Phillies Outright 4 Players Off 40-Man – Phillies Nation

Phillies Outright 4 Players Off 40-Man

Michael Martinez, Pete Orr, Zach Miner, and Mauricio Robles were outrighted off the Phillies 40-man roster. Each, however, has cleared through waivers, meaning there is still an opportunity to stick the the organization.

The 31-year old Martinez is the most notable of the group. Mini Mart as he’s come to be known, has played well in the minor leagues but has been unable to translate that success to the major leagues. With a .300 average at Triple A, Martinez gets promoted and just stops hitting, evident by his .187 average in the majors.

Martinez represents some of the odder moves made by Ruben Amaro Jr. A light hitting player who can man many positions, but not play any of them all that well. And he never made up for it with his bat. Players like Martinez can’t be on the roster long in 2014 if the Phillies hope to break through to the postseason once again.



  1. Hogey's Role

    October 3, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Kinda surprising with Robles but maybe he needs some more seasoning

  2. Andrew From Waldorf

    October 3, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Break through to the playoffs?


    I just want to finish ahead of the Mets who will once again be dreadful next year.
    But probably better than the Phillies.

    Amazing I come here every few days hoping Ruben is fired or the rumors of him leaving are there.

    And they aren’t.

    If hes here next year they don’t deserve to win. And they don’t deserve support.

  3. Joe

    October 3, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    Eh just dump Martinez already. Robles will be in AAA. Amaro is playing moneyball this year, cross your fingers. Red Sox and the a’s are proof it can work. The current a’s are a moneyball team and have more wins than the dodgers with only a $60 million budget. Also the Red Sox were in last place last year.

    • schmenkman

      October 3, 2013 at 6:55 pm

      His comments about using more analytics are all well and good, and you have to start somewhere, but other teams have had whole departments dedicated to that for years, so I wouldn’t expect too much change in the near term.

      • Lefty

        October 3, 2013 at 9:05 pm

        Do you think they’ll purchase the entire 2010 Topps set for the newly formed department to read? “/s” – Did I do that right?

      • schmenkman

        October 3, 2013 at 9:10 pm

        lol – yep, although you don’t need the quote marks around the /s

  4. jobangone

    October 3, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Whoever suggested the Phils select Martinez in the rule 5 draft should be banned from baseball!
    As for moneyball you do have to evaluate talent and they show no evidence of that ability.

  5. DavidE

    October 3, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    None of the moves was a big surprise. It was clear that Orr and Martinez were going to be released on age and performance considerations. I wasn’t sure about Robles and Miner.

    • c. schreiber

      October 3, 2013 at 10:21 pm

      Mini wasn’t released!! Some how RAJ is stockpiling him in AAA again. Is that real??? I’ve been saying all year he & Mini are an item (partners in S-X) and I believe it. There’s no other reason for him on the roster for these years. He keeps Mini around but craps on Ruf. What a jerk O–!!!

      • George

        October 3, 2013 at 11:49 pm

        The Mart WAS released, at least from the ML roster. There’s been no word yet (that I’ve heard, anyway) he’s been added somewhere else.

        As far as Ruf goes, after being basically filler he finally showed some ability (at a rather advanced age) in 2012, and was then put on the roster. I wouldn’t call that being “crapped on.” I’m surprised they stuck with a player like Ruf as long as they did; many teams would have cut him.

  6. DavidE

    October 3, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Regarding Moneyball, it should be said that the big reason that the 2002 Oakland Athletics were so successful was that they had Hudson, Zito and Mulder as starting pitchers and Tejada was at the top of his game. It wasn’t as if the As had nothing after they lost Giambi and Damon to free agency.

    I think interpretation of stats is important but you really have to see the players. The Phillies made a big mistake when they thought Delmon Young could play the outfield. I think they made a mistake when they thought Michael Young could play third base.

    • George

      October 4, 2013 at 12:17 am

      Everyone should pay attention to this post. I’ll add that the Sox also had some players they kept for 2013 who weren’t exactly chopped liver, like Pedroia and Ellsbury.

      Analysis is important, but I can’t fault the teams that look hard at the actual players, too, especially in the draft, because high school and college players haven’t really compiled any real stats against really tough competition.

      I think where moneyball pays is not so much in signing stars, but in finding those needed complimentary pieces; the bench bats, relief pitchers, platoon players (when a full time star can’t be had) and defensive replacements. I doubt if it’s quite as easy in the NL, though, because there’s no DH spot to hide a one-dimensional player in, a team has to have multiple pinch hitters, and they need enough across-the-board talent on the roster to be able to make viable double-switches more often. A player who can both hit and field will cost more of that miserly moneyball budget. An inexpensive old guy, like a Jim Thome, can’t always cut it on an NL squad.

  7. Mike

    October 3, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Some how, some way, Martinez will be back next year on the 40-man roster. With the team. On the field, Getting 50+ ABs.

    • schmenkman

      October 3, 2013 at 8:34 pm

      Agreed, and if it’s only 50 at bats (or 40 like this year), file under W for “Who cares”.

      • c. schreiber

        October 3, 2013 at 10:23 pm

        I and others who love the P’s CARE!!!!!

      • schmenkman

        October 3, 2013 at 10:25 pm

        Asked and answered.

      • wbramh

        October 3, 2013 at 11:50 pm

        Here’s my pledge to Phillies Nation.
        Should I win the Powerball I will pay Mini-Mart to take a desk job in Peoria.

        You’re welcome.

  8. George

    October 4, 2013 at 12:28 am

    Count me as one of the ones who files Mini under W for “who cares.” He was only used this year because of injuries and because better players needed full time at-bats and were attempting new positions. Now that Galvis and Hernandez seem more ready, and can play in more places, I doubt the Mart sees much time at all, if any.

    What would trouble me is that should Martinez play much for the Phils in 2013, it will be because multiple players have hit the DL. THAT’S the real problem with Minimart as a Phil, not his 40 possible ABs.

  9. bacardipr

    October 4, 2013 at 4:07 am

    I agree George i think Rube finally realizes that Mini isnt a MLB player.

    • Hogey's Role

      October 4, 2013 at 7:58 am

      I’m glad it didn’t take him too long to realize that lol

  10. schmenkman

    October 4, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Martinez finished the season with 40 plate appearance and an identical “triple slash line” (i.e. batting average, OBP, and slugging) of .175/.175/.175, because he didn’t have any of the extra base hits, walks, HBPs, and sac flies that would make OBP and slugging different from batting average.

    The last time a player did that in a season with more than 40 PAs was 35 years ago (Brian Doyle, 1978). Martinez had only the 3rd such season with 40+ PAs in the last 87 years.

    He also didn’t have any sacrifices (which aren’t used in calculating BA, OBP, or SLG). And the only other time in history a player had an identical triple slash and also no sacrifices, with 40+ PAs, was Joe DeMaestri on the 1961 Yankees, with 41. Complete list here:

    And more background on this silly statistical oddity here:

    One more final note about Michael Martinez:

    No Phillie, in the 131-year history of the team, has been a worse hitter, AND gotten more plate appearances than MiniMart’s 396 over 3 years.

    John Vukovich was a worse hitter, but only batted 335 times in his Phillies career.

    • George

      October 4, 2013 at 10:59 am

      Well, someone had to take that “honor.” I wonder what the records are for players on other teams. Maybe Mini has a better average with fewer plate appearances than some other team’s slug. Amaro’s decision to keep him around so long wouldn’t look quite so bad if there’s a Met or a Dodger or a Cub who hung around for 397 trips to the plate, but only batted .122 or something.

      • schmenkman

        October 4, 2013 at 11:21 am

        Here is the list of worst hitters in history (by OPS+), who had at least 300 major league plate appearances:

        There is a slew of players who got 300-500 PAs before they wore out their welcome. Drew Butera is a recent example, although maybe he gets more leash for being a catcher:

        Martinez: .187/.234/.261 (.495 OPS, 35 OPS+) in 396 PAs
        Butera: .181/.229/.262 (.491 OPS, 36 OPS+) in 541 PAs

    • George

      October 4, 2013 at 4:10 pm

      Interesting list. I’m not sure this shows that Amaro shouldn’t have his sanity questioned for keeping Martinez around for so long, though. It probably only indicates that at least 34 other GMs could possibly have benefited by being lobotomized, or that they already had been.

  11. MP

    October 4, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    To further your point re: Martinez and Butera: Take the list and sort it by the “To” year. There are five players who have 2013 stats on the list. The other four besides MM are at least part-time catchers.

    • c. schreiber

      October 5, 2013 at 12:33 am

      Check out who’s #196 on that list….Charlie Manuel…..I thought he was supposed to be a hitter??

      • schmenkman

        October 5, 2013 at 2:09 am

        No, I don’t think anyone ever said that. As I’m sure you know, most great hitting coaches were not very good major league hitters:

        Charley Lau: .683 OPS
        Walt Hriniak: .586 OPS

        Manuel at least became a legend in Japan, where he hit 48 homers 1980, the same season Schmidt was hitting 48 here. And then there was the prior year (from wikipedia)…

        “Playing for the Pacific League’s Kintetsu Buffaloes, Manuel hit 25 home runs in the first eight weeks of the 1979 season. He was on pace to break the Japanese record of 16 home runs in a month.

        At a game against the Lotte Orions on June 19, 1979, he was beaned by a pitch from Soroku Yagisawa, effectively stopping Manuel from taking that record. The pitch broke Manuel’s jaw in six places. He wore a dental bridge as a result of an earlier accident in the minor leagues. There was nothing for doctors to wire together, so they inserted three metal plates in his head and removed nerves from his face. Manuel was discharged from the hospital after six weeks and immediately began playing again, against the advice of doctors and worried family. The Buffaloes were struggling to stay in the Pacific League lead and had never won a pennant. To protect his jaw, Manuel wore a helmet equipped with a football facemask. He wore the helmet for the first few games but stopped using it because it obscured his vision at the plate. He finished the 1979 season with 37 home runs to win the home run title. He led Kintetsu to its first pennant win. He was voted the Most Valuable Player, the first American to receive the honor since 1964, hitting .324 with 37 home runs and 94 RBI.”

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