Phillies Nation

105 Responses to “Breaking News: Mets Fire Randolph”

1. Jeffrey Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 8:38 am

   Happy as I am to see the Mets in turmoil, Randolph is too classy a guy to be cast on to the garbage heap in the middle of the night.

2. Dan C. Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 8:44 am

   has Billy Wagner made a stupid comment about the firing yet?

3. Phil Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 8:59 am

   I can’t believe that Randolph is taking the fall on this one. I actually think he was a good coach. He’s coaching the wrong team. Who would want to coach a bunch of overpaid primadonnas?

4. Geoff Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:06 am

   What a cowardly, gutless move by mets management. fly him out to the west coast, then wait until after the game to fire him. thats typical new york behavior.

   randolph got stuck with that clubhouse, which is filled with THE most overpaid, lazy players in baseball. oliver perez was the pirates ace but has since regressed upon his arrival to the mets. delgado, beltran, alou (why on earth does he still play), castillo, the catchers. all lazy overpaid bums who have regressed in ability since coming to new york. santana, wagner, maine, and some others are fine but they are quiet and outnumbered by the rest of them.

   randolph isnt a mean guy so asking him to manage that is like throwing him to the wolves. omar minaya should have been the fall guy. the mets need to blow itup and rebuild younger.

5. Greg V. Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:14 am

   I think Randolph deserves better. The Mets are an older team and are playing like a .500 team and not a championship calibur team. Randolph was not really the problem. Given younger guys to work with would have been more appropriate. The team just needs to rebuild.

   But whatever. The Mets are suffering and to me, that is always a good thing.

6. Tim Malcolm Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:19 am

   Good point, Geoff. They flew him out with the team, then didn’t even wait until the end of the series to can him. They knew all along they were firing him; Minaya and Co. were given the green light to fire him and went out too. Incredibly gutless.

7. Billy Wagner Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:21 am

   I am the greatest baseball player of all time. Willie just held me back from my own greatness. I am the greatest baseball player of all time. Willie is a bad person, he pushes old ladies and sells decapitated birds to blind children. I am the greatest baseball player of all time. Hopefully everyone will come to their senses and make me the manager, starting pitcher, and closer. Oh did I mention that I am the greatest baseball player of all time

8. Jose Reyes Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:31 am

   No Billy, I’m the greatest ball player of all-time!!! Willie sucked as a manager. Are you kidding me? That prick benched my ass for not hustling. He should have been fired for that bullshit. Now that Willie is gone we are “The Team To Beat.”

9. NYC PIMP DaDDy Says:
   June 17th, 2008 at 9:32 am

   You Phillies fans are fags. with your sissy comments above

10. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    NYC PIMP DaDDy…First of all what a dumb way to type out daddy. Are you 12? Second of all, do you guys think you’re going to win a world series now that Willie is gone? He was the only one in that organization that had any heart. The players certainly don’t. They just care about getting paid. And seriously who says sissy? You must be 12. You can say pussy, it’s okay. We can take it.

11. Jose Reyes Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    NYC PIMP DaDDY is actually my friend Carlos Delgado. I know dis because dat’s his nickname on his myspace page.

12. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Agreed that Minaya is the loser that put this group of OLD….beat up…overpaid….lazy……has beens together. He’s the one that should fired. I mean….if you look at this team without Santana no one would have picked them to win the NL East and Santana can’t turn a whole team’s mindset around.

    Although, I think firing Randolph will help the Mutts in the long run and they will at least make a run for the NL East.

13. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    well..look what bottom-feeding cochroach crawled out of the woodwork. typical new york, low-class behavior.

14. Omar Minaya Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    This was all a big misunderstanding. I wanted to fire Willie weeks ago. Someone has to take the blame and since I have such a wonderful track record (I traded Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee AND Grady Sizemore for a rental of Bartolo Colon) then someone else had to be blamed. It’s not my fault. YouknowhatIsaying? YouknowhatImean? I had to hire a Latin manager in order to make my plan complete. The reason we’re not winning is cuz our owner doesn’t know how to relate to the Latin players. YouknowwhatIsaying? YouknowhatImean?

15. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Omar…….just keep working your magic. We love it down here in Philly.

16. AP Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    What a jerk move. Seems like they were gonna fire this guy anyway..why do it 3000 miles away from home?!

17. AP Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    But yeah, screw the Mets otherwise.

18. Todd Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    hey now… I’m a native NYer and I’m a phils fan. I can’t deny the low class scum we have here…. but uh, i’ve been to philly. not much better there, slick…

19. Julie Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Who am I going home with? One cheesesteak or two? These are acceptable decisions to make at 3 AM. Should we fire the manager of our multimillion $ baseball club? Not a good decision to make at 3 AM. Low class.

    Also, I reckon there can only be one Manuel in the NL east. I think Charlie and Jerry should have it out.

20. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Which SP would you prefer the Phils REALISTICALLY acquire? According to various reports, these are the SP that will or could be available based on teams standing a month from now. Pick a top 3.

    Sheets
    Wolf
    CC
    Harden
    Blanton
    Bedard
    Grienke
    Pedro
    Maddux
    Burnett
    Lowe
    Cook

21. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    Add Harang and Arroyo to that list.

22. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Of those, I will be realistic and say that we don’t have the prosepcts for Bedard or C.C. The Royals made it know that Greinke is available but only if they’re “floored” with an offer. Wolf had made it known he wants nothing to do with Philly. Burnett and Pedro are free agents at the end of the year but their teams should be in pennant races. So that leaves two injury risks, Sheets and Harden, and Blanton, Lowe and Cook. Cook is pitching way over his head and I believe he signed a multiyear deal before this season. The A’s are still in the wild card hunt and are asking alot for Blanton. So that leaves the guy I would choose. Derek Lowe. he’s a sinkerballer so maybe it’ll work.

23. Brooks Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    This will be fun to see who does the spanking come early July.
    If I did not have tickets on the 11th already, I would be a little nerved as to why this entire weekend series does not include a fireworks display? Why the wait until the following Wednesday (vs Cards) and also Friday (D’backs) for the big show?

24. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Harang. I forgot about him. I pick Harang, good call Gavin.

25. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Griff….great points. Plus looking at all of those guys that are available……which ones DONT have a history with injuries? Most of them do, CC and Bedard are consistently healthy.

    I would go with my top 3 wishes….probably unrealistic.
    1) CC
    2) Sheets
    3) Harden

    The top3 possibles I think are:
    1) Bedard - I know it will take Cardenas, Golson, and at least one of our best young arms…..but I just have a feeling that it will happen. Just a hunch.

    2) Grienke - I think this could be a steal. I dont think the Royals will kill us by taking too many of our young studs.

    3) Wolf - I think Wolf would be willing to come back to Philly if they are out of it and we’re heading to play in Oct.

26. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Yea, now that I think about it….Harang makes alot more sense than Wolf. I think Wolf pissed Gillick and Co. off last offseason and they probably wont even ask about him. The Phils seem to make alot of deadline deals with the Reds.

27. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    After hearing his manager say that bedard is programmed to throw 100 pitches and is useless after that, im a little scurred off.

    the easiest option does seem to be derek lowe. hes old, but as a sinkerballer at CBP ill bet hed resign with us knowing that CBP will add a few more years to his career. I wonder if we have what it takes for harang..i doubt it, i think cinci wants top haul for him which we dont have. I wonder who costs more, harden or blanton? harden hasnt been healthy so i would serouisly give up a C grade prospect for him. burnett i like, but he has a checkedred injury history too. plus if toronto is afraid hell walk with an 11mm salary the phillies wont touch that. hed be a rental.

    wish list:

    1 - CC (not happening)
    2 - sheets or harden (whichever guy is healthy in two weeks) - could happen but dont want to give up too much for a guy with injury history especially if they arent going to resign
    3 - derek lowe (WINNER) - i think this is our man here, we can resign him easily i think.

    bonus - man it would be nice to get aaron harang though.

28. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:32 am

    arroyo would be a disaster at CBP. era of over 6 would be my guess.

29. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Harang would be AMAZING to pick up.

30. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Walt Jocketty, the former Cardinals GM is now with the Reds and I’m trying to think of any deals with the Cardinals that we’ve made in recent years. The Ron Gant/Jeff Brantley for Ricky Bottalico trade was in ‘97 or ‘98 and obviously the Scott Rolen deal.

    I wonder what the Reds would ask for Harang? Does a package of Cardenas/Golson and something else get it done or would they insist on Carrasco or Savery as a starting point?

31. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    The Phils would have to give up at least Cardenas, Golson, and a pitching prospect.

    Harang is only 30, but he has pitched over 210 innings the last 3 years. We know how that can wear down a pitcher. (See Freddy G) He’s a K machine and would do well at CBP. Hell it aint any worse than GAB in Cincy.

32. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Harang’s career stats.

33. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:43 am

    My bad.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=421685&statType=2

34. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Actually showing you can consistently go 200 innings a season usually means you’re in good enough shape as a pitcher to continue doing it.

35. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    He’s a huge dude too. 6′7 275.

36. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    yeah, people forget that Billy Beane gave up on him. He’s a beast, he would be GREAT for the Phils. Does anyone know his contractual status?

37. Mike T. Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    I just want to use this time to say that Ryan Church is an asshole. He was a jerk when he played for the Harrisburg Senators, and he’s an even bigger jerk now.

38. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    He’s signed thru 2010.

    Contract:
    signed 4-year deal worth $36.5M thru 2010 season on 2/6/07- + he receives salaries of $4.25M on 2007, $6.75M in 2008, $11M in 2009 and $12.5M in 2010- + the deal includes a team option for 2011 worth $12.75M or a $2M buyout- + the value of the option rises to $13M with 210IP in 2010- + the option becomes a mutual option if he is traded the value of the option also rises to $14M against a $2.5M buyout- + 2006 salary: $2.35, 2005: $440K
    Agent: Sam and Seth Levinson

39. Jose Reyes Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Mike T…….why? What did he ever do to you? Just cuz he cant play when he has a headache dont mean he a jerk.

40. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    I dont think cinci will give him up unless theyre blown away. theyll give up arroyo for some prospects as well as griffey and dunn. theyre building for the future. harang is still not 30 so i think theyll want to be overwhelmed. golson, cardenas, carrasco plus at least one more prospect. hes a 4 or 5 prospect talent. youre talking about a strikeout machine who can be the stabilizing force for your rotation for years is he stays healthy.

    is it worth it? you will have to give up the farm for him. theyre going to need golson to come up in a year or two. carrasco is going to be relied upon next year and theyll need him. lou marson is your catcher of the future. joe savery is cy young talent that is behind in his development because of injuries in the past.

    those guys should be untouchable. harang or not. thats the future core of your team. cant do it. or you could trade shane victorino within the national league and hope it doesnt bite you in the ass for 10 years…

    they can afford to give up perhaps bastardo, cardenas, swindle, happ, and some others. theyre in a toufh position. they need another solid starter but they really dont have enough expendable prospect talent to get CC or someone that good.

    the indians and every other team knows the phillies arent going to trade golson, savery, carrasco, marson. thats why they probably wont answer the phone when gillick calls unless he informs them hes broken on that stance.

41. Mike T. Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    So what would we give up for Lowe then?

42. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Any players on the 25 man that you’d give up in the deal? Ruiz? Obviously we could live w/o SoTag, but you’re right ………….they would have to give up alot. Harang could be a stud for another 6/7 years or so though. I’d trade Cardenas/Golson/Happ/Outman for him. Thats as far as I’d go.

43. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    For Lowe? I’d only give up one guy that looks like a solid big leaguer. They dont need any OF. They need a replacement for Kent soon. Cardenas would have to be in the deal. After him….if they wanted a stud, I’d tell them to goto hell. No pitchers in the deal unless its someone we dont even know about down in Clearwater or the Iron Pigs.

44. Gavin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    I dont know how much of an upgrade Lowe would be for us?

45. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    I’d give up some of the key farm guys to get Harang. That guy with Hamels would be an incredible 1-2 punch leading the staff. Make sure you keep Carrasco. They might want Werth because Dunn and Griffey are gone. Jay Bruce is their CF. They won’t ask for Victorino. They’re a power bats kind of team in that ballpark. Werth is a power bat. They don’t need Cardenas honestly. Brandon Phillips is a great player.

46. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    I agree that Harang would be worth if I we could get him at the right price. I’d hate to give up those two stud pitchers (Carrasco and Savery).

    As far as Ryan Church goes I hate him b/c when he was with the Nats in 2006 they took 2 of 3 from the Phils late in the year in Washington. He said that the Phillies fans were the worst and that all he wanted was to knock the Phillies out of the playoffs. Also, he’s an anti-semetic piece of trash.
    Also, he’s a Met. So I hate him.

47. Rob Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    If i am not mistaken Harden is also under team control for another 2-3 years. If the phils actually have a Doctor look at his arm and give a thumbs up, I would make the trade. Harden might be the best pitcher in the league when healthy. I know that is a HUGE when, but still he is only 27 i think. I would part with any of our prospects but Cardenas, solely because when Howard walks we can move Utley to 1st and bring up Cardenas for 2nd. I am thinking Golson, Carrasco and Kendrick. But considering this is billy beane that may be to low. Also has anyone been paying attention to Marson in AA, he is laying down the law down there.

48. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    The reds could move cardenas to shortstop because im sure by the time hes ready hell be better than jerry hairston jr.

    golson could be used in their OF to add youth and speed alongside jay bruce.

    a big problem is a lot of these asshole GM’s overvalued their own trade candidates. memo to billy beane: NOONE will give you three A prospects for joe blanton or even rich harden. thats insane. ill bet beane still gets a good haul though just nothing that extreme.

    carrasco will be in our rotation next year. out man is nice but they moved him to the bullpen stating hes clearly not good enough to be a starter. bullpen guys are automatically more expendable than starters obviously. ja happ isnt going to be a great major leaguer either.

    happ.outman.golson.cardenas is a nice package. i dont think theyre gionng to touch golson though, i really dont. theyll have to put two lesser guys in there to replace him.

    they already are thin in their OF depth beyond the top 4 guys.

    i agree that LA needs an infielder more than cincinatti. kent is old and furcal is like 31 so hes not exactly young.

49. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Marson reminds me of a Joe Mauer type. Kendrick is definitely acceptable in a trade if we’re getting an ace in return.

50. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Maybe we can get Lowe and Harang. haha

51. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    giving up kendrick defeats the purpose of trading for a starting pitcher. youre trading for a starting pitcher to replace brett myers, not kyle kendrick. brett myers is total slop as a starter because of his inconsistency and his lack of mental toughness. youre replacing myers. replacing kendrick leave a hole in your rotation because myers still sucks.

    your three-man shortened playoff rotation will be hamels-acquisition-moyer or kendrick or eatonyou cant win the WS without another player to slot in there BETTER than everything else but hamels in terms of starters.

52. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    theres no need to get rid of kendrick.

    if you want a better pitcher in return to replace myers then you give up better prospects.

53. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I think Myers will be traded this season as well for someone desperate for a closer.

54. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    if you trade Myers now, you’re not going to get anything for him. The key is trading high and buying low, not trading low and getting no value for someone who has talent.

55. chris m Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    i hope gillick doesnt read this stuff bc ive seen some ouutragous trade proposals

56. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Griffin a desperate Yankees might unload something decent for Myers. I can’t believe you’re actually backing up that trash heap Myers.

57. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    I think Brett Myers has to rebiuld his value in the Bullpen. You use prospects to trade for someone to replace him in the rotation.

    i agree that lou marson could be an all star catcher if he fulfills his potential. trading him is stupid when its obvious that he will replace ruiz next year.

58. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Trust me, the Yankees are not clamoring for Myers right now. No yankee fan has called in WFAN and said “we need a guy who is totally lost right now, how about Myers?” They want Sabathia.
    Myers is totally lost right now, but what can you do? You can give him away for nothing or hope that he turns it around.

59. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    I don’t want him turning it around in our starting rotation, if you do Griffin then that’s not very intelligent of you.

60. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    i never said keep him in the rotatin. I’m saying you’re not going to get ANYTHING for him in a trade right now.

61. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    You said give him away for nothing or home he turns it around. I’d rather give him away for nothing, and if you’ve read other posts I’ve made, on New York’s version of WIP, they’ve been talking about getting Myers as a set up man.

62. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    ok, so let’s say the yankees would want myers. the yankees would trade you latroy hawkins for myers. Would you rather have hawkins in the bullpen or hope myers turns it around in teh bullpen?

63. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I think the Yankees are desperate enough right now to overpay for Myers.

64. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    My point is that if they’re going to overpay, why do it on Myers. Why wouldn’t they do it for a pitcher who is pitching well right now, since they are a win now team?

65. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    I think they’re looking at Myers as a setup man/back up closer if something happens to Mo. They’re in a bad places right now, let’s see what happens.

66. Griffin Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    True, I will agree with you that they’re in a bad place now. I think they’re going to make a deal for Sabathia, which makes their refusal to trade for Johan last winter look bad. In any case, I wish them nothing but bad luck.

67. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I can’t wait to see a New Yorkless post season.

68. Bruce Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Just to add coal to the fire on all of this trade scenarios here:

    ESPN’s Peter Gammons names ten starting pitchers who could be available in the coming months. Gammons’ trade possibilities: Paul Byrd, Jeremy Sowers, Derek Lowe, Rich Harden, Odalis Perez, Brett Tomko, Jarrod Washburn, Zach Duke, Vicente Padilla, and Kevin Millwood. Byrd, Lowe, Perez, and Tomko will be free agents after the season. Gammons also five “unlikely, but not impossible” scenarios. He suggests A.J. Burnett, Bartolo Colon, Joe Blanton, Greg Maddux, and Ben Sheets could be moved under the right circumstances.

    In another article, unofficial sources indicates the Yankees having expressed reluctance to trade Hughes or other top prospects may be willing to look at Lowe and/or Byrd.

    With Phillies’ owners “hovering over Gillick’s shoulders” the GM may also lower his sights and take an interest in either Lowe or Byrd. The 37 yr old Paul “Frasier” Byrd (15-8 last season) is an inning eater with playoff experience (winning starts in 2007 vs Yankees in ALDS and Red Sox in ALCS). Byrd, is best remembered by Phillies fans as an All-Star in 1999 while with the team and the devoted fan based Byrd’s Nest that occupied Veteran’s stadium. (chuckle)

69. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    I don’t want an HGH user on the team.

70. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    The yankees need a starting pitcher right now. their ace is lost for the season basically. theyre not going to want brett myers who has totally reverted into garbage.

    myers best hope is to stay in the bullpen and rebuild his valu efor the deadline (if theres time) or for next year if the phillies dont need him as a closer. theyll have to trade for his replacement in the rotation

71. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    You have a better version of byrd already in jamie moyer.

    i still like derek lowe if they cant get the top of the line guys.

72. Joshua Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    why is ryan church an asshole? back up that comment with facts.

73. Bruce Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Geoff ~ I would like your post game description of Myer’s performance tonight since you will be there as “eye witness” (chuckle). Hopefully, Myers may change your opinion about him.

74. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Myers isn’t pitching tonight, Moyer is.

75. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    ok there dave spadaro

76. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    myers pitches on saturday when ill also be there

77. Bruce Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Sorry… my bad. Myers is on my mind alot lately (trying to figure him out).

78. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    ..shudders..

79. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    i looked at myers’ game log. theres no two ways about it. it isnt pretty. i count 5 quality starts the whole season. some of them were REALLY bad.= BULLPEN

80. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Myers took over Eaton’s role as Philly’s most wanted. I’m starting to like Eaton more and more. Yesterday when I saw him in the dugout chatting it up with Hamels, Kendrick, and Moyer, and you could tell they were talking about pitching type stuff, and they all had big smiles on their face, it really made me like Eaton more.

81. Pete Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    How about something like this with the Reds:

    Trade Howard, Cardenas, and Outman for Harang and Dunn. Then you move Burrell to 1B and let Dunn play left. Take Myers out fo the rotation and you get: Hamels, Harang, Moyer, Kendrick, Eaton. Not too bad, considering that Eaton, much as everyone continues to hate on him, leads the team in quality starts.

82. Craig Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Trade Kendrick???

    He’s 16-6 since he was called up to the majors!!!!!!!!

83. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    i dont like that trade because i think dunn totally sucks. good pitchers make him look terrible. youre talking about a guy thats a strikeout king thats worse than howard. HELL NO.

84. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    exactly…kendrick wins, they play well behind him when hes out there

85. scot Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    I’d love Harang, but I don’t see the Reds trading Harang. With the young stable of pitchers coming through there, they want a solid veteran to be there to show them the ropes. That’s why Harang stays. I really expect Arroyo to be on the block before Harang.

86. Pete Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Geoff -

    Dunn may strike out a lot (less than Howard, fwiw), but he has a career OPS+ of 130 and gets on base (despite the strikeouts) at a .400 clip. Plus, he isn’t the focal point of the trade - Harang is. Trading for Dunn along with Harang will get us approximately the same production that we can expect from Howard, at least for this year. Long-term, Dunn may not be the solution, but I like our chances for the World Series this year better with Harang in there than Myers.

    Plus, if the front office will ultimately let Howard walk when his arb years are up (too cheap to sign Howard & Hamels long-term), why not use him to get a big pitching chip now, when the Phils are positioned to make a good run at things?

87. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    I’d rather have Howard than Dunn. Regardless, Howard is not going to be in trade talks anymore this season. He’ll be a run producing machine the rest of the season.

88. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Sure I guess Dunn would probably do well in CBP. But I think youre giving up too much. cincinatti is NOT going to pay ryan howard either. they dont want to deal with that. you trade howard to someone that wants to sign him to an extension. like the angels….

    still, if theyll give up harang you go for it at a reasonable price but you save howard for an offseason bidding war and IF they meet YOUR price for howard then and only then do you give him up.

    you have to take the billy beane approach. demand a LOT and wait it out until someone gets desperate enough to do it.

89. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    I agree. no need to trade howard this year. he seems back to form.

90. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    hell strike out a lot his whole career. but hell produce a lot of runs his whole career. if you have 60 rbis at this point of the season with 19 hr, even if you have a low average you still dont suck

91. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    howards WAY better than dunn. dunn is overrated garbage who makes too much money already

92. chris m Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    dunn sucks!!!!!!!howard at leeast could hit with risp

93. chris m Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    geoff if hes back to form issnt that when you want to trade him bc his value will be better..im not for trading him during the year but this offseason sounds good to me

94. Geoff Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    thats what i was trying to say

95. JD Drew's My Bitch Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    If the Phillies trade for Paul Byrd……I’ll become a fucking Mets fan. No, never mind…..I’ll just kill myself.

    Golson/Harman/Outman/Happ for Harang. Pull the fucking trigger Pat.

96. chris m Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    i dont think pats worried about making any deals…he already made possibly the worst trade in recent years for the phillies when he traded for garcia… he just wants to keep his rep high and hes thinking more or less where hes going to go on vacation in the winter

97. JD Drew's My Bitch Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Do the ’stros have any SP that we could get? Eddy Wade is always good to get a steal from.

98. Pete Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    I can see waiting for an offseason bidding war as preferable to doing any kind of in-season deal with Howard, but to me it all depends on what the other options are to get someone like Harang or Bedard.

    The Phils need another starter if they’re going anywhere in the playoffs. And they don’t need Wolf, Arroyo or Byrd, they need a legit #2. I’d rather see them move Howard to do it than gut their farm system (due to the reality that they aren’t going to pay Howard $16-20mm a year and he’s not going to be here once the arb years are done). To me, they need to be focused on winning this year without totally blowing up their already thin farm system. If the asking price for someone like Harang includes our 4 top prospects, we need to look at other ways to get a deal done.

99. Phil Says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Not for nothing, but who was to know that Garcia was going to get a dead arm? He was good back then. You have to be careful with pitchers.

100. Pete Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

     True, but Garcia lost 3-4mph on his fastball the year before we traded for him, and we (stupidly) chalked it up to fatigue without getting him checked out. The fact that the Phils went into that trade with blinders on doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be looking for a starter now.

101. Phil Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

     Oh, I agree Pete, but our physician should check him out before we do anything. It’s ashame Garcia died out because before that he was a really good pitcher.

102. Pete Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

     Absolutely true…Garcia when healthy would have been a great addition. He’s been rehabbing on his own hoping to spark some deadline interest - would be interesting if he can get his velocity back. Our docs definitely need to take a look at anyone we’re thinking about trading for, especially any of the oft-injured guys whose names keep popping up in these threads.

     The last thing we can afford to do is to trade solid value for damaged goods. Enough worrying about that for now - off to the game - GO PHILS!!!

103. chris m Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

     gilick didnt make him get a indeph physical which should happen when your giving away your two top prospects… and when the guys decling in recent years…

104. chris m Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

     i dont mind harang but sheets im nervous about… hes damaged goods to me…hes to risky to give up your farm for… the best trade is sometimes the one never made.

105. Phil Says:
     June 17th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

     I wonder if Garcia can get it back together in time for the deadline. Maybe we can get him for a minor league deal and basically get the year out of him that we deserve for his crappy success in Philly. I mean a lot of pitchers go through injuries, get surgery, and can rebound from it.

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