Spring Training Gameday 2013: Phillies v. Tigers – Phillies Nation
2013 Spring Training

Spring Training Gameday 2013: Phillies v. Tigers


Detroit Tigers vs. Philadelphia Phillies

Time: 1:05 pm

Brighthouse FieldClearwater, FL

Weather: 81, Mostly Cloudly

TV: The Comcast Network, MLB Network

Follow Phillies Nation on Twitter

Cliff Lee takes the hill for the first time this Spring against the defending AL Champion Tigers. Tyler Cloyd, Michael Stutes, Phillippe Aumont, Jonathan Papelbon, and Raul Valdes are scheduled to follow Lee.

The Phillies will face Tigers’ Rule 5 pick Drew Smyly. Smyly, a fellow Arkansan, is represented by the same agent as Lee and worked with Lee in the offseason to improve his game, focusing on the cutter.


1. Betancourt- SS

2. Utley – 2B

3. M. Young- 3B

4. Howard – 1B

5. Ruf – LF

6. Ruiz – DH

7. Mayberry – RF

8. Kratz- C

9. Martinez – CF

Go Phillies!



  1. Mike in NJ

    February 25, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Can somebody…ANYBODY…tell me why Michael Martinez is still with the organization, much less getting ABs in spring training?!?

  2. Dave

    February 25, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I thought the same thing when I saw the lineup Mike. It’s embarrassingly laughable. Not to mention it’s stupid for him to be taking at bats away from legitimate guys who the organization is trying to evaluate. He shouldn’t even be in baseball.

  3. Jeff

    February 25, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Wasn’t Stutes traded?

    • John

      February 26, 2013 at 1:47 pm

      No, it was Schwimmer that was traded.

  4. Ian Riccaboni

    February 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Short answer because I’m on lunch: it’s entirely possible they are playing Martinez a lot early so they can make a decision on him quickly. It seems like working backwards but I wouldn’t doubt that that’s what they’re doing.

    • Chuck A.

      February 25, 2013 at 1:06 pm

      WHAT decision has to be made??!! Seriously.

      • Ken Bland

        February 25, 2013 at 1:38 pm

        Being as I agree on the WHAT decision, I’ll take a wild, and I mean wild guess that they are doing him a favor and giving him some exposure which will give him a better chance to hook up after he’s cut.

        It’s easy for us to make fun of the guy, and get pissed that he’s playing, but he might be a good baseball guy and wouldn’t be the first to turn a nothing career into a long tenure as a coach/manager. So they may be doing him a favor, and he may deserve it.

      • Don M

        February 25, 2013 at 2:03 pm

        Martinez is one of the few players that can play capable defense at any position on the field …… it’s a shame he can’t hit his weight though

        Oh wait.. his listed weight is 175 lbs, and his career AVG is .188 …. i stand corrected.

        But seriously, that UTILITY status is big in the majors.. especially this early in Spring Training where you’re scheduled for 9-inning games, and you surely aren’t running your regulars out there the whole time. Martinez has the opportunity to give any player a breather, and not look foolish in the field.

      • Ken Bland

        February 25, 2013 at 2:14 pm

        I don’t agree about Mini playing capable defense at numerous positions. He plays shortstop pretty decently, but from my observation, I wouldn’t use the word capable at any other position. He’s not necessarily terrible, gray word that that word might be, but I wouldn’t say he’s consistently adequate.

      • Ken Bland

        February 25, 2013 at 2:28 pm

        This really sounds like I’m pouncing on Mini, which I don’t mean to do, but as the most recent example of less than capable, from CF, he just threw a 4 hopper to the plate. Capable isn’t spectacular, but that’s one example.

        This inning should be simulcast on The Leadership Channel.

        What a snotty comment.

      • Don M

        February 25, 2013 at 2:45 pm

        I’m no defensive expert, nor am I the definitive voice on what “capable defense” means …. my point was that he can catch the call at almost any spot on the field – which is more than can be said of a lot of players… even a lot of starters on the Phillies.

  5. Joe a

    February 25, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Anyone know who the backup catcher will be until carlos comes back?

    • Ken Bland

      February 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm

      Humberto Quintero is the only candidate for that backup slot that I’ve heard.

  6. Mike in NJ

    February 25, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Jeff, that was Schwimmer (sp?) that was traded to Toronto. Speaking of which, why for a 1B prospect? Really? They could use a prospect for pretty much any other position besides 1B except maybe CF.

    You’d think if anything they’d be giving the new rule 5 kid those ABs playing CF to see if they even want to keep him.

    • Dave

      February 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm

      Yes, I don’t really get the Schwimmer trade either. I know the organization may have been unhappy with him (The Inquirer mentioned some things on Sunday) and that may have played a part in the trade, but it seems like the Phillies got the short end of the stick on that deal. Besides, Art Charles sounds more like a guy who plays in a polka band.

      • Chuck A.

        February 25, 2013 at 1:43 pm

        Maybe he’s related to Ray Charles.

  7. Ken Bland

    February 25, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    It’e interesting (if that’s the right word) that there’s more discussion about Mini playing than the fact that Chr;ie split up Utley and Howard. With Utley having missed the last couple springs, there wasn’t much chance to even try that, but I can’t remember the last time that happened. Now whether it means anything, I’d say decent chance, but I’m not sure what. MY gets the sanwich between them today, but boy, it’s hard to see him in the 3 hole on any regular basis.

  8. Mike in NJ

    February 25, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Heh I was going to comment on Utley hitting 2 until I get to the end of the lineup and my MM rage kicked in. I like the idea of Utey hitting 2nd and Young 3rd. I’m soooo sick of seeing lefty specialists late in the game pitching to Utley/Howard.

    • Ken Bland

      February 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm

      What appeals about Younbg 3 other than his righty stick? Maybe that’s enough to make you feel that way?

      • Ken Bland

        February 25, 2013 at 2:04 pm

        One of my concerns with Young hitting in the 3 hole is he represents too much chance of a GIDP.

        Here he is with 2 on, nobody out, let’s see if he avoids that here.

      • Mike in NJ

        February 25, 2013 at 4:34 pm

        Michael Young actually has a better career BA (.301) than Utley (.288), and AFAIK has the highest career BA of anyone on the current roster.

        In addition to breaking up the lefties, I like Utley hitting 2nd because he takes a lot of pitches and would give the leadoff guy more chances to steal 2nd. Plus, as a lefty pull hitter, would be far more likely to advance the runner from 2nd without having to *try* to go the other way.

        Granted, you could still use a lefty specialist and just walk Young unless the bases are loaded, but you’re playing with fire more there than just pitching to Utley/Howard back to back.

      • Ken Bland

        February 26, 2013 at 11:30 am

        That’s true on the batting average comparison between Chase and Young. For what it’s worth to you, Utley has a 30 point OBP edge, like .375 to ,345.

        What prompted my question of you wasn’t so much based on whether Utley should be moved, it’s who should hit between the two. I don’t care for Young there. I’d like more power than I think he’ll offer at this stage. I wish Ruf could exert himself, but that might be asking a good amount for now. I don’t like Brown getting pushed down in the lineup, but that’s L-L-L anyway. I wonder if Delmon Young might get a shot. Chooch isn’t a prototypical 3 guy, but given the choices, he might.

        It’s interesting that they seem to be thinking about it at least.

    • schmenkman

      February 25, 2013 at 2:05 pm

      By traditional lineup construction, you put your best hitter 3rd. However that’s not the only theory by any means. For example:

      “The Two Hole: The old-school book says to put a bat-control guy here. Not a great hitter, but someone who can move the lead-off hitter over for one of the next two hitters to drive in.

      The Books says the #2 hitter comes to bat in situations about as important as the #3 hitter, but more often. That means the #2 hitter should be better than the #3 guy, and one of the best three hitters overall. And since he bats with the bases empty more often than the hitters behind him, he should be a high-OBP player. Doesn’t sound like someone who should be sacrificing, does it?”


      “The Third Spot: The old-school book says to put your best high-average hitter here. The lead-off hitter should already be in scoring position and a hit drives him in. Wham, bam, thank you ma’am.

      The Book says the #3 hitter comes to the plate with, on average, fewer runners on base than the #4 or #5 hitters. So why focus on putting a guy who can knock in runs in the #3 spot, when the two spots after him can benefit from it more? Surprisingly, because he comes to bat so often with two outs and no runners on base, the #3 hitter isn’t nearly as important as we think. This is a spot to fill after more important spots are taken care of.”


      Now, I would be very encouraged if I thought for moment that the Phillies were trying this because they’re into novel and advanced strategies. More likely, unfortunately, is that they are under the laughable impression that Young is a better hitter than Utley. Actually the most likely is that they are trying to split Utley and Howard, as Mike and Ken have said.

      • Don M

        February 25, 2013 at 2:20 pm

        So now i’m confused though… would it go:

        Revere, Utley, Rollins?, Howard, M.Young? …… If nothing more than to not have Rollins’ speed wasted by him behind Howard on the basepaths

      • hk

        February 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm


        The problem with the lineup optimization theories is that they are all based on old data compiled during times when managers did not optimize their lineups. As soon as you start putting your top two OBP guys 1 and 2, the #3 hitter becomes that much more important than he would in scenarios where your #2 hitter was a guy whose job was to take pitches and make “productive” outs.

      • George

        February 25, 2013 at 6:33 pm

        I’m not sure that’s entirely true, Schmenkman. Part of the problem with maximization theories is that so many managers have different theories about what is maximization.

        I suspect maximization would also differ somewhat based on the talent level of any particular lineup, or the types of talent that lineup might have. If your GM has neglected the #4 spot, for instance, you may not have a decent guy to put in there, and might even be forced to move your #3 down or your #5 up. If you have no great OBP guy, you might have to do some creative thinking about the leadoff spot.

      • Steve Bosell

        February 25, 2013 at 7:05 pm

        Utley is their best #3 hitter, which is problematic because he’s also their best #2 and leadoff hitter.

      • hk

        February 26, 2013 at 6:14 am

        The best reason for batting Utley #2 is to separate him from Howard with a right-handed batter or a switch-hitter to minimize the effect that LOOGY’s can have on the line-up late in games.

      • schmenkman

        February 26, 2013 at 8:48 am

        Good points on lineup optimization.

        I agree, it’s probably just to split Utley and Howard, which may now be necessary.

        Through 2010, Utley hit at least as well vs. lefties as he did vs. righties, so it didn’t matter as much if a loogy was brought in to face Utley in addition to Howard.

        2003-10 vs. LHP: .283/.392/.502 (136 wRC+)
        2003-10 vs. RHP: .298/.375/.519 (130 wRC+)

        But for the last two years, while he has continued hitting about as well as he ever has vs. righties, he’s struggled vs. lefties:

        2011-12 vs. LHP: .202/.312/.333 (82 wRC+) in 266 PAs
        2011-12 vs. RHP: .285/.373/.471 (128 wRC+) in 550 PAs

        His BABIP in those 266 PAs is only .217. Line drive rate is about his career norm, but he has hit more grounders and fewer fly balls, so it’s probably more than a blip.

  9. George

    February 25, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Just a thought about MiniMart playing:

    It’s spring training, and players are generally working hard on all sorts of things. It’s possible that being in a game would take time away from things like fielding, bunting, and working hard on batting mechanics, or other types of practice, major coaching sessions, or what-have-you. It’s also possible that people like Revere, Brown, Mayberry, might need a day to recover from game time, practice time, or other things. Regulars have a lot more games to play, and may need some time to prepare for a grueling season, whereas roster fillers like Mini don’t, because he’s probably not going anywhere except down after the spring.

    • Don M

      February 25, 2013 at 3:05 pm

      Exactly… if we see Mini Mart playing for the Phillies during the Regular Season, we’re in trouble… but in Spring Training, you just need guys on the field to finish the game

      • Chuck A.

        February 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm

        True enough…except that he was in today’s starting lineup.

  10. Ken Bland

    February 25, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Darin Ruf’s gotten a chance to play early on. Hasn’t gotten a hit yet, doesn’t look overmatched. Wonder if Charlie runs him out again tomorrow against the Yanks, or a little break. Either way, it’d be nice to see him get a first hit. Don’t wanna let an 0-fer go too long and lead to pressing.

    Couple hits for Howard today. Beats the alternative.

    That Detroit team is good. You get Smylie and Porcello competing for the 5 spot, and that offense, it’s a helluva head start. World Series last year, and now Vic Martinez back. Ooooeee.

    • Don M

      February 25, 2013 at 4:21 pm

      He had two hits in their intrasquad game on Friday, both doubles… I don’t think anyone is worried about him not getting an official hit in a grapefruit league game yet

      • Ken Bland

        February 26, 2013 at 11:34 am

        I’m not worried, if that’s what you took from that. I’d just like to see him avoid reaching a point of an o-fer that creates some pressing.

  11. "Big Ed" Delahanty

    February 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Looks like Cinco-Ocho/Papelbomb/Psychotron found out about the karma train today. Lmao. Glad they broke up the lefty-lefty (Utley/Howard) in the middle.
    Really hope Ruff starts hitting.
    Don’t fret, gang, Mini-Mart will be gone once Spring Training is over; however, I would love to see the Rule 5 kid get some more at-bats.
    Sorry for the truncated post, on the train and about to lose Wi-Fi.
    Interesting post, Schmenkman, I liked it.

  12. Bart Shart

    February 25, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    If Martinez were an outstanding bunter, he would be a better offensive player and all-around player with some potential as a utility player. BUT, he is not a good bunter. How can a little guy with some speedand NO power NOT become a decent bunter

    • George

      February 25, 2013 at 6:19 pm

      Probably because he has no talent.

      • Chuck A.

        February 26, 2013 at 10:47 am

        Reminds me of the reason why the chicken crossed the road.

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