Phillies Nation

62 Responses to “Moyer Schools Fish With Clutch Start”

1. Bruce Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 12:51 am

   The ageless wonder has been doing it for so many years with guile and savvy. I absolutely enjoy watching 45 yr old Moyer baffled those aggressive fastball hitters with off speed pitches. He is very special and all baseball fans..not just fans of the phillies, should appreciate his craft in an era of glamorized 95 MPH throwers.

   Moyer is like fine wine that gets better with age. For the Phillies, it’s like having an “ace” in hand when ever Moyer pitch against Florida. And as Tim mentioned, he now has an astounding career record of 9 wins in 9 starts (9-0) against them.

   Moyer said after the game that he doesn’t subscribe to the theory of being so effective against the Marlins because they are “young” or “impatiently agressive”.

   “I’m not buying that one anymore,” Moyer said. “These guys have been around two, three, four years. They’ve got a far better idea than they’ve had in the past and they’re a better ballclub.”

   Which makes Moyer’s performance tonight all the more special.

   I love it!

2. Phil Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 1:01 am

   You left the Nats out…are they like 20 games back?

3. peasant Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 1:56 am

   All the people I talked Phil’s with in the off season said “I’m worried about moyer”. I steadfastly defended him, and also had a thing to say about Myers. This isn’t news, Moyer’s Hall of Fame caliber. He plays the game for the best reasons and is a true athlete and sportsmen.

4. Phanatic74 Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 3:03 am

   Jamie Moyer needs to goto the All Star game! Check his stats, he is tied with pitchers like Johan Santana for wins. Let’s not forget Pat Burrell as well. Even though Pat has cooled off he is why we are sitting so well in the N.L. East . . . . . . .

5. Mark Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 4:36 am

   Great win for Moyer and the Phils. But offense needs a wake up call. Not enough runs on the board!

6. Lewisauce Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 7:20 am

   I’m firmly with the Moyer supporters, and have been from day 1. I’ll defend the guy at any turn. I love watching him play because it’s like a short story with every pitch. They come so slow to the plate that there’s enough time to feel the tension build — beginning, middle, denouement. And more often than not, the tension breaks in his favor. I love the guy.

   Tim, you might not want to mention Howard, but I will. He flat-out sucks. He’s fucking terrible. Awful. Whatever. Pick your expletive and your adjective. This was a big series and the guy went something like 0 for 12. This is unacceptable from your cleanup hitter who is getting paid $10 million and who believes he is worth $20 million+.

   Yeah, the Howard apologists are going to say: “You can’t factor in the money he’s making” or “It’s still early, he’ll get hot.” Bullshit. He’s a grossly overpaid clueless whiner who can’t lay off the low-and-away slider. A guy like that belongs on the Mets with the rest of the overpaid, heartless, gutless primadonnas. And it’s mid-June. That “still early” argument holds no truck. I want him designated to the six or seven hole AT LEAST, if not shipped off in exchange for pitching. (I know, realistically, no one wants him now, so we’re not going to get much for him at this point, but still …) Teams are regularly walking Utley to get to Howard. He should be dropped in the order. And he should stay there until he figures it out.

   Someone mentioned that if we trade Howard, it will upset team chemistry. Well, team chemistry looks pretty damn upset to me whenever he strikes out or grounds into a DP in a crucial situation. It would be one thing if he looked patient at the plate, but every time I watch, he’s hacking away at the first pitch. Unacceptable.

   Howard called himself a “special” player when he talked about getting A-Rod money. That’s fine. He can ride the short bus to the No. 7 slot in the lineup and stay there until he gets a clue.

7. clicheguevara Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 7:37 am

   Moyer is probably my favorite pitcher to watch in baseball. It’s reassuring knowing that at the end of the season, when we have what may be 2 division deciding series with the Marlins in the final 3 weeks, Moyer will most likely be facing, or “acing”, them twice.

   I’m not too worried about the lack of runs scored, especially since we won the game. We will need those for the Cards and Sox series.

   I would not be upset to see Howard go for pitching at all as long as we are going to be able to keep Burrell. Especially with Utley’s newfound power. We don’t need what little he has been contributing so far this season. He feasts on weak pitching like the rest of the team but will be the first to collapse entirely in a close game. I’ve been thinking its long past due for him to move down to the 7 spot, but a Feliz-Howard-Ruiz-Pitcher bottom of the rotation could get REALLY ugly. Mostly for my TV screen.

   On the flip side, if we stick with Howard through all of this, and whats happening right now is really some kind of black hole anomaly, it could pay dividends for us negotiating his contract later. He got his money for this season and he has to know that he isn’t earning it, so maybe he would be willing to ease up a lot so that we could sign him at a real-world price. This could just be a pipedream though. And in reality, is there going to be anyone available to add power to this lineup in his place?

   Like many, I keep wishing Jayson Werth is something that he is not.

8. Phil Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 7:43 am

   I actually think that Jason Werth is the real deal. That bunt was a mistake, but other than that I think he’s a good player. I really would like to see him learn to hit righties better and get his average up to .280. He could be a good 5 hole hitter if we lose Burrell or if Burrell has to bat in the 4 hole.

9. scot Says:
   June 13th, 2008 at 7:58 am

   I can honestly say that was about my favorite game to watch this year. I would absolutely love to see Moyer at the All Star game in a Phils cap.

   I’ll come out and also say, I’m thankful we didn’t bench Werth for Taguchi last night.

10. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:01 am

    I doubt Jamie Moyer would make the all-star team, but it would be awesome if he did. He’s only 1 of the 2 guys on this team that I trust taking the mound, the other being Hamels. I’m starting to trust Eaton too. It’s going to be really sad when he retires. Do you think the Phils will sign him for 1 more year so he can get to 250 wins?

11. scot Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:22 am

    Holy cow.

    I just read in the Phillies notebook that last night the team played a prank on Werth, having him slotted to play catcher last night on the first lineup card in the dugout. He wound up believing it and even going to Moyer to talk about hitters. They had him completely fooled. Just another reason I love this team. While several people on here believed the sky was falling and wanted to bench Werth, instead, he’s on the recieving end of a prank like that. Absolutely fantastic!!! Once again, Charlie proves to be smarter than the average fan!

12. Joe DiMaggio Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:43 am

    I am so happy that the people on this site that dissed Moyer in the beginning of the season are eating crow. He is a classy gutsy pitcher that got us to the playoffs last year and is going to do so again this year.

    I say to trade Myers and Howard to a team that needs a closer and power hitter in return for an ace starter plus a 3rd base prospect. Then move Burrell to first base and get Werth and Jenkins into the lineup regularly along with more playing time for Dobbs.

13. Lewisauce Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Werth is the real deal. He may be the real deal as a platoon player the rest of his career, but that’s OK (at least for a few years until his contract rises to the level of an everyday player; then you have decisions to make). I too wish he would get better at hitting righties, and I’m of the opinion that he will with more exposure and PT.

    I’ve been thinking about the impending off-season Howard contract issue as well. I don’t think there’s any way in hell he’ll ease off. He is a whining primadonna who will try to weasel all the money he can out of the team. The only positive from his poor-ass performance is that the team can use it as a bargaining chip when it goes to arbitration (which it will, because he won’t ask for anything less than like $15 million). So maybe the team can convince an arbiter that Howard is only legitimately worth $7 million (actually less, but that’s what they offered him last year).

14. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Getting rid of howard now may be selling low, but if the angels give me jered weaver or ervin santana id do it. they wont trade myers because of his percieved natural talent. i think theyll resign lidge, but i dont trust them to do that yet. so if you view myers as a 3rd or 4th starter hes not as bad as if you think of him as a number two guy, i guess i can deal with that for a season. they will need to address that with other moves or signings in the offseson or at the trade dealine.

    i dont want to deal with the howard contract, just move it an dlet someone else deal with it. hes been “figured out” as baseball peopl elike to put it. they have a book on him and he has not been capable of making the adjustment. great hitters, even good hitters, can adjust. he hasnt. its NOT early, its mid-june. theres no more excuse for this BS performance from howard day after day.

15. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    ive warmed up to moyer. he has bad games against patient teams usually, but honestly i cant get on him for his season. its been good. jamie moyer is the least of our concerns in the starting rotation. i still dont trust eaton despite his performances. and myers has been garbage this year except for like two starts.

    but a 45 year old man out there going 6 no hit innings and 8 shutout innings against a young power hitting team that leads mlb in home runs in the florida heat?? AWESOME! you have to love it when he breaks out the old man strength.

16. NEPA Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    There’s definitely nothing better to watch than Moyer baffle hitters. He’s putting together a great season and with the Mets and the Braves just plummeting, it’s a good feeling having a pitcher like Moyer who has absolutely dominated the Fish over his career.

17. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    i am amazed sometimes how he gets people out. with his stuff he shouldnt be able to get anyone out but he does.

18. Don M Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Good Prank on Werth… whatever works.. had I thought of that, I would not have called for him to be benched… but that was Charlie’s way of letting him know everyone thinks it was a dumb decision.. and that they are now past it.. and so are us fans!!

    Great piece of hitting by him last night to take that slider right back up the middle for an RBI.

    Moyer looks good this year.. if he can get to 10 wins before the All-Star break, he’ll be in the game… that 4.12 ERA looks pretty nice too!

19. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    i didnt know werth used to be a catcher

20. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    I’d love to see Moyer drop down under a 4.00 ERA by all-star break. That would be looking very nice for the year. I love how all of our pitchers ERAs are dropping down(aside from Myers.) It’s a great feeling. The way Moyer is pitching I’m starting to think that he’s a solid #3 pitcher and Eaton and Kendrick are solid #4 and #5 guys. That just leaves room for a #2. We need one of those.

21. Lewisauce Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Speaking of Eaton, anyone else notice that Saturday’s game is scheduled as Eaton vs. Lohse?

    No matter the outcome, there’s some irony there.

22. Mike T. Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    This series vs. the Cardinals just reminds me of how we could have signed Lohse in the off season. He’s having a pretty solid year – he’d be a perfect fit right now. Whatever.

    As far as tonight – I like the Kid to take this one. It’s time for the offense to feast on an overrated Wellemeyer. Wellemeyer is straight junk. He had one good game against the Cubs this year, faced the Pirates 3 times, and the Giants twice. He hasn’t faced an offense like the Phils. The guy usually doesn’t go more than six innings, and he’s a righty. I like this match up tonight, I really do. If we can’t get to Wellemeyer, we’ll definitely get to their bullpen.

23. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am

    The NL Central is a garbage division. The Phillies took care of the cubs when they came here. the pirates do well against the phillies but their ownership doesnt want to win. the cardinals appear overrated. and weve seen the astros already.

    the rotation numbers for st louis look good on the surface. it makes it really obvious that we should have signed kyle lohse. that was really really arrogant and stupid to do that they did.

    however, wellemeyer is defintiely overrated. so are the cardinals

24. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    You forgot to mention we took 2 from the Brewers.

25. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    I forgot about the brewers because theyre like 7 games out in that division…garbage

26. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    does moyer want to pitch next year? will the phils be intersested? or does he want to head back to seattle?

27. Fran Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    what are the chances we trade for lohse at the deadline?

28. Mike T. Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    4%

29. Gepff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    Trading for Loshe means admitting a mistake. trading for millwood or padilla is similar to that, though not as pronounced. they will not do that. id be shocked.

30. Gepff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    i think moyer retires after the season, especially if they win the world series

31. doubleh Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    I doubt we’d trade for Lohse anyway, because the Cards won’t be out of the Central or WC race most likely…

32. Tim Malcolm Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    We’re not trading for Lohse. The Cards will be in the thick all season. End of.

33. Mike T. Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Seems like Sabathia will be going to the Yanks, Sox or Cubs. There goes the boat on that deal.

34. Gepff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    yeah. i doubt they wouldve resigned him though, knowing them. they wouldve given up the farm and then let him walk.

    im calling for ben sheets.

    if howard is moving this year, which is unlikely, im calling for jered weaver or ervin santana as one of the guys coming back.

35. Mike T. Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Geoff, what do you think we could give up for Sheets? I can’t see a deal going down without a MLB-ready player included in the package.

36. chrism Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    why is every1 hot over sheets….he CAN’T stay healthy…we don’t need that for what wed have to give up

37. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Sheets is younger than lowe, but if now sheets then you get lowe. if not lowe, then someone else. you dont give up you keep trying for it.

    anwyay. sheets? every team will ask for cardenas as part of anything id think. everyone will ask for carrasco, but i REALLY would rather not give up carrasco. he has developed a nice curveball.

    id shell out cardenas, happ, bastardo and one other lesser prospect. thatd be a decent starting point. its imperative to resign whoever you get though.

38. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    everyone is so hot for ben sheets because hes better than every starting pitcher on the phillies roster except hamels

39. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    i understand that but the last three seasons hes started 22, 17 and 24 games. for what youd have to give up for this injury prone guy you could make runs at bedard, CC and others for less that will play. last thing we need now is to waste the farm on someone who cant pitch more then 24 games on his best season

40. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    worried about that? what about derek lowe. hes been around a while. i really think we need a righty who throws hard with command. oh wait, no thats not brett myers

41. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    what about zach grienke? theres a lot of talk the royals will move him & gil meche. thats an interesting name because hes only 25

42. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    worried about injurys? of course this guy is bound to go down at any time. grienke youd have to give up a lot im sure but meche has a big contract that they would love to get rid of so he would take less to get but thasts 11 mil a year for a guy that decent but not great

43. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    meche isnt worth it. can he even eat innings? i didnt look at his average iinnings per start.

    at least bronson arroyo can chew up some decent innings.

    i doubt theyll give up bannister. but greinke would be ok. i still prefer to ryan howard to the angels trade thts unlikely to happen. im telling you guys, man, thats the team they need to target howard to. im going to see that team next week when theyre here in addition to the red sox earlier in the week. theyve got a lot of talent on that team that i want to get a hold of if im a GM.

44. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Has anyone actually ever taken a look at Sheets’ injuries? None of them are big deal injuries. He had a broken middle finger, tendinitis, and something else that wasn’t the end of the world. It was never an arm problem. Bedard has injury issues too. I’d take Sheets over anyone. We need an overpowering righty. Actually, the pitcher I want the most is Lincecum, but I doubt we could get him in anyway.

45. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    if i were the giants and the phillies called and offered ryan howard for lincecum straight up, id laugh at gillick and hang up the phone

    youre right, lincecum is AWESOME.

46. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Just imagine Hamlels/Lincecum 1-2 punch. I guarantee you that combined you’d get 50 winning outings from them(not saying that they’d win 25 games each) but that you’d win at least 25 times each everytime they took the mound.

47. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Yeah probably. Wed have to give up more than the farm for him i think though.

48. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    I’d give up Howard, Carrasco, and Donald, for Lincecum, and Cain.

49. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Hell yeah

50. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    but sheets keep having these llittle setbacks. im saying if were goin to give up the farm go for it all. how about howard and cardenas for fielder and sheets? that doesnt even up does it?

51. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Nope. You dont trade howard in the national league. violation of one of the cardinal rules of sports. the flyers were so lucky that eric lindros didnt win 5 stanley cups with the rangers. or any. that should have backfired severely on them and it didnt because lindros was that much of a fraud at that point of his career.

52. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    i dont understand that then why would we trade him for lincecum?

53. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    it is permissable to trade prospects in the division or the NL. because theres no way of knowing 100 percent whether theyll come back to bite you. if they do, then oh well. but you DO NOT trade established players/pitchers in the division IN ANY SPORT and you especially dont trade a “star” like howards supposed to be in the conference or division.

    has to be to the american league. howard is worth more as a DH anyway, so id demand more from an AL team.

54. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Id make the exception for linceum because hes that good in my opinion. i have no douibt that tim lincecum will win the cy young award more than once and will pitch a no hitter in his career as well as win 20 games more than once in his career. assuming he stays healthy.

55. Geoff Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    its like almost universal. if you feel safe about a move then you can do it. will prince fielder not be a total complete douchebag his whole career? i dont know, but hell probably change very little until he gets “old”.

    well. what does everyone eelse think? can we waive the non-conference rule for howard like they did for lindros?

    do we know that hell tank like that? id he does, if you think he does, then i gues its ok to waive it completely. if theres some doubt then i dunno

56. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    geoff i like most everything you write and really respect your knowledge but i think your wrong here. we traded schilling to the dbacks. the marlins traded d lee to the cubs and everyone else to the mets including piazza including the mets sending back mike jacobs. howard could go somewhere in the NL but 100% not in the division. im at the piont where we send him where we get the best in return but NOT our division. we play teams outside our division 6 to 8 times a year. im fine with seeing howard that many times. if you send him to the AL with interleague well probaly see him anyways

57. Lewisauce Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Tim Lincecum? Are you guys on crack? Yeah, I’d give up the farm for him too, but does anybody really think he’s going anywhere? The Giants need to rebuild, and you don’t do that by giving up one of the top-five rising pitchers in baseball. He’s their Hamels, and they ain’t getting rid of him for Ryan Howard, Brett Myers, Carlos Carrasco, Greg Golson or R.J. Swindle (or any combination of the above).

    I’d say Sheets is doable, and I’d love to see that happen. His injuries don’t bother me too much; as someone (Geoff?) said, none of them are throwing shoulder or elbow, so they’re really not that big a worry.

58. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    i think howards is a good fit for the giants… i dont think it will be for lincecum but they have some good prospects. that faanbase wants someone to replace bonds and someone that could rejuvinate the splash homeruns. howard would sell tickets and thats what they need. good fit

59. Phil Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Lincecum is still a prospect. He’s not proven yet.

60. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    i guess utley is too then…..is not that hes a prospect but that hes a young player.do they lose their prospect tag when they win a cy yound?

61. chris m Says:
    June 13th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    hes pitched close to 250 innings with more strikouts than inings. phil, when does he lose the prospect tag and picks up the talented young player tag?

62. Phil Says:
    June 14th, 2008 at 9:17 am

    Let him get a full season in. There’s no doubt in my mind he’s going to be a GREAT pitcher, although his release does frighten me that he’s going to get hurt eventually, especially because he’s throwing a 100 mph fastball. I’d honestly take Lincecum over Volquez because Lincecum isn’t nearly as wild. When we traded Bourn last year he was still considered a prospect too.

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