Phillies Nation

101 Responses to “Bullpen Blows Lead; Phils Lose 4-3”

1. Dennis Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 8:34 am

   Does anyone know if Taguchi’s throw reached home plate yet?

2. MA Phanatic Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 8:35 am

   somewhere, Pat Burrell is reading that and saying, “That’s what I said!!”

3. Geoff Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 8:52 am

   The dodgers improvement is strictly because they caught pat gillick asleep at the wheel. the phillies wanted blake apparently but the dodgers actually acted and they got him cheap. Again, failure at the deadline.

   But, last night was of greater concern. The offense was quiet again. The bullpen blew a lead in a big game which hasnt happend much, if at all, all year. When the team finds new ways to LOSE in august, its very disturbing. they just arent really that good.

   without victorino they have to get someone off waivers of call up golson. thats not good. theyre in trouble if hes out for any real amount of time, and if he is they might actually be done. depending on if anyone shows mettle and steps up, raising their level of play to fill the void. but that would require heart, so you wont see jimmy rollins doing that.

4. Chris Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 8:57 am

   Why was Ethier not walked in the bottom of the ninth? This makes no sense. There was one out with winning run on second. It would have created a force out/double play situation. Manuel is just plain horrible. You know Bowa had to love this.

5. Geoff Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 8:57 am

   fortunately i have two games in the last week of the season, one with the braves, and one on the second to last game of the season. that should be entertaining because its going to come down to the wire. the phillies arent good enough to run away with it.

6. R.Mac Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 9:00 am

   geoff where do you get your info? im assuming from some of your posts that you pull it directly out of your ass but i could be wrong……go phils

7. Phil Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am

   R.Mac the Phillies did say they wanted Blake. You should do some research. As for the Phillies being a “bad” team, I have come to realize they’re actually a great team playing like they’re bad. If this offense played as good as last years offense this team would probably have 75-80 wins right now.

8. Geoff Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 9:08 am

   this is all pretty obvious man, if you cant keep up then its your problem. its baseball after all

9. Phil Says:
   August 13th, 2008 at 9:18 am

   Does anyone know why Jason Donald and Lou Marson didn’t start today? Maybe the Phillies flew them home because they are sick of their anemic offense.

10. Paul Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    This offense is looking so flawed right now. From the top of the order to bottom.

11. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    im ready to clear out spots 6-8 in the order, clear out rollins and bring in all new people next year for those slots.

12. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Phil, I think both of them weren’t sure things to make the team.. so whoever the sure guys are probably get the starts… I have no idea who those other guys might be. But I remember them saying that Donald was “probably” going to make the Olympic team and that Marson was a possibility… both of them making it is a good thing, but I don’t think we’ll see them carrying this team or anything

13. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:31 am

    They were really hyping Jason Donald up on MLB.com. He’s even the main picture on the us baseball website.

14. Dennis Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Who would’ve thought we would be sitting here worrying about the Phils offense in mid-August. This is going to be such a disapointing season if we don’t win the divsion, we should be at least 10 games up right now!

15. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Geoff… quit crying.. the Dodgers gave up two top-prospects to get Blake.. one of which was ranked as high as 3rd in their organization “he throws 95mph with a plus breaking ball” behind Kershaw and Andy LaRoche going into this season..

    The other guy Carlos Santana plays a mean guitar.. and was one of the top-hitting prospects they had.. but at Catcher he was blocked by Martin.

    IF the Phillies would have traded their top bullpen candidate and top cathcing prospect you would have cried about that too!

16. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    you know im going to be watching extra close. because if he shows anything, im putting jimmy rollins on the block as soon as the season ends and telling him: “guess what pal? youre going back to california” and ship him off to LA to the angels or dodgers, maybe even the padres. beane wont take him if you tried to give him away.

17. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    you call it crying, i call it explaning why theyre sucking right now. all of these things are factors in this series of offensive and now, pitching meltdowns.

    including and especially the trainers. what have i been telling you all year about the trainers? now, theyre dropping like flies out there. rollins first, then werth, then nothing for a while, then victorino lidge gordon feliz. nice one trainers, really nice.

18. Buffalophilsfan Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    I really think this team needs to make a deal for another bat now! I wanted Manny at the deadline and he is only hitting around .500 and put new life into the Dodgers. Don’t you think he would look pretty good right now hitting between Chase and Ryan.

    How about Sheffield. The guy is unhappy in Detroit, does not want to only DH and would be the other right handed bat in the middle of the order the Phills need. The rotation looks great right now, we need to get the offense in gear. Somebody wake up in that front office and prove you are trying to win this thing instead of “Standing Pat!”

19. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    im not totally convinced that don watches any of the games. he might catch a few here and there but thats about it

20. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    I think the sad thing about the phillies offense is that its going to hurt their chances of signing Cole Hamels to a long-term deal…

    I think that “wins” is one of the factors used to determine Salary Arbitration for pitchers.. since Cole won’t want to sign long-term here, and his win total won’t be that high thanks to no run support (ranked 51 of 60 national league pitchers in Run Support)… its going to cost him money, and he’s going to be out like a boner in sweatpants when it comes time to be a Free Agent.

21. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    oh hes not sticking around unless they cough up some serious dough. he hates half the people on the team including the front office, and i dont blame him.

22. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Rollins twisting his ankle was 100% the Trainers fault.. you are correct there!

    Are you not convinced that I watch ANY of the games because I said to everyone yesterday that I didn’t watch Monday nights game?? You should be a detective…

    Blake would look awesome on our team.. especially with Feliz out.. but when the other teams want something that your team doesn’t have or doesn’t want to give up.. (like Pitching and Catching prospects) you need to realize that its different than “sleeping”

23. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Shane Victorino left tonight’s game against the Los Angeles Dodgers after his at-bat in the top of the seventh inning because of lower back stiffness.

    “I felt it in BP today,” he said.

    Victorino said he doesn’t think it’s serious, and hopes it won’t prevent him from playing in tomorrow night’s game.

    “I hope not,” he said. “But we’ll see. I think it happened yesterday. I don’t know when.”

    that was from the Inquirer… hopefully he just needs a day or two

24. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    theres no evidence that they actually tried to get him. they just said they wanted to get him. those two things are not the same.

25. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    you know how much easier it is to look back on trade’s that you should have made… Blake would be good.. I’d really like him on this team.. but what is the point in saying EVERY SINGLE DAY that whatever trades they didn’t make was because “they were asleep at the wheel” etc… they inquired about EVERY player out there including Ramirez, Bay, Sabathia, etc..

    Blanton has looked really good the last two times out, but nobody wants to talk about that.. because its more fun to complain about the fish that got away

26. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    the way the trainers/manager handle these things is what im referring to.

27. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    What specifically would YOU like to see the trainers do differently… what the hell are you even talking about???

    You regularly try to pick out the most ridiculous things, and then try to find some reasoning about how the Phillies are the worst at it..and how everything about the Phillies sucks…

    We’ve been of the healthiest teams all year..

28. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    blanton has been a good acquisition. casey blake wouldve been nice but im not sure feliz got hurt until after the deadline, though he was in such a slump that it shouldve been obvious he was hurt, the trainers shouldbve noticed and gone to charlie with it earlier. maybe theyve have gotten him after all…

    jason bay would look awefully nice out there in right field right about now. jimmy rollins would look awfully nice in a pirates uniform or a dodgers uniform. but the pirates dont want him because pedro alvarez is oging to be better than him.

29. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    also, donald and marson didnt start because theyre playing a doubleheader today

30. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    but youre not accounting for secret injuries and secret trades and the weather machines and pat gillick actually being in florida at the beach instead of making calls on deadline day.

31. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Geoff, what time is the other game? I wanna watch.

32. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    In his defense.. Gillick probably got a great deal on a Southwest Airlines one-way flight to Florida.. since they are a team sponsor

33. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    wait nevermind. they changed the listing. a few days ago they had us playing twice today. they mustve realized the error and fixed it.

    therye playing the dtuch tomorrow at 1030 am. they lost today 8-7 to south korea.

    brandon knight, the starter, went 4 innings and gave up 6 runs. knight is 33 and was released by the pirates 2 years ago because he wasnt good enough to make their major league team. matt laporta did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING today. nice trade, cleveland…korea pieced it together with the bullpen. i didnt know they use the DH in international play…

    US hititng led by matt brown, LA angels prospect, driving in 3 runs…

34. PhillyGirlinMichigan Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Ughh! I quit watching the game in the top of the 8th w/Hamels batting. Hated to see the results this morning; however, I’m not surprised. Romero and Durbin have been pitching in a lot of tight innings lately and can’t hold up forever. Hopefully, they’ll shake it off quickly. Looks like we visited L.A. at the wrong time of the season.

    Too bad Durbin wasn’t up to his Manny-dominating ways last night. Last year in his only start against Boston, he fanned him 3x straight times. From what I remember though, the Tigers BP then came in and lost the game for him. Crap happens.

35. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    are we taht hurting for starting pitching that we send trash out there? what the hell? some journeyman who wasnt good enough for the pirates 2 years ago? i guess they dont want to send good pitching prospects over there…

36. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    That sucks Marson and Donald didn’t start.

37. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    do they still have valujet? gillick probably would enjoy paying for something, but being cheap over even getting something for free. as an example, when the cubs gave away rich harden, he wouldnt even accept. but hell go out and give geoff jenkins 5mm per year.

    hes a valujet guy.

38. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    I think a lot of the guys labled as “top prospects” are probably a little young for this team.. Cameron Maybin’s and such.. talent-wise deserve to be over there, but he’s only 21.

    but that one college pitcher is like 19 or 20.. so im not too sure how they came up with this roster..

39. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    i think some teams, like in european soccer, choose to protect their prospects and prevcent them from playing in the olympics. if they have a star player or star prospect, in this case, theyll ask him to decline because they dont want him to get hurt.

    i could see them doing that with pitching because its pitching. cant understand why they woulnt want maybins abilities over there though.

40. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    but Geoff.. our trainers are the worst ever, so there is no way they could keep Harden healthy, right??

41. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:30 am

    He has a good point Geoff.

42. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Dubee and the trainers would end Harden’s career after 3 starts.

43. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Despite what everyone thinks.. I really don’t like trying to pick arguements with Geoff on here..

    But I hate even more that people find the need to continually make up new ways to bash the players, manager, coaches, GM, trainers, owners, etc..

    The owners should spend more money, but it is a business, and they are in it to make money… EVERY team opperates to make money. Some are better at winning while they do it than others.. The GM has helped put together a pretty good team this year, but the players aren’t performing as expected.. BUT we’re still in 1st place and show signs of being a very good team.. its a long ride people, hang on and enjoy it!!

44. Doug Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Amen to Don M. for his “because its more fun to complain about the fish that got away.” I’m all for the management making more trades and shelling out some more money on free agents, but we have to face the facts that some trades aren’t worth making.

    Also, Jimmy Rollins doesn’t need to be traded. He’s not having the best year, and someone needs to light a fire under him at this point, but the only way I’d want to see him traded away is if we get an absolute ace of a pitcher for him. Even sub-par for Jimmy is above par in comparison to other shortstops in the league.

45. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    yeah youre right. they would end his career in 3 starts. dubee would change his mechanics. he would blow his elbow out th next start, the trainers would say taht nothing is wrong at all and send him out two more times just to make sure he totally ruins his elbow.

46. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    jimmy rollins is trash. hes a for who, for what guy.

47. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:39 am

    jimmy isnt worth an “ace” pitcher. i hate to be the one to break that to you.

48. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    im not even concerned about trades that didnt happen. im alreayd gearing up for trades that need to happen now to save the season and in the offseason to improve the team.

    what if shane is really hurt? theyre screwed.

49. Dave Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Does this season even matter? I mean, to me, it looks like whatever NL East team makes the playoffs is toast in the 1st round. The Cubs, Brewers, and Dodgers are clearly the class of the league. Whatever East teams winds up winning the division, I can’t see them making it any farther than the NLDS.

50. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    im not psyched about sheffield, but do you think we could get away with him in right field in a platoon? can he move at all? in terms of a hitter, thats a salty veteran contact hitter that would be nice to have around for a run.

51. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Geoff is not a downer at all …

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8253259004004602203

52. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    cant view it at work…blocks streamind media

53. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    google “Debbie Downer” from Saturday Night Live… its hilarious

54. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    oh ok.

55. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Let’s get it straight, nobody is coming to Philadelphia. The team in the dugout is the team we have for 2008. September callups should be interesting. I’m sure we’ll see Happ back up with the big club, and I think possibly Marson as well. It’ll be interesting who else gets the call.

    Rollins doesn’t need to get traded either. The guy is a very good SS. It seems everyone has forgotten that he won the MVP award LAST FRIGGIN YEAR.

56. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    I would like to see Sheffield here.. but there are two chances of him falling through the AL teams, and then past every team worse than us in the NL.. those two chances are SLIM, and NONE

57. Jimmy Waters Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Hey Geoff stop talking about me.

58. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    right, and hes done. he wont be half as good as he was in 07 EVER again. hell be a decent, but inconsistent player for the rest of his career even if he has a few brilliant games here and there. why wait for that? why not get value for him now?

59. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Geoff… seriously… THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE JIMMY ROLLINS anytime soon.. why do you keep talking about it?

    That is the same thinking as it would be to say that Lidge’s 2nd half of the season won’t be as good as his first half, so why not trade him while his value is high….

60. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    no it isnt. its not the same thing at all. brad lidge hasnt changed his attitude imn a bad way, jimmy has. hes a total me first, lazy, douche now. short arming balls, dogging it on fly balls, swinging at the first pitch. there were also 4 or 5 other incidents in the locker room with him and charlie and other players this year that didnt even get mentioned. several beat writers confirmed it and that htey didnt want to get into them anymore.

61. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    its going to com eto a head soon and hell be out of here in the off season.

62. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:13 am

    hes getting called out whenever he needs to be.

63. Doug Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Seriously, Geoff, they make narcotics to mellow out the highs and lows of bipolarity. I bet you loved Rollins last year when he was a savior. This year, he’s trash.

    I bet if Hamels starts next year with 2 or 3 bad starts, you’ll call for his demotion to A-ball because he’s trash and the Phils would be lucky to get Charlie Hough for him in a trade.

    I bet waves in the ocean are a traumatic experience for you. …waves rising and falling and all. People have good years and bad. You don’t need a guillotine for every star who has a tough year.

64. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    I will be stunned if that happens. Personally, let’s see what happens next year with him before casting him off to become another teams’ gem.

65. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:20 am

    i actually didnt think rollins deserved the mvp award last year, but was happy to see him win it beause hes one of our players. actually, no, hamels is a 2 whos not reayd to be a 1 yet, but hell eventually become an ace. hes almost there, jsut needs a few more tweaks.

    actually doug, i surf, therefore, i am on top of those waves, harnessing their power to propel me to where i want to go. hardly traumatic at all. i dont mind them having a tough year. i was always in favor of keeping burrell here and its paid off this year. pat burrell is a professional and plays with class, jimmy is not. its really that simple. burrell or howards slumps are easier to tolerate because they arent assholes like jimmy rollins is.

66. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    in 3 years hell be a “bad contract” and in 5 years hell be done. he wont ever be as good as he once was. hes done. done being a great player worth keeping here, that is. he might still provide some flashes, but make no mistakes, youve seem the last of the greatness of jimmy rollins.

67. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    anyone know what rollins contract is? I’m having trouble finding it. I thought he was only signed until 2010

68. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    nevermind I got it: signed through 2010 with club option for 2011

69. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    perfect. for two-3 years of what teams think is still a good player, you can swindle some good stuff out of some desperate shortstop-deprived team. the white sox, mabye dodgers, cardinals maybe. d-backs can move drew to 2nd to replace hudson. there are some options out there.

70. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    white sox will lose orlando cabrera dodgers will lose nomar and furcal.

71. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    Do the Major League teams use the same FantasyBaseball-and Video Game tactics that Geoff uses?? just wondering…

72. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Rollins had a career year last year, an awesome one at that. Hanley’s year last year was still much better than Rollins year was last year. List of players who had a better year than Jimmy Rollins last year.

    Miggy
    Hanley
    Wright
    Holliday
    Fielder

    That’s just off the top of my head. He didn’t win the mvp because of his bat he won it because of his mouth.

73. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    youll see…just be patient and let it play itself out. brett myers is already gone, and jimmy is basically pretty damn close to being gone too. he knows hes being moved to california somewhere, and myers knows hes going to be someone else’s closer next year.

74. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    well stated phil

75. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Phil true on your point, I’ll say also that Jimmy won because everyone and their mother missed a considerable amount of time on the Phillies last year, (Geoff, goes to your point about trainers and such) yet Jimmy singlehandedly carried this team on his back to a division title. Also:

    Miggy didn’t win because he plays for Florida and they were a bad team. (fair, no, but that’s the way it works)
    Hanley didn’t win for the same reason.
    Wright didn’t win because despite his best efforts, the Mets just plain fell apart and he couldn’t keep the ship floating like Rollins did.
    Fielder I don’t think was ever a real solid contender honestly, but that’s just my opinion.
    Holliday didn’t win because his road/home splits weren’t impressive, while Rollins splits were very even. (off the top of my head I believe they were slightly better on the road actually, but I’m not certain). Also rollins played SS, a position much more physically demanding than LF, and didn’t miss a single game.

    His mouth didn’t hurt either though, that can’t be ignored.

76. Doug Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Geoff, you cite as a main reason for dumping Rollins, “he wont ever be as good as he once was”.

    Yet, you just noted above that it wouldn’t be bad to have Sheffield around here down the stretch. Do you think Sheffield is capable of his pre-2003 numbers or are you openly admitting to flip-flopping?

77. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    S guys what do you think of McNabb and Jaws teaming up to do some burger king ad’s on the TV? Ron should come out and be the backup this year for McNabb they are good friends and I heard that Jaws hates ESPN … what do you guys think?

78. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    We need a big time wideout and we would be super great … what about TO??? I think we should get him????

79. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    no not at all. if detroit eats sheffields contract why not take him for a few months?

    im just sayin, simply, i have a gut feeling, a bad one, that hes not going to be taht good again. thats all. you guys are jumping all over that like its some political debate. just a hunch, tahts all. when he plays liek ass im calling him out for it everytime and when he plays well he will be noted

80. river327 Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I’m still waiting for Taguchi’s throw to get to the plate…

81. bull Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    charlie needs to get rid of the photo copied lineup card and shake things up to get some guys out of a slump…
    werth
    utley
    Burrell
    Howard
    Rollins
    Bruntlett/Coste
    Jenkins
    Pitcher
    Ruiz

    until we find out what is up with the victorino

82. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    yeah taht swas another bad move. pats arm might gunned him down, but they pulled him for taguchi WHICH MAKES NO SENSE. thats ANOTHER game thats cost us.

83. Bruce Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Phil~ What makes a player an MVP will always stir debates. Personally
    I choose a player who is most responsible for helping his team win the championship (division). I also include the intangible(s) such as leadership. As far as statistics that defines a MVP season, Rollins joined Curtis Granderson (Tigers) last season as the only 3rd and 4th players in history to have twenty or more doubles, triples, home runs and stolen bases. If you’re curious, the other two are Wildfire Shulte of 1911
    Cubs and Willie Mays of 1957 SF Giants.

    Remember, Rollins played gold glove defense at the toughest infield position, and provided tons of speed (38 SB) and power (30 HR) out of the leadoff spot, and was the Phillies’ catalyst during their September surge. BTW, Phil, how many on your list won a gold glove?

84. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Its cool when you get back from lunch and someone posts your name, and then a bunch of hilarious comments about the Eagles..

85. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    MA Phanatic: Miggy didn’t win because he plays for Florida and they were a bad team. (fair, no, but that’s the way it works)
    Hanley didn’t win for the same reason.
    Wright didn’t win because despite his best efforts, the Mets just plain fell apart and he couldn’t keep the ship floating like Rollins did.

    Why did Howard win it in 06? Pujols had better numbers, but it’s not worth debating.

    “I choose a player who is most responsible for helping his team win the championship (division). I also include the intangible(s) such as leadership. As far as statistics that defines a MVP season, ”

    I agree, but read above in my response to MA Phanatic.

    “emember, Rollins played gold glove defense at the toughest infield position, and provided tons of speed (38 SB) and power (30 HR) out of the leadoff spot, and was the Phillies’ catalyst during their September surge. BTW, Phil, how many on your list won a gold glove?”

    Rollins didn’t deserve the gold glove. Wright won a gold glove.

    I could continue this debate for a long time.

86. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Wright didn’t deserve a gold glove though..

    I think that Holliday was clearly the best player in the NL last year.. it wasn’t that close.. but Rollins all-around game and the fact that he “backed up his mouth” won it for him..

87. J-Man Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    It’s sad when your pitcher results for 1 of your 3 runs when you have a offense like this…I don’t know what it’s gonna take to get this team back to it’s high powered offense but changes do need to be made.

88. Geoff Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    if i see that same stale lineup trotted out again…

89. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Actually, Wright had the best year last year and he was in the top 2 for the gold glove. Only player better was Feliz.

90. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Phil he was 9th in fielding percentage among NL 3rd basemen… 5th in errors… 2nd in total chances..

    And the stuff they use to determine how many balls you get to in your “zone” of the field, etc.. Zone Rating.. he was 8th.

    He won it because he’s a pretty good 3rdbaseman with a hell of a bat.

    Rollins probably could have lost the Gold Glove to Tulowitzki, and lost the MVP to Holliday.. but the baseball writers gave him both, which shows you that some offense weighed on the SS gold glove vote too.

91. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Or do the baseball writer only vote MVP not gold glove too?

92. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Don’t get me wrong.. I think Wright is a GREAT player.. I actually like the fact that we get to see him and Chipper Jones so often.. but he won the award because people think of him as a GREAT player.. who happens to play 3rd base.. and makes highlight plays a lot… sometimes that is enough to get it done in the voting

93. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    David Wright might not have the best fielding percentage and all of that stuff, but he’s made some plays that I don’t even think Mike Schmidt would have made.

94. MA Phanatic Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Like I said, I think the main difference in Holliday and Rollins was that Holliday’s road/home splits were not exactly flattering…the same case couldn’t be made for Rollins.

    and Wright is a stud, but how can you give an MVP award to a player on a team that blows a 7 gm lead with 17 to play?

    and Phil, I don’t know why Howard won it over Pujols in ‘06. My best explanation is that voters are human, Pujols missed a large chunk of time, (it also cost Chase Utley last year’s MVP) and Howard had more HRs and RBIs, most likely only because Pujols missed time, but that needs to factor into voting.

95. Dennis Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    This just in! So Taguchi’s throw just reached homeplate! Only about 13 hours too late! Great defensive replacement Charlie!

96. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    He really didn’t miss that much time. 19 games isn’t that much time.

97. Don M Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Right… Wright makes some great plays.. but he isn’t the best fielding 3rdbaseman.. but because of his stick, you would take over probably every other 3b in the NL for your team..

    as for the Pujols vs. Howard in 2006.

    Howard had more HR and RBI.. still hit for .313 avg.. and since the Cardinals only went 83-79 that year, maybe they felt Howard was just “more valuable” to his team than Pujols was.

    So Taguchi hit 2 Home Runs that year, so that definitely takes away from Albert the Great’s value

98. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Go look at Pujols’ slugging %, on base %, k’s, etc. and get back to me. RBI is a team stat btw.

99. Phil Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Oh wait, Pujols played gold glove defense that year. Should throw that in there.

100. Don M Says:
     August 13th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

     Pujols is one of the best players in baseball… baseball history actually..

     Ryan Howard wants to be Albert Pujols… which is why I thought it was a joke that Howard wanted the same contract as Pujols two years ago..

     I’m not defending Howard over Pujols for MVP, but im saying that the HR and RBI with still a high average is MAYBE why the writers gave him the award..???

101. MA Phanatic Says:
     August 13th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

     yeah Phil i hope you’ve been reading my posts. I’m just trying to answer your question as to why Howard got the award over Pujols. I’m not defending it. He was certainly deserving of the award, but so was Pujols. Had he not missed any time, I think he clearly would have won the award.

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