Mathews – ESPN SweetSpot, 8/28/11
      1) Schmidt, 2) Robinson, 3) Brett – Yahoo Voices, 4/22/10
      1) Schmidt, 2) Brett, 3) Mathews – Ranker, current
      1) Schmidt, 2) Brett, 3) Mathews – (Detroit) examiner dot com, 11/6/12
      1) Schmidt, 2) Robinson, 3) Mathews – Fox Sports, 10/20/11
      1) Schmidt, 2) Brett, 3) Mathews – About dot com
      1) Schmidt, 2) Jones, 3) Brett – bleacher report, 10/9/12
      1) Mathews, 2) Schmidt, 3) Brett – thebaseballpage dot com
      1) Schmidt, 2) Brett, 3) Mathews – baseballstatistics dot com
      1) Schmidt (16th among all players), 2) Brett (30th), 3) Mathews (39th) – ESPN’s Hall of 100, Nov 2012

  11. Double Trouble Del

    February 10, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Is there no love for Charlie Hayes?

    • Ryne Duren

      February 12, 2013 at 10:21 am

      ah haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. good one Del. a sure clunker among pedigrees.

  12. Bruce

    February 11, 2013 at 1:25 am

    Well, it’s obvious that overall, Mike Schmidt, by his sheer offensive power numbers and multi-gold glove defensive ablility, has my vote. Although, it can be argued that Richie Allen who had just as much power as Schmidt and a consistently higher BA is the better hitter.

    It’s funny to note that at one time, Philly fans unmercifully booed Schmidt until he appeared in a fright wig and dark sunglasses on the field prior to a game that turned the fickle fans’ hatred to affection of him. (chuckles)

    I’m a little surprised that Dave Hollins who played 5 seasons (two of the seasons with 93 RBIs each) and an All-Star on a 1993 N.L. Championship team full of Rocky Balboas hero types with shaggy hairs and unkempt uniforms (smile) is not on the fan vote list.

    I do remember seeing “Puddin’ Head Jones played for the Phillies when the “Whiz Kids” were an aging ball club. Oh how I took great pleasure as a kid in seeing Willie, the Brooklyn Dodgers killer, time and time again come up with a big hit including one that drove in the winning run to helped Robin Roberts win a pitching duel over Dodgers’ Don Newcombe. Remember, the Brooklyn “Bums” had a virtual Hall of Fame lineup in those days.

    One more comment. There is no argument in my mind that in my lifetime, Hall of Famer, Brooks Robinson is the greatest defensive third-baseman I have seen played and may be in MLB history. I can never forget those mind boggling defensive plays he made at 3rd base during one World Series (voted W.S. MVP). He has won 16 consecutive Gold Glove Awards during his career. He was such a valuable player at his position for the Orioles (A.L.MVP and All-Star MVP).

    • schmenkman

      February 11, 2013 at 2:55 am

      Allen was in fact the slightly better hitter overall, even though Schmidt actually got on base more than Allen.

      Phillies careers:
      Schmidt: 2400 games, .267/.380/.527 (.395 wOBA, 147 wRC+), 548 HR, 1595 RBI
      Allen: 1070 games, .290/.371/.530 (.395 wOBA, 152 wRC+), 204 HR, 655 RBI

    • Ken Bland

      February 11, 2013 at 11:03 am

      In didn’t realize you went back quite as far as you do. Before my time, but maybe not yours was Billy Cox, said to be an outstanding defensive 3rd baseman up in Brooklyn. I dont suppose you saw him?

      Yesterday, I mentioned a couple links offering posts on ranking all time 3rd basemen, or at least in certain categories. Being as this is all water cooler banter anyway, credibility is not significant, and I haven’t come across many people who swear by the Bleacher Report, although this is just the view of 1 of their contributors. I guess the omission of Brooks Robinson from his all time defenders at 3rd is the yellow highlight, but in thinking of other terrific 3rd sackers, I was surprised Graig Nettles didn’t make the list. To me, you could include him in a discussion of best 3rd base defenders and have credibility.

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/151072-unblurring-history-10-best-defensive-third-basemen-in-history

      • Bruce

        February 11, 2013 at 2:32 pm

        I was too young to see Cox play with the Dodgers. He was traded before the 1955 season and Jackie Robinson took over 3rd base with Junior Gilliam at 2nd base. Of course, that was the year the Brooklyn “Bums” won their first World Series Championship against their hated rival, Yankees. I do remember reading a few lively stories about Cox in Roger Kahn’s classic book “The Boys of Summer”. 🙂

        Greg Nettles! Another great fielding 3rd baseman and what a clutch hitter for the Yankees. Yeah..I think he should be ranked among the top ten all time fielding 3rd basemen.

  13. George

    February 11, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Allen was a talented guy for sure. But he also played a lot of games at first base. I can’t recall when he was switched to that position, but I believe it was still as a Phil (correct me if I’m wrong) and that should figure in a bit as to who was the greatest third baseman.

    I always had mixed feelings about Allen. He was definitely misunderstood, but he also seemed at times to relish being so, and seemed to use that misunderstanding to whine a little more than he should have. I’ve always felt that he could have been even better than he was, but managed to shoot himself in the foot a lot.

    I can’t place any blame, however, because I’ll never know what he faced as a black man growing up during segregation. I’m glad to see so many fans giving praise to him now, because he got just about none when he played in Philly despite his huge talent.

    • Lefty

      February 11, 2013 at 12:39 pm

      His first five seasons Allen’s primary position was 3rd base. Then in 68 they moved him to left field. In 1969 he was primarily a first baseman, then traded, and when he came back in 75,76 first base was his position.

    • wbramh

      February 11, 2013 at 2:46 pm

      I’m sure racism played some role in the Allen-hating, but not unlike Schmidt, fans saw in Allen a casualness in playing style and outward spark that many mistook for dogging it. Power hitters like Allen and Schmidt (and Howard) also strike out a lot so they’re often heroes or goats with little room in between. Additionally, neither Allen nor Schmidt was particularly great at identifying with the fans. Both tended to be reclusive. When Schmidt did speak, I used to cringe when he would refer to himself in the 3rd person.

      • James

        February 11, 2013 at 8:09 pm

        Well said wbramh. In some ways Allen seemed to connect when he returned in the seventies but Schmidt struggled his whole career. His personality was his own worst enemy. But he is the best third baseman of all time.

  14. Ken Bland

    February 11, 2013 at 11:20 am

    “I’m glad to see so many fans giving praise to him now, because he got just about none when he played in Philly despite his huge talent.”

    I wouldn’t debate that too awfully strenuously, but I don’t remember a steady stream of Allen hatred like I’m taking from this comment. To be sure, whenever there was controversy, the masses were quick to jump on him, but it wasn’t like get him out of here 24/7.

    Small example. I went to a doubleheader when Allen was at another of his never ending peaks of controversy at Coonie Mack. Maybe he had just come off suspension, or some negative action, because for his 1st at bat appearance, he was booed mercilessly. By the time the night was over, he’d been up 8 or 9 times, hadn’t been retired, and had some outrageous night with like 2 homers and some other impressive stuff. As memory serves, each appearance at the plate was more cheering, less booing, swinging completely by the end of his last at bat when he was given a standing ovation. It was quite a night.

    • George

      February 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm

      We probably moved in different circles, but I remember almost nothing but disgust for Allen. I knew people who thought he should be thrown off any team, not just the Phils. I’d also guess that that particular doubleheader was the exception. People tend to cheer even those they don’t care for when that particular player does remarkably well. I don’t think they’d have booed early on had he been truly popular, and if he’d had a bad night, he might have been lynched. One thing that turned people off to Allen was his abilty to have a gigantic game when he needed support, and people seemed to think he should have gigantic games more often, which is, of course, asking too much.

      By the way, I do have some memory of that day you speak of, even though I wasn’t there.

    • Bruce

      February 11, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      You mentioned Connie Mack Stadium. I have always thought that stadium was more friendly to pitchers than hitters. Allen played there while Schmidt had the benefit of the Vet Stadium, a hitter’s park I thought.

      On second thought, with Allen’s prodigious power (and Schmidt), the dimensions of both stadiums really didn’t matter.

      • Bruce

        February 11, 2013 at 3:16 pm

        Here is something to ponder… If you had a choice between both players in their prime, Allen and Schmidt, with RISP and two outs. who would you choose to hit?

        The answer for me is Allen. In looking at their career stats, Allen hit .290 with RISP and 2 outs while Schmidt hit .251 in the same situation.

      • George

        February 11, 2013 at 5:20 pm

        Choosing a player only by RISP in two out situations would be silly, unless you’re talking about a pinch-hitter. For an entire game, I’d still go with Schmidt.

      • Ken Bland

        February 11, 2013 at 6:25 pm

        good grief, that’s a tough question. Super tough. Depends on who’s pitching? lol, that’d be a copout. I guess Allen. Probably be higher drama. If Bruce Kison was pitching, I figure Schmidt would have wanted to kill him. That is a tough questiobn! I guess the 40 point differencve in batting average in that situation says something, then again, maybe Schmidt’d be more inclined to draw a walk.

        Bottom line, either. Lord have mercy.

  15. Bruce

    February 11, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    George, I’m only highlighting Allen’s value (based on career performance) as a hitter by giving one example in a game situation that is no less valuable or important than Schmidt offensive power numbers accumulated over 17 years. Of course, Schmidt’s glove is what differentiate him from all the rest of the Phillies’ third baseman.

    • George

      February 12, 2013 at 9:06 am

      One situation? Big deal. Anyone can be more valuable in a given situation than another person who in most other ways is better equiped everyday. It’s the entire reason for lefty specialists and defensive replacements.

  16. Andrew from Waldorf

    February 12, 2013 at 1:45 am

    Schmidt was better than Brooks defensively.
    Brooks had a great world series. the best 6 game streak of his career in the world series.

    I am too young to have seen them both play regularily but people many people whose opinions I trust feel this way.

    Then when you add in hitting it is not close.

    He could also run the bases. Especially before the turf ate his knees up.

    Still the best Phillie of all time and starting at 3b on the all time AFW roster.

    1B Gehrig
    2B Morgan
    SS Ripken
    3B Schmidt
    OF Ruth
    OF Cobb
    OF Williams
    C Bench

    • brooks

      February 12, 2013 at 4:18 am

      Now you insult me.. I’m hurt.
      Not only did Brooks rise to the occasion for that WS, his defense for the first time playing on that dreaded Astro-turf was peerless.

      Prior to the game a reporter asked Brooks Robinson if he thought he would be able to play defense on the artificial grass. Robinson replied, “I’m a Major League third baseman. If you want to go play in a parking lot, I’m supposed to stop the ball.”

    • Lefty

      February 12, 2013 at 6:37 am

      Schmidt is the best all around third baseman of all time, but Brooks Robinson was the best defensive third baseman, period.

      That World Series put him on a national stage, it’s true, but he played like that all the time.

      The people whose opinions you trust are just wrong. Trust me on this one, I saw his “Hoover” act so many times.

      Other than that, I like your list.

      A case could be made that Musial or should be on there, but I don’t know who you’d replace. Put him at DH.

      I feel like I’m typing the way Captain Kirk talks.

      • Chuck A.

        February 12, 2013 at 7:40 am

        So did I see that Hoover act all the time. He was dubbed the “Human Vacuum Cleaner.” Unbelievable defensive third baseman.

      • Ken Bland

        February 12, 2013 at 8:27 am

        You used your I live in Baltimore act the other day to enhance credibility and went on to proclaim Harry Kalas something like the best announcer ever. This, in no way is any criticism of Harry, but your showing signs of deciding first on a 1 way path. I wouldn’t be writing this, but with a Baltimore connection, you should clearly recognize the greatness of Chuck Thompson behind the mike for both the Orioles and Colts, and realize that Harry was immensely popular both locally and nationally, but so was Chuck, as are the likes of an actual fair number of broadcasters. In a good many towns, you really can’t quibble with someone NOT agreeing with Kalas as best ever, even in towns where the announcers are just pretty good. Obviously, even though it’s still subjective, if a New Yorker liked Sterling over Kalas, that’s dimented. But if a Baltimorean said Thompson was better than Kalas, you can’t really quibble.

        Schmidt
        What I’m saying is I don’t care where you’re from. Anybody gets carried away with the degree they claim Schmidt to be the best ever offensively, or defensively moved past subjectively on the line. And while I agree with you, that he is, and I’d rate him below Brooks defensively, it’s not so blatant in either case that the other players are not even discussable, just like Schmidt defensively is at least discussable with Brooks.

      • Chuck A.

        February 12, 2013 at 10:11 am

        Chuck Thompson and Bill O’Donnell. “Ain’t the beer cold!”

      • Chuck A.

        February 12, 2013 at 10:15 am

        Also, it should be noted that Thompson actually called Phillies games on WIBG from 1946-48 along with By Saam and Claude Haring. Actually, these guys did BOTH the Phillies and the A’s. Thompson also called Temple football during this period.

        (Didn’t know that til I looked it up!)

      • Ken Bland

        February 12, 2013 at 10:53 am

        Chuck A,

        That’s shocking news that Thompson called the Phils games at that point. Saam makes sense for absolute sure. Herring could well be true. And I’m not questioining where you found that tidbit, but I find that really strange that the name Gene Kelly (father of the everpopular John Sims) didn’t show up. Seems like that was right around his time. Oh, well.

      • Lefty

        February 12, 2013 at 1:12 pm

        kb,
        What? My, I live in Baltimore act? I don’t live in Baltimore. I said I live close to Baltimore, close enough that I don’t get local Philadelphia stations, unfortunately I get Baltimore.

        And it’s not an act, I just looked out the window to be certain, it’s real. 🙂

        Chuck Thompson was very good, not in Harry’s league IMHO. The major difference, tone. Thompson’s was more cool, almost monotone. You knew when a game was intense by Harry’s tone. He eased you into a hammock with the fluidity of an evening summer breeze for a few innings, and when the appropriate time came, as the intensity grew you’d hear it- “the 3-2 pitch, swing and a long drive!” TMac thinks the whole game is played in these moments, and it’s not. Chuck Thompson thought the whole game was played in the summer breeze, and I can see why some prefer that style, not me. Harry gave us the whole range of emotions.

      • brooks

        February 13, 2013 at 4:38 am

        I listened to Chuck Thompsons “Going Going Gone…” from 1964 until I moved to this area in 1970. I loved Chuck but he was a car salesman – he definitely could host or MC any event but Harry, pure baseball. Regardless of any venue we heard Harry (I did hear him do college football once in a while), he could never take the ballpark out of his voice.
        I would take Harry Kalas over Chuck Thompson in a heart beat.

        Andrew, your starting pitchers are second to none.. but, I would consider the Rocket. And, the relievers ahhm not to thrilled about. I would have to give it some thought.

      • Brooks

        February 13, 2013 at 4:47 am

        See if I can remember this – my parents always kept a case of this snake pee in the cellar bar –
        “National Beer, National Beer, you’ll love the taste of National Beer. And while we’re singing we’re proud to say, it’s brewed on the shores of the Chesapeke Bay..”
        Hey, its been over 40 years and that jingle still rolls out.. schmokes!
        Left, I used to sit mostly in left field where my buds and I could cause trouble. Stomping on mustard packs – were not too many people around back then.. Using those popcorn holders for things otherwise intended…
        ALso loved to sit by first base – whenever Diamond Jim Gentile used to whiff at a low and outside curveball – the crowd would feign a strong breeze –

      • Lefty

        February 13, 2013 at 6:32 am

        Brooks,
        I don’t know how this thread went from greatest Phils third baseman to beer commercials, but what the heck. The real Baltimore beer, National Bohemian is the piss water they drink in my neck of the woods. “Natty Boh” as referred to on the old TV show “Homicide -Life on the Streets”is the name and the slogan was “Oh boy, What a beer”

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleEwlzuQ7Q

    • Ken Bland

      February 12, 2013 at 8:15 am

      AFDUB,

      That’s a pretty representative all time squad. Guess you left Bonds off for the roids, and it’s tough to imagine an all time team without Willie and Hank, but then again, who do you take off.

      If I were taking such a project seriously, or should I say responsibly, I might be inclined to give Charlie Gehringer a strong look at 2nd. Not that Joe’s a bad choice, mind you. I think if I’m going with starters, I might go Unit from the left, Walter Johnson from the right. Course Johnson’s a real guess since I never saw him pitch.

  17. Ken Bland

    February 12, 2013 at 10:58 am

    that’s why Casey said you could look it up. Kelly was 50-59. Nice timing. First part, anyway.

    Saam and Thompson. Nice booth, to say the least.

  18. Andrew from Waldorf

    February 12, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    @ Lefty

    Phil Wood is the person who says that Schmidt was better than Robinson. He syas its close but he does factor the turf in to the equation.

    You better rethink lol

    Its only an opinion but I value Phils #1 all time on things baseball.

    Great guy

    • Lefty

      February 12, 2013 at 12:55 pm

      I respect Phil Wood, but no need to rethink. We’re all wrong sometimes- this time, I believe he is.

  19. Andrew from Waldorf

    February 12, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    All time 11 man pitching staff ( 8 starters- 3 relievers)

    SP Walter Johnson
    SP Sandy Koufax
    SP Steve Carlton
    SP Cy Young
    SP Nolan Ryan
    SP Christy Mathewson
    SP Randy Johnson
    SP Pedro Martinez

    RP Mariano Rivera
    RP Dennis eckersley
    RP Lee Smith

    • Ken Bland

      February 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm

      Show ya how hard this all time team is, you take your roster, I’ll give you one, and we’re talking 7 games, bottom of the 15th, and still tied. I think. Lemme throw some names at ya

      1B – Gehrig I’ll take Jimme Focc
      2B – Your Morgan to my Gehringer
      SS – Cal, and I’ll take Bingo Banks
      3B – Schmidt versus Brett (even Chipper’d be okay)
      OF – You had Cobb, Babe and Ted, I’ll take Bonds, Willie and Hank
      C – Bench – talk about an all-time inarguable – it’d be easy to say Yogi,. I’m actually kinda inclined to take Piazza

      staff – (not listing yours, right above)

      starters – (not in order) Spahn, Maddux, Jim Palmer, Lefty Grove, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller,
      Seaver, Catfish

      pen – Sutter, Chad Qualls, Elroy Face

      PLAY BALL!!!!

  20. Andrew from Waldorf

    February 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Well I had first picks

    So obviously I am superior.

    I considered Sutter heavily.
    Gibson and Seaver could crack my rotation.

    Banks played more games at first base than shortstop.

    Berra is the only one in the catcher discussion with Bench. Piazza is insulting.

    Bonds is a robot or a machine I am only using human beings whose hat size didnt grow in their playing days.

    On a side note. Did I miss the all time phillies first baseman thread? ( I do not see every thread in off season)
    Or are they saving it? LOL
    And they started on second base?

    Talk about drama queens.

    I am going with Pete Rose.
    Who is my all time UTIL player. I forgot to add that in my original roster.

    500 games at 5 different positions!!!!
    Will never be matched.

    Talk about

    • Brooks

      February 13, 2013 at 4:54 am

      And we do bow to your greatness AFW..
      Yes, you missed first base and you’ll never guess who got top honors? That’s right, your all time favorite Guillermo Montanez!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top