Phillies Nation

80 Responses to “Gameday: Phillies (11-11) At Brewers (13-8)”

1. Geoff Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 11:40 am

   YES! good move to sit howard, he really really needs to sit

2. Mike T Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

   I see today getting out of hand real quick - not looking good for the Phils.

3. Brian Micheal's Arch Enemy Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

   Geoff, You are a dope! Howard is 3-8 against Suppan with 2 HRs.

4. Joe Durbin Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

   Hamels left in too long. I saw this same thing years ago. Once a pitcher today hits 100 get him out of there. The body is not a machine which can just keep throwning at that speed. I know he was pitching a lot of off speed pitches, but 120 was too long.
   I have noticed them leaving the starters if possible in 100 plus pitches.

   Yes someone is going to come back and say the back in the day pitchers went 120 all the time. OK the mound was higher. The batters did not stand there and take and take the pitches either.

   Times have changed.

5. Paul Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

   This game could be high scoring, something like 10-9.

6. Rob Cowie Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

   As long as it’s a healthy W I’ll be happy.

7. Mike W. Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

   Ahhh, gotta love the days you can watch mlb.tv at work.

8. Mike W. Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

   Dobbs DP. So far the benching of RyHo not working out.

9. Geoff Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

   but howard couldnt hit a beachball right now. he looks like an idiot up there taking golf swing rips at garbage in the dirt. he couldnt belt one off of sidney ponson with the way that hes been hitting! 0 for 5 last night? against what, a guy that almost got DFA’d at the start of the season. the man needs to refocus himself and shorten his swing so he starts actually making contact and then lengthen it when he gets himself right.

10. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    IMO, Jenkins has to be big today with Howard out.

11. Jason Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Is it me or is that a different Pat Burrell? He looks more relaxed and someone told him that there is a little place called right field that he can hit to. I know he normally slumps come June but right now he is holding the middle of the order down - him and a man named Utley

12. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Have to say, I have not been impressed at all by Jenkins.

13. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    We are just not a good baseball team right now.

14. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    I agree. Jenkins has been a bad signing so far. also, the brewers stink, how have they not already knocked moyer out of the game?

15. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    If the Brewers stink, than we are flat out horrible.

16. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Our lineup looks so embarrassing on paper. I don’t have anything to say, I’m just embarrassed to be a Phillies fan right now - we are not good.

17. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    My point exactly. Jamie Moyer stinks at this point in his career. A good team would have knocked him out in the first inning or two he has no business being in ANYBODYS starting rotation. A team that cant do that stinks. The Brewers havent done that. The Brewers stink. The Phillies lost to the Brewers last night and theyre losing right now. Therefore, right now, the phillies stink at this point in time.

18. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Brewers keep shooting themselves in the foot.

    Mike, calm down, buddy. Howard is struggling. Rollins and Vic are on the DL. What lineup do you want? Last year at this time we’re bringing in Roberson and Thurston. Don’t be embarassed.

19. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    I want a lineup that isn’t this embarrassing.

20. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Mike T — you gotta be the most negative fan on the boards. As Tim just pointed out, look at those positives. 11-11 with 3 starters either out or nonexistant. Things have much more of a chance of getting better than worse.

    What’s with all the Moyer bashing? Again, why weren’t you guys saying that last year?? He’s certainly been better this year than last.

21. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    I’m the most realistic person on the boards.

    11-11 and going downward as I type.

    I wasn’t posting on this blog last year, or I would have said something about Moyer. Durbin needs to go into the rotation - he would be a solid 5th.

    Anything else?

22. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Yeah, I present the stat that the Brewers knock around lefties and I said Moyer might be in for a long day and everyone starts burning torches. Crazy stuff, guys.

23. Don M Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Last year, when we had 11 in the LOSS column…we only had 4 wins.. so its already looking better! Moyer is fine, he gives you 5-6 innings, and usually keeps you in the game, with what the Phillies offense usually does that should get him another 10 wins or so. Eaton has been very good so far, but not much run support for him… I’d love to see if Fabio Castro has really learned how to throw strikes (3-0 so far?) but his problem has always been too many BB. Anyone know how Carasco or Outman are doing, or if there is a legit chance we see either of them in the rotation after the All-Star break??

    Everyone stay positive.. missing the 1-2 punch that usually makes our offense go…and missing the power-bat that has driven those guys in the past few years… and we’re still playing .500 ball right now…things are looking good in my opinion!

24. Paul Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Werth! Making up for last night!

25. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Oh look, tie game! Everyone out of the bunker!

26. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    yes i like werth. hes better than vic. i thought he showed it last year and hes showing it again this year. tahts just my opninion though

27. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    I cant believe moyer is still in there. that totally blows my mind. hes a disgrace! and the brewers, like the mets in the first mets series, failed to score 5 runs on him in the first two innings. like how can you not do that?

28. Paul Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Moyer is still in there because he has given up 1 run!

29. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Honestly, Jenkins doesn’t deserve to play everyday once Vic returns.

30. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I agree with whichever one of you said Jenkins is not impressive. Ugh. I’m losing my patience with he and Feliz.

    Mike T — if you are this negative right now, what were you like last year when we were 4-11?

31. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    “Geoff Jenkins flies out softly to left fielder Ryan Braun. Three out.” - MLB.com Gamecast. Now, if “flies out softly” isn’t embarrassing, I don’t know what is.

32. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    I was pretty bad when we were 4-11. None of my friends or family wanted to watch/attend/or listen to a game with me.

33. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    in that mlb08 the show game, when you do that the color guy is like: “aww man that was feeble, you have to do better than that at the plate”

34. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    i like feliz as a defensive replacement but he cant hit well enough this year to make the money he makes and be a starter. tahts also a little bit of a bad signing. but its better than helms though so it doesnt glare out as a terrible thing because as bada as feliz is doing its an upgrade over helms/nunez last year

35. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Moyer, 6 IP 1 ER. HE SUCKS!! OUT OF THE ROTATION!!! WHAT A SCRUB!!!

    Now, at this point, I am hoping Charlie doesn’t screw up and leave him in for the 7th…then all the haters really might be screaming that.

36. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Geoff — did you forget about that Dobbs guy that was scheduled to start before we signed Feliz?

37. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Wow…manuel……he really did it….left moyer in for the 7th….just unreal

38. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    I remember. I said he was better than helms/nunez. not necessarily dobbs. dobbs is certaintly hitting better at this point taking each players role into account.

    also, thats right, moyer is your standard slop pitcher in todays mlb. the only reason hes still around is there arent enough good pitchers to force him out and there arent enough good hitters to make him retire. there are really only like a handful of super aces, another handful of legitimate aces. like 20 solid starters or so and the rest is “league average” or total junk. hes a soft tosser and when the umpire makes him throw the ball over the plate he gets LIT UP and hes out in 2-4 innings. when the umpires help him out, like they seem to be doing today, theyll give him a large strike zone. slop pitchers rely on the umpire for help like that. people like hamels and santana and even the “solid” guys like myers dont really have to rely on that either. only the junk pitchers need that help

39. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    At least this time he had someone ready in the bullpen.

40. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Chalk another L up to Uncle Charlie.

41. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    well, you guys know my official stance on moyer. so you know that i think that leaving moyer in this late in the game is just unbelievably insane.

42. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    FLASH!! attaway baby.

43. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Mike - seriously, calm down. Also, this isn’t Charlie’s fault. The offense has been horrible against a guy they should crush. And the Brewers probably should be up 4-1 now.

    Also, Tom Gordon is awesome.

44. Mike T Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I’m always calm - it’s just my words don’t portray me that way. Nice escape by Flash. Will our offense wake up in the 8th?

45. OZ Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Mike T - you’re negativity is getting unbearable. Having some angst is part of making Philly great, but jeeez, at least get some wit in there, try and crack a joke, anything….

    we’re .500 w/ Howard in the toilet and Rollins out. no complaints from this Fonz…..

    p.s. last i checked, most of our DBL A prospects were playing really well (Outman, Carrasco, Golson) Carpenter I believe has been struggling a bit…

46. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    When you bench someone who is slumping, you sit him the whole game.

47. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    yeah maybe they bring one of those guys up and give him a start if only just to give all the other starts an extra day of rest. i mean…carrasco should be able to hold the pirates to 3 or 4 runs through 5-6 innings. the pirates are unwatchably bad for the most part anyway. except matt capps.

48. MS Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Nice call Tim - now the big guy will, again, be frustrated with his performance and upset he didn’t start today.

    he’ll get thru the slump - but man its tough to watch

49. Mike W. Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    PATRICK BRIAN BURRELL!

50. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    MAAAAACCCCCHIIIIIINNNNEEEE!

51. MS Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    i still just don’t understand the sub? ? ? ? ?let the guy play 9 innings. i don’t get it

52. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    YES! That is awesome. they should be getting blown out by like 6 runs but somehow theyre ahead! this is great!

53. Brian Michael Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    uh oh…has Ryan lost his concept of the strikezone?

54. MS Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    now lets go take care of the pirates - -

55. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    I cant believe the brewers blew that game. great rbis by burrell, nice hr by werth. and a save by lidge again. nice to know other teams are struggling too though, as the brewers definitely are.

56. chris m Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I don’t get it…noone we sub for burrel doesn’t do any better…stop doing it chuck…burell has a great arm and catches everything he can get to…just getting to its a problem but its still better then bohn and taguchi droppping balls

57. Paul Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Geoff, the Brewers are 13-9. I don’t think that’s struggling.

58. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    oh, theyre struggling. not as bad as the phils are though. gagne has blown some saves for them, as has turnbow. in some of his other outings, turnbow hasnt been able to hit the broadside of a barn let along get the ball in tthe strikezone. bill hall is second behind ryan howard in strikeouts, or at least was as of the other day. theyve had some rotation injuries and issues. the brewers are in a weaker division too. im looking at overall strength and general impression when i say that not necessarily exact numbers.

59. Vernon Dozier Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Why would anyone follow a team for six months and continually bash them the entire way? If following the Phillies makes a person so angry and bitter then they should just stop watching the games. Last year was an amazing ride, and I feel sorry for those who couldn’t enjoy it because they had to constantly rip the players, manager, and organization for every little thing. This team isn’t perfect, but like last season they never quit.

60. Don M Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    I agree with TIM, why on earth bring Howard into this game… If you are sitting him because he is slumping… SIT HIM… turning him into a pinch-hitter for a game or two isn’t going to help!

    “Burrell…catches everything he can get to” … their thinking on this is that they should all be catching everything they can get to, and out of all the Outfielders on the team, Burrell can get to the least amount of balls. That said, I think he’s alot better in the field than people give him credit for, and how many times has it come back to bite them in the ass when the 9th inning roles around and you have pinch-hitter in Burrell’s spot….

    I think he deserves to finish what he starts since he’s tearing the cover off the ball right now… But is the reason he’s is hitting so well because he’s healthy and only plays 7 innings a night??? What do you guys think about that?

61. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    I enjoyed last season. Its part of being a fan. some fans in this city take it to the point where they almost want them to lose so that they can rip them. i dont take it that far and most of us dont. but ripping the team for their mistakes is part of being a fan for sure. Ill acknowledge when they do well, but if i see something that doesnt meet the standards of acceptability, it iwll be noted. I lived in pittsburgh for 6 years and, although i got to see what its like to be in a city that wins the superbowl, i had to suffer through the pirates as the local team. im from here so the phillies are always my team but the pirates werent watchable and still arent. were lucky this team spends what it does on payroll because although they could easily spend 200 million and go all out (which makes me upset too), at least theyre not spending 40, 50 million. ive been there before and its not fun. this team is more than watcheable and theres several teams in mlb and pro sports that arent at all.

62. Matt Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    How can you guys be so down on Moyer? He pitches six + against a dangerous Brewers club and gave up only 2 to the Mets. He works his way in and out of trouble. He is nowhere near done, I mean Myers gives up 6 to the Rockies and we can’t wait for him to pitch again. I have full confidence in Moyer, just because he doesn’t have a 90mph fastball doesn’t mean he isn’t effective. Look at Greg Maddux, albeit Maddux is a better pitcher, they come from the same school. The posters definitely need to relax the expectations on Moyer. I mean he kept Fielder hitless and Hamels was touched twice by him.

63. Vernon Dozier Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Their revenue stream does not support your comment that the Phillies could “easily spend $200 million”. The Phillies payroll is pretty much in line with their revenue stream. Rich Hoffman does a column on this almost every season to refute those who recite the mantra that “the Phillies are cheap”. Whether you believe it or not, George Steinbrenner and other owners do not take money out of their other business ventures to support their baseball team. The Yankees have their own television network which brings in money that the Phillies can only dream of.

64. Bruce Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    Oh Geoff-ff….. no “acknowledgement” that the ageless wonder, Jamie Moyer had another nice outing to keep the Phillies in the game?

65. Mark Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Pat “The Bat” comes through again. The Phillies back over .500 mark. Not to count too early, but I’m looking for 15-11 by Sunday!

66. Greg Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    HAHA. We still won despite the grumbling malcontents. Go Moyer! Go Gordon!

67. MS Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Don M- on your comment -
    But is the reason he’s is hitting so well because he’s healthy and only plays 7 innings a night??? What do you guys think about that?

    i have actually thought of that. and i’m not against the sub if this is the case. as someone pointed out yday, Burrell’s struggles historically have been impacted by nagging injuries. if only playing 7 innings will allow him to play well for 150 games - then i’m ok with the sub.

68. Tim Malcolm Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Fine win - good pitching by Moyer and especially the bullpen; big hit by Burrell. The Brewers beat themselves here.

69. Paul Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Yeah, nice win. You are right Tim. The Phils won today in similar fashion to how the Brewers won last night.

    3-1 on the road @ Denver & Milwaukee is pretty good in book.

70. Paul Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    EDIT : in my book

71. Jeff M Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    On Ryan Howard… I don’t think we should trade him. The guy does frustrate me though. Everone and their mother can see that he is pulling off of the ball. He tries to hit everything to right field. When he was productive, he hit the ball to left field. I can’t seem to understand when he doesn’t go with this approach while he is batting. Also, why isn’t this being corrected by hitting coaches. It is so evident that he isn’t waiting on the ball that when he lets a pitch go by, he still pulls his body toward right field. Maybe they should make him do 20 pushups everytime he pulls the ball. Does anyone else have any ideas?

72. ryan Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    taking the road trip to pittsburgh tomorrow. can’t wait. gonna be with a big group of phils fans. should be a helluva weekend.

73. Gnomicide Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Good win today. I like this Mike T guy because every time he starts being ridiculous and calling losses in the second inning, we win.

    Or maybe it’s just because he says this every single game and I only remember the wins. Either / or.

74. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    YOu say they cant afford a 200 million payroll???? they are billionaires. they can afford it. dont believe me? look up the incomes of the owners, particularly the middletons

75. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    now, when i say spend more i mean spend it wisely on pitching. the yankees sort of dont always spend it that wisely. im not advicating wrecklessness. you only really need to spend about130-150mm if youre smart with it. i think the phillies are a few players away. i think they need a starter thats solid-dominant (who doesnt, right) that can replace moyer. i think they need another swing man in addition to durbin for depth - someone that can start and is normally a 5th starter type. moreover, they need a live arm in the bullpen to add to the mix there. they shouldnt have to use some of the guys that are in there as much as they do. i also believe in having more than one guy in the pen who has and can close at the drop of a hat. gordon is a decent guy in that spot as is romero when they are healthy and firing well. now when lidge is on like he has been, he is very very good and can dominate. that was a good move. they tend to get cheap when it comes to pitching depth. also, what i want the richest of the ownership group, who can afford it, to do is to buy out the rest of them and take over the majority shares so that theyre ALLOWED to throw more money around without being veteod by the cheapskates that do make up a portion of the owners. i understand the situation, i just want it to be resolved in that way to allow those who want to spend more to participate more dominantly in the payroll dept

76. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    ill acknowledge that moyer did what he did. thats good. anything he gives you is a bonus and is beyond my expectations. what frustrates me is that you have to rely on someone whos a gamble everytime like that. and he is a gamble and he is dependant on the umpires. this team will be in the hunt and if they make a few more moves and some players start to hit better theyll be strong at the end of the season. what annoys me is theyre so close, yet so far away at times. ok flyers time….

77. typhoon Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    I am more worried about Kendrick and Eaton reverting than I am about Moyer.

78. dan Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    Geoff, I’m not sure you’re reading everyone’s posts right. The Phillies could spend a little more, but they set their cap pretty accurately based on the revenue the team collects. It has nothing to do with how much the owners make or have in their pockets. The Yankees don’t have that kind of money to spend because of their owners, they do because 1. they have a big time contract with YES, 2. they make the playoffs every year, 3. they have the highest ticket prices and second highest ticket sales and 4. they sell a ton of merchandise. So let’s leave the fact the Phils spend $100 MM alone and just criticize them on how they spend it.

79. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    Thats what i usually do. if you have this set limit then you cant keep ryan howard. hes going to cripple your payroll beacuse hell be a dh in 3 years. you have to trade him for mlbready prospects (cost effective talent) that can step right in. you can get that for him when he gets out of his slump. id rather pay cole hamels than ryan howard. its pretty obvious actually. also, im not saying boost it up to yankees level. im just saying was it really too much for them to keep kyle lohse or add another steady bullpen arm or another steady hitter over what they already have? clearly not. thats cheap to me. theres no excuse for that. its too early to bury them for it completely but over the course of the season it couldve helped. see i believe in hoarding capable starters. i would use two bullpen slots for guys that can come in and be the 5th starter or string starts together if they need to during the season. whne theyre not doing that they can be long relievers. so 7 capable starters is the minimum to me. thats why i dont think they have enough. benson could be a big help if he comes back healthy. the bullpen allows you to sneak a few guys that can be starters in there if theyre needed. i want this team to win and i hate to see them comeup short because of failing to go the extra mile, which they can afford to do.

80. Geoff Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    but yes, if you spend it well 100 mm is enough, but given gillicks periodic blunders id say 120mm is a safer number. well have to see if amaro is better within those limitations in the coming years.

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