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Could Blanton Trade Mean Holliday To Phils?
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Fri, July 18, 2008 10:59 AM
Stay with me.
The Phillies, in acquiring Joe Blanton, essentially acquired Brett Myers, version 2.0. He’s a bit younger (27), much cheaper (arb-eligible through 2010) and maybe more promising (his arm hasn’t fallen off yet, and he’s not a headcase).
Brett Myers, as we all know, wants to close games. The Rockies, as we’re finding out, don’t have a real closer, and are probably going to lose Brian Fuentes via trade.
Not that it’s a genuine possibility, but could the Phils swing Myers, Jayson Werth (or Shane Victorino) and a top prospect (such as Carlos Carrasco) to the Rockies for Holliday?
Myers has two years and about $17M left on his contract. Holliday has two years and about $23M left on his. The Rox would gain a closer, a replacement outfielder for Holliday and a future starting pitcher. The Phils, obviously, would gain an elite talent capable of lifting the offense to mammoth proportions.
Again, just throwing it out there. Debate, if you’d like.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I thought Matt Holiday becomes a free agent after the 2009 season? I wouldn’t bring him in for a year and two months. Scott Boras clients ALWAYS test the market, so a Brad Lidge scenario would be out of the question.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I like this thinking. Myers is no good to the Phils as a starting pitcher right now. His mindset is that of a closer. the only value he would have here is as a set-up man for Lidge. With the acquisition of Blanton and Happ pitching well (7 hitless with 12 K’s in AAA last night) I would think he would have to stay in the rotation too. Another bat, as I have stated earlier, is the way to offset our “average” pitching staff after Cole. Outscore people. Hit Holliday 3rd after JRoll and Utley and before Howard and Burrell and you have the most explosive offense in the majors. I would rather trade Vic than Worth and would like to hold onto Carrasco if at all possible. And don’t concern yourself with two years down the road to sign Holliday. Live for TODAY and go for it. With no A list starting pitchers out there, this move would give the Phils a legit shot at the pennant.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I should’ve clarified that, yes, the two years left for Holliday includes 2008. As does with Myers. So both contracts expire after ‘09. Of course, Holliday would want a ridiculous deal after ‘09, but by then a bunch of things could happen (Burrell gone, Howard gone, etc.).
July 18th, 2008 at 11:26 am
wow now we are startin to talk big…
I’d do it in a second and would never regret it…this way you could let burrell walk @ the end of this year and just insert holliday in his spot…maybe gillicks gots one last move b4 he moves on but omg hollidayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy please
July 18th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Tim, are you saying Blanton is a version of the new Myers, or the 05/06 projected Myers?
July 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
everyones like he has one year left so what…brewers got C.C and hes not gonna resign with them they want to win now…if the phils get holliday it immedialty gives them the momentum to over shadow what the mets have been doing and would make every mets fan cringe…do it WIN NOWWWWWWWWWWWWW
July 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Mike: Not Myers of right now, but more of the 05/06 version, maybe with a small drop off.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Tim: I agree that Blanton is not the “right guy”, but if you’re saying he is equal or slightly less than an 05/06 Myers, isn’t this a decent improvement?
July 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
What are the odds of us resigning Pat the Bat? I’d say ship off Pat and Myers to the Rox for Holiday. Or see if the Rockies are that dumb and will take Adam Eaton. That’ll keep Corrasco in the farm system.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I like the idea — except for the Carrasco part. I do not want to trade that guy.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Tim…is this from yesterday speculation where jody mack on 950am said the phils were in talks with the rockies
July 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Ohh, the possibilities….. (wakes up). Yeah, never gonna happen, although I wish it would.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Yeah TJ, I don’t see this going down at all.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Tom: I considered Jody Mac’s speculation, though I didn’t mention it.
Mike: Nice work, as always. But I’ll say Blanton has the potential to be Myers 05/06, but right now is leaning toward the current Myers.
Eaton imposter (I love when people post as famous people, btw): Carrasco would likely hinge on Vic. If Vic goes, Carrasco probably doesn’t. If Werth goes, Carrasco would. That’s what I think, at least.
PSU Fan: Odds are small on re-signing Burrell. David Murphy said in a chat yesterday the Burrell money went to Lidge.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I also don’t see this happening. The Phillies were probably talking to the Rockies about Fuentes.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
1 year the phils are gonna do something big…why not this year though it is highly unlikly…they need to say goodbye to gillick and hope cashman doesnt resign with the yanks so we can get him bc then the moves comeeee
July 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Ooops. I am impersonating Adam Eaton.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
the asking price for fuentes is 2 high mide as well add more to the price and then get holliday
July 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Today is the greatest day I’ve ever known.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Im not 100% sure.. but I don’t think the Rockies GM is retarded..
So, I don’t think there is a chance in hell of getting Holliday for what you offered… They would need to give up Myers, Carrasco, Victorino, AND probably Savery or Bastardo… and that still probably wouldn’t get it done
July 18th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Say goodnight Phillies fans. Your reign of terror is now over. I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted. Its our turn to take over 1st place, and we are not gonna look back. Your starting pitching is gonna be your downfall. They just cant compete with our dominating staff. And go ahead, make your move for Holliday, did you look at his carreer stats away from Coors Field? I dont think he is your answer, and Blanton, well all I can say is LOL. I never thought the guy that was the savior to your season was the all mighty Joe Blanton. Way to go, trade your number 2 prospect for another Myers, if not worse. HAHA. If any of you think I’m being a bit rude and disrespectful, you’re absolutely right. You Phillies fans are the most ill-mannered, uncivil, vulgar, ignorant sports fans on the planet and deserve to be told how it is.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Mike T. you have the audacity of hope. I like that. Maybe you can campaign with me this fall. I’ll speak with the GM of the Rockies. As a closet Phillies fan let me say this, Joe Blanton is an upgrade over Adam Eaton, but if the Phillies want to get some serious momentum going they need to trade for Holliday.
That’s Change We Can Believe In my friend. God Bless.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Even if it costs me NY in the fall…..I’ll never pretend to be a Mets fan.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
“HAHA. If any of you think I’m being a bit rude and disrespectful, you’re absolutely right. You Phillies fans are the most ill-mannered, uncivil, vulgar, ignorant sports fans on the planet and deserve to be told how it is.”
Well those are two contradictory statements there.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Hey mutts fan, remember what happened when you got first place last time.
HELP I AM CHOCKING!! PLEASE HELP
Mets suck
July 18th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
“Lets Go Mets” puts the MORON back in oxymoron. I can tell that joke because I know he doesn’t get it.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Somehow the Mets suck and choke at the same time……..amazing if you ask me.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Gotta love those Mets! They had the best record in the NL in 2006, but were knocked out of the playoffs by a team that barely played .500. It was hard to top that one, but they followed it up by the greatest collapse in baseball history in 2007!
July 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Pedro Martinez is scheduled to start on Jul…. wait… what?? Really??
BREAKING NEWS**** PEDRO MARTINEZ will miss his next scheudled start on Sunday..
Mets fans all love the cock and just started yapping this week cause they finally started winning some games
July 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Yeah, what’s the use coming over to this site and posting a bunch of nonsense? I just visited metsblog.com for the first time a few minutes ago - what a terrible website.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I’d like to congratulate the Mets on a fantastic 10 game winning streak. You guys have a helluva a team over there. Its gonna be tough to overcome your momentum.
I also want to say that the Mets fans have alot of class and are very knowledgable about the game of baseball.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Is Blanton scheduled to start Tuesday in NY? If so, he can stick it these Mets fans himself…and I’ll be there to see it!
July 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
July 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Blanton is currently listed as #2 in the Phillies Rotation.. on their website depth-chart.. behind Cole Hamels..
So I think Tuesday at NY would probably be his first start against the Guidos.. er I mean the Mutts, er the Mets.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
If I was an A’s fan.. I would probably kill myself.. giving up harden and blanton for nothing too great in return.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Well, I’m still on the fence with this deal but he can do a lot to change my mind if he goes into Shea and get Los Mets fans to eat their words.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
CZ, it looks like he’ll be going against Santana on Tuesday.
Nice of you mets fans to come out of your Yankee shell during this 10 game win streak. But hurry to hop right back in them during August when we’re 5 games up.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Don M., I honestly like what the A’s do. I’m sure a true fan of the A’s would understand what their doing but the Giant/A’s hybrid are scratching their heads.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
“They just cant compete with our dominating staff.” - Lets Go Mets
They have a team ERA of 3.99. Wow….so very dominating.
I am not saying that the Phillies have a great staff (ERA 3.90), but I certainly wouldn’t call the Mets pitching staff dominating. They don’t even have a complete game this year.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I generally like what the A’s do too… and I read Moneyball, and I get the whole Billy Beane thing and all that.. but the reason they dump their guys is because he has a limited payroll, not because he thinks its the best way to win a World Series..
Harden is a great talent, and I guess I can see why they traded him now, when he is relatively healthy.. but look at their current roster and tell me how the hell they are going to compete against anyone. and with Prospects, you never know…
Thats why I want eveyone to chill with the Carrasco and Marson are GODS- type talk.. we have NO idea what they’ll do at the major league level.. Hamels DOMINATED the minors.. Carrasco is a middle of the road guy with +stuff, Marson really wasn’t ahead of Jaramillo until this year.. so its not like these guys are the best players ever and they are waiting in the wings..
And anyone that likes Beane, should realize how tough it is to be an actual GM.. but those people are the same ones the rip Gillick every other day and talk about Taguchi instead Dobbs.. etc..
THAT.. was my little rant..
July 18th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
we’ll definitely get Holliday, and the Coors Light twins are under my desk at the moment.
why not get Happ back up there? trade Myers for anything, I mean, even for a jar of the black stuff they rub under their eyes, a Henry Winkler doll, anything….
Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Kendrick, Happ
July 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
since you got blanton maybe you guys will take 3 out of 4 from the mets,not the other way around lol jk
July 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
that was pretty funny.. lol jk what a homo.. are all Mets fans as witty as that nerd?
July 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Mets fans are obviously scared of The Nation. Disrespectful mets fans. Get a real manager…….
July 18th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Me: Got Postseason?
Mets Fans: Booooooo.
Chase Utley: Boo? Fuck you.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Well…. it’s time for the Phillies to make that 2nd half run and play to their strengths.
A little food for thought. Why, when the Phillies are struggling, do fans say they will play better as a 2nd half team? Are they relying on some pattern of past 2-3 yrs? Are they saying the team is pacing themselves till the 2nd half? If that were so, wouldn’t such an idea be an insult to the players?
I’ll put it in another way. I don’t see why a team being good in the second half a few years in a row in any way translates to them being good in the second half this year. The schedules are different, the players (both on the team itself and the teams they will face) are different and the injury issues are (or probably will be) different. I know it makes for a good story, but is there any real reason to expect that trend to continue?
Don’t get me wrong, I love to see this “trend” of success continues for the Phillies. But obviously, as stated above, there is no certainty that it will continue for this 2nd half of the season.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Some players are at their best when the season starts.. and then fade away as they get tired through the season.. Some players are at their peak after they have made adjustements and seen enough live-game-action to improve midway through the season.
Pitchers may find decide to stop using a pitch that was giving them trouble.. or maybe they have worked on something enough to throw it more… Hitters have seen every pitch, thrown at every speed, with guys throwing from the Windup and the Stretch..
Maybe this Phillies team is loaded with guys that all just perform better as the season goes on and they get more comfortable with their roles on the team, and they aren’t trying to do too much…. whatever the case may be, this group of players does not play good baseball early in the year, but play well after the All-Star break.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
this is one of those true total homer, silly and most far fetched/lop sided is i have heard in quite a while. Myers and change? lmao, you can’t make stuff like this up (well apparently you can)
July 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
No way the Rockies do this trade. I recognize this is written on a Phillies website and I am a Rockies fan (not against trading Holliday for the right price), but there is no way they do this. For all the reasons why you listed the Phillies should do the trade.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Hey Don M. Not that it matters, but there is not a single Italian on the Mets.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Great, I’m sure the Rockies would love to plug Myers into Coors, especially if they have the homerun derby there anytime soon.
A pitcher with a 6 ERA, a marginal major league player and a prospect for one of the best hitters in the game. Nice! Why don’t you see if they’ll take one of your batboys and 10 maple bats for Aaron Cook.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
FYI on Blanton vs Mets in his career: 1-0, 2 GS, 0.00 ERA in 15 innings with 10 Ks.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
BA HA HA HAHAHAH
Just what we want to do, give up our superstar for Brett Myers! Just what Coors Field needs, a garbage pitcher who gives up a home run every other AB! We already HAVE Josh Towers and Victor Zambrano, why would we pay $17M for another washed up/formerly good pitcher? Oh, and Jayson Werth? Gee we didn’t watch him sit on the bench in LA for 2 years so we could suddenly trade Holliday for him! OH but pitching prospects. THERE’s a sure thing.
Seriously guys enough jokes you’re hurting my sides.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
When in Rome…
July 18th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
It is crazy to think that werth or victorino, myers and carrasco would be enough get matt holliday. if we are going to propose a trade to the rockies we would probably have to include werth, myers, carrasco and golson at the very least.
we can stop talking about matt holliday because it WILL NOT HAPPEN.
i would love to get another outfield bat, because jenkins blows and werth is a backup outfielder, but i would look more towards a jose guillen, or a gary matthews, who has fallen out of the outfield loop in los angeles.
here is a few moves they can make, but probably won’t — DFA taguchi, eaton, jenkins and gordon - trade for guillen/matthews to play RF/CF, bring up happ as a 2nd lefty in the bullpen, bring up golson as a speed guy/defensive replacement (basically what we hoped for out of taguchi).
July 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Hey lets go mets last time I checked Santana looked preety bad against the Reds and Pedro is headed back to the DL once again.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Yeah, keep debating over unrealistic things. This started with some guys idea. In that case, I heard that the Rangers are shopping Josh Hamilton. I say we give up Eaton for him.
Just an idea. Debate.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Make it Myers, Werth, Carrasco and Feliz and the Rockies will toss in Garrett Atkins with Holliday.
Get real!
July 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
You actually have to give up TALENT to recieve Holliday
July 18th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
What’s the logic behind Hamels not starting tonite? He is our best pitcher by far, so shouldn’t we get him as many starts as possible? He should be on full rest, so why not start him?
July 18th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I honestly don’t think this is such a ridiculous idea, despite many saying it is. If I’m the Rockies, obviously, I wouldn’t do the deal, but it’s a thought and there has been a good amount of discussion about Holliday lately.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
I think we could get Holliday for Victorino, Bastrado, Golson, Donald(could play 2B for them since Tulo is blocking him), and 2 other low level prospects.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Ken Rosenthal, via MLBTR:
“The Phillies were recently working on a blockbuster with Colorado that would have netted them Brian Fuentes and Matt Holliday for something like Shane Victorino, J.A. Happ, Carlos Carrasco, and Lou Marson. Those talks have stalled, and the added payroll might’ve been a problem for the Phillies anyway.â€
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/rosenthals-la-5.html
Get it done Gillick
July 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
See? I wasn’t that far off, people.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
More, directly from Rosenthal:
“The Phillies were working multiple fronts before acquiring right-hander Joe Blanton from the A’s. Among the possibilities that reached a standstill: A blockbuster for Rockies left fielder Matt Holliday and closer Brian Fuentes.
The talks probably will not revive, major-league sources said, even though the teams continue to scout each other and the Phillies used different players to obtain Blanton than they would need for Holliday and Fuentes.
Rival executives say that the Rockies are asking high for both, and that a deal for Holliday, in particular, is unlikely. But a combined package would make sense for several clubs — notably the Dodgers, who just lost closer Takashi Saito.
For Holliday and Fuentes, the Phillies probably would need to part with a package of Shane Victorino, left-hander J.A. Happ, Class AA right-hander Carlos Carrasco and Class AA catcher Lou Marson. Another of their better prospects, Class AA righty Antonio Bastardo, has a slight tear in his labrum.
Holliday would play right field, with Jayson Werth taking over full-time in center, then return to left next season if Pat Burrell departed as a free agent. After that, Holliday, too, would become a free agent.
The Phillies would prefer not to move Marson, who looms as the eventual replacement for the disappointing Carlos Ruiz. Payroll also would be an issue; Holliday and Fuentes are owed almost $6 million combined for the rest of the season, Victorino only about $190,000. The addition of Blanton already has added about $1.5 million.”
July 18th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I wonder what exactly stalled the talks…from the way Rosenthal puts it, it sounds like the Phils wouldn’t put Marson on the table. I’d like to see them roll the dice - the NL is there for the taking.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
If the Rox were considering that package for Holliday and Fuentes, why not offer Vic, Myers, Carrasco, and (if absolutely necessary to get the deal done) Golson/Donald for Holliday alone. We don’t need Fuentes and he’s gone after the season anyway (we’re not gonna pay him to set up for Lidge). If they really want a lefty reliever, there are cheaper ones to be had. Unless the Rox are dead-set on Marson, tough to see them not taking that package for Holliday alone given what they were asking for the Holliday/Fuentes pair
Adding Myers lets us call up Happ and evens out the salaries somewhat. It all depends on if you think he’ll get back to anything like his prior form. Personally, I think he’s finished as a starter, and we don’t need a $12MM set up guy. The Rockies will need a closer and that’s what Brett wants to do.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
the talks stalled because, um, it would TOTALLY deplete our tradable minor league prospects and give them a bonafide ready back-of-the-rotation starter. Not hard to see here.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
If the Rockies wanted a $12MM closer they’d just keep Fuentes.
Why is it that when a player becomes expendable, especially expensive ones, that they become the centerpiece for a blockbuster trade?
July 18th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Myers, Werth and Carasco for Holliday? I don’t think so. Tim, imagine for a minute that you’re the Rockies GM. Pat Gillick approaches you and says, “I’d like to trade for Matt Holliday. I’m prepared to offer a package built around a starting pitcher who will make $12 million next season and is currently toiling in the minors. Oh, and he punched his wife in the face in the middle of a crowded street a couple of years ago.”
Is there any chance you make that trade? Any chance at all?
Carasco and Werth (or Victorino) are desirable players. But there’s no way Gillick is going to convince any team to trade for Myers, whose contract is too large and who comes with too much baggage. No chance.
FWIW, Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Phillies were recently working on a blockbuster with Colorado that would have netted them Brian Fuentes and Matt Holliday for something like Shane Victorino, J.A. Happ, Carlos Carrasco, and Lou Marson. But that probably won’t happen, since the Phillies would have to take on a lot of salary.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Hmmm…obviously, Ken Rosenthal’s report is old news.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I would like to see the move that would send Howard and Myers to them for Holiday. Pat could always resign ( he make way more conntact than Howard) and sign Pat for 10 MM that we are spending on Howard. Put Pat at First. He was an infielder coming out of college.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Coley, you’re being too hard on Myers. He’s not “toiling.” He’s having “fun.”
Kidding aside, I do agree with you. I can’t see the Rockies agreeing to Myers. But I threw it out there because it obviously isn’t THAT far fetched, especially considering the Phils and Rox were talking about a trade including Holliday.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
If we get Holliday we’ll have 4 MVPs as our 1-4 hitters. That would be god like. Move over Rangers. We will now have the best 1-4 line up in baseball, not you.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
This is totally unrealistic. The Rockies have at least three better options than Brett Myers to step into the closers role in Taylor Buchholz, Manny Corpas and David Weathers — who was picked to be on the US Olympic. If Myers can’t start, he’s of even less value to the Rockies than he is to the Phillies.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Sorry to disagree, but yes, it is THAT far fetched. It makes absolutely no sense for the Rockies to take on the salary of a player that can’t contribute (Myers) when they’re getting rid of a player who does contribute (Holliday).
If any team hopes to trade for Holliday, they better start off the negotiations by offering their organization’s #1 prospect. That alone, however, wouldn’t be enough. So, I don’t know why you think a deal centered around Carrasco and Myers so even mildly tempting.
July 18th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Phils were close to getting Holliday and Fuentes for Shane Vic, Marson, Happ and Carrasco. Anyone else think that that is way too much to give away? Our farm system would be wiped out.
Why can’t we save ourselves some future pitching and give away Myers with Vic and another minor prospect? Anyone think that’s a fair trade for Fuentes and Holliday?
July 18th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
you are crazy if you think colorado wants myers. You can unclude happ in that deal for holliday & fuentes!
July 18th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Sean -
I don’t think the package is too much in light of what we’d be getting back, but it would wipe out the farm and isn’t a smart move for that reason, especially given that Fuentes would be a rental (and Holliday would probably walk after ‘09, but a lot could happen between now and then, so hard to say).
The Phils should forget Fuentes; the Rox are asking wayyyyy to much for him and I don’t see him as being a big difference maker for them at this point. They should try to work a deal for Holliday. The price will be huge, too, but less then Holliday and Fuentes. It’s worth seeing if the Rockies would want Myers. If not, the deal would have to be Carrasco, Donald, and Golson/Marson/Savery or something like that. I think if you can hang on to either Carrasco or Marson, you do it, no matter who else you give up. Holliday would be a huge difference in this offense, and would free up the pitchers to be more aggressive knowing we’re gonna score 7-plus runs a game.
You take a huge chunk out of the farm, but substantially up the chances of winning now. Worth it to me, especially since we’d get another full season out of Holliday after this one, and the Phils could easily position themselves to be even stronger next year by getting a legit #2 starter in free agency.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Sean Says:
July 18th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Phils were close to getting Holliday and Fuentes for Shane Vic, Marson, Happ and Carrasco. Anyone else think that that is way too much to give away? Our farm system would be wiped out.
Why can’t we save ourselves some future pitching and give away Myers with Vic and another minor prospect? Anyone think that’s a fair trade for Fuentes and Holliday?
LOL!!!!! There are some really foolish and uneducated (in a baseball sense, except for Lets Go Mets whom is just a complete jackass), but WOW is this one just STUPID. Let’s see, the Rockies are just so anxious to give away an MVP-type player who is probably the best, pure right-handed hitter in the NL! In fact, they would take an average everyday outfielder, an inconsistent, overpaid Brett Myers that does not want to be traded, AND some low-level prospect with little chance of making a large impact on the major league level. It makes perfect sense to get rid of a young superstar for guys of equal age and have little chance of ever making significant development past their current level of which, as previously noted, do not make all that much less than Holliday with Myers’ high salary. Can you, and many others for that matter, PLEASE educate yourselves a little bit before attempting to contribute to a legitimate baseball conversation?
Now that my rant is over, this deal generally makes sense for both teams. OBVIOUSLY, forget the Myers mantra unless the Phillies were willing to absorb a decent amount of his salary (not likely with this ownership). The Rockies know Holliday is not going to return after the 2009 season. Price tag is simply too high. After the poor attendance early on in the season (prior to the free fall), the ownership is quite fed up and discouraged by the fan base. They are questioning whether baseball will be supported by the region in the long-term and will not retain a high payroll without the proper fan support. Even though I still believe the team has a strong run left in them because of the exceptionally weak NL West, the Rockies management realizes that Holliday’s value is far higher now than it would be next year when he would only have 3 months left on his contract. The extra year makes a very large difference, regardless of whether or not an extension is attainable with Scott Boras as his agent. That means the receivers of Holliday have 2 shots to win with him as opposed to just one and done. This also allows the given team an offseason of free agency to put more peices around him (pitching).
The prospects mentioned in the Rosenthal article, that I actually heard earlier in the week from a few friends involved in the game, are legitimate top-level prospects that the Phillies should not part with in entirety if all possible. They really need Lou Marson. He can flat out hit, has good size and plays relatively good defense from the scouting reports I’ve seen. Carrasco I think has the potential to be the next Volquez. His stuff is that good. Will he ever gain control in the strike zone that is necessary to be an ace in the big leagues? Time will tell as it does with any player, but he’s a very enticing player that is quickly rising the rung of top-level prospects once again. Many team, including the Phillies at one time, also project him to be a strong closing candidate. Happ is going to be a very solid middle of the rotation guy in my opinion. He will help any team, right now; a very desirable chip for anyone. His recent MLB starts, combined with his dominating performance in Lehigh last night, greatly rose his stock and marketability. The point is, the Rockies are getting very strong to perhaps blue-chip talent in this deal and should be adequate enough to get the deal done. From what I was told the stalling came on the Phillies end when they were asked to part with all 3. While I believe you have to do whatever it takes to get Holliday, the Phillies do need to think considerably before parting with those players and weigh that against their probabilities of signing Holliday to an extension. If thats not going to happen, then the deal is not as good as it looks for the Phillies. But hell, Holliday and Fuentes pretty much seals up the NL and gives you a legitimate shot at a World Series title. After waiting for 28 years, I say go for it, although that would all still hinge on their rotational issues.
Lastly, I love the acquisition of Blanton and see him as a solid number 2/3 guy. He eats innings, has above average stuff, works very hard, exudes passion for the game and needed a change of scenery. I wholly expect him to excel here and shock a lot of people. I also believe that Myers has turned it around and will much better than anyone believes he will be. I.E. he returns to previous form. Why? He’s been talked down from his ledge just a bit and does not want to be traded at all. Therefore, he must get it together or he’s not going to be very happy with the consequences.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:24 am
I like what you’re sayin here… what about Pat? Where does he end up in 09?
July 19th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Mendo, we can’t give up Marson. If you saw our catching problems you’d know Marson can’t go. I’d prefer to not give up Carrasco either, but for Holliday I would.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:22 am
I don’t think we can give up Carrasco or Happ. Period. I’m taking the Geoff mantra here (where has he been lately, btw?), and saying that you shouldn’t trade legitimate pitching talent. Happ is MLB-ready, and people are saying Carrasco is comparable to a young Josh Beckett. Even if that’s hyperbolized (and it likely is), it still means Carrasco has a very high ceiling.
Happ/Kendrick are our Nos. 4-5 for years to come, and they’re damn solid. Blanton is a fine No. 3 next year. No. 2 is the worry. It could be Carrasco. If not, you get someone in free agency. But legit MLB starting pitchers are rare (very few teams have five of ‘em), pitching is harder to find than hitting, pitching wins championships, etc. Look at Gavin Floyd. For years, Hamels and Floyd were the only untouchables in the Pharm system. Floyd got off to a bad start here, and we traded him for Garcia. One year later, he is living up to the ceiling that was projected for him. If he were here now, the division race would already be over and we’d be pissed that the AL won the World Series.
We already lost Outman. If we lost Carrasco and Happ, there would literally be nothing left on the mound in our Pharm system.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:46 am
Phil:
Yeah, I agree with you. I pretty much said that in my previous post. They cannot give up what looks to be a top 5 hitting catcher and a stout receiver with a strong arm. They NEED a catcher, like now. Coste has done a superb job and is far better than Ruiz overall, but he simply cannot handle the everyday rigors of the job. Simply put, Ruiz is an offensive liability. He doesn’t just hit poorly; he’s the worst hitter in the league amongst everyday players. His swing mechanics are atrocious and not that of a professional baseball player. I’ve played with many guys in college with better swing mechanics and hitting approaches. In an attempt to stay inside the ball, he ends up flying open and rolling over on flat out meatballs that many collegiete level players would handle with more consistency. Being a slow, contact, groundball-type hitter with no speed and a weak contact point makes for a ton of DPs which has killed an inordinate amount of rallies. Hell, even on his “good” swings he doesn’t extend through the ball like professional hitters do. He is part of the reason for the decreased run production for Rollins. There’s never anyone on base for him because Ruiz is too busy hitting them out of big RBI situations.
I’m a proponent of calling Marson up sometime in August, if not now. Double-A baseball actually has a higher level of talent than does Triple-A. Notice how many of the big super-rookies and such make the leapfrog over Triple-A right into the majors. This is mostly because Double-A is the final breeding ground for the majority of the bigtime talents and Triple-A serves more as a warehouse for utility men, end of the rotation and mid-pen setup guys that are optioned back and forth to fill in for injured players on the MLB rosters. This is not ALWAYS the case, obviously, but just look at how many ex-MLB journeymen and role players are optioned back and forth between the two levels in comparison. Really, would it hurt Marson that much if he were to come up and hit, say .250?? Thats FAR better than Ruiz and I do believe he’s more of a flyball/linedrive hitter. However, with all that said, I still probably have to take Holliday when all is said and done.
Lewisauce,
The Phillies actually have a lot more pitching talent that you or many other people really know about. The guys I’m speaking are just very young and currently in Rookie Ball, requiring many more years of seasoning. Do you want to give up Carrasco and Happ? Absolutely not. But if you can give up Carrasco and Happ, but NOT Marson, you’re doing the trade all day long. There is no possible way you can pass up on arguably one of the top 3 hitters currently in the game; all because of solid middle of the rotation potential in Happ and, once again the key word is potential, top of the rotation dreams for Carrasco. I think Carlos has absurd possibilities, but its all speculation until the kid actually comes into the MLB and does it with consistency. We’ve been down this road way too many times and probably passed on at least 2 World Series appearances while Wade was here all because they valued their prospects too much, most of which have barely seen or thrown a pitch in the majors!
Remember, Holliday is still YOUNG, and if you can convince him to stay long-term, you will have one of the greatest offensive clubs in the history of the game. Utley/Holliday/Howard = ~150 HRs per year if all stay healthy. There’s also no telling how much better they’ll all be from the affects of having one another in the same lineup.
Get it done Pat!
July 19th, 2008 at 5:41 am
Mendo’s right on the money here, though I’d do the trade so long as we’re not giving up all 3 of Marson, Carrasco, and Happ. Any combination of the two, plus a lower-level prospect, and we have to do it. Yeah, we desperately need a catcher, but what is Marson like defensively and in terms of calling games? Is he really ready to step in and handle the pitching staff late this year or next year? If our 1-5 hitters are Rollins, Utley, Holliday, Howard, and Burrell, I don’t really care if GIDP Ruiz hits .120. The team is still going to score 8 runs per game. We just can’t give up all 3 of them; it’s too much even for Holliday.
Unfortunately, between the salary we’d be adding and the cost in prospects, it’s really hard to see the Phils pulling off a Holliday trade.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Mendo, one thing you need to realize is that bringing up Marson now to replace Ruiz would mess with the pitching. It’s something you can just do and have pitchers be okay with that. The reason Ruiz gets so many starts over Coste is because the pitchers prefer him. Ruiz makes our pitchers THAT much better. He has the best ERA behind the plate than any catcher in the NL. The guy can call a game. I’d rather have a catcher that can work with pitchers than a catcher that can rake. As for Marson, you don’t know if he can call a game, but boy does that guy have a cannon. You cannot trade Marson. He seems like a smart guy from hearing him in interviews and stuff. He’ll probably learn to work with the pitchers I’m sure. Ruiz wouldn’t be an offensive liability if the rest of our offense wasn’t streaky. You still need to make Marson an untouchable. We don’t necessarily need Carrasco and Happ. Savery is supposed to be as good as Carrasco. Drabek was supposed to be incredible too, but we don’t know what’s up with his injury. As much as you guys don’t want to see Moyer return next year, I think he will. If Moyer can return and pitch to as well next year as this year, then I have no problem with him being in the back end with Kendrick. If Myers can come back and get his shit together then he’ll be our #2. Hamels, a fixed Myers, Blanton, Kendrick, Moyer is a good rotation. KEndrick is only going to get better too. I’d still jump all over signing Sheets. That’s wishful thinking though. His injuries have never been that bad. He broke a finger and had tendinitis in his leg. He’s never had arm issues.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:18 am
I’ll trade for Holiday and that includes Carrasco! I want a World Series damnit!
July 19th, 2008 at 9:29 am
If Myers and Blanton can pitch to their potential our pitching IS good enough for a WS. Our bullpen certainly is. Going into the post season our rotation needs to look like this though.
Hamels
Moyer
Blanton
Myers/Kendrick
Moyer is our #2 in the post season. He’s such a big game pitcher. I think with the experience this team got last year and the taste of it will leave them wanting more and will go deeper. A Blanton and Myers pitching to their potential could be ridiculously potent. It’s not Sabathia/Sheets or Harden/Zambrano/Dempster, but we can take out Sabathia/Sheets and Harden/Zambrano with Hamels and Moyer pitching. I really have that much confidence in those 2 guys in the post season.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I forgot to add this in my last post. If our line up was
Rollins
Utley
Holliday
Howard
Burrell
Werth
Feliz
Ruiz
Pitcher
That’s the most deadly line up ever. I don’t care if Ruiz doesn’t get a hit at all in the playoffs. That line up is deadly. Holliday is ridiculously clutch in the post season. Just look at his #s last year in the post season. That really might be the best line up ever, and when you throw Marson into the equation next year…oh man.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Yesterday on the philadelphia news they said the phillies had a trade where they would receive Matt Holiday and Fuentes for Carlos Carassco Happ and a bunch of their other top prospects but it fell through
July 19th, 2008 at 9:51 am
I don’t want Fuentes. Give them whatever they want for Holliday as long as Marson isn’t involved. Give them Jaramillo.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:20 am
y not fuentes
July 19th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I’d rather grab Grabow. He’d be cheaper.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
I like Grabow or Mahay better than Fuentes, and it would not cost the entire farm system to get either of those guys.
As far as Holliday goes, it won’t happen, between the Phillies management being cheap, and the Rockies not wanting to let go of one of the MLB’s top players, but here’s wishful thinking: Holliday and a couple toss-ins from Single A Ball for Myers, Victorino, Golson, Carrasco, Donald.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
The Rockies are making noise about Taveras being on the block. If they want Victorino, structure it so Taveras and not Fuentes is involved. I’d hate to see the Phils give up that much for a guy who is going to leave in November. I’m sure the Phils can find a cheaper lefty reliever out there to take the load off of Romero. Also, either Carrasco or Happ, not both. I would keep Happ. I like what I saw. When he gets comfortable he could become something special. Three big league pitches and he knows how to use them. It’s a matter of comand. So, I would trade Myers, Victorino, Carrasco, another blue chip prospect, and possibly Kendrick or Werth for Holliday and Taveras. Then look for a cheaper lefty reliever.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
An edit to the previous post. The second prospect would not necessarily be a blue chip. The annexing of Fuentes from the deal would not require Marson or Donald. Taveras is important because Werth is not an everyday centerfielder. Plus, I’m getting a little frustrated with Rollins this year. I still like him and enjoy watching him but he’s having one of those years in which he might not get totally straightened out. Taveras could lead off and Rollins hit second. Taveras is already a top base stealer, Lopes would send him to the next level. Utley next,then Holliday and Howard. And so on. Sounds like runs to me and I believe Taveras will manufacture more runs than Vic. That all said, the Rockies are starting to win and might not be moving anybody.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Hey Mutt fan,
With the room temperature IQ….Why don’t you slip into something more comfortable……LIKE A COMA!!
Met fans are so stupid, they could’nt empty a boot full of water if the instructions were written on the bottom.
And you certainly havent broken the mold Skippy. If brains were taxed; you’d get a rebate. Your like an Opiate, A slow working dope!
Now save your Breath. You’ll need it to blowup your date.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
How about this trade?
Carrasco, Myers, Werth, Taguchi, Dobbs, Victorino, and Gordon for A-Rod?
The Yankees would get six guys for just one of their own! And this would definitely make the Phillies better!
July 21st, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I say deffiently give up carrasco, victorino and happ for holliday itself… but I would also add a jarimillo or something to have Fuentes involved. we cannot get rid of marson he is the catcher of the future. holliday would send this team to the world series to offset the bad pitching… and also we would need to add another low level starter. I would talk about trading myers or eaton but I know that is too perfect and unrealistic