Phillies Nation

19 Responses to “Mad Dog And Muck Dog Bit Hard In Loss”

1. Jeffrey Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 11:09 am

   How exciting! Now we have two Adam Eatons!

2. Tim Malcolm Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 11:28 am

   As it stands we have a No. 1, two No. 4s and two No. 5s. And I’m being generous with Kendrick and Moyer.

   It’s very possible the Phils could make a deal for a No. 2/3 starter.

3. Geoff Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 11:29 am

   must have pitching. no excuses, no covering up, just go out and get pitching. they should have done this in the offseason and they went and did part of it, now they have to complete their upgrades. at this point, their rotation is so bad that i need TWO more starters and one more arm. A front end starter and a back end starter. myers going down to ineffectiveness fouled things up even worse. im sick of it. go get the friggin pitching that it takes to win a world series.

4. Greg V. Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 11:35 am

   Two Adam Eatons? I never thought I say this, but I actually prefer Eaton on the mound over Myers at this point! If we want to compete we need to get better pitchers. If Myers is better off in the pen (which I’m not even sure about that anymore), then move him there and make Chad Durbin a starter. I think Durbin is great in long relief but I think he has it in him to be a half decent starter and stop the bleeding a bit.

   Last night’s game should have been a win and I’m convinced if anyone else was starting we would have had the game in the bag. It’s a shame about Myers. He’s in a really bad spot right now and I just don’t see him coming out of it.

5. chris m Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am

   i cood see them going after arroyo..hes innefective right now but those are the type of guys we like…gillick really does suck…..we could of have lohse for nothing

6. Don M Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

   In his past 3 starts… Lohse has given up 19 ER, in only 17 Innings.. 22 hits, 8 walks, and 8 K’s… maybe we weren’t so dumb afterall.

   I can’t believe that you guys are bashing Gillick, or moves the Phillies didn’t make… who was out there that we didn’t get, and ever had a chance to, Randy Wolf?

   Werth and Lidge are proving to be pretty valuable, right? Moyer has done a pretty good job since he’s been here..

   in the last post, someone said Myers+ Madson, or a minor leaguer…. for Cabrera or Burnett… WHAT?? neither one of them has the talent of the upside of Myers… neither one of them is above a #3 starter in a good rotation.. and again, If they can sell Myers as a closer.. .they can probably get some decent prospects in return, from a team in need.. Brewers…etc…. Maybe Eddie Wade wouldn’t mind getting his boy back to be the Astros Closer??

7. chris m Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

   well didn’t gillick off lohse 3 yrs… I guess he is so dubm…look at what gavin floyd had been up to versus what freddy garcia is doing

8. Don M Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

   Every single Phillies fan ever wanted Gavin Floyd out of here… he always had great potential but the same reason Lidge is so good for us this year…. sometimes the just need a change of scenery…some different coaching…etc.

   Lohse is a steady pitcher…another career .500 guy, but a whole bunch of those don’t improve your team that much. I think im just getting pissed that people keep saying “WE ARE NOT A GOOD TEAM RIGHT NOW” etc… meanwhile, we’re above .500 our superstar is in a slump, our MVP just came off the DL…our #2 is looking terrible, Hamels aint exactly looking like CY YOUNG this year…. but they keep winning… due in part to the role players like Werth… who “GILLICK SUCKS” for getting…???

   People just need to be realistic… i’d trade Ryan Howard and Myers for A-Rod and Chien Ming Wang…. but its not realistic so why even mention it… we’re a good team, a move or two away from a real championship team… but we can contend with anyone in the NL.. so lets see what they do!!!

9. Bruce Says:
   May 15th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

   Now let’s see…. the Phillies are “not a good team” (see Mike T); their rotation is “bad” requiring wholesale changes (see Geoff & Tim (?) ); Howard “sucks” and needs to be traded (see multitude of posters here) and even players like Victorino, Felix, Jenkins, etc. have not escaped from the daily tirades posted on this site. All of this with “only” 121 games left in the season. Has anyone bother to see the standings in the NL East and can truly say one team is BETTER than the other? Patience is a virtue that some here don’t seem to possess. I understand the “need” to vent frustrations (thus the rants) and that naturally goes with blogging here. However, it would be nice to see a counterbalance to the dominant negativity here by highlighting the positives with Burrell, Utley, Rollins, Coste, Dobbs, Lidge, Gordon, Romero, etc.. It seems here that optimism is rare and when it is shown, it’s like a breath of fresh air.

   Now for the specifics of last night’s game. Yes, Myers obviously had a poor outing. Professional teammates and manager (not the bloggers here) as witnesses ON the field have claimed Myers to have “good stuff” (six strikeouts in less than 5 innings). That means there is a problem with pitch selection and control. I’m sure his batterymate, Coste needs to have better communication with Myers on selection (to keep hitters off balance). I think that’s why hitters like Escobar and Jones were sitting on the fastball (2 HRs in the first six pitches of the game). Obviously, Myers needs better control to keep his fastball DOWN and out of the hot zone. To use his breaking pitches judiciously when in the zone. Coach Dubee probably have said as much to Myers. Pitchers like hitters will have their “slumps”. I think it’s premature to rate any pitcher on just 9 starts (Myers included). So let’s have a little more patience with Myers. Phillie broadcaster, Tom McCarthy revealed during the game last night that he talked with John Smoltz about Myers. Smoltz mentioned that when he learned during spring training that he would become a starter (after closing last season), he became totally focused and prepared himself physically. That as closer, your mentality is to view starting as a ‘marathon” as oppose to closing as a “sprint”. I think there is a lesson in that statement for Myers.

   I didn’t see anyone here give some credit to the future hall of famer, Tom Glavine for keeping the Phillies hitters off balance in 5 and two/third effective innings. He was in vintage form with assortment of slow stuff and pinpoint control ( Geoff…does that remind you of a pitcher you detest, Jamie Moyer? ).

   Coste had his second 4 hit game this season (the other against Houston). He’s now hitting .339 with a .408 OBP. He is hitting equally well against lefties (.400) and righties (.318). Does anyone here feel that Coste deserves more playing time?

   BTW, Howard (everyone’s favorite whipping boy on this site) now has a six game hitting streak. His HR yesterday (his 8th) is the 2nd opposite field blast in the past four games. To me, that’s a definite sign he is keeping his hands back and allowing the pitch to come deeper in the hot zone.

10. Don M Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Bruce… VERY WELL SAID!!!

    Coste does deserve more playing time.. but the problem is that you want Ruiz as the starter.. Coste gets more playing time than your average “backup” cather.. so thats a thin line to walk already.

    Howard is def starting to come around… he’s going to start spraying the ball a little bit better I hope… Burrell started out so hot because he was using the whole field.. I’d like to see him continue to do that

11. Mike T. Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Bruce and Don M: It’s very nice to see that you’re satisfied with mediocrity.

    I want a World Series Championship in Philadelphia, and this team is not capable of doing that. Period.

12. chris m Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    most gm’s find guy like worth and dobbs…..gillick aint a genoius for doing that……look at most rosters…they all have a key bench player theyve picked up

13. Geoff Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    The standings thing is answered this way: this division is decent, but im trying to compare them to the rest of the NL and ask the question “can they get to and win the world series with this rotation?”. the answer is no. thats fairly obvious because weve seen this before. now, i want pitching help.

    the rotation: i mean, are you freakin SERIOUS?! the only person in the rotation with an ERA under 4 is hamels. and three of the five starters have an era OVER 5!!!!!! that is horrendous. thats not going to get it done in the playoffs. in the playoffs its all about pitching, and the phillies rotation didnt do enough. the rockies SHUT DOWN this offense and their rotation isnt full of world beaters but it was solid and steady. if the phillies offense isnt as good as it is THEY WOULD BE IN LAST PLACE.

    if they win the division with this rotation and their rotation era is still similar to what it is now that means the division is overrated. it also means theyd get smoked in the playoffs.

    look at the big picture. we would all agree that this is a team on the brink of world series rings. they gained playoff XP last year and now theyre ready to go for it all…and the only real significant upgrade they made has been brad lidge. who has been OUTSTANDING. but they didnt do anything else that bears any difference making significance on the field. feliz, jenkins arent “difference makers”. they needed to add another starter better than lohse and better than myers to take the next step. eaton has to go. if moyer fizzles out he has to go. if myers doesnt get right he has to go. inconsistent outings from therse guys isnt going to get you into the playoffs and it damn sure isnt going to win in the playoffs. IF THEY CANT GET IT DONE CONSISTENTLY THEY HAAVE TO BRING PEOPLE IN WHO CAN!

    thats fairly clear cut right?

    if they dont do that and dont bring in upgrades at the deadline, then they tells you one of two things that are equally probable:

    1 - theyre complete morons

    OR

    2 - they dont want to win because they dont want to spend the money it takes to win

    im sorry to yell, but i just want them to win a championship and theyve had the same problem for years and theyve never fixed it. its the same reason the eagles havent won a superbowl - the front office wont go the extra mile, wont do what it takes to assemble an elite team. when they do that, youll see me be a little more optimistic like i was about this flyers team. the flyers have weaknesses but they are good enough to get to where they are. i dont think the philles can reach the NLCS with this rotation, let alone the WS. gimme some more starters please.

14. Geoff Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    yes, the pitching issue is driving me off the wall and up it.

15. Don M Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Mike T & Chris M: I’m not satisfied with Mediocrity… I want a championship too… but the Phillies have made great strides in the past 3 years, and I think that they are just as good, this year as they were last… and they have the ability to make a move or two at the trade deadline this year, so I expect them to go deeper than last year.

    Werth is “proving his werth” as the headlines said.. really doing a great job, and I think played himself into a starting role for a playoff team… I think Dobbs led baseball in Pinch-hits and Pinch-hit RBIs last year??? So not every team has that… Phillies have one of the deepest benches in all of baseball, with Coste, Dobbs, Jenkins-or-Werth, a good baserunner in Taguchi, and Bruntlett who did a very nice job while Rollins was out… so to say that every team has kep players on/off the bench is wrong… the good teams do, and now we’re one of them… bad teams dont have deep benches, and that helps make them bad teams

    ALSO… its MAY 15, 2008… if you aren’t alright with the Phillies being 3 games over .500 at this point and really feel the need to bitch about it…. then that makes you one of the annoying Philadelphia fans that the rest of us have to hear about all the time… just stick with this team.. they are legit!! Maybe they won’t win it all, but the Marlins ‘03, the White Sox ‘05, they weren’t the greatest teams ever but they got hot at the right time and all their guys did their roles well

16. chris m Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    jenkins is good of the bench!!! i thought anderson for the mets had a better pinchhitting year then dobbs but maybe not……bruntlett did fine….not outstanding. half the teams out there have a player that cood of put those numbers up. i dont consider coste the bench player but ruiz is…ruiz is an average backup. and on taguchi. he makes our bench better? hes not a defensive player as weve seen him drop fly balls…instead of getting a pitcher gillick thought ANOTHER outfielder was nescasary…get off gillicks lap and grow some balls DON M!!!!!!!!! boo ya

17. Geoff Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    im not saying rthey wont make the playoffs or win the division. at least im not trying to say that. at this point of the year its clear theyll be in the race for the division and probably will win it or the wild card. but i dont think they have the pitching roatation for a WS win, thats all. im DEF not a negadelphian, because i think that becomes a self fulfillling prophecy if you get carried away with it. (see the whinining morning show host on 610 wip)

18. Lewisauce Says:
    May 15th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    I will stand behind this team 100 percent. The reason I get negative sometimes is because I get frustrated. This team is obviously good enough to compete in, and possibly win, the NL East.

    But that isn’t good enough. I WANT TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

    The Phillies’ rotation is not a World Series contending rotation. The offense could be (fingers crossed). The bullpen certainly looks as if it is (Madsen/Condrey aside, but one or both won’t be here in August). That leaves the glaring hole of the rotation. Myers’ ERA is at 5.91. That’s quickly approaching the Eatonsphere, and he was the opening day starter. He needs to get his poop together very soon. If he can’t, they have to do something else with him.

    Either way, the “negative” crowd is right. The front office didn’t do enough during the off-season to bolster the rotation. Now we’re stuck looking for help in-season. I think guys on here are quick to say we’re acting “negative” when we talk about hypothetical starting pitching acquisitions (which necessitate hypothetical trades of someone currently on the roster). What else are we going to do? Coddle Brett Myers? He’s making $8.5 million to be the staff ace and he’s stinking it up. He needs to act and play like an ace.

    Until he does, I will bitch about him.

19. Don M Says:
    May 17th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    CHRIS M.. “instead of getting a pitcher gillick thought ANOTHER outfielder was nescasary…get off gillicks lap and grow some balls DON M!!!!!!!!! boo ya ”

    I forget, which stud pitcher was available that “my boy” Gillick didn’t go out and get in the offseason??

    ***I was at a golf outing yesterday so didn’t get to read any of this***

    The fact that guys already forget that HE helped make the moves that got us to the postseason last year shows how ignorant you are to the game of baseball and what goes into it… right now you have the Marlins and Rays and Royals and whoever else playing great baseball.. we’re 5 games over .500 but according to half the people on here, “WE SUCK”

    I was bitching about Myers two weeks ago when people kept saying how he should win 16-20 games… and I pointed out that he’s never won more than 14…

    Do I wish that the Phillies would have gone crazy this offseason and given us a team that was favored to win the World Series… F*cking right I do, but what realistic moves could they have made that they didn’t make??

    What is the point in talking about a hypothetical trade of Ryan Howard for another teams ACE, and their #1 pitching prospect, and 8 more pitching prospects, AND whatever else… I understand what you guys mean, but I tried to point out that nobody in their right mind would give up top pitching (which is way harder to come by than home run power) Myers needs to pitch better, Howard needs to hit better… our bench is doing just fine (unless you guys need all-stars in each of the 5 bench spots too…)

    Feel free to bitch about the team after a loss, or about a Manuel bonehead move, etc…cause I do too…. but to knock this team and players when they are playing winning baseball makes you guys sound like little girls… and makes it no wonder why so many people hate this city

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