pitching is 50 percent for sure. offense is fine at 30 percent. id go maybe starting pitching 35 bullpen 15 or something like that. ill go ahead and revise my previous statements going with that as acceptable.

SO adding all of these numbers up, im interested to see how we can use this system, provided we can all agree upon one, to grade this team.

Good points. All I really want is impassioned, civil discussion.

I’m with you, and I hope Mike T. reads this. The reason I encouraged him to post his long post earlier was because I too want to see his baseball knowledge. “This is not a good team right now” is a fine statement, but I’m looking for his reasons so that we can all have a debate on it. Not bash or champion it, but talk about it.

“I’m beginning to think that, if the Phils were up by 26 runs in the bottom of the ninth with two out and “Lights-Out” Lidge on the mound, Mike T. would post something like: “There’s no way we win this game..”
“Dude, relax.”

I hope you don’t mind if I use your quote from a previous post, Lewissauce. I did refrained from name calling in my own posted reply to Mike T. I don’t resort to such childish behavior to make a point. I had pointed out that I and perhaps some others (yourself included?) wondered why Mike T incessantly used his one-liner as if in defiance with the words ..:” the Phillies are not a good team”… in almost every post WITHOUT once detailing in FULL his analysis (like Geoff so ably does in his posts). You say he makes “good points”. Well, since I’m fairly new here, I went to the archive for his past posts and unless I overlooked one, failed to find any detailed anaylsis of the team’s weaknesses and strengths. I put in a request with Mike T to do this so that I could possibly match his points with my own counterpoints. After all, blogging is not just about “venting” and “ranting”. It’s also an opportunity to have a civil discourse on opinions, ideas and info regarding the team on and off the field. Who knows? I might benefit from Mike T’s proclaimed knowledge of Major League baseball.

BTW, to Geoff, defense does play an important role in determining the team’s success (or failure) to make the playoffs. There is an old adage that says that a team’s key defensive strength is up the middle (catcher, 2B and CF). Thank goodness for Utley and Victorino. Ruiz is a work in progress.

Pitching (starters/bullpen)…. 50%
Offense …. 30%
Defense …. 20%

i dont put it out there as much because if yhou cant play defense then thats disgraceful. its assumed as part of being a big leaguer

I’m not trying to bash anyone, but there’s a line between good-naturedly giving out to someone, and personal insults. I hope people can understand the difference between bashing Mike T.’s opinions and bashing Mike T. His posts are open game. I’m just a plebeian poster on this site, but I’d like to think that the overall culture doesn’t stray toward calling each other names. (MASSIVE CAVEAT: Non-Phils fans who stray in here and insult us first, like that Pittsburgh asshole above, are fair game for a personal rectal shredding.)

Shit, I can’t believe I posted all that. I’m the least-morally righteous person I know, and I’m grandstanding.

Anyway, on to the pitching: 50-30-20, I dunno know about that. I don’t wanna assign numbers to it, but I’d go closer to equal thirds. That said, the bottom line hasn’t changed. Our starting rotation is not up to championship caliber, and we’ve got a little over two months to fix it. But will ownership take the necessary steps? (I’m still hoping they’ll surprise us.)

If you want to use percentages, it would be more like:
50% Starting Pitching
30% Offensive Lineup
20% Bullpen

Starting pitching wins Championships. So if the Phillies are missing that huge aspect of their game, and their offense continues to be as inconsistent as it has, we don’t have a chance.

The lineup/offense needs some minor tweaking in terms of personnel.

The back end of the bullpen has been getting it done for the most part.

The starting pitching is terrible overall.

Theres two out of three passing factors overall, so theyre not “bad”.

however. in order to do damage in the playoffs and win a world series., a team must have adequate personnel in all three of these things AND must have them all working in concert at the right time of year. Theyve been missing the third ingredient for years now and it has caused me to question the motives of ownership.

that starting pitching element is so glaringly bad and vacant in three spots in the rotation that its is maddening.

i just dont think that a team becomes BAD because they miss one of those three elements. were talking about a team thats five players short of a championship. two bullpen arms, one bench bat/5th outfielder, two starting pitchers. (id say three but there is no chance in hell theyre going to fix that this year)/ thats what they need to win.

if they dont make every effort to go out and get those elements, then the ownership DOES NOT WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.

Good teams have good pitching. The Phillies do not have good pitching – therefore, “The Phillies are not a _____ team”.

Im not defending the move to put hallday in, but its something you can get away with if you have some depth at the starting rotation.