Landing Spots for Former Phils – Phillies Nation

Landing Spots for Former Phils

Quite a number of former Phils were involved in transactions this week. Here’s a snapshot of where some of these former Phils went or are going. Most notes courtesy of Matt Eddy at Baseball America.

– RHP Tyler Cloyd was designated for assignment yesterday by the Cleveland Indians. Cloyd, 26, had a 6.56 ERA in 60 1/3 innings pitched for the Phillies in 2013. If Cloyd clears waivers, he would join fellow former Phil Mike Zagurski, signed three days ago to a minor league deal, in Cleveland’s minor league ranks.

Ender Inciarte, a Phillie for Opening Day 2013 only, was added to the Arizona Diamondbacks 40-man roster. Inciarte, 23 for Opening Day 2014, hit .281/.327/.362 with a career-high five homers and a career-high 84.31% stolen base success (43 steals in 51 attempts) for Double-A Mobile as a 22-year old.

– Outfielder Casper Wells signed a minor league deal with the Cubs. Wells, 29, hit .126/.186/.147 across stops with five teams last season with no homers. Wells hit .042/.115/.083 with the Phillies before sitting out the rest of the year recovering from eye surgery.

– Catcher Ronny Paulino never played with the Phillies in a regular season game but did spend almost the entire 2009 Spring Training with the club. Paulino was traded to San Francisco on March 27, 2009 for reliever Jack Taschner. Paulino, now 32, signed with Detroit.

– Outfielder Domingo Santana, 21, was added to the Houston Astros 40-man roster. Santana was the player to be named later in the trade that sent Hunter Pence to the Phillies in 2011. Santana hit 25 homers in Double-A Corpus Christi with 12 steals in his age 20 season supporting a .252/.345/.498. Santana did struggle to avoid the strikeout, though, striking out 29% of the time in 2013.

– RHP Juan Sosa, 24, was signed by the Miami Marlins to a minor league deal. Sosa began his journey with the Phillies organization in 2007 as a seventeen year old but stalled out in Double-A Reading in 2013 (5.58 ERA, 1.676 WHIP).

– RHP Lisalverto Bonilla, 23, was added to the Texas Rangers’ 40-man roster after dominating the Texas League (AA) with a 0.30 ERA and a 0.824 WHIP. Bonilla struggled when promoted to Triple-A (7.95 ERA, 1.767 WHIP) in 2013 but the reliever dealt to Texas as part of the trade that brought Michael Young to Philly averaged nearly a strikeout and a half per inning pitched across the two levels last season.

– Catcher Steven Lerud was signed to a minor-league deal by the Atlanta Braves. Lerud, 29, appeared in nine games over the last two seasons for the Phillies and is a career .221/.314/.350 hitter in the Minor Leagues.



  1. FRAnj

    November 26, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Don’t give a crap about any of these guys.

    • wbramh

      November 26, 2013 at 11:30 am

      It doesn’t bother you that the Phils gave up on Sammy Sosa, Bobby Bonilla, Vernon Wells and Johan Santana in their prime?
      Wait a minute… never mind. Wrong guys.

      • hk

        November 26, 2013 at 12:14 pm

        It bothers me that the Phillies gave up Domingo Santana (in addition to Singleton, Cosart and Zeid) in the Hunter Pence fleecing.

      • Hogey's Role

        November 26, 2013 at 12:28 pm

        Agree with hk and I’ll throw Bonilla in there too

      • Brass Villanueva

        November 26, 2013 at 12:33 pm

        I remember all the Houston jokes at the time the Pence trade was made. Ed Wade got fleeced again! Houston was really the Phillies’ AAA affiliate! Ah, good times indeed. At least we ended up with Tommy Joseph. I guess.

        “The Phillies need a rebuilding specialist, someone who can recognize that this thing is over and it’s time to send everybody home; somebody who can stop throwing fourth-year options to 38-year-old catchers and start plowing ahead without trying to force a “win now” culture in a third-place clubhouse. Like Manuel, Amaro may have been right once, when it was hard to make the team go wrong, but in a more intricate, struggling environment, a new philosophy should be in place.”

      • wbramh

        November 26, 2013 at 4:31 pm

        HK: My bad jokes aside, yes, Domingo Santana could very well turn out to become the big, powerful and speedy right fielder that’s been sorely missing in the lineup.
        That would…what’s the word I’m looking for?… Suck!

      • wbramh

        November 26, 2013 at 4:54 pm

        Brass V: I agree that the Ruiz deal was a mistake.
        No matter how productive a player Chooch remains – even over four years, management has effectively taken away a trading chip with a real contender that could have easily bought the team a a couple of serious prospects. The Phillies (IMO) are not going anywhere next season – nor the following season or any season until management catches on to what it takes these days to reconstruct a contending franchise.

        Even Justin Klugh’s dire article was (accidentally) too generous. This is not a “third-place clubhouse,” it’s a fourth-place clubhouse:

        x-Atlanta 96 66
        Washington 86 76
        NY Mets 74 88
        Philadelphia 73 89

      • schmenkman

        November 26, 2013 at 5:29 pm

        wbramh – slight quibble: I don’t see any reason for calling Ruiz’s a 4-year deal. Since it’s a club option, they are no more committed to a 4th year than if they were considering him as a free agent at that point. I think a 4th year only happens if 1) he is still productive in year 3, and 2) they don’t have two other cheaper options.

        And it seems that they’ve actually retained the trading chip. His contract only blocks trades to 4 teams, and even those 4 may be negotiable with a kicker, as when MY came from Texas.

      • Double Trouble Del

        November 26, 2013 at 6:30 pm

        There is a business end to these signings that comments on this site and others tend to ignore or not consider, which is the need to actually put fans in the seats and sell advertising. Granted that attendance is down and perhaps it will continue to decline. There is a greater likelihood however, that a team of Utley, Ruiz Howard and Rollins will draw more than a team of Galvis, Rupp, Joseph or anyone else in the high minors. While I don’t have actual numbers in front of me, the likelihood of a team of Utley, Ruiz, Howard et al winning vs a team of 4A players winning is also probably better as well. Most of these contracts that burden us now will expire or require team options in 2016 which should be enough time to develop real talent in the minors.

      • wbramh

        November 26, 2013 at 8:51 pm

        Del: I don’t doubt that there’s a business decision involved in keeping their recognizable and popular stars, especially when there are so few young players to to soak up fan interest. The problem is they’re already down what – an astoundingly bad 7K per game or something close?
        If I were Ruben I’d either blow up the team ASAP and patiently and smartly collect quality top 100 farm system players straight up for veterans (and build a sabermetrics dept) or try to keep people in the their seats in the short run by signing a Tanaka or trading for Stanton. I think the team has deteriorated enough that one great player won’t guarantee a return to the post season. Plus, the Tanaka signing may be impossible due to the recent posting complication (although parties are working on it) s and the Marlins may want too much for Stanton but IMO that’s the only way the Phils can hope to keep attendance from taking another big dive in 2014. That won’t float too well with advertisers, either.

    • wbramh

      November 26, 2013 at 8:31 pm

      Schmenk: I understand what you’re saying and I think I worded my point very poorly.
      The reference to a 4th year for Ruiz was based on the possibility that he remains productive through the guaranteed 3-year deal plus the option year. But yes, you’re right in suggesting that even the 3-year guarantee is in no way written in stone assuming there are interested teams if and when they choose to move him before the end of the 3+ 1.

      But of course, my larger point was that they ideally should have traded trading Chooch while there was still a year on his contract but Chooch himself helped douse that option due to his suspension. Yes, signing him was necessary now for the obvious reason that he could have simply walked – plus, he was definitely the team’s best bet behind the plate for 2014. They would have gained little on the field and lost a lot of flexibility elsewhere by outspending the Yanks for McCann. If Ruiz has a Ruiz-type season in 2014 I believe management would be foolish not to trade off his last two years for a couple of young studs from another system. They have so few real trade options. Ryan’s not going anywhere unless he has a reasonable rebound year and another $25 mil are reduced from his outstanding contract. Then, some teams will have interest in him assuming the Phils eat some salary. Jimmy and Chase? I expect them to retire as Phillies. In other words, the team has little to sell but the few players who may warrant being part of their future – guys like Brown, Revere and Asche. The problem will be finding enough disposable players to pick off an occasional steal out of other organizations’ farm systems. There’s just not enough top talent in their own system to develop a future core comparable to Howard, Utley, Rolliins or Hamels.

  2. bacardipr

    November 26, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Ender shows some promise. At least enough to store in the minors. Probably better than what we currently have.

  3. wbramh

    November 27, 2013 at 4:02 am

    Here’s the thought for today…

    The 2013 pennant-winning St. Louis Cardinals have effectively replaced at least half their starting position players in the brief space of three weeks since the end of their successful season.

    In fact, only two of their starting position players (Holliday and Molina) from the beginning of last season will likely remain in their 2013 positions in 2014. Carpenter is schedule to move to third, Wong will take over second and Adams will permanently move from first to right (a position he actually took over in September). The demoted Jay and Kosma will become bench depth while top MLB prospect, 21-year-old Oscar Tavaras, waits in the wings to beat somebody out for a starting outfield position next Spring. As Mozeliak put it, “One of our tenets is to give opportunities to players that have shown they’ve accomplished everything they need to in the minor leagues.” That tenet appears to be working well for the team, particularly on the pitcher’s mound. There are no 26-year-old St. Louis rookies still trying to master the basics of their positions.

    These are the bold off-season moves you’d expect from a fourth-place finisher in their division and not from a pennant winner, yet thanks to their relentless and rapid moves, the Cardinals are now an even more powerful team – and their payroll will likely go down!

    Contrast the Cardinals’ moves with those of the Phillies this Fall and you can’t help but appreciate the scope of the problem, here – and it’s not just a problem on the field.

    • Lefty

      November 27, 2013 at 6:47 am

      I get your point, and agree, the problem here is not good.

      But I just wanted to mention that although Mozeliak is a very good GM, he is far from perfect. You forgot to mention that he just signed a 32 year old (in May) shortstop that just completed a 50 game suspension for PED usage to a FOUR year 52 million dollar deal.

      As a general rule players that have spent much (if not all) of their career using performance enhancers do not get better when they are off the juice, and should not be rewarded with such risky long term deals until they can prove they can play without the juice. IMO- I wouldn’t have given this guy more than a Spring training invite until he proves himself. This one could easily blow up in Mozeliak’s face. In fact I hope it does, not because I dislike him, but because I hate juicers.

      • hk

        November 27, 2013 at 7:26 am


        Is that “general rule” corroborated with evidence that’s something other than anecdotal? I have heard claims that this is true, but I have never seen any actual studies that it is. Run scoring is down across baseball over the past 5 years or so, but that can be attributed to any number of reasons. In fact, Bill Baer addressed them today in an article about Ryan Howard on Crashburn Alley.

        All PED’s are not created equal. Without knowing what Peralta used, when he used it and for how long he used it, it’s impossible for me to know how to factor his PED use into my expectations for him. If the Phillies did not have a SS and looked to be legitimate contenders for the next few years (like STL), I would have had no problem with them signing Peralta. I have actually come around to accepting the Phils signing of former PED user Marlon Byrd, who by the way was much better in 2013 (after his PED suspension) than he was in 2011 and 2012.

      • Chuck A.

        November 27, 2013 at 7:49 am

        I a agree… I would also have no problem with signing Peralta if the need was there. My gut tells me that he will at least pay off in years 1-3 of the deal.

      • hk

        November 27, 2013 at 7:59 am

        Chuck A.,

        The interesting thing is that Mozeliak seems to expect this as well as the Cardinals are paying Peralta $15.5M in 2014, $15M in 2015, $12.5M in 2016 and $10M in 2017.

      • Hogey's Role

        November 27, 2013 at 9:40 am

        I don’t necessarily have a problem with signing the juicers…. But the problem that I have is there getting paid top dollar and that isn’t right, there should be a cap to what they earn like a 1 million dollar a year cap, right now it pays off for them to cheat, I would restructure the penalties, first offense is a one year ban and a second offense and you are done…. After your first offense you make one million a year and if you’re already under contract the remainder of your yearly salary will go to a charity or a cause to keep kids from using steroids or PEDs in general…. There has to be harsher penalties, and a salary cap…. If you cheat and you wanna play you can play for a million or leave the game because you obviously don’t respect the game

      • hk

        November 27, 2013 at 10:28 am


        One more thing to debate this topic, which I find interesting, further is that Peralta has been so up-and-down throughout his career that it is hard to tell from his year-to-year results when he might have been using PED’s. Following are his annual triple-slash lines since 2005:

        2005: .292 / .366 / .520
        2006: .257 / .323 / .385
        2007: .270 / .341 / .430
        2008: .276 / .331 / .473
        2009: .254 / .316 / .375
        2010: .249 / .311 / .392
        2011: .299 / .345 / .478
        2012: .239 / .305 / .384
        2013: .303 / .358 / .457

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 11:11 am

        If we want to judge GMs based on juicer hirings, the Phillies just rewarded a 35-year-old (this January) juicer coming off a 50-game suspension and sub par year to a fat 3-year extension.

        For what it’s worth Mozeliak was also quoted as saying the Cardinals did their own due diligence on Peralta’s PED use before they were willing to pull the trigger. He also appreciates the fact, as you’ve mentioned, that the club still “can’t know for sure” the depth of his involvement with PEDs. Based on his track record I’d say he’s taken a reasonable and educated guess with the Peralta signing. Mozeliak may not be the ultimate genius GM but I’d be hard-pressed to name a better one. He’s shown the foresight to put together great scouting, a great farm and a 7 or 8-year-old complete sabermetrics department which has no doubt helped the Cards choose prospects and veterans alike. In other words, he’s seems to operate on something more than hunches and prayer.

        And the nice thing is, if Peralta does turn out to be a bust, the Cardinals have enough luring chips and extra cash to obtain almost any shortstop in baseball.

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 12:13 pm


        I think your point is well-taken about the yo-yo numbers in Peralta’s history and I’m sure the Cardinals’ number people have weighed them into consideration.

        But worse case for the Cards, it’s a safe bet that a PED-free Peralta is still a major upgrade over Kozma whose OPS was at the bottom of the league. Peralta also brings a right-handed bat into a heavily left-handed lineup. Like McCann’s overpayment, worth seems to focus not just on the general market but also on year-to-year supply and demand.

        As Lefty asked, whether that 4-year, 52 million was worth the difference is another story. Peralta’s stats certainly are not all those millions better than Ruiz’s stats, but then again, he’s a full contract term younger than Ruiz. The Phillies may feel more secure about Chooch’s PED-free capacities than do the Cards concerning Peralta but they can’t be as confident about his durability, especially considering his wearing duties.

      • schmenkman

        November 27, 2013 at 12:34 pm

        wbramh, one difference is that Ruiz can resume using his PED (he now has an Adderall exemption), whereas Peralta cannot.

      • George

        November 27, 2013 at 2:43 pm

        My thoughts on Peralta are that he’ll most likely prove that even the Cards’ supposedly genius GM can overpay in terms of money and years.

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm


        That’s true about Chooch. Being a past user of adderall never gave me a shot at becoming a major league catcher. It jjust allowed me to focus on reality. It’s not an athletic performance enhancing drug – unless it reminds some outfielders to play the ball rather than the sparrow flying by.

        To my knowledge, Peralta’s drug of choice remains unspecified but his still foggy connections to a nefarious clinic suggest it was something more potent than an A.D.D. drug.

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 4:20 pm

        Lefty (and others who have commented about not rewarding juicers)

        On that issue I suspect most or all of us are in total agreement.
        More has to be done to discourage it.
        Signing a juicer is a baseball decision and not a moral one.

        As you and Hogey have suggested, penalties should be harsher.
        I think Hogey is on to something when he suggests that salaries should be shaved to some minimum after a suspension is served – not for punitive reasons as much as to prove their current worth minus the juice. I would suggest a juicer be forced to play for at least one season at the league minimum. That’s still a lot of cash but an amount that would more easily be accepted by the union.

        Repeat offenders should face expulsion.

      • hk

        November 28, 2013 at 10:27 am


        Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. If you’re interested, addresses this subject in great detail.

      • Lefty

        November 28, 2013 at 5:51 pm

        hk, Wow, that’s serious detail. I should have time later this weekend to sit down and digest that in it’s entirety, things are crazy around here right now. I’m hoping that this author addresses velocity off the bat as well as pure power numbers. Enjoy the rest of your holiday.

      • Lefty

        November 29, 2013 at 9:56 pm

        hk, Mr. Walker makes some valid points and has certainly done his homework. He provides thorough (and at times repetitive) proof of his claims, and I concede that I MAY have been over reactive in my comment above.

        However, none of what he said would matter to someone like Mark McGuire who stated his use did not help him hit home runs, he felt he had the ability to do that without the enhancers. What he told Bob Costas was that the PED’s helped to keep him healthy enough to stay on the field – which in turn gave him the ability to hit more home runs. Mr. Walker tells us right away he does not address that in this piece, he is only addressing “strengthening PED’s”.

        But the over-riding issue for me is his quote below. This explains the entire reason I have such a problem with the use of PED’s.

        “If there is an unfairness about PED use, it is that owing to their tabu status, they are not equally available to any who might want them. Those who are willing to risk detection or opprobrium can obtain whatever advantage they may or may not confer in a given sport, while those equally interested but cowed by the regulatory and acceptability climate are denied whatever those gains might or might not be. Athletes cannot make choices on the merits as they perceive them.”

        Honestly, the rest of his piece makes no difference to me as long as this is the case. I am truly bothered by the lack of some semblance of a level playing field.

        So to re-state- I don’t believe that Jhonny Peralta going into his age 32-36 seasons without enhancers will be a better player than Jhonny Peralta prior to his age 31 season using PED’s. And IMO- if the John Mozeliak believes that, he’s got an unwanted surprise coming.

      • George

        November 29, 2013 at 10:43 pm

        “If there is an unfairness about PED use, it is that owing to their tabu status, they are not equally available to any who might want them. Those who are willing to risk detection or opprobrium can obtain whatever advantage they may or may not confer in a given sport, while those equally interested but cowed by the regulatory and acceptability climate are denied whatever those gains might or might not be. Athletes cannot make choices on the merits as they perceive them.”

        That’s nothing but a load of hogwash, hooey, or in some circles, B.S. In any decision, the good is weighed against the bad. Some people just perceive–this run-around statement’s own word–that the good outweighs the bad; some perceive that the bad outweighs the good. That’s all part of an athlete’s choice. If player ‘A’ decides he can’t risk it, is that any different than player “B” deciding he can? All athletes, unless they live under rocks or just arrived from Mars pretty much know what PEDs do or don’t do. It’s not that Player “A” doesn’t know the merits or doesn’t know where to get them if he wants them, it’s that he doesn’t see them as being an advantage compared with what can and probably will happen. Player “B” is simply a cheater thinking he won’t get caught. Availability is no different for anyone; it’s morality or perhaps intelligence, that varies.

      • hk

        November 30, 2013 at 2:52 pm


        Peralta in his age 32-35 seasons most likely won’t be as good as Peralta in his age 31 season, but I’d bet the Cardinals already expect that to be the case – whether it’s because of aging or no more PED’s – and have factored that into the price. The question is what type of production does STL need to get their money’s worth from this deal?

      • wbramh

        November 30, 2013 at 4:09 pm

        Lefty: Re: “The question is what type of production does STL need to get their money’s worth from this deal?”

        Peralta was just one of many changes the Cards have made in the off-season but to your point he may be the riskiest as well as the most expensive move. I wouldn’t be surprised if management is only counting on two years of top production from him. Then again, whatever they get out of Peralta will be a marked improvement over Kozma. The weighting system over the course of his contract should make it easier to move him after two or three years if he’s still producing at a decent if not all star rate – just in time for some sucker GM to sign Peralta to an additional 3 year contract at age 34 (I’m not naming names).

        I suspect the Cards thinking is that Bourjos, Wong and Peralta each count as an upgrade over last year’s pennant winner. Whether or not Peralta alone gives them maximum bang for their buck is less important in the larger picture. If they keep improving with every house cleaning they’ll keep cleaning every other team’s clocks.

      • wbramh

        November 30, 2013 at 4:11 pm

        My last comment should have been directed to HK. Sorry gents.

    • George

      November 27, 2013 at 9:35 am

      That quote “One of our tenets is to give opportunities to players that have shown they’ve accomplished everything they need to in the minor leagues” can only apply if a team has that type of player. It has nothing to do whatsoever about organizational philosphy but much more to do with scouting. It takes good prospects to get to the majors at a young age, and it takes good scouts to find them. There’s probably not a team around that doesn’t promote the players that produce in the minors, including the Phils, who just last year used Asche, Galvis, Hernandez, Pettibone, and some relievers who were all under twenty-six. In the past, they’ve promoted Hamels, Kendrick, Rollins, and others well before that age. Right now, after five years of low draft picks, a couple of bad choices like Savery, and some ill-advised trading, they just don’t have anyone particularly adept who isn’t still very young and thus playing in the lowest levels of the minors, and with some positions, such as catcher, even the best usually need even more experience before reaching the majors. Even the Cards can’t seem to develop a decent shortstop. They’ve been weak there for years.

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 11:28 am

        Re: “That quote ‘One of our tenets is to give opportunities to players that have shown they’ve accomplished everything they need to in the minor leagues’ can only apply if a team has that type of player. It has nothing to do whatsoever about organizational philosphy but much more to do with scouting.”

        I appreciate your point, George, but isn’t putting together great scouting, nourishing a farm system and building a strong sabermetrics department all about “organizational philosophy?”

        I would also surmise that better front offices produce better players who in turn tend to jump from the minors to the parent club more quickly. I think that’s especially true of most future superstars in the game. MLB is currently rife with exciting 21 and 22-year-old talent and I would guess the higher percentage of them are on contending teams..

      • George

        November 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm

        Of course it starts with putting together great scouting and development systems. That still has noting to do with “philosophy.” It has to do with hiring the people who take care of scouting and minor league development. I don’t for a nanosecond believe that any team would delibetately hire scouts and instructors they don’t think are any good.

        I’d also point out that sabermetrics can only really be applied to established players. A high schooler or college kid can have a great OBP, for example, but one has to take into account that he’s playing against other high schoolers and other college kids, most of whom never even get drafted. It’s easy to draw walks when your competition has limited strike throwing capabilities and to have great averages when their fielders run poor routes on flyballs or don’t read hops very well. Facing better competition, those numbers could seriously decline, and that’s why scouts are sent to really find out how good a player looks in action.

        I think the Phils could probably use a shake-up of the scouting department, but to me it’s not because the wrong philosphy is in place, it’s that there’s a seeming lack of ability to spot true athleticism and baseball instincts.

      • wbramh

        November 27, 2013 at 4:10 pm

        George: Point taken that minor league stats are not a perfect barometer of future major league performance but tI disagree with your statement that they can “only be applied to established player.” There’s no reason sabermetrics can’t help identify higher-performing minor league players against same level competition. Frankly, it could be used to determine Little League metrics. And just like the bigs, weighing in additional math helps determine who the more likely of two otherwise equal-appearing players is the one to draft out of high school or college – or bring north with the parent club in April.

        We’re obviously in total agreement about the importance of intelligent scouting.

      • Scotty Ingerton

        November 27, 2013 at 4:14 pm

        The Cardinals have had a draft position just as bad and often worse than the Phillies over the past decade and have one of the best farm systems in baseball. Using low draft position as an excuse for a bad farm system just doesn’t work.

      • schmenkman

        November 27, 2013 at 9:34 pm

        Scotty, I agree that there is a lot more to it than just draft position, but consider this:

        Since 2000,

        The Cards have had 17 first round picks and 10 supplemental picks — total of 27 before the 2nd round

        This Phillies have had 9 first round picks and 6 supplemental picks — total of 15 before the 2nd round

        Nearly twice as many first rounders makes a difference.

        In addition to draft position and scouting and development (and luck), there are also trades:

        Of the 15 Phillies picks, 5 have been traded away (Floyd, Golson, Cardenas, Drabek, and d’Arnaud), and turned into Freddy Garcia (sic), Mayberry, Blanton, and Halladay.

      • George

        November 29, 2013 at 10:20 pm

        My comments about advanced metrics and established players wasn’t aimed at minor leaguers, but to draft picks. I don’t think advanced statistics are of much use there. Minor league players are somewhat established with the possible exception of rookie leagues, so there could be a need at those levels. However, if the scouts can’t pick good players in the draft, there probably isn’t much reason to use sabermetrics at any level, unless you wish to determine that all your prospects aren’t very good.

  4. wbramh

    November 27, 2013 at 4:14 am

    Pardon the above misspellings of Taveras and Kozma and a few other typos. It’s after 4 AM and I should be trying to get back to sleep.

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  6. Lefty

    November 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Long day, sorry guys couldn’t get back to any of you. I value everyone’s opinion, and try to be as fair as possible giving thought to all sides.

    hk- if you want empirical proof, I admit I don’t have it, nor the desire to spend time getting it. But when I say “general rule”, I don’t just make stuff like that up. I think it’s pretty commonly accepted that performance enhancers- well- enhance performance. And lack there of do not enhance performance. Therefore why would anyone expect the man to play as well or better? All due respect, but that’s just common sense IMO.

    wbramh, I think my earlier comment was also driven by thought of the Jimmy Rollins deal (11m AAV for 3 years with a vesting option) which was panned by many local and national pundits, so I would ask that we compare that to the juicer’s deal. (13 million AAV for 4 years GUARANTEED until his age 36 season) At age 36, Rollins will have made 33, Peralta 52. So please allow me to rephrase my comment by saying that not only is Mozeliak not perfect, I think there is a much better chance of Jimmy’s deal paying off than the juicer Peralta.

    Hogey- I love where you’re going with this idea for juicers. IMO-The union would never agree to it, so it ain’t happening, but I love the idea or some semblance of it like the suggestion by wbramh.

    hk- I agree that the Cardinals diid a good job structuring the deal

    Chuck, George, Shmenkman and everyone else that comments here at PN, I wish you all a happy and fun Thanksgiving day.

    • wbramh

      November 27, 2013 at 7:24 pm

      Time will tell about Juice-alta but the’s only one cog. There’s the larger picture to look at in St. Louis which reveals a winning franchise not sitting on its laurels or looking for that one piece. They’ll have far more new pieces in the lineup than the Phillies and I think that’s where the story is.

      Anyway, I love reading your comments, Lefty and everyone else’s as well.
      I learn something from every one of you.
      Likewise, a Happy Thanksgiving to all.


    • schmenkman

      November 27, 2013 at 9:40 pm

      Thanks Lefty — same to you.

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