The Phillies Tender Contracts to Four – Phillies Nation

The Phillies Tender Contracts to Four Phillies have tendered contracts to Antonio Bastardo, Kyle Kendrick, John Mayberry, and Ben Revere for 2014. Bastardo, 28, posted a 2.32 ERA in 48 games in 2013 with a career-low 9.91 K/9 IP before being suspended as part of the Biogenesis scandal. After a promising first half, Kendrick, 29, posted a 6.91 ERA after the All-Star break but had positive drops in BB/9 IP and HR/9 IP. Mayberry, 30 for Opening Day, posted career-lows across his entire triple-slash in 2013, hitting .227/.286/.391. Revere, 25, had career-highs in all triple-slash categories, hitting .303/.338/.352, with a scorching hot line of .347/.380/.404 from May 1 to June 13 before he broke his foot in the first half of a double-header against the White Sox.

Analysis: Two of these tenders make sense, one is defend-able, and the fourth, well… Obviously, Bastardo and Revere were locks to return to the Phils in 2014 and the case could be made that Kendrick is worth the estimated $6-7 million he will get for 2014. But Mayberry? Mayberry continues to regress and he is not getting any younger, posting career lows in all three slash categories. They will likely have to pay Mayberry an estimated $1.1-1.6 million for around a .227/.286/.391 line next year. Not worth it.



  1. SotehPR

    December 2, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    I dislike Ruben Amaro so much…. I understand the Bastardo move and maybe kendrick… But mayberry? God!!!

  2. Matt

    December 2, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Dingleberry is a bum. I said it before if they tenure Mayberry I’m done with any hopes for this team. Dingleberry shows no intentions of improving this team. This is total crap. I guess as Philly fans there is no hope till Monty dies, Giles is buried and ruin tomorrow is laughed out of baseball.

    • schmenkman

      December 2, 2013 at 7:52 pm

      Wow. Really?

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 2:19 pm

        Okay, as an unabashed critic of how this team is being run I think I’m the perfect guy to answer our friend, Matt.

        First of all, I don’t believe baseball has ever known more dedicated people than the Giles family, both Bill and the legendary Warren before him. Successes or failures notwithstanding there is no doubt that they are baseball people through and through and always strived to do the best for the team and the city.

        Dave Montgomery? I don’t know Dave well but I remember a day in the 1980s during a similar rebuilding period when he invited a lowly fan in for a private meeting because he wanted to get a fan’s perspective on the team and how they could reconnect with the community they try to serve. I can vouch for it since I was that fan. So lay off Dave, please.

        And Ruben? Hate might be an appropriate word for how I feel about some of his recent moves but I’m not sure how that translates into hating the man, personally. Ruben has tried to reclaim the team’s recent glory with aging players and clumsy patches designed to repair obvious new weaknesses. That may be wrong-minded but he’s neither trying to lose his job nor lose games. The man wants to win but hasn’t figured out how to do it without blowing up the team. That’s all and I wouldn’t want his thankless job.

        And John Mayberry? A great kid, smart and a terrific athlete who has never lived up to his promise as a baseball talent. He’s a player who (as Schmenk has suggested about Arencibia) might do better for himself and another team if he has a fresh start elsewhere. JMJ may never be better than mediocre at best but I don’t think he’s ever been used to the team’s advantage – nor, I suspect, has he ever been given the proper coaching to improve his game, either at bat or in the field.

        There. I’ve said it.

    • Pope Owens

      December 2, 2013 at 8:07 pm

      Matt. Relax.

      • Matt

        December 3, 2013 at 7:43 pm

        Bill Giles maybe a baseball fan but he’s really dumb. Did anyone of you guys see him on hot stove a week or so ago. He said that back in 80 he had a chance to vote for against a dh in the nl. The jackass couldn’t make up his own mind about weather to vote for or against it, he called the owner of the team but he was on a fishing trip, so Giles voted against it. At the time bull was playing left field,, wow Greg would have been a great dh. He even went on to say he’d vote against it today if asked to vote. I’m sure if he realizes but Ryan Howard is on the phillies right now, he’d be better off as a dh. Also in the inner view he talked about how he traded away a hall of framer (Ryan s)while taking a piss in a public bathroom. To me he sounded as dumb as ruin tomorrow jr, it sure explained a lot about the philly front office. After he was off the phone,the guy chuckled and said wow imagine trading someone away in a bathroom. I think he was bought on the show to show Philly fans how deep the dumbness goes.

      • schmenkman

        December 3, 2013 at 7:50 pm

        Thank god he voted against the DH, and I don’t want the DH just because the Phillies currently have a good fit for that. And I’m sure things like the trade story happen more often than we know.

    • Pope Owens

      December 2, 2013 at 8:12 pm

      My goodness. I know we’re dissapointed about the last 2 years. I am as well.
      But for crying out loud. We had the best record in franchise history only 2 years ago.
      Remember this time last year Redsox were considered a joke. Nothing is impossible.

      • Matt

        December 3, 2013 at 7:55 pm

        I’m sorry guys if I shoot out my feelings and you guys don’t like it, but I have suffered just like many of you. We have watched really bad teams under the wing of bill Giles. From 84 to 93 we had no hope of seeing a World Series, then after 93 we might have seen the worst phillies teams ever all the way to 2006 , at least back in 2006 we knew there was going to be a good chance that the phillies would make it all the way. And yes it was great from 2007 to 2011. Then 2012 came and we thought , well a few smart moves and the team would return, but the dumb gm we have didn’t make the right moves. Sadly right now I feel the phillies have returned to being a last place team with signs of a long haul before they make it to the top again.
        Those of you who don’t agree with what I said should stay away from the comments because over there they are a lot more harsh then me.
        I’m a old time Philly fan and as much as I bash them I will always be. This is what being a Philly fan is all about,, we all have a loud voice and like to be heard. Everybody hits woohoo!!! We’ll not really but maybe will hear that guy again.

  3. Skylar

    December 2, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    I honestly think Amaro does not give a crap anymore! Why else would he bring both Bastardo and Mayberry back?? Not to mention Kendrick who also is not that much better than mediocre at best!

    Amaro really needs a smack upside the head As well as Montgomery for letting this crap go on every single off-season now.

    Anyone who has the slightest bit of common sense should know at best we will win 70 games next year and it will be even less in 2015 because our RAJ will bring back more players from our ’08 season like they are the same quality players we had in 2008!

    • Double Trouble Del

      December 2, 2013 at 7:41 pm

      How did you arrive at the seventy win figure? Just curious.

      • Skylar

        December 4, 2013 at 2:21 am

        How did I come up with 70 wins? Just look at the composite fWAR of each player and add them up! ( some people do their homework. )

        Funny you asked me that though, as I seen the Phils Nation team just *today* had an article about how they too, project 70 wins for us in 2014 ( with the team we have now. )

        Last winter, I also projected the Phils to win between 75-78 wins for 2013. What I’d be curious about is how do you think they wouldn’t get about 70 wins for 2014?

    • Hogey's Role

      December 2, 2013 at 8:31 pm

      Are you serious, bastardo?? Where are you gonna find a better lefty reliever for less

    • Phillies fan from Germany

      December 3, 2013 at 3:27 am

      @Skylar: You realize that there is value in being mediocre at the Major League level, don’t you? 6-7 million for a mediocre starter like Kendrick is perfectly fine!

      • hk

        December 3, 2013 at 9:07 am

        Exactly. Kendrick is worth ~$6.5M for one year in a world where Phil Hughes gets $24M / 3 years.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 1:45 pm

        Your correct in saying there’s value in mediocrity in this league, but too much mediocrity at any price only buys you a .500 ball club. Austerity has diminishing returns while (smart) reinvestment builds winners.

      • hk

        December 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm


        The key is to avoid overpaying for mediocrity. Over the past 2 seasons, Ryan Howard has not even been mediocre for $25M per year. That performance, more than paying $6.5M for a starting pitcher with a 4.05 ERA over the past 3 seasons, is what buys you a .500 ball club.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 3:11 pm

        The contracts tendered for Howard and Papelbon were nothing short of suicidal while retaining a mediocre 4th or 5th starter in Kendrick at $6.5 mil was probably a smart move. especially since Gonzalez remains a big question mark and (a healthy) Pettibone still has a lot to prove. Plus, I suspect Kendrick could become an effective, maybe even above average long reliever when needed. He had to be tendered.

        My point is that retaining or acquiring mediocrity at a good price has diminishing returns.
        I don’t think there’s a single starter in FA this year who clearly qualifies as being better than mediocre or much above that line. What the team needs is a future Doc or Lee since Doc’s days have passed and the clock is ticking on Cliff, too. If Pettibone and Biddle aren’t the replacement horses needed then management should be making an effort to land Tanaka. No team in the AL or NL is going to allow a 27-year-old Clayton Kershaw quality pitcher to reach the FA market without putting up a major fight to retain their services. That pretty much leaves Tanaka as the prize catch for some team. Only about 6 teams could afford him under current rules and the Phillies are in that group. Unfortunately, the mistakes made with Howard and Papelbon, while apparent, have probably made management gun shy and that would be the lingering tragedy of their signings.

      • hk

        December 3, 2013 at 3:24 pm

        Yep, the Howard and Papelbon signings are the gifts that keep on giving (taking actually).

      • Skylar

        December 4, 2013 at 2:24 am

        @Phillies fan from Germany: if you are satisfied with a 70 win team ( meaning we’d lose about 92 game ) is fine, that is your opinion.

        I’m not saying we should be a pennant-contending team regardless; but it’d be nice if Amaro stopped giving out these merely “2008 loyalty” contracts he’s been doing the last few yrs ( with Utley, Rollins, Howard, and Ruiz now. )

      • schmenkman

        December 4, 2013 at 5:47 am

        @Skylar, I don’t think “loyalty” has anything to do with it. In each case it was either a market deal or even team friendly in Utley’s case.

  4. Double Trouble Del

    December 2, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Tendering Mayberry a contract was a foregone conclusion and should not come as a surprise to anyone.

  5. Pope Owens

    December 2, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Wow. It didn’t take long for the negative Ruben comments to come out. Everyone knows that JMJ is not a starting outfielder but he offers some outfield depth and a decent bat against LH pitching. What else is available for the money? Roger Bernadina?? No Thank you. I’m sorry but some people just like to whine and be critical. Don’t be so negative. Have some faith. He’s not going to determine the fate of the 2014 Phillies.

    • schmenkman

      December 2, 2013 at 8:06 pm


    • Alex M.

      December 3, 2013 at 10:41 am

      The key is about improving the team by keeping Mayberry they are not improving the team. Who cares about the money its the fact that we could use a change. Look at a guy like Rajai Davis who might be available for 2yrs/$5M and that would be a massive upgrade on Mayberry offensively and defensively. Or you take a flier on some bounce back players like Grady Sizemore, Fransisco Peguero, Chris Dickerson, Tyler Colvin, Quintin Berry or Chris Coghlan. Other than Sizemore the rest could be had on minor league deals with invites and have more upside than Mayberry and are younger. The key is not will he make or break the season no he wont but why not go after someone else who might improve the team.

      • George

        December 3, 2013 at 11:07 am

        The key word here is “might.” That’s the kind of thing that gains a team players like Delmon Young, who “might” have had made an impact, or Chad Durbin, who “might” have been a veteran upgrade in the bullpen.

        If you want other examples, try Ben Sheets, who “might” have been able to pitch with a wrecked arm, or maybe Casper Welles, who “might” have been able to re-capture some of his early career success.

        At least we all know that Mayberry will never be more than a reserve, will only be paid like one, and that he isn’t injured, trying to reestablish himself, or just been dumped by his current team who must have felt he could no longer do the job for the money involved.

      • Alex M.

        December 3, 2013 at 11:42 am

        Young and Durbin were stupid signings that had failure written all over them from the beginning. I was a huge Mayberry fan when he was coming up through the system but he has failed to do anything for this team as of late and he actually had a negative WAR last year of -0.4. What happens if Revere gets hurt again? Are you really okay with Mayberry playing center? I would rather have a guy like Rajai Davis that is a demon on the basepaths and can play good defense.

      • hk

        December 3, 2013 at 1:36 pm

        Rajai Davis is slightly better defensively than Mayberry in the OF, but he cannot play 1B and he’s a worse hitter. If the Phils use Mayberry correctly (having him face LHP’s the great majority of the time), he can be valuable. If they had platooned Mayberry and Schierholtz last year, they would have gotten very nice production from RF for ~$2M. This year, Mayberry should start vs. every LHP (either in place of Howard, Revere or Brown) and sit vs. every RHP.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 3:41 pm


        Totally agree with you about Mayberry.
        He’s been the most misused player on the team and I would utilize him exactly as you suggest – as an RH platoon for Howard or Revere and occasional pinch hitter. And yes, a Schierholtz-Mayberry right field would have been inexpensive and likely more productive answer to the team’s unending woes out there.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if Mayberry becomes another one of those late bloomers who accidentally figures out by himself (because his coaches are still asleep) how to shorten his swing to raise his average and how to cut off balls headed to the gap rather than invite inside-the-park home runs. Byrd finally solved the mystery at bat without resorting to more juice as the wrong answer and received quite a reward for his effort. Let’s hope he remembers what he did right. I continue to hold out hope for JMJ.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 5:09 pm

        George, your comment on the word “might” falls in line with my “If-If-If” Rule.
        Three “ifs” come April and players are going to be packing their bags for home come October.

      • George

        December 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm

        I can agree that Durbin was a trainwreck waiting to happen. But Young was still young enough to have a “breakout” year, or perhaps come reasonably close to his one very good season. He was also picked up by Friedman of the Rays, and I understand he’s supposed to have a clue about players’ abilities.

        At any rate, were I really trying to improve, I wouldn’t dump one usable piece and replace him with a gigantic question mark. Rajai Davis has certainly worn enough uniforms to be considered a reserve at best, which is exactly the definition of “Mayberry.” Even the best, like Sheets, sometimes–no MOST OF THE TIME–don’t revive their careers, and many supposedly good options turn out to be a complete waste of roster space. A team improves by adding reliable impact players when possible; they don’t improve by switching a reserve for another reserve, or by filling the roster with players they “hope” will be better than what they currently have.

        I’s keep in mind last season’s mantra, “Hope is not a strategy.”

  6. Double Trouble Del

    December 2, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    I just wonder where this leaves Ruf.

    • schmenkman

      December 2, 2013 at 8:28 pm

      One of them should be traded by opening day, ideally.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 3:59 pm

        Perhaps either Ruf or Mayberry should be traded but I hope any trade would be part of a blockbuster that includes a more viable outfielder in return.

        If Byrd doesn’t pan out (and he’s probably as much a risk as Delmon was) than who plays right? If only one of the two (Ruf/Mayberry) is available to play an outfield position who is available to platoon with Howard at 1st (the ideal) or replace Howard if he goes down, again? Short of bringing up Maikel Franco and sticking him on 1st (which may become the long-term answer there) I don’t see options beyond Frandsen who is strictly a bench player – not a starter nor a substitute for lost power.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 4:51 pm

        …And if Mayberry is the one to go, who backs up Revere in CF other than another converted infielder?

      • schmenkman

        December 3, 2013 at 5:27 pm

        More ifs… If Byrd really doesn’t pan out, they likely won’t come to that conclusion until close to the trade deadline anyway, and at that point they’ll either be sellers (more likely) and it won’t matter, or (miracle of miracles) they’ll be buyers and an outfielder will be one thing they’re looking for.

        If Revere goes down for an extended period again (although I don’t think he’s been injury prone) Mayberry isn’t a very good CFer anyway, so plugging in Hernandez won’t cost them much.

  7. Hogey's Role

    December 2, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    I agree with your analysis 100% Ian

  8. c. schreiber

    December 2, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    We are looking for starters, no?? Why oh why did that asswipe Amaro let Doug Fister get traded to the Gnats for actually nothing. We could have offered Minimart (almost the same as Lombardozzi) and two of our many average pitchers……

    • Lefty

      December 3, 2013 at 4:21 pm

      CS- I think, or I should say, hope you are joking. You don’t really believe what you wrote here do you?

      You can’t possibly believe that Detroit would take Mini Mart of the .350 OPS, (almost half Lombardozzi’s .639), and two pieces of trash for Pfister.

      Good move by the Nats, they actually have organizational depth, and used it to improve over Haren.

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm

        I believe pawning MiniMart off to any other team constitutes a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

      • Lefty

        December 3, 2013 at 5:36 pm

        Made me laugh- An egregious offense for sure.

      • c. schreiber

        December 4, 2013 at 12:58 am

        Yeah I was kidding on MInimart (I just want that “girlfriend” of Amaro) gone, but Galvis or Frandsen and two pitchers from that bunch we have that are all the same type would have done it. The 2 pitchers they gave Detroit were not going to come out of spring training with them. I live in Virginia and watch the Nats and Lombardozzi is nothing but their utility man and doesn’t even equate to Galvis or Frandsen. Amaro could have gotten him if he had made an attempt or even known he was available. In other words he was asleep at the wheel as usual. He’s the worst in MLB. Now he makes a trade for a 37 yr old backup catcher with no power and an average defensive catcher. My team for the last 60yrs is f—–g doomed as long as that Minimart loving ass—e is GM. Christ Montgomery wake the f– up and get rid of him.

      • Lefty

        December 4, 2013 at 6:10 am

        I live south of Baltimore and watched Lombardozzi play high school ball at Atholton. He’s a good kid, and we’re proud he made the bigs, but you’re right, he doesn’t have much more going for him than some that we could have offered. The difference as I pointed out earlier is the organizational depth that they have- giving them the ability to make trades like this without depleting their system.

        I don’t think Amaro should trade away any more kids to chase his pipe dream. I think he should trade the vets, and stop pretending they have a contending team. So I’m glad he didn’t make a deal like this. Past performance says it’s likely he’d have overpaid anyway. It’s time for the Phils to get a grip on reality and start the rebuild IMO, not chase more vets.

        P.S. Since you see the Nats games, I hope you agree with me that Bob Carpenter is THE WORLDS biggest asshole, I can’t stand him.

  9. bacardipr

    December 3, 2013 at 1:43 am

    Not sure what the asking price for Rajai Davis. I would of went with him over Mayberry.

  10. Dave

    December 3, 2013 at 7:45 am

    I think at this point you just have to laugh and find a hobby for the summer. This team is going back to being the laughingstock of baseball that they have been for most of their existence. I really thought the recent success was issuing in a new era of Phillies baseball, but Amaro has destroyed this team. What a joke.

    • schmenkman

      December 3, 2013 at 8:37 am

      @Dave, just curious: what specifically is your beef? Both Kendrick and Mayberry are relatively cheap for what they give you.

      • Dave

        December 3, 2013 at 9:38 am

        At this point I have a lot of beefs. Do I think Kendrick is useful…maybe. But he’s not useful at 6 or 7 million – same with Mayberry. Martinez is still in the organization. Trading away Pence and Victorino for a bag of marbles and then failing to fill in the holes almost 2 years later. Signing an old catcher to a long term deal. The list goes on an on. We can agree to disagree on all these moves, but the results on the field speak for themselves. This team has declined for 5 straight years. Yes, I know they had the best record in 2011, but they were bounced in the first round. A few years ago, the Phillies were being mentioned in the same sentences with the best in baseball…Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, etc. I was so proud reading those articles. However, the moves being made just don’t make sense for a top tier team. Are you rebuilding, retooling, treading water, trying to contend? I honestly have no idea what the hell Ruben is doing and I don’t think anyone else does. I keep hoping for a big bold move, but I’m not seeing anything to get excited about.

  11. Keystone

    December 3, 2013 at 9:16 am

    I think the negativity and frustration is derived by Mayberry taking up a spot on the bench that could be given to ANYONE else. I’m pretty sure we all realize that Mayberry comes cheap, but he is BELOW replacement level. He takes AB’s away from Ruf or anyone from the minors that could use a chance. Mayberry got his chance and we’ve all seen what he did with it. I’d rather watch a player with at least some unknown upside/potential instead of a known AAAA player’s mediocrity. Crap, even Steve Susdorf, who’s 27 in AAA could be given a chance, he might not set the world on fire but its a change of scenery.
    All I’m trying to say is this is akin to the “Reid Fatigue” we had with the Eagles, except where the argument could be made he was a good coach and we needed a change,Mayberry is a bad player and we need a change.

    • schmenkman

      December 3, 2013 at 9:29 am

      I understand the fatigue and the desire to take the unknown quantity over the known mediocrity, but there is a lot of off-season left and I would be surprised if both JMJ and Ruf are still with the organization come opening day.

  12. Alex M.

    December 3, 2013 at 10:49 am

    I am really getting frustrated with Ruben, I understand loyalty to your guys but this is just starting to get ridiculous. I am with Ian that Bastardo and Revere were locks and that Kendrick is understandable. Honestly before the Phil Hughes contract I would have been pissed at Kendrick getting tendered a contract but its the market. If the contract gets above $7M I will not be thrilled however. Mayberry should not be retained just simply because if Ruben is trying to improve the team and make another run then why stick with the same guys that have not performed up to expectations.

    • Hogey's Role

      December 3, 2013 at 12:33 pm

      I agree with you here and what you said above Alex

  13. Manny

    December 3, 2013 at 11:32 am

    I miss the RAUUUUUUUUUL chants…. 🙁

    • Lefty

      December 3, 2013 at 4:28 pm

      Slugging percentage .494, Slugging percentage .487

      Yes, Dom Brown’s was higher, but not that much.

  14. Brass Villanueva

    December 3, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    This team won 73 games last year, so I applaud RAJ for doing everything in his power to keep this core group together as long as possible. I can’t wait for opening day.

  15. Cory

    December 3, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Totally agree with the general sentiment here. We need to upgrade everywhere possible. If we can upgrade our 4th OF from JMJ to Rajai for around 1.5 mill extra per season that’s worth it.

    • schmenkman

      December 3, 2013 at 12:50 pm

      Rajai Davis: 33 years old, hits about as well as Mayberry (a little more on base, a little less power), and his defense rates as bad or worse. Any upgrade comes from his speed, which is substantial. The only caveat there is that speed will decline (article:, but the Phils may be able to get a decent year or two out of him, a la Juan Pierre.

  16. Bart Shart

    December 3, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I can see both sides of this four-player signing. I am not as upset as some, but this is not thrilling news either. The off-season is still active and I hope we see a reasonable upgrade
    in the outfield, in our pitching(both starting and relief) , and in our bench. Next year will be important to the future of Rubin JR.

  17. Steve Jeltz

    December 3, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Know what’s a great way to win the same number of games as the year before? Keep the same team.

  18. Jaron B

    December 3, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Kendrick + Gonzalez balances out the rotation with two righties for the two ace lefties. If Kyle gets $6-7MM, that’s ok.

    Revere is cheap (due to the injury) and showed he can produce offensively (could be in the lead-off role) but couldn’t show it over a full season. His defense is good enough, but he needs lots of reps to improve his value or it’ll cost him pts in ARB. 2014: $1.5MM; 2015: $3.25MM to 5.0MM (based on career avgs. skewed toward mid-2013 #s)

    Bastardo is our most experienced lefty despite the suspension. If he doesn’t do well this year, he should not be tendered prior to 2015. A sub-2.50 ERA will get him ~$2MM this year (a raise of ~$600k). Next year, he’ll make $4.5MM based on his avgs.

    2014 should be the last season w/ Mayberry in red pinstripes. He’s got value as a righty & can play 1B & all 3 OF positions. 2014: ~$2MM. He needs to produce offensively against righties and halfway decent against lefties with a total of 300 PAs (200 vs. RHP) to even be considered for a job in 2015, but JMJ will be too old, even if he proves ~1.0 WAR (or more) overall (1-2 WAR vs. RHP, -1->0 WAR vs. LHP) in 2014. Not good for a player I think will make $4MM in 2015, which will be a waste despite the following rule of thumb for $ value: for every 1 WAR, player is worth $4.5MM.

    • hk

      December 3, 2013 at 2:13 pm

      Why is a balance of RHP’s and LHP’s important for a rotation?

    • schmenkman

      December 3, 2013 at 2:21 pm

      ““We won’t win 100 games next season,” he said. “But with another wild card, we can definitely get into the playoffs.”

      • wbramh

        December 3, 2013 at 4:33 pm

        If I had to bet I’d say Cano inks a new contract with the Yankees at a substantially lower number of dollars and years than his initial asking price. He’s pretty much priced himself into that corner.

        However, if Cano won’t come down to the Yankees terms, I think management would sooner say sayonara to Robbie and land Tanaka and Omar Infante (or someone of comparable quality) to play 2nd – with enough cash left over to pursue a decent closer.

        As good as Cano is I don’t think his resigning would have the same positive impact on the team that picking up a true ace like Tanaka would have on a season.

        My point being that the acquisition of an ace is the easiest way to create a 10-game swing in wins in back-to-back seasons. Add a touches of improvement elsewhere (a la Boston) and a 70-win team is suddenly a wild card. And now you have 3 aces to help win those perpetually unpredictable short series against division leaders. If legal issues clear up in time and there’s an opportunity to land Tanaka, Cano will be allowed to walk and he’ll probably have to accept an offer equal to or below the Yankees starting counter bid. That team would be the Nationals.

    • Brass Villanueva

      December 3, 2013 at 3:04 pm

      I’m not seeing the improvement over the 2013 team, but I guess if we use Ruben’s “back of the baseball card” methodology anything is possible. As is the case with the past two seasons, Amaro is counting on players in decline coming somewhat close to career averages and older players staying healthy. We’ve seen how well that “plan” works, but hey, why not try it for a third season? I can’t wait for opening day.

  19. ABBR - Anybody But Ben Revere

    December 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Yesterday’s “news” is the equivalent of treading water while being stuck in quicksand.
    More moves like this only leads to sinking faster.

  20. c. schreiber

    December 3, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    No one has anything to say about Amaro letting the Nats steal Fister? For what the Nats got him for we could have easily matched or topped that. What’s your take on it Schmenk??

    • schmenkman

      December 3, 2013 at 4:16 pm

      I don’t know what to make of it, or what Detroit was looking for — it sounds like they wanted the lefty prospect (Ray), maybe they would have taken Biddle but Amaro didn’t bite. Just speculating, though. Who knows.

      • George

        December 3, 2013 at 7:19 pm

        Maybe Amaro offered Biddle, but Detroit thought better of Ray. Maybe they liked the other pieces.

        People make way too much of an issue when another team grabs someone they think could have helped their own team. It just shows that there’s more to a trade than meets the eye. Just because a tyeam wants a player doesn’t mean they’ll get him. There’s always that other team involved; in fact, in a trade market sometimes there are multiple teams making offers. It’s like an auction; you bid as high as you feel you can afford, and hope you’re not outbid at the last second.

      • c. schreiber

        December 4, 2013 at 1:05 am

        Schmeck, they didn’t want much based on what they received. I’m pretty sure Detroit was just cutting salary, He would have been our #3 starter. He’s proven. Christ what a GM. He was asleep at the wheel, probably relaxing with Mini in AC.

      • schmenkman

        December 4, 2013 at 5:02 am

        Again, if he was asleep at the wheel, then so were the GM’s of 27 other teams. We don’t know why they matched up with Washington and not one of the other 28.

    • Dave

      December 3, 2013 at 7:10 pm

      No, we haven’t gotten over the tendered contracts yet. But let’s see, the Nats #4 is Fister, and our #4 is Kendrick. Who’s our #3 you ask? Well, we don’t have one. And our #5 is a guy with arm problems who’s never pitched in the major leagues.

      • George

        December 3, 2013 at 7:27 pm

        The guy with the arm problems is projected to be the Phils’ #3. There have been other guys who’ve never pitched in the majors and did well, like Yu Darvish (not to mention rookies) so that part of the equation doesn’t mean much.

        Pettibone will probably be #5, and he was pretty decent in his rookie season.

        By the way, who is the Nats’ #5? You didn’t say. Maybe he’s worse than Pettibone. Maybe he’s worse than the arm problem guy.

      • Dave

        December 3, 2013 at 10:22 pm

        George, how can you say it doesn’t mean much? The guy has never pitched at this level. You have absolutely no idea what you’re getting. To project him as our #3 starter is ridiculous. The Nats #5 is Detwiler. He’s better than 3 fifths of our rotation.

      • George

        December 4, 2013 at 12:25 am

        I can say it because in most every case it’s true. There’s not a pitcher alive who at one time had yet to pitch “at this level.” Yu Darvish and Fernando Valenzuela never pitched “at this level” until they actually did. Ichiro Suzuki never played outfield “at this level” until he started setting records. Every rookie ever brought into the majors had “never pitched at this level,” even all those Hall of Fame guys.

        If a player has the talent, he’ll stick. Obviously, this Gonzalez may or may not have the talent, but some scouts have looked at him and believe he does. I’ll rely on that for now. It’s not me who says he’ll be #3, anyway; it’s the “ridiculous scouting staff. People who have been evaluating talent for a decade or so.

        If you want to be worried about something, worry about the arm, not the experience.

        And you’re rating of Detwiler is way too generous.

      • wbramh

        December 4, 2013 at 1:12 am

        I agree with George.

        The big issue with Gonzalez is that we don’t know whether his arm damage is minor, something potentially career ending or something in between. The fact that his agent was willing to drop the signing price dramatically when word of his arm troubles came up has me a little concerned. Yes, other teams had already backed off when the Phillies outbid them but I don’t think there was any reason they couldn’t have reentered the negotiations after the initial deal was killed.

        I think the World Baseball Classic has become a good barometer of just how many great players are outside of the American system. I’d take a Darvish or a Puig (or a Tanaka) over all but a handful of players in the league.

  21. c. schreiber

    December 4, 2013 at 1:14 am

    George, you said it yourself ” its the ridiculous scouting staff. People who have been evaluating talent for a decade or so” The same staff who #1 picks over the last decade are rated the WORST in baseball. They are the ones who said Gonzalez will be the #3. Fister is a #3 starter of course with the Nats (our division) not with us because of Gonzalez’s talent. Really.

    • wbramh

      December 4, 2013 at 1:44 am

      The scouts who are high on Gonzalez were not just from the Phillies organization. They included scouts from the Dodgers, Red Sox, Rangers, Braves, Blue Jays and Cubs.

      The consensus among them is that Gonzalez will need only a handful of rust-clearing starts in the minors before he’s ready to pitch a major league game. Gonzalez is most likely a bona fide #3 after Hamels and Lee and will probably assume that position by mid-season if he doesn’t require surgery this year. Fellow defectors Chapman, Fernandez and Cespedes did pretty well for themselves making it to the All Star Game this year. Had he played another month in the league, Puig would have joined them.

      • Dave

        December 4, 2013 at 7:39 am

        You guys are putting way too much faith in the Phillies scouting and development. I honestly hope your right though.

    • schmenkman

      December 4, 2013 at 5:39 am

      The bit about first round picks sounds about right, but where were they rated? They do have the fewest first round picks in MLB since 2000:

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