Gameday: Phillies (71-83) vs. Mets (70-84) – Phillies Nation
2013 Gameday

Gameday: Phillies (71-83) vs. Mets (70-84)

new-york-mets-alternate-logo-2-primary_display_imagePhiladelphia Phillies (71-83) vs New York Mets (70-84)

Cliff Lee (14-6, 2.95) vs. Carlos Torress (3-5, 3.39)

Time: 1:35Citizens Bank Park
PHL 17
Weather: Mostly Sunny, 70’s
Media: Twitter and Facebook

It’s the last home game of the season: fan appreciation day!  Fans might not appreciate the 2013 Phillies club that much compared to the teams in recent years, but one thing they can appreciate is today’s starter, Cliff Lee.  Lee has been unbelievable this season, as his ERA has dropped below three.  Lee has made the season bearable, with his impressive starts every five days.  Yes, he did have a rough patch during the mid-summer months, but he has truly been unstoppable as of late.  It’s a shame Lee is having such a magnificent year while the rest of the team struggles, but the fans will take any positive they can get at this point.

Soak it in: after today there will be no baseball played at Citizens Bank Park until 2014.

Go Phillies!




  1. Ken Bland

    September 22, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    One run in the 6th is a little disappointing, but there was at least 1 at bat that stood out.

    Ruf walked with 2nd and 3rd to set up bases loaded, and Asche and Frandsen starting with 1 out.

    Was Ruf’s walk a good thing? Yesterday’s look at the digits pointed to very poor small quantity that it is of Ruf’s at bats with men on contributing to a low rbi total. That his OBP is still quite good in those scenarios is great, and there is zero wrong with his walks supplementing the total.

    Saying there’s zero wrong with it might be a little overstated because you’re in the lineup in a ribbie opportunity spot, you can’t totally live off walks. So you take it, the walk’s a good thing, but you can’t get too happy with the walk too often.

    • c. schreiber

      September 22, 2013 at 11:30 pm

      Are you drunk!! If he was swinging at ball fours and striking out, what would you be saying then. This BS about his RBI totals is ludicrist. He’s got 14 dingers and his RBI total don’t meet your expectations!!! Did you think maybe, just maybe, the people batting in front of him don’t get on base enough? This kid Ruf is an excellent player and should have been on team coming out of Clearwater and platooning with the “Big KO, err Piece”. Next year he should be in lineup everyday and playing first versus lefties with another outfielder (not known yet) playing with the “Big Dope, err Piece” on the pine.

      • Ken Bland

        September 23, 2013 at 10:27 am

        You took a comment that was written as a stand alone and reacted to it in fair fashion as it stood. Can’t complain about that. Shame you chose not to stay on the particular intended subject, but it’s not like the point was really much for discussion anyway, or I was attempting to induce conversation.. But heaven knows why, here’s clarification.

        Ruf came up in a RISP situation Friday night with 14 shots and 26 ribs by his name as he stepped to the plate.. It’s inarguable that that is a ratio that catches one’s attention. It ain’t good. First thing it did to me was make me wonder how that ratio compared with other odd HR/RBI ratios historically. Untypical first reaction, but the next day I looked at Ruf’s numbers themselves. The fact that rbi is a team dependent stat is completely besides the point. You wanna throw it in, that’s fine even though it has zero to do with what I was thinking. I’m thinking for such a poor ratio, where In D Ruf’s results is the connection. And it’s a small quantity of at bats, so it’s a limited deal , but the fact is that he’s hitting for a poor average with men on. So sue me for being curious just how poor an average he’s hit for in that situation.

        But in the first message I wrote, I pointed out his OBP in those situations was strong, and that was good.

        Where I got in trouble was locating the point you responded to by suggesting a guy in certain situations has to be aggressive and think more than walk. Ask 10 accomplished big leaguers how good a walk is with 2 on, and your close to, or in the middle of the order, you probably don’t get unanimity on always take the walk, or expand the strike zone and think drive in runs. With Asche and Fransden next, which I consider good as a general rule, there’s nothing wrong with the walk. Unfortunately, Cody looked at a K on a picth he thought was a ball, and Fransdsen at least hit the ball, thus challenging the defense, so they didn’t score, so it prompted the had Ruf swung aggressively, maybe something more might have developed. But it’s not about retrospect, it’s about real time, and in that sense, to my own opinion, he did well to walk. If say Rupp (just because of inexperience, not ability) and Martinez were 7 and 8, then maybe it’s better to think hit the ball and take your chancres on striking out, so the comment seems poorly placed, and your overall reaction wasn’t unfair.

        That you took liberties and decided to defend Ruf is your business. I wasn’t commenting on that, or criticizing the guy at all. I’m not even criticizing his BA in that scenario. I’m more pointing out that’s why his ratio, which is what it is, and doesn’t need defenses like half a season is in anomle territory because the hits haven’t dropped for him. Even if he is striking out a lot in those deals, that’s deeper than I got into it. And I made zero point about the tangents you ran off on, which were no crime, but if you thought I was criticizing Ruf, you missed the point. Too bad you loused up fair criticism off the poor location of the thought with a stupid lead question. But at least I got a new word out of your message. Ludicrist is a good addition to my all important words I can typo my way through and leave ’em wondering how I’ll do in the next World Wide leader spelling bee.

  2. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    50 million for Rollins Utley and Howard
    the next 2 years

    extend manager for 4 years

    The mets aren’t trying

    They traded byrd and Dickey and anyone else approaching major league status.

    They dont want to win

    Do any of the idiots who were for all the long term deals and signings understand the Mets are better?

    I don’t care anymore.

    Phillies fans need to understand how bad they are.

    Understand Ruben Amaro is doing this.

    Heaven forbid the Mets give effort next year.

  3. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    How does Amaro accept a paycheck?

    Does he have any pride?

    Just quit man

    Walk out and leave today.

    Do not wait for the off season.

    Do you have any pride????

    Id like to thank you for the honor of watching Jimmy Rollins pop up 1000 plus times.

    As an old man.

    You have no pride or you would quit.

    I have less respect for you than before.

  4. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    The Mets are starting Dice K and Harrang vs the Reds.

    You are tied with them.

    You have the 3rd highest pay roll.
    Rick Ankiel was a part of this team.

    If Amaro is GM next year I don’t think I can get the package or follow this team.


    That’s your level Ruben.

    Worse than a Mets team with less than 25 million in salary tied up for 2014.

    Just quit

    If I was bagging groceries at safeway and every bag broke or I dropped everything every time.
    Id quit.

    Does the man have any pride?

    If I was a school crossing guard and every day school kids got run over.
    Id quit.

    Just retire right now please.

    I am begging.

    I want to follow this team.

  5. Ken Bland

    September 22, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    If I was bagging groceries at safeway and every bag broke or I dropped everything every time. Id quit.

    What about if you had the same bagging average at Acme? Would you walk there?

    Like if Rube were GM of the Mets, he’d probably walk. He just sticks here to annoy you. But you’re dealing with it well. Cain’t let your enemies get to ya.

  6. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    If I was a bus driver and every day I left the house and drove the bus into a brick wall.

    Id stop driving the bus.

    Please Ruben.

    Just stop.

    If I was a mall Santa Claus and every kid I dropped on the floor.
    Id retire.

    How can accept pay? How does someone pay him?

    Is there anyone in any job worse than Amaro?

    Any level any position.

    If Amaro is still here.

    I will have to think its intentional.
    They want to be worse than the Mets

  7. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    I have always thought Cubs fans are morons.

    Lovable losers.

    Every year they turn out to watch a horrible product.

    They accept it.

    The team and the record are moot.

    Any person who supports this team moving forward with Amaro as the GM.

    Is the level of a Cubs fan.

    If you support the Phillies with Ruben as GM you are a moron.

  8. Ken Bland

    September 22, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Fair amount of empties behind the plate considering the drama of Jimmy going for 200, or popping out to end the home season is on deck. Even in a dull year, hardly a dull moment. If we ever freaking get there.

  9. teejvee

    September 22, 2013 at 4:35 pm


  10. Andrew From Waldorf

    September 22, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    And I retire.

    I urge all fans to not buy tickets or merchandise or support a team that employs Ruben Amaro.

    The Mets are openly tanking.

    Not even pretending not to.

    With the 2 game lead and 10 to go and 3 at home with Lee going today.

    I didn’t think this was possible.

    Ruben how or why would you accept payment as the general manager?

    AFW out

  11. schmenkman

    September 22, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    With the loss, the Phillies move into a tie (with the Mets and Blue Jays) for the last protected draft pick:

    8) COL 71-85 thru Sat. losing 7-1
    9) NYM 71-84
    9) PHI 71-84
    9) TOR 71-84
    12) SFG 72-84
    13) SDP 72-82 thru Sat.

  12. George

    September 23, 2013 at 10:19 am

    From what I’ve read, the great free agents this year are few and far between, so I don’t think it matters much about that protected draft pick. If the Lincecums and Beltrans receive qualifying offers they can just stick with their current teams. I wouldn’t even cough up a second rounder for a 37 year old outfielder with slipping defensive skills or a pitcher who’s been far, far, from being an ace the past two seasons. And the few guys who might deserve those offers, like McCann, Cano, and Choo will want so many years and dollars that the cost would be untenable with or without a draft pick.

    • schmenkman

      September 23, 2013 at 10:29 am

      I might be more amenable to Beltran or Lincecum, but point taken. However regardless of what we might want, the FO may see a FA who’s received a qualifying offer as one part of fielding a contender over the next two to three years, and I would prefer that they have the freedom to go in that direction without jeopardizing the first round pick, which will be around 9-10 overall.

    • hk

      September 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm

      The great unknown in this is what receiving and declining a qualifying offer may do to one (or more) free agent’s asking price. Last year, Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher both received less than what most pundits predicted they would get at the outset of the off-season, in large part because no team wanted to give up a 1st round pick to sign either of them. That enabled Cleveland to sign both of them to (again, according to the pundits) below market value deals without squandering their 1st round pick. I believe that Choo would be a good fit for the Phillies at the right price. If Cincy makes a qualifying offer that he rejects, his price – like Bourn’s and Swisher’s – might become low enough that he’s worth signing.

      • Lefty

        September 23, 2013 at 1:29 pm

        In looking over this years crop of FA’s , Choo’s the only one I would like to see them pursue. I hope his price is not too high, but I fear it may be. It’s hard to downplay a .423 OBP, which is 4th best behind only Cabrera, Trout, and Votto.

  13. Ken Bland

    September 23, 2013 at 11:00 am

    David Murphy had what I thought contained an uplifting opinion in the DN. He discussed Phillie players odds to make the Hall. Listed at 20-1, hardly favorable odds was Cliff Lee. I can remember a similar discussion somewhere around 2-3 years back, and the responses on the message board centered around Doc, Utley and Rollins. Howrd had slipped enough that he didn’t get a great deal of conversation, but Lee got even less.

    Cliff’s late start age wise with success just never really drew you to thinking of him as a Hall guy. At least off the initial impression. And his career win total certainly didn’t jump out enough to think of him too favorably.

    But consistency, forgetting the occasional here a hit, there a hit, everywhere a base hit that are part of his resume that offset a lot of near perfection, Murphy actually gives him a shot with a couple more typical Cliff years, although he worded it differently.

    It’s always been in my mind that Cliff meets one of the many, many criteria discussed. He’s been a dominant pitcher for multiple seasons. Two more would basically give him 8, although admittedly, you had to focus to consider last year’s facets where he dominated in an overall non attention grabbing year. He’s had enough post season headline success that helps, and his placing in the CY has been, and would reflect on his dominance if that criteria were used.
    Todd Helton will most likely inspire some degree of controversy in 5 years, but one thing that won’t help him is not having finished above 5th in MVP voting (if I remember from looking at it a couple weeks ago). Cliff has a 4th, 1st, 7th and 3rd so far. He should do pretty well this year
    (top 7?), and 2 more top 10 (closer to 5, hopefully) would figure to help. But unlike Doc, who you’d think could afford the weak stretch he’s in (Murph has him 10-1 to make it), Cliff’s gotta finish strong. And be patient. It’s hard to see him getting in early in the 15 year period. But it’d be awesome to see him at the podium.

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