Hot Stove Updates: Brown, Camp, Pierzynski, Ruiz – Phillies Nation

Hot Stove Updates: Brown, Camp, Pierzynski, Ruiz

Amaro says that young talent is not available. Meanwhile, Jerry Crasnick says the Phillies are willing to listen on young talent Brown. Which is correct?

From around the league:

– Jerry Crasnick says that the Phillies are willing to listen on outfielder Domonic Brown but “a Bautista-Brown trade isn’t happening.”

– Meanwhile, Ruben Amaro tells Matt Gelb that the club is not inclined to trade any young talent, stating “Everybody is looking for the same thing, and that’s young controllable players. There is no reason for us to be moving any of them.”  Those two sentiments clash a bit, no?

– The Phillies signed 38-year old reliever Shawn Camp today to a minor league deal according to Jon Heyman. Camp led the NL in appearances in 2012 before posting a 7.04 ERA in just 26 games in 2013 with Chicago with a 1.870 WHIP.

– There is some buzz building about the Phillies being interested in left-handed hitting catcher A.J. Pierzynski. Pierzynski hit .272/.295/.427 with 17 home runs last season and will be 37 on Opening Day 2014.

– Finally, the Rockies have announced they are moving on from catcher Carlos Ruiz according to Ken Rosenthal. Ruiz apparently balked at a two year, $15 million offer from Colorado.



  1. Ken Bland

    November 13, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    I dunno about this 2/20 that the agent supposedly said he had on the table. Now, supposedly, the Rox have moved on (that’s not news, of course, it’s mentioned in the article, but the word supposedly sure as hell is new, and well advised in every sentence with ALL this stuff.

    Just seems like if you’re gonna offer 2/20, double the pay per, and presumabley for 2 yearsI might add, each year, seems reasonable to say and the deadline is such and such and not drag it out. I pretty much talked myself out of thinking it was the Red Sox, an obvious guess, and having done that, it probably was, but that ain’t got no FDIC insurance addendumming it’s way as a footnote.

    I hope that if the supposed 2/20 was a negotiating ploy, which is kinda cold to suggest, Chooch still finds a good deal, and doesn’t get burned by it.

    This point, I just wonder what Chooch has in front of him, and who it’s from, and where the Phils are. Maybe Rube’s negotiating this one well (?). The law of averages says he has to make a good deal at some point. Or should I say another one after the huge Shawn Camp signing today. How much more awesome can it get than that?

  2. George

    November 13, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    “Not inclined” doesn’t clash at all with “willing to listen on Brown.” Amaro didn’t say he would never under any circumstances trade young talent. There are situations when trading youth is desireable. If you have two young shorstops, for example, you might trade one for a left fielder. If you can trade a player when he’s just had his best season and all your scouts think he’s not going to repeat it, it might be wise to trade him.

    As far as other things here, they might have to move on a catcher who isn’t named Ruiz, due to Ruiz’z high asking price. Pierzynski is one of the better catchers for the money, so naturally they’d be interested, even if only as a Plan C.

    The Camp signing is for minor league depth, the kind of move every team makes this time of year. He’s probably around to eat innings in spring training when the real pitchers are sore. There will be someone here, though, who will trash Amaro for making such a move. (Of course, I think there’d be someone here to trash Amaro if he donated most of his pay to the Red Cross.)

  3. Hogey's Role

    November 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Please stay away from a.j. Pierzynski

  4. bacardipr

    November 13, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    He wont Hogey Rube loves his old players the older the better.

    • schmenkman

      November 13, 2013 at 8:46 pm

      Revere, Asche, Brown, Bastardo, Diekman, Martin, De Fratus, Pettibone, and Hernandez probably disagree.

      • Hogey's Role

        November 13, 2013 at 10:51 pm

        Ruben might not love them though lol

      • George

        November 13, 2013 at 11:31 pm

        You forgot about Galvis and Rupp.

        I also wonder if those old guys he traded, released, or didn’t re-sign, like Durbin, Polanco, Pierre, and M. Young believe he loves his old players.

  5. Bruce

    November 14, 2013 at 12:18 am

    I have not been here for awhile until I read about Amaro’s signing of Marlon Byrd to a 2 yr contract totaling $32 million (plus incentives?). Wow! Granted he had an outstanding comeback year but at age 36 the 12 yr veteran may not be able to repeat his performance for the length of his contract. And the mega bucks for his contract is astonishing. Yet the Phillies management are reluctant to meet Carlos Ruiz’s desire to have his contract renewed that adequately compensate his worth. By the way, Ruiz was just voted as best defensive player for the Phillies.

    With Byrd on board, it raise the question on the future of Ruff, Mayberry Jr. and even Hernandez who has played briefly in the OF last season. I suspect Mayberry Jr. and Ruff will be fighting for the final position as a bench/role player during spring training. As far as Hernandez is concern, his future is on hold and probably going back to the minors for more seasoning.

    The aquisition of Byrd is further evidence that Amaro feels strongly the Phillies can contend in their division in 2014. I would feel better about that possibility if Amaro can find a legitimate quality starter or two for the rotation.

    • Keith

      November 14, 2013 at 7:49 am

      Byrd is guaranteed something like $16M. He would basically have to win the triple crown to get to a good bit of the incentives.

      • wbramh

        November 14, 2013 at 11:30 pm

        Byrd could never win the triple crown.
        He doesn’t have the legs for the Belmont.

    • Paul

      November 14, 2013 at 3:51 pm

      They definitely will have a battle in the outfield with Brown, Byrd, Revere, Mayberry Jr.,m and Ruff, not to mention the others. (Wells, Bernadina, Martinez, Hernandez)

  6. bacardipr

    November 14, 2013 at 1:31 am

    Durbin was awful and had to be let go. Even Rube realized that. Polly could never stay healthy for us. M. Young was more of a salary relief and since we where out of the playoffs no need to keep him.

    • George

      November 14, 2013 at 10:13 am

      You say “Even Rube realized that” as if he’s the stupidest man on Earth, which he isn’t. You also don’t get what I was indicating. Durbin was bad and Polanco couldn’t stay healthy, but still, they were old. Obviously people are too stupid to realize that Amaro doesn’t hang onto guys that are old simply because he “loves” them, which was my point. He keeps them if and only if they fill a need or if they have unmoveable contracts. I’m personally sick of such assinine statements about old vs. young when it’s absolutely obvious that if a player becomes useless, he’s gotten rid of if possible; it doesn’t matter if he’s young or old. (Delmon Young, for example, was dumped. He’s in his mid-twenties.) Most of the so-called “young talent” players everyone seems to think deserve to be in the majors haven’t exactly worked out, like Aumont, Ramirez, and Mayberry, and some of the late arrivals were late only because they took forever to be decent even in the minors, cases in point being Ruf and Kratz. Michael Young was only added in the first place because Asche and Franco weren’t ready, And Pierre wasn’t resigned partly because brass thought Brown had finally figured it out.

      Another thing I grow disgusted with are those people who say the Phils need youthful talent, then gripe about it when they add a young guy with upside, like Revere.

      • wbramh

        November 14, 2013 at 2:58 pm

        Points well taken but there is obviously a difference between “youthful” and “youthful talent.”

        I would argue that even Revere, a player with some talent and upside (and certainly a great kid is not a starting quality player (IMO).

        Revere may still improve in the field and as a base runner and hopefully maintain the batting average he attained before his season-ending injury but his total lack of power and terrible arm are not likely to change significantly with time. If he was hitting doubles and triples (or driving in men on second with outfield singles) he would be more valuable – at least off the bench if not as a starting fielder.

        You’re right about Ruben. He’s not stupid and I believe he cares about his job AND about the team. That said, he’s also been unwilling to change with the times. I think even Ruben would agree with that assessment. St. Louis began developing an entire sabermetrics department 8 years ago. It’s helped guide their decision-making on both the major and minor league level and it shows in real “young talent” and World Series rings. Likewise, Boston hired Bill James shortly before their long-awaited World Series successes.

        The Phillies have yet to hire a single person to statistics analyst to help turn this team into a winning 40-man squad. Gut feelings are important, but that should be the whipped cream on top of the pie.

      • Lefty

        November 14, 2013 at 10:50 pm

        George, Technically I could argue that they didn’t just “add” Revere. They subtracted Trevor May and the Vanimal to add Revere. To me it wasn’t a horrible trade, but two starting pitchers that may or may not make it, for Revere seems a high price. I like the kid even though I was on his case early in the year. He improved greatly as the year went along, and that’s all we can ask.

        But, in general I agree that RA Jr. is not stupid, just behind the times, as wbramh has pointed out with a sentiment I have making here for several years now. I get the feeling that the scouts work off of eye test only, and that’s just not good enough in today’s game. And you have to admit that both the pro and amateur scouts have done a pretty miserable job of late.

        IMO- Ruben’s worst attribute is his loyalty to the old guard and the belief that they will all somehow find the fountain of youth, along with his mentality that he can “catch lightning in a bottle” with fringe players that have shown flashes of talent over the years. Amaro has flaws, not unlike many of his peers, but he’s not stupid.

  7. betasigmadeltashag

    November 14, 2013 at 6:48 am

    I don’t see 2/20 million for Chooch is to much or even 2/24. And if Byrd reaches all his ensentives he will be worth it , but he won’t and he will be paid a lot less.
    Also if you think Brown is only going to be a C defender .260 18 hr guy with a decent OB% and OBS then wouldn’t you want to sell high this off season. But if you feel he will greatly improve defensively and be a ,275 30 HR guy for 5 years you keep him. I would not mind seeing them trade him but not for a guy like Jose B. maybe Stanton or Cepeda

  8. Jael

    November 14, 2013 at 8:41 am

    Now the red sox what ruiz.?.
    I what ruiz stay if the phillies .
    If ruiz say he what to stay there if the phillies GM need to sign him this week just sign him back to the phillies asp we need him no one is the best like ruiz

  9. Brian T

    November 14, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Bautista for Brown straight up? You’d have to be an idiot not to take that. Dom’s best season would be a down season for Joey Bats. You put Bautista in CBP and he could easily hit 40+ HR’s and drive in 100+ runs. As a Phillies fan, it’s not even a question if I’d take this trade.

    • schmenkman

      November 14, 2013 at 11:57 am

      Except that Brown is entering his prime, so chances are he will improve, while Bautista is coming out of it, so chances are he will continue declining. And Bautista will cost about $13 M more this year, and $10 M more next year.

      Also, while CBP helps lefty home run hitters (although not Howard), it doesn’t help righties. Over the past several years Rogers Centre has been more hitter-friendly than CBP, both in overall hitting/scoring, and for home runs in particular.

      • Hogey's Role

        November 14, 2013 at 12:13 pm

        As a phillies fan I look at this trade and say hell no!!

        That would benefit the blue jays no doubt

    • Brian Sr. of CO

      November 14, 2013 at 1:36 pm

      “an idiot not to take that”? Your real name would be Reuben Amaro III would it? Wow talk about a bad trade. It would be a typical Amaro trade though. Sure Bautista is a solid HR hitter, but have you noticed his numbers are on the decline? Sure he is a decent hitter, but overall negative career defender. Have you noticed his $14 MILLION a year Salary? Same reason his knickname is “Ruin Tomorrow Jr”. Well stated opinion by Mr Ruin Tomorrow III.

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