Assessing The Starting Pitching Market

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Thu, June 19, 2008 12:07 PM

Here we are, June 19, and the Phillies sit two games ahead of the rest of the National League East. Sounds good, right?

Well there are holes with this team, and if the Phils want to win the World Series (which should be the goal this year), they need to fill those holes. Probably the largest of the holes is in the starting rotation.

We all thought Brett Myers would be the consummate No. 2 starter, but he’s been anything but, with an ERA over 5.00. Meanwhile, Jamie Moyer has been steady as he goes, good enough for a division winner. Adam Eaton has been surprisingly more effective this season, but probably not enough to be a top-three starter for a division winner. And Kyle Kendrick, despite keeping his team in the game, has never shown to be the type of pitcher you can hand the ball to and ensure victory.

Most championship-caliber teams carry three starters capable of going the distance if needed. Last year’s Red Sox had Josh Beckett, Daisuke Matzusaka and Jon Lester. The 2005 White Sox had John Garland, Mark Buehrle and Jose Contreras. The list goes on. In short, three is the magic number.

With the Phils offense and bullpen, they can get away with two lights-out starters, but right now they have one. It’s too far into the season to think Myers will turn it around, and Kendrick, Moyer and Eaton just don’t say eight innings.

With that known, the Phils will have to look at grabbing at least one starter, and one who can take the ball and possibly pitch eight to nine innings if needed. Here are the names everyone believes is available. I assessed each possibility, and you can read them below:

Odalis Perez, WAS: At 2-5 with a 4.09 ERA, he’s not a bad option, but he’s on the DL with shoulder tendinitis. I won’t go after injured guys in this situation.
Initial verdict: Pass

Boof Bonser, MIN: Now in the bullpen in Minnesota, he’s gone 3-6 with a 6.48 ERA. He’s young, but he’s not been that good of a pitcher so far in his career.
Initial verdict: Pass

Livan Hernandez, MIN: Since the Twins are in second place, I can’t see them trading Livan yet. He hasn’t been good (5.51 ERA); I mean, why would we want a guy with Myers’ numbers?
Initial verdict: Pass

Miguel Batista, SEA: He’s 3-8 with a 6.09 ERA playing in Safeco Field (7.60 ERA there).
Initial verdict: Pass

Randy Wolf, SD: Here’s where it gets interesting. He’s 5-5 with a 4.16 ERA, but away from Petco he’s a rough 1-4 with a 5.84. Still, he knows the team and city, he’s been cajoled before by the team and might be able to pass as a No. 3 ahead of Kendrick and Moyer.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: He’d probably slide into the spot between a No. 2 and Kendrick, but the Phils would still need to get another starter. Wolf isn’t enough on his own (I could see the Phils getting Wolf and nothing else, of course).

What it would take: As Wolf is on a one-year deal, it wouldn’t take much. Probably a low-level prospect or organizational filler, with the Phils paying most of his $9M (includes incentives).

Final verdict: Definitely take a shot.

Paul Byrd, CLE: He’s 3-7 with a 5.21 ERA thus far for the Indians, at age 37. He was great down the stretch last year for Cleveland, but he doesn’t strike me as the kind of pitcher they’d need to fill a hole.
Initial verdict: Pass

Gil Meche, KC: Kansas City GM Dayton Moore said Meche is unavailable, but for giggles, we’ll consider him. He’s 4-8 with a 5.12, but last year he was pretty good at 3.67. Why so bad this year? Supposedly he’s bad against his division — against everyone else, pretty good. Still, he’s almost untouchable.
Initial verdict: Pass

Greg Maddux, SD: The real Mad Dog is at 3.31 with San Diego, and of course, he’s pitching much better at Petco than anywhere else. Like Wolf, he’s worth the flier, and he’s a one-year deal, so he wouldn’t be worth too much.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: Like Wolf, he’d be a good No. 3 option, but the Phils would need something compatible along with him.

What it would take: The Pads might want more than filler for Maddux, so be prepared to give up maybe a Josh Outman for a half-year of Maddux.

Final verdict: If he doesn’t cost too much, go hard.

Joe Blanton, OAK: Early on Blanton was rumored to go to the Phils; right now he’s 3-10 with a 4.81 ERA. He’s been a little better than that for his career, but nothing dominant. Wolf and Maddux serve as better options.
Initial verdict: Pass

Bronson Arroyo, CIN: He’s an “innings eater,” but the Phils have far too many of them. With a 5.55 ERA, he doesn’t signal filling a hole at all. He’s a bit overrated, really.
Initial verdict: Pass

Daniel Cabrera, BAL: With a 4.45 ERA, he has definitely looked better than last year, but his K numbers are down. He’s on a one-year deal and is arbitration eligible after 2008, so …
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: Like Wolf and Maddux, he’s maybe a No. 3 in this rotation, so they’d still need a bigger arm.

What it would take: More than Wolf and Maddux. Probably a low-level prospect with an Outman type. That’s worth it if the Phils take on his arbitration for 2009, which, is he really worth that hassle?

Final verdict: Not worth it, really.

Rich Harden, OAK: Having a huge year, he’s 4-0 with a 2.53 ERA. He’s signed on through 2009, though that year is a club option, so the Phils would have to pick up the option to make it work.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: He represents the first real shot at a dominant No. 2 behind Hamels.

What it would take: Knowing Billy Beane, the king’s ransom. Start with Carlos Carrasco and Adrian Cardenas. Seriously.

Final verdict: See what it would take. If Beane wants the farm, decline, but if he wants even a sliver less, go hard.

Brad Penny, LAD: The once dominant ace is struggling this year, with a 5.88 ERA and 1.599 WHIP. Is it a classic case of Myers syndrome? Maybe, but Penny has proven himself more than Myers. I’d take the risk and talk.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: Probably as a No. 3, to be safe. It could go either way.

What it would take: Probably too much, considering the Dodgers aren’t out of any race right now. We could be looking at Carrasco, Cardenas and Outman, or something of that extent.

Final verdict: He might not be worth a lot of trouble, but proceed with caution.

Derek Lowe, LAD: He’s right on his LA average with a 3.90 ERA this season. The ground ball pitcher would be nice to have at the Cit, but be warned: Away from Dodger Stadium he’s not terribly good.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: Probably as a No. 3.

What it would take: He’s in a contract year, so not as much as Penny. Still, the Phils might have to part ways with Carrasco and a lower-level prospect.

Final verdict: If he’s cheap enough, go to it.

AJ Burnett, TOR: With his 4.90 ERA, his $11M per year contract and his poor attitude, I say no sir.
Verdict: Pass

Ben Sheets, MIL: I can’t see Milwaukee putting him on the block, but let’s say he is. He’s 8-1 with a 2.74 ERA. He’s healthy. Finally. He’s signed through 2009, which is nice. He is $10M per year, which isn’t quite. But he is proven enough.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: He’s a No. 2 behind Hamels.

What it would take: Plenty. The Brewers would want Carrasco and an outfielder. Maybe Shane Victorino, but maybe Greg Golson. One more bigger-name prospect would have to go in, as well. Probably an Outman or maybe James Happ. Still, I don’t know if that’s enough.

Final verdict: If Vic is involved, it’s not worth it. Besides, it’s very slim that the Brewers would want to rid him.

Erik Bedard, SEA: The name most rumored with the Phillies. He’s good, but poor on the road this season. So far in 2008 he’s 4-4 with a 4.14 ERA. Not bad. Not great. But not bad.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: Probably as the No. 2, and maybe in the NL he’d thrive.

What it would take: He’s not a free agent until 2010, so obviously the M’s would want a treasure chest. Carlos Carrasco would be the top chip, and Victorino might be right there with him. Maybe the Phils can get away with packaging Dom Brown or Michael Taylor with Carrasco. Cardenas is possible, but the M’s do have young Jose Lopez at 2B.

Final verdict: Proceed with caution. Bedard isn’t a sure thing, but he’s better than most.

CC Sabathia, CLE: The prize of the market is Sabathia, who is 5-8 with a 4.26 ERA. Of course, he projects as better than that, and is more of a sure thing than anyone in the market.
Initial verdict: Talk

Where he’d fit: He’s a No. 2. Maybe an ace.

What it would take: Seeing as Sabathia is a free agent after 2008, it’s more about if the Phils are willing to go long-term with Sabathia. If they do, say goodbye to Pat Burrell and probably Brad Lidge. And it would be tough to hold onto Ryan Howard and Hamels. Could the Phils throw Burrell into the deal? Sure. Would he accept? Maybe not. Would the Indians? If the Phils pay the bulk of it. A package of Burrell, Carrasco and Cardenas could do it, and could possibly free up room to re-sign Lidge and Sabathia. Possibly. But do you want to give up Burrell this year? Ahhh …

Of course, this is all the test to see if the Phils can be a big-market team. If they were to go all out with Sabathia while keeping Lidge and long-terming Hamels, we’d finally see this team is ready to step up. But really, are they? Who knows.

Final verdict: See what it would cost, then, move accordingly. If they can give up mainly Carrasco and Cardenas and decide they’d re-sign Sabathia longterm, then do it.

So my final order of preference:

  • CC Sabathia
  • Rich Harden
  • Erik Bedard
  • Derek Lowe
  • Greg Maddux
  • Randy Wolf
  • Brad Penny
  • Ben Sheets
  • Daniel Cabrera

Permalink Comments (82) | Trackback (0)

82 Responses to “Assessing The Starting Pitching Market”

  1. ryan Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    if the phillies do acquire a new starter, which i think they will, the new guy will most certainly not be replacing Brett Myers. Brett has to work his way through this, and he is not leaving this rotation. i guarantee it. Either Kendrick of Eaton will be the one to lose his spot in the rotation.

    I would like the phillies to go after Randy Wolf who is having a healthy season and pitching very well, or Ben Sheets who is a legitimate no. 1 when healthy.

    Another idea would be to acquire another reliever and let Chad Durbin, who is pitching very very well thus far this season, let him try his hand at starting, which is something he did very well for Detroit when they needed him to.

  2. ryan Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    i’d also like to add that i don’t want Sabbathia. I don’t like giving up top prospects (i especially don’t want to give up Carlos Carrasco) for a rental player. And i don’t want to sign him long term because i see alot of Barry Zito in him.

  3. Tim Malcolm Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    I could see them demoting Kendrick to AAA to work on his changeup, though it may not be the best move. Kendrick has been a solid starter during his year here.

    Myers? I’d rather they pop him in the bullpen as a setup man, but he won’t go for it.

    Eaton I don’t want out of the rotation. He’s finding his way and *could* become the No. 3 they’d need. It’s possible.

    Moyer I always thought could be a delicious middle-relief option, but it is a radical idea.

    Also, as far as the farm is concerned, I’d make Marson my A1 untouchable. Carrasco can be touched; as much I don’t want him out of here, he is the big chip.

  4. Tim Malcolm Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    I think Harden is the best logic play for the Phils, but with Beane you’re asking to give up a lot. It’ll be interesting to see what Beane is looking for in return.

  5. Paul Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Great post.

    I think Blanton would be on the “talk” list. He’s still young, 27. And he’s put up a pretty respectable career in the AL. Here’s thinking he’d be even a bit better in the NL. Worth a shot IMHO.

  6. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    I don’t think Sabathia has Zito written all over him. He had 3 bad outings in a row and is now pitching like an ace. I don’t want Sabathia though, and I’ll tell you why. Look at his post-season stats. He may not have Zito syndrome, but he does have A-Rod syndrome, if you know what I mean which I’m sure you all do. I want Harden and Sheets the most, or Harang who wasn’t mentioned and I think would be available. Mad Dog would be really good because I think he’d be impressive down the stretch and in the post-season because he does have experience and big game potential. Him and Moyer would give you that veteran leadership pitching you need. A good playoff pitching roster would be

    Hamels
    phantom #2
    Moyer
    Eaton(Assuming he stays the way he is.)

    Myers can be a good bullpen innings eater, and also one thing I noticed about the post season is that coaches are quick to go to the bullpen. They take no risks. You can’t expect a starter to go 8 or 9 innings in the post season. 6 or 7 is still gonna be good, especially with our nasty bullpen. If we can get 3 starters that can get us into the 6th inning with the lead then the WS could potentially be ours.

    I agree Kendrick should be moved down to AAA to work on his change up so that he can come back next year and be nastier than ever. Maybe he can call Webb and get some advice.

  7. Tim Malcolm Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Just saw this on Athletics Locker:

    “The Philadelphia Phillies look like a perfect trading partner for the A’s because they could use a starting pitcher and a lefty reliever (Alan Embree).

    So here it goes, the A’s would send Rich Harden and Alan Embree to the Phillies for 2B Adrian Cardenas, SS Jason Donald, 3B Travis Mattair and righty reliever Joe Bisenius.

    The major league team would miss both Harden (4-0, 2.53 ERA, 1.18 WHIP) and Alan Embree (1-2, 3.86 ERA, 1.29 WHIP) but the upside of the rest of the trade is way too good to pass up.”

    I’d do that in a heartbeat. Since the two major chips are blocked by Utley and Rollins, and the Phils could hang on with 3B until Hewitt is ready (as long as he shows it), it works well. Embree fills the LOOGY hole.

  8. jc Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    i agree if i am giving up a king’s ransom i’d like it to be on a guy i know will be here the following year

  9. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Do you think the A’s would do that? I’d be the happiest person alive.

  10. Tim Malcolm Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Well the A’s need infield help. Who knows.

    BTW, MLB Trade Rumors said the Phils have scouted Roy Oswalt. Thoughts? Better than Myers, absolutely, but is he still a No. 1 or 2?

  11. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    I will drive those guys to Oakland myself. I can’t believe they would do that deal though. They got ALOT for Haren and Swisher this past offseason. What is Harden’s contract situation?

  12. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Griffin, I’ll chip in gas money if you’re going to drive them to Oakland.

  13. Rosco Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    This phenominal…it’s like a Christmas list…but seeing as Phlly upper management is what it is, I don’t think I believe in Santa Claus.

  14. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Oswalt used to be incredible, Myers used to be pretty good. Oswalt could just want out of Houston…

  15. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    that is a good call with this list. ive soured on blanton and bedard. anything less than harden or sabathia or sheets and youd still need another guy. you really do need a stud in the playoffs behind hamels.

    i heard they scouted oswalt and mad dog. thats not bad i guess.

    as for this:

    “So here it goes, the A’s would send Rich Harden and Alan Embree to the Phillies for 2B Adrian Cardenas, SS Jason Donald, 3B Travis Mattair and righty reliever Joe Bisenius.”

    if rich harden stays healthy and works out and you keep him?
    i will take turns driving those guys to oakland with griffin and phil AND pay for one third of the gas money.

  16. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    If the Phils were able to pull off that A’s Trade, I’d do it in a heartbeat. That would be unreal. I can’te believe we’d pull that off with nobody ready to step in for Oakland right now, though.

  17. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Hell, I’d even throw TJ Bohn into that trade for Oakland just so they got some MLB at bats in the trade? :)

  18. Don M Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    I think its funny to question C.C. Sabathia as a #1…. the guy is 2nd in the majors in Ks…and he won the AL CY YOUNG last year… I would take him in a heartbeat. especially for half a season, when most on the NL guys don’t have a book on him.

    Oswalt would be a PERFECT #2 here… a guy with playoff experience.

    I think Harden is the guy.. you know there are going to be LOTS of talks going on about a Phillies- A’s trade over the next few weeks

  19. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    with them going out to oakland im sure that will be the case. you know theyll be talking. beane will try to push blanton over on us but i hope it wont work and th ephils counter with harden/embree for that phillies package

  20. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    im all for harden is they dont give up too much. i definitely do NOT support giving up the farm for someone with injury history like that though.

  21. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    yeah, I think Gillick will be very trigger shy when trading for an injury ridden pitcher. He got burnt on Garcia who didn’t have anywhere near Harden’s injury histroy. If you can get him for that package though….

  22. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    agreed. and WHOEVER the freakin MORON it was that examined freddy garcia when they got him..DO NOT LET THAT GUY WITHIN 100 MILES OF RICH HARDEN WHEN THEY GIVE HIM A PHYSICAL.

  23. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    that guy shouldve alreayd been fired

  24. Jeremy Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    Better keep a spot on the DL warm for either Harden or Sheets.

    If the Phils can get Sabathia to agree to an extension as part of a deal, I’d be willing to entertain Victorino as part of the deal.

  25. Pat Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Long time reader, first time poster… I am happy to finally find a site that truely reflects my passion for the Phils.

    Here are my thoughts: Obviously we need pitching, watching the series between the Marlins and the Mets, they struggle against left handers. Also, with our ballpark, we need a pitcher who can record K’s or gets a lot of groudouts… thats why Randy Wolf (flyball pitcher) may not be our best option. Also, because of our market, we can’t get involved in a bidding war against the Yankees, who are also looking for pitching.

    My analysis:

    CC Sabathia–Let the yankees break the bank.
    Rich Harden–If the A’s are willing to make that trade, we should be all over it and have it complete by the time our series at Oakland is over.
    Erik Bedard–This would by overall #1, meets all the criteria.
    Derek Lowe–another Myers/Eaton
    Greg Maddux–Believe it or not, he would be one of my top guys, he gets a lot of groundball outs and it would not cost the Phils too much.
    Randy Wolf–too many flyballs that will turn into homeruns at CBP
    Brad Penny–Injury Issues.
    Ben Sheets–Let the Yankees break the bank.
    Daniel Cabrera–Pass, he is getting rocked his last couple of starts.
    Roy Oswalt–2 years ago he was untouchable, could he be another Brad Lidge for us?

    I also think Bedard and Oswalt may be useful beyond this year, as we probably have a 3 year window to get to the world series with our current core players.

    If the proposed Harden deal you mentioned falls through, I would go after 1) Bedard, 2) Oswalt and 3) Maddux. Any thoughts?

  26. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    I agree with Pat, though if we can’t get Harden I’d rather go after 1) Harang, 2) Oswalt and 3) Maddux.

    If the A’s are going to move Embree with Harden, I’d be willing to entertain any 3-4 of our prospects except for Marson and Carrasco. Those two, at least in a deal for Harden, should be untouchable. Harden WILL break down again, it is just a matter of when. He’s so good when healthy, however, that it’s worth rolling the dice, especially if we get a reliable lefty reliever as part of the bargain.

    If we can’t get Harden, I’d like to see them go hard after Harang, if he is available. It may take too much to get him, but I’d call the Reds before I went after Oswalt or Maddux. As for those two, Oswalt obviously has more potential to dominate, though the marked increase in his WHIP this year and last is cause for some concern. Maddux, if he can be had for as little as suggested here, is a steal. He’s still got his trademark command over all his pitches and I’d sure as heck rather give him the ball in the postseason than Myers, Kendrick, or Eaton.

  27. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Forgot to mention…the more I hear and read about Bedard, the less I like the idea of getting him, especially given the cost of doing so. Seattle is going to want top-flight payment, considering what they gave up to get him. I would also be concerned that he’s going to thrive under the pressure of a pennant race in Philly. Highly subjective, I know, but it seems like cause for concern given his apparent propensity to sulk in the clubhouse.

  28. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Ah, Pete. since you have posted today and everyone is talking about it. i just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that we need another starting pticher…

  29. Rick Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Hey Tim! Can you keep us posted on how Kris Benson does today? I expect he’ll only pitch an inning or two but would like to know how he progresses. I also expect another tendonitis flare-up after this rehab appearance.

  30. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    We could probably use 2 SPs

  31. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    yeah. i actually would feel safer if they got a solid 3rd guy and a solid 2nd guy and moved myers to the pen. a little pipe dreamish though

  32. chris m Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    ya 2 SP is not possible…the only way is to make a trade for 1 and bring durbin the the rotation and myers to the pen… only way to get 2 new SP

  33. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    I dunno…if we can trade Outman for Maddux and make the Harden deal Tim mentioned above, I would do it in a heartbeat. That’s 2 SPs without completely crippling the farm system. Send Myers to the ‘pen and Kendrick to AAA to work on his stuff for next year when Maddux is gone.

  34. TwoTonsOfIrony Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    What is the time frame on expecting any of this to happen? I would have to think that jumping on this train early is the way to go, try and preempt the Yankees and such, there are a ton of teams looking for SP as there always is, could you sneak in the beginning and get away from the bidding wars?

  35. Josh Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    I’d just like to point out the Oswalt has been keeping pace with Myers on HRs allowed this season. If he came to the Phils, CBP would not be very friendly to him.

  36. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Maddux would be a great rent-a-pitcher if you can get him for next to nothing.

  37. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Also, the A’s might want the likes of Dobbs if they need infield help. How would you guys feel about letting go of Dobbs?

  38. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    I think a lesser prospect could and should replace dobbs in any deal. dobbs seems to be one of those people you need to keep around for the playoffs i dont know why. hes a good utility man and a great pinch hitter when used within a defined role.

  39. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    I agree Geoff, I think Dobbs is the best utility player in baseball. To get rid of Dobbs would be really bad.

  40. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    hell do whatever you ask of him, he can play several positions. hes like chad durbin. you need team-first versatile utility players/pitcher to win championships just as you need leaders and stars.

  41. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Agreed. As crazy as this sounds I believe that Dobbs/Durbin is as important to this teams success as Hamels/Utley.

  42. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    The Oakland A’s are keeping their fingers crossed that they can trade righty starting pitcher Rich Harden before he breaks down again, and let’s face it…..it’s only a matter of time. The Philadelphia Phillies look like a perfect trading partner for the A’s because they could use a starting pitcher and a lefty reliever (Alan Embree). So here it goes, the A’s would send Rich Harden and Alan Embree to the Phillies for 2B Adrian Cardenas, SS Jason Donald, 3B Travis Mattair and righty reliever Joe Bisenius. The major league team would miss both Harden (4-0, 2.53 ERA, 1.18 WHIP) and Alan Embree (1-2, 3.86 ERA, 1.29 WHIP) but the upside of the rest of the trade is way too good to pass up. Cardenas is the #2 prospect in the Phillies’ entire minor league system according to Baseball America’s Prospect Handbook but his future in Philly is blocked by Chase Utley. The 20-year old lefty swinging Cardenas has played in 45 games in A-Ball this season and he is 56 for 173 (.324 avg, .892 OPS) with 31 runs scored, 4 homers, 15 RBIs and 8 stolen bases. Jason Donald is a 23-year old shortstop with a good eye in the minors which fits into the A’s style of offense. The righty swinging Donald has played in 55 games in AA-ball this season and he is 63 for 211 (.299 avg, .862 OPS) with 31 runs scored, 6 homers, 30 RBIs and 7 stolen bases. Travis Mattair had a big upside but he’s a raw prospect right now. The 19-year old righty swinging Mattair has layed in 63 games in A-ball this year and he is 54 for 220 (.245 avg, .620 OPS) with 28 runs scored, 1 homer, 27 RBIs and 3 stolen bases. 25-year old righty reliever Joe Bisenius has had control issues this season walking 16 batters in only 24.1 innings between AA+AAA this year. He has pitched in 18 games (0 starts) in AA+AAA ball this season and he is 0-2 with a 3.70 ERA and a 1.40 WHIP. This is the kind of trade that would really help both teams as it would give the Phillies what they need to win now. Plus, the A’s would get quality infield prospects that could really help in possible positions of need down the road.

    Tim mentioned this earlier, but here’s the article from Athetlic’s Locker about the trade for Harden. Gas could be $10 a gallon and I’d still chip in on the gas money.

  43. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    I wouldn’t want to trade Dobbs, but if you could get Harden/Embree for Dobbs/Donald and 1 or 2 B-or-below prospects, I think the Phils should do it. I find it hard to believe that a utility player (even a top-flight one) will be more important come October than a SP with Cy-level stuff and a desperately needed LHP for the pen.

  44. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    so it’s settled, Geoff and Phil are pitching in for gas and I’ll drive those dudes out to Oakland. Someone get Gillick and Beane on the phone, let’s make it happen!!!

  45. Lewisauce Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    I don’t think the A’s or anyone else is going to be knocking on the Dobbs door. Don’t get me wrong; I love Greg Dobbs, and I think he’s the best pinch-hitter in baseball. But I think serious discussions will center around prospects and possibly Victorino. I don’t think we need to worry about Dobbs too much.

    But if it comes down to it, and Billy Beane wants Dobbs and a couple prospects for Harden, I’d do it.

    I think the Phillies need to steer way, way clear of Bedard. Everything I hear about the guy says he’s an absolutely shitty human being to be around. Hopefully one of the New York teams will ignore the poison he brings and go after him.

  46. Lewisauce Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    I will pitch in for gas as well.

  47. chris m Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    best deal we could do is here… lowe seems like it would cost too much for a rent a picture

  48. chris m Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    pitcher*

  49. danny Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    HAHAHA.

    We are so close.

    The Embree/Harden deal would make us contenders.

  50. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    i got scared away from bedard too, but because his manager said he has crummy stamina

  51. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Is anyone concerned about Harden’s health? If they get him maybe they should rotate him and Myers/Kendrick/Corrasco or someone else so that he’s pitching every 10 days instead of every 5 to make sure he’s healthy for the postseason. Anyone else agree with that or maybe think we should just do a 6 man rotation to make sure all of our pitchers are healthy for the postseason? Hamels is eating up a ton of innings and he has an injury history himself.

  52. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    i think they should switch to a 6 man rotation by bringiong up someone from the minors. leave durbin as a long reliever and add another guy to the rotation. i like the 6 man rotation because if you have reliever with stamina and endurance over a season then you can get away with less of them. 6 starters allows more rest for your starters AND allows them to go harder each start. pretty good idea.

    i am worred about hardens health but hes the best and cheapest option that you will be able to keep AND you wiont throw away your whole farm

  53. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    I don’t think we should do a 6 man rotation unless we get an injury prone starter like Harden or Sheets.

  54. Geoff Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    tahts what i mean. IF you get one of those guys then you bring someone up and adjust accordingly

  55. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Yeah, once in the playoffs you go 4 like people normally do. MAn, Hamels, Harden, Moyer, Eaton(assuming he’s still pitching well) or Myers(if he finds his A game again) would be a really good rotation for the playoffs.

  56. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Just food for thought, here is what Chris Harris of ESPN says about Brett Myers : “To some extent, I think Myers is suffering from a little Daisuke-itis, which is to say that he’s got several good pitches and isn’t really committing to any of them. With him, it hasn’t been a case of bad luck, it’s been a case of homers: As of this writing, he has allowed a major-league-worst 20, contributing to his 5.58 ERA and his 1.54 WHIP. The weird thing is that Myers’ strikeouts aren’t down (he’s got 79 in 92 innings), nor is his velocity. He’s just way too hittable, especially via the long ball. After two nice outings on May 30 and June 4, he’s been rocked in each of his past two starts. The guy’s 27, shows no signs of being hurt, is fanning hitters and hasn’t completely lost his control. I’m not saying he’s the second-half Cy Young winner waiting to happen, and I’d get him on my fantasy bench for the time being. But Myers fits the profile of a guy who’ll turn it around.”

  57. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    I sure hope so. He has good stuff and if he’s bringing his A game he’s a legit #2.

  58. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Agreed, the Phils need him badly. We just have to hope he turns it around.

  59. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Regardless if Myers turns it around I still think we need another starter of ace calibur.

  60. Gavin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    All of us agree that Harang, Harden, Oswalt, CC etc. would be freaking awesome. But I dont think the phils brass know what to do with Myers. I’m not saying that sending him to the minors, the pen, or trading him would be wrong, but I dont think they know what to do. They guy is a mental midget and he could never pitch again if they sent him to be the set up man.

    Last year it was because they needed him, this year it would be b/c they dont need him. Just my opinion.

  61. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    I think we can still stumble to the playoffs with him in our rotation, especially if we get another #1 or #2 type starter, but I’d rather not stumble to the playoffs would rather be dominant and storm through the NL east to the playoffs. He may figure out his problems and become dominant or he may continue to be a burden in our starting rotation. Time will tell.

  62. bob Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    tim malcom for president

  63. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/06/starks-latest-1.html#comments

  64. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    That was an interesting link. I hope to God the Phillies don’t go after a gonad like Ryan Freel who hustles, gets concussed and does little else.

    Also, the name Jarrod Washburn is just scary. Stay away, stay far, far away.

  65. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    I agree Griffin, same with Bronson the rock star Arroyo. I am still interested in Bedard and think he’d make a great #2. I’d prefer a righty, and I’d prefer someone that wasn’t a dick, but Bedard isn’t off my list of guys I want.

  66. chris m Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    why freel i dont understand?

  67. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Maybe a cheap pinch runner/defensive substitution?

  68. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    yeah, I don’t understand how Freel would fit either. He can play CF and some infield positions (but not well). He’s not even an upgrade over Bruntlett. I don’t know why or how the Phillies have been linked with him.

    and yes, Arroyo is scary also.

  69. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    I keep seeing Harang brought up here. There is NO CHANCE the Reds trade Harang. NONE.

  70. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    The only reason the Phils go after Freel is if they are resigned to letting a Werth, Dobbs, or Vic go in a trade for more pitching.

  71. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Why do you say that Scot? I think his arb is up next year. They’re building on youth right now.

  72. Griffin Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    “I keep seeing Harang brought up here. There is NO CHANCE the Reds trade Harang. NONE.”

    what if we said “please”?

    we’ll give you Carlos Ruiz!!! come on Dusty, he hustles, he’s a gamer!!

  73. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Phil,

    Ther building on youth, definitely but Harang isn’t that old. And there is no way that they want Bronson Arroyo to be the backbone veteran leader of that rotation. They know that Harang is at least top 10 pitcher in the NL when on (his record this year is a total fluke), and will be a bargain at whatever they pay for him after this year. A Harang, Volquez, Cueto top of the rotation for the next 3-4 years is sickeningly good. Throw Arroyo in their instead, not so good.

    The Reds are very close to being a playoff contender. Harang is a huge part of that plan.

  74. Pete Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    If we trade anything more than a bag of used jock straps for Arroyo or Washburn, Gillick is insane.

  75. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    I get that Scot, but I still think they’ll trade Harang. He’s now hated in Cincinnati and I think they’re going to trade him off to get more prospects. Homer Bailey has good stuff too and will be in that rotation next season and will be good.

  76. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Where in the world do you get Harang being hated in Cincy? I watch them and follow them whenever I’m not watching the Phils and never got that impression. I have several friends who are Reds season ticket holders and they certainly don’t hate him.

  77. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Something I heard from a Reds fan, maybe he’s not. I’m speculating that Harang will be on the trade block, I’m probably wrong, maybe it’s just a wish.

  78. scot Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Yeah, I’m really curious now. I mean I wonder, and I know this is awful, if there is some riff between him and the younger latino and african american pitchers.

  79. Phil Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    I doubt that would be the case.

  80. Lewisauce Says:
    June 19th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Ryan Freel? Jared Washburn?

    What are they smoking in Gillick’s office?

    Freel’s a decent player, but not a substantial upgrade (if an upgrade at all) over what we got.

    Weird.

  81. Brad Pitt Says:
    June 20th, 2008 at 5:43 am

    Just add Maddux, don’t give up too much of our future, and win with whoever we have.

  82. George Says:
    March 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Does anyone else have any experience with this?

Leave a Reply

Ashburn Award


2009 Philadelphia Phillies

Partner

ad:

Harry Kalas Tribute:


Share your memories of Harry with fellow fans of the great man.

tickets:

Buy MLB baseball tickets online for the best seats in Philadelphia! Find Phillies tickets, Flyers tickets, Eagles tickets, 76ers tickets and great deals on World Series tickets at Coast to Coast, as well as popular concert tickets, theater tickets, NASCAR tickets, baseball playoffs tickets and NCAA tickets right here. We're your source for Philadelphia events!

phillies tickets:

Looking for Philadelphia Phillies tickets? We have tickets to every Philadelphia Phillies game at home at Citizen’s Bank Park and on the road. We also have tickets to other Philadelphia sporting events, including the Philadelphia Eagles and the Philadelphia Flyers. In fact, we are your source for sports tickets, concert tickets and theater tickets.

tickets:

Philadelphia Phillies Tickets
Nationals Tickets
World Series Tickets
Red Sox Tickets
Yankees Tickets
White Sox Tickets
Braves Tickets
Orioles Tickets
Padres Tickets
Philadelphia Eagles Tickets
Citizens Bank Park History

advertising:

Philadelphia Phillies Tickets
MLB Tickets
St. Louis Cardinals Tickets
Philadelphia Ticket Broker
Philadelphia Flyers Tickets
Villanova Wildcats
Basketball Tickets
Chicago White Sox Tickets
Boston Red Sox Tickets
New York Yankees Tickets
Concert Tickets

bladvertising:

Philadelphia Phillies tickets, Boston Red Sox Tickets, NY Yankees Tickets, Chicago Cubs Tickets, Baseball Tickets, Philadelphia Ticket Broker, Jimmy Buffett Tickets, Shakira Tickets, Dave Matthews Tickets, Eric Clapton tickets, Bruce Springsteen Tickets, Rolling Stones Tour, Philadelphia Eagles Tickets, Chicago Bears Tickets, Football Tickets, Super Bowl Tickets, Theater Tickets


the googles:

tags:

Phils news:

MLB.com: Phillies Update
Phils Trade Rumors
ESPN News
MLB Trade Rumors
Inquirer Phillies News
Phillies Transactions
Phillies Free Agent Tracker
Scout.com - Phillies

academic:

Baseball Diplomacy
Baseball and the American City
Gospel on the Mound: Our National Pastime and the Culture of Religion

Mitchell Nathanson
Economic Issues in Sports
Business of Baseball Data and Documents
Baseball Hall of Fame Research Department
Phillies Wikipedia

tickets:

2009 salaries:

Charlie Manuel - $3 million
Ryan Howard - $19 million
Chase Utley - $15 million
Roy Halladay - $15.75 million (Toronto pays $6 million)
Brad Lidge - $11.5 million
Raul Ibanez - $11.5 million
Jimmy Rollins - $7.5 million
Jayson Werth - $7 million
Cole Hamels - $6.65 million
Jamie Moyer - $6.5 million
Placido Polanco - $5.25 million
Joe Blanton - $5.475 million
Ryan Madson - $4.5 million
J.C. Romero - $4 million
Shane Victorino - $3.125 million
Chad Durbin - $1.635 million
Greg Dobbs - $1.35 million
Ross Gload - $1 million
Brian Schnieder - $1 million
Juan Castro - $750,000
Clay Condrey - $650,000
Chris Snelling - $450,000
Kyle Kendrick - $445,000
Carlos Ruiz - $425,000
Chris Coste - $415,000
Francisco Rosario - $395,000
Mike Zagurski - $392,500
Fabio Castro - $383,000
J.D. Durbin - $380,000
Anderson Garcia - $380,000
Scott Mathieson - $380,000
J.A. Happ - $380,000
Yoel Hernandez - $380,000
Scott Mathieson - $380,000
Chris Roberson - $380,000
Brian Sanches - $380,000
Zach Segovia - $380,000
Matt Smith - $380,000
Joe Thurston - $380,000

Phillies Contracts and Salaries

advertising:

Front Row USA has premium concert tickets for your favorite artists - The Eagles Tickets, Madonna Tickets and Robert Plant Tickets. Check out our inventory of Philadelphia Phillies Tickets, Florida Marlins Tickets, Miami Dolphins Tickets and Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tickets and Orange Bowl Tickets.

advertising:

Ticket Brokers is your premier ticket broker for Broadway theatre tickets, baseball tickets, football tickets, basketball tickets and concert tickets. Buy Cubs playoffs tickets behind home plate, or enjoy an afternoon in the Cubbies bleacher seats. We are also a Super Bowl Ticket Broker, with a large inventory of Bears Tickets.

advertising:

Phillies tickets
Pirates tickets
MLB All Star Game tickets
Cubs tickets
Yankees tickets
Steelers tickets
Eagles tickets
Patriots tickets
Giants tickets
Chargers tickets
76ers tickets
Flyers tickets,
Penguins tickets

tickets:

AC Milan Tickets
Real Madrid Tickets
Rugby Tickets
Ashes Tickets
Six Nations Tickets
O2 Arena
Michael Jackson Tickets
Theatre Tickets
Killers Tickets
Concert Tickets

advertising:

Live Football Tickets.com is the premier website for UK football tickets. Buy Champions League Final tickets, Community Shield tickets, FA Cup final tickets and Carling Cup tickets. This brand new website also offers England football tickets, World Cup 2010 tickets and Real Madrid tickets for La Liga.

advertising:

Looking for Football tickets?
1st4footballtickets.com has top Premiership tickets available such as Manchester United tickets, Arsenal tickets, Chelsea tickets and Liverpool tickets. But also international tickets such as Real Madrid tickets, Barcelona tickets, Champions League tickets and FA Cup tickets and much more!

advertising:

Carroll's Sports Cove, for all your Phillies merchandise

bladvertising:

Sports Tickets
Football Tickets
Cricket Tickets
Corporate Hospitality
Grand Prix Tickets
Six Nations Tickets
Jimmy Carr Tickets
Boxing Tickets
Concert Tickets
London Theatre Tickets
Killers Tickets
Depeche Mode Tickets
Rugby Union Tickets

bladvertising:

In search of the best football betting website? Sportsbetting3.com has it all, including great reviews and coverage of the annual NFL betting season. If casino games are more your thing, be sure to have a look at the top online casinos at Jaxcasinos.com

Text Links:

Credit Counseling - Credit Card Consolidation - Debt Consolidation - United Specialties

Baseball Games:

Ever wondered what baseball and slots had in common?

advertising: