Losses Keep Piling Up For Phils – Phillies Nation
2013 Game Recaps

Losses Keep Piling Up For Phils

Hamels has been a victim of poor run support all season. (Photo: AP)

Cliff Lee gave the Phillies a quality start tonight. Why would that be enough? (Photo: AP)

All the best metaphors and similes to describe a Phillies loss in which they blow an early lead have been exhausted over the course of this dreadful season. At this stage, you can only come out and say it: The Phillies were up 4-0 to start the third inning of tonight’s game. They’d end up down 8-5 by the time the ninth inning was over. It’s an outcome as predictable as the sunset at the end of a long summer’s day (Turns out there was one simile left). Charlie Manuel’s 1,000th win celebration will be delayed for another day, as his squad is not much in the business of winning presently.

THE OFFENSE GOES ONE AND DONE

– They’ve done it all year, so why should tonight have been any different? After putting up some runs early, the Phils shut it down, and the inability to tack on resulted in a loss.

Darin Ruf stayed hot with a two-run homer in the second. The home run would spark a four-run inning for the Phils, with Lee and Jimmy Rollins accounting for the other RBIs. Ruf now has four home runs in the month of August and is posting a .984 OPS. He’s been a bright spot, for sure. The Phils were helped a bit by some sloppy Nats D, but they had done the necessary damage. Unfortunately, they would go cold after that. And that is understating it.

– From the third to the seventh inning, the Phils  managed only two hits. The Nats bullpen completely shut them down. Tanner Roark, a right-hander appearing for just the second time in his career, pitched particularly well, getting through two innings with just twelve pitches.

CLIFF LEE REBOUNDS….KINDA

– It’s been a tough start to the second half for Cliff Lee. On top of missing a start due to a stiff neck last week, he’s suffered through a very poor month of July in which he’s posted a 5.92 ERA and allowed eight home runs in just four starts. He would pitch better tonight, but not by much.

– After escaping the first three frames unharmed, Lee ran into trouble in the fourth. He’d allow two runs on three hits, two of them for extra bases. Lee did manage to keep the ball in the yard in the inning, something he’s struggled with of late.

– He’d get hurt again in the sixth, allowing a two-out run to make it 4-3. Lee would stop the bleeding there, maintaining the slimmest of leads for the bullpen. It wasn’t a terrible start for Lee (a quality start, if you buy into that sort of thing), but it still wasn’t quite what you look for from the ace. He left with his team out in front, but only managed six innings. He struck out six, but walked two and allowed seven hits. Not vintage Cliff.

THE BULLPEN IMPLODES PER THEIR USUAL ROUTINE

Jake Diekman and his struggles with command were first out of the ‘pen for the Phils. What happens when a relief pitcher with control issues enters a game? Well, he walks the leadoff man of course. In this instance, the leadoff man would come around to tie the game (not surprisingly), and the Phillies four-run lead had completely disappeared. With one out in the seventh, Diekman was done. Unfortunately, the Nats weren’t.

– Zach Miner was next out of the bullpen door, asked to get out of a one-out jam with Jayson Werth at the plate. To that point, Miner had pitched pretty well in limited action, throwing 4.2 hitless innings. That changed on one pitch. Miner’s first offering to Werth was a flat slider, and it was crushed. The bomb gave the Nats a 6-4 lead, and that would be all she wrote for the Phils. There was no way a comeback was happening. Miner allowed two more runs just for good measure. Another day in the books for a bullpen that can’t seem to get anybody out.

DOMONIC BROWN IS YOUR SILVER LINING

– He’s young, he’s exciting, and he’s finally living up to the lofty expectations that once surrounded him. Domonic Brown hit his 26th home run of the season in the eighth inning, a solo shot that was the team’s only hit after the fourth inning. It was his second home run since returning from the DL. Guys, get excited about Brown. There’s not a whole lot to watch for at this point, but Brown has been a bright spot. He’s practically a shoo-in for 30 home runs, and is looking like a player to build around for the future. If nothing else, enjoy these last two months of Brown’s coming out campaign. To many more successful years.

UP NEXT

-The Phillies try to avoid a sweep tomorrow with an awkwardly scheduled 5:05 start time. Kyle Kendrick (10-8, 4.36) goes against Stephen Strasburg (5-9, 3.01).

– The Phillies are now 4-16 since the All Star Break. Pass the booze. They’ve lost ten straight on the road.

46 Comments

46 Comments

  1. Andrew from Waldorf

    August 10, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Was watching the Tigers Yankees today.

    They showed the Granderson trade. The tigers got Sherzer and Austin Jackson for Granderson.

    The Detroit announcers talking about how the GM put himself out there and it was not the safe play.

    Yes its called innovation. Thinking outside the box.

    The Phillies have a General Moron ( GM ) incapable of anything but signing the fan favorites forever for ridiculous amounts.

    It never changes.
    Looking forward to 2 more years. As each year the team gets worse.

    What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can’t reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don’t like it any more than you men.

    P.S. Ken E. Baseball if you can do a real Mets Phils magic number Id love that.

    Its disturbing to me to lose to them when they aren’t even trying and Wright is said to be done for the year now.

    2-1 Mets now

    • Ken Bland

      August 10, 2013 at 10:19 pm

      Magic numbers are traditionally the number of wins needed to assure you will have 1 more than the chase can claim by winning out.

      A real magic number, which is what was requested is the number of wins the leader needs to likely assure clinching over the chase.

      By the powers bestowed in me, as the keeper of the castle to make sure the accuracy of numbers are not abused, I now pronounce the Mets real magic number as 5. And Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler will each pitch 5 more times.

      Good night from 4th place. Deep in 4th place. Quicksanded in 4th place.

      • Andrew from Waldorf

        August 10, 2013 at 10:23 pm

        I know what magic numbers are.
        Was hoping youd humor me.

        Nice picture of Meadowlark Lemon.

        I will probably be too hung over tomorrow to care about the Phillies game.

        Since they will be 3 games behind the lowly mets in the loss column.

        You will have to man up and pick up my slack Ken Bland.
        You can do it.

        Stay golden pony boy

      • Ken Bland

        August 10, 2013 at 10:26 pm

        Kenny Durrett, and the greatness of LaSalle explorer basketball in conjunction with Larry Cannob, Roland Taylor, and Stan Woldarczick. Not Meadow.

        Must be on the way to Hangover City.

  2. Ken Bland

    August 10, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    What happens when a relief pitcher with control issues enters a game? Well, he walks the leadoff man of course.”

    Being as the leadoff guy being walked is a major pet peeve of mine, it flashes a red flagbefore my eyes when it happens. So I speak from the experience of being conscious of it, for whatever little that’s worth.

    Some guys do it, you have to extend a ;eash. That’s fine. I get that.

    But in the case of the Phillies in recent times, it’s not exclusively Jake, although he’s the poster guy for it.

    Buiy what I wanna see, just one time (though I might get greedy) is WHEN that happens, Charlie or Dubee get out to the mound and send a message. Pull the guy.

    You can’t tell me that it takes time for the next guy to warm up. A guy like Jake, and he’s not alone, you have to have his successor warming up before Jake even gets to the mound to throw his on field warmups becausethey’ve had so few relievers of late that have produced.

    Send a message. Even though it’s helpfulness is highly questionable.

    • wbramh

      August 12, 2013 at 9:42 am

      One of my leading pet peeves, too.
      Right up there with dogging it to first on a ground ball and telegraphing a bunt.

  3. Scooter

    August 10, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    10-in-a-row and the worst second half start ever. This is getting re-goddamndiculous.

    During the playoff push in ’09, I remember walking around Center City with my cousin. Seeing red everywhere, draped on everything, taped up in every window, and feeling how switched on the entire town was, I wondered aloud to him how the ownership of the Phillies could ever have allowed their us to languish through the miserable late 80s and early 90s. Why the Randy Ready and Von Hayes years? Why the endless games of my youth to the empty Vet Stadium? Why the seeming indifference on the part of the ownership of a club that was so clearly a potential cash cow? What kind of idiots, I asked, could have been stupid enough to waste the energy and excitement and revenue and merchandising and lifelong loyalty that great baseball means in a town as devoted to sport at Philly. How could that have ever happened?

    And now I have my answer.

    • Andrew from Waldorf

      August 10, 2013 at 10:36 pm

      There comes a time when the fan base needs to say enough is enough. I have for a long time said Cubs fans are stupid for supporting a lovable loser. It is not acceptable. At least not to me. Cubs fans accept losing so the Cubs management delivers them a loser every year. They laugh it off. As long as Amaro is GM ( General Moron ) do they want fans to come out? Does the orginazation want to win? Its all baffling to me. They are paying Rollins Howard and Utley over 50 million a year the next 2 years. They have 120 RBI combined this year. About the same as Cabrera or Chris Davis. How can amaro survive this season into next? And if he does is management caring about winning?

  4. Double Trouble Del

    August 10, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Diekman is pathetic. He does not have the concentration to be a big league pitcher. That goes the same for his step-brother DeFratus. They are career minor leaguers. Zach Miner is a career journeyman as well.

  5. Double Trouble Del

    August 10, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    No amount of TV money can buy forethought, perceptiveness and creativity. Amaro has single handedly f’ed up this organization top to bottom. He needs to depart for the hills of Paolo Alto check back into Stanford, if they’ll let him, and take some Six Sigma courses in how to run a major league ball club.

    • wbramh

      August 12, 2013 at 10:14 am

      If the current Sixers management miraculously turns around their own team within two years, I’d hire them as consultants across the street.
      Otherwise, pay the Sixers to take Ruben.
      In the absence of any serious takers, hire him as their new head coach.
      Can’t hurt.

  6. schmenkman

    August 10, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    #embracethetank

    Now that they’re out of it, every loss helps the chances of a protected draft pick. They’re tied for 8th worst record, and the first ten picks are protected when signing a free agent (as well as being better picks). Need to see whether Halladay can pitch again, but Howard can wait until March.

  7. Andrew from Waldorf

    August 10, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    I will never ever hope the team loses games.

    this also isn’t the NFL.

    Lets see when the last time the 8th pick is helping in 2013?

    List of 8ths overall picks in MLB draft

    2013 Hunter Dozier
    2012 Mark Appel
    2011 Francisco Lindor
    2010 Delino Deshields jr
    2009 Mike Leake
    2008 Gordan Beckham
    2007 Casey Weathers

    Maybe in 5 years or so the 8th pick might help.

    Regardless not worth losing like this.

    • schmenkman

      August 10, 2013 at 11:26 pm

      Yeah, I’d still rather win every time. But at least there’s a bright side to losing.

      • Ryne Duren

        August 11, 2013 at 12:36 am

        Schmenkman my bright is the fact that after this game we’re one game closer to the end of the season.

  8. Andrew from Waldorf

    August 10, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    Ah I get you Schenkman.

    Eternal optimist.

    Always enjoy your opinions and take on things.

    Not trying to be mean at all.

    You could make the point that standing on the deck of the Titanic you got to hear that great band play some music.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02187/titanicbandplayedo_2187023b.jpg

    The Mets won again.
    🙁

  9. George

    August 11, 2013 at 1:06 am

    I don’t blame Amaro for all the bad signings, I blame the scouting department. I DO blame Amaro for not firing some of the fools that think relief pitchers need only to throw hard and that hitting is the only needed skill, and that players like Martinez, McDonald, D. Young, and others can help a team. Somebody has to be giving Ruben bad advice, and those are the first ones who need to go. If Amaro can’t tell that the reports he’s getting on players are plain horrible, then he needs to be replaced with someone who does see the stupidity of thinking a Diekman or an Aumont can ever get the ball over the plate or that a D. Young can ever catch a baseball that isn’t just handed to him. No wonder he reads the backs of baseball cards. At least there’s some evidence of track records there; records which some of his idiot scouts probably wouldn’t see in a live ballgame.

    • Carlos Danger

      August 11, 2013 at 12:16 pm

      There’s no business or organization that functions like that. In reality, RAJ is responsible for everyone who reports to him – which includes the scouting department. I agree that the scouting department seems like a huge weakness (just look at a team like the Cardinals who are constantly promoting from within the organization) – but the blame falls on Amaro. If the department needs to be revamped, it’s up to him to make the changes. If he’s getting “bad advice”, it’s up to him to find people capable of giving him “good advice”.

      • hk

        August 11, 2013 at 12:32 pm

        I agree with you. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the GM. In addition to having better people reporting to him, he should also embrace advanced statistics instead of mocking them. Maybe if he’d grasp the value of the walk and target players with higher OBP’s, he wouldn’t end up with a team full of hitters who don’t walk and a bullpen full of pitchers who walk too many. Now, I’m not suggesting that sabermetrics is some be-all and end-all to building a team, but understanding the correlation between certain statistics (e.g. OBP) and team run scoring might help him avoid signing low OBP guys like Laynce Nix or Delmon Young in the future, even if his scouts suggest them. This understanding might help supplement the information provided by the scouts and allow the GM to make better decisions.

      • George

        August 11, 2013 at 1:32 pm

        I’m constantly surprised at people’s lack of attention. I SAID I blame Amaro for not firing some of the people making recommendations to him. I also said that if he can’t figure out his scouts are making bad reports, then HE needs to be replaced.

        I think even an idiot could see by those two statements that I believe it’s still ultimately on Amaro. There’s also not an organization around whose GM is the sole evaluator of talent; that was my point, in case you missed it.

        Some people are just way to eager to read only what they want to read and launch debates over what they’ve failed to comprehend.

      • c. schreiber

        August 11, 2013 at 4:01 pm

        Wiener!!!!!

      • Hogey's Role

        August 11, 2013 at 9:42 pm

        Funny how you’re quick to jump on someone else’s case about belittling another member or insinuating someone else’s lack of intelligence but it’s ok if you do it George??

        You’re a joke

      • hk

        August 12, 2013 at 7:31 am

        George: “I don’t blame Amaro for all the bad signings.”
        Carlos Danger: “the blame falls on Amaro.”

        It seems that Carlos comprehended what you wrote and he disagreed with it. I, like Carlos, think that some of the scouts may suck, but that Amaro should be blamed for every bad signing and be credited for the good ones. If he got bad information because he hired the wrong people, that’s on him. If he got bad information and did not have enough knowledge to override it, that’s on him. If he decided he wanted a certain player despite what the scouts said, that’s on him. For example:

        Back in March, many fans and bloggers predicted that Delmon Young was highly unlikely to help the team and very likely to hurt it, predictions by the way that were based on the back of his baseball card or stats that are readily available on fangraphs.com or baseball-reference.com. Why didn’t Rube recognize this? If you read David Murphy’s article today, Murphy claims that the team used 7-year old scouting reports, not Delmon’s MLB results, as one of the justifications for signing him. If Murphy is right – and he better be to put that into print – the GM’s process, not the scouting reports, are the problem.

        Laynce Nix, Ty Wigginton, Chad Durbin are other similar cases where he signed or traded for bad and/or declining players whose baseball cards should have been enough to tell him to avoid (or in the case of Nix not sign for two guaranteed years).

        MIchael Martinez is another case. If a scout told RAJ that Martinez is worth drafting in the Rule V, $50K and the opportunity cost of passing on other players is on the scout, but that Mini’s been kept around for three different seasons and a .504 OPS is on the GM.

      • hk

        August 12, 2013 at 7:50 am

        One more thing. Amaro’s biggest failing is not his (and the rest of the front office’s) failure to evaluate talent at the fringes of the roster, it’s his poor contract negotiation that put the Phils in the position in which they had to acquire and give playing time to the Delmon Youngs, Laynce Nixes and Michael Martinezes of the world. Following is a list off the top of my head of players who they paid more in dollars and/or years the market seemed to indicate was appropriate:

        Jamie Moyer – two years to a 45 year old.
        Raul Ibanez – three years when every other corner OF on the market got 1 or 2.
        Laynce Nix – 2 years to a guy who I believe had never had a guaranteed contract.
        Ryan Howard – an extension for his age 32 to 36 seasons, given during his age 30 season and paying him like they expected him to continue producing like he did in his age 26 to 29 seasons.
        Jon Papelbon – 4 or 5 years at ~$13M per year when the rest of the industry was realizing that you don’t commit more than 2 years or $9M to a closer unless his name is Mariano Rivera. The fact that he rushed to the market to overpay Papelbon and cost the team its 1st round pick is only the icing on the cake.
        Mike Adams – 2 years at $6M for a set-up man when teams like Boston were signing comparable players like Koji Uehara for 1 year and $4.5M.
        Danys Baez – 2 years to a stiff.

        If he had negotiated better deals with all of these players, they wouldn’t have had to acquire the aforementioned stiffs.

      • schmenkman

        August 12, 2013 at 8:22 am

        hk, agreed on the 2-year deal for Nix, but none of Nix, Wiggy, or Durbin performed like what their baseball card said they would…

        Looking at what they did in the 3 years before signing, vs. their time with the Phils:

        Nix .768 OPS vs. .601
        Wiggy .724 OPS vs. .688
        Durbin 4.18 ERA vs. 9.00

        Nix’s baseball card said he could hit a little — he couldn’t
        Wiggy’s baseball card also said he fielded multiple positions — he couldn’t
        Durbin’s said he was a decent pitcher — he wasn’t

        Now, advanced fielding metrics could tell you that while Wiggy could plant himself in a position, he was not a very good fielder. And Durbin’s defense-independent metrics would have told you that (aside from possibly 2008 and 2010 here) he never really was a decent pitcher. But I don’t know how much those were looked at, if at all.

      • hk

        August 12, 2013 at 9:19 am

        schmenkman,

        1. Nix put up a .727 OPS last year, which is in the realm of what you might have expected from a guy who had produced a .768 OPS the prior 3 seasons.

        2. Wigginton’s 2012 OPS is about what should have been expected when you factor in his age and that his 2011 stats were aided by playing half his games in Colorado.

        3. Durbin had a fluky (.251 BABIP, 81.6% strand rate) 2012, which helped his three year ERA be as low as it was (4.18). Bad luck (.404 BABIP and 59.9% strand rate) in the extremely small sample size of 16 innings led to the 9.00 ERA. You know better than to make any case about they Durbin signing by comparing his 3-year ERA to his ERA in 16 innings. If they were convinced that Durbin was a 4.18 ERA pitcher, they should have kept him around and let his performance revert to the mean.

        In one of my comments above, I referenced that they could have obtained a lot of information off the players in question solely by looking at the back of their baseball cards AND/OR on fangraphs.com or baseball-reference.com. Choosing to only use the back of the baseball card statistics, if that’s what they did, should be used as criticism, not a defense, of their process. At a minimum, it can be reasonably argued that their failure to use (or use effectively) advanced statistics is a major reason that the team is where it is despite having the 3rd highest payroll in the game.

      • schmenkman

        August 12, 2013 at 9:46 am

        hk,

        1. Nix: we need to either count 2013 (in which case Nix underperformed in his 2 years), or only count 2012, as you did (in which case it was an ok signing, made worse by the 2-year commitment).

        2. Agree on Wiggy’s offense, which is why I mentioned his defense.

        3. You might have skipped the last paragraph, where I mentioned that Durbin has never been a very good pitcher, and in effect agreed that it was a bad sign.

        For all of these, I was comparing what I would expect RAJ is looking at for the 3 years prior with what he got from them, without relying on advanced stats (for Nix/Wig/Durb you only referenced baseball cards).

        And I completely agree with this….

        “At a minimum, it can be reasonably argued that their failure to use (or use effectively) advanced statistics is a major reason that the team is where it is despite having the 3rd highest payroll in the game.”

        Which is what I was trying to get to in my last paragraph:

        “Now, advanced fielding metrics could tell you that while Wiggy could plant himself in a position, he was not a very good fielder. And Durbin’s defense-independent metrics would have told you that (aside from possibly 2008 and 2010 here) he never really was a decent pitcher. But I don’t know how much those were looked at, if at all.”

    • George

      August 12, 2013 at 12:03 pm

      It’s pretty easy to disagree when one take’s a sentence out of context, hk. I still think it should bhe pretty evident from my statements that the responsiblity does fall on Amaro because he’s the one who should control the scouting staff.

      Basically, we’re not in disagreement on that. Whaqt we disagree ohn is that all the baqd decisions fall on Amaro; it’s as if people think he doesn’t get other people’s input. Bad input=bad signings.

      As far as paying too much out in years and dollars could, in fact probably is, heavily influenced by scouting reports, and the idea that those contracts have lead to grabbing up the Martinez.s, Wiggintons, and Nixes, is also open to debate. Many, many, teams have made budget signings with way more success, which, to me, is also indicative of bad scouting.

      If you would kindly reread my initial remarks, you will see that I’m not defending Amaro per se, but just indicating that he’s not the only one responsible. I’m also not defending him because I’ve also indicated that if he can’t tell by the team’s performance that he’s getting bad advice, then he needs to be replaced by someone who recognizes the fact.

      And to Hogey: pointing out that someone has missed something is not even close to insinuating that they lack intelligence. Maybe it indicates that they haven’t paid attention, but inattentiveness is rarely stupidity. Sometimes it is surprising, though, which is all I really said. And by the way: I have never called anyone a joke, as you seem so prone to doing. The pot has no right to call the kettle black.

      • hk

        August 12, 2013 at 1:27 pm

        George,

        I agree that we mostly agree and that I have not done a good job of explaining where we differ, so let me try….If it was my business, I would not allow those lower on the corporate ladder to be sacrificed as scape-goats first while the incompetent higher-up continued in his job. For example, if I owned this team, I would have cleaned house in early July, firing Ruben and whomever else I deemed responsible for the current state of the team, its payroll and the farm system.

        To me, firing scouts but not the person responsible for hiring them and for making the final decision after reading their reports on players would send the wrong message to the organization. It would be different if the team was doing well and most of the GM’s moves were panning out, but one scout was constantly making bad recommendations.

  10. Psujoe

    August 11, 2013 at 1:11 am

    Flyers played themselves out if Seth Jones down the stretch. Baseball is different, but get a top 5 pick and manage your money right and its all good. Combine the with new spending on international players is good. 40+ million and an IF of Ruff, Revere and Brown is a start.

    • loupossehl

      August 11, 2013 at 3:18 am

      Ruf-Revere-Brown is the new Luzinski-Maddox-McBride. There is hope there, but I’d rather see them in the OF than the IF.

      Come to think of it, given the decrepitude of the IF, maybe you’re right.

  11. Brooks

    August 11, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Watching this team its hard to remember how much fun it was –
    but what memories we have eh?

    • Lefty

      August 11, 2013 at 8:12 am

      Great point. So many cities have gone generations without those kinds of memories. It didn’t have to end so suddenly, if run better it could have been maintained. But I agree 100% that – at least we have those memories. Thank you Brooks for reminding me.

  12. Lefty

    August 11, 2013 at 8:36 am

    I just have one more thing to say about the Utley extension. Most of you may not like keeping the old guys around, I get it. Guys like Yasiel Puig, and Wil Myers and so many others bring an excitement to the game that is very desirable.

    I ask that you separate the Utley signing from the others, don’t lump it in with Rollins and Howard. Why? Because this one is different. This is a guy that STILL gives you so much offensive production from the one of (if not the ) the lowest offensive position in the game.

    By OPS-
    In the last seven days, Utley is number one among second baseman in production.
    Ahead of Cano, Carpenter, Kendrick, Hill, Zobrist and Phillips.

    In the last 30 games, Utley is number one among second baseman in production.
    Ahead of – well you get the idea.

    For the season, despite the injuries, only Cano is better, and only by .009 points. Kipnis and Utley are next and tied. If Utley continues on this pace, he will be the number one second baseman by the end of the year.

    And what makes this so remarkable is that he’s playing on a team that we would all agree STINKS offensively. All the rest of the guys I mentioned- Cano, Phillips, Hill, Kipnis, Carpenter, Kendrick and Zobrist all play in powerhouse lineups. They are aided by the players around them. It helps your stats when there is always a guy on base in front of you to knock in when you get a hit- Utley does not have that luxury. It aids the stats when you can score a lot of runs because you have a bunch of run producers behind you.

    Chase Utley on a poor offensive team nearly leads all second basemen without the benefit of a good hitting lineup around him. No protection ( if you believe in that sort of thing) and no table setters.

    In my opinion, for the contract terms as I understand them, the Phillies got a STEAL. I’ll step down from my soap box now.

    • George

      August 11, 2013 at 1:50 pm

      I think there are a lot of people who look at signings from a limited viewpoint. Age is clearly not the only thing that needs to be looked at.

      There are, besides production, other factors, such as whether anyone else can better fill a certain position, what kind of salary and contract length a player might be gotten for, trade value, if production can be made up for in a different lineup spot if a player’s defense and baserunning warrants him still playing, fan response, clubhouse presence, and probably other things I’m too lazy to think of.

      Utley, to me, was a good extension. He’s still productive, he’d be hard to replace with anyone out there, he’s still very popular, he still has trade value, and his new contract is very reasonable in terms of both cost and years.

      • Andrew from Waldorf

        August 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm

        My only point is that even without the 50 million for Howard Rollins and Utley for 2014 and 2015 the team could have sucked in 2012 2013 2014 and 2015 with other people.

        But I get it some of the fans like losing with guys who were good in the middle of the last decade. I am actually fine with that.

        The issue is we have General Moron (GM) who is running the team like these people.

        That is not acceptable.

      • Ken Bland

        August 11, 2013 at 4:53 pm

        Keep your poise, Andrew, the chances are alive and well that it gets worse still.

        Wait and see what happens with Doc. That could go either way, I guess, but it’s easy to see Ruben rewarding loyalty and character to still another player. He made 20, and could have made more, so what’s to stop Rube from 2 at 10-15 with options and the like.

        You couldn’t have traded Doc, but with Chase, you could have tested the waters and seen what you might have gotten for him rather than just extending because Chase wanted to.

        Doc’s nuts, anyway. He said he likes some of the young talent here. Fortunately, for his sake, nobody said who do you mean. Nobody said are they that much better than the young talent around the division? If he pitches well, he’ll have choices. Probably a lot more than Cliff, who carries a huge obligation. But the bottom line is so much age carries injury risk. And that’s where your warnings are more on track than not. Not to mention the almost inevitable talent slippage as another year tacks on.

        But their a good group of guys to wacth, so there’s a tad of consolation. Some of them, anyway. I don’t even know how much Cliff has left. He’s still pitching well, but will he for another 2 years? Time will tell.

    • wbramh

      August 12, 2013 at 11:15 am

      Lefty:
      Please feel free to remain on your soapbox when lauding Chase Utley.
      He really can’t be lumped in with other mid-thirtys player.
      The man is still an exceptional talent and ultimate pro in every aspect of the game.

      There have been a number of players over the years who remained productive even into their 40s – and a handful even beyond.
      Stan Musial hit 3 home runs in one game at age 41 and hit .330 at age 42!
      Hoyt Wilhelm retired 49, Phil Niekro about 48 and who can forget Satchel throwing a major league pitch at age 59. Position players Minnie Minoso rand Julio Franco retired at ages 54 and 49, respectively.

      Yeah, Chase’s knees remain a time bomb but the man could probably crawl around the bases smarter most players today can run them.

  13. Brooks

    August 11, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Utley is certainly not part of the problem. His part of the equation for winning is not nearly what it used to be but he needs to be in the lineup. Good signing.

  14. Bart Shart

    August 11, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I can think of only one reason why my Phillies are tanking: THEY STINK !!!

  15. Double Trouble Del

    August 11, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Josh Willingham is coming off an injury and may be available in August. Would you take Willingham for 7mil on the last year of his deal?

    • Ryne Duren

      August 11, 2013 at 12:27 pm

      DDD don’t you want to get younger? If we took Willingham who’s place doe’s he take? Unless they get rid of M young so Ruff can move to first then what? more confusion for Ruf. They should leave it alone and let him play a position to get better at it . He’ll most likely give you the same numbers that an aging Willingham will give you. And he’s much younger. Josh will be down turning like our current core. Do you want more of that?

    • Ken Bland

      August 11, 2013 at 12:45 pm

      I can’t believe he’s going to clear American League waivers and even reach the NL to get to a point where he’s tradable. He serves too much purpose for the last month for a playoff contender looking to get some good at bats out of a corner guy.

      But if he does clear waivers, it comes down to who’s got what to trade. That’s a Phillie shortcoming for the most part.

    • George

      August 11, 2013 at 1:54 pm

      You don’t rebuild by trading up-and-coming players for a mid-thirties guy on his way out.

  16. Ken Bland

    August 11, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    I can’t wait until Senor Papelbon gets hius hands on the fact that Mo Rivera has now blown 3 straight saves and in a sense, compares himself to Rivera. That oughta go over real well with the anti Papelbon crowd. Real well.

  17. Mike in NJ

    August 12, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    To me, the worst part of that game was the 6th and 7th innings where Phils batter made 6 outs on 12 pitches. Does effin no one on this team work a damn count?!?!?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Phillies Nation has been bringing Phillies fans together since 2004 with non-stop news, analysis, trade rumors, trips, t-shirts, and other fun stuff!

Browse the Archives

Browse by Category

Copyright Phillies Nation, LLC 2004-2016
Not Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia Phillies

To Top