Phillies Nation

38 Responses to “Difference Between Sad Loss And Good Win Is A Pinch”

1. Greg V. Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 10:37 pm

   This game didn’t even feel like a win to me. I mean I know a win is a win and there is no denying that Cole Hamels pitched a hell of a game, but he has a no decision because of a bunch of dead bats. What happend to Ryan Howard looks like it is happening to the whole team now! If it’s not one thing it’s something else these days! But kudos to Hamels tonight for a great game pitched!

2. Tim Malcolm Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

   Well the standings have wins and losses, not no decisions, so at the end, it’s a win. But it was a bad win. A warning of a win.

   I wanted to also write about the stupid move pinch running Feliz for Bruntlett in the ninth, then leaving Dobbs in to try and score from first. Sure it didn’t matter in the wash, but Manuel made some dumb moves in the ninth.

3. Geoff Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

   id shake things up pretty harshly to make a statement. but the problem is gillick is soft. besides, you still can go get more pitching in the process of doing that. trading shane for blanton and bringing up happ and golson would be a start. it would shake up the outfield and the lineup a bit while stabilizing a rotation that badly needs it until they can go out at the deadline and get a real stud if ones ou there for the taking. after all happ cant be any worse than adam eaton, can he? i cant believe theyre going to send adam eaton out there again. you cant keep doing that if you want to make ground on the division. giving away a win almost two to three times out of every 5 in this rotation. somethings gotta be done soon.

4. Greg V. Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 10:51 pm

   Yeah I totally didn’t get what that was about. I understand putting someone in for Burrell but I don’t seem to recall Feliz being a total slow poke. And after being bunted to 3rd, anyone could have gotten home from Dobb’s hit. But no worries. I’m happy now but far from satisfied. I was expecting much better tonight.

5. Paul Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 10:59 pm

   Good to get a win to end the 3 game funk. But if it was anyone other than Hamels starting that game, I think the Phils would have lost.

   I guess that’s what an ace is for though, pitch great, keep your team in it, and stop the bleeding.

   Now, I’d like to see some runs tomorrow!

6. OZ Says:
   May 20th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

   it’s a win boys…..won’t bother picking it apart. Hamels is the man, and our run scored with small ball. i am hitting the sack happy…

7. Mark Says:
   May 21st, 2008 at 3:20 am

   You’re right about the offense. They’re getting their hits but the 3, 4 and 5 have to deliver or they’re dead in the water.

8. chris Says:
   May 21st, 2008 at 5:12 am

   shane did pop out with a runner in scoring position but he also hit a double with one, it’s not his fault that charlie didn’t bring in taguchi to pinch run. i think victorino had a positive game and in general lately has looked very good. it’s time to put an end to any ideas about him platooning time. might be time to give pat some games off though.

9. erik Says:
   May 21st, 2008 at 8:11 am

   i dont know if i would consider vics 7th inning ab a pop out. he hit a line drive right to the center fielder who was playing him in the gap. the ball was hit hard and on a line. can’t really fault the guy for that. he also did double in the 9th and steal a base in the third. i think he had a pretty decent game.

10. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 8:29 am

    greg golson can probably do all of the stuff that vic does. shane is hitting .238 and ill bet golson wont hit worse than that. so why not try to get pitching?

    also, howard has K’d 68 times already this year, thats almost comically bad. except its not funny because hes killing this team. i guess you try and hide him by dropiing him in the order. you cant move him now because other teams want to see him get out of a slump first.

11. Brian Michael Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 9:24 am

    I’m with Erik and Chris and am not about to give up on Victorino. Werth’s career-game is still fresh in our minds and so is Shane’s lack of play due to injury, but as the dog days of summer set in, I feel they will both converge on more normal production. If we find that Victorino has lost a step due to injuries then I would be for benching/trading him, but he’s still succesfully stealing bases and chasing down balls in the OF.

12. Gavin Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Bottom-line is that Burrell and Utley have cooled off and no one else in the lineup is hitting any better than they were earlier in the year when they sucked.

    I agree that a lineup change/trade should be made. This team just seems stale to me right now. I don’t know what other word I could use, they just look blah…… on most nights. Maybe its that huge black hole in the middle of the lineup.

    Dobbs should be in the lineup vs RP. Period. Coste should get 4 starts a week.

    Without a trade here’s my new lineup.
    Vs. RP…Rollins-Victorino-Utley-Burrell-Howard-Dobbs-Jenkins-Coste/Ruiz

    vs. LP…Rollins-Werth-Utley-Burrell-Howard-Feliz-Coste/Ruiz-Victorino

13. Greg Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    I was at the game, Vic’s last two ABs (Lineout to CF and 2B) in key situations were absolute ropes. Aside from 2Bs from Utley and Happy Pete (big to start the 9th), they were the only balls hit hard out of the Phils yesterday. The offense really got worked.

    I almost died when Utley bobbled that groundout to end it before recovering to get Lopez.

    I’m beginning to think Howard is completely gone and will spend the remainder of his career thriving on mistakes. You’ve got to give Happ a couple of shots before pulling apart this paper-thin offense.

14. Greg Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am

    yes, Shake it up Charlie, please! If change is anything, its not status quo, and status quo sucks ass right now.

    For the Lefty tonight:

    Victorino Werth Utley Rollins Burrell Howard Coste Feliz Moyer

    Not for the season, just to shake it up tonight.

15. CZ Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am

    FYI everyone – Dobbs was not in the lineup due to a sore back. If Feliz hadn’t been playing who would have hit that double? Who would have been able to pinch-hit him home?

16. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Howard said of his strikeout rate: “well nobody keeps track of how many groundouts you have..” smart ass! groundouts can still advance the runner (rollins) who is waiting on second base for you to do something. with this kind of attitude, i dont need this anymore. if you can get a good pitching prospect and a good hitting prospect and a starter id do it. the pressure increases to make a move with each strikeout beacuse with each three strikeout game (which is like everyday) his value plummets.

17. Gavin Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 10:31 am

    I’d like for Hward to ride the pine, but in reality it aint gonna happen men.
    Whatta ya say, move Utley to 1B and bring up Cardenas next year. It wont happen, but a man can dream.

18. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Remember when a couple guys said last week that Gillick hasn’t made any good moves… and that Dobbs wasn’t that great a pinch-hitter…and every team has someone that can do what he does…. and then they kept saying that Gillick didn’t go out and get the pitchers he needed to in the off-season, but nobody could name realistic names he should have landed…

    Golson has struck out 49 times in 41 games, 166 ABs….. or every 3.3 at bats. And that is at the AA level, where the pitchers aren’t nearly as good at locating their “out-pitches” Maybe Golson will be ready next year, maybe not…but he’s definitely not ready at this point.

    Victorino is a fomer AAA player of the year, and when he’s healthy is one of the most explosive players in the Phillies lineup… we should trade him for a starting pitcher with a career record of 44 – 40, and a 4.08 ERA? Who is listed at 6′3″ and 255 pounds… maybe a little out of shape…. Isn’t that the same kind of move that the Phillies make every year and get blasted for?

    The team is above .500 despite shaky starting pitching, and a lack of clutch hitting… they are finding ways to win despite the lack-of performances from their stars… so when these guys come around, we’ll catch fire… its always so negative on here… even when they win….

19. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Yo, this team is NOT going to win the world series with this starting roation. Period. I will guarantee 100 percent that that will not happen. Plus, why are you sticking up for gillick? he has been an average GM for this team at best. hes made good moves (werth, dobbs, obviously lidge, iguchi last year) and horrible horrible moves (adam eaton, freddy garcia, feliz and jenkins are bad signings because they have barely given you production) therefore, he balances out as an average GM at best, nothing more than that certaintly.

    If you have terrible overall starting pitching, which the phillies do, i mean terrible, you need insane offensive production to have a shot at being more than a fraud in the playoffs. theyre not getting that right now, FURTHERMORE, they got SHUT DOWN in the playoffs last year by a pitching staff that was mediocre at best! what happens when they meet brandon webb and dan haren in the playoffs? and after a legendary pitching duel between webb and hamels in game 1 game two is a blowout because brett myers or jamie moyer get shelled and dan haren pitches a shutout or lets up one run. you NEED another lockdown guy to go against a dan haren in game 2.

    now, joe blanton is meant to stabilize the rotation until they can make a move for someone even better than him. ideally, he goes third. hes relatively cheap, eats innings (along with other things) and is under contract for 2 more years. he is better than adam eaton and he has performed better than myers this year. its a no brainer to go and improve your staff if all you have to give up is shane and maybe a prospect.

    you all keep waiting for these hitters to come around and excusing their poor performances. no, tahts not good enough to win a world series. i need pitching and patient contact hitting. this team is all or nothing right now and they dont have the pitching to support that habit.

    ill even go farther and say that blanton in this rotation still isnt enough. you still need a number two to in the world series. aj burnett, dan cabrera, whatever. i dont care how much money they make or what it takes to get them here aside from the untouchables of which howard is no longer part. they act like howard is so special, honestly whats so different about him than other power hitters who have flamed out or come back down to earth? whats so different about him? because he had more home runs before crashing back down to earth? there are dozens of guys like this throughout baseball history.

    this team needs stable, reliable contact hitting and outstanding pitching to win the world series. i want to see players in here that can do that. you keep a few power guys around, but id trade power for average ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

20. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:09 am

    batting average that is

21. chris m Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:29 am

    atta boy geoff put these crazy gillick lovers in there place

22. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:32 am

    I’m sticking up for Gillick because he made moves that helped get our team to the postseason for the 1st time since 1993… Do you remember how insanely good the Rockies were playing last year???? They shut down EVERYONE except the Red Sox. Maybe we won’t win the world series this year, in fact… I don’t think we will… but if you are 100% certain that they won’t win anything, and that they suck so bad… Why are you still watching them, commenting, and insisting that they trade for crappy pitchers every single day??? Cabrera sucks just as much as the next guy… Burnett and Blanton are OK.. but they aren’t a guarantee to win anything either.. they are better than what we have, but you would have to give up everything to get them. And in another 2 years we’ll be screwed because they are free agents and we have no farm system…

    They know what Howard gives them…which is why they haven’t and won’t sign him to huge deal. He passed up on an Utley-type contract, and now he’s probably kicking himself for it… Jenkis has barely played because Werth is playing so well… Feliz already has a couple of game-winning RBIs this year, and palys a solid third base… but you must be one of those guys that bitch about anyone other than A-Rod or David Wright… Pedro Feliz was the best of the 3rd basemen, we needed help there, so we got him…

23. Mike T. Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:36 am

    Don M, stop it, you’re wrong – just stop.

24. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:45 am

    This isn’t fantasy baseball… or a video game where after a few seasons you can re-start…or buy a new game… They plan a few steps ahead, which is why it might make sense to get a guy like Blanton right now… But if you need to give up Victorino..AND your #1 pitching prospect in Carrasco… you F*ck yourself a few years from now. Its not worth it…

    So far this year: Howard blows (but you can get a #1 SP and a top prospect for him anyway), Myers blows harder… Gillick is the worst GM in baseball, our bench is terrible, Lidge is a GOD, Golson could come up tomrw and win the MVP, Victorino and Carrasco should be traded for pitchers with .500 records and 4+ ERAs, Burrell should be moved up to 3rd in the lineup because his average is slipping?? or Rollins should hit 4th… Jamie Moyer is the worst pitcher in baseball… we can package anyone we want and get an ACE in return.. there are plenty of “#2″ pitchers out there that we can get for next to nothing…

    What am I forgetting???

    You guys are nuts… if you hate the Phillies so much, and “WE ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM”…. “WE DEFINTELY WON’T WIN ANYTHING THIS YEAR”… why are you guys even watching anymore?? The Red Sox or somebody else are probably playing tonight too, go start rooting for them instead! Real Phillies fans don’t want to hear your negativity all season long.

25. Mike T. Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I love the Phillies, but I’m not going to sugarcoat their averageness like you, Don.

26. Tim Malcolm Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Don – Most of what I and the posters write here should be taken as hypothesis. Please, Greg Golson isn’t winning an MVP and he’s not even at Vic’s caliber. And I’m not saying we should trade Vic and Carrasco for Blanton — that was just a suggestion to throw out to everyone.

    We’re basically talking baseball here, negative and positive. Truth is, the Phils aren’t a top-class team yet and won’t be unless they improve now, since they have the foundation to win.

27. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    I understand the point guys… but when I ask what pitcher the Phillies should have gotten this offseason that they didn’t … nobody has an answer..

    Tim, I agree with 99% of what you say, and Mike I honestly haven’t read your opinion on enough things on here to knock your opinions either.

    But don’t you guys get tired of people saying how bad this team is?? when they are a winning team right now and just won last night!… no it wasn’t pretty, but a win is a win… In my opinion they are better this year than they were last year, and if they can get production from Howard and Myers, they’ll be tough to beat!

28. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    I was calling for a plan two weeks ago, suggesting that if they want to re-sign Lidge, maybe trading Myers would be a good move. I’ll bash them when they make bad moves, or play terribly… but IN MY OPINION.. they haven’t played bad this year, considering their #1 Pitcher and #1 Slugger aren’t doing sh!t…

29. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I dont hate the phillies obviously. i dont like to practice the andy reid/bush administration policy of totally ignoring obvious reality however.

    the phillies shouldnt have to scramble to bolster their lineup and stabilize their rotation in MAY. when you have to do that it means that the GM failed in the offseason. obviusly lidge has been a good move, but they didnt follow it up with strong moves. Feliz? Jenkins? overpaid free agent slop. fill in guys for a year or two tops. they better not be here after that.

    face it, this team is a fraud right now to an extent because of this pithcing staff. when you get shut out twice by tim redding, then the lineup is a bit of a fraud too. this farm system needs to be good enough to support moves when you need them. it isnt. however, the core of this team IS capable of winning the world series provided the rotation is SIGNIFICANTLY bolstered and the lineup is improved as well. i cant ever remember shane being a patient enough hitter to my liking which makes him valuable trade bait. im sorry, but theyre really tempting fate with moyer. time to retire, pal. but he knows they have noone to replace him so he keeps going out there. also, i dont want to give up carrasco for blanton. i think they have to do whatever it takes to keep him unless youre somehow miraculously getting a 25 year old ace in return.

    theyre going to have to make sacrifices if they want to get the pitching it takes to WIN. this is a go for it year. no excuses, no more waiting, i want a championship NOW. now is their time. howard 28, utley 29, rollins 28/9, burrell 31. there arent many more years left to built towards. its now, maybe next year, maybe the year after but tahts it UNLESS you make a committment to winning by going out and doing whatever it takes to get the players it takes to get it done.

30. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    they are better this yea rthan last year. they dont suck. theyre just good, but not great. but just good isnt good enough to win a world series.

31. Tim Malcolm Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    I actually called for them to sign Bartolo Colon many times in the past, and while he’s as risky as Kris Benson, Colon is ready to pitch again. He would’ve been a nice boost to the rotation.

    And Don, remember most Philadelphians are negative by association. We thrive on being negative because all we know is failure. For you – take it with a grain of salt and keep being optimistic. I think it’s great we have people from all across the spectrum throwing their ideas and thoughts in the pot.

32. Bruce Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Don M~ Good posts; Logical and insightful. It is as you say….”its always so negative on here… even when they win…”.

    I’m amused at such faint praise with words “give him a free pass” from a few posters here when a player helped the Phillies win a game. It seems that some “critics” here have great reluctance to be gracious and give credit when due.

33. Geoff Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    I try not to be negative in the self fulfililng prophecy sense. when its not obvious i try and give them the benefit of the doubt. but all of this is really obvious. they really need to do more to help them out. baseball teams need to rely on free agents more than other sports teams do. thats why you do have to go and overpay for some people. not carlos silva, but others. colon would have been nice, livan hernandez was out there but nobody saw that coming, lohse is better than eaton, claudio vargas might even be better than eaton. i hope benson can help man but i will not count on him to do so and wouldnt if i was the gm. you have to have more backup than that.

34. Bruce Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Tim~

    “… remember most Philadelphians are negative by association. We thrive on being negative because all we know is failure…”.

    That’s an assumption on your part in accepting a stereotype image of “Philadelphians” as being incessantly negative. When the Phillies attracts 3 million fans at CBP during a season of struggles last year, that speaks volume of the support the team received.

35. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    AT LEAST WE’RE ALL CALM NOW… right??

    The latest trend in baseball is to stockpile your young talent, trade away your aging verterans for more young talent, and then re-sign all the young guys you can to buy-out their arbitration years and first few years of free agency… ala Hanley Ramirez, Ryan Braun, Carmona with the Tribe, etc.. Im sure teams that signed Carlos Beltran, Carlos Lee, and Alfonso Soriano.. are kicking themselves about making three of the biggest contracts in sports history on guys that are All-Stars, but probably not Hall-of-Fame type players.

    Its a tough road to walk because on one hand.. you never know what a prospect is going to turn into… Gavin Floyd… comes to mind. So if you can get a legit MLB player for a prospect you might do it. Its a risk, but you might just do it. But you wouldn’t trade the #1 prospect in your already weak organization for a guy that is a .500 pithcer. It just doesn’t make sense. Pitching is thin all across the MLB…everyone wants it… but the Phillies will have a few “top prospects” coming up in the next year or two… they might be great… they might be Brett Myers Jr.. you just dont know

36. Don M Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Golson looks like he’ll be good.. but he’s not ready yet.. if you trade Victorino…you might lose Burrell after this year… Jenkins is gone after next… Who the hell would play in our OF ?? I agree that he might be our best trade chip… (unless we can sell Myers as a closer to someone?) but if all your best all-around outfielder gets you in return is an average pitcher… i wouldn’t pull the Trigger.

    Sincerely,

    Don M -the GM- wannabee

37. OZ Says:
    May 21st, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    i’d pull the trigger for a BETTER starting pitcher in a heartbeat. remember our ownership fellas, we have this core for maybe two more years, and then we surely will plummet back to mediocrity, if not worse.

    i looooooooooove Vic, but he and a “prospect” for an upgraded pitcher, and a CHANCE to compete for the world series now. done. remember, the Phillies think we have good prosects, no one else does, e.g., according to Baseball America in the winter, Carrasco was the #56 prospect in the minors. that’s not great.

    Howard’s gonna get better, but if we can get the right taker, trade him for 2-3 prospect, young Pros, and our window of opportunity gets longer. see the Oakland A’s, or the Florida Marlins 2nd World Series team…

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    March 15th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

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