Harvey Dominates, Doc Sputters in 7-2 Phils Loss – Phillies Nation
2013 Game Recaps

Harvey Dominates, Doc Sputters in 7-2 Phils Loss

The wheels again fell off for Doc in his second start of the season. Photo: AP

The young Matt Harvey was impressive in seven innings, striking out nine while scattering five base runners, setting up a 7-2 Mets win. Harvey is the second Mets pitcher with consecutive starts of 7+ IP and 3 or fewer hits to start a season. The other was Nolan Ryan in 1970.

Halladay Hits the Wall

In his second start of the season, Halladay fell off track early again, allowing a three-run home run to John Buck in the third. Halladay threw 99 pitches, just 59 for strikes, allowing three walks, six hits, and seven runs, all earned. Hitters routinely took advantage of hitters’ counts and Halladay exited the game in the fifth with runners on first and third. Doc’s fastball sat around 89 for most of the night but left it over the plate too often.

Durbin Was Durbin

Chad Durbin entered the game in a tough spot, with two runners on, but allowed both to score. My favorite fictitious baseball player ever is Wally Bunting, the Quad-A type player who Rick Moranis’s wife leaves him for in the 1990 film My Blue Heaven. In the movie, a radio announcer very calmly says “Fans, what are we going to do with Wally Bunting?” I’m starting to get this feeling regarding Durbin – you don’t want to penalize him for allowing the inherited runners to score in a tough spot but Durbin compounded his situation by walking Lucas Duda. Ruben Tejada sealed the deal by singling in a pair and closing the book on Doc.

What are we going to do with Chad Durbin?

Did Howard Leave His Bat in Clearwater?

Ryan Howard went 0-3 with 2 Ks, lowering his average to .154. The progress Howard made in Spring has seemingly been erased – Howard chased one up the ladder near the letters and down and out of the strike zone.

Were There Any Positives?

There were a few – Michael Young fielded his position about as well you could ask for and Jeremy Horst had two solid innings. Raul Valdes also threw two scoreless innings.

The Phils are in action again tomorrow against the Mets and have Cliff Lee taking the hill.



  1. Double Trouble Del

    April 8, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    A continuation of last year’s debacle. Howard looks completely clueless and I’ve been a supporter of him and his mega-deal. He’s making me look realllllly bad. The rest of the team with the exception of Utley and Young are ridiculous. Perhaps its not out of the question to bat Ben Revere ninth. Oh well the sun will come up tomorrow barring a super-nova and I’ve still got to go work.

  2. Andrew From Waldorf

    April 8, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    Watched this game while chatting with my buddy from Long Island.
    He cant believe how lifeless the Phils are.

    Reminds him of the old mets teams with Delgado Reyes and Beltran.

    He understands now that he is better off without those guys.

    There is something to be said for being young and hungry.

    If it gets too bad maybe a new manager becomes a reality.

    Definately have to think if Halladays days as an effective starter may be over.

    He tries and he cares and he gives full effort but there has been nothing there the first 2 starts.

    3 games behind the mets on april 8th.

    • Jeff of Nova

      April 9, 2013 at 9:06 am

      Its pretty amazing the short memories here,

      All this comparing to the Giants, a smaller market, different fan base.

      Used to compare to the Cards, a smaller market, different fan base.

      before that used to compare to the Yankees, bigger market, larger fan base.

      Let’s be real for a sec.

      Howard contract- not looking good- not going to be platooned period can babble all you want about it not happening, play fantasy baseball instead better chance of benching him there.

      Honestly Halladay is the number 1 concern, but the media in the fans in Philly are traditionally brutal on poor performances and overreact in 99.9% of the situations. We have played 7 games!!!!!!!

      Howard will find his stroke. he is one of the streakiest hitters in all of baseball. Maybe his streaks are smaller than his MVP and ROY years, but that is his MO. He has notoriously been a slow starter.

      Hamels 2 starts he will get it together just pressing and putting too much pressure on himself to be the Ace when really Cliff is the Ace of this staff.

      Durbin is a mess said it many times, would rather have Stutes pitching.

  3. DaveP

    April 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    I am not an overly negative fan, and I don’t like to jump on players early. But I would like to put this out there – with what seemed like a logjam of players trying to get into the bullpen this spring, how long of a leash does Chad Durbin get?

    • "Big Ed" Delahanty

      April 8, 2013 at 10:32 pm

      I’m guessing till Stutes finds his old self back while pitching in the minors. I think once his shoulder and arm work out the kinks from not being used and spring training, he will be in for middle relief. Of course, I could be completely wrong on this.

  4. glutenous

    April 8, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Whats Pedro Martinez up to these days? Maybe Rubes should give his agent a call.

  5. Joe a

    April 8, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Days ago we were saying we needed to get a bunch of wins against the Mets and the Fish. Soon other teams may be saying that when playing us 🙁

  6. "Big Ed" Delahanty

    April 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    I really feel for Doc and hope he finds what is ailing him: pitching arm slot, command, etc.

    Thank God for Cliff Lee! Hoping he has another strong outing tomorrow and we can right this ship and take the series.

  7. Rudy Canoza

    April 8, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    Matt Harvey is the real deal, and Zack Wheeler is projected to be even better. Yikes.

    I don’t think they can give Halladay more than two or three more starts pitching like he is now. Even if he continues to claim he’s healthy, they’ll convince him to come down with one of those phantom injuries for the good of the team. It’s hard to watch him pitch like this.

    You know things are going bad when one of the game’s highlights is Michael Young making some routine plays in the field.

  8. chuck schreiber

    April 8, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    What have we got to lose if they bring up Ruf to play 1b versus lefties and sit Howard on the wood. Its a win win situation plus he’ll be available to PH late in games when they bring that southie in to pitch to the “Big lummox, er Piece”

    • "Big Ed" Delahanty

      April 8, 2013 at 11:28 pm

      Cholly said, “He’s having a little trouble hitting lefties…”

      Lol. Cholly the master of understatement.

      • schmenkman

        April 8, 2013 at 11:39 pm

        (in 9 plate appearances)

        Although he’s not hitting righties either at the moment. All of which is nothing he hasn’t gone through many times even in his better years.

      • wbramh

        April 9, 2013 at 12:18 am

        If Howard was swinging at basketballs he’d still strike out unless he can start making contact when they’re seven feet off the plate.

      • Johanna

        April 9, 2013 at 6:28 am

        Didn’t you guys see his segment on Philly Sports Talk? His Momma said he’s a slow starter…LOL

    • Rudy Canoza

      April 8, 2013 at 11:31 pm

      They aren’t going to platoon a guy making $25 million a year. It just won’t happen.

      • "Big Ed" Delahanty

        April 8, 2013 at 11:48 pm

        @ Schmenkman: was trying for a little laughter and levity after a brutal game to watch. I know it is a small sample size upon which to judge. I will go on record that he “seems” ( and maybe he is not), but he seems lost in the sauce at the plate, or he is trying too hard.

      • schmenkman

        April 8, 2013 at 11:52 pm

        Yeah, I completely agree that he’s lost, AND trying too hard.

      • chuck schreiber

        April 9, 2013 at 12:33 am

        You mean they would rather keep him in the lineup to their disadvantage than platoon him with Ruf because of his salary? If so, whoever made that decision needs to be fired and us P’s faithful need to find a team that wants to win. I find that comment really hard to swallow.

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 12:46 am

        Not to speak for Rudy but I think he means that teams don’t platoon their stars, no matter how bad their platoon splits are.

        Ethier, Morneau, Dunn, Crawford, Hosmer, etc.

    • chris

      April 9, 2013 at 9:15 am

      howards problem is freakin shift. he hits the ball hard to right field practically every time he makes contact. He needs to learn to hit to left for a month, and keep the defense honest.

  9. Lefty

    April 8, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    Ouch, that game bit the big one for sure.

    When you look at the amount of effort it takes 24 year old Harvey to flick a 95 mph fastball, compared to the amount of effort it takes Doc to throw 89, that says it all to me. I thought Doc’s face was going to explode he turned so purple. I love the effort don’t get me wrong, but we all age and when it’s gone, it’s gone.

    But father time has NOT been cruel to Halladay, he had a long run. ( just a shame most of it wasn’t here) The cruelty is when it’s taken away from young pitchers with promising careers ahead. So no tears for Doc. He earned his contract, it wasn’t a waste, and that first year here was glorious. So what happens from here? Does he become Greg Maddux and reinvent himself? Or does he flounder like my favorite pitcher of all time for his last few years? Time will tell.

    • Andrew From Waldorf

      April 8, 2013 at 10:53 pm

      Your favorite pitcher of all time?

      Jose Mesa or Don Carman?

      I forget

    • wbramh

      April 9, 2013 at 12:28 am

      He hangs it up.
      It’s one thing to lose your arm. Always sad, especially when a great pitcher like Halladay loses his incredible skills.
      But this is Robin Roberts or Maddux or Moyer. This is a guy who looks like he’s going to faint on the mound every time he goes out there and in any weather. I’ve been harping on this but I am convinced something more is wrong with Doc and that bothers me much more than the Phils losing a class pitcher and class act. I think he’s ill and I’m very concerned.

    • Dave

      April 9, 2013 at 7:39 am

      True Lefty. But was is sad is that Halladay is losing it a bit earlier than most great pitchers. If you count last year, he lost it at 34. If he doesn’t reinvent himself, he probably doesn’t have much chance of getting into the HOF either.

  10. Morris Buttermaker

    April 8, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    The offense should be thanking Doc. His horrible performance is keeping the spotlight off of the non-existent run production.

  11. Andrew From Waldorf

    April 8, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Great as if its not bad enough bring back Oswalt?

    And yes you can platoon or sit anyone making any amount.

    As Ive said many times the Giants won a WS benching thier highest priced offensive player ( Rowand) and pitcher ( Zito)

    • Rudy Canoza

      April 9, 2013 at 12:04 am

      $11 million is slightly less than $25 million, and I’m talking about the reality of the situation right now in Philadelphia. Do you actually believe that RAJ would allow his highest paid position player to become a part time player? It would be admitting that the Howard contract was a huge mistake, and in case you haven’t noticed, RAJ doesn’t often admit to being wrong. It’s not like this is the last year of that deal – they still have three more guaranteed years after this one. A platoon with Howard just isn’t happening.

      • wbramh

        April 9, 2013 at 12:31 am

        Well I suppose Ryan could be a hot dog vender when the team faces lefties. That would make up some of the salary.

      • chuck schreiber

        April 9, 2013 at 12:42 am

        So we should just sit back for three years and know, because of his contract, he”ll be in lineup everyday and we have no chance for full success. So we should as lemmings just pay the prices for tickets, beer and food and don’t have any regard for how the team does. I don’t think so. Amaro needs to go and Howard needs to learn how to hit to left or sit his big ass down at least versus southpaws when Ruf can start and pinch hit late in games for him which gives the P’s a better chance of victory.

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 12:57 am

        Teams do not bench or platoon their stars. It should be done, but it just isn’t.

      • chuck schreiber

        April 9, 2013 at 1:00 am

        Schmeck, how bout the Giants and Bochy’s success doing it??

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 1:05 am

        If you mean Rowand, by 2010 he had had exactly ONE season as an above-average hitter in the last 6. He had hit .230 that year, with a .281 OBP and no power, and was one of the worst hitters in baseball. Not a very compelling example.

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 1:29 am

        Here are some players’ OPS vs. lefties over the last 3 years — which of these players get platooned?

        .588 – Hosmer
        .601 – Ethier
        .647 – Choo
        .650 – Morneau
        .661 – Bourn
        .665 – Heyward
        .678 – Berkman
        .695 – Mauer
        .708 – Howard
        .716 – Helton

    • frank

      April 9, 2013 at 12:38 am

      That’s exactly right. Bochy, the giants manager will bench the highest paid player for the good of the team. I’ve seen it many times with success and the players never complain. In the 2010 world series, Barry zito did not even make the team and he’s under contract for millions. But he wasn’t pitching good. Last year he was pitching good and was one of the heroes of the post season. I’ve said it before, bochy is the reason they have 2 rings. He is a brilliant manager. Just a response to a comment from Rudy about mets pitchers Harvey and wheeler possibly being a better pitcher. Listening to a talk show out here in California the other day. The guest from the minor leagues, supposedly an expert, says after wheeler, the mets have so many pitchers as strong as they are in line to start coming up to the majors that they probably will have no choice to make trades for lack of room on the team. If I was in upper management with the phillies, I would aggressively look at their system and really try and pick up one or two prospects at any cost. They have money issues, sooooooo. Be smart

      • Andrew From Waldorf

        April 9, 2013 at 12:43 am

        Exactly Frank thats why they have 2 titles.
        With teams that talent wise couldnt touch the 2011 Phillies team that lost in the first round.

        Its SF though and this is philly.

        But if it gets bad enough anything is possible.

      • Ken Bland

        April 9, 2013 at 11:50 am

        Unfortunately, I don’t know that Zito and Howard are an apples to apples comparison. Zito was really bad for a long time before he was knocked off the post season roster. Unfortunately, as bad as he has looked on the whole since Opening Day, it is only 7 games, and it’s not like streaks are anything new to Howard. Plus, he’s a hit the ball hard a fair amount of the time this year. I get the idea of an occasional platoon, a removal from the 4 spot, all that good stuff, I just don’t know if it’s that simple. I haven’t looked at his numbers off Gee, but a night off might not be a bad idea. I kinda doubt it happens, but that’s a pretty wild guess.

  12. Morris Buttermaker

    April 9, 2013 at 12:08 am

    I fully welcome an Oswalt comeback. Just because it would help me with my t-shirt situation. I have 10 different Phillies players t-shirts. Only 3 of them (Howard, Halladay and Ruiz) are still on the team, and Ruiz is currently suspended. All of the rest have set sail for greener pastures- Rolen, Thome, Pence, Victorino, Ibanez, Werth and Oswalt. But it’s mostly my fault for buying t-shirts at Modells for $5 after the player gets traded or signs somewhere else.

    • Johanna

      April 9, 2013 at 6:32 am

      I think you can still proudly wear Rolen and Thome…

    • Johanna

      April 9, 2013 at 6:34 am

      You need to burn the Werth shirt – or use it as a cleaning rag. LOL

  13. Bruce

    April 9, 2013 at 12:34 am

    Tonight’s reports are saying Halladay’s velocity is back again averaging 89.7 on the gun (including cutters). The bad news is his continued lost of command on breaking pitches; falling behind in counts to the hitters. Consequently, the Mets hitters were sitting on the fastballs. Obviously, his lack of command is uncharacteristic of him. Is he trying too hard to make the perfect pitch instead of attacking the strike zone? Does he have a “mechanics” problem (arm slot)?

    I still have confidence in Halladay. He is an experienced veteran with great knowledge of the game and can eventually resolve his problem(s) with the necessary adjustments. Remember the Jamie Moyer lesson #101: It’s not how hard you throw but WHERE you throw the pitch. (smile)

  14. smitty

    April 9, 2013 at 12:36 am

    Irrespective of $$$, contracts etc., it is very painful to watch one of the very best players of any generation deteriorate before our very eyes. For me, it was a very sad event in front of a national ESPN audience. Imagine the embarrassment, the pain, and the feelings Doc had…..I don’t care how much $$$$ he earns – to be disrobed in front of millions of fans….I know I was embarrassed for that man who has given us all so many memorable moments. In fact, I couldn’t wait to see the basketball game and turned the Phils off to see something less difficult to watch………..

  15. Andrew From Waldorf

    April 9, 2013 at 12:41 am

    He doesnt have to admit to being wrong.
    You can see it on the field plan as day.

    Do I thnk he will bench him?

    My point was that a team that really wanted to win would do whatever to win.

    If it continues like this Charlie may be gone sooner rather than later.

    Hopefully a new manager will do whats best for the team and stop coddling the over priced prima donalds.

    The salary should be moot when it comes to managing the team.

  16. Bruce

    April 9, 2013 at 12:56 am

    One other comment: Matt Harvey is a beast! The Mets’ starting rotation is becoming more respectful as they groomed their young arms and much hyped Zack Wheeler is waiting in the wings (eventually to be called up from AAA minors). That team is one solid hitter away from contending in the division.

    I’m still hoping for the Phillies to make one last hurrah this season with their aging superstars. Right now, their hitting slump, like the hot bats, can be contagious. It has affected just about the entire team with the exception of Utley. Even Dominic Brown has cooled down to a mere .231 BA. Of course, the Phillies do have a excuse for not hitting tonight.. the dominance of a emerging superstar, Matt Harvey.

  17. CarlG

    April 9, 2013 at 1:34 am

    We’ve all heard this stat before, but I think it bears repeating tonight. Ruin Tomorrow Jr. is paying Ryan Howard $40,000 per at bat. He’s hitting .167. I don’t know what you make a year, but that means that each time he gets up and wiffs mindlessly at whatever junk they throw his way, he makes most of my salary for the year.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go find a pencil, sharpen it, and shove it in my eye.

    • Chuck A.

      April 9, 2013 at 7:42 am

      This one had me laughing. Specifically the last sentence.

    • schmenkman

      April 9, 2013 at 7:56 am

      It might be more productive to go find a batting cage and learn to hit home runs (or teach your young so to do the same).

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 7:57 am

        (young son)

  18. Phillies fan from Germany

    April 9, 2013 at 3:55 am

    I know rationally it is still very early but when the duo Hamels & Halladay combine to give up 25 Runs in 18 Innings over their first 4 starts and the Phillies start 2-5 against the Braves, Royals and Mets I am ready to panic. Can anybody please calm me down?

    • wbramh

      April 9, 2013 at 4:58 am

      How ’bout them Eagles?

  19. Betasigmadeltashag

    April 9, 2013 at 4:56 am

    The offense did not score runs today but they have scored enough runs against the Royals to sweep that series Doc struggle with his control again as did Cole I have faith they will go through hot starts. The biggest problem is running Durbin out there with guys on base every day. Aumont is having control issues but it time to start giving him the shot when you bring a RHer in.
    I know I am doing it to Durbin and maybe he can find some old form. But slow streaks happen this offense will hit can we please wait at least 20-30 games before we bury this team

  20. MikeyPaDc

    April 9, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Horst and Valdes DID do okay. Yes that’s true.

    But at that point in an absolutely zero pressure situation and w the Mets all but not giving a crap- yeah those 2 did good. Big deal.

    Not a lot to be happy about so far. Maybe- just the fact that its still early. Cole pitching like a slob really spreads bad karma for the team.
    And lets see how long Chaz stays true to Durbin. What a waste it would be to keep Chad. We let him go before, did we think he’s magically better???

    And I had a bad feeling once Howard whiffed when Benny was on 3rd. It wasn’t even close-99 on the radar. Wow Harvey.

    What do you honestly think Howard feels? It’s like HA-I’m making $25mil for a .154 average. Does anyone know him ?

    • schmenkman

      April 9, 2013 at 7:59 am

      From everything I’ve heard about Howard, this must be tearing him up inside.

      • Chuck A.

        April 9, 2013 at 9:11 am

        I would imagine it is. I know people love to get all over highly-paid athletes that are struggling as if to suggest that they don’t care. But I don’t think Howard is in that group.

    • Andrew From Waldorf

      April 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm

      I think Howard tries and cares.
      He has not been properly coached.
      You have a GM and a manager who allow players to swing at 3-0 pitches losing in late innings while leading off.

      A home run to lead off losing 5-1 makes it 5-2. A walk puts pressure on the other team and theres a chance for a rally.

      I do think that if the Phillies lose 15-5 tongiht and he hits 3 home runs he will be happy. As will a large portion of his fans who feel the need to always apologize or take up for him.
      I think he would also consider winning an MVP on a last place team a good year.
      I would not.

      I do believe he cares though and there is effort. And that he isnt a bad guy.
      Its about performance on the field.

      • schmenkman

        April 9, 2013 at 12:33 pm

        “I think Howard tries and cares.”

        “I do think that if the Phillies lose 15-5 tongiht and he hits 3 home runs he will be happy.”

        Huh? How do you reconcile these statements? So he likes losing?

    • Andrew From Waldorf

      April 9, 2013 at 12:46 pm

      No Schenk I think he is like most people and athletes.

      The Michael Jordan and Doc Halladay and Pete Rose types that would sell their children and mothers to win are a very small minority of the athletes today.

      Not knocking Howard for anything but performance on the field.
      As Ive said before hes a good guy and cares. The contract is 0% his fault.
      Hes been a liability for awhile on the diamond.
      But thats just my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

  21. George

    April 9, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Well, here’s my two cents.

    You can’t bench Howard against lefties unless you have a guaranteed talent to replace him with. Ruf is not guaranteed, and if he’s brought up, someone else has to go back to AAA. Who?

    Halladay is having command issues partly because he’s trying too hard to get his velocity up. He needs to slow down. Even if he’s only hitting 87 MPH, if it’s where it needs to be, it’ll be more effective than 95 MPH in some batter’s wheelhouse.

    The offense faced an extemely difficult pitcher. They’ll score runs in other situations.

    The Phil’s consistent slow starts make me wonder if there’s something wrong with their ST program. Every year, they stink in April.

  22. Dave

    April 9, 2013 at 9:42 am

    BTW…does anyone else but me hate the way the bullpen stats are compiled? If you look at Durbin’s numbers from last night you would say he didn’t do too bad. 1 inn, 0 runs 1 hit and 1 walk. What isn’t shown is that the hit brought in 2 runners. Theoretically, Durbin could come in 50 times this year, surrender a hit that scores runners and his era remains in tact. I always thought that the pitcher leaving the game with runners in scoring position and the reliever who gave up the hit to score the inherited runners should be each charged .5 runs on their stats since they are both responsible for the runners scoring.

    • schmenkman

      April 9, 2013 at 11:10 am

      fyi, if you go the game log below, it shows that he has allowed all 7 inherited runners to score this year (look for IR and IS). There are probably others that show the same kind of thing:


      • Dave

        April 10, 2013 at 10:09 am

        That’s good, but it should count against his ERA. It’s deceptive the way it’s tracked now.

      • schmenkman

        April 10, 2013 at 10:43 am

        I don’t disagree, I just don’t see the way ERA is calculated changing any time soon.

  23. Chuck A.

    April 9, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Time to reel off 5 in a row. No reason to think that they can’t rebound and win the next two at home to even the home record….and then go down to Miami and sweep the Fish. Seriously…as bad as the first week’s worth of games has been, this is completely realistic and doable.

    Cliff Lee AGAIN is being called upon to be the stopper.

    • Ken Bland

      April 9, 2013 at 11:38 am

      I wish it was that simple, reeling off 5 straight. They run into a similar, if not carbon copy of Friday night when Miami is scheduled to throw this 20 year old Jose Hernandez. He’s one of these 20 year olds they moved the clock on by starting him rather than waiting a few weeks and controlling him an extra year. Pitched real well Sunday against the Mets. Hamels gets him, so I’m not thinking they automatically lose, but it isn’t like they’ll be facing a Miami team that’s as bad as the one that appeared as beatable as after they completed their fire sale. Actually, I guess Lannan gets him with the night off. We’ll see if they can win these next 2 against the Mets even before that. I wouldn’t go further than maybe, but not much point expecting to lose.

  24. brooks

    April 9, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Pressing too hard way too hard. Who’s in charge of motivation?

  25. Bob in Bucks

    April 9, 2013 at 10:57 am

    The team is flawed and we need to rebuild. Amaro must get young talent. Trade Utley and Chooch for some young studs. Throw in Lee if the deal is good.

    Doc gone at end of year. Build around Hamels. The earlier we start the sooner we can get a new team. Expect below 500 for 3-4 years.

    • Ken Bland

      April 9, 2013 at 11:41 am

      I’ll just say this about a post that carries a flavor of complete fire sale. It would have been interesting if that article of a month ago by Jonah Keri recommending a complete fire sale came out this morning. Probably drive an already lousy feeling about the club to the depths of despair.

  26. TheDipsy

    April 9, 2013 at 11:23 am

    RE: Howard v. LHP.

    No other manager would have sat by this long while allowing Howard to hit in the 4 spot against LHP. The money that he makes, the problem(s) that a change might create for his psyche, etc. all pale in consideration to the woeful inadequacy of his performance and what it does to the team. Ryan can’t or won’t change his approach and Charlie either doesn’t care or just chooses to lift with a black hole in the cleanup spot. When you bat Howard against a lefty, he has a 1 in 5 chance of not making an out. What else needs to be said?

    The Dipsy

    • schmenkman

      April 9, 2013 at 11:27 am

      Dipsy, it sounds like you may know: which of the players below get platooned vs. lefties (shown is their OPS vs. lefties over the last 3 years):

      .588 – Hosmer
      .601 – Ethier
      .647 – Choo
      .650 – Morneau
      .661 – Bourn
      .665 – Heyward
      .678 – Berkman
      .695 – Mauer
      .708 – Howard
      .716 – Helton

  27. TheDipsy

    April 9, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Is this your way of disagreeing with my post? I don’t think Howard should be platooned but I would like to see him dropped to 6th in the order or, if need be, 5th.

    The Dipsy

  28. TheDipsy

    April 9, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Well, if thats true than lets just put nine names in a hat and pull them out one by one before each game and that can be out lineup.

    The Dipsy

    • Phillies fan from Germany

      April 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm

      Well, as I said, it has an impact but a very small one. Of course, if you do everything wrong with the line-up then the impact might be a liitle bigger.

      Hitting Howard 6th in the lineup against lefties will give him maybe 20 PA’s less against lefties compared to hitting him in the clean-up spot. over the whole season. That is what I call minimal impact.

  29. The Original Chuck P

    April 9, 2013 at 11:55 am

    If by chance Roy Halladay is reading this… which he’s not… it would be so wonderful to convey to him that we love him. The postseason no-hitter, the perfect game, the Cy Young… Roy, you have nothing to prove to us. If there’s something going on, we understand because you gave us everything. If that’s not the case – if it is truly mental – there is no need to press any harder because you have been a warrior and there is nothing that you can do to take away what you’ve already accomplished. Go to the drawing board and get the mechanics right… if it comes back, it comes back. If not, we will gracefully accept the situation for what it is… we appreciate you, Roy.

    I’m not sure what’s going on with Howard… I swear that teams pitch him differently in Spring Training. I didn’t expect him to have a good spring and he did but I think that was a mirage… I was worried that all of the off season distractions would cause him to lack focus early on and have him ill prepared for the season. As much as it pains me to say it – and I’m a huge Howard supporter – I think we’re seeing a guy that’s just not ready to play. I think that he wants to do well and I don’t think he’s laughing his way to the bank like some suggest but if you’re not there physically, it doesn’t matter how much you want it. Actions speak louder than words… I think Ryne Sandberg’s structured practices are working (the defense has been ok) but maybe the big man needs to see some more live pitching to find his stroke again.

    • Chuck A.

      April 9, 2013 at 12:28 pm

      He may not be laughing his way to the bank….but he’s obviously having no problems going to the bank. I don’t feel sorry for Roy other than I know he must be hurting and that he desperately wants to correct the problems and help the team. That has to be incredibly painful and I DO feel bad for him in that regard. But he’s done well in this league, earned his accolades (and his money) and is headed for the Hall, whether he hangs it up today or 5 years from now.

      • Dave

        April 10, 2013 at 10:16 am

        Chuck…you really think Halladay is heading for the HOF? I’d say he’s 60/40 at this point. His career numbers are not that great. Losing it at 34 years old is not helping either.

    • brooks

      April 9, 2013 at 2:26 pm

      there is nothing wrong physically with Ryan Howard. This is all mental – its all a matter of relaxing because this man is pressing the pedal to the floor and going nowhere quickly.

  30. Philaflava

    April 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    I hate to be Debbie Downer, although it seems like the majority beat me to it.

    But it is so typical for us fans to avoid the inevitable. Durbin is this years Qualls and reunions rarely work out for the best. It also tells me Cholly doesn’t trust anyone other than Adams and Pap but not for nothing, like that Canadian go out there and throw heat. At least he’ll force people to swing unlike Durbin who automatically is advance to “Go.” Howard, while notoriously a slow starter has no excuse. Nobody wants to hear why a guy making 25M can’t get it right. He looked like he “learned’ this Spring and then forgot it all by the start of the season.

    Revere, while fun to watch on the base bath has zero pop, no arm and makes me really regret not finding the pieces or $ for one of the Upton brothers. Cole will get it right. Lee will be our best pitcher but at the end of the day, our outfield is a mess, our SP is almost as bad as our mid relief and we show no signs of power from the heart of our line-up with the exception of the God Utley.

  31. Andrew From Waldorf

    April 9, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Zito was in his 4th year with the Giants when he was left off the post season roster.

    I know some here thinkk Howard is as good as ever.
    But to me the decline has been on going since 2010.

    As the Dipsy is trying to point out.

    I am not saying to bench or platoon or anything else.

    I am saying to be smart. If the Phillies face a lefthander the next 50 games just blindly penciling him in 4th is nonsense.
    If the other team brings in a left handed reliever who howard is say 0-15 off with 14 Ks. in the ninth with the bases loaded and 2 outs Id like to at least think maybe hed be pinch hit for.

    You guys are probably right and he will hit 4th forever regardless.

    This is not good. This is one of the big problems of why this team has declined. Mirroring almost exactly the decline of Ryan Howard.

    Re: Halladay

    Its not his fault there wasnt a WS title won.
    He deserved to win one and came here to get it.
    Just didnt happen.

    • frank

      April 9, 2013 at 1:43 pm

      That’s true about Howard. The media would have a field day benching a 25 million dollar man after one week of the season. I think Ryan does really care about his performance. That’s why I think he needs help. I don’t care what the stats say about changing the line up around. To take the pressure off of Ryan, I would bat him 5th or even 6th for now, and also pinch hit for him against a lefty in a critical late inning situation. I believe the manager has a responsibility to his players to help get them through tough times. And possibly, at the same time, something good might happen for the team and for Ryan.

    • Lefty

      April 9, 2013 at 9:17 pm

      Ryan Howard will be penciled in batting 4th in every game he plays as long as Charlie Manuel is the manager. You need to get past this, because it’s not gonna change man. Mets broadcasters just said that Howard has the longest streak of hitting 4th in the lineup of any major leaguer since Albert Belle in the 1990’s

  32. teejayvee

    April 9, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    If they keep playing this way through April, is Charlie’s job in trouble?

  33. JohnMatrix

    April 9, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Ive said it before and ill say it again, its almost like that last game against St Louis in 2011 broke halladay. 125 pitches, 1 run and a loss. one of the guttiest performances ive seen.

  34. teejayvee

    April 9, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    ended Carpenter’s career too.

  35. TheDipsy

    April 9, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    If Charlie Manuel were a doctor or a lawyer he would be sued for malpractice for letting Howard hit 4 against lefties. Day after day. Season after season.

    The Dipsy

  36. Ken Bland

    April 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Phils lineup for Wednesday is out and pretty standard. Actually, more than pretty standard, it’s what you’d expect against the lefty. Howard does have 2 homers in 7 at bats off Gee, so any thought of resting him for a night, let alone moving him in the order went wayside fast.

    Besides that, RyHo is having a kickass year compared to Rick Ankiel. He’s struck out 12 times in 14 at bats.

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