Phillies Nation

105 Responses to “Hewitt Signs With Phillies”

1. NJ Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:05 pm

   Great, get him and going. There’s been a real escalation in the past couple of years of team fast-tracking their prospect and I’m all for development and further seasoning but does anyone get the feeling the Phils are quite laxed with the speed of the development of particularly the positional prospects?

   Don’t get me wrong here I’m a fan of what the team are doing at A/AA level but it’s so hard to get an honest assessment of our prospect pool compared to other teams.

2. Geoff Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pm

   Yes they are. Other teams get people up to the bigs, i mean the good prospects, at 21,22,23. cole hamels and kyle kendrick were 22/23 when they came up. hamels mightve been 21. However, a lot of these other guys are still down there. JA Happ is like 26.

   Carrasco will be ready by next year unless they bring him up now, hes 21.

   but where are all the position players? pat burrell was the first over all pick so he was ready.

   chase utley was held back for too long, jimmy rollins was very young when he came up.

   but, ryan howard is 28/29 now! they wasted YEARS on him sittin gbehind jim thome. tahts why hes contract situation is out of control. he wasnts to get paid now because they took years off of his major league career.

3. Geoff Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm

   marson is 21/22. golson is 20, cardenas will be ready when hes 20.

   those top prospects can always get up at the right time unless they are blocked.

   but the “rest” of the guys arent getting up here. backups, relievers, etc. utility/depth players.

   the farm system has produced vvery well for us. however, it lacks the depth you need to make big trades and replace people with seamless ease if they walk as an FA.

4. Phil Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm

   Utley and Howard were held back by Thome and Polanco. I mean, Thome and Polonco at the time they were on the Phillies were one of the best 1B and 2B combo in the game. That’s the only reason they were held back. Howard was also held back because he was Pedro Cerano. I’d leave Marson down there until 2009 he’s young. Golson also needs to get out of this Pedro Cerano thing he’s got going on. Carrasco should be up next year if not this year. Cardeans will be ready by 2010 in which case we probably won’t have Howard anymore so you can shift Utley to 1B or you can put him in the outfield. I’m starting to consider stripping this team right now while you can. Keep Utley, Hamels, Durbin, Romero, Madson, Lidge, Victorino, Werth, Feliz(just because he’s already signed and we have no 3B prospects), Kendrick, and Coste and let go of everyone else. Keep Moyer if he wants to continue to pitch and make him your #5 guy. Next season bring Cardeans up to play 2B and put Utley on 1st. Bring up Donald to play SS. Marson is the everyday catcher with Coste as a back up/pinch hitter. Outfielders will be Golson in CF, Vic in RF, and Werth in LF. Starting rotation will be Hamels, Carrasco, Kendrick, Happ, and Bestrado. If Moyer is still around then figure out what you can do with him. Moyer might be a good LOOGY and Romero could be your set up man. You also have Outman to pitch in the pen too. You can trade Burrell, Rollins, and Howard right now and net a lot for them. You can probably rape the Dodgers or Orioles of their farm systems for Rollins, maybe even get a stellar 3B prospect that is MLB ready for next year. Send Howard out to SF, for Lincecum or just trade Howard anywhere for their farm. Burrell could probably net you an A prospect too right now. That could be a team ready to win for 2011. Any thoughts?

5. Tim Malcolm Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

   Howard for Lincecum will never, ever, ever, ever happen.

6. Phil Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm

   I don’t know Tim. They have a lot of pitching and a lot of pitching prospects with a horrid offense. They are looking to replace a big bat now that Bonds is gone.

7. Zack Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm

   I have never read anything so ridiculous as that comment (or at least the end of it)……the only thing that remotely made sense was trading Burrell, and only if we cant afford to bring him back. Trading Howard to SF for Lincecum??……that would be like the Reds offering Adam Dunn for Cole Hamels. There is no way that the Giants would even slightly consider that deal. I know JRoll isn’t having the best year, but people need to remember he is just one year removed from an MVP season, and I honestly think that his ankle is still bothering him, but I am hoping he will come back after the All-Star Break 100% and back to form. Trading Rollins is ludicrous, for the attitude he brings to the clubhouse every day, his speed, and the power he brings from the SS position. I am still holding out hope that he gets back to form by late July and primed for a WS run.

8. Phil Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:55 pm

   Whynot unload this team? They aren’t a contending team. J-Roll and Howard can bring you in a lot of farm pieces or plug in some pieces. J-Roll is also 30 and getting old. Whynot try something new? By the time this team could possibly be ready to compete again Rollins will be getting older. So will Utley, but he’ll be at 1B and I could imagine him trying to bulk up because he wouldn’t need the same range as a 1B which would make him hit the long ball more. This team can’t compete with the AL, no NL teams can. They are not ready for the WS. Whynot get a team together that is?

9. Mike T. Says:
   July 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

   Keep Hamels, Kendrick, Lidge, Romero, Rollins and Utley — trade everyone else.

10. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Well, hold on now. If someone offers you the farm for rollins you take it. rollins is 29/30 so hes in his prime. but, youre telling me, if someone comes along and offers you 4 A prospects, youd say no? (A) meaning young mlb ready top flight young talent.

    i thin kyou gotta take that. i mean if someone comes and TOTALLY blows you away with an offer

11. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    The Dodgers and O’s have the prospects to get it done, and they need a SS really bad.

12. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    Also, I have to add that Jimmy Rollins is my favorite player on the team and has been since like 02 and I still say trade him. He’s getting up there in age now and this isn’t a contending team. Mike T. Feliz has no trade value and he’s a great defensive 3B. Leave him there until we get a legit 3B. You have to KEep Werth, maybe not Vic but definitely Werth. That guy has so much ridiculous amounts of potential.

13. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Nope, I’m trading anyone not listed above for pitching.

    If the D-backs can win a World Series with Tony Womack, Luis Gonzalez, Craig Counsel, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling and a young Brandon Webb — we can do it with Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pitcher X and a young Kyle Kendrick.

14. Brook Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    The Dodgers and the O’s will be rebuilding their teams with prospects. They wont go for a Rollins. The Hewitt draft pick was a stupid one in my estimation. They should have gone for a college OF. Someone who is proven. I hated Ed Wade with a passion and when he was strangled last week I jumped for joy. However the one thing he has done better then Gilick is drafting. Gilick is an all or nothing guy. Case in point Greg Golson. They are gambling way too much on the draft. Wade at least got us Rollins (2nd Round), Utley (1st Rd), Howard (5th Rd), Hamels (1st Rd). His only big bust for the Phillies was Gavin Floyd.

15. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    A young Brandon Webb>>>>>>>>Kyle Kendrick.

16. Todd Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    you guys all think the phils should dump everyone now for prospects? What’s wrong with you? How is this not a contending team, because they’ve hit a slump and fallen back to earth? Colorado made the series last year and they were terrible most of the season. The Phils are a contending team going through a tough spot.

17. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    I kind of agree with the semi-blow up Idea.

    I like pat burrell, but hes going to make 16mm per year as a DH in the AL and the phillies wont touch that. theyll let him walk and take the first round pick.

    you cant do it during the season though. no owner who cares about ticket sales will blow him team up while theyre in or anywhere near first place.

    they need to make one last hurrah with this group. try to get the coveted number two guy and make your playoff run. after that. howard goes. myers should alreayd be gone. keep the guy smike T laid out. maybe even keep coste around. lou marson will be your other catcher next year.

    in the offseason though? howard – gone for someones farm
    rollins – if someone offers the farm…gone
    utley – untouchable
    hamels, kendrick, romero, lidge – untouchable
    victorino – gone
    ruiz – gone
    taguichi, jenkins – should be gone yesterday
    feliz – actually playing ok but its time for a 3B of the future – gone
    seanez, gordon, moyer – retire
    madson – gone
    condrey – gone
    bruntlett – gone
    eaton – gone
    dobbs – guess he can stay, hes a good pinch hitter. but not untouchable
    durbin – stays
    werth – probably stays

    bring up the mlb-ready talent and plus the gaps with QUALITY free agents. theres a LOT of garbage on this team that has no chance of beating their AL coutnerparts. they HAVE to go in the offseason.

    if you cant win the WS this year, and even if you do, you have to make those move.

    when i say gone, i mean FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.
    exceptions: ruiz, jenkins, taguchi (DFA or cut) get that TRASH out of here

18. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Hewitt has a very high ceiling. Gillick likes high ceiling guys. I mean, didn’t he draft A-Rod?

19. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    PS, brandon webb throws much harder than kendrick.

20. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    colorado got swept because they were about one tenth as good as the red sox.

    the phillies are not a contender. they are a fraud.even if they win their disvision, they are still a fraud. they have way too many holes that were exposed by ALL of the AL teams they played.

21. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    I wouldn’t say get rid of Victorino unless it’s for the right price. He’s still young. I’d keep Feliz around until we have that 3B of the future. I totally forgot Dobbs in my list. I’d also keep Madson unless it’s for the right price. Moyer said he wants to continue to pitch. If he does resign him for cheap. He’ll stick around and we want him to help these young guys coming up. My 2009 Phillies would be:

    C- Marson
    1B- Utley
    2B- Cardeans
    SS- Donald
    3B- Feliz
    RF- Victorino
    CF- Golson
    LF- Werth

    S1- Hamels
    S2- Carrasco
    S3- Kendrick
    S4- Bastrado
    S5- Happ

    C- Lidge
    Long relief- Madson
    Set up- Romero
    Swing man- Durbin
    LOOGY- Moyer
    Mop up- Outman

    Bench
    Bohn
    Snelling
    Harman
    Coste
    Dobbs

22. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    I didn’t say Kendrick is better than a young (2004) Brandon Webb.

    But for you, Phil:

    2004 Webb
    7-16 3.59ERA 164K’S 119BB’S

    2007-08 Kendrick
    17-7 4.17ERA 88K’S 52BB’S

    Now, Kendrick isn’t even in the same class as Webb — but I’m saying that if we can get another 1 or 2 pitcher, Kendrick will do just fine as a 4 or 5.

23. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Potential line up for that team would be

    1. Victorino(make him work on patience in the off season)
    2. Cardeans
    3. Marson
    4. Utley
    5. Werth
    6. Golson
    7. Feliz
    8. Donald
    9. Pitcher

24. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Hm, you make a good argument, although wins don’t phase me. That’s a team stat.

25. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Yeah it is. I like the look-a-head at a future team without overpaid trash. Add some nice arms we can get with a trade or two, and that team doesn’t sound so bad a couple years down the road.

26. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    I agree Mike T. I had trouble making that line up because of all of the talent you have there. I wouldn’t blow up the farm. We have the most underrated farm right now. We have a super star in Utley. We have a cy young pitcher in Hamels. We have a lights out closer in Lidge. That bullpen can still be good. We have a good starting rotation potential. I’m excited for our future if we don’t blow this farm up. We’re not winning the world series this year, it’s just not happening.

27. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    No, we’re not even going to make the playoffs. But, as usual, it will be an exciting run. It sucks for others who actually thought we had a chance this year — I tried my best to let everyone know what kind of team we had, but they didn’t want to hear it. I think it has finally set in.

28. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Yeah I agree. There is WAY too much OLD ASS OVERPAID GARBAGE on this team. those variations of 2009-10 lineups look good. thats a world series potential team for years to come. youve got something there.

    this is known as moneyball. its what billy beane does. if you know youre a fraud then blow the team up and rebuild. he went to the ALCS in 2006 and then knew that was it, he blew the team up and theyre about a year away from being back there now.

    you dont hold onto old overpaid junk for too long. thats a waste of money ESPECIALLY for a team so worried about its self imposed salary cap.

    you pick out like 5 guys to lock up long term and then everyone else goes. hamels kendrick lidge come to mind. utley and rollins are already locked up. rollins and howard can go for elite prospects.

    the more i look at this SP market. the more i think, F it. just bring up someone from within.

    youre going to give up your farm for some of that garbage thats out there? erik bedard? aj burnett? those guys are gutless jerks who are overrated.

29. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    They arent good enough to win the world series, which is what i said all year. if you cant get them to that level by the day after the trade deadline then you should opt to blow the team up instead and rebuild for a championship run that is well thought out and constructed for 2010.

    i thought this team was better than it was yes. but if they cant rise to the minimal level of division champions then tahts all the more disgraceful

    even this old overpaid junk heap team should be able to make the playoffs at least.

    the rest of the nl isnt much better.

    gat gillick, with the noted exceptions weve praised him for, gets C or a D for his time here as of now.

30. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    This team could make it to the WS potentially, but we’re not winning the WS. We’ll get swept like the Rox. Blow this team up.

31. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    its either go for it all now, spend red sox or yankeed money and risk being bad for a few years with the reward of a deeper playoff run

    OR

    be smart, play money ball and build a championship team for a few years down th eline.

    yes i realize this is different than my opninion a few weeks ago.

    however. the team showed it couldnt beat legitimate competition. therefore, if you cant make a genuis move at the deadline then start blowing the team up.

    the problem is, theyll be in the race at the deadline so youll have to wait until the offseason to blow it up.

32. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Geoff, that’s true about having to do it in the offseason. They won’t make any other moves until they’re officially out of it – even though we all know they have no chance.

33. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Thats what pisses me off even more about the phillies and the eagles (i actually revoked my support PERMANENTLY for the eagles because of the sins they have committed, but i also hate the nfl in general its morally bankrupt)

    they stay in limbo between contending and rebuilding. the flyers sucked for one year and they rebuilt their team and make a final 4 run and now are ready to go a step farther AND are set for years to come! in ONE YEAR!

    the phillies get these old piles of crap liek jenkins who ionly serve to block young prospects from coming up now and playing and developing. make a choice. go for it and and take your salary cap off or blow it up and rebuild

34. CZ Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    I will join all of you in expressing optimism in the potential of the current farm system but can you honestly, and with a straight face, propose a 2009 lineup with 8 rookies involved?? Are you delirious? I would hope that if the Phillies are ‘unloading’ all of this proven veteran talent they will be getting something in return. Where do those guys play? Not even the Rays have had so many rookies (and when they approached that number they were awful). Doesn’t this win later attitude waste the rest of Utley’s (limited) prime?

    Believe me I want to win as much as anyone and it hurts to see the losses pile up lately but I think this is a string of serious overreactions. There are obviously some changes that need to be made but let’s see what the trade deadline brings and reevaluate once the dust settles. As much as we seem to think we can predict the future we can not. I’m glad for that because it wouldn’t be as much fun of a ride if I knew what was coming.

35. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    like, say they get aj burnett or bedard for some good prospects they cant afford to lose. so what? they still need to plug the holes in their offense that cause them to get shut down by even average pitching.

36. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Apparently they’re crying up in Red Sox nation too. They want to blow that team up and think that they suck. There are trade Ellsbury and Manny talks going on right now.

37. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Geoff, I think one thing they should do to solve that problem is sign Bonds to his league minimum contract. I know he’s king douche bag of baseball, but he’s still going to get the job done against any pitcher unlike the rest of this line up.

38. ped Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    You all are really really turning me off with all the negative talk.

    The phils are still a contender!

    Jimmy and Ryan will come around and I’m sure we’ll get a good pitcher by the deadline. I have no doubt we’ll be in the NLCS against the cubs. We’ve waited the last 4 or 5 years for our young studs to peak and now that they are almost there, you want to trade them?!

    Thank God none of you are GMs.

    Remember we have plenty of season left.

39. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Ped the point we are all trying to make is that this team’s offense is extremely overrated, and the starting rotation is trash. Some of these AL teams with elite rotations have #3’s as good as Hamels. We have 3 super stars and none of them are performing like super stars, and Utley is the only one I trust will come out of his slump and play like a super star. This bullpen is the only redeeming thing about this team which is odd considering how it was the thing holding us back last year.

40. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Yeah but they cant beat the angels or the red sox or the rangers or the athletics or any of those decent to good al teams in a series.

    some rookie green unproven untested pitcher totally shut them down the other day. josh beckett will no hit this team. john lackey would shut this team out

41. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    maybe then can make a decent run with another number 2 SP. but theres so much old garbage on this team.

42. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    thats so true. “some of these AL teams have 3’s that are as good as hamels”

    and thats why the phillies are a fraud

43. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Ped, go take a nap with the rest of the clueless, overly-optimistic fans.

44. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Ill bet those are the same people that think theres a difference between barrack obama and john mccain

45. Amanda Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    seriously if you really think the phillies are a fraud then go watch another team, its JUNE people, yes they’ve been playing bad, and i do agree that they have holes, but so does every other team, no team is going to win every series and every game, 2 weeks ago people were all saying the phillies were the best, now they go through a rough stretch & everyone turns on them?

46. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Actually, no this is my team, I am going to watch them all year and on here I will say what is the best way they can win a world series and what moves will make that happen

47. Amanda Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    actually its july today but u get my point theres 81 games left to play, lets not give up on a season thats halfway over, even if we were in first place by 10 games right now you never know whats going to happen, so instead of freaking out and calling it a season, lets watch & see what happens. I mean did any one really think the colorado rockies would make the world series? No, but anything can happen, so instead of calling it a season, have a little hope, everyone is wayyyy to negative

48. ped Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    I believe that our poor play in the interleague games was more about our slumping hitters and not our “trash” rotation. Moyer, Kendrick and even Eaton for the most part have been keeping us in games. If our hitters come around, which they will, we will prevail with pitchers that give up 3 or 4 runs.

49. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    All we have thats worth anything really, though i like moyer, is hamels and kenrick in terms of starting pitching on our current roster

50. Brian Michael Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    STAT OF THE DAY – from baseballprospectus.com

    Top 5 Luckiest NL Starters, by LUCK

    Luck, as measured by the number of extra wins, and short losses the pitcher actually got, versus his expected record. LUCK = (W-E(W))+(E(L)-L)

    Player, Team, W, L, E(W), E(L), LUCK

    Brandon Webb, ARI, 12, 4, 7.5, 5.3, 5.8
    Kyle Kendrick, PHI, 7, 3, 4.7, 6.1, 5.4
    Kyle Lohse, SLN, 9, 2, 7.0, 5.0, 5.0
    Manny Parra, MIL, 8, 2, 5.7, 4.5, 4.8
    Ben Sheets, MIL, 9, 1, 7.4, 3.9, 4.5

51. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    And this is from someone who goes to at least 10 games a year. i go a lot. i love being down there and supporting this team.

    i want them to prove me wrong and win it all, but im being realistic here

52. ped Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Hey Mike, you shouldn’t hate on optimism.

53. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    that is so philadelphia though when you think about it. thats really funny, though accurate. were in first palce and we want to blow up the team. hahaha

    we should do it in the offseason

54. CZ Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Geoff, let me start by saying that I respect your obvious passion and depth of knowledge of this baseball team. I respect it but I find myself disagreeing with the majority of the conclusions that this knowledge brings you to. I have been reading these post for the entire season so I know the majority of you have been singing a very similar tune from day one. Therefore, I will not claim that you are all oscillating along with the fickle winds of the Phillies inconsistent play. However, you take this ‘high horse’ approach that paints yourself as the omniscient know-it-all. How could anyone else have an opinion – heaven forbid. There are plenty of people that follow this team just as, if not more religiously than you do. I know it feels good to vent – that is why I throw something after a poorly timed GIDP by Ruiz – but belittling others opinions and making people out to be stupid for having hope and a optimistic opinion is no way to conduct yourself.

55. Don M Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Ped… save your breath. If you show any optimism, they jump down your throat. These dickheads on here think you can trade Ryan Howard and get a ton in return, and then trade Jimmy Rollins.. they are morons. It ain’t worth it.

    With how much crap they talk on the Phillies all-day, everyday, I’m starting to think Maybe they are just closet-Met fans..

56. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Sorry if I personally offended anyone. I didnt say others couldnt have an opinion, obviously. If I want to call you out, I will say your name. So I wouldnt take it too personally because its not meant to be.

57. Mike T. Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Don M. is back, nice.

58. CZ Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Geoff, That was appreciated. I didn’t mean to suggest that you were offending anyone personally (as I don’t think you intend to). I just meant to convey that the frowning on hope and optimism is unfair to those of us who will never lose that. I for one have been following Philly sports all of my life and its that hope for a championship that keeps me coming back every year. I don’t think I could bear it otherwise.

59. Geoff Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Ill be nice to them in the playoffs, if they make it which i think they should, and ill be behind them one hundred percent. until then i will express my concerns.

60. Don M Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    I’ve been reading along today… but once people started the talk about trading Rollins.. and the best way to win a World Series would be to have a starting lineup of Marson, Utley, Cardanes, Donald, Feliz, Golson, Victorino, Werth,

    you know.. If I said that starting lineup wouldn’t win 75 games next year, I’d probably have Mike T, or chris m telling me that I don’t know anything about baseball..

    But anyway, whats poppin Mike T, how’s your day going? You siked for tonight vs. the Braves?

61. Don M Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    everyone has concerns… If anyone tells you that right now this team would win a World Series, they are lying.

    Sometimes the talk on here is fun, when people say why the would or wouldn’t trade for Bedard… or what it might take to get Harden… is it worth selling the already small farm for a shot this year?? But sometimes people do go overboard with sh!t-talking the other Phillies fans on here….

    We all want to win, and if they can find the right puzzle pieces, we could be the 2003 Marlins..

62. ped Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    they just said on WIP, Myers down to triple A

63. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    That team wouldn’t win 75 games next year, but they’d win 100 in 2011.

64. Mike Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Wow, overwhelming negativity here. I’m suprised. The Phillies are a very good team who hit an offensive down turn at the same time we faced some buzz-saw pitching. Coincidence? Perhaps, but when you have this offense in normal mode they are one powerful team. Have you looked at team comparisons? They are in the tops of the league in several categories. Geeze people, give them a chance to get things on the right track. FGS, we are still in 1st place and we have just come through one horrible stretch of Phillies baseball! For me personally, I have been extremely disappointed in Jimmie’s play this year (and I am a huge J Roll fan!) It seems to me that he has a sense of entitlement after earning last years MVP. He is not hustling at all IMHO. When he leads, this teams responds. Jenkins, Taguchi and Ruiz…..a BIG :^(

    I will be at the Mets game on Friday……my 15th regular season game this year. Section 144 this time. I’ll try something different.

    Go Phillies!

65. Keith Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Is there anyone here who ever heard about the 83-78 cardinals of 2006 winning the World Series with only one Ace pitcher – Chris Carpenter and a bunch of 4s and 5s in Jason Marquis, Jeff Suppan, Anthony Reyes with only three offensive options in Albert Pujols, Chris Duncan and Scott Rolen. the rest of the team was david eckstein(some how was amazing in Playoffs), Juan Encarnacion, Scott Spiezio, Aaron Miles, and the decling Jim Edmonds.
    That year they beat the best team in baseball the Tigers who had one number one in Verlander and 3 2s in Rogers, Bonderman and Nate Robertson for the year. That should never have happened but our team is better then that Cardinal team.

    I agree that we have good pieces in the minors but some are not ready Cardenas hasnt even played above single A yet, Golson, donald, and marson are only at AA.

    Gillick has been a pretty good GM, some of the moves he has made havent worked out, but look at the bullpen he has assembled. Also you cant grade his drafts yet cuz well he has only had 2 frickin drafts.

    Also, it doesnt matter what your record is going into the playoffs as long as you get there. Look at the Mariners from 2001 116 wins they didnt even make it to the world series. The Phils have been a second half team the last couple of years and I think they will keep that up and I would rather have them slump now then in September or hopefully October.

66. Phil Says:
    July 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    I do agree with that. It’s better to slump in June than it is to slump in April like they usually do or September like the Mets of last year.

67. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Phil… not to beat a a dead horse, but if that team would win 100 games in 2011. How come none of them are “top-prospects”.. none of them are coveted by any other teams in major league baseball?

    Carrasco was our top prospect going into this season, and I think he was something like 53rd overall in baseball… Cardenas is our second highest prospect and he plays A-ball i think..

    Hopefully this future crop of players is good, but the fact that people were calling for us to blow up a first-place team, who won the NL East last year… that just doesn’t make any sense.

    I hope to god you are right, and that lineup wins us 5 World Series titles.. but the things with prospects is that you just never know. Afterall, Brett Myers was supposed to be good..

68. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am

    I can guarantee you right now that Cardeans and Marson are the real deal. If Golson can learn how to hit a breaking ball he will be the real deal too. Donald has a lot of potential, but I’m unsure about him. Carrasco is also the real deal. He’s 21 and showing signs of being ridiculously good. Yes, Cardeans is in A ball, but he’ll be ready to play in 2010. He’ll be promoted to AA this year, and if he’s not he’ll be in AA next year and will be one of the best players in AA. Right now they’re trying to teach him how to hit home runs because they want another Chase Utley. That’s who this guy is being compared to though, so I have very high hope for Cardeanas, and I’d rather have him on 2B and Utley on 1B than an overpaid baby on 1B that strikes out every time he’s at bat.

69. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:21 am

    I hope your right.. they have always projected Cardenas as a RF though. I was saying about two months ago how Id love to have him play 2nd, move Utley to first, and then Chase can concentrate that much more on hitting…he can be the leader on this team for another 10 years!

    Carrasco has always been projected as a #3, with PLUS potential… recently he’s been getting roughed-up in AA ball, so maybe he just needs a new challenge to make him focus more? If he pans out, it would great to have him following Hamels in the rotation!

    We know Marson can hit.. does anyone know if he is any good defensively?

70. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Marson throws out 45% of base stealers and calls a great game. Marson is the next Joe Mauer. Cardeanas can come play RF for us right now then. An outfield of Golson, Cardeanas, and Werth/victorino could be very good. Does Cardeanas have the arm to play RF though? Carrasco has the potential to be a great #3 or a good #2. Personally I’d like to see someone that is a better #1 than Hamels and have Hamels as a #2 guy. There are teams that have #3s as good as Hamels, so that says a lot about our pitching staff.

71. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Hamels is a legit #1… Peavy, Webb, Santana, Sheets, there are really only a couple of guys in the NL that are better then Hamels.. but he’s still young and stull learning how to pitch.

    I would gladly take the second coming of Joe Mauer over GIDP as the catcher..

    I really don’t know what kind of arm Card. has… but if it was a rag, they would project him as a LF or 1b, not as a RF…. so I’m guessing its probably pretty strong, but his fielding reaction time isn’t great… and since 2b have more time to knock a ball down and still get the runner, thats why he plays 2b ??

    BUT.. if they project him as an OF, why isn’t he playing there now??

72. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Meanwhile, in the Al. theyve got guys that are 2’s and 3’s that are as good as or even better than hamels

73. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am

    what #2’s and #3’s are better than Hamels?? If your calling Cliff Lee a #2 for cleveland than Yes, this year he is better so far, but last year he was so bad that they sent him to AAA… Ervin Santana is not better than Hamels… I’d love to see where you go with this one

74. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 am

    not just the AL either. I shouldve probably said having a better year.

    this year, ryan dempster, dan haren,

    in the AL…justin duscherer, dana eveland, ervin santana, joe saunders

    obviously, those guys arent “better” but theyre having better years and some of them are as good in terms of talent and stuff.

75. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 am

    cliff lee this year.

76. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 am

    dan haren is probably on the same level as cole. hes not worse, probably not better. that guy is awesome.

77. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 am

    If you had one game to win… right now… what #2 or #3 starter from the AL would you actually put on the mound over Cole Hamels?

78. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 am

    2s better than or as good as Hamels
    Harden
    Dice-K
    Marmal
    Escobar(eventhough he’s hurt)
    Shields
    King Felix(since Bedard is considered the ace)
    Lee
    Haren

    3s better than or as good as Hamels
    Garza
    Santana
    Lester
    What’s his face from the Indians that is injured right now but was ridiculous last season(Carmona?)

    Hamels is a legit #1 for the NL. He’d be a #2 or #3 in the AL.

79. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Oh yeah, totally forgot about Joe Saunders…he’s a #3 and Ervin Santana is a #4.

80. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am

    I don’t know, John Lester won a world series game and has a no hitter after battling cancer.

81. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 am

    So according to you guys: Rich Harden is the best pitcher in baseball… and Cole Hamels is like the 40th best pitcher in baseball… ??

82. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am

    dont get me wrong i love hamels, hes awesome. but in the AL hes a 2. he needs to develop another pitch since he only really has 3.

83. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Rich Harden is better than Hamels. If you don’t see it then you’re dumb.

84. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am

    talent wise rich harden is top 5. cole isnt like 40th id say hes in the top 20.

85. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am

    I feel the same way Geoff. He should develop a slider or a sinker. A sinker could mask that change up.

86. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Cole is top 10 in the NL and would be top 20 in the AL. He’s top 30 over all.

87. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 am

    yeah it could. steve carlton, whom cole is always compared to even though hes like half as good, had a wicked sinker and an even sicker slider.

88. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am

    i cant stand those comparisons, yes he reminds me of carlton. but steve carlton was the single greatest left handed pitcher of all time. theres no debate about that.

89. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am

    if they are 100% healthy… Harden is more dominant than Hamels.

    But you have guys like Shields… Marmal… KIng Felix (eventhough if we got Bedard, their ace, he would be #2 behind Hamels on our staff)…Garza, Ervin Santana…

    Seriously?? All jokes aside…

90. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am

    marmol is a reliever.

91. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am

    I thought Carlton only had a fastball and slider? I never watched him pitch, I’m too young. Regardless he should go talk to Kendrick about developing a sinker and he can teach Kendrick a change up. I compare Cole to Santana. If Cole can develop a slider he’d be a mirror image of Santana.

92. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am

    My bad meant Marcum from the JAys. Also, totally forgot to put down Dempster.

93. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 am

    King Felix is the M’s actual ace. That guy is ridiculous. And yes, Bedard would be behind Hamels, but Sabathia would be ahead of Hamels if we got him.

94. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Nobody should compare him to Carlton… he’s made like 65 career starts…

    But to say that he would be a #2 or #3 on MOST american league teams is retarded.

    He would be #1 on the Yankees, O’s, White Sox, Twins, Royals.. possibly Tigers (unless you like Verlander more)… Rangers, and probably Mariners.

    #2 over Dice K in Boston, #2 in Toronto behind Halladay, #2 on the Angels behind Lackey, but ahead of Weaver, Santana, and Saunders,

95. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 am

    Sabathia is a CY Young winner and among the best pitchers of the past decade… so yea he’s better…

    Do you mean DUSTIN MCGOWAN on the Blue Jays? Their #2 starter, who is 6-6, with a 4.26 ERA…… is not better the Hamels.

    and Felix Hernandez is a hell of a pitcher, and I would love to have him on our team.. but Hamels is better Felix is a career 36-30, with a 3.73 ERA in 89 career starts.

96. Phil Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Don M. You are so biased. No, Marcum. He just got injured. He has a 2.40 ERA. King Felix is younger than Hamels and was brought up younger than Hamels. Look at Hamels career numbers. King Felix is better. Also, Lester is as good as Hamels and he’s the Red Sox #3. You also need to stop talking about wins/losses. IT’s a team stat. Kyle Kendrick is a perfect example of that. He’s 17-7 during his career on the Phillies. He also happens to get a ton of run support. That’s why he’s 17-7. Cole Hamels is 8-5 this year, and has lost like 4 1 run games. He should be 11-3 easily, but he’s not because the run support isn’t there. Hamels would probably be #2 on the Angels pitching staff because he’s a lefty, but only because he’s a lefty. Also, if Hamels was on that pitching staff and there was a healthy Escobar Garland wouldn’t even pitch for them. I’m not saying Hamels is bad by any means, he’s a great pitcher, but he’s not in the top 5 best pitchers like you think he is.

97. CLAY Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    My arguement isn’t that he’s great…. there are a bunch of pitchers better than him… But when you and Geoff go off and say that he would be the #2 or #3 on most AL teams… you sound like morons.. and you have nothing to back that up.

    The true mark of a quality pitcher, as I’ve said before.. is his ERA.

    Hamels vs. Hernandez…

    Career numbers so far… ERA… Cole is 3.59, Felix is 3.73.

    WHIP… Cole is 1.14, Felix is 1.28.

    Batting Avg against… Cole is .230, Felix is .257.

    Both are very good pitchers. Hamels also has a higher Strikeout per 9 rate, and a higher win percentage.. This got started cause you said there are teams out there with #3’s as good as Hamels.. and you’re dead wrong.

98. Don M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    P.S. im Clay Condrey today, the nasty #12 bullpen man for Phillies who loves huntin-n-fishin. And when my wife has her C-section Im bout to quit the chewin tabacco that I luv so much.

    Brett Myers who??

99. Geoff Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    I did NOT say MOST Al teams. I said on good AL teams. i might not have said that today though.

100. Phil Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm

     Actually, I never said there were 3s better than Hamels I said there were 3s as good as Hamels and 2s as good or better. Rich Harden is the A’s 2nd best pitcher this year, and he’s better than Hamels. Lester is as good as Hamels and he’s the BoSox #3. Marcum is better than Hamels and he’s the Jay’s #2. Do I need to keep repeating this?

101. Geoff Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm

     Rich Harden, Justin Duscherer and Dana Eveland are all having seasons as good as or better than hamels. are the last two better? no.

     but rich harden is the ace of that staff even if cole hamels is on it

102. Don M Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm

     I agree.. Marcum is nasty.. I thought he was more a bullpen guy, but he’s mostly a starter now. The fact is, there aren’t a whole lot of pitchers out there better than Hamels.

     Are there 10+ Definitely!! 20+… i doubt it… If Hamels is your #2 guy, you are looking at a VERY strong team, and a rotation that could match anyone is a short-series.

     We need a #2 whether that be Cole, or Bedard, or whoever… to actually compete for a World Series. We are currently good enough to make the postseason again in the NL, and once you get there, you never know. I wouldn’t want to face the D’backs in the playoffs. But i’d take my chances against any other team.

     Bedard, Hamels, Kendrick, Moyer, Eaton would make us a very legit team in the NL

103. Geoff Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:35 pm

     when cole gets a no hitter and consistently turns in lower game era’s then hell be a true ace. you need a sub-3 era and a no hitter and a few more compelte game shutouts. then youre really talkin

     he can become that, im sure of it. but hes not there yet

104. Phil Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm

     It’s not juts abotu the CG shut outs. He just needs to get his ERA under a 3.00

105. Don M Says:
     July 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm

     Geoff I think your expectations are too high… there are currently 11 guys with ERAs under 3… only three of them have CG-SHO Halladay, Sheets, and Lee.

     Hamels, Sabathia, and Shields all have 2 CG-SHO…

     It really is rare anymore, especially with the pitch counts they go crazy about.

     Active pitchers with a career ERA under 3.00 = 1…. Pedro Martinez… the next closest guy is Maddux with a 3.13…

     Maybe he won’t win 5+ CY YOUNGS… or any at all… but until I get a Halladay or Beckett.. I’ll take Hamels as my staff ace and be happy about. Cause there ain’t a whole lot of teams that can do better

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