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Gameday: Phillies (53-45) At Marlins (51-46)
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Sun, July 20, 2008 12:34 PM
The Phillies will look to take the three-game series from the Marlins today as Cole Hamels faces Josh Johnson.
For Johnson, it’s his second start back from Tommy John surgery. In his first, he went five innings, giving up three runs while striking out six and walking none. Not bad. For Hamels, it’s his 21st start of the season. He’s received a nice rest since his last start a week ago, and he’ll try to have his ninth consecutive start of seven innings or more.
In his only start against the Fish this season, Hamels had one of the worst starts of his career. He went 5.2 innings, giving up seven runs on eight hits.
Phillies: Cole Hamels (9-6) 3.15 ERA
Marlins: Josh Johnson (0-0) 5.40 ERA
Gametime: 1:10 p.m. EST
Weather: 89, storms
Lineup: Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Burrell, Jenkins, Feliz, Ruiz, Hamels
MLB TV
MLB Gameday Audio
MLB Gameday
Your gameday beer: Yesterday I tried Phin & Matt’s Extraordinary Ale from Southern Tier. I smelled it, and it smelled like a pale ale. I sipped it, and I narrowed it down to an American Pale Ale. I looked it up to find out, and I was dead on. This APA is distinct with strong bitterness, but that’s what you want out of a pale ale. It wasn’t bad. Nothing great, and nothing I’d drink regularly. But it was good. Eat some oysters with it.
Go Phillies!
174 Responses to “Gameday: Phillies (53-45) At Marlins (51-46)”
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July 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I have a bad feeling about this one. Looking at the pitching matchup, this is the sorta game where Hamels gives up two solo homers and we lose 4-2. I hope I’m wrong.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Feeling good, the offense has shown up ready from the get go with both the bats and on the basepaths.
Go Cole!
July 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
shoulda gotten more than 1 run there but good to see them get some offense early. howard is such a beast.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
scot I’m no math teacher, but wouldn’t 2 solo homers give them only 2 runs?
yes, they should have gtten at least two in the first..
Anyone else think that Charlie has Cole pitching todat bc he thought the bp would need some rest after moyer and kendrick each went (although he probably expected more from Kyle yesterday)?
July 20th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
that’s an interesting way to look at it. I hope that’s not his thought process. What are the pitching matchups for the mets series?
July 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
This is gold from Howard. Forget the bases empty dingers, he’s driving runs in and moving guys over on a consistent basis.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Phillies at Mets for July 22nd is: Blanton vs. Santana
July 23rd is: Myers? vs. Maine
July 24th is: ? vs. Perez
July 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
24th is moyer
July 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Blanton has been shutting down the Mets his last couple of starts I think…
His first start for Philly looks like Baptism by fire. Throw him into the mix and lets see how he responds.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
geoff jenkins is back!
July 20th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Blanton I do not think ever faced the Mets.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I would of liked to see Cole vs Santana!
July 20th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Our baserunning and situational hitting is so pathetic.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Hey metsfan: you stupid piece of shit moron. Blanton has faced the Muts twice. He’s 1-0 with a 0.00 ERA in 15IP - 1BB and 10K’S.
You’re a dumb little bitch.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Geoff Jenkins is a dumb fuck that happens to be somewhat good defensively
July 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
What is your problem? I just said I was not sure.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Mike T. what the fuck was your problem?
July 20th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I thought Blanton has a pretty decent track record against the Muts…let’s hope it continues Wednesday.
Mike T. as far as our situational hitting, it is pretty disgusting to look at, we should have a comfortable lead right now instead I am drinking pepto hoping we hang on.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Scot, I think I’ll let you pick some horse races for me too.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
fuck I wrote that a minute too soon, fucking a.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
why the hell can’t we score for our best pitcher? fuck the marlins.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
mike t that was pretty uncalled for. its people like you who give our fans a bad rep
July 20th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Mike t dude relax.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Glad bruntless came in for that show of power. I guess Uncle Charlie is automatically gonna pull Pat no matter how good he is hitting. Is our backup ss that good of a lf that we need him in there??
July 20th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Exactly John g.
The only reason I don’t feel bad for Burrell for missing the ASG was because he never played a full game. If you’re an allstar hitter you can make it 9 innings.
It may not be his choice, but has he complained about taking innings off??
July 20th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
This Umpire is giving Ramirez problems.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I would also like to put out a hit on Chris Wheeler.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I am sick of this shit. Unless they trade for a guy that can do some situational hitting then I’m done watching this team.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Great game Sillies. Christ!!! I love how Hamels pitches great and the team scores 2 freakin’ runs.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
They absolutely disgust me. I’m sorry, but we have the most overrated shitty offense in baseball.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
y is condrey in in that game….durbins an ex starter why isnt he still in??????? condrey better be gone when myers gets back…he gave up runs yesterday and lst it today.so phucking pissed and condreydoesnt deserve to be in the majoprs
July 20th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
we cant win without homeruns.its gross
July 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
First time I’ve ever seen so many fans ready to give up on a team in first place! Things are only bound to get worse when the Mets sweep the series at Shea this week…
July 20th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Yeah, because I’m sure oyu’re going to sweep Jose.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Do not worry the Mets are probably going to do the same thing. And it doesn’t matter because the season starts Tuesday and should be a good one from here on out. And the same thing happens when Santana pitches, no run support.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Who else are you going to bring in Chris M? They had a man on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs. Do you want Durbin hitting or Coste? That’s why they took out Durbin.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Yo homeboy. I got news for ya, the Mets WILL NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. I’ve never seen a team blow a division lead like the mets did last year.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I even do not see the mets sweeping the phillies. Its going to be a good one!
July 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
our table setters are a huge problemo right now…probaly our biggest now that we got a starter
July 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Yeah, seriously, why do the aces never get run Kendrick gets 5 runs and can’t win games?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
You’d rather have Eaton in that situation? It would have been over alot quicker. A quick bomb.
The Phillies offense is so overrated. I really think you have to put Pat in between Chase and RH, and leave him in the games when its close. Rollins has to start getting on base more.
Also, if you remember last year, the reason Rollins drove in 90 runs is that the bottom of our lineup was OBP at a .340 clip. 6-8 is lucky to be on base .250 this year.
Plus, how many hard hit balls can you count from the Phils today?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
This team just disgusts me. Coste has been choking harder than Ruiz lately.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
And people wonder why we’re trying to sell the farm for Holliday. Holliday would have made things happen, I guarantee it.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
forgot bout the pinch hitter had the game on mute…anyways why is condrey on this team??/ he was never in a close game in the beguinning of the eason and lately he has and he makes me as sick as watching eaton
July 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
For this team…..Randy Winn would be more valuable a pick up than Matt Holliday. There I said it. Fire…..
July 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Why is no one talking about Howard? Bases loaded, 2 out, no runs scored. Take giant leap towards the freaking plate!!! You’ll hit those sliders to the opposite field!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Ryan Howard is going to fail sometimes. They need some doubles for god’s sake out of the other 7 guys.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Do you people expect the Phillies to win every single game? You win some, you lose some. And this year your team has won more than they’ve lost. I don’t understand the malcontent.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Howard had our only 2 RBI’s in situational hits, Drew.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I’m not going to blame Condrey for this loss either, I blame Chris Coste. I actually knew when he walked up to the plate we were fucked. I would have rather have had So Taguchi coming up. Coste has been cold lately.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I’m mean Babe Ruth lead the league in strickouts and homeruns in 4 different seasons, but Howard is not Ruth, and it’s a different game. But what the hell, why does he not see what he’s doing wrong?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
The Phillies might still be up a game. We have a 2 run lead in the 9th and Wagner is in the game.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Howard hasn’t been doing anything wrong, Drew. He’s carrying this fucking team. He’s the only guy driving in runs.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I like Ryan Howard, and I know what he is capable of. My point is: pitchers figured out how to handle him, his hands are so quick that if he takes a step closer to the plate, he could smack those inside pitches.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
And the Muts win. Can some stat guru do me a favor and look up what the Phillies record is in games they don’t hit a home run?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
mets won, however, the marlins are not going away, so this could be a 3 team race going into september
July 20th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
It will be Joshua. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bravos picked up a big bat and made a run too. They have the most underrated rotation in the NL.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
I agree. This is the best division race in the MLB.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
NL Central is a good one too.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Marlins are out. The East is going to be Mets and Phillies battling it out till the end and probably both will make the post season.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Best 3 teams in the National league are Cubs, Mets & Phillies!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
both will make the postseason?? get real. the WC is going to a team in the Central..on.y 1 team from the east will go to the playoffs
July 20th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Yeah, WC isn’t necessarily going to the central Metsfan. Marlins, Mets, and Phillies all have a shot at the WC. I’d prefer for the east to get the WC if the Phillies win the division. This way we’d play that shitty west team by default and the Cubs/Brewers/Cards would play the Mets/Marlins/Braves. I’d rather play the shitty west coast team 1st.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
OK the frustration has past for this game. I’m thinking about the Mucking Fets. I cannot stand this team. Does it bother anybody that the mets are our division rival or that there fans show up at our ballpark like they belong there?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Not entirely Joshua. Mets and Phillies are 3 games out of the WC race. The Fish are 3.5 games out.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Yeah, Drew. It’s okay, I’m going to Shea Thursday with my Boo Fuck You shirt on.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
I was at Phillies Mets game last year, and I was in the bathroom next to a guy who was talking soo much shit, and the mets lost that game. I felt like pissing all over this guy. He was fat and smelled like a NY gutter. What is it with them?
July 20th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
It’s all good, my girlfriend is a Phillies fan so I like to have the rivalry with the Phillies it makes it fun. The Mets and the Braves where the rivals for years but their fans suck! They do not have the passion for the game and team like the Met & Phillie fans do!!
July 20th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I remember when the Phillies and the Braves were rivals too. It just blows my mind that Phillies Phans would let CBP be taken over by another teams fans. Ever so often you hear lets go mets. Lets go Philly whos house is it?
July 20th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Drew, the MEts fans barely take over CBP. There are like 1 Muts fan for every 100 Phillies fans when the Mets come to town.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
What hurts is New Jersey has a lot of Met fans and Philly is easier to get to then Shea.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I nominate Jimmy Rollins for the Steve Jeltz. Condrey was terrible but if Rollins ran the bases like he was supposed to, we wouldn’t have had to worry about Condrey. I think it’s time to bench him again.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Can we talk about uncle Charlie as sec more?? He is automatic, makes the same exact move every game. No feel for the game or for the pitching staff. I happen to live in Orlando and am there right now. It is humid as fuck. Miami is always worse. Cole pitched his ass off today, gives you 7 strong. Lets give it to the bullpen and let the poor guy get a win. He makes a mistake, possible due to fatigue in the heat and he loses the win and phils lose the game. Condrey has a 3.5 something, but teams are hitting .300 off him. That is unacceptable.
Howard needs to step it up in the clutch, and why have Taguchi n the bench at all if he is so bad he cannot play. CUt him. Make a move for a bat that can be clutch, maybe let Pat finish a game here and there.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Question also, i am at work and watching the espn gamecast…in the 11th with feliz on first and two outs, ruiz (miracle) hits a single to right. With two outs shouldnt feliz been on third?? We score on wild pitch. Was this another baserunning mistake or was it not a ball to run on??
July 20th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
John, I understand where you’re coming from, But Charlie is good manager. It’s up to the players to go out there perform. You have to admit that. Cole goes out there and does his job, where is Rollins, Howard, Burrell, & Utley? You can’t put even 75% of the blame on Charlie.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Hamels was at 82 pitches going into the 8th. Not Charlie’s fault at all. That’s a low pitch count. He could have thrown a complete game. I blame the game on guys not being able to hit in the clutch. Once again people are throwing Howard under the bus when he drove in our only 2 runs.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Phil, I guess I agree with you about Howard. But I’m not throwing him under the bus. I think at the rate he’s going now, by not making any ajustments at the plate, he will not improve. They have to, as a team play better. It’s not just one player.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
When Hamels pitches, he goes like 7, 8 innings and the team scores opposing team scores 2 or 3 runs on him.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
You can’t get carried away. They lost a game and thats going to happen. The Mets lost a lot blamed it on the Manager, Players and GM. The Phillies are going to win more then they lose. Every team is going to lose a game here and there.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Pure and simple were loosing too many close games, it is catagorically going to hurt us in September. There can be no excuses from this point, when we loose fine but it has to be because we’re beaten by the better team.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
It was nice talking to you guys. I’m gonna get going. Talk to ya next time.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Every team gets hot and cold. And I rather be cold now and hot at the end of the season. Look at what happen last year with the mets. They got cold at the wrong time.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I agree that it is unreal that they cannot score for cole. Too many chances in thi s game and many more for the offense to come thru and they haven’t. Up until the 8th there was 7 philly hits, none below burrell. THat is horrible. we need a clutch hit here and there and we are fine.
My point about charlie is that he always makes the same move, whether it works or not. Cole pitched a great game today, and that heat will take it out of you. Hindsight i s 20/20 but we could change things here and there.
The offense seems to rely on one guy having a big day. Today Howard was trying to carry them, but got the big late inning K that Abreu made us all familar with. Yesterday it was burrell. this team is alot better when they all seem to contribute a little.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
It comes down to this. The season starts today. We are tied for first like we were in april. They need to step it up from here on out and we can all sleep easier and drink our beer happily. GO PHILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Your right the season starts tuesday. And its going to be a fight to the finish. But I do expect to see the Mets and the Phillies both in the Post Season!! With the Cubs & Arizona!
July 20th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
As I’ve said before there’s only one part of this team working as a unit and thats the bullpen. There’s spatterings of it with the offense but they aren’t putting pressure on the oppenents pitching staff consistently through the game in the majority of games, although we only came out of the 1st with 1 run it was a great start but very little sustained pressure. You look at the Mets and they virtually chased Volquez from the game as soon as he took the mound and then drove it home limiting him to a short outing.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I guess they are in just a little funk. Let metsfan said (hard to type those words but he seems like a classy baseball fan) it is better to be cold now and hot in aug sept and october. GO PHILLIES!!!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
The Mets have to get the lead early because of their average bullpen. If the starters do not get off to a good start and have to go to the bullpen early the game is over for them. I wish the mets had a bullpen like the Phillies because the bullpen is going to help win and save games. The Mets lost a lot of games this year because of their bullpen. I would not let todays game get to you because your offense is incredible and your bullpen is tremendous.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
We can talk all we want about the offense scoring runs for Hamels, but at the end of the day Hamels has t keep the goddamn ball in the park. In meaningful or high profile games this season that Hamels has pitched, the Phils have lost more than they have won, and a large part is because Hamels doesn’t keep the ball in the park.
Opening series vs the Nats after Myers Loss - L
Vs Mets with Santana pitching - L
vs Giants with Lincecum pitching - L
2 games vs Marlins - LX2
I gotta be honest, I’m glad Hamels isn’t going in the Mets series, cause I can’t think of a meaningful game that he has won this season. When the spotlight is at it’s highest, Hamels presses, gets macho, and the balls leave the park. Frankly I’m tired of it. He’s not a #1, he’s a #2. It’s been proven over the past two seasons.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
He might be pitching like a #2 now but he still has the stuff to be a #1 and would be on most teams!
July 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Scot, that is the most retarded thing I’ve ever heard. Will anyone argue that Johan Santana has been one of the most dominant pitchers in the past 5 years? I highly doubt it. He has the same problem, he lets up the long ball. Hamels and Santana are mirror images of eachother. They have the same exact stuff and poise, and they have the same weakness. You shouldn’t be allowed to watch the Phillies ever again for blaming Hamels for our losses. He let up 2 runs in 8 IP. Who cares how he let them up, the point is it was only 2 runs. You have to be kidding me to blame him. Blame the fucking offense for all of his losses. His 1st game of the season where he lost 1-0 he let up 2 hits. It was a solo home run. The Phillies had 1 hit. They have the most overrated and pathetic offense in baseball. Hamels is a #1, and a spectacular #1 at that. He’s one of the best pitchers in the NL. Top 5 probably.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
No Metsfan Hamels is pitching like a #1. Would you consider Santana your ace?
July 20th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
god, a lot of overreacting today. tough series loss after we just came off two really good ones. we’re going into a series where we can gain the ground right back and then some. people need to chill out.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Come on Scot the guys barely getting hit, he’s shown this season he’s a bonifide number one who can dominate and at the very least the best soft ace in the game. I’m sure we’d all complain with you about the home runs surrendered if he was giving up base runners like Myers was but he’s pitched a 150 innings already with a WHIP barely over 1…
Come on be real here, all in all he pitched a very good game today.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Phil, bottom line is this, Hamels has allowed the other team to score more runs in all these games I mentioned. I don’t give a damn if he gives up 10 hits over 8 innings, as long as he dances around it and gets out without giving up runs.
I say the same thing about Santana when I’ve criticized him this season, his tendency to give up the long ball has hurt the team. Hamels tendency to give up the long ball has hurt the Phils. There is no doubt about it.
He’s a good pitcher, he isn’t nearly as good as he believes he is, or some of the lemmings around here who look for anyone else to blame but Hamels for his shortcomings.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Sorry Scot but that’s just a waste of a reply.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I’m just explaining to Scot that even if he thinks Hamels is not pitching like a #1 he still is a #1. And would be on most teams! If he was on the mets he would be the #2 because of santana but he still is a #1 starter on a majority of teams!
July 20th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
NJ, it’s not something I’m making up out of thin air, it’s happened several times this year. I have less confidence when Hamels takes the mound in a big game than Moyer. Look at the first post of this thread, I’m not saying this shit just to be contrarian. I’m saying this cause I’ve seen it too many damn times this season.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Saying hamels is not your #1 is like saying santana is not our #1 starter.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I’m not saying Hamels isn’t the Phils #1. He obviously is, we don’t have anyone better.
I’m saying it’s a shame we don’t have anyone better.
July 20th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
You should be happy with him there are not alot of pitchers out there that are better then him. Hamels is Ranked in the top 10 of all major league pitchers so who would you want to replace him?
July 20th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
More confidence in Moyer than Hamels, I love the way Moyer pitches but that’s just stupid. a starting pitcher with a WHIP of 1 is something managers cream themselves over and his WHIP would be under 1 if he hadn’t given up a lot of hits in his last start.
Phil said it perfectly. 1st start of the season 2 hit 1 run ball off a homer and still took the loss because he gets poor run support and tonight was another example. Do you consider Santana to be an ace? Compare their numbers…
We score 1 more run before the 8th inning tonight and you wouldn’t even be making this stupid point. I hate to jump on a fellow Phils fan but your point has no validity, there’s more wieght in critisising Lidge.
July 20th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
You think its a shame we don’t have anyone better?? Yeah I heard a Cards fan say they wish they had someone better manning 1st for them…
Go be a Yanks fan dude, you clearly have no appreciation of baseball
July 20th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
the mets will win the division and the phillies will win the wild card. you guys have to calm down, the phillies offense isnt overrated, its one of the best, if not the best in the national league. the mets have a better rotation then the phillies though, along with a fairly easy schedule (one at CBP against you guys, but after that all against the nationals, marlins, and braves mostly at home) in september. i still dont think the brewers are that good, and the cardinals will collapse
July 20th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
scot, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Hamels did his job, as he almost always does.
But once again, our offense is exposed for what it is: a bunch of guys who aren’t patient and who can be outsmarted by ANY pitcher who is willing to think through the game. Any pitcher who approaches our hitters with a game plan will be able to dominate them. This kid today had no record and a 5.4 ERA. Against the Red Sox, he’d have been chased by the third or fourth inning after giving up six runs.
Our hitters are not disciplined, are not thinking about situational baseball — again. Jimmy got up in the fourth or fifth inning and lead off by swinging at and popping up the first pitch. Vic got a bunt single, but no one could do anything about moving him. Against a pitcher who is coming off his second start since Tommy John surgery, the Phils should have been taking pitches and making the guy sweat. But nope. They got up there and tried to whack 800-foot home runs as soon as they saw a pitch they liked, regardless of the count, the inning, the base running situation, the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing pitcher, etc. And when the dingers didn’t come, we lost.
This is Charlie’s problem to fix, and he has not chosen to do so.
N.B. to Brett Myers: Watch anyone with competence pitch against the Phillies, and you will see some of what you need to do to get back to the big leagues. Other pitchers study our hitters and think about the pitches they want to throw and where to put them. You should try it.
July 20th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
That’s the problem with statheads, you get to caught up in WHIP and don’t look at what actually happens in the games. I’ve listed several times where Hamels tendency to give up the long ball, or not be at his best in meaningful games has come back to hurt the Phils. And all anyone can say is, it’s not his fault!!! And blame the offense instead. say what you will about our hitters not taking pitches, Johnson didn’t serve up two gopher balls either.
Fact: With Hamels on the mound we lost to the Mets vs Santana.
Fact: Hamels had one very bad start against the Marlins, and another where the Phils lost the game.
These are our two biggest division rivals right now. I guess I have higher standards for a guy that publically has come out and says he wants the Cy Young than to have him on the mound for three loses against division rivals.
I want to win the division, for us to do that the ace needs to shut down division rivals. And that means keeping the goddamn ball in the park. He hasn’t done that.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
it makes no sense to blame the losses on hamels, he hasnt given up more than 2 runs in his past 5 or 6 starts, the offense was to blame and it usually is when he pitches. Its the same way with santana, they way he pitches and the way cole pitches they should both have 11-12 wins and their teams do nothing for them. Cole has the tendancy to give up some home runs, but there usually solo shots because no one gets on base when he pitches. How can u say its ashame that we have no one better than him? who the hell do you want pitching for you? any pitcher no matter how good gives up runs, what do u expect no hitters everytime ur out there? come on, if we were playing to our potential which were not u wouldnt even be talking bout those 2 homeruns .
July 20th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Watching Phillie fans bicker after losses is priceless. I have to make a note to come to this website after the Phillies lose more often.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
The Phillies need to trade for some speed and OBP on offense. As mentioned earlier, why have Taguchi if you’re NOT going to use him as your defensive replacement or as a pinch hitter. He’s the last resort 99% of the time. Just release the guy already. Golson can at least pinch run and steal some bases late. Then you can use Bruntlett as he is needed.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
BTW, Rollins should have scored on the Victorino double, but he stole the pitch before on a foul ball, and the next pitch he didnt steal. Must have been tired.
Feliz should have been on 3rd….it was a 2 out hit. He was just playing it safe. Dont want to make the last out at 3rd……but he just assumed he couldnt make it. the ball wasnt scorched.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Before everyone starts telling me I know nothing about baseball, let me point out that while the vast majority of this site was driving the Howard hate train, I pointed out that he was still the best run producer in the NL and urged everyone to calm down. And as Howard has heated up even more, I haven’t even recieved a thank you card. You cats are so ungrateful.
Onto Hamels:
Fact: In games in division which Hamels has started the Phils are 3-5.
Fact: Included in that record is a 1-3 mark for the Phils vs the Mets and Marlins when Hamels starts.
Fact: If we look at the Phils record when Hamels starts vs our main playoff rivals at this point, (Mets, Marlins, Cubs, Brewers, St Louis), the Phils record in those games stands at 2-5.
Now we could possibly say this is all the offenses fault. Or perhaps we could actually look at it and say, maybe Hamels hasn’t been good enough vs key rivals for the Phils.
Fact: In those 7 games Hamels has given up 11 home runs and 22 earned runs.
So, we can’t really blame this all on the offense. It’s an ongoing problem for Hamels in big games.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Thanks for the answer gavin, that gamecast makes it hard to hammer a guy if I have not seen the play live. I agree with the Golson point, Tag has gotta go if he cannot help.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
we have to look at it this way, it could be worse, the eagles could have traded for Jason Taylor today like those pathetic fix it now Redskins.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
I always thought the Lito thing could have resolved by sending him to MIA for Taylor. Maybe throw in a 5th rd. pick. Anyway….
July 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
The Eagles wouldn’t get Taylor cause they’d rather pay 2nd round draftpicks cheap money to not produce than actually need to pay someone who could help the team right now.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Reid probably figures McDougal is primed for a big season.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
At least throw the stat out there if you are going to through negative Hamels stats out.
He is 157th in the National League in run support.
His last four starts:
Today: 8 IP, 4 hits, 2 runs, 6 Ks ND
July 13 (Arizona) 7 IP, 11 hits, 2 runs 8 Ks ND
July 8 (stl) 7 IP 3 hits, 2 runs, 8 Ks (I wish we had Joel Piniero instead of Cole!) LOSS
July 3 (Atl) 8.2 innings pitched, 5 hits, 1 run, 7 Ks (win)
In other words: 4 starts, 30.2 innings pitched, 23 hits (!), 7 runs, 29 strikeouts and a measily 1-1 record. In those games Philly scored 6 runs total while he was pitching. Yep, Cole is suck a waste. I wish we had more Kendricks.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
oops: through-throw
July 20th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Checking in from thelast night of my little mni-vacation, and i see they choked up a series to the marlns. nice work, douces. im glad i wasnt here to watch the series because needed a few days away from this team after the all star break.
think theyre tryng to get rid of brett myers really hard. but guys, he pitched into the 7th in high a ball. who fucking cares? that means nothing, and it tells me nothing. get this bum out of here and pacage him with shane victorino and two like B prospects for matt holliday. im all about that. hollidays numbers may be a bit fraudulent but i know hes better at the plate than victorino.
happ better be brought up when its his turn next. ill be fucking pissed off f hes not in the second half rotation.
im out ill deal with this later
July 20th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Scot, one of those games alone he let up 7 runs against the Marlins. So in 6 games he let up 15 runs. Pitchers are allowed to implode sometimes. He has one of the lowest ERA’s and WHIP’s in the bigs. He has one the k/bb rates. He is also up there in k’s too. He is ridiculously good. He is in the top 3 best left handed pitchers in the game today. Only Santana and Sabathia are better, and honestly he’s having a better season than both of them. Hamels should be like 14-4 right now, but his lack of run support has really killed him. What do you want from him, to go out there and throw perfect games against division rivals? Sabathia totally blew in April, and he’s still considered one of the best pitchers in the bigs. I can’t say anything bad about that guy. Not only that, but his ERA is ridiculously low for pitching in a little league park, and his ERA is lower at home than on the road. You shouldn’t be allowed to post here anymore because you are fucking retarded.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Geoff, I’d love for you to come on here and read what Scot is saying about Hamels. You’d get a real laugh out of it.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Oh here you go.
Home ERA 2.79
Away ERA 3.72
That’s nice he pitches so great at home in that tiny ballpark.
• Ranks 1st in NL in IP (150.0)
• Ranks 3rd in NL in SO (132)
• Ranks 7th in NL in ERA (3.06)
• Ranks 2nd in NL in WHIP (1.01)
• Ranks 2nd in NL in CG (2)
Both of his complete games were shut outs against 2 good offenses, the Braves and Reds.
His ERA+ is 142 which I’m sure is one of the best in majors. Before you start your ridiculous rants you should look up the stats.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Another thing you’d like to see, Scot. How many losses/ND Hamels got where he pitched a great game.
8 innings 1 ER (L)
7 innings 0 ER 11 k (ND)
8 innings 2 ER 13 ks (ND)
7 innings 3 ER (L)
7 innings 2 ER 8 ks (L)
7 innings 2 ER 8 ks (ND)
8 innings 2 ER (ND)
July 20th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Phil, all those stats are nice. But at the end of the day the Phils are 2-5 when he starts against our main playoff rivals.
I’m not saying trade him or demote him. I can barely think of a half dozen pitchers in MLB that I’d want over him, especially at his contract. I’m just pointing out facts about his performance against main playoff rivals.
You would think this is Hamels Nation, not Phillies Nation. You point out facts and that makes you a retard. Sorry, fanboy. But, facts are facts.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Si-tu-a-tion-al HITTING.
Brett Myers is a piece of trash on and off the field - get him off my team, and do ANYTHING it takes to get Matt Holliday here.
Get - it - done.
I’m tired of this team.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Sounds a lot like Santana 8-7, 3.10 ERA 130 INNS. 166 SO “NO RUN SUPPORT!!!” But I do not want to get rid of him!!
July 20th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Phil, in that list you put up, look at the losses, and look at Hamels HR’s.
Dude needs to a better job of keeping the ball in the ballpark. It’s simple. A solo HR still counts as a run. You can’t do that in close games, and Hamels does it often in close games. To let the team tie, or to let the team ahead. The longball has killed him in those games.
Keep. The. Ball. In. The. Park.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
reading comprehension, mets fan.
i never said i want of the team. just pointing out the simple truths of his starts vs playoff rivals.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_phantom_five/
Here’s an article I want you all to read, or Tim maybe you can make a summary of it for the nation.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Scot, you are pathetic. Blame Hamels for our losses when obviously it’s the offenses. So, you expect him to pitch a complete game shut out against division rivals hoping our offense scores 1 run for him? That’s not how the game works. I bet you there are Mets fans laughing at you right now.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Phil, if you aren’t discourged by the habit of seeing hamels give up go ahead or tying homeruns several times throughout the season, then you are just a delusional fanboy. I don’t place the blame fully on Hamels or the offense. But I’m sure as hell not gonna lay back and enjoy Hamels giving up these homeruns, and say he’s blameless like you. He made more mistakes today than Johnson. This just in. It’s okay to say Hamels makes mistakes. He’s a grown man. He’ll probably take it better than you’re taking it right now.
Believe me, if Mets fans are laughing, they were laughing more when the Mets put 4 past Hamels in the one start Hamels faced them this season.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Scot, I am not sure if you really are a Phillies fan. You have a young ACE, that came up in your system and is one of the BEST pitchers in baseball! Yet, you want to get rid of him and get back who? The yankees have a player called a-rod. He happens to be one of the best or the best player in the game. His numbers in post season and a lot in the clutch are terrible. But he helps put the yankees in the post season every year he is there. And I do not see the tTRUE yankee fans bashing him, or wanting to trade him. So are you truly a Phillies fan?
July 20th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Johnson gave up tons of mistakes. The Phillies offense just couldn’t capitalize on them because they’re pathetic. So, if Hamels gave up 3 runs a game on 8 hits but no home runs would that make him better? The point is W/L is a team stat, and Hamels gets no run support. You are probably a troll Muts fan in disguise.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Scot, it is time for u to go. I think the pirates are looking for fans. Go get an Xavier Nady jersey and eat a Rothlies-burger. We will stick with Cole and hope they make a deal to make the team BETTER. They are very good, they can be better GO PHILS!!!!!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
And this is coming from a guy whos dogs hide during Phillies, Flyer Eagle and Gator games due to the extreme changes in moods. If I am staying positive, Scot u can stay positive.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I will give Scot credit for one thing, he very accurately predicted the outcome of today’s game.
I still blame the offense. When you score two runs, you can’t really expect to win ballgames. And Burrell isn’t the only one to blame here, but when you have a chance to blow the game open (or at least score a run from third with a little fly ball!) you do it. Charlie said it best: the situational hitting has been atrocious. It’s been bad since the middle of June.
Besides Hamels, though, Scot wouldn’t you also agree that the offense has been pathetic today? If you’re going to blame Hamels for the solo HRs, don’t you have to harp on Pat for popping out in the first (runners on the corners and ONE out?) or for Rollins not going hard on Vic’s double (10th I think?) Or for Charlie continuing to a) pull Pat in close games AND b) hitting Carlos Ruiz? I mean when was the last time a playoff team had a regular position player hitting at or below .200?
I can see being a bit disgruntled with Hamels versus good teams. But isn’t that concern (Him going 8 innings and giving up 2 or 3 runs) way far down on the list of concerns with this team?
July 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Scot is too dumb to realize it’s the offenses fault. This is why the Padres are in last place.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
In order:
1. Rollins
2. Kendrick/Myers
3. Clay Condrey is on the roster
4. Pinch-running for Pat Burrell in a game closer than 4 runs. I really hope someday Charlie gets heat for this. This is the single thing that bothers me most. It is so maddening that I nearly can’t watch. The idea that Burrell’s defense (he threw another runner out yesterday!) can’t get the job done adequately is a joke. Howard is more of a liability in the field and they are both equally dangerous at the plate. There is ABSOLUTELY NO LOGIC — NONE! — that Chollie can show me to make me understand. I got to stop thinking about this before I explode. Suffice to say, he will probably be lifted in this Mets series only to have his spot in the order come up while Billy Wagner is pitching.
5. Carlos Ruiz
6. Carlos Ruiz
July 20th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
7. Ryan Howard:
“A DH with a glove”
-Keith Law.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Ryan Howard isn’t a problem, Carlos Ruiz is the least of our concerns. It’s our 8 hole hitter who is great behind the plate and great withour pitchers. You don’t see V-Tek getting benched or DFAd for a reason.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Ya, 10 million reasons. Even Boston won’t eat that salary. Plus they don’t have a viable prospect to replace him, or even an adequate back-up. Carlos Ruiz doesn’t have nearly the track record that Varitek does. Also, I wasn’t saying Howard is a problem per-say, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy in Charlie benching Pat while keeping Howard in the field late in games. He is much worse than Pat could ever be in the field.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Oh, I agree with that. I wouldn’t bench either of them.
Ruiz leads all NL catchers in ERA for his pitchers. Noone would say anything about Ruiz straddling the Mendoza line if the guys in front of him did their job.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Carlos Ruiz’s OPS+ is 50. Do you realize how bad that is? By comparison, Varitek is having by far the worst year in his 12-year career (101 OPS+ avg.) and yet his is still 69 this year, while topping 100 6 times. Carlos Ruiz, by comparison hasn’t topped 90 ONCE.
If you really want to pretend he’s not a problem, fine. I look at it another way: he is the single worst hitter in the league who plays everyday (regular). I mean he is Jose Vidro bad.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I agree with you, if he was at any other position I’d call for his head, but HE MAKES OUR MEDIOCRE PITCHING STAFF SO MUCH BETTER!
July 20th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Kyle, all very good points. For me, there may not be a much better solution at catcher out there. The defensive replacement, especially with a backup shortstop who cannot hit, drives me nuts. Condrey and his .300 opp ba kills whether we notice it or not. Myers needs to and can step it up.
As far as eaton, i know the phils will not eat his salary and cut ties. He has no use in the bullpen unless he unlearns the 89 mph straightpitch. I remember being at a Phils-Tigers spring training game in lakeland this year. Eaton got shelled, and I booed him. Some half heart phils fan said to me “That is obnoxious, its spring training”. My only response to her (after quite a few) was whats obnoxious is that we are paying him 7.5 mill a year to stink. He pitched well at times, but seems to let down mentally after the phils score. Maybe give him some beers and let him relax. Wild thing claims its something with his fingers.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Per ESPN (not sure if it’s accurate), but Russell Martin 3.63 and Ramon Castro (3.68) are right in line with Carlos (3.68), who has one of the worst CS percentage (45 stolen bases, 13 CS) in baseball.
Are you really saying Curt Schilling was made better by his catcher? I mean was he really better with Boston than with Arizona or even Philly because Varitek was his catcher? It’s sort of the chicken and the egg argument.
Is Cole Hamels really better because he throws to Ruiz? Is Jamie Moyer (166-105 last 11 seasons) really a better pitcher because of Ruiz? Or are they just GOOD PITCHERS PERIOD? I actually find it an interesting argument, but Ruiz doesn’t, to me, have enough of a track record to put any faith into.
For Pete’s sake, his CERA last year was 4.62. I mean it really holds no water to me. He is so bad at the plate something has to give.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Actually, look at yesterday’s game with Kendrick. Look at Hamels game last weekend against the D-Backs. He had 11 hits against him against one of the worst offenses in the NL. Yes, Ruiz helps our Hamels and Kendrick. Moyer probably not because Moyer probably calls his own game. All of our pitchers request Ruiz to start. Let me find the interview I read about it. I read it a couple of months ago. Oh yeah, we have a better record with Ruiz starting for a reason.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Russel Martin also has a much better pitching staff to work with than Ruiz.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
I don’t know how much of the game calling comes from Ruiz. It could be the Pitching Coach, Catcher & Pitcher. If the catcher calls a pitch half the time he Pitcher will call it off unless he agrees with the catcher. How much responsibility do you think Ruiz has? If Utley got behind the plate for Cole I think Hamels will still be the Pitcher he is.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Nah Metsfan, I rarely see Ruiz look over at the bench, and I rarely see his pitchers shake him off.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
I am sure all the opposing pitchers request Carlos’ services too. I am sorry, but we will just have to agree to disagree here. I am sure all his teammates like him fine and dandy, but his offense is bad enough for me as a fan that I want him outta there. He’s an automatic out. (Sometimes TWO).
As for other items I feel uneasy about this upcoming series. Facing Perez-Santana-Maine, who dominated us in Philly doesn’t really seem all that good for our chances at 2-of-3 to remain in first.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
If everyone hitting in front of him were doing their job would you complain about Ruiz?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
If Marson can come up and hit .400 but make all of our pitchers ERA go up 1.00 would you still want Marson behind the plate? You don’t think of these things, do you?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
I can tell you I have confidence in Santana but, Maine has been horrible is least few starts. And if Perez walks a batter it gets in his head and the game is over. So, I think you have a good chance in the series.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Of course I don’t think of these things, I don’t think! I was trying to be civil and say we should agree to disagree. That’s fine by me. And yes, I would still have a problem if Jenkins were hitting. He must be who you’re talking about because Feliz has been Pedro Feliz, Burrell’s been great, Howard, etc…down to Rollins, who has been disappointing.
An OPS+ of 100 is an AVERAGE MLB hitter. Which means Ruiz is ONE HALF a major league player. And if you are trying to win you simply cannot carry a player that bad on one side of the ball. That’s my opinion. If he hits 200 and the Phils win, I will buy you a beer. How’s that?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
And Metsfan have you seen Maine against the Phils? He’s OWNED them.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/jamie_moyer_change_up
July 20th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Have you seen Maine pitch recently? His last 10 starts: 3-3 Record, 5.07 era, 55.0 IP, 50 Hits, 31 ER, 25 BB. Last start vs. Phillies: 5.2 IP, 3 ER, (ND)
July 20th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
What the hell is up with this kind of quote? It sounds too much like Jose Reyes and not enough like Jimmy Rollins. From the Inquirer:
“”"”Shortstop Jimmy Rollins, who has struggled to match last year’s MVP season, was unfazed by Manuel’s criticism.
“He’s pretty much right, but we’ll get out of it,” Rollins said. “We don’t get concerned until late. Coaches do that now. We go play.”"”"”
We don’t get concerned? Really? You’re not concerned that you didn’t run out a possible game-winning double?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
The only thing he has been owning is the bench by the the 6th inning!
July 20th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
I believe that is what the Mets said last year before they choked!
July 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Liked that onion link, Phil
July 20th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
From one Met fan to another:
Q: Why is it so hot at Phillies games?
A: Because there’s not a fan in the place
July 21st, 2008 at 12:08 am
The 2008 Phillies are again just an average team, being just 7 games over .500. They are having trouble beating teams with winning records, such as the Marlins, St. Louis, and every AL team they face. They do real well against the Braves which accounts for their winning record, otherwise they’d be neck and neck with the Mets. At this point in the season, both teams would be trailing the surprising Marlins. They are not a superior home team, nor a great road team. They had two 20 run games this season but otherwise, would be 7th or 8th in runs scored. They’re bullpen has over achieved so far this year, but that will catch up to guys like Brad Lidge, Ryan Madson and Chad Durbin as the season progresses. Their starting pitching, with the exception of Cole Hamels is weak. Moyer will fatigue as the season progresses (just like last year), Myers is 3-9 with an ERA of about 5.50, Kendrick’s ERA is 5.05 (they seem to score a lot of runs when he pitches or he’s be 3-6 instead of 6-3), and Eaton is going to once again compete for the highest ERA in baseball.
Their hitters begin and end with two guys, Utley and Rollins. Everyone else, including Howard, is very much imperfect. Howard’s been figured out this year and his numbers will decline year by year with the exception of the homers. He’s going to break his own record for strikeouts this year and that may come at the beginning of September.
Burrell is another over hyped guy who’s basically a .250 streaky hitter. He started out great this year but has been hitting about .200 for the last 6 weeks. Felix and Ruiz are double play machines and Jenkins was a horrific signing.
July 21st, 2008 at 12:15 am
Wow Dory, that was the most unintelligent thought I’ve read on this site yet. You just said Rollins and Utley are our best hitters. You obviously don’t follow the Phillies too much. Howard is carrying this team right now.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:06 am
Constructive criticism is hard to swallow eh Phil? Dory’s post had more insight and thought put into it than 99% of the dribble that gets posted here.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:30 am
Yeah, it had thought and insight, but none of it was correct.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:33 am
anyone heard anything lately about the Matt Holliday rumors? The guy isn’t a pitcher, but I’ve heard some things from Ken Rosenthal about the Rockies sending the Phillies Brian Fuentes and Matt Holliday, and the Phillies sending the Rox Victorino, Marson, Carrasco, and Happ. I’ve heard talks have cooled, but just wondering about everyone’s thoughts on this.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:35 am
We need a hitter, our rotation is good enough. It’s not going to get any better this season.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:40 am
How come we don’t score runs with Cole Hamels pitches??
July 21st, 2008 at 8:42 am
when* Cole Hamels pitches.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:44 am
Don M, read this thread. You may find it hilarious. Someone actually blames Hamels for all of his 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 losses.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am
We should have won that game. I hate how everytime there are guys on base/ 2 outs, we feel the need to swing for the fences and not slap a single. Too many guys try to be heroes on this god damn team and need to play some team baseball. Small ball. Ryan Howard is our team right now, so whoever is saying he needs to step up should probably watch a game and look at some stats. Here I’ll make it easy for you:
Ryan Howard (July):
.333 BA 9 HR 19 RBI .397 OBP .758 SLG 1.155 OPS
July 21st, 2008 at 10:12 am
Yeah TJ, but it’s his fault and Hamels fault we lost the game according to some.