Phillies Nation

153 Responses to “Mets Overcome Phils In 12”

1. Vernon Dozier Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 6:57 am

   The Phillies obviously have some serious problems, and surprisingly it’s with the offense. Here’s a fun fact: Our beloved Phillies are 13-1 against the Braves and Rockies, but 35-40 against everyone else. I’m worried.

2. Geoff Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:02 am

   Thats very troubling. This team is way, way, way overrated. They need more than I previously thought to be a threat to anybody if they make the playoffs. They need an awesome starter, an awesome setup man because im not relying on Gordon when he comes back, AND ANOTHER EVERYDAY HITTER in this lineup. Yes, thats right. Ive seen enough to come to those conclusions.

3. Lewisauce Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:04 am

   I’m starting to get extremely worried about this offense. Twenty runs a game against Houston means jack shit because Houston isn’t a contender.

   We certainly need a front-line starter, but I’m beginning to think that such an acquisition will ultimately be futile. The problem is the offense. Even if we get Bedard, so what? In the first round, against Milwaukee, we’ll toss out Hamels and Bedard. Both will go seven innings and give up one or two runs.

   But we’ll face Sheets and CC, and we’ll be shut out. And frankly, at this point, it ain’t even the elite pitchers I’m worried about. Anyone who knows how to pitch — i.e. anyone who has a sense of how to set up a hitter with fastballs for the out pitch, any pitcher who knows how to throw a situational breaking ball — can EASILY beat the Phillies.

   It’s painfully obvious that Rowand was a huge loss. It’s not just his BA, either. He’s a smart player (can hit a fly ball with a guy on third, can move runners over, can refrain from popping up to the catcher when the runner on first is going to steal).

   Way too many of the offensive players on this team take the Brett Myers mental approach: “As a closer, I don’t have to study hitters; I just go out there and throw.” Rollins, K-How, GIDP, Feliz and Junkins don’t have any concept of situational hitting or situational baseball. They just cruise out there and hack away at anything that looks like a meatball to them, and ANY pitcher with an ounce of brains can outsmart them.

   Am I way off base here?

   Does Charlie see this? Milt?

4. Lewisauce Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:06 am

   Geoff, I don’t know that they need an everyday hitter. Their problem isn’t talent, it’s intelligence. They need to wise up, or to be taught how to hit situationally, or be taught how to be patient at the plate. These things can be taught.

   Charlie uses the carrot. Maybe it’s time to try the stick. Maybe some guys have to ride the bench and get bitched at before they learn how to play Major League-level baseball.

   Either way, it’s scary. And it needs to be openly addressed by the manager.

   If he’s bright enough to see it.

5. Phil Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:11 am

   I wouldn’t put K-How on the list of people who don’t situationally hit. I’ve been shocked about how many RBI’s he’s been having with singles the he tries to drive up the middle to beat the shift. He does that even though he’s a power hitter and can hit home runs. He just wants to make sure the run scores sometimes. I would, however, put Utley on that list. He always k’s when there’s a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs.

6. Geoff Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:12 am

   They need Rich Harden and they need him to be healthy.

   They need Aaron Rowand too…thank you. That was a terrible mistake by Gillick. Thats why he dispensed with that policy because it was so stupid that it cost us.

   Milt has gotta be sacrificed if he cant see it. Charlie better see it. Thats on point though. Half of these guys just take huge-holed hacks at it instead of swinging to make contact. No plate vision. No plate discipline.

   They need to fix that or theyre not going anywhere this season.

7. Don M Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:14 am

   Geoff,

   Didn’t you see enough to come to those conclusions 2-3 weeks ago… and then after the swept the Braves, you changed your mind… but now that they lost 2 of 3 to the Muts, you came to the conclusion again… but if they win their next game, they’ll be World Series bound again???

   Why is it always so extreme with you?

   They are a better than average team, in a weak National League… there current team is good enough to win the NL East… if they add a pitcher or two at the deadline.. they could make it to the World Series. Nothing they can add right now will guarantee anything, but if they get that far, you just take your chances

8. Greg V Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:17 am

   At the start of this season, I saw us as far superior to the Mets. Today, I see we are pretty much even with the bets. The starting pitching ranges from great to mediocre. The bats are streaky and nobody seemed clutch until Werth cracked a two run dinger and the Tati homer. All in all, it was a horrible game and I very much regret spending nearly 8 hours of my time watching it.

9. Greg V Says:
   July 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am

   excuse my spelling error, we are even with the METS. Bad typing on my part.

10. Mark Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Offensive no-shows!

11. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    No I saw enough. I just didnt want to break it out beacuse it seemed obvious but I cant take it anymore, I had to say it.

    Oh I stopped thinking theyre a world series team after they failed in interleague play. That became obvious. What I did say is that there is no excuse for failing to get that far. Nothing less than that will be tolerated.

    Theyre a decent team in a weak division and a weak NL, thats right. They need more than they cant get at the deadline so after the deadline you just have to kind of hope they can put it all together. I mean, they dont have the annumition to get all 3 components. Youre talking about hitters like Nady, Bay being out there, and we already know the pitchers out there. Those guys wont be cheap.

12. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Also, im not the person out there crushing people for ripping them when they swept the braves. I was still ripping them. When this team wins one game, all these people come in and start talking abou thow great they are. Not that youre on eof them or anything but its noticeable. World Series went out the window a month ago. They need to focus on their own business now. failure is intolerable and unacceptable for this team, even when you take all factors into account.

13. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    I just don’t understand how a team with 4 super stars and a bunch of other star players can’t get things done?

14. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Then you’re a fake-fan dude… “nothing less than that will be tolerated” …. they SUCKED for the better part of the past decade, and the past few years, they keep getting closer and closer… last year they made the playoffs…. this year, they have a better team then they did last year… and they WILL be adding at the trade deadline.

    I’m 99.9% sure they won’t win a World Series this year… but I think they are a pretty good team, so i’ll keep watching, and once all their pieces click, you’re looking at one of the best teams in the NL (weak or not, who cares?)

    Add a pitcher like Bedard, and you can go heads-up with Arizona or the Brewers (neither of which have an offense like the Phillies.. and if the CUBS are the most overrated team in history, like Phil keeps saying… we should have no problem in the playoffs

15. Lewisauce Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Phil, I’d agree. It wasn’t always this way, but since the start of June, Utley has somehow been a poor/dumb hitter as well. And I’m on the fence (as usual) with K-How. He consistently LOOKS awful. But he consistently gets guys home with singles and doubles.

    The loss of Aaron Rowand dropped the hitters’ I.Q. by like 20 collective points.

16. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Fake fan? how dare you. tahts way out of line.

    When i say not tolerated I mean if they lose in the first round of the playoffs ill be more pissed than i was last year. Half the people on this site will say, oh well they made it to the playoffs so it was exciting again. No, No, No, thats not enough. I dont want to be stuck in purgatory. Either go all out or blow up the team, not in between. Last year they went in between, lohse, who was ok but not nearly enough. This year you have to go for it and turn over every stone. If theyre not prepared to do that then just blow the team up and rebuild on top of the core thats alreayd here. No more middle ground like theyve been in for years now. The flyers were like that for years with bob clarke at the helm and it drove the city nuts until they tanked out and had to be rebuilt (rather quickly, i must note) by holmgren.

    Not tolerated doesnt mean abandon the team dude. It means what I just entailed.

17. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    The Cubs won’t even make the playoffs. The Brewers will win that division. The Cards, Mets, or Marlins will take the WC. The Phillies are a better team than last year simply because the bullpen and slightly improved rotation. If Myers could actually pitch well, we woulda been leaps and bounds better and would probably have the best record in baseball. The offense is not better than it was last year. Certain guys got figured out. Rollins went on the DL and isn’t back to form. We’re really missing Rowand. Burrell is doing a great job in Rowand’s spot though. Rowand would be a good 2 hole hitter in this line-up. Regardless, I agree with Geoff. We need another bat in this line up, but where do you put it?

    1B- Ryan Howard
    2B- Chase Utley
    3B- Pedro Feliz
    SS- Jimmy Rollins
    RF- Jayson Werth should play everyday, he is the bat we need but we could use another.
    CF- Shane Victorino
    LF- Pat Burrell
    C- Carlos Ruiz…he’s the obvious one, but who do you get for that?

    They need to stop relying on the long ball.

18. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Yeah, I agree Geoff. We made it to the playoffs last year, that was as good as winning the WS with how much they’ve been through. Now this year they’re the division defending champs and have more to prove. They need to win the WS or at the very least get there.

19. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Thats a good question Phil. A very tough one. I think what they needed was jenkins (not everyday but was considered borderline everyday) to be useful. Thats killing them now. Victorino needs to be a better and more disciplined hitter but you cant get rid of him because of his defensive and baserunning speed.

    Its so frustrating The talent on offense is there but theyre all like, freakin retards.

20. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    you always see a progression: make the playoffs, fail, then get farther and lose, then win. Thats a common, but not universal, trend with championship winning teams. so unless theyre special and do it all then you want to see the progression. if they regress or do the same then thats not cool.

21. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    Top to bottom the Phillies do have the potential to have one of the best offenses of all time, but they can’t situationally hit. Last year they didn’t even have the pitching they do this year. Our pitching averages 3.5 runs a game or so, our offense is averaging 5 runs a game. Take into account how many blow outs we had and our offense is averaging 4 runs a game. That’s not good enough. I’m not happy with .5 difference. Last year our pitching was averaging 4.5 runs a game and our offense was averaging 6 runs a game. We were completely able to manhandle other teams pitchers, good pitching or not. What happened to these guys? All we’re missing is Rowand.

22. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am

    You guys need to understand that baseball is the toughest sport to even make the playoffs in, since only 4 teams get there in each league. And if we all agree that the way to stay competative is to build your team through young-talent, then how will “blowing the team up and rebuilding around the core” do anything.

    The only players on their team with any trade value are the ones that you want to keep on the roster…and nobody else will get you anything in return..

    If they go all-out this year..and don’t win the World Series, then what??

    Wouldn’t you rather see them progress… maybe make the NLCS or WS.. still keep their team together, and maybe next year add another piece… If the NL is as bad as everyone says it is, and if we have no chance to beat any AL teams…shouldn’t we try to keep building, instead of trying to re-build ??

23. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Building on what? Guys that are getting old? We have a 3 year window including this year. If we don’t win in the 2010 season it’s over, and these guys we speak of have no trade value, Rollins, Howard, etc.

24. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Oh, on a more laughable note, up in Toronto they’re suggesting the Blue Jays make a trade to the Phillies that would be Burnett for Jimmy Rollins straight up. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Maybe Rollins for Halladay straight up…maybe, but probably not because we’re in the race and we need our reigning MVP short stop.

25. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Yeah, sure. thats a valid point. But when you get a guy at the deadline KEEP HIM. thats building, sure. but wahts building when you let aaron rowand and kyle loshe get away for various reasons? now that set you back a year basically. so if you get a pitcher at the deadline, keep him around. keep burrell around. otherwise, youre always going to be struggling to rebuild everyyear while gaining no ground on the championship teams.

    going for it doesnt have to mean this year alone. just have progression, the kind that you just mentioned. but then dont turn around in the offseason and let pat burrell go away without replacing him with someone just as good.
    im in favor of that, but they dont do that. theyll let burrel walk and replace him with a rookie or someone not nearly as good.

    they replaced rowand, who they didnt want to pay, with jenkins, who is totally worthless and is way overpaid.

    now, the resigning of lidge, tahts good. that shows committment to winning. that says maybe, just maybe, they are changing their philosophy and going to try and hold the team together liek you said.

    to this point they havebt done much of that but im encouraged by the lidge extension. thats certaintly what i want to see.

26. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    yea..we have a window… where Utley, Hamels, Rollins, Lidge, Howard, etc are all here. Geoff suggested that, “This year you have to go for it and turn over every stone. If theyre not prepared to do that then just blow the team up and rebuild on top of the core thats alreayd here. ”

    which is wrong, because we have a few years to get it done… if 2 years from now, we haven’t gotten past the first round of the playoffs, then yea you think about rebuilding… but for now, adding little pieces is the way to go

    I think Burnett sucks.. I would do Rollins for Halladay in a heartbeat former CY Young winner for a former MVP… because pitching is so much harder to find

27. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Geoff, they resigned Lidge to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. A. It secures Lidge’s future here, which doesn’t even compare to how important it makes the latter B. It gets it out of Myers head that he will be a closer for the Phillies some day. This will either make him get his shit together if he wants to stay a part of the organization.

28. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Yeah, well the Jays would never do that. If you trade Rollins for Halladay who replaces Rollins at SS? Maybe you can do Rollins, Jenkins, and a prospect for Halladay and Eckstein who is ridiculously clutch in the post season.

29. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    rollins for burnett, haha. who does toronto think they are? i actually would trade jimmy rollins for roy halladay straight up if they had a prospect ready to come up behind him.

30. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Aaron Rowand got away because the Giants paid him something like $55 million over 5 years… which Im very glad the Phillies didn’t do.

    And Geoff, I swear to god you change your stance everyday…. weren’t you one of the guys saying how our prospects are all awesome, and if we don’t win it all this year, we should trade them and bring the young guys up ..??

    Or Phil’s offer to the Giants of Ryan Howard for Tim Lincecum (which he still for some reason thinks the Giants would actually do)

31. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Don, what im basically saying is, when i say turning over every stone I mean not only this season but in the offseason. keep our best guys and if they cant then bring in someone as good or better.

    if you dont hold onto the key components together, especially those pieces which they turned over every stone for at the deadline, then whats the point?

    i HATE rentals. i think thats such a waste. the sabathia situation with the brewers, well ok if they want the picks then take the picks but normally you dont do that.

    i shouldve qualified that aforementioned rant by saying that going all out doesnt mean getting a rental and then letting them go. thats almost counterproductive to a point. add to the talent pool. the phillies problem is a lack of organizational depth from majors to minors. the more talent you add and lock up the better.

    look at the rays. theyre all of a sudden going to be good for a few years to come now because they kept gathering and building and resigning and locking up the right players.

32. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    you could get away with Joe Schmoe playing shortstop behind Halladay and Hamels… as long as the dude played good defense, he could put up Carlos Ruiz numbers at the plate.

33. Brian Michael Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Did any one else see that Chase Utley is confirmed for the home run derby?

34. NYC PIMP DaDDy Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    soookers

    mets win

    victrious

35. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Good, he should be Brian Michael. Is there a list of who’s in it?

36. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    What is a soooker? Learn to form complete sentences. Are all Mets fans dumb or is it just me?

37. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    actually my stance is the same. Ill come up with a new idea that either is agreed upon or validated. but the fundamental desire to see them win is my stance. either win now (now = within 3 years, which is a good approach obviously) or tear it up and build for the future. obviously, some of our prospects are and will be awesome. some will be ok, and some will not pan out. my point is theres a fine line to walk when you do “go for it”. by the time howard is up for free agency they better have won, otherwise thats kind of the end of the road there given what we know now.

    if someone comes up with an idea and i say, yes thats a good idea id liek that, you classify that as a flip flop. and tahts not what it is at all. thats way off base. its just acknowledging a good idea.

    you sound like someone who relies on fox news for their information, lol.

38. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    Right but if they Rays fall short of the playoffs this year, and then make it next year but lose 1st round… in the third year they are going to have fans saying “go all out, or blow it all up”.

    I know what you mean, but you seem to rant, rant, rant…..and then you calm down and try to make sense out of what you just said.

    If the Phillies make the postseason this year but don’t do anything… next year they still have most of their team together… Nobody thought Jenkins would struggle this bad, or Myers would suck…. but nobody thought Durbin, Dobbs, Werth, Lidge, etc would be this good either.

    I really, really like the direction this team is going.. they have flaws (RYAN HOWARD).. but they also have great upside in Utley and Hamels… I don’t think they should or will sign Howard long-term because he’s not that good.. If he ends the year with .230 avg, 45 HR, 140 RBI is that worth $10 million? …..

    Another reason the Rays are good is because they do a very good job of manufacturing runs using speed and baserunning… which Rollins and Victorino are for, but they’ve had trouble being on base on a regular basis

39. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Don M, yes that’s worth 10 million. Are you serious? The guy who is going to lead the NL in RBI’s and homers every year isn’t worth $10 million? What is worth in your opinion?

40. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    Oh, not to mention he did win an MVP, and you never know if he might win another one. He’s not even in his prime yet. Players usually reach there prime between the ages of 30 and 32.

41. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    I’m a CNN guy..if anything.

    I don’t mean to bust your balls, but literally last week, you said something along the lines of if they didn’t win it THIS YEAR… they should blow it all up, rebuild, trade everyone, bring up young guys etc…

    TODAY… I agree 100% with what you just said… they have a window where they have some guys under contract Utley, Rollins, Lidge…and some guys under their control… K-How, Hamels.. if they can’t find the right out-side help to go with what they have now.. then they’ll need to start all over.

    But the Phillies making the playoffs again this year, but not winning the World Series, is still a successful year.. the more experience they gain the better because a real World Series contender is not far away in Philadelphia…maybe not this season, but sometime soon

42. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Im not denying that I go overboard when Im pissed at them for losing, like yesterday. so we give them 3 years lets say. lets go all out in those 3 years, keeping the core together, and getting new and quality pieces, and move onto a championship. thats going all out. get talent, keep it, and add to it.

    if theyre not going to do that, a very basic thing that you and i and everyone else expects, then whats the point? then you wonder if th eowners even care about winning and are happy to take our money and not try to increase the value or their investment.

    The rays can single you to death, the phillies cant and yes rollins and victorino are coming up woefully short in that aspect of their games.

43. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Geoff and I both said blow this team up. I would blow this team up if they don’t make the playoffs, but they more than likely will. If they don’t then they are a fraud and should be blown up.

44. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Oh yeah theres no doubt I flew off the handle last week. I wont deny that. sabathias off the market so theres really not anyone else available, easily, that youd blow up the farm for.

    im pretty sure it was also an angry response to the 3 people on here that still think they done need any help with pitching.

    yeah i dont really watch tv news, i dont think anyone does. cnn or msnbc dont annoy me when its on though. fox just is garbage. there specifically to piss people off.

45. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Im sure if they miss the playoffs, liek Phil said, I would be pissed off enough to call for something like that. lol.

46. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Don M, when will you answer my question to the worth of Ryan Howard?

47. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Phil, Did I say he wasn’t worth that, or did I ask so other people could share their opinion?? I forget…

    I think that if he sets a new major league record for strikeouts in a season, and hits closer to .200 then he does to .300 ….then maybe its worth taking a look at. Teams aren’t afraid of him anymore, because they know they can get him out without him putting the ball in play.

    There was a stat the other day, that the Phillies have something like +78 more runs scored then their opponents.. the Marlins have like -20 less runs scored then their opponents.

    If Howard leads the league in RBIs but can’t ever advance runners, or hit sac-flys.. he doesn’t help in the “manufacturing runs” department.. then is he still all that valuable?

48. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Don M, that’s retarded. If Burrell is worth 14 million right now then Howard is worth $10 million easy. Howard strikes out and all of that, but he is leading the team BA with RISP…

49. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    Basically, I really don’t think the guy is worth a long-term deal… The prime of a guy’s career, I always thought was supposed to be 28-30… but so lets split the difference and say 28-32.

    He is starting to take the ball the other way again, which make him dangerous at the plate. He has power to all-fields… but he said twice last week, that a strikeout is the same as any other type of out. When your team is struggling to score runs, and the guy you count on to drive them in has that opinion, that ain’t a good thing.

    I think they should keep re-upping him through arbitration, because there is no reason to pay him $15 million per year, if you can get away with paying him $10 M. Hamels is going to get either a monster contract, or a monster arbitration figure… Victorino is going to need a raise… Werth is going to need a raise… Rollins is def under market value… Durbin and Madson are under paid..

    I’m in favor of keeping Howard around for a few years, but the fact that he laughed when they offered him the same figures they gave Utley shows you that he thinks he’s better than he really is. He is terrible in the field….

    They did screw him by keeping him in the minors too long.. lets see what kind of 2nd-half he has

50. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Burrell ISN’t worth that $14 million, which is why the Phillies will only keep him around if he offers them a home-town discount.

51. Vernon Dozier Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    I think if you put a high average hitter with mediocre power numbers in this cleanup spot he’d be close to Howard’s RBI total. Just the fact that he’ll be making contact more often is a big plus. If James Loney was here batting fourth, he’d have at least an additional 20 RBIs. He also wouldn’t be such a defensive liability and he strikes out much less. Nothing good happens with a strikeout. A lot of good things can happen just by putting the ball in play.

    Loney: .302 BA
    Howard: 223 BA

    Loney: .358 OBP
    Howard: .313 OBP

    Loney: .458 SLG
    Howard: .475 SLG

    Loney: 111 OBP+SLG
    Howard: 101 OBP+SLG

    Loney: 47 RBI
    Howard: 76 RBI

    Loney: 47 K
    Howard: 123 K

    I think a guy that makes contact would thrive in this lineup. Howard is starting to look more and more like Dave Kingman.

52. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    I didn’t know they offered him an Utley type contract. Unfourtantely the name of the game is home runs. Power hitters always get more money than other players. If Teixera is seeking out 20 million a year then Howard will surely get 20 million a year or more. I am not trying to back the guy up because he is a one tool player, but he is going to be one of the most prolific power hitters of all time. It kind of balances out.

53. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Don M, Burrell is worth that $14 million this year. An AL team will offer him $15 million a year to go DH or play LF there. The Philles will offer him 3 years $30 million probably.

54. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    I like burrell, but im not opposed to letting him walk. my issue is, as stated before, if he goes you replace him with someone AS GOOD or better. not with geoff jenkins.

    that begs the question, what if the market says someone as good makes more than their price? well thats why you negotiate during the season, to get a hometown discount as youve said,. theyd have to trade for someone as good but cheaper but thatd requrie prospects and itd be a mess again.

    so much easier to negotiate during the season and get him for cheaper.

55. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Werth would be an adequate replacement. Then they’ll just need someone to play RF.

56. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Yeha, and that person has to be good though and have power. otherwise theyd have taken a step back again. the lineup isnt as good this year because, as you and opther have stated, the team regressed when they allowed rowand to leave and replaced with jenkins.

    this should be a message to the phillies ownership/gm: you cant just throw any old junk player into CBP and because they have power assume that theyll hit 30HR and drive in 80 runs. baseball doesnt work taht way.

57. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    There is just a good chance to get burned by contracts when you go long-term with someone.. look at Soriano, Carlos Lee, …we wanted them here, but if your payroll is $100 million, and you have a guy that makes $15-20 M in a season, that limits what you can do for the rest of your roster.

    I like Burrell, but maybe at 2 years, $20…with an option… because if you aren’t counting on Golson, or Berry, or any of those guys being major league-ready outfielders by then, then we should try to trade them.

    If they Phils want to keep Hamels, he’s going to cost them.. and if they want to add another starter, that costs money too… i’d rather that money go to pitching then go to Burrell and Howard.

    Good arguement with the Loney thing… a team of .300 hitters will beat a team of power hitters everyday. Like Geoff said, look at the Rays who can single you to death and run the bases!

58. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Im not opposed to going cheaper than burrell, but it would require gillick to be creative. which is fin ewith me as long as they get a productive guy with some power.

    loney would look good in the 2 hole. not going anywhere anytime soon though. a guy like that would be huge for this lineup.

59. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    sry i havnt been around…gotta work a little, but im glad this isnt football bc J-Roll would defeintaly be holding out for salery disputes… great move by the phils when we did that…was that wade in his final year? i remeber it was in the middle of a year

60. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    gillick wont be doing this offseason im pretty sure

61. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    if we need pitching so much whats wrong with trading howard(rather do in the offseason). we would of course lose RBI’s but wed pick up better situational hitting, DEFENSE, less strikeouts, a more rounded hitter whether thats dobbs or whoever takes his spot(by more rounded i mean more basehits, put the ball in play, situational at bats). if we keep him for another year after this and his avg stays thhe same he loses trade value, i think his trade value is the highest it will be right now and this offseason. we trade him we get young pitching and a couple players that will hopefully lead this club in 5 years

62. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    Because what team in their right mind is going to trade “young pitching and a couple of players that can lead a club in 5 years” for Ryan Howard, who… “gets RBIs… but plays no defense, strikesout a lot, gets no basehits, and has trouble putting the ball into play”

    He is the newest version of Adam Dunn… teams fear his power… but they know they can strike him out more often then not.

63. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    howards trade value was at its peak a year or so ago but now its just better to hang onto him unless someone blows you away completely

64. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Besides Phil, who thinks we can get Tim Lincecum from the Giants…

    Does anyone think that the Phillies can anything decent in return for Ryan Howard right now?

65. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Dude, you can’t even compare Dunn and Howard. Howard is MUCH better than Dunn. The 76 RBI’s and fastest player to 150 home runs says it all. Howard will have 400 home runs before Dunn has 400.

66. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Yeah he is much better than dunn. i wouldnt even tak ethe sabathia haul for howard. if you take less youre selling low. you gotta sell high. you have to basically clean out somebodys farm system when you trade howard. if you can do that, then ok, trade him.

67. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    No but thats the type of hitter he his… he’s a HR-or-Strikeout guy… 3 years ago, when Dunn was hitting 45-HR a year, he was dangerous.. people figured out his swing, and now he still K’s all the time.

    That is my fear with K-How… that pitchers will adjust to him, more then he will adjust to them

68. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    You could clean out someone’s farm if they want a power hitter as prolific as Howard. A lot of teams do need that power in their line-up. Angel’s, A’s, Blue Jay’s, Indians, Dodgers, and Giants to name a few. Howard in one of those line-ups could make them contenders/guarantee them a playoff birth, and the Angel’s would guarantee them a WS win.

69. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Yeah, but Howard also won an MVP and even last year still had a great season. There is no doubt in my mind that he will strike out 200 times this year, but he’ll also have 50 homers 140+ RBI’s, and a .250+ BA when all is said and done.

70. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Yea but since pitching and defense win you championships… nobody is going to give us what we need in order to get Howard.

71. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:51 am

    if im trading with the angels i want ervin santana, howie kendrick and good prospects.

    also, the cubs have started to pursue harden now. wed better get in there. you dont want them to get him. hes the best guy out there still.

72. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    If Howard is .250, 50 HR, and 140 RBIs…. I’ll pay for you to get a washie-washie from one of those nice little women in center city..

73. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    th eangels would never do that by the way, im being nice in asking for that and theyd still say no

74. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Howie Kendrick playing 2ndbase…and move Utley to first.. would make our team WAY better because Kendrick puts the ball in play.

75. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    I guarantee you that if Gillick put Howard out on the trade market that teams would jump at him. Also, offense can get you to the playoffs. ie Yankees every year, Mariners in the late 90’s early 00’s, Phillies, etc. What’s the point of having great pitching and D if you can’t get to the post season…A’s, Blue Jay’s, Giants, Indians, Dodgers, etc. The Angel’s are only in 1st in their division because of K-Rod. If it weren’t for K-Rod they wouldn’t have as many saves as they do. It’s obvious their pitching single handedly wins them games. They get a 1 run lead and leave it to K-Rod to get the job done. They could use that power bat in their line up so they don’t have to rely on only K-Rod to make sure they win the game. What if he gets injured or gets overworked and starts pitching poorly? Then you’re screwed.

76. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    We could possibly get Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana for Howard and Cardenas in the off season.

77. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Don M, my gf wouldn’t appreciate that, but I will take the cash that it costs to get a hand job at a wishie washie place instead.

78. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Alright.. BANK!

    That will be the best money I’ve ever spent if you’re right.

    What is the point of having HR hitters, if you don’t have the starting pitching or Defense to hold leads?? Howard would definitely be coveted by some teams.. but you wouldn’t be able to get a top-pitcher for him, which is the one thing that the Phillies really need.

79. Vernon Dozier Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    I don’t think Howard is as valuable a commodity as people in Philly like to believe. He had a 45 point BA drop last season and it looks like he’s heading for another 35-40 point drop this season. His strikeout rate continues to climb. That’s a sign of a player who can’t (or won’t) make adjustments. By this point in his career, Ryan should be figuring things out instead of going backwards.

80. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    don m. i find it funny how you quote me but not with what i say. you work for the press, you turn it all around to the way you like it?

81. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    exactly what i was thinking don m, utley at first h-kendrick at second. santana pops into the rotation as a 2. kendrick moves into the 2 hole (hes a true 2hole hitter)

82. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Who leads off then Geoff? I still don’t think J-Roll should be our lead off man. I really like Werth in the lead off spot.

83. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Yea but the Angels wouldn’t make that move… unfortunately..

    Go ahead Chris.. explain what you meant then.. cause my response to your post was completely reasonable

84. benjamin franklin Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Utley should be in back of rollins no matter what even if rollins is 2

85. NYC PIMP DaDDy Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    yallz is crap. Yallz stadi-umm is a dump, just like ya city, just like ya team.

    Yall kannot ever mess wit NYC FooLZ/

    cOME TO SHEA AND GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE.

86. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    this is what i said:
    “we would of course lose RBI’s but wed pick up better situational hitting, DEFENSE, less strikeouts, a more rounded hitter whether thats dobbs or whoever takes his spot(by more rounded i mean more basehits, put the ball in play, situational at bats).”

    this is what you said:
    “for Ryan Howard, who… “gets RBIs… but plays no defense, strikesout a lot, gets no basehits, and has trouble putting the ball into play””

87. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    NYC PIMP DaDDy…you must have the IQ of a rock. FYI Shea smells like a toilet.

88. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    werth – h-kendrick – rollins or utley – utley or burrell? something like that. werth is a better leadoff hitter right now because jimmy is not right. when hes on rollins is an awesome leadoff hitter.

    i wish the angels would go for that. but if i were the angels GM id immediately hang up the phone as soon as the name howie was uttered.

89. Geoff Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    nyc pimp daddy…please learn how to type in enlish properly.

    do you even know where the sun goes when it goes down? im just curious because you dont sound like youd, y know, know something like that CHIEF….

90. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    ur a joke don m… thats why no one respect you around here….notice why not many people support what you say other then guys that come around once in a whoile when ur in a tough spot( or other wise known as guys you make up)… dont try to twist my words so i look bad… YOU A JOKE DON M

91. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Yeah, they can actually part with Santana because of how insane that pitching staff is, but Kendrick they wouldn’t part with. Whatever, regardless, trade Howard for a #1 pitcher or a pitching prospect that is MLB ready and is rated as a #1. Don’t do this now, but do it during the offseason. Utley can play 1st and you still have Cardenas to play 2B. You can even try out Donald at 2B as well. The more I think about it the less I’d like to give up Cardenas. He seems like that situational hitter type that gets on base that we need.

92. chris m Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    the angels wouldnt trade those guys for santana and i think santana had more value last summer then howard has now

93. TJ Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Wow, you guys are tough on players. I understand that their a Philly team but wow. Ryan Howard is more valuable to our team than most of you would like to admit. He’s batting .333 with men in scoring position w/ 2 out this year and .163 without men on. He clearly swings for the fences when there is no one on but goes for contact when there are. He had a terrible April, but that was overshadowed by Utley’s fire and he has been progressing each month. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying he’s all that great but some of you make him seem completely worthless to the team. I’ll bet any one person on here 50 bucks that he hits .250 or better at the end of the year.

94. Phil Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    TJ, I already said he’ll hit .250 140 RBIs and 50 homers. Don M offered me a wishie washie downtown if he does. Jump on that, maybe he’ll pay for both of us.

95. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    …So I embellished on your phrase a little bit… but your point is the same as mine. That Howard plays poor defense, strikesout a lot, does not get basehits, and can be a very poor situational hitter.

    I think everyone agrees on that… so my point is, with Howard being all of the above, what team would want to give up a solid pitcher, or a top pitching prospect for that?

    I might be a joke.. in fact, I probably am… but the fact that you, me, geoff and Phil are among the main posters on here.. and you guys don’t always agree with me. That doesn’t keep me up at night. Seriously, no joke.

96. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Whoaa.. . what do they even charge?? I’ll pay for Phil’s handy from an Asian lady… I gotta be careful with those funds$$$

97. philsrintrouble Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    PHILLIES SUCK, the Mets are crushing them now, no more playoffs

98. TJ Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Phil, Id rather take the cash as well but it will happen.

99. Don M Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Here Chris.. Im sorry I got you so upset.

    http://www.councilforrelationships.org/classes/anger_management.htm

    There are classes in University City, Voorhees, and Paoli… starting in October

100. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

     Yea the Mets are defintely crushing the Phillies like a Billy Wagner pitch right now.

     If your team’s payroll is over $120 million, but your team’s winning percentage isn’t above .500% …you should not be able to talk smack to opposing fans..

     Mets sucks, there fans are the biggest slobs in baseball

101. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

     Well us sucky Phillies are still in first believe it or not. Let me know when that changes “philsrintrouble”

102. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

     ha good one…very well constructed

103. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

     mets fan are so ignorant…do they relize they had the biggest collaspe in baseball history, the are a .500 club with a ton of old players and bad contracts and there not in first

104. ts Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

     You’ve gotta be kidding me some here…

     Phil…Utley “always k’s when there’s a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs”??? Do you watch baseball? He has 5 strikeouts in 31 plate appearances in that situation. With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out he’s batting .364 with a 1.251 OPS and AS MANY SAC FLIES AS STRIKEOUTS. Seriously, where did you get that idea?

     And for the love of crumbcake stop saying Burrell is making $14m just because he’s in the last year of a contract that averaged $8.5m. In 2002 he was paid $1.3m and had 116 RBIs and 37 HRs. I think the Phils have gotten a good return on investment there.

     Food for thought regarding Howard…on hits to right field in his MVP year his ops was 1.197. His career average OPS there is 1.166. This year it’s .687. Until he can either A) hit enough balls to left to stop teams from shifting or B)hit a HR every time he pulls the ball he’ll never sniff a .300 average again.

105. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

     Well that all depends how good his smelling is. His career average is 278 and im convinced he can bring up his average 50 points after the break.

106. Geoff Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

     Now, the mets DEFINITELY are a team taht needs to be blown up this year. talk about old and overpaid. there are like 3 guys i respect on taht whole team

107. Geoff Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

     how does omar minaya still have his job? he shouldve been fired by now. talk about a gutless, worthless coward GM.

108. Bruce Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

     Ahh-h… the Howard bashing continues. How I remember Burrell being the whipping boy in past years by fans and certain media alike until they woke up and realized his value to the team.

     I’ll repeat in part a statement I made in an earlier post.

     ” Sure, we all like to see Howard cut down on his strikeouts and improve his BA and OBP. However, that is of lesser concern(s) to me than his fulfilling the primary role of a 4 hole hitter in the lineup. That role is to drive in runs for which there is no one better than Howard in the NL. He leads the league with 76 RBIs. 64 of those RBIs came with runner on base (56 with RISP). He leads ALL hitters in the lineup with a .340 BA for RISP. Personally, I’ll tolerate his strikeouts and low BA so long as he delivers in the clutch as he done all season.”

     Someone mentioned he is on pace for another monstrous RBI production of about 140 RBIs. Let’s see… $10 million = 140 RBIs. Less than market value and the Phillies are grateful to have him considering their offensive struggles of key players like Rollins, Ruiz and from the bench (exception of Dobbs and Coste).

     It’s common knowledge about Phillies’ inconsistency to manufacture runs in game situations. Without Howard’s team leading BA with RISP, it could be a lot worse.

109. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

     Thank you Bruce.

110. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

     he sucks(minaya)… everybody thought he was brillaint afer bringing in delgado,pedro,beltran,lo duca,alou… look at where it got them after the one season…now there stuck with a bunch of guys that cant play anymore… hes on the hot seat this year too…. and castillos contract last year….hahaha

111. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

     and he got the job bc he was supposed to fill the farm system with a lot of signings of prospects for latin america…well he did real well there. they got a worse farm then us and one of the worst in baseball if not the worst

112. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

     Howard’s low batting average is one of the reason’s the Phillies struggle in close games… they can’t manufacture runs.

     I think that Rollins is the biggest issue in the lineup right now though.. Ruiz isn’t paid to hit, so he doesn’t bother me. Rollins and Victorino aren’t doing a good enough job of setting the table. Now they’ve been switched around in the lineup and Werth is getting his at-bats again because they need someone to take pitches in the leadoff spot

     I started going on a rant about Howard because people think you can trade him and get a #1 pitcher for him (to which I keep saying.. If they could, they would). He is best suited as a DH in the AL, or he actually works well in our lineup IF he isn’t the only one that produces offense.

     Rollins and Vic need to get on base so that Utley, Burrell, and Howard can move them around… Feliz, Werth, Coste, Jenkins aren’t bad 2nd choices for RBI-guys.. this is a good team, with a deep bench, but you can’t get anything useful if you try to trade Howard

113. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

     Didn’t the Mets owner just say that Omar has done a great job too?? Right after they fired Randolph I think the owner praised the GM…

     Wright is good, Beltran and Reyes can be great…at time… Church is playing very well.. and the rest of the their team sucks it

114. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

     I agree with you 100% Bruce, but I’d still trade him during the off-season. Burrell is having a great year with RISP too, and the only reason his RBI’s aren’t in the 70’s is because he has 2 guys that like to clear the bases in front of him, along with a guy that likes to end innings in front of him. I actually think they should try batting Burrell 3rd because of his ridiculous OBP. He’d score a lot of runs behind those 2 guys that can clear the bases.

115. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

     well the useful thing to trade hoawrd is salery space… we CANT lock up pat, hamels, howard and any big free agent pitchers or hitters with him on this team. personally i would take pat, lock up hamels and prospects over howard and no pat and issues on locking up hamels

116. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

     Pat the Bat can play 1B until Cardneas is ready to come up. Next years outfield could be Werth, Victorino, and Golson.

117. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

     anybody else wonder shy charlie is pulliong burrell in the 7th innings when he gets on base when hes not even the lead runner or a huge run? it hurt us yesterday not having his bat in extras and the day before even though we got blown out but we had so taguchi the other day with a big at bat in his position. i understand defense but his bats more important. if defense is a huge issue then pull howard late in games too( i dont recomend that tho). he baffles me

118. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

     I would take that two for one as well Chris but honestly I dont think that Howard is leaving anytime soon.

     Why is everyone portraying us to be sellers on here, suggesting we trade Howard or Rollins for various reasons. We are close to the NLCS, why would we trade a former MVP? At the point we are as a team right now the only way to improve without sacrficing what we have in the majors would be to trade some spects for Bedard or Harden.

119. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

     Neither should be pulled out unless you’re going into the 8th with a 2 or more run lead.

120. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

     And by saying that I dont mean sellers right now but within the next two years.

121. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

     no body is recommending trading howard in the middle of the year…but this offseason i think we gotta wonder who do we want, burell or howard? dont think you can have both long term

122. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

     Choosing who we want will solely depend on our system’s progress. Will Golson be ready by next year? Can we give up Howard’s numbers? How much longer can Burrell put up numbers, can he play first if Howard is the odd man out? Will Hamels take a deal 3 years or shorter? Among other factors.

123. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

     My mistake Chris, I corrected myself. Within the next two years.

124. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

     hamels will get more then 3 years… gillick is out and his 3 year policy will be thrown out… even if not hamels is an exception to asy bs rule like that… burell deserves a 3 yr deal from us… i havnt seen his production go down in any recent years

125. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

     Actually chrism you gotta decide do you want Howard or do you want Burrell and Hamels? I don’t think Hamels is getting signed under Gillick, but if we get a new GM hopefully he smartens up and gives Hamels a 5+ year deal.

126. Vernon Dozier Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

     Why is it bashing Ryan Howard to suggest that the team can be made better by possibly moving him? If the Dodgers would trade Loney and either Billingsly or Kershaw for Howard I’d do it in a heartbeat because I think the Phillies would be a better TEAM. It has nothing to do with bashing Ryan Howard. It has everything to do with making the Phillies better.

127. chris m Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

     ya greed phil that what i said earlier about hamels and burell…burell means a ton to this lineup, not that howard doesnt but burell is on base all the time… a lot of key hits…on another thought, we could of extended lidge this offseason for NOTHING copared to what he got now. that big contract is a lot of money based on our owners salery cap… obvisiously we didnt know lidge would be this good but we kknew what we were gonna get and what was pissible form him

128. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

     Vernon.. why would the Dodgers trade a .300 hitter with a lot of potential AND their top pitching prospect, for Ryan Howard??

     This is my main arguement… if the Phillies could get that in return, of course they would.. but no team in baseball is stupid enough to pull a move like that and only get Howard in return…. well maybe the Mets.. they suck at life, like their fans

129. Vernon Dozier Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

     That’s where the divide is. There are some people who have said that other teams would be lining up to trade for Howard and others saying he has little value. Hopefully, the Phillies are at least exploring their options.

130. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

     The Phillies better be exploring their options but I see us, assuming we trade Howard in the next year or two, getting a fairly good prospect and a MLB ready pitcher at most.

131. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

     He has value.. but I think teams would MAYBE give you a few prospects for him.. but not a #1 pitcher… not their #1 pitching prospect…and definitely not one of those guys PLUS prospects.

     Howard is a power-hitter… and the power-hitter that strikesout a lot is becomming less desireable, teams now want that Hamilton, Crawford, Ellsbury type.. a guy with a good average, some speed, decent defense, some power.. basically a good all-around player instead of JUST a power stick.

     Don’t get me wrong, most teams would love to have Howard in their lineup, because he is a difference maker.. but not at the cost of top pitching

132. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

     I dont think they trade him all that soon… he’s under their control for 3 season after this one? So maybe after the 2010 season, if they haven’t reached their goals by then… he’ll be like 31 or so, and he go be a DH in the AL and live happily ever after..

     There is no real need to trade…unless teams are throwing pitchers at you…which they aren’t

     What should I get for lunch??

133. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

     Agreed Don, but its just wishful thinking we get something good for him.

     BLT with a potato salad side.

134. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

     Sounds good… anywhere in center city that rocks a mean BLT ???

     Coventry Deli has pretty good everything, but im not trying to get caught in the rain walking that far

135. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

     Don M, he’s never been on the market so you don’t know really what he can net. I post on the MLB message board, and a couple of months ago there was a post about players on the trade block, and I threw Howard out there, and everybody that wasn’t a Phillies or Mets fan was like omg noway he’s on the trade block. He’s the best power hitter in baseball. If that was true a team would give anything for him, blah blah blah. He could net a farm, trust me. You just don’t see his value because you think he’s shitty on the Phillies, which he’s not.

136. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

     I’m not familiar with Center City at all, from South Jersey. We have this little Deli about 4 blocks from my house that had the ‘03 Philly’s best Cheesesteak. They carry all the goods.

137. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

     The thing with trading Howard if at all is if we’re in contention in 2010.

138. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

     Off topic from the whole Howard thing, but does anyone forsee Moyer and Kendrick’s ERA dipping below 4.0 by the end of the season? That would look really nice for our starting rotation heading into the playoffs.

139. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

     I don’t think he’s shitty….. but I do know that he’s hitting .232 and teams would rather take a .300 hitter than a power-hitter.

     I just think that he can’t get you a #1… I was so baffled by your stance that the Giants would trade Tim Lincecum for Ryan Howard….. because they like power hitters…

     so know thats what i keep comaring things to in my mind.. Could Howard get you something in return.. YES…. could he get you enough in return, that it would actually make it worthwhile to trade him? No..

140. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

     Yea…..my bad about the Howard rants… we do need a new topic…

     Kendrick is really starting to impress me.. when he keeps the ball down, he is VERY effective. Moyer has looked good in a bunch of his starts, and looked somewhat “tired” in others. I think Kendrick has the chance to win you about 15 games with an ERA around 4 (under 4.00 is probably a stretch) …I think Moyer is a nice pitcher, who would be best suited as your #4 or #5 and he can outduel other teams young guys in that role… I don’t think Moyers ERA goes low this year

141. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

     Moyer’s ERA is 4.12…it peaked at 4.09. If Moyer can get another outing like he had against the Marlins for his next outing he could drop below 4.00 just from that. Kendrick needs to string together another 3 outings in a row with 6-8 innings and less than 2 runs earned to drop below 4.0

142. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

     I just think they’ll go in opposite directions.. the more time Kendrick has at this level, the better he can be. Moyer tends to get tired as the season goes on…

     Moyer has amazed me at times this year.. he doesn’t seem to get a whole lot of run support when he’s pitching.. but overall, i think all of the Phillies pitchers have done a very good job of keeping us in games and giving us a chance to win

143. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

     I’m sure you mean besides Myers of course.

144. Don M Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

     Yea Myers is terrible…

     I was calling for his move to the bullpen, so they can sell him as a closer …probably more than a month ago now.

     He’s bad… when he throws pitches, his freakin head is looking somehwere between the phils dugout and 1st base… he’s lost on the mound

145. Geoff Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

     i definitely just took a half day today.

     kendrick isnt going anywhere. itd be retarded to move him. no need to at all. young pitching, keyword young, is too valuable.

146. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

     Its fun watching Okajima pitch, he looks at the ground and somehow throws it on target.

     I don’t see their era dropping below four because for every 4 good outings they have they’ll have a 5 run outing. Its inevitable. But I do hope that Kendrick can continue to keep his pitches down and make progress at this level.

147. TJ Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

     Geoff, who suggested moving Kendrick? Are you talking about Howie Kendrick?

148. Phil Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

     I am rallying behind Kendrick picking up a lot of slack next year. He dropped his ERA 2 points over his half of a season last year. I think he can do it again this year. Have faith.

149. Geoff Says:
     July 7th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

     kyle kendrick. ive heard people call for kendricks trade dozens of times on here. not today necessaqrily though.

150. Don M Says:
     July 8th, 2008 at 8:48 am

     Why trade your 23 year old pitcher?? Yo guys, pitching is literally SO hard to get that if you have it… you don’t trade it… and to get it, you need to give up a TON

     Hamels, X, Kendrick, Carrasco, X …. depending on the fill-ins, if its Myers, Happ… it has a chance to be a good, young rotation

151. Geoff Says:
     July 8th, 2008 at 9:02 am

     young pitching = dont trade

     they can trade adam eaton and i wont care though. if he even has any value.

152. Don M Says:
     July 8th, 2008 at 9:23 am

     If he made $2 Million a year, he might… but at 8.5M or whatever he gets next year… he’s not going anywhere.

     He really hasn’t pitched that bad too many times this year… as your #5 in your rotation, he’s really not that bad…not good… but not that bad

153. Geoff Says:
     July 8th, 2008 at 9:24 am

     i still think theyve gotta matt morris him and just pay him to get out.

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