Doc Rocked Again in Loss, Could be DL-bound – Phillies Nation
2013 Game Recaps

Doc Rocked Again in Loss, Could be DL-bound

The Phillies and Roy Halladay were blown out by the Marlins on Sunday, 14-2.  Halladay was lit up in his last start in Cleveland and he may have been even worse today, giving up nine earned runs to the no-name Miami lineup.  Doc only got seven outs before being pulled in the third inning in favor of Raul Valdes.  His final line; four hits, nine earned runs, four walks and four strikeouts over 2.1 innings.  His ERA now sits at 8.65.

Roy Halladay appears to be headed to the DL after Sunday's disastrous start. (AP photo)

Roy Halladay appears to be headed to the DL after Sunday’s disastrous start. (AP photo)


Halladay acknowledged after the game that he was experiencing soreness in his right shoulder and Ruben Amaro told the media that the right-hander is probably headed for the disabled list.  Doc has been awful in four of his seven starts, making it nearly impossible for the Phillies to even compete in those outings.  While an injury would certainly help to explain Halladay’s ineffectiveness, it is worth wondering whether or not the Phillies are just pulling the plug on the former Cy Young award winer, regardless of injury, until they can better grasp exactly what is going on with him.


The Phillies offense was anemic for the second straight game.  Last night it was against the electric stuff of 20-year-old Jose Fernandez.  Today, it was not.  While Kevin Slowey has pitched very well in his first seven starts as a Marlin – his ERA dropped to 1.81 after seven shutout innings today – Sunday’s victory was his first since September 18, 2010.  He was 0-10 in his last 15 starts headed into today’s start.  In short, Slowey is the type of journeyman pitcher that this lineup used to feast on.

To be fair, the Phillies were down 9-0 in the third inning, which is undoubtedly demoralizing for an offense.  Still, they could only muster four hits on Sunday.  They scored their only two runs in the bottom of the eighth inning, with the score 12-0, and did so without hitting a ball out of the infield.  The offense has sporadically shown signs of life this season, but has yet to put together a consistent stretch.  After a disappointing April, this Phillies team needs a win streak here or there in order to get back into the divisional race.  It will be impossible to do that if the offense scores two runs over two games as they did twice this week.  They were outscored 36-4 in those four outings.  At minus-34, the Phillies now own the second worst run differential in the National League, leading only the Marlins.  Only the Astros and the Blue Jays are worse in the American League.



  1. DaveP

    May 5, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    I love doc. I want him to succeed. He came to the phillies to win a World Series. And he is a competitor in every sense of the word. But he needs to realize that him trying to pitch through pain and “be the hero” isn’t helping anyone out – not himself, and definitely not the team. Figure out what’s wrong, Doc. If you’re hurt, rest and rehab. Don’t figure it out on the field. Otherwise the team you want to win a World Series with won’t even reach the postseason.

  2. Joe A

    May 5, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Well said Dave. I second your comment.

  3. TheDipsy

    May 5, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    A cynic would suggest that he’s going to be a free agent after the season and he would try to squelch rumors that he’s got a bad shoulder. But, honestly, I think Doc is probably above that. Now, we have Pettibone and Lannan as the 4 and 5. Sheesh.

    The Dipsy

    • Nah.Roots

      May 5, 2013 at 9:02 pm

      How is Pettibone/Lannan any worse than sending Doc out there to give up 5+ runs per inning?

      • Glutenous

        May 5, 2013 at 9:07 pm

        Morgan will most likely get the call if Doc hits the DL. Hopefully he will be a pleasant surprise.

      • Rudy Canoza

        May 5, 2013 at 9:08 pm

        They can’t be any worse since Doc hasn’t been Doc since 2011.

  4. Ken Bland

    May 5, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    Unfortunately, there’s a possibility that today’s start was Doc Halladay’s last one as a Phillies home pitcher. It’s actually a good thing when you reach rock bottom because you have finally reached the point where you can rebuild. This isn’t necessarily the case with Doc, but it is the ballclub. However they proceeed, be it Morgan, or to protect his growth pace with something like a free agent, they have a healthier chance now to compete to the extent that the pitcher controls that. Scott Kazmir would have been more representative of that than Doc in several instances. That’s not sarcasm, it’s a fact. So in that regard, you go on to play the World Champs and can at least focus on the task at hand instead of sounding like the complete jerks around here that dwell on this I’d bet my life it’s personality driven negative.

    For Doc, it’s a step toward mental health. You just lose it, it’s gotta be a long road to closure.
    If this is a step toward you just can’t do it anymore, at least there’s a physical reason. is this thee end for him? Well, a Dr. Andrews type might say yes, but until that point, you really have to be pretty stupid to think yes. That shouldn’t be a problem for a lot of people.

  5. Andrew From Waldorf

    May 5, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    Elbows are generaly fixable. Shoulders are not.

    He should have gotten his WS title when he was the best player in sports in 2011.

    Wish him the best and hope he makes it back.

    • Ken Bland

      May 6, 2013 at 8:53 am

      I think it was when Lidge was hurt, I’d read a similar statement about shoulders being more of a concern, so that’s right track stuff. Fact of the matter (I assume) is Dr. Yocum might just recommend rest. But at least we have some degree of clarity now, or should soon..

  6. Bob in Bucks

    May 5, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    It is just very sad. I don’t know if he can make it back but he needs to work it out somewhere else rather than on the Phillies now. It would be one thing if he had a “bad” ERA of 4.5 but this is embarassing.

    Let the rebuilding begin! Sooner the better!

    Did you see some of those kids on the Marlins? They will be a force again sooner than you think. We need to trade in our elder statesmen for a lot of prospects.

  7. Lefty

    May 5, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    @The dipsy,
    The man has made 150 million dollars in his career. I don’t care what a cynic thinks, there is no way he’s worried about free agency at this stage. Unless he’s a complete idiot, and I’m guessing he’s not, his family is plenty secure.

  8. Bruce

    May 5, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    I’m a fan of Halladay and he has had a great career so it’s sad to see how the opposing teams are taking advantafge of his physical problems on the mound. I suppose it was self denial on his part that he thought it was nothing more than general soreness that pitchers would have the morning after a game. However, when it became progressively worse and affected his performance on the mound, he knew then he must face reality.

    Halladay said he will have tests this week in Los Angeles and be examined by Dr. Lewis Yocum. I wish him all the best and that he needs nothing more than rest which the DL is the best solution.

  9. glutenous

    May 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Just hearing doc speak after the game, he sounds so dejected. I really feel for the man because he is a fierce competitor and wants nothing more than to pitch well and win. I know he has had a long, great, successful career, but its just been a painful realization that he can’t do it anymore, and the decline was rapid. Maybe the saddest part is one of the greatest pitchers of this generation, and probably of any generation, most likely will never taste the sweet success of a world championship. Phillies couldn’t make it happen for him in 2010 or 2011, the best chances he ever had to get a ring. Its just disheartening.

  10. DaveP

    May 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Note- MLB network just played their top plays from the month of April. Number 1 – beating out everything from the triple play by the Yankees to the walk off 19th inning homer by Brandon Moss – was the Ben Revere “miracle catch”.

    Gotta love that.

  11. bacardipr

    May 6, 2013 at 1:44 am

    Im worried that RAJ will trade what little prospects he has for some 4/5 starter type.

    • George

      May 6, 2013 at 8:11 am

      I have no fear of that whatsoever. There’s not a GM alive who would ever think Halladay could be “filled in for” by a #5 starter. Such a starter would be barely better (if at all) than anyone already in the system, so Amaro might just as well go with what’s already at AAA. Without that third “ace,” Halladay, the team won’t be going far, and anyone with one functioning brain cell wouldn’t trade away the future for a lost cause.

  12. TheDipsy

    May 6, 2013 at 6:34 am

    @Lefty – I did mention in my post that I though Halladay was above that. I ust hope they don’t prescribe “rest” for him. Jus go in and take care of the problem.

    The Dipsy

    • Lefty

      May 6, 2013 at 10:35 am

      Yeah you sure did, my bad. Personally I don’t care what they prescribe, heck have him go see Chase’s guru in Arizona (unless he is a knees only guy), it worked for him.

  13. Johanna

    May 6, 2013 at 6:35 am

    I’ve held out a childlike optimism that Doc will get through his struggles and succeed. Seeing this happen to him makes me so sad. I don’t think he will ever be the same.

    • Ken Bland

      May 6, 2013 at 8:59 am

      A “childlike” optimism is an interesting phrase. I guess the perils of adulthood do teach a difference.

      One thing about Doc is he doesn’t have to be the same as the master that he was. Perhaps he can recover to the point where he’s fun to watch. Til the docs say it’s over, I’ll believe he’s not worth the price of time and a ticket later. Right now, the diagnosis is all that’s worth attention.

  14. Chuck A.

    May 6, 2013 at 6:58 am

    So if Morgan gets the call, we’re gonna see 4/5 of that proposed 2015 rotation I was suggesting earlier this week. At least until Lannan returns.

  15. Chuck A.

    May 6, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Kendrick (2013 Kyle)

    So is that better than:

    Kendrick (2008 Kyle)


    Just asking….because a lot is being made of the Phillies not going anywhere without Doc, which I totally get and kind of agree with.

    Still….. ????

    • Ken Bland

      May 6, 2013 at 9:10 am

      It’s ridiculous to think the Phils aren’t going anywhere without Doc. It’s much more relavant as to if other areas don’t improve, THEN the landing spot wanted is ridiculously unlikely. No offense, but I wouldn’t dare offer an answer to your seemingly asked question about what rotation is better, ’08, or the revamped ’13 edition. One part of the game (albeit a major one), but against a totally different set of competition, a 5 year older supporting cast in several instances, I mean, who cares? Perhaps others will bit the baot of the question, but in my own eyes, it’s completely unrelated to reality.

      Now if you ask if the current rotation as you defined it is better than whoever the next few weeks presents, that’s a fair question, but I don’t see much point in looking past the week ahead. There is zero, including buy or sell that’s gonna change within that time frame. The Phils need to win some games. Cle and Miami was a disaster, I’m just looking to see what can happen for the better. I’m positive this club has the character to do that. What extent character plays into it, unfortunately might be a problem.

  16. JMills

    May 6, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Amaro and Manuel are fortunate Haladay”s injury takes the spot light because I was fully expecting one or both of them to be fired overnight.

    • Double Trouble Del

      May 6, 2013 at 9:06 am

      I thought the same thing, mostly concerning the manager. With that being said, no manager is going to stop Jimmy from his 10 game stretches of popping up the ball, is not going to enable Michael Young to actually drive the ball instead of hitting into dps, is not going instill any kind of power into Revere’s bat etc. As depressing as the thought is, we’re going to endure this up and down style of play until the trade deadline, when at least one starting pitcher and perhaps as many as five everyday players are dealt and the re-building process can begin in earnest.

      • JMills

        May 6, 2013 at 2:12 pm

        Firing Manuel could be the wakeup call some of these players need before season is totally lost. Then if there is no improvement let the fire sail begin!

  17. teejvee

    May 6, 2013 at 9:24 am

    A special shoutout goes to Michael Young for batting .318 and haveing a whopping SIX RBI. Can you say ‘meaningless 2 out singles’? Add to that his brutal GDP numbers and you have a VERY unproductive hiiter in the middle of your lineup. Maybe 7th or 8th would be abtter spot foe Mr. Young, no?

    • Ken Bland

      May 6, 2013 at 10:00 am

      Maybe it’s ironic, but all 6 of Young’s ribbies are against righty pitching.

      He’s played in 24 games, and come to bat with RISP in 17 of those games. I don’t know what a number to expect out of 24 games would be where you’d expect a guy who’s more or less hit in the order where you’d expect RBI ops, but 17 times out of 24 games, or about 68 plate appearances seems low. Ironically (I guess), the numbers say he is getting hits with RISP, and men on base (he’s “only” hitting .286 with bases empty). I guess part of it is the same ailment paralyzing this team more often than not….timing. I’m not defending him, 6 ribs is weak, and I thought he would be a good 8 guy back in the spring, but that was in part because I thought Revere’s speed would be an asset at 2 or 1. I’ve run from that thinking faster than Revere runs.

      Maybe 7 is the answer. Or selling his soul to the timing gods.

      I can’t speak to the high GIDP rate. I hope that’s cyclical. Cyclical seems to be a favorite defense mechanism of mine.

  18. Sy

    May 7, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Once again this year Roy is using his shoulder as an excuse. Last year it was his Latissimus Dorsi muscle. The recovery from the muscle strain was much too long. Now, if he truly has a shoulder problem, he wouldn’t even to throw one pitch. The real problem is that he lost it last year and never got it back. Being disabled is a ruse.

    With all that I have said, one must wonder if I know what I’m talking about. Well, I do as I am a Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon.

    • schmenkman

      May 7, 2013 at 5:06 pm

      Tough to make a diagnosis without seeing the patient, Doc.

    • frank

      May 7, 2013 at 5:41 pm

      I am also a retired doctor and I agree 100%. I felt last year that doc was afraid he was done and did not want to admit it could be a career ending shoulder injury. That doesn’t make him a bad guy. I think he is so dedicated to winning for the phillies, that he could not try with all he had in him overcome this. I could be totally wrong. He has to know that shoulder injuries are nothing like elbow injuries. At his age, there is no way to come back from shoulder surgery.
      But I give him credit for sincerely trying. Totally the opposite of Santana of the mets. He apparently let himself go in the off season without throwing at all or working out and then got upset at the mets when they questioned him about it. He’s walking away with about 30 million dollars and seems to not care at all. Doc cares and that’s the tragic part of this. Again, I hope I am wrong.

    • Lefty

      May 7, 2013 at 6:21 pm

      Internet Board Certified? Well as long as you’re here- I’m having shoulder and neck pain myself lately, it feels like I’ve hit my funny bone (which as you know is not funny) almost all the time. Any ideas?

      • frank

        May 7, 2013 at 6:59 pm

        Sounds like disrespect to me. My sign to sign out.

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